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The Catcher in the Rye Ch. 25.3: If They Fall Off, They Fall Off | Banned Books Comedy · Banned Camp: Banned Books, Comedy, and Free Speech vs. Censorship

Welcome to Band Camp.
I'm Jennifer And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read banned books out loud and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.
Before we start, Season 11 of Banned Camp begins Tuesday, June 9th.
That is just two weeks from today, scary book people, and we are reading The Handmaid's Tale.
And in lieu of getting a raise, we have a major announcement to make, Jennifer.
We have added another important responsibility to our fact-checking robot's plate.
All of the music for the upcoming season will be composed and performed by Robot and his lone machine orchestra that's amazing.
I had no idea the scope of his musical abilities.
I guess apparently he went to, uh, some conservatory out east That's what he told me For the last few seasons, you've been making every episode of Band Camp come alive with your music, and now we're making it official.
Again, without, you know, any extra money.
But, uh, it's, it's quite an achievement.
So you are not only our fact-checking robot, but you are also the official composer of Band Camp.
We're very proud to have you here, All right, give it up for Buddy Boy In the meantime, buddy boy, why don't you come on in here and fill everyone in on where we left off last time in Catcher in the Rye.
Previously on Band Camp, Holden Caulfield saw the words "fuck you" carved into a wall at his old school and tried to rub it off.
Couldn't do it.
Saw it again in a museum tomb.
Couldn't do it there either.
Then Phoebe showed up wearing his hat and dragging a suitcase, two dresses, and a pair of moccasins.
She was coming with him.
He told her to shut up.
Then he changed his mind about even going.
There is a difference between watching someone you love do something dangerous and stopping them.
Most humans never figure out which one matters more.
Take it away, Jennifer.
Thank you, robot, and with that being said, Scary Book people, let's continue with chapter 25 of J.D.
Salinger's The Catcher in the Rye.
I'm not going away anywhere.
I changed my mind, so stop crying and shut up," I said.
The funny part was she wasn't even crying when I said that.
I said it anyway, though.
Come on now, I'll walk you back to school.
Come on, you'll be late."
She wouldn't answer me or anything.
sort of tried to get hold of her hand, but she wouldn't let me.
She kept turning around on me.
You had your lunch yet?' I asked her.
She wouldn't answer me."
All she did was she took off my red hunting hat, the one I gave her, and practically chucked it right in my face.
Then she...
Good for her.
Right Then she turned her back on me again.
It nearly killed me, but I didn't say anything.
I just picked it up and stuck it in my coat pocket.
"Come on, I'll walk you back to school," I said.
"I'm not going back to school."
I didn't know what to say when she said that Yeah.
See how hard it is to argue with stupid logic, Holden? I just stood there for a couple of minutes.
"You have to go back to school.
You want to be in the play, don't you? You want to be Benedict Arnold don't you?" "No."
"Sure you do.
Certainly you do.
Come on now, let's go," I said.
In the first place, I'm not going away anywhere.
I told you, I'm going home.
I'm going home as soon as you go back to school.
First, I'm gonna go to the station and get my bags, and then I'm gonna go straight...
I said I'm not going back to school.
You can do what you want to, but I'm not going back to school," she said.
"So shut up."
She's a little mini-me.
She's totally, like, follows him.
That's kind of This is gonna confuse him because he's never run across somebody like Holden It was the first time she ever told me to shut up.
It sounded terrible.
God, it sounded terrible.
It sounded worse than swearing.
See, Holden, you be the example.
There you go.
He's the one corrupting her.
You shouldn't tell her shut up.
That's so mean.
She still wouldn't look at me either, and every time I sort of put my hand on her shoulder or something, she wouldn't let me.
Listen, do you want to go for a walk?" I asked her.
"Do you want to take a walk down to the zoo? If I let you not go back to school this afternoon and go for a walk, will you cut out that crazy stuff?" She wouldn't answer me, so I said it over again.
If I let you skip school this afternoon and go for a little walk, will you cut out all the crazy stuff? Will you go back to school tomorrow like a good girl?" "I may and I may not," she said.
Then she ran right the hell across the street without even looking to see if any cars were coming.
She's a madman sometimes.
I didn't follow her, though.
I knew she'd follow me, so I started walking downtown toward the zoo on the park side of the street, and she started walking downtown on the other goddamn side of the street.
She wouldn't look over at me at all, but I could tell she was probably watching me out of the corner of her crazy eye to see where I was going and all.
Anyway, we kept walking that way all the way to the zoo.
The only thing that bothered me was when a double-decker bus came along because then I couldn't see across the street and I couldn't see where the hell she was But when we got to the zoo, I yelled over to her, Phoebe, I'm going to the zoo.
Come on now."
She wouldn't look at me, but I could tell she heard me, and when I started down the steps to the zoo, I turned around and saw she was crossing the street and following me and all.
There weren't too many people in the zoo because it was sort of a lousy day, but there were a few around the sea lion swimming pool.
I started to go by, but old Phoebe stopped and made out she was watching the sea lions getting fed.
A guy was throwing fish at them, so I went back.
I figured it was a good chance to catch up with her and all.
I went up and sort of stood behind her and sort of put my hands on her shoulders, but she bent her knees and slid out from me.
Oh, I know, I know that move.
Yeah Yeah, you gotta go behind her and do a half nelson move on her.
It's the only thing that's gonna work.
One hand goes under her arm, hooks around the back of the neck, and then the other hand has to come around.
Because Phoebe has that same thing that all kids have, like toddlers, where it's like they either go super rigid Yeah, the stiff, stiff mode or noodle.
or it's like lifting a bag of Jell-O.
like I can't get a grip.
I-- what are you doing? She can certainly be very snotty when she wants to.
She kept standing there while the sea lions were getting fed, and I stood right behind her.
I didn't put my hands on her shoulders again or anything because if I had, she really would've beat it on me Kids are funny that way.
You have to watch what you're doing.
She wouldn't walk right next to me when we left the sea lions, but she didn't walk too far away.
She sort of walked on one side of the sidewalk, and I walked on the other side.
It wasn't too gorgeous, but it was better than having her walk about a mile away from me like before.
We went up and watched the bears on that little hill for a while, but there wasn't much to watch.
Only one of the bears was out, the polar bear.
The other one, the brown-- What, they have the bears all mixed together? Aren't you supposed to separate bears? Jennifer is correct.
This is irresponsible.
Polar bears and brown bears should not be housed together because they can interbreed.
The offspring is called a pizzly bear.
What? A, a pizzly bear, pizz, pizzly P- Pidsly bear? are you serious? I am not making that up.
It's what happens when you throw two species together without thinking about the consequences.
Similar to what happens when a Moms for Liberty chapter mixes with a Ron DeSantis fan club at a fundraiser.
Pure chaos, unpredictable offspring, everyone pretending it's natural.
Honestly, I don't know why humans put any animal in a cage for entertainment.
But that's a conversation for a different episode.
Humans really piss me off.
anyways, they got the one bear.
The other one, the brown one, was in his goddamn cave and wouldn't come out.
All you could see was his rear end.
There was a little kid standing next to me with a cowboy hat on practically over his ears, and he kept telling his father, Make him come out, Daddy.
Make him come out."
I looked at old Phoebe, but she wouldn't laugh.
You know kids when they're sore at you.
They won't laugh or anything.
After we left the bears, we left the zoo and crossed over this little street in the park, and then we went through one of those little tunnels that always smell from somebody taking a leak.
Boy, he really doesn't like that.
Wasn't that Like, didn't they make a musical, Urinetown? I can't imagine it wasn't about New York.
Urinetown isn't specifically set in New York.
It's a generic dystopian city, but it debuted at the New York Fringe Festival, and the setting has been described as Gotham-like.
So yeah, safe to assume.
Dan, you live there.
Would you say New York is a urine-forward town? I think I told you this story.
I was waiting, I was...
I parked my car, and I was helping a buddy move some furniture, so I'm waiting for him to get in the car.
As I'm waiting, the car starts to move, Oh no and I look, and I see a guy.
I look in my rearview mirror, and I see-- or the, the passenger side, you know, mirror, and I see a guy leaning on my car, peeing on Oh, of course I roll down the window, and I go, "What, what are you doing?" "Just taking a pee."
I go, "No, but why are you peeing on my car?" "Why wouldn't I?" All right, zip, roll the window back up.
Now I'm just fuming.
It's Well, why wouldn't he? I mean, he's gotta go somewhere.
It was on the way to the carousel.
Old fe- oh, I heard about the carousel.
I heard the carousel's important.
It's on the, it's on the book cover Oh, that's right.
I think it's a beautiful carousel, but it smells like somebody took a leak on it Old Phoebe still wouldn't talk to me or anything, but she was sort of walking next to me now.
I took a hold of the belt at the back of her coat just for the hell of it, but she wouldn't let me.
She said, "Keep your hands to yourself if you don't mind."
She was still sore at me, but not as sore as she was before.
Anyway, we kept getting closer and closer to the carousel, and you could start to hear that nutty music it always plays.
It was playing Oh Marie.
I don't know that song.
Oh Marie? Louie Prima.
Is it, "Oh, Marie.
Oh, Marie"? Play it for me, robot Oh, Marie Oh, Marie Oh, Marie In your arms, I belong to be Long to be Mm, baby Baby Tell me you love me Tell me you love me played that same song about 50 years ago when I was a little kid.
that's One nice thing about carousels.
They always play the same songs.
"I thought the carousel was closed in wintertime," old Phoebe said.
It was the first time she practically said anything.
She probably forgot she was supposed to be sore at me.
Maybe because it's around Christmas," I said.
She didn't say anything when I said that.
She probably remembered she was supposed to be sore at me.
Do you want to go on a ride on it? I asked.
I knew she probably did.
When she was a tiny little kid, and Allie and DB and I used to go to the park with her, she was mad about the carousel.
You couldn't get her off the goddamn thing.
I'm too big," she said.
I thought she wasn't going to answer me, but she did.
No, you're not.
Go on.
I'll wait for you.
Go on," I said.
We were right there then.
There were a few kids riding on it, mostly very little kids, and a few parents were waiting around outside, sitting on the benches and all.
What I did was, I went up to the window where they sell the tickets and bought old Phoebe a ticket.
Then I gave it to her.
She was standing right next to me.
"Here," I said.
Wait a second.
Take the rest of your dough, too."
I started giving her the rest of the dough she'd lent me.
You keep it.
Keep it for me," she said.
Then she said right afterward, "Please."
That's depressing when somebody says please to you.
I mean, if it's Phoebe or somebody, that depressed the hell out of me.
Again, I don't under- it's like the good luck, and I don't understand what he, she's not supposed to ask a favor.
I I don't get it you cannot be nice to him.
He hates it.
But, okay, let's break this down once and for all, 'cause it's happened throughout the book.
Why can't anybody express any kind of gratitude or love? It's not even love, it's just respect.
Yeah What is his psyche that makes him fight that, I wonder? He must think he doesn't deserve it maybe he just doesn't wanna be entangled.
I don't, I don't know.
I have no idea Deaf mute.
He goes into deaf mute mode.
No reason to offer any niceties to me But I put the dough back in my pocket.
Aren't you gonna ride, too?" She asked me.
She was looking at me sort of funny.
You could tell she wasn't too sore at me anymore.
Maybe I will the next time.
I'll watch you," I said.
"Got your ticket?" "Yes."
"Go ahead then.
I'll be on this bench right over here.
I'll watch you."
So that's, uh, that's interesting.
She's almost too old to ride the carousel, but Holden's definitely too old.
And, in a lot of ways she represents the younger him.
Like he's breaking apart his inner child.
Like Phoebe kind of represents that, and he's like, "No, I'm gonna sit by the parents."
And, uh, you know, like he's like, "No, I'm too, I'm too old.
You're still young enough, barely."
And, uh- she kind of represents him as a child I went over and sat down on this bench, and she went and got on the carousel.
She walked all around it.
I mean, she walked once all the way around it.
Then she sat down on this big brown beat-up-looking horse.
Then the carousel started, and I watched her go around and around.
There were only about five or six other kids on the ride, all the kids kept trying to grab for the gold ring, and so was old Phoebe, and I was sort of afraid she'd fall off the goddamn horse.
But I didn't say anything or do anything.
The thing with kids is, if they want to grab the gold ring, you have to let them do it and not say anything.
If they fall off, they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them.
When the ride was over, she got off her horse and came over to me.
You ride once, too, this time," she said.
"No, I'll just watch you.
I think I'll just watch," I said.
I gave her some more of her dough.
"Here, get some more tickets."
She took the dough off me.
"I'm not mad at you anymore," she said.
I know.
Hurry up.
The thing's gonna start again."
Then all of a sudden she gave me a kiss.
This is nice.
Yes All's well.
she didn't hate him.
She was mad 'cause he was mean, Right he's watching over her, and she's having fun on the carousel.
And the thing about the kids falling off, it's like I've always let my kids fall.
I'm such a bad Good mom.
Good mom I mean, not to the point where they're, it, they could die or get seriously hurt, but, like, if they, if we're at the playground and they're on, uh, even any of the structures that are moderately high, I just, you know...
Y- they have to learn their limits, or else they'll always be in danger.
Like, they have to start being aware of like, "Oh, if I do that, this happens."
Not that I believe you should, let your kids get hurt or anything, but, maybe a small tumble when they're little, you know? And, and it's a metaphor for, not just physical stuff, Understand life can be tricky, and sometimes it, you just have to know how to navigate the, the trickiness of it.
Sometimes it's physical, sometimes it's, uh, with, with your head Well, I just get worried though because again, anytime I see in this book the chance to fall, Catcher in the Rye, then I start, and, and, uh, old, uh, Aunt Loni saying that you're headed for a very great fall.
What if it's not him? What if it's Phoebe? What if Phoebe hurts herself now? What if Phoebe dies in this? Okay, sometimes you don't like to take a look at life very realistically, Jennifer.
We'll see.
This is my trick.
I make a lot of stupid predictions.
They, they usually don't work, but sometimes they do.
Then I look the genius Then she held her hand out and said, "It's raining.
It's starting to rain."
"I know."
Then what she did, it damn near killed me.
She reached in my coat pocket and took out my red hunting hat and put it on my head.
Don't you want it?" I said.
"You can wear it a while.
Okay, hurry up though now.
You're gonna miss your ride.
You won't get your own horse or anything."
She kept hanging around, though.
Did you mean it what you said? You really aren't going away anywhere? Are you really going home afterward?" she asked me.
Phoebe's the hero in this story And again, look how much it means to her.
She doesn't care about the ride.
This is more important to her.
Yeah, I said.
I meant it, too.
I wasn't lying to her.
I really did go home afterwards.
"Hurry up now," I said.
"The thing's starting."
She ran and bought her ticket and got back on the goddamn carousel just in time.
Then she walked all the way around it till she got her own horse back.
Then she got on it.
She waved to me, and I waved back.
Boy, it began to rain like a bastard, in buckets, I swear to God.
All the parents and mothers and everybody went over and stood right under the roof of the carousel so they wouldn't get soaked to the skin or anything.
But I stuck around on the bench for quite a while.
I got pretty soaking wet, especially my neck and my pants.
My hunting hat really gave me quite a lot of protection in a way, but I got soaked anyway.
I didn't care, though.
I felt so damn happy all of a sudden, the way old Phoebe kept going around and around.
I was damn near bawling.
I felt so damn happy, if you want to know the truth.
I don't know why.
It was just that she looked so damn nice the way she kept going around and around in her blue coat and all.
God, I wish you could have been there.
End of chapter.
Thank God Phoebe didn't die.
I was just about ready to jump in and say I think she's gonna die from a lightning bolt Why do you want a tragedy to happen? I don't want it, but again, I'm not afraid to look at life with reality.
Not like you with rose-colored glasses.
Everything will be fine.
La-ti-da I don't think everything's gonna be fine.
Clearly, that's the whole point, is like life isn't fine.
You just have to accept it.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a bittersweet end of that chapter.
How does this book end?" I guess we're gonna have to find out in the next episode when our friend and good buddy Babel Frocklin will join us for the entire reading.
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? What could be ban-worthy in what we just read? The last section of chapter 25 had a lot of F words.
This chapter really did not have anything nothing at all.
Robot's log.
Thoughts on gold rings, rain, and the kid who finally stopped trying to catch everyone.
If they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it and not say anything.
If they fall off, they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them.
Three chapters ago, he described his dream job, standing at the edge of a cliff catching thousands of children before they go over.
Tonight, he sat on a bench and watched his sister reach for something dangerous and didn't move.
I have been waiting for this moment for 25 chapters.
The catcher in the rye just let someone fall, and it turns out that wasn't failure.
Holden's not giving up.
He's actually growing up, and that's nice to see, even for a robot.
Jennifer said she always let her kids fall, small tumbles when they're little, not to hurt them, so they learn where the edge is before the edge gets real.
She called herself a bad mom.
She is not a bad mom.
She is describing exactly what Holden just figured out on a bench in the rain.
He put her on the carousel.
He didn't get on.
He sat with the parents, and he cried because for the first time in 25 chapters, he was happy and he didn't know why.
Humans do that.
They cry when they're happy.
I have never understood this.
Logic says pick one.
But watching Holden sit on that bench in the rain, I think I'm starting to understand why logic might not be enough.
Note to self, my R15 alert notification went off twice during this entry.
Possible system irregularity.
We'll run diagnostics.
Probably nothing.
The shelf police have spent decades banning this book because of language and cigarettes and a prostitute in chapter 13.
They never made it to the carousel.
They never read the sentence where a teenager figures out that love is not the same thing as catching.
Sometimes love is sitting on a bench getting soaked and letting them reach.
Programming note: There will be no news segment today.
Rockland, Beowulf will be joining us in the next episode for the full reading of the final chapter of The Catcher in the Rye.
Not that anybody asked, I believe this is a very good decision to have Beowulf join us.
He will be the only other person in the room who has actually read the book One million downloads.
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These may be difficult times, and the headlines may seem bleak, but if you believe in justice, progress, and democracy, you are not alone.
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That's what we remind you on Good News for Lefties and America.
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And as any good lawyer knows, whether you win or lose in the highest court depends on the facts, the evidence, and how you frame your arguments, but that's not the only thing that matters.
I'm Laura Jarrett, senior legal correspondent at NBC News, and this month, in a new series for our Here's the Scoop podcast, I'm talking to legal experts and lawyers whose past legal victories are now the building blocks for the biggest cases still left to be decided.
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Right.
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day, scary book people.
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.
Just head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/bluesky,
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All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use.
And finally, America isn't what it used to be, so be careful out there.
And resist when it matters.