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6: Healthy Conflict with God · Finding God at Work

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(Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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This is Finding God at Work.
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Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
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course.
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Check it out at findinggodatwork.org.
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Our current series is a mysterious business, bringing
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ministry and marketplace wisdom together.
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Have you ever been sitting in church and
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they're reading the scripture passages before the preacher
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preaches, or you maybe see what scripture passage
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the preacher is going to preach on in
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the bulletin and you just kind of feel
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like, oh no, not that passage.
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This has definitely happened for me.
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Sometimes when I'm visiting a friend's church, I'm
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especially like, I don't know how this pastor
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is going to handle this passage.
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It's like, what if it's Ephesians chapter five,
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you know, the section that starts in verse
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21, submit to one another out of reverence
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for Christ, wives, submit yourselves to your own
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husbands as you do to the Lord.
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Like, oh, it's like, how's this pastor going
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to handle this?
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That's one of those passages that makes me
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anxious if I'm like, huh, what's this pastor
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going to do?
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Or maybe for you, it's something else.
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Like maybe it's more so with your own
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experience walking with the Lord, there's certain passages
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that are hard for you.
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So in an earlier series, we talked about
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maybe you have a hard time having spiritual
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conversations with outsiders, with people who don't believe,
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and it makes you anxious.
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And so if the pastor is going to
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take a passage and really hammer home the
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idea that you can evangelize and you can
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proclaim the gospel to others, it might make
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you anxious.
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So maybe one of those passages that would
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be kind of a tripping point for you
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would be the great commission from Matthew 28.
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This is starting in verse 18, then Jesus
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came to them and said, all authority in
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heaven on earth has been given to me.
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Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
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baptizing them in the name of the father
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and the son and of the holy spirit
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and teaching them to obey everything I have
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commanded you.
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And surely I am with you always to
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the very end of the age.
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I've talked with people, both people who are
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believers and people who aren't about the difficulty
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of Jesus's teaching on forgiveness.
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And if they've really been hurt by someone,
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that can be a tripping point.
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So what is, what is this like?
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What is it like to be in a
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church service, to be dedicated to following Jesus,
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to want to learn under the teaching of
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godly teachers, and yet to have this kind
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of sticking point that you're not sure what
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to do with?
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Well, this might be a little surprising, but
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I actually want to take an idea from
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the business world and then apply it to
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this particular experience of being a follower of
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Jesus.
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So this is something that occurred to me
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back maybe 10 years ago when I was
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doing some leadership trainings, I was drawing on
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the work of a business thinker named Patrick
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Lencioni.
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Now, Lencioni is himself a Christian, a Catholic
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Christian.
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And so there is that, that like maybe
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his own life with God informed the ideas
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that he developed.
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But he did primarily develop them for business
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leaders to think about how they're leading their
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teams.
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And one of the models that he developed
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that I would sometimes train others on and
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use in my own life is called The
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Five Dysfunctions of a Team.
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That's a book that Lencioni published back in
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2002.
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And so what I want to do is
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go through The Five Dysfunctions of a Team,
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but not to talk about it in terms
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of business, although it's very helpful there, but
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to talk about it in terms of your
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own relationship with God.
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Can you take The Five Dysfunctions of a
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Team model and use it to help you
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connect with God in those sticking points of
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your journey with him?
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Maybe those passages that feel like they're a
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tripwire for you.
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Can you actually move to a place of
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deeper engagement with God through the power of
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the Holy Spirit?
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So a little bit of an unusual take,
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maybe, but I think it's an example, at
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least in my own life, of how something
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that was primarily in the business world then
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came around and really helped me in my
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walk with the Lord.
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So let me just lay out the model.
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And we'll include a link both to the
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book and Patrick Lencioni's consulting group called The
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Table Group.
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They have a wonderful PDF summary that's just
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like three pages long with the pyramid diagram.
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It's kind of the main visual for The
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Five Dysfunctions of a Team.
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So we'll include a link to that too.
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But if you visualize a pyramid that has
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five levels, on the bottom level is trust.
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Then the next level that's built on top
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of trust is conflict.
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And then on top of conflict, you've got
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commitment.
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And then on top of commitment, you've got
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accountability.
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And then the peak of the pyramid is
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results.
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So that's kind of the positive way of
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stating it, that what we want to see
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is trust on our teams, a willingness to
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be vulnerable with each other, leads to conflict.
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Now, that might be surprising, right?
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But the idea is that because we trust
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each other, we're willing to argue with each
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other.
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We're willing to be honest about when we
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disagree.
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And if we have different ideas about the
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way something should get done, we hash it
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out with each other.
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So there's conflict.
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Patrick Lencioni calls it ideological conflict, which to
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me makes me think about like ideologies of
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like social theories and things like that.
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But he really just means like different ideas.
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So idea conflict.
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Then that leads to commitment.
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You reach a decision, right, as a team,
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or if the leader needs to be the
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tiebreaker and just says, OK, here's where we're
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going to go.
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You're bought in on it.
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There's clarity about what the decision is.
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So you're committed.
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And then because you're all committed to the
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same decision, you're willing to hold one another
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accountable rather than just caving to the social
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discomfort of I don't want to talk to
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somebody about how they missed their deadline.
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You hold each other accountable.
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You get straight.
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You figure out, OK, why did this or
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did this not happen?
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Since we're all working towards the same goal.
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And then results, because you're all working together
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towards the same goal, you define success in
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terms of your collective results.
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It's not about one person's ego or status
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in terms of the things they were able
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to accomplish.
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It's did we as a team achieve what
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we decided to do together?
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If you're like me, you hear this model
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and you get inspired.
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You're like, this is great.
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This is how I want teamwork to work.
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But Patrick Lencioni is honest about how often
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it's not the case.
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So the title of the book is The
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Five Dysfunctions of a Team.
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So he's really honest about how often it's
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exactly the opposite.
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We don't experience this flow of trust to
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conflict, to commitment, to accountability, to results.
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Instead, we experience absence of trust, which leads
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to fear of conflict, which leads to lack
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of commitment, which leads to avoidance of accountability,
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which leads to inattention to results.
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It's a wonderful book.
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It's a wonderful model.
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It's super helpful.
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I particularly find it helpful to work through
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the model backwards.
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So starting at the top of the pyramid,
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what are the results that we were hoping
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for?
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And if those didn't happen, then can we
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trace back and figure out where did things
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fall apart?
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And often it does go back to there
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wasn't enough trust, right?
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People didn't feel safe to be vulnerable with
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each other on the team.
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That really is the foundation.
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But it can fall apart at different points,
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right?
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So you might realize, like, oh, there was
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never really clarity about what the decision was.
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Things were fuzzy at the commitment stage, right?
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And so if you work backwards, you can
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kind of identify, like, was it that we
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weren't holding each other accountable?
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Was it that things were fuzzy at the
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commitment stage?
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Was it that we never had a chance
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to, like, have a conflict about what we
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should do?
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Like, was this just announced from the top
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without any chance for feedback?
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So that could be an issue, right?
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So I find it a helpful diagnostic tool.
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Okay, but again, I don't primarily want to
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talk about how useful this is for teams,
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although that's how it was designed.
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But instead, look at your own relationship with
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God.
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So let's take a sticking point, maybe a
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sharing your faith.
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You feel like, I don't have an evangelistic
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personality.
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I don't like having conversations with strangers.
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Or I don't have very many non-Christian
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friends.
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Maybe you work in a Christian workplace.
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You're just at a loss for how to
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develop those things.
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But then you have the sense of, it
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sure seems like this is something that's in
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the Bible, right?
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Okay, so let's use the diagnostic tool.
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What are the results that you would be
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looking for?
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Now, here's a place to nuance it, right?
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Maybe a biblical word rather than results would
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be fruit, right?
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And we're not directly responsible for results in
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the kingdom of God, right?
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We're indirectly responsible.
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God asks us to do something, but then
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he's the one that really brings the fruit.
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This is taught throughout the Bible.
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Just to cite one passage about that that
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I think brings real clarity.
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This is 1 Corinthians 3.
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Paul's talking about people who have been sort
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of focusing more on him versus another leader
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named Apollos.
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And he says in verse 5, what after
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all is Apollos?
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And what is Paul?
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Only servants through whom you came to believe
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as the Lord has assigned to each his
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task.
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I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but
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God has been making it grow.
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So neither the one who plants nor the
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one who waters is anything, but only God
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who makes things grow.
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Okay, so that key word there is assigned
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as the Lord has assigned to each his
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or her task.
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And so we have this sense of we
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do want to do what God tells us
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to do, but then ultimately the results, the
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outcomes are in his hands.
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Okay, but that means that you can imagine
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what these outcomes might be.
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You can imagine maybe people coming to faith
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or people getting baptized or even just having
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meaningful conversations with outsiders or with people who
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are spiritually curious.
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You imagine this fruit that might be happening
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and it's not happening.
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So then, okay, work backwards down the chain,
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right?
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What's before that?
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Accountability.
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Was there a sense of being willing to
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do the specific things that God has assigned
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to you of being held accountable to those
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things?
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Do you have a sense of what those
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things are?
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So then working back, was there commitment?
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Are you committed to the idea of sharing
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your faith?
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Okay, work back.
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Was there conflict?
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And this I think is the level that's
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really helpful is we get stuck not willing
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to have a conflict with God, right?
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We want to have an argument with God
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and we don't know how to, or we
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don't realize that's where we're at.
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So maybe you want to have an argument
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with God.
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Maybe you want to say like, God, I
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don't think that I should have evangelistic conversations.
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That's awkward, right?
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And you teach it, but I don't agree
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with it.
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You got to have a conflict with God
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in order to get to a place of
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commitment where you understand, okay, what does this
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look like for me?
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What does this look like in my life?
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And the wonderful thing is you go to
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the Psalms in particular, and you see many
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examples of people who are willing to have
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a conflict with God.
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You see this in the prophets too.
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So I just want to go to one
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of these Psalms as an example.
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Psalm 44, the psalmist is kind of talking
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about the experience of God's people.
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And he says in verse nine, but now
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you have rejected and humbled us.
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You no longer go out with our armies.
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You made us retreat before the enemy and
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our adversaries have plundered us.
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You gave us up to be devoured like
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sheep and have scattered us among the nations.
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You sold your people for a pittance, gaining
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nothing from their sale.
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Then he goes down to verse 17.
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All this came upon us, though we had
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not forgotten you.
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We had not been false to your covenant.
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Our hearts had not turned back.
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Our feet had not strayed from your path,
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but you crushed us and made us a
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haunt for jackals.
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You covered us over with deep darkness.
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And skipping ahead to verse 23.
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Awake Lord, why do you sleep?
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Rouse yourself.
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Do not reject us forever.
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Why do you hide your face and forget
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our misery and oppression?
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Okay, this doesn't sound like somebody who's meekly
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saying, God, whatever's happening must be your will.
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No, this is someone who's saying, you're treating
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us unfairly, God.
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We haven't abandoned our covenant and we're facing
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difficulty and suffering and defeat every day.
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What gives?
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These words were inspired by the Holy Spirit.
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And so for us, when you reach one
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of those sticking points, one of those trip
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wires, right?
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Is there enough trust in your relationship with
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God?
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That you are willing to have the conflict
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with God?
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Can you trust that God's got your back?
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That God can take it?
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That God's big enough to have the argument
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with you?
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And that you can engage that conflict with
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God and say, God, this is how I
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feel.
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I don't feel like I can have these
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conversations.
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Or maybe this feels like a strange moral
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duty or an obligation that's just foreign to
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me.
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Talk with God, wrestle with it.
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Go to the scripture passages, wrestle with the
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scripture passages.
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Maybe there is maybe a difference in the
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teaching, right?
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We've talked about this, how the Bible actually
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almost never says, thou shalt evangelize, so to
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speak.
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It almost never says you need to share
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the good news.
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Instead, it says to be ready.
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It emphasizes being responsive to other people.
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But it implies that you'll have opportunities to
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be responsive to other people, right?
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And so there's a posture thing there.
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But if you're never having these conversations, I
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would ask, is that because you haven't reached
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that point of commitment?
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That point of accountability, that point of clarity
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with God.
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And again, this is just one example.
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We can ask the same thing about forgiveness.
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If you've got somebody and you know Jesus
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is teaching us to forgive, but you just
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can't forgive them.
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Can you have that conflict with God?
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Can you say, they hurt me so bad,
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God, what am I supposed to do?
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How is it possible to forgive?
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And can you meet God in that place
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of conflict?
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Because God is big enough to handle it.
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And it's possible to do this in a
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reverent way.
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Psalm 44 is not an irreverent Psalm.
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You can wrestle with God.
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You can talk with God.
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You can tell God how you feel.
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And you can listen with a posture and
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a willingness to hear God's side of the
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story.
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And often what God does is he doesn't
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answer all our questions, but he meets us
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with what we need.
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So like, for example, with evangelism, he might
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need to calm our anxiety.
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He might meet us with that sense of
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peace in his presence that like, you're not
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responsible for the outcomes.
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You don't need to worry about what everybody
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else thinks or how they might respond.
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But you can just be a person of
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peace who, when someone is curious, is ready
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to share.
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Or with forgiveness, God meets us with his
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own forgiveness for us and Jesus Christ.
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And we find when we really get in
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touch with our own need for forgiveness, with
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our sin, and with the abundance of God's
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love for us, we find that we tap
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into this reservoir of forgiveness that then we
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can extend to other people.
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It's only when we get real with God
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that we have those conflicts that we can
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then move to the place of commitment, the
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place of, okay, I'm going to forgive.
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I'm going to be ready to give an
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answer for the hope that I have when
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it comes up in conversation.
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I'm going to fill in the blank.
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So I hope that's helpful for you.
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To me, it's just one example of, hey,
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reality is reality, right?
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If there's something that's discovered in the business
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world that deals with how reality really is,
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it isn't that surprising that it might help
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in another context as well.
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Even a context as important as our own
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connection with the living God.
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So take that for what it's worth.
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I hope that the five dysfunctions might be
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helpful to you, not just on your team,
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but in thinking through how do I work
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with God to get to a place of
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deep commitment to the things that we're doing
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together.
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Lord Jesus, thank you that you were patient
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with us, that you are willing to wrestle
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with us and to have even conflict with
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us, that you can show us how to
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do that in a reverent way, but an
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honest way.
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I pray for real freedom for anyone who's
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listening to this, who is in a stuck
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place with you, that you would give them
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that sense of trust, that capacity to lean
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into you so that you and them can
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talk this through and get to a place
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of deeper commitment, deeper alignment, doing every day
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in you and with you.
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Come what may.
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Jesus, do your work in us as we
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do our work with you.
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Thanks for listening.
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