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7 | Gail Spencer: The Trust They Used Against Her · Probation Behavior

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You're listening to probation behavior.
0:27
Welcome, everybody. Welcome back, especially you,
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Abigail, because you were in Pennsylvania for quite a while
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and now she's back. I am.
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What do you have to say for yourself?
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Sorry. This is why we gargle salt
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water. I know I forgot today.
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What do I have to say for myself?
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Yeah, being back home is nothing.
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There's nothing else that compares, You know, your home is
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where the heart is, so. Any original thoughts?
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Honestly, no I. Yeah, not today.
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That's OK. Wow.
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You come to us for content and this is what we give you.
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I don't know if for some reason today, as soon as you hit
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record, I just. Just went blank, you know, we're
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just in front of a huge audience, so makes sense.
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We've three dogs in this house. Yes.
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Also just wanted to say that I took a Polaroid of me and Ally's
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set up here. Oh.
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My God I look so cool. Yeah.
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We are what is my nose profile look amazing.
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Stunning. Oh my God, wait, I look so cool.
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OK, we'll post that on the insta.
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So everybody be looking out for that.
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Yeah, Ally looks amazing in it. Oh my God, I didn't say that.
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You said that. You've been gone for a while.
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Do you want to know everything that's happened to me since you
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left? Every single thing.
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OK, I moved out of my house, moved into my new place, had to
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do so much work to get the house ready for the buyer, like
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cleaning and all that stuff, selling stuff.
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Oh, my God. It was a nightmare.
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And then I just closed on the House.
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That sounds like I bought it. You know what I mean?
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As the seller, I closed on it this afternoon.
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So I no longer own the house. Thank God.
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Such a weight lifted off my shoulders.
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Yeah. And now I'm just moving in all
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that stuff. Like moving it as in like,
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unpacking and all of that. My second bedroom is literally
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to the ceiling with boxes. Yeah.
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What's your least favorite thing about moving?
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Oh, my least favorite thing probably.
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OK, so this time I hired like movers and I did this last time.
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Obviously I hired movers, people who do the whole entire thing
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that power to you. But no, I don't even work out.
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So this is like my workout for the year.
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And so I these movers like packed everything up.
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So in my head you would think like if they're packing my
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entire house up, I don't have to touch anything.
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But like there's so much stuff that like you need access to
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quickly and you, you don't have time to sort through boxes.
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So I ended up doing like 4 trips to and from my house to the
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apartment, from my house to the apartment, back and forth and
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back and forth. And it was just a pain in the
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ass because like there was just stuff that I was like, oh, I
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don't want them to pack it. Like I just want to bring it and
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have access to it quickly so. Yeah.
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I would say that is that it's like you, you can have the most
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white glove service for moving ever and you can still be
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saddled down with like all the moving issues.
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I feel like I'm like, is this like a a commercial for a moving
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company? No, literally they do it better.
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We yeah, no, it sounds like it. My my movers forgot a whole
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room. So Oh my God, it was a bathroom
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and it was luckily it was like almost empty but.
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They just said Nah, Nah, we're not doing it today.
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I honestly think they just missed it.
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Like I, I don't think I've ever had movers like perfectly do
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everything right. Like I always get a scratch or
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like something like that I feel like.
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You know that's why they say do it yourself.
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But no I'm kidding. Honestly I have never hired
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movers but the next time I move in my life IA 100% will.
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Yeah, I feel like. We've done it enough.
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Yes, there's some things in life that you get to a point that
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you're like, this is worth paying for 100%.
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And we get older and like have more more.
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Money, do we? Do we really?
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Yeah, some days on some pay stubs.
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Yeah. What else do I want to talk
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about? I watched I saw The Sheep
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Detectives in theaters. Wait, in theaters?
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In theaters by myself. OK, so this is the breakdown of
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what happened. Abby texted me on Saturday, and
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I was like, what are you doing? And I'm like, first of all, I
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didn't even know she was home. And then and then I said, so
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this morning in our friend group chat, somebody mentioned that
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they saw it and they said it's the contender for best movie of
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the year. I took that seriously, Abby,
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saying it could have been a joke.
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Regardless, I immediately bought a ticket.
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I was thinking about what do I do that night I've been moving.
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I was just like, so tired. I just wanted to do something
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for me. And so I was like, I'm going to
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go see the sheet detectives. And I had high hopes, let me
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tell you. And it was like, good.
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It was good. Like, did I tear up a little?
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Yeah. Oh my God, I always.
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Tear up though, that's like that's.
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Well, me too me. Too right?
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It doesn't take much animation. Was adorable.
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Great story. Did it blow me away like
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something I'd never seen before? Like, probably not.
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Like you kind of knew it was going to happen, you know?
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Maybe that's just me. When I saw the trailer in the
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theaters, my first, the first thing I said was this looks
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like, what do you call it, Glass, the Glass Onion and the
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Knives Out, I said. This looks like just sheep
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version of Knives Out. And it was, yeah.
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It was. And it that kind of all played
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out. I feel like I love Knives Out.
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Yeah, so do I, I. Personally love knives out.
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Better than the sheep version. I don't know.
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I like I enjoy it was very entertaining, but but like I it
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cracked me up that that's the movie I went and saw by myself
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because the movie that we all went to see together, Wuthering
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Heights, where I literally sobbed.
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I was can't confirm. Like, OK, you know how like when
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you're like heaving, you're like sobbing like you can't stop.
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Like that's what it was. I hadn't cried that much since
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probably like my first boyfriend breakup.
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Like I was it was intense. I and I don't know why And then
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I was like laughing while it was happening and then I kept on
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thinking like and then I like would cry again and then I see
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the sheep detectives by myself like that should have been when
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I'm sobbing, I feel like by myself, except for with friends.
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I was also crying a lot, but I, I, it was like a prolonged cry,
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like I was crying for a majority of that movie.
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So by the end, when things hit the fan, I feel like I was, I
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was, I was trying to keep it in and I think I did a good job of
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like at least not like you're just blasting it out,
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blubbering. You said it.
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That's exactly how I describe it.
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Blubbering. I was you know what I actually
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just the past couple days have been re watching my heart and
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soul The Hunger Games series I love I've.
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Only seen the first, yeah. Oh my God, it's like, I mean, I
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I say this about so many things, but it's just like a comfort
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yeah thing. We all have those absolutely
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love everything about those movies and.
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They're extremely well made. Timeless love Jennifer Lawrence
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like Timeless. She could do anything and I
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would love it. Same and Josh Hutcherson.
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People don't give him enough credit for that role.
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Yeah. What has he been in since that?
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Five Nights at Freddy's. Oh God, I've never seen it.
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Not something I'm going to watch.
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But I heard that he was in it and obviously I'm a fan so.
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No, I need to actually go back and watch all of this 'cause I
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do think I would really like them.
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You would, which is why I'm a little surprised you haven't.
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I don't know it was everyone had their series right?
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Like mine was Twilight so. But I had.
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I loved them all too. Yeah, I loved them all.
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I, I was like a very selective reader and I feel like Twilight
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I probably read like 4 times through.
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Yeah, OK. Yeah, well, on the list to do,
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to see, to watch. Solo.
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Maybe some tears, maybe some blubbering.
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Maybe some blubbering. Oh, I will say really quickly on
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the topic of movies, my cousin Jake, who has a YouTube channel
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and reviews movies, he went and saw a Devil Wears Prada.
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And if you know my cousin or you know his entire channel, that is
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very not on brand for him. Did you see it?
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You're she's Abby's reacting very strongly.
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Did you like it? I did OK.
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Jake was not a fan. OK.
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And he loved Wicked. He thought it was like one of
9:36
the best movies of the year. And he's deep like 1900 to like
9:41
2000 horror. That's his.
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That's his. Niche, I think for like a second
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movie made this long after, it was good.
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Like, you know what I mean? Because I think there's only so
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much you can do with those things.
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But I think for the people who like, love the original, it was
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just kind of fun to see those characters again because, like,
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Meryl Streep is iconic. I love her.
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I just watched. Oh, my God, We're going to keep
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going with this. I just watched.
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What is it? It's not it's complicated.
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Meryl Streep. No, it's it's about her and A
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and they're in a relationship. Her and an old man.
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Sorry my brain. Is an old man or like?
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An old man, just like a very famous actor.
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Gerard Butler. No, old old man.
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Gerard Butler is not like old, old everyone's going to like, be
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like, you're ridiculous when I'm.
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Having a hard time like. He's like a very famous actor
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and a boss. My boyfriend.
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Am I allowed to say his name? I'll ask him.
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Don't ask. Me.
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Here we go. I'm going to have to bleep
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something else out again. Oh, Steve Carell was in it.
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Hope Springs. And the man who's in it is Tommy
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Lee Jones. I have never heard of it.
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It's if you love like psychology and just in general, it's all
11:05
about them, like re establishing intimacy in the relationship
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after like decades of being married and they're so
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comfortable in their ways. And she's like, no, I want a
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real romantic relationship. Our kids are out of the house.
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And I don't know. I just thought it was kind of
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beautiful and Steve Carell was amazing in it.
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It was funny, it was sad, it was, it was really great.
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And it's an old one though, like older, not old here and now.
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I'm going to say when it was, it was in 2012.
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I mean, that was what, 14 years ago?
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Yeah, actually. That is.
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Crazy, I think I just vomited in my mouth.
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I think we just saw our lives like flash before our eyes.
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No 2012 literally is like Max 10 years ago Max.
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Yeah, no, it's. Not like I didn't.
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Wasn't that when everyone thought the world was going to
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end? Yes, I cried in my bedroom on
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New Year's Eve 2012 because I thought like I had so much
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anxiety, still do, that the world was going to end and I
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literally like was in my room. I remember like just so sad.
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Where was your parents like? I think they were like.
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Watching the ball drop. Yeah, with friends, like, and I
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think they were like out for dinner or something with
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friends. And I remember like just, I was
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like, I don't want this ball to drop because it's not going to
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end. Because once this ball drops,
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yeah, more balls be dropped. Exactly.
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In so many ways. In so many ways.
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So yeah, core memory. Wow, that's I don't think I ever
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had apocalyptic fears or anxiety.
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My only very sorry I have like a whole.
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Plan to get a bunker. I'm not even.
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Getting wow. OK, My like super niche anxiety
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thing is every single time I see somebody doing something
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impressive, anything, something that I most likely like can't do
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right, Most likely I have this quick instant impulsive thought
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and fear that I'm going to switch bodies with them and
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minds with them and have to do the performance or whatever
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they're doing. Sorry, OK.
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So someone think that's a? Dream.
13:15
Let me I'm going to give you an example, OK?
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I am watching a Broadway show. I cannot sing OK, I have a
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moment where I'm listening and it's just the most beautiful
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thing ever. I'm just like watching and I'm
13:28
just wow, how can they remember all of these lines and know all
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these places and do all these moves?
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It's amazing. My next thought, holy fuck.
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What if all of a sudden I switch bodies and minds with them?
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And now that I have to do the entire performance, that's my
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next thought and I have severe anxiety for about like 2 seconds
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and then I'm. Good.
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I feel like the example you gave like like I could already like
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picture the scenario with so many things like I, I get what
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you're saying, I just have never, I've never thought about
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that, but like. Or I've thought, like when my
14:00
boyfriend was an investment banker, I would think, Oh my
14:03
God, what if I had to go into like a deal or something like
14:06
that and I switch bodies with him and he had to go to my job
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and I had to go to his job and. Giving Freaky Friday did that
14:12
movie do something like? Wait, wait.
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That was like one of my family's, my brother's favorite
14:19
movies. We had a minivan that had like
14:20
one of those DVD. Drops OH.
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Yeah, we had the headphones and it was the best thing in the
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entire. World, bring those back.
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On road trips, yeah, bring those back.
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I feel like they do have them, but now it's just like in
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really. Bougie Well, now everybody just
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has like devices. Oh.
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That's so true, you know? Yeah, we watched that on repeat.
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Oh my God. I wonder if that's where it's
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times from it. Just sounds awfully similar, I
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don't know. Also, it's deep into like
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perfectionism. That's what it really is.
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Is that the idea that all of a sudden I wouldn't be able to
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perform and be perfect? See, I think OK, OK.
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If we're really getting into it. I think final thing I'll say
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here is I think my like little like bunker thing, it's just
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it's roots from just all my anxieties and just want to, you
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know, survivalist mentality and like I've always just like if
15:12
shit's hitting the fan, you won't see me like I'm out Like I
15:16
am just like. What you mean shit in the fan
15:18
like the world dying? Just like any like emergency
15:21
type of situation, like I find myself just like fully tunnel
15:26
vision to like where's the exit? Like I am just.
15:29
Boom. So if I hurt myself, you
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wouldn't take me to the hospital?
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No, you would leave. Me.
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No, no, if like I've had OK experience like last year I was
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at the airport in Charlotte and I started seeing smoke billowing
15:48
in the terminal and I was at like the last terminal, the
15:52
airport So and I there's commotion, people are yelling,
15:56
employees start running. So I'm thinking like this is it.
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I had AI was eating a bag of chickpea cheese puffs and I left
16:05
them and I tried to run through the like the gate to the plane.
16:11
I didn't follow the employees because I'm like, shit's going
16:13
down like. Oh my.
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Yeah, you follow the employees. They they tackled a man he
16:18
brought in like a smoke bomb or whatever.
16:21
That's so misleading. Like the smoke bomb that's such
16:24
like a prank rather than like a but you're at an airport.
16:28
Like buddy, you can't do that. Oh my gosh, I know I don't like
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it was all a blur, but I truly was like, this is it's
16:36
happening. I got to find the nearest exit.
16:39
I'm leaving the cheese puffs behind and I'm getting out of
16:43
here and like the the workers were like no, no, and like close
16:46
the door on me. I'm like, OK, am I going to bust
16:49
this down? You're like, are you really
16:51
trying to stop me from surviving?
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Yeah, damn. Little bit about me.
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OK, I'm done. We.
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Got into it with our anxieties a little bit.
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We just barely scratched the surface.
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So more to come on that guys. Anyways, 17 minutes in, Are you
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ready to start? I was like I never.
17:12
Shut up. No, look, I've been loving this
17:16
and we always, just as a reminder, we always put the
17:18
timestamp in the show notes for people who want to not listen to
17:23
us yap and they just want to hear the story, even though
17:26
yapping is kind of just a side effect of all the stories that
17:29
we do. But so keep keep in mind you
17:33
don't ever have to listen to this, but we'd like it if you
17:36
did anyways. Actually, on the last episode
17:42
that we did, we put bloopers at the end of the episode.
17:47
So if you're at all intrigued and you didn't, it was after the
17:51
outro. So I wouldn't expect many people
17:54
to listen. But we thought it was really
17:55
funny and we kept it in. Anyways, I think without further
18:00
ado, we jump in. Let's do it.
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OK, amazing. So I am going to be telling a
18:06
story today of GAIL Spencer. I had two quotes that I couldn't
18:11
decide between and so I am going to read both of them to you.
18:16
OK. The first one is from her
18:18
sister. GAIL loved her family.
18:21
You knew you were loved from the moment you talked to her.
18:24
He left her knowing by looking at the pictures in her home that
18:27
she was loved. And then the second quote you
18:33
promised. You promised, you promised.
18:36
I'll let those linger for a little bit.
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Very different quotes in very different context.
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Let's start. We're in Gail's neighborhood.
18:46
It's late at night, and something as small as a dog left
18:51
outside is going to reveal the scene.
18:55
It's late on the night of Saturday, October 6th, 2012,
19:00
2012. Yep, the year of.
19:02
Whoa, wait, sorry for a second. I was like, did I?
19:05
Already reveal. I was just going to say, I was
19:07
going to ask you if you did that on.
19:08
Purpose. Oh my God.
19:09
I didn't at all I'm. I got chills OK so the year that
19:15
the world was ending. GAIL Spencer lives on
19:17
Stinsonville Road in a house that looks like the kind of
19:20
place where you know that somebody has built a life.
19:23
It's all of these stories where somebody is murdered within
19:27
their own home. It sometimes I just, I'm driving
19:32
through neighborhoods and I get chills down my spine because I
19:35
think about all of these homes and these, the victims that go
19:38
through this in their own homes. And you would never know.
19:41
You're just driving by and it's just, oh, what a beautiful home.
19:44
Or, oh, I wonder who lives there?
19:46
It's just crazy to think, you know, what happens inside them.
19:50
So Gail's neighbors come home. It's late.
19:53
It's like 2:00 AM. And they notice something
19:55
strange immediately. Their dog is still outside.
19:59
Earlier, GAIL had agreed to do this normal thing that she often
20:03
did for them, very neighborly. She was going to let their dog
20:05
back inside their house. And Gail's very trustworthy.
20:09
She was just that kind of person.
20:11
She would always be happy to do something for someone else and
20:14
very reliable, thoughtful. She's always the person that
20:17
people could count on. But when the neighbors return,
20:20
the dog is still outside. I think they were at like a
20:22
football game or something and then maybe stayed after and.
20:27
They see that their dog is still outside.
20:28
They're immediately concerned. When you know somebody and you
20:32
know that they're extremely reliable.
20:34
It's kind of like when kids go missing or any, anyone goes
20:38
missing, an adult and somebody comes to the police station,
20:41
they're like, no, this is not them.
20:44
This is their routine. This is out of the ordinary.
20:47
You have to take me seriously. I know that there is something
20:50
wrong. This this is exactly what it
20:53
was. They just had a feeling.
20:55
Neighbors start to worry. They go over to Gail's house and
20:57
the lights are on. But it's 2:00 in the morning,
21:00
all the lights are on in the house.
21:03
They knock on the door. Nobody will answer.
21:05
So finally they end up calling the police and they forced their
21:08
way inside. The neighbor follows them going
21:11
into the home. And once they're inside the
21:13
house, the neighbor and officers discover one that the thermostat
21:19
is set to 58 degrees, 58°. It's October.
21:24
Oh my. God, in Georgia, which like, you
21:26
know, it's chilly at night for sure.
21:29
It's like 2 in the morning, freaky.
21:31
Like imagine just like you're already really wearing, you walk
21:33
in and you're suddenly freezing cold.
21:35
Like you have to immediately know that something is is not
21:38
right and you're about to find something bad.
21:40
So the officers are looking around the house with the
21:44
neighbor. The neighbor goes to her bedroom
21:46
and sees GAIL on her bed. There's a bag over her head.
21:49
It's a black plastic bag, kind of like from a convenience
21:53
store, maybe even a trash bag. At first, police do not see that
21:57
there are obvious injuries. The house is secure.
22:02
You know, the deadbolt was locked.
22:04
Her car is gone. And that combination is really
22:07
confusing for them. Is it suicide?
22:10
Is it something else? Why is her car missing?
22:12
Why are the lights on? Why is the thermostat down so
22:14
low? But they know that a 58 year old
22:18
woman is dead in her home and something does not make sense.
22:23
That's where this case begins. OK, let's get into who GAIL
22:28
Spencer was. We talked about it a little bit.
22:31
Very reliable, very thoughtful woman.
22:33
She was a mother, she was a grandmother, a very beloved
22:37
mother and grandmother, beloved sister, daughter, an aunt, a Co
22:42
worker, church member. Everybody loved her deeply.
22:45
It was very clear she was born on July 28th, 1954 in Macon, GA,
22:50
so where she ended up spending most of her life.
22:53
She grew up there, she graduated from Central High School.
22:56
She was a lifelong member of Bellevue Baptist Church and
23:00
professionally she worked as a legal secretary and office
23:03
manager for Calder Pinkston and Associates, a law firm in Macon.
23:07
Now immediately, I'm thinking, if anyone is a fan of Suits, I'm
23:10
thinking Donna, OK, have you seen Suits?
23:14
I've seen some of it. I actually do make fun of my
23:17
boyfriend for having liked it. You make fun of him for liking
23:22
it. I literally have a mug that says
23:23
you just got lit up if if you've watched the show.
23:26
I think it's more the fact that like I one time like turned on
23:29
the Netflix and like see that he was recently watching it and I'm
23:32
like you like suits, like it's kind of threw me.
23:35
That's I I think it's AI think it's a great show.
23:38
I just finished re watching all nine seasons.
23:41
Wow. Yeah, I just was pounding
23:43
through it and I love that show and one of the core people in
23:48
suits. I know Donna.
23:49
Yeah, she's the. Redhead.
23:51
Yeah. She's like, she starts as a
23:52
secretary later on when she gets promoted and everything, but she
23:55
is known as she is the one that keeps shit together.
23:59
She literally holds that law firm together like glue.
24:02
And without her things, things get really tough.
24:06
And that's exactly, I think, who GAIL was.
24:09
That's who it reminded me of. And at the law firm, their
24:13
reliability on GAIL really mattered.
24:17
It wasn't just her answering phones or organizing papers.
24:21
She had worked there for about 10 years, and part of her job
24:25
involved real estate Closings and wire transfers.
24:28
So it was like a real estate law firm, which I literally just
24:32
closed on the House today, which I said earlier or maybe I
24:35
didn't, but I did close on the House today.
24:37
And so I literally went to one of these real estate law firms
24:40
where, you know, doing all the signing and all of that and
24:43
they, you know, dealt with the paying off my loan and all of
24:46
that. So literally just went through,
24:48
you know, a very similar situation in which, you know,
24:51
GAIL, where she worked, she was trusted personally and very
24:55
trusted professionally. Because GAIL was so trustworthy
25:01
and she also trusted other people professionally.
25:05
It was something that people loved and respected most about
25:08
her. That became why she was
25:10
targeted, which is really, really sad.
25:13
So this gets into again the 1st quote I'm just going to read
25:17
again from Gail's sister, Joe Ellen Smith.
25:22
GAIL loved her family. You knew you were loved from the
25:24
moment you talked to her. He left her knowing by looking
25:27
at the pictures in her home that she was loved.
25:29
Just want to repeat that because I think it means a lot more once
25:33
you hear everything about her. Investigators are looking at a
25:36
few things that do not line up neatly, which is everything that
25:40
we talked about. GAIL is dead in her bed.
25:42
There's a bag over her head. The house is secure.
25:44
Her car, a silver 2004 Acura Integra, is missing.
25:49
There are no obvious signs at first that point to a chaotic
25:52
break in, you know, like you would normally see broken glass
25:56
or things like, you know, ripped apart and, and stuff on the
25:59
floor and the house is super cold.
26:03
The first public reports described police responding to a
26:07
welfare call at Gail's home. And at first, the scene was
26:11
confusing enough that her death was treated as suspicious from
26:15
the beginning. And they did raise the
26:17
possibility of suicide. But then the autopsy came back
26:20
and Gail's death was ruled a homicide.
26:23
Her cause of death was asphyxia, meaning she had been deprived of
26:27
oxygen and it was being suffocated by that plastic bag.
26:30
And the medical examiner would explain that she died by
26:33
strangling and smothering. So now investigators have to ask
26:36
who would do this to GAIL Spencer?
26:38
Like, again, imagine somebody you.
26:41
It's never. I'm going to go back for a
26:44
second because in watching the Your Worst Nightmare TV episode
26:50
on this, Joe Ellen Smith, her sister was interviewed
26:54
throughout this and she's like, this happens to other people.
26:58
You read about this in the news. This doesn't happen to somebody,
27:00
you know, somebody you love your sister like.
27:03
And it's true. You think of the least likely
27:06
person, a single mom, grandma lives alone, you know, great
27:12
beloved has a normal stable job, has been there for 10 years.
27:15
Like this is just the last person you would think.
27:18
It makes no sense. What motive can somebody have to
27:20
kill her? Yeah, question.
27:23
You said she's single, so was she ever married?
27:27
I know that's a great question. I don't know.
27:28
I looked into this a little bit. She obviously has a son so that
27:34
came from someone, but I don't. OK.
27:39
How? But how?
27:44
I'm not quite sure. I couldn't find details on that,
27:47
on her past relationship. But if she does have a son and
27:51
he's very much not in her life at all, so we're asking, was
27:55
this a stranger? Was this a robbery?
27:58
Was this someone who just came for her car?
28:00
Like, was it somebody who knew her?
28:01
What in the world could this possibly be?
28:04
One of the most important clues is not only inside Gail's house.
28:08
It is also her workplace, as I alluded to earlier in my script.
28:15
Now rewind to Friday, October 5th, 2012.
28:19
So this is the day before Gail's body is found.
28:22
GAIL is supposed to go to work at Calder Pinkston and
28:24
Associates, which is like the most classic lawyer law firm
28:29
name I've ever heard. Calder Pinkston and Associates.
28:33
Like that's the kind of a movie. This is where who GAIL was
28:38
becomes really important because when a person is unreliable,
28:42
people might not panic when they do not show up.
28:45
But we know she's extremely reliable.
28:47
So they probably, they would assume she overslept or somebody
28:52
who's not reliable. You would probably assume that,
28:55
you know, I wouldn't say I'm like super unreliable.
28:59
I don't know, Abby, would you say I'm super unreliable?
29:02
I wouldn't say you're super unreliable.
29:05
So like, like I would never not contact you if I was all of a
29:09
sudden not going to be somewhere, right?
29:11
And I feel like you can pretty much assume that for most of our
29:13
friends, we also have like our locations.
29:15
So that's another thing too. If I'm supposed to meet you
29:17
somewhere and I would immediately check your location
29:19
and you're just not showing up and not answering me, I would
29:21
immediately check your location and then see what's going on.
29:24
So they knew that something was wrong when GAIL did not show up,
29:28
but she does. Or at least it appears that a
29:31
text from Gail's phone goes to the attorney called her
29:35
Pinkston, the main guy, the name partner as they would say in
29:39
suits. And the text says that GAIL is
29:41
sick and she will not be in that day.
29:44
So OK, absence explained. But while GAIL is supposedly
29:50
sick at home, something is happening inside the law firms
29:52
financial systems. Money is moving, and it's not a
29:56
small amount of money. Hundreds of thousands of dollars
29:59
are being wired out of the firm's escrow account, and the
30:02
transfers will ultimately total just under 1.3 million.
30:06
Oh my gosh. Yeah, So something to quickly
30:09
explain because I also had to learn this when, again, today I
30:13
was literally closing. Where does the money go when a
30:17
buyer, you know, buys a house and the seller has to pay off
30:21
their loan? You know, you get that money and
30:22
it goes to the bank, It goes into escrow.
30:26
What is escrow? Great question.
30:27
No clue. It seems like limbo.
30:30
That's how I would describe it. No clue anyways, but it
30:33
essentially lives in a little spot in the interim until it can
30:37
go to the right place. And so somebody's capitalizing
30:41
on that limbo and they are basically taking that money out
30:44
and transferring it to somewhere that it's not supposed to go.
30:48
So, yeah, so investigators are not just looking at a murder
30:54
anymore. They're looking at this huge
30:56
financial scheme. So that changes everything.
31:00
We're starting to get the whole picture.
31:03
And to understand why GAIL was targeted, we also need to
31:06
understand her role at the firm. So like we said, she was an
31:09
office manager, she was a Donna Paulson and she had worked there
31:13
for about 10 years. She oversaw real estate Closings
31:17
and handling wire transfers. And so Long story short, GAIL
31:22
had a lot of authority, more so than you might just, like
31:25
anticipate an office manager. When you hear, I think that
31:29
phrase, I think it can mean so many different things.
31:33
She is handling a lot of money. Another reason why she's so
31:37
trustworthy. You know, she has a big job.
31:39
She's got a big responsibility. And there's very few people that
31:44
have the permission and authority to make these kinds of
31:48
movements of money. So there was another employee at
31:51
the firm, her name is Tracy Jones.
31:53
She did not have that authority to handle wire transfers without
31:57
explicit permission, but she had been trained to complete wire
32:01
transfers and had done them before when she was authorized.
32:06
So she knew enough to understand the system.
32:08
She knew what needed to happen. She knew Gail's role, she knew
32:11
Gail's access, and she knew GAIL could be an obstacle.
32:15
So now we know this is not somebody just stumbling into
32:19
Gail's house in the middle of the night like I want to steal a
32:20
car, this is, or somebody who just wants to assault somebody.
32:24
This is. There's a lot more going on.
32:28
So the plan was built around GAIL not being at work.
32:31
Now, I had read in multiple places and heard in the episode
32:38
of Your Worst Nightmare that I watched that there was some
32:42
tension between Tracy and GAIL. They had hired Tracy to actually
32:49
relieve some of the duties of GAIL because she was really
32:52
overworked. And she was super excited.
32:55
GAIL was really excited to have Tracy because Tracy had previous
32:57
experience at a law firm. She's like, wait, this girl can
33:00
just come in and hit the ground running.
33:03
And that was not what happened. She essentially had to redo
33:05
Tracy's work a bunch because it just wasn't good.
33:08
And she kept on giving her feedback.
33:10
And this girl was just did not care.
33:14
But Tracy was kind of well liked at the firm.
33:17
That's what it seemed like. And so GAIL kind of, they just
33:21
had a little bit of tension. Yeah.
33:24
What age is Tracy? That's a great question because
33:29
the way you're describing I, I would assume a little bit
33:32
younger, but maybe with the experience, no.
33:37
She was younger for sure. She was 38 years old.
33:43
OK Yeah, she was definitely younger than GAIL.
33:46
So getting back to Gail's house on Friday morning, October 5th,
33:51
she's not dressed for work yet. She's most likely just getting
33:53
ready for the day and somebody comes and knocks on her door and
33:57
it's her Co worker Tracy Jones. Tracy asked to use Gail's
34:02
bathroom and she asked for something to drink.
34:04
She asked to use Gail's phone and GAIL let's her in because
34:08
obviously why wouldn't she? It's weird because they're not
34:11
like close. But the whole story is that
34:14
Tracy was dropping a friend off in the neighborhood and her car
34:17
broke down and they had went out to lunch.
34:21
Tracy had invited GAIL out to lunch previously.
34:24
And GAIL already thought it was kind of weird because they're
34:28
like not really close. And they actually had a little
34:31
bit of tension and then, you know, they had lunch together,
34:33
whatever. And within this, she was able to
34:36
obtain her Gail's address and in the way that they displayed it
34:40
in the your worst nightmare, which again, I don't know if
34:41
it's factually accurate, but she's basically talking about
34:44
Christmas cards. And she was saying, I'm finally
34:46
going to do one this year. Like, what's your address?
34:48
And I'll send one to you, something like that.
34:49
So there was an innocuous way that she was able to get her
34:52
address. Still, I bet like Gail's a
34:54
little bit like what? But like, again, she's thinking
34:57
this girl who's younger than me, like she's maybe she's trying to
35:00
be better. She's trying to get better at
35:02
her job. She's being nice, you know, And
35:04
I, I've put in a lot of work to help her.
35:06
Maybe she's finally appreciating it.
35:08
And you're also probably not thinking like worst case
35:10
scenario, like you just think, oh, would you just, yeah.
35:14
Literally, we've all been fake nice to somebody at work.
35:18
God knows I have. Gosh, it's literally in the job
35:20
description at this point. God no.
35:22
I had so many issues with this real estate agent for the buyers
35:27
of my house and I saw her in the parking lot today and we were
35:31
like, Oh my God, hi, how are you?
35:33
Like, it was the fakest conversation I've ever been a
35:35
part of. But again, you just do it 'cause
35:37
like, you don't think anything of it.
35:40
GAIL is a nice person, so she lets her in, obviously.
35:44
And while Tracy's in the bathroom, she sends a text
35:47
message to two men waiting nearby, her then boyfriend,
35:51
Michael Brett Kelly and Keith Anthony Dozier.
35:55
The message says that she has made it inside.
35:58
Then GAIL goes to her bedroom to get dressed for work.
36:00
Tracy is in the kitchen. She's sipping a drink and
36:03
holding Gail's cell phone. And then two masked men come
36:07
into the house, Brett Kelly and Keith Dozier.
36:10
He goes by Brett. They're wearing masks and
36:12
gloves. They check the house to make
36:14
sure nobody else is there. And then Brett Kelly goes into
36:16
Gail's bedroom. He grabs her.
36:18
He puts a gun to her face, and he warns her not to talk or to
36:21
scream. Now, Tracy is able to leave at
36:24
that point. So she leaves once she knows
36:27
that everything is secure. They've gotten in and they
36:30
weren't, you know, suspected. She makes sure nobody's kind of
36:32
looking around, and she ends up going to work.
36:35
Oh, my gosh. Because she has to keep a cover,
36:37
right? You know, And she has these two
36:39
men that are going to take care of it.
36:40
You'll see GAIL in during this time.
36:45
GAIL is bound with duct tape. She's held inside her own home
36:49
while Tracy leaves. Tracy goes to work, so she knows
36:53
like she's going to work knowing that GAIL is scared out of her
36:57
mind being just captured and and taken hostage.
37:02
I I don't know how you do that. Not at all.
37:06
Yeah, so Tracy uses Gail's phone to text the attorney and say
37:11
that GAIL is sick. So that's where that text comes
37:14
from. I see.
37:15
OK. And the plan, according to court
37:18
records, was that the money would go into accounts held by
37:21
Courtney Kelly. Courtney Kelly is Brett Kelly's
37:24
half sister. So there's now three people
37:27
involved in this whole entire scheme, or, sorry, four.
37:31
We got Courtney Kelly, Brett Kelly, Brett Kelly dating Tracy
37:37
and then Anthony Dozier, who's just a friend.
37:40
So their plan was that the whole group would split the proceeds.
37:44
The first transfer transfers are huge and it's estimated around
37:50
$885,000 transferred out while GAIL is being held at home.
37:56
According to the trial testimony, Dozier was supposed
37:58
to receive 300 K of the money and the rest was supposed to be
38:01
split among Tracy, Brett and Courtney.
38:04
But money doesn't really move the way that I think these
38:07
people seem to think it does. Banks have holds, transfers have
38:12
timing, accounts have delays. I mean, how many times have I
38:15
been like transfer from my accounts and I need this money
38:18
right now and no, I have to pay an extra fee that they only done
38:21
that recently. I feel like that it used to just
38:23
be delayed and now you can pay an extra fee to have it really
38:25
quickly. So this, I think it's just like
38:30
compounding greed. You start to get money.
38:33
But they have stopped at $885,000.
38:35
Yeah, they could have totally stopped there, but they don't
38:37
want to stop. They see the money rolling in.
38:40
And so I think it all just creates this building tension,
38:43
and they start to turn on each other.
38:45
This is where the details become graphic.
38:49
GAIL was terrified in his police interview.
38:53
Keith Dozier would later tell detectives that GAIL was shaking
38:56
so badly, he thought she might die of a heart attack or stroke.
39:01
I'm actually going to, in the episode, play some of the
39:04
interrogation audio trying something new.
39:08
But I think it's really powerful to hear it and it's it's just,
39:12
it's different hearing a story and then hearing it from the
39:15
actual mouth of the killer. We went in.
39:22
We went in. I went down the hallway to make
39:26
sure nobody else was there. OK, Brett to go ahead.
39:30
Brett went there, grabbed her and nothing, put a gun to her
39:38
face, told her not to say anything, don't scream or
39:41
nothing. Then Tracy walked out.
39:43
I've done this before. Brett knew everything.
39:49
He told he he got duct tape, tied her up.
39:57
She was so scared, she was shaking so bad, thought she was
40:03
going to die from a heart attack or a stroke or something.
40:09
It's just like, what do you want?
40:10
You know, I don't have much I give you.
40:12
I want. I was behind her.
40:19
I just kept rubbing my shoulders like, I'm sorry.
40:21
I just had to be you just guessing.
40:25
Please don't let him kill me. And I was like, I'm trying my
40:28
best. I'm gonna try.
40:32
He said that he rubbed her shoulders and apologized for
40:34
what was happening, but he didn't save her.
40:38
Brett Kelly was the one with the gun.
40:41
Brett Kelly is going to be the most violent, sadistic of the
40:45
two. Dozier almost seemed to have
40:49
empathy for her. You know, he, he was actually
40:53
apologizing to her. Brett Kelly comes back in with a
40:56
gun, and Dozier would later say that Brett told him to stay out
41:00
of the bedroom for several minutes.
41:02
At some point, GAIL came out of the bedroom shaking even more.
41:06
And then Dozier said he overheard Brett say on the
41:07
phone. I might have to kill her.
41:10
Brett Kelly then told Dozier he had forced GAIL to perform a sex
41:13
act on him. After that, according to Dozier,
41:17
Brett asked GAIL if she would stay quiet After they left.
41:21
He threatened to kill her grandchildren.
41:23
And I mean, she had personal information all around the
41:26
house. They could have easily found the
41:27
address. GAIL pleaded for her life, also
41:31
pleaded for her grandchildren's lives.
41:33
Dozier said he told Brett that there was no reason to kill her.
41:36
She did not know who they were and she did not know why they
41:39
needed to be there. Dozier was essentially trying to
41:43
get Brett to chill and Brett told him to stand watch from
41:50
another room. So he did, and Dozier heard a
41:54
struggle. He heard GAIL screaming, and
41:57
according to Dozier, he heard her say, you promised, you
42:01
promised, you promised. Then Brett ran into the kitchen.
42:06
He came back with a black plastic bag.
42:09
And when Brett came out of the bedroom again, GAIL was dead.
42:13
The medical examiner would later testify that GAIL died of
42:15
asphyxia. As we talked about, the medical
42:18
examiner explained that in a death like Gail's, a person may
42:21
lose consciousness after two or three minutes.
42:23
That means it wasn't instant. You know, it wasn't super fast.
42:27
It's thinking about strangling. It's like I've heard serial
42:30
killers talk about strangling as like it's way harder than you
42:35
think it is and it's way longer than you think it is, which is
42:38
just horrifying. I mean, again, Gail's sister in
42:41
this interview, like, you could just, you could tell that her
42:45
sister had unfortunately really thought about the fear that GAIL
42:51
was experiencing right before she died.
42:54
It was just very evident in the way she talked about it, which
42:56
is something nobody should ever have to think about with their
42:58
loved 1. You know, like, losing a loved
43:01
one is hard enough for natural causes than to think, you know,
43:03
what they went through in their final moments is just horrible.
43:07
Yeah. It's like sickening.
43:08
Yeah, it's like I your mind obviously can go there so
43:13
easily, but it's yeah, that's horrible.
43:17
Terrible. Around 4:00 PM, Brett Kelly and
43:21
Keith Dozier leave Gail's house. GAIL is dead in her bed.
43:25
Her home is quiet. The thermostat is down, the
43:27
lights are still on. And outside of Gail's house,
43:30
life in the neighborhood is just the same.
43:33
Do we know anything about why the thermostat was turned down?
43:37
Was it to try and? Slow decomposition, Yeah, they
43:41
did that before they left to slow decomp.
43:43
Were they, I wonder, was it the intention to do that so it would
43:47
throw off like the timeline for? I think that, I think also, I
43:51
think that they thought they had a lot more time before they were
43:55
going to get caught and we'll get into it in a little bit, but
43:58
they really were planning on getting the heck out of dodge.
44:02
What's the phrase get get out of dodge?
44:08
No, she speaks in Spanish. No say get the hell out of
44:13
Dodge. Commenters, listeners, please
44:17
comment below. Tell me what the phrase is is.
44:19
That a phrase. Yeah, something get the
44:21
something out of Dodge. OK, fine.
44:23
We're at a point where I'm looking it up.
44:25
OK, I know what you're talking about, but I can't say I've ever
44:28
used. Get out of dodge.
44:30
It's an idiom meaning to leave a place quickly.
44:34
Well, would you look at that. OK, Even after GAIL is dead,
44:41
obviously the money is still the focus of all of this.
44:44
The transfers have been made. Everybody is expecting a cut.
44:47
But Courtney Kelly, the person whose accounts actually received
44:51
the money, leaves town before the money can be divided.
44:55
That creates another problem for the group because now the people
44:57
who were willing to hold GAIL hostage and leave her dead in
45:01
her home are angry that they have not been paid.
45:04
So in the days after Gail's murder, Dozier goes to Tracy's
45:06
house multiple times asking for his cut.
45:10
Brett even takes Dozier to an ATM to show him the money is not
45:13
yet available. And then Tracy does something
45:15
else. On Monday, October 9th, after
45:17
GAIL has already been found, Tracy makes another series of
45:21
unauthorized wire transfers. 2 more transfers, one for 245,000
45:27
and one for 163,000 and that brings the total stolen to just
45:31
under 1.3 million. So it's not like they panicked
45:36
after the murder and completely stopped and they regretted their
45:39
actions. Nothing like that.
45:40
They keep going there after that.
45:42
They're like, we're going to keep getting money even though
45:45
you know they already had money. I don't know if Courtney was
45:48
expecting to then transfer the money later.
45:51
I have no clue if she was just truly just trying to run with
45:53
the money. No clue.
45:55
But they were freaking out. And not long after Gail's body
45:58
is found, investigators receive a tip someone Brett Kelly had
46:03
tried to recruit into. The plan goes to police.
46:06
That tip leads investigators to Brett, and then Brett leads him
46:09
to Tracy and Keith. This is where the suspects begin
46:13
to completely unfold. There's Tracy Jones, Gail's Co
46:16
worker, the person who had access to the office, who knew
46:19
the financial system, so knew Gail's role and was able to get
46:22
inside Gail's home. Then there's Michael Brett
46:25
Kelly, Tracy's then boyfriend. He's only 18 at the time.
46:29
I did not realize that. I totally forgot about that.
46:31
Excuse me, 18 at the time and she was 38.
46:35
Oh my goodness. Oh.
46:37
OK wow, honestly did not see that.
46:39
Coming. I totally did not pick up on
46:42
that. Not not that I should be
46:45
reacting in real time to my story, but that's crazy.
46:48
OK, even worse. Wait a second, let me just ask,
46:55
what do we know? I'm assuming keeping GAIL at the
47:01
house was allowing Tracy to then be like take her role for the
47:08
day? Like is that?
47:09
Exactly. Exactly.
47:11
And then she was able to not get caught.
47:13
Like if GAIL was there, she would note she's the one
47:17
monitoring all of that stuff. She would notice that the wire
47:20
transfers were happening. She would notice she'd be
47:22
getting notifications from banks and all of that stuff.
47:25
So like she would be the the connector between all of this.
47:28
So if they remove the connector, then there's nobody that
47:31
actually understands what's going on and probably isn't even
47:34
Privy to it until you get people that are angry that Closings
47:37
aren't happening and that's kind of what happens.
47:39
And then they start to figure everything out.
47:42
We also have Courtney Kelly, as we said, Brett's half sister
47:45
accounts were created by her to receive the stolen funds.
47:48
And then Keith Dozier, who's accused of being inside Gail's
47:51
home and helping hold her hostage and standing watch while
47:55
Brett killed her. Again.
47:57
According to them, the early arrests happened very quickly.
48:01
Michael Brett Kelly, Tracy Jones and Courtney Kelly are arrested
48:04
first, and then Keith Dozier is arrested shortly after.
48:09
Divers even searched part of and I looked at the pronunciation,
48:12
it's Ichikani Creek, Ichikani Creek, Ichikani Creek.
48:20
There you go. I hope people in Georgia, I
48:23
pronounced that right. Please let me know our Georgia
48:25
listeners. Divers even searched this Creek
48:30
in connection with the case. What are they looking for?
48:42
Because they already found, you know?
48:45
I can't believe you just clogged me like that.
48:48
Why did they search the Greek? Honestly sometimes I feel like
48:53
chapters and stuff that's not true.
48:55
Rose and random shit and I'm like dude, I OK yeah not to
49:01
reveal our secrets. I feel like it makes us look
49:02
super lazy. Yeah.
49:05
Public reporting does not actually say what the police
49:07
were looking for. They said that.
49:10
I wonder if it's maybe supplies. OK, I don't know.
49:15
It doesn't say. OK like AI was going to say a
49:20
weapon but it seems like. No, it was bad.
49:23
Yeah. I don't know.
49:26
That's really interesting. OK, Well, well, I'm Ichikoni
49:31
Creek. I was going to say, I'm so glad
49:32
you spent time learning how to pronounce it but not actually
49:35
knowing anything about why they were looking there.
49:39
Oh, my God, I didn't even think about that.
49:41
That's wow. What a moment.
49:43
OK. Gail's missing car is later
49:46
found at Porterfield Baptist Church and taken in for
49:49
processing. And then everything starts to
49:52
unfold. We have a workplace betrayal, a
49:55
hostage plot, a sexual assault, a murder and a theft scheme
49:58
involving around $1.3 million. And one of the reasons that this
50:04
case has such a strong paper trail is because jurors later
50:08
watched part of Keith Dozer's interview with Macon police
50:11
detectives. And at first, he's denying
50:13
everything. He's actually on the phone with
50:16
his wife in the interview room insisting he had nothing to do
50:19
with it. We have a really interesting
50:22
detective who, and I'm going to find his name because I don't
50:26
know the lead detective on this. I'm going to pause.
50:29
Is it Ichinini Creek, Sergeant? Yeah.
50:34
How did you get? Maybe they were looking for her
50:35
car by the Creek or something. Maybe.
50:37
Oh, maybe. But why would they dive into the
50:40
oh, because maybe they thought it drove it in.
50:43
Yeah, to fully get rid of the evidence.
50:45
We can go with that. OK, OK.
50:49
One of the key investigators was Scott Chapman and I remember
50:52
from the Your Worst Nightmare episode that they talked about
50:59
his investigation style and how he would kind of adopt the
51:02
language of and and mannerisms of the person that he was
51:07
interrogating, which is really interesting.
51:09
So he had like a thick southern, he did have a thick southern
51:11
accent, but like some of these suspects like had really thick
51:16
southern accents. You'll hear it when I play some
51:18
of these audio of the interrogations.
51:20
But or if like somebody said like dude or bro a lot, he would
51:27
add that in. It's like mirroring exactly,
51:30
exactly to make them feel a little more comfortable, I
51:33
think, and then make them feel like they can tell stuff.
51:36
And so in this interview, like in this interrogation, he does a
51:41
really good job of basically his Keith Dozier's wife gives him an
51:48
alibi. She says, he was with me all
51:50
night, all day. There was no way that he could
51:53
have done this. And the investigator comes down
51:59
on Keith because he knows that this is not true.
52:03
He basically tells him if you don't come clean right now, your
52:07
wife is going to jail. I am making sure that I put her
52:11
in jail for lying because we know you guys are lying, so you
52:16
might as well come clean and then only you have to go to
52:18
prison and she doesn't. He comes clean because he loves
52:21
his wife supposedly. Again, sometimes I don't
52:25
understand how people can be involved in this stuff and, and
52:28
you know, anyways, so he does come clean.
52:32
He tries to which a lot of criminals will do, they decenter
52:39
themselves from the case. So and, and what happened?
52:42
So he said I was there, but I didn't do anything.
52:45
Like Brett was the one who escalated everything.
52:47
Like I was just there to like get the passwords and get money
52:50
or something, you know. And he said murder was never
52:53
part of the plan. And he also said he was scared
52:55
of Brett and he tried to talk him out of it.
52:57
And how old is he as Brett's 18? Stop asking questions.
53:03
I need to. I'm trying to think like if he's
53:07
scared of him and he's 18, yeah. He was 23 years old.
53:12
OK. Yeah, so.
53:16
Married young. Yeah, apparently.
53:19
And so, I mean, you can question a lot about this because how
53:24
many times do we see when these criminals decide to separate
53:31
themselves from the narrative? Yes.
53:33
I was thinking the same thing, right, Because everything that
53:37
you were sharing earlier from that day in the house, you know,
53:42
him saying oh, like I went in the other room, like is that
53:46
from his accounts that? That's all we have.
53:48
Yeah, I mean, Brett corroborated the story, but yeah, that's
53:55
that's what was pieced together based on their account.
53:57
Of course, we only have them to to tell us what happened.
54:02
Going over to Tracy Jones, she she really was kind of the lead
54:08
in all of this, right? She worked with GAIL.
54:10
She knew GAIL. She knew the office.
54:13
She knew everything that she had to know to be able to do it.
54:16
OK, so Tracy sucks. We know that all four people are
54:23
eventually indicted, Keith, Tracy, Brett and Courtney.
54:29
They're indicted for malice murder, multiple felony murder
54:32
counts, aggravated assault with a handgun, burglary, false
54:36
imprison, imprisonment, and theft by taking.
54:39
Brett Kelly is also indicted for aggravated sodomy. 3 of the four
54:44
do not take their chances at trial.
54:46
I think they know they have pretty low likelihood of them
54:50
actually getting good results. Oh, yeah.
54:52
So Tracy, Courtney and Brett all plead guilty, and they have plea
54:58
deals. So Brett Kelly pleads guilty and
55:01
receives life in prison without the possibility of parole.
55:04
Courtney Kelly, also excessive plea bargain, receives a life
55:07
sentence but with the possibility of parole because
55:09
she was, you know, the one that was orchestrating the money and
55:12
all of it. But, you know, she wasn't
55:15
actively involved in the murder. And then Tracy pleads guilty,
55:22
receives life in prison without the possibility of Pearl.
55:25
Now, Keith Dozier, someone who decides to go to trial, the one
55:28
who was just there and it was never supposed to go that way.
55:33
And he tried to talk him out of it.
55:35
He basically was saying that he was coerced.
55:37
That was his defense. It did not land with the jury.
55:41
I'm not shocked. Yeah, they did not sympathize
55:45
with him at all, and he ended up getting the harshest sentence
55:50
that they could give him, which is full conviction of malice
55:54
murder, aggravated assault, false imprisonment, burglary and
55:57
theft, and sentenced to life in prison without parole plus 20
56:01
years, which I don't even. That stuff never makes sense to
56:04
me. It's like life in prison without
56:06
parole plus 20 years. What?
56:08
So he got an additional 20 because.
56:11
They hated him, I guess. Yeah, they were like, thanks for
56:12
putting us through this bullshit.
56:14
Yeah, they were like, you should have taken the plea deal and
56:15
saved us all some time. Yeah, apparently.
56:18
Bibb County Superior Court Judge Trip Self.
56:22
What a sentence. I just said that wasn't even a
56:24
sentence, but yes, that is the mouthful says he had.
56:31
But yes, that is a mouthful. The hell.
56:41
That is a mouthful. That is the mouthful.
56:52
OK, what I'm about to say is actually really terrible, but
56:57
that is funny. Judge Trip Self says that he had
57:01
trouble sleeping after being in the room while jurors watched
57:04
Dozier's video statement. His quote is, I don't think I've
57:07
ever heard anything more awful. He talks about how Dozier stood
57:11
watch while GAIL was being killed, which was about 20
57:14
minutes. And then the judge even said
57:16
that's a television show without commercials, which is, like,
57:20
puts it into perspective. You have that long to, like,
57:23
think about it and to stop it and to do something.
57:25
Yeah. So that's why I'm like, not
57:26
buying that. No, I'm not buying it you 20
57:29
minutes and not even not buying it even if you of course, you're
57:32
an adult. You made a terrible decision.
57:36
You know, like whatever coercion to me is an abused woman, an
57:43
abused man, an abused like person in relationship and they
57:48
threaten loved ones if they don't do XYZ or a child does
57:52
something, you know, helps their abuser abuse other people.
57:56
Like, you've heard so many stories of that, where to me
57:58
that's coercion, where you really feel like you did not
58:02
have a choice, but you entered that house, Keith.
58:05
He did it to get money. He did to.
58:08
Get money. And at the end of the day, he
58:09
didn't care what happened to make that happen.
58:12
Like you can't say that you did because you had 20 minutes to
58:15
stop it and and you didn't. And even longer like.
58:19
Even longer for when the entire time he was.
58:21
There, Yeah. Exactly, he literally commented
58:24
on how she reminded him of his grandmother in one of the
58:29
interrogations. It was either him or Brad Kelly,
58:31
but I'm pretty sure it was him. Yeah.
58:33
And oh God, it like may be disgusted.
58:36
Keith. One of his states statements was
58:39
on October 5th. I was a coward because I didn't
58:41
stop Mr. Kelly and the way that whole thing I was a coward
58:47
because I didn't stop Mr. Kelly. Like it just feels the amount of
58:51
displacement of blame is just like crazy.
58:54
Like he's trying to come off. I feel like as wow, I, I really
58:59
was terrible, you know, I totally regret it.
59:01
And even even if he does, even if there's a part of him that
59:04
does, you can't, you can't take it back.
59:08
You killed a 50 year old, 58 year old woman who had
59:11
grandchildren that she'll never get to see grow up.
59:14
Later, Dozier appeals and the Georgia Supreme Court reviews
59:18
his case. But he they affirmed the
59:20
convictions. So to close this out, it's a lot
59:28
of bad people making bad decisions and unfortunately a an
59:33
innocent loved, trusted woman was taken way too soon. 58 years
59:39
old is so young. That is the case of GAIL Spencer
59:44
and it's terrible, crazy, wild. As I we always say crazy and
59:52
wild, but truly it was Oh my God, it like absolutely just
59:57
like hurts me inside to think about this poor woman who in her
1:00:02
final moments was just in pure fear.
1:00:05
Yeah, and like confusion, like. Confusion.
1:00:07
So what did I do? And the quote of like you
1:00:11
promised, you promised you promised is just like heart
1:00:15
wrenching. I, I don't a part of me wonders
1:00:20
if when criminals get into situations like this and they
1:00:25
and it escalates to murder, does it really just feel like there's
1:00:28
no way out? I think it's different every
1:00:30
time. Like some people like truly, I
1:00:32
think find that they like, you know, being sadistic and, and,
1:00:36
you know, enacting the murder. But I also feel like there is a,
1:00:43
a clear psychological pattern of like escalation.
1:00:47
Because often times when you get people that are putting
1:00:50
themselves in a really intense situation that doesn't have
1:00:54
great outcomes and it's like you're pretty likely to not have
1:00:57
a great outcome that it pushes people to do terrible things.
1:01:02
Not saying that they aren't terrible people, but more so
1:01:04
like I'm interested in the psychology behind, you know, how
1:01:07
do things escalate to this? When somebody who did not need
1:01:11
to be killed, was it purely Brett Kelly is a sociopath, A
1:01:14
psychopath? Or is there something else that
1:01:17
kind of when we're in a group, when we're doing something
1:01:22
terrible that just somehow escalates the situation.
1:01:26
I don't know. It's just hard for me to fathom
1:01:28
that you're going in to steal money and then all of a sudden
1:01:30
you end up sexually assaulting and murdering a 50 year old
1:01:32
woman. It like doesn't make sense in my
1:01:34
brain. Yeah, I have to think that.
1:01:36
I mean, I would guess just based off of his interactions with
1:01:42
her, I feel like there had to be all along some intention that he
1:01:49
was going to do that. Like I just.
1:01:50
That's what they argued, that he was always going to kill her.
1:01:53
Yes, I, that's what I think. Obviously, I would like to
1:01:58
actually like look at this a little bit more, but we're like
1:02:02
just hearing this today, I would have guessed that again, I'm
1:02:07
just like Tracy, like even if you eliminated the one person
1:02:14
that day who you know would have their hands on it and would see
1:02:17
what's going on, you didn't think you were ever going to get
1:02:21
caught. Like these are the things that I
1:02:22
just. It is insane to me that these
1:02:25
people think that they're not going to get caught.
1:02:27
I think just the people who orchestrate things like this,
1:02:30
they think they're smarter than everybody else and they think
1:02:33
they're going to get away with it.
1:02:34
It like there has to be something innate that makes them
1:02:38
feel like they are above everybody else because how do
1:02:42
you? Well, clearly, yeah.
1:02:44
How do you overcome logic? Yeah, logic shows that the
1:02:47
likelihood that you're going to get caught, it's pretty high,
1:02:51
especially in today's day and age.
1:02:52
Like, what is going through your head anyways?
1:02:57
I my love goes out to her family, her son and her
1:03:01
grandchildren and her sisters and her whole entire family.
1:03:06
She seems like a really great woman.
1:03:08
So thank you everybody for listening to this longer
1:03:13
episode. But definitely worth it if you
1:03:16
have heard some tippy taps throughout the episode.
1:03:19
We have three dogs in our midst right now and they say hi.
1:03:28
OK, bye guys. Have a great Memorial Day
1:03:31
weekend. I think this is coming out
1:03:32
around then, so really hope you enjoy your Memorial Day weekend.
1:03:36
Bye guys, See you later. That's it for today's episode.
1:03:42
Thank you for listening. If you're loving the show or
1:03:45
hating it, make sure to follow us on Spotify and our social
1:03:47
media. And if you want even more
1:03:49
content, you can join us over on Patreon at Probation Behavior.
1:03:53
New episodes are released every Thursday.
1:03:56
Thank you. GAIL Spencer lives on
1:04:04
Stinsonville Road, in a house that looks like the kind of
1:04:07
place where someone has built a life.
1:04:09
Nope. I hated that.
1:04:15
OK. OK, he's bad.
1:04:22
OK.