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Josh Hublitz & Athletic Identity: In Sport and Beyond · Yips and Giggles

• speaker-0: What's up guys? Welcome to our podcast. speaker-1: She finally realized that it was all mental. What's up, y'all? Welcome back to Yips and Giggles. Today's guest is Josh Hublitz, a former Division I tennis player at UNCW who went on to spend several years in investment banking before actually walking away from that career to become a full-time content creator. Josh is also a training partner for the ATP Tour, which is a pretty cool side job. So we chat all about that and what those practices are like. And he also recently launched Postgrad Tennis Club, which is a pop-up style social wellness club. For elite level tennis players. Very cool. Very cool. We get into that as well. And we'll also talk about what it was like navigating the post-college tennis landscape, leaving a traditional sort of high pressure career path, building a personal brand and making a career out of content creation, what he's learned about being on court with tour level pros and the club he's building for players in the post-college in-between space. Lots to get into. So sit back and enjoy. Hey guys. Hello. speaker-2: What's going on? speaker-1: How are ya? speaker-2: I'm great. Sorry, I've been kinda ghost. I've been traveling like crazy. gosh. speaker-0: Nice. speaker-2: I was in I was gone for a month door to door. So I've been living out of suitcase for a while. speaker-1: Ciao. speaker-2: Yeah. I did a wedding in I had a wedding in like Virginia and then I spent a week in New York and then two weeks Greece, Italy, and then another week in New York, and now I was back in LA. speaker-1: Jet lagged or? speaker-2: Yeah, I don't even know what time zone I'm supposed to think about. speaker-1: Fair enough. That's fun though. It was fun. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I'm assuming you went to the US Open then? speaker-2: I did, yeah, that's why I went back to New York 'cause I had some work content stuff with the open. Gotcha. which was like unbelievable, so much fun. speaker-1: I got speaker-2: but yeah, I ended up being able to go to the semifinals, the men's semifinals, which was yeah, such such cool experience. speaker-1: Unreal. Well, what's your take on the whole like influencer stuff at the US Open since you are a content creator? speaker-2: I know. Gosh, they really botched it for us, didn't they? Yeah. I mean, I'm a tennis player first. So like I know the etiquette. I know how to be discreet about it. Most of my content in general is like I I never try to be over the top, invasive. Like I always try to be, you know, pretty Just buttoned up w when it comes to that kind of stuff. But yeah, they they just went completely over the top. Like zero etiquette. I mean it was it was kind of a two influencers. Yeah. Hardwatch for sure. speaker-0: Yeah. Well I also like along the same lines of the ticket prices just being absolutely insane 'cause now the US Open is just the trendy place to be. Like I I grew up in New Jersey, so I I grew up going to the open every year and I remember like you would go in and just be pure like tennis fans and it was just so awesome. And I haven't been back since before college, but like it's just different, which is fine. Like tennis is being promoted more, but there's also kind of these other things that come along with it. So speaker-2: It's almost like it's the consequence of tennis getting so mainstream now is that it's speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: ruining it for the traditional tennis fans. But like, I don't know, people are gonna pay for it, I guess. Every match is still booked out, but it it sucks. Like the only reason I was able to go is 'cause I got c I got it covered. Like I wouldn't pay that much to go to the team, but speaker-1: No, brutal. Yeah, it is brutal. Honestly, there is a huge difference between like a tennis influencer and just like a social influencer, I feel like, you know. I feel like they they got it. They got it. speaker-2: Definitely, definitely. Yeah. The the ones that know tennis. Yeah. I think it's a it's probably I just saw a headline today that the US Open had a hundred credit accredited influencers this year and it was like double the amount from last year. So I think it's a US open market problem. Like if they're choosing the right tennis influencers, should be no issue. Like if I was on that list, I'd know how to handle it. Guys like Ben Johnson, the tennis one on one, he's probably the biggest like male tennis influencer, who I know pretty well too. Like he he does a good job. He he knows tennis etiquette 'cause he's a player. So I think they probably have to fix who they're inviting and like actually vet to make sure these people know tennis. speaker-1: Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Well, cause hasn't Wimbledon like already banned influencers now? I I saw that. speaker-2: Yeah. And I'm like, I'm yeah, I believe it. If that's like I wanna think that's probably true because they they just they're like the most, you know, buttoned up and classy too. So they they wouldn't want any of this. It's not worth it. Yeah. I my solution for the USDA next year is like let's vet your influencer list properly and it will be no problem. speaker-0: Yeah. I'll sign off on that petition if you want to start it, Josh. speaker-1: No, for sure. I know you went to UNCW, how how was that? Did you go all four years to UNCW? Yeah, yeah. speaker-2: Years. yeah, it was I mean, such an awesome like college experience. College tennis just completely shaped me who I am as a person and it was some of the best years of my life for sure. Like you guys know, still some of my closest friends in life. I have like s four weddings next year. They're all teammates. so I'm in like three. Yeah. it was great. It was so so much fun. I mean, you guys you guys know how it is. I'm sure wake was hopefully a good experience for you, but Yeah, I miss I definitely miss the college tennis environment. but it it taught me it taught me a lot about myself. tennis in general, but also like college tennis. And I think it's a big part of why I'm actually doing content, which is sort of a weird like pipeline to that. But I've sort of spent a lot of time thinking about it retroactively. And it's like doing content feels a lot like tennis. It's sort of this solo like endeavor and sport where pressure's on me to like produce and actually make a career out of it. And I think that's why I actually like it a lot because it feels very similar to tennis in that way. and I've just as a tennis player, which you guys know, like I I like that pressure when it's on me to perform more than like you know trying to perform for somebody else. And I even had sort of a difficult mixed relationship with like my coach, my college coaches. Just it was it was awkward for me to like play for somebody else when my whole life in tennis it was like it's a selfish sport. Like I was playing for me. Yep. And then, you know, I I love playing for my teammates, but it was weird having a a boss, so to speak. And like sometimes that relationship is a little bit strained if I'm being like honest and thinking back on it. But Yeah, it's it's just funny to think about it now, how tennis really shaped the way that I do life because I'm kind of a tennis player first, which is why I do content. And then I get to choose like who I want to work with, which is sort of like choosing who I wanna play with and who I want to like team up with. It's been a weird but like great journey. speaker-0: Yeah, and I'm I'm really interested to to hear more about it because you you did IB right after college first, right? So like first of all, how did you fall into investment banking? Cause I and I know like speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: kids in college really want to do that. And then what was that lifestyle actually like? How did you like realize all the skills that you learned through college tennis in that? And then the next part of the question is like, how did you pivot from that into content creation? speaker-2: Yeah, so banking was it was strictly at the time what can I get into that's just the highest paying and hardest most sought after career in finance. You guys know this, I'm gonna say this a lot. Coming from tennis, like you know how to grind, you know how to push yourself. Yeah. It's such like a self-driven you you just you learn how to the work ethic is unmatched. You learn how to motivate yourself and just like push yourself to the max. So I was always just thinking, what's the hardest thing that I can do? the most sort of elite, like, you know, I'm really reaching for you know, the stars here. And with finance, it was banking. Like that that was that was it. And I wasn't coming from like a an Ivy League target school. Like nobody hardly even knows who UNCW is. these investment banks. So for me that was a cool challenge of okay, you're telling me like I can't do that. Like I'll figure out how to do that. And I basically just bullied my way persistently into like letting an investment bank basically like getting them to hire me. and so I liked it for the challenge and I liked just the grind at the time. Did it for a few years, realized along the way that it even though I can do that work and I can do that type of job, doesn't mean I should. And there's a whole figuring out sort of who I am in my twenties and as an adult and really thinking deeply about okay, what do I value in life? Is this really aligned with me ethically and morally? I really got sort of disgusted with how that whole environment was, how people treated each other, how it was just scraping fees and then ditching clients and moving on. And it's the whole the whole li sort of lifestyle and ethics of that industry is very much what you see in the movies and what everybody talks about. It's just a money grab and it's like it it it didn't align with like who I was. And then on top of that, I was just getting so stressed out from a million different people at once. You know, if you're on five, ten different deals with a team of like four or five people, each trying to pitch to a hundred different private equity clients. I'm like answering to a hundred different people every given day before I like think about myself. Yeah. So I was like last on the list of hundreds of people. And so the stress was like crazy and it actually it got pretty dark. Like I developed like this autoimmune disease as a result of this chronic illness. So I was like when I say like the stress was literally killing me, like I was in and out of the hospital. And and This was like three or four years in, and I was just looking at this long term, like, okay, this is not sustainable. Like, what am I doing? Yeah. so shift towards the positive side of things. I started doing content as like an outlet, really. I I made a lot of music and I've always been like a very creative person. Actually, like wrote, produced, like recorded like five or six songs when I was like my twenties and like put them on Spotify. So I was like very much like into music and production and singing and rapping and all that stuff and I was like, all right, how do I how do I promote this? So I just started making content. 'cause I kinda knew that I had to and and it was a fun outlet. And then I fell in love with content for the sake of content and just like loved always loved making videos and and wanted to just dive deeper into that. And then it kind of kind of started to like build a little bit and I was like, all right, like I wonder if I can monetize this as like a side hustle. Mm-hmm while I was basically falling out of banking and interviewing for other jobs, which was sort of a next step after banking. So private equity, corporate finance, just, you know, I needed to leave banking, but I was afraid to like fully cut it off. So I was interviewing and I was giving myself goals to hit with content. And I said, okay, let me do three months full in on content. I'll keep interviewing, but if I hit my financial goal by month three, And figuring out how to monetize content, whatever that means for me, then I'll keep going. And month three, I hit my goal of that I set for myself, which is like a basically a 10k a month goal. So if I like if this is sustainable as like a salary. Yeah. And then I was like, all right, I'll do another three months. And then another three months go by and each month was bigger. And then I had in that process two job offers. One Go to private equity and work as like an associate and one to do a corporate finance like similar just role. And I those were huge pivotal moments where I turned down both of them. Yeah. And a lot of people probably thought it was crazy at the time. Cause I was like, they didn't even know what I was doing. They just like knew that I wasn't banking anymore. Yeah. Luckily I had a lot of support from my family. They just wanted me to be happy and they sort of trusted that I'd be able to like figure something out. And I've always had This like belief that I doesn't really matter like what I do, like I know I'll I'll figure it out. And I think a lot of that comes from tennis. and so the short of it is kept setting those goals, kept hitting them, and then soon enough it got to the point where I was making more than the job offers that were coming in. Granted, it's a entrepreneurial route, nothing's guaranteed, but it sort of was this like almost slow progression of okay. Now my lifestyle is fantastic. Yes, I'm doing this crazy new thing that like is seems really uncertain, but I sort of structured it in a way that felt like it had some stability to it, where I was hitting like, you know, monthly goals and I I had proof of concept that this was financially viable before I gave up on interviewing and taking like a job job. Right. And so that was like three years ago. And then in the last two years, it sort of just like I I really my reps like anything and I figured out I'm still figuring out how to do it better and better. And I a hundred percent believe it's like anything ten thousand hours like you just need reps and you can build this skill and get better at it and it's turned into a whole career. And now it's like I can't imagine doing anything else 'cause doors that open with this as I lean further into it are insane. Yeah. So it's been it's been a a really interesting journey. speaker-1: that's awesome. And it's funny because I also feel like that's such an athlete way to think about things, like setting goals for yourself. So you've almost transferred that whole identity into this in itself, you know. But how how did you figure out, you know, you obviously have the tennis side to it and that's your whole background, but how did you sort of build into that and build into like your own personal brand? Like how did you decide what type of content within tennis was gonna work for you? speaker-2: Yeah, it's funny. I didn't start doing tennis content till like a little bit later, maybe a year plus ago. And I I think what I've come to the conclusion now, it took a lot of time, is that I don't want to niche down into any one type of content. I've really tried to make my personal brand me as much as I can so that I can pivot between a lot of different things because candidly I have a ton of different hobbies, interests. skills, like things that I, you know, I'd like to showcase. And so I've made it really intentional to have my personal brand just be me through and through. And so I let tennis in because tennis is a huge part of me, but I would never define myself as a tennis influencer only. I think I really try to make content with in line with like what I'm doing in real time in life. So like I just spent a month traveling across Europe. I made a ton of travel content. Right. Right. Before that, I was doing a lot of like hitting partner stuff at Indian Wells early this year where I was training with the pros and I played with like a bunch of the top players. And so I had you know a few months of like I was in tennis mode. so the choice kind of came out of this almost fear of like I don't want to get too niche because I've done that in the past and it feels very limiting as a creator where I'm like Now I have to just keep making this style of content. It's almost scary. and so I at some point I was like, screw it, I'm just gonna let like the floodgates open and really just make content about my entire life and try to be as open and vulnerable as possible, sharing my thoughts, like talking to the camera content so that people can connect with me. And then it doesn't really matter what I'm doing. hopefully like I will build the right audience that sticks around for me first and then what I'm doing second. speaker-0: Yeah, that's that's actually really interesting that you say that 'cause even at work, I work at Walls Fargo right now. so corporate. But like even even speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Like even but even like job wise or career wise, people are always talking about like getting super specialized versus being like a jack of all trades, right? And I've actually been having a lot of conversations about this recently, but it seems like the people who like put themselves into a box limit themselves, like you were saying, right? Like as to where they can go. Like you the higher you go in an organization, the the less opportunities there are. There's only so many CFO. Positions open in the world, right? Yeah. so I think it's really interesting that you chose to kind of like not become super niche and and just kind of see like where you can start spreading and growing. But like how did you start getting into cause now like there's all the brand deals and and like can you explain more of like how does content actually turn into income and again like yeah, like how you thought about going about that? speaker-2: Definitely. yeah, I think the the effort to not niche down was also very much like a strategic business move for me. And I'll go back to sort of the how to monetize content, how I got into that in comes income side side of things. But I realized the more varied content that I do the more brand opportunities, brand partnerships I have. Because if I make tennis content, I can partner with Wilson, USO, whatever. And if I'm making my running, you know, CrossFit health and wellness content, I can partner with, you know, Brooks running shoes or hopefully like a Nike one day or Whoop. Like the more that I've have diverse content, the more brand partnership opportunities and thus income. opportunities there are instead of just being super hyper niche. but to back up on like how this all started, it it was also a big part of this was timing. like anything, it was very good timing for me to get in on this as sort of a a you know a male in their twenties, thirties now. there weren't as many doing content full time, but specifically UGC was a big part of it for me in the beginning. user generated content. It's basically just the social ads that you see when you're scrolling through your phone, not posted on my personal page, but like when you're just clicking through socials, you get ads. Those are all user generated content ads. And that took off a couple of years ago, really byproduct of COVID, where it's kind of the new form of commercials. and creators are starting to get hired to make content, social ads from home without having huge following. So that's kind of how I started was like Okay, I built a small following and brands started to hire me to do UGC because they liked my you know style, my aesthetic, my delivery, my ability to like storytell and basically help them with their their ads. And it's funny because like looking back, I started like my first UGC video was like $50 for like one video. And I just was like, okay, I'm just gonna hustle and grind this thing and build it. because I saw a bunch of other creators doing it. And I built a I started getting a few ads under my belt and then built a portfolio so that I could sort of showcase the partnerships that I'd done. And then the second part of my work at the time is building my personal brand. So as I was hustling and doing UGC ads, every day I was doing that half the time and then building my personal brand. making my own content. so I was making two different types of content every day. And as I grew my personal brand and did more social ads, I was able to up my rates and my following was growing. And so then went from fifty dollar videos to maybe two hundred, three hundred dollar videos to five hundred dollar videos to a thousand dollar videos. And then I was like, okay, I just have to do like one video a day and you know on the client side and I can make good good income. Yeah. And then it just I just kept hammering both every single day. And now it's at the point where I have almost two hundred thousand followers across platforms, mostly on Instagram. Yeah. And I've charged single video campaigns as much as five, six grand. and it's just the like anything, going through the growing pains, but willing to sort of chip away from the bottom and just work your way up. I literally went from fifty dollars a video. I went through every single price point until now I can demand a really healthy rate. And also the personal brand has grown just with getting better content, which is just I've posted thousands of videos. You figure out what works, you you understand, and you tweak. Right. Like if something works, you lean into it. and there's a whole nother side of developing like a personal content strategy. And sort of having these pillars of my content and my personal brand that work, tennis being one of them, sort of travel being one of them. There's a lot of different things that fit within my brand. But it's always been building the personal brand is driving the business. And now it's turned into more traditional, like influencer brand partnerships, which are a lot bigger. I'm posting on my own feed. as I grew, I had agencies start to reach out. I signed with an agency this year. So now there's like agency negotiation power involved, which is taking it to a whole new level because if you have a reputation, you can demand way higher rates. And I speak about all this like just to be fully transparent. Like I I don't care to like, you know, gloat or boast about like how much I'm making. It's just like I like to share exactly how it works and like what I'm actually doing from a creator standpoint so that people can understand like. You can start with UGC and work your way up to like influencer status and then start doing big brand partnerships. And that's basically like the that's the exact trajectory that I've been on. and it gets even crazier after that because now with like representation, like there's other things that have opened up that I can't even talk about yet. But like great like streaming service, like acting, commercials, shows, like all that is now on the table as a result of doing like 10. so there's so much opportunity and this is what I said earlier about the more you lean in, the more doors that just like start to open. speaker-1: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I think that's all fantastic advice for anyone that's actually trying to get into this stuff because I feel like a lot of people don't really know where to start, you know. speaker-2: UGC is a great place to start. Yeah. It's a little has sort of a mixed connotation because it can be a little like tacky and stuff sometimes. But it's I sort of view it as you go through being an analyst in banking and you just sort of like you do sort of the the bottom of the barrel like job. Like you can work your way up to being like a managing director. You just have to go through it. if you're willing to sort of put yourself through a little bit of that. like embarrassment and like uncomfortable stage of starting out as a creator, like then you get to a point where everyone's like, how are you doing it? Like I wanna do it too. Right. But like who's gonna who's gonna start and actually be willing to be embarrassed? speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: It's like if it was easy everyone would would do it and be successful at it and they're not. So speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: There's there's always a grind to it. It's like if you're playing line six in college tennis and you gotta work your way up, you know. So you're you you know, you you know all about that. But I am curious with with having such a widespread range of content and you know, constantly uploading, constantly, you know, being on socials, do you ever get any sort of like burnout or anything? speaker-2: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I took a month off and just went traveling. I mean, granted, I was making a lot of content along the way, but it like fun and different and it was the content that I really enjoy making. But yeah, you you get so in your head and I will work I've I work harder at this than I did in banking, but it's the the thing that I've realized about being a creator and an entrepreneur. Whatever you want to call it is in theory, you could work endlessly because you can you're doing the only thing you're doing is just creating work for yourself and creating opportunities. So it's like if I finish like the my work for the day, I could just start creating more content and keep working because I know that that's gonna give me more opportunities. And it's like, where do you draw the line? You actually it can get really dangerous where you just completely work yourself into oblivion. 'Cause there is no there is no end to it. And that's been one of the big things I've sort of figured out how to like basically stabilize this thing and grow it. And it's like it's doing well, thankfully. It's it's awesome. But towing that line of like, am I pushing myself like too hard? And remembering that I'm doing this such that I can have a lifestyle that I want. And remember that like I need to take time for myself because that's why I'm doing all this. It's 'cause I didn't want to like, you know, be a part of the corporate God was doing before and that that whole lifestyle. So yeah, it's it's the more creators that I get to know and talk to, they all experience the same thing. You're constantly it's almost like as you get bigger, you feel this pressure to perform even more. And then it's like you end up working more and and even harder. So s so Setting boundaries with myself is something I'm working on, like as of more recently. speaker-0: And I bet like again, like you said, having these really cool opportunities that you actually enjoy doing probably helps with that burnout too of like for example, like the the hitting with tour players, right? Like I'm sure that kind of feels less like a job and more of like a wow, like this is me going back to my tennis roots or you know, like just just going out there, having fun. how did you even end up in that position to become a a practice partner? Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, a lot of people ask it 'cause it's kind of a weird like niche tennis thing. But I always say it's it's three things. One, you have to have a level. Like you guys know, like you you have to be probably a good college player or beyond performer. and then number two is keeping up with it. 'Cause a lot of a lot of good players they just don't play anymore. So like my brother and I, we both played it UNCW together. We both still play a ton. We train. we've played tournaments. Like we're we're still very much playing a lot of tennis these days. And then the third thing is like anything, just sort of bumping shoulders with the right people. And I'd done some hitting partner stuff at the City Open before, because I grew up in DC and then sort of used that and leveraged it to pitch myself for this, Indian Wells hitting partner stuff. But just being in LA in in the tennis scene and then now like in the creator sort of tennis space and having a little bit more publicity. I've just kind of gotten to know that the whole tennis community here in LA. Not the whole tennis community, but like a big part of it. And so I I sort of yeah just like bump shoulders with the right people and it was like basically hey like You know, we're we're looking for some more hitters. and I was like, Great, like let me put my tennis resume together and pitch you on it. Here's some videos of me actually doing it at City Open. And then, you know, like anything, once they realize that you're you know, you're good enough, you have the level, they're like, Okay, like yeah, we'll we'll bring you out. But even then, they they were kind of watching like first few hits just to make sure like is this guy actually like what we signed up for? and then luckily the first couple of hits went well. They're like, Okay, like speaker-0: I was gonna say that's gotta be nerve wracking though, 'cause like I mean, I don't know, I would get so in my head and I I actually I watched your I think it was your video with FAA where you were like, Yeah, we just got out there, no warm up, just started railing balls. I I think I would miss every ball again. Like I I and I would never get a a call back. Like speaker-1: No. speaker-2: It's like the most fight or flight thing I think I've ever experienced in my life. And watching the videos, it's funny because I look at the videos or I'll even watch my brother do it because we do it together, which is awesome. speaker-0: cool. speaker-2: And I'm like, it doesn't look like a big deal or anything. It looks very much like, yeah, like it's just going out to hit. But then when I'm walking out to hit with like Kaboli like stadium court. It it feels like I'm walking into the lion's den and it's just it's it's like it's awesome because you don't feel too many things that intense and that euphoric, at least for me, like at this stage in life anymore. Like I feel like when you're growing up and you're adult, like everything's new. Yeah. And like in your college, like you're still like experiencing a lot of new stuff. And so yeah, it's it it makes me feel like a kid again entirely, but It's such a pressure cooker and it's the biggest like sinker swim moment where you you know, you start warming up and it's like it even in just from short court to like backing up, like if you miss like one shot, you're like, Yeah, I can't again. And then if you miss two, you're like, speaker-1: Literally. speaker-2: like you you're just towing this line of like I just I have to hang on. Yeah. Yeah. And like I I gotta try to stay even. And as soon as it starts to wobble, you're like, f and then you might like fall off entirely. And then it's like this this practice is shot. But if you can if you can just hang on and match them, you find I talk about this in a lot of my videos, you sort of find this next gear that they pull you up to. That you like because their ball is so good and clean and the same as you've ever seen. It's like it's just the perfect ball over and over. They you end up playing really, really well and you you know, if you play with the best people, like they're gonna raise your level. Right. and I sort of figured that out and it was like, okay, if you can survive those first few hits, then you start to trust like I'm gonna go out there and play fantastic because these guys just they they give you the best ball ever. And so then you develop like a confidence of I can do this. And then you actually level up. And and it's like I swear the the training block that we did with them for two weeks like made me More improvement than the last 10 years of my tennis career. Yeah. Like they just stuff hitting with them that you just could not fathom before. and you start to hit you start to emulate their ball. And it's like you almost get lost in thinking, am I am I actually playing this well or am I just like redirecting their pace and like I'm not actually this good? But speaker-0: Should I go pro? speaker-2: every day for Yeah, no, you start thinking like speaker-1: It's not that hard. speaker-2: Yeah, but like most of it also is you are just like using a lot of their pace, but I'm like my god, I am ripping the ball right now. Like I've never done this before. but yeah, it's there's so many levels to it. Yeah. So many levels to it. speaker-1: That's crazy. Yeah, it almost forces you to play up a little bit because I feel like even in like our careers you would see that. You know, you go play a moonballer and it's like, well, I I can't even create my own pace here. I don't know what to do. Whereas if you're playing, you know, top twenty five players in the world, you're probably not gonna play a moonballer. But no those Yeah, those we loved watching those videos. They were really it was really interesting how you kind of broke everything down, but was has there been a player that really stood out to you during a warm up that did anything crazy or out of the ordinary? speaker-2: I think the one that comes to mind is Medvedev, because I I hit with him like four or five times now. And like I knew he had a flat ball, but I didn't know he literally hits ground strokes with underspin sometimes. His speaker-1: That's crazy. speaker-2: backhand is a slice like flat stroke and it's just a laser of a ball and it it's hard to to get used to. And I talk about this in my videos. you sort just have to like slap it back flat at him. because I can't be there like trying to like you know rip the ball with spin and like have some sort of level of safety yeah to my stroke when he's like lasering this literally like a slice flat ground stroke at me. and so I just I just end up s absolutely slapping a ball flat. But then like this is what I'm saying where if you especially if you get a second hit with them and you you get used to their ball. If you can sort of hang on and figure it out, you end up emulating their ball a little bit. And so then I just started I just started slapping the ball at Medvedev and I was like in a rhythm and I like wasn't missing. And obviously you add movement and stuff and point play, it's way different. But like straight up I was like able to just smack it and absolutely slap and stay in the rally, like not miss. so they sort of unlock things for you if you can hang on past you know, the first five or ten minutes. But Medvedev's the most like there hit there's so many things about practicing with him that were insane. His his attitude was hilarious. Like he was so fun to hit with because he would start he would start grunting and like you would start grunting and he would start like grunting louder as if he's like kind of playing with you. And it's like and then if you slap like a good child or something, he's super supportive. He's like, like great shot man. Like I was speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: And he just makes it fun. He's just back there like grudging like we're just training together, having a fun time. which I didn't expect 'cause some guys are a little bit more stone cold and not really involving you right in it. and he he very much like appreciates every hitting partner and like if you hit a good shot, he's gonna gas you up and like tell you like that was sick. So it's just a just a fun, entertaining time with him always on court. And then like he'll also try some crazy shit. Like when you're hitting, he'll just out of nowhere just do like a two handed like slice drop shot that like bounces back over onto your side and he's just like speaker-0: Of course he does. speaker-2: he's like looking, he's like if he makes it he's like let's go. And I'm like, You're just playing against me. Like speaker-1: He seems like a character in a house. speaker-2: He's such a character and like there was one practice where his his match against Mickelson, like Mickelson defaulted in the first game 'cause he got sick. And so Medvedev didn't get his match that day. So they called me out to go like instantly. They were like, Medvedev needs like a practice right now, like go to like center court or whatever, or like the the main practice court anything wells with like, you know, thousands of people. Yeah. Okay, like I'm gonna sprint out there and see what happens. like no prep. And I got out there, we hit for like five minutes and his coach was like, You've you've played a few times today and I was like, Yeah. I think I had like one or two hits or whatever. But and that and then we warm up and then Medvedev comes up to the net and he's like, All right, well you wanna play some sets and play some point play? And I was like speaker-1: Sure, sure. speaker-0: Like not really, but okay. speaker-2: He's like, All right, monster first. I was like, Yeah. It's speaker-1: Yes, please. speaker-2: like he needed like an hour and a half at least of just straight up point play and set play because he didn't get it. Right. This match got canceled. So now I'm like the one that has to give him like his match play for the day. I'm just like thousands of people in the stands too. Literally the the whole stadium that went to go watch him just build into the stands because they wanted to watch like speaker-0: Fresher. speaker-2: step yeah, I'm I'm like stepping up there like literally love all like to serve and I'm just like I have to like hold my own against Medvedev like what and so that was the most sinkers to a moment where honestly I just like kinda went into like flow state and thankfully it went right well and I played probably the best like tennis ever. That's great. I watched the video back and he's again he's going full out, like trying to beat me. And it it felt like for that hour and a half that I was like there to play Medvedev and like he was there to play me. And like we were just actually trying to beat each other and like I just I couldn't register like what was going on. Like he's grunting, he's like screaming, come on, he's getting pissed when he like misses or loses a point. His coach is like coaching him like when I'm when he was like in between and telling him like what he needs to do better. And I'm just back there like, What is going on? Like in real life. speaker-0: Where's your where's my coach? speaker-1: I don't want to tap in here, like speaker-2: yeah, it was crazy. But it was cool 'cause the the fans in the back were all like they didn't know who the hell I was. Whatever. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: Like, let's get behind the speaker-1: This poor guy. Yeah. that's speaker-2: And then you start to think like th this and this little this training environment where you're playing with them, it kinda messes with your head 'cause you're like, again, should I like go play? Like am I am I like a tournament level player now? Yeah. it's this fake reality where you're basically on tour for like two weeks, like semi on tour. Like you're you're doing everything they're doing, you're in the locker room with them, like you're practicing with them. It's like everything's shy of actually playing the match. And it's It's like this fake reality. And then you come back to normal life and it's this huge come down. And it's like the hardest thing to transition. speaker-1: Yeah, what an experience. Yeah, would be weird 'cause you almost do get that adrenaline rush like you would in a normal match. my god. You know? Yeah. speaker-2: Sure. speaker-0: Yeah, Matty's one of my favorite players. He's speaker-1: So fun. speaker-0: so funny. He's hilarious. Speaking of Wake, did you see at the Winston Salem Oven he was debating go going to play pickleball? speaker-1: That video was so good. speaker-2: I feel like every two months we're just due for an insane Medvedev clip on speaker-0: A hundred percent. Yeah. speaker-1: A hundred percent. No, I he's got a great personality. Yeah, I think we also wanted to get into a little bit of the postgrad tennis club stuff. You know, I I always say to Anya, because we talk about like hitting and stuff, you know, post college and all of them, we're like, my god, like I can't even hit because my shoulder's killing me so much at this point. but you know, we'll hit once or twice a week. But I just love getting a good hit in. Like I don't necessarily need that competition anymore. You know what I mean? And and I feel like I just want good points, I want good hits, good drills, whatever it is. And I want people that want to kind of do the same thing. That's always that's something that I kind of yearn for now at this stage of my life, now that I'm like four years out of playing college tennis. So I'm I'm really curious about the post grad tennis club. So can you kind of give our listeners a little rundown of what it is and kind of where you're at with building it out. speaker-2: Yeah, so that postgrad tennis club sort of just came out of a viral viral deal. And there's something I've been thinking about for a while because I've been in LA for like seven plus years, sort of navigating the post grad tennis life where you're done with college, you maybe played a little bit, but like you're not playing full on anymore. And it's just this weird hustle to try to find people to hit with. because it's not like it used to be. It's it's yeah you have to create practices for yourself and and sometimes it's it's difficult. But yeah, I mean I've had a few, I've had a handful, maybe not even like two or three people in my twenties, my brother being one of them, who I hit with regularly and I'm like, this is somebody who I know when we go out play, we can just have like an intense college like practice where we're really getting the most out of it and it's somebody who enjoys the grind just as much as I do, just for the sake of like having a good workout, getting some competitive points in and like feeling a little bit of, you know, what you used to feel, but without fully playing or committing to a tournament or a league or futures qualifying or something where it's just like, okay, this is like going full on into it, but like I'm an adult working, you know, jobs and stuff. Want to do that. And so there's only like I said, there's only been a few people where we just have the best, you know, college style hits. And I started to realize that like n there's sort of a lack of structure around organizing for that and and having yes, there's there's USTA leagues, like I said, there's money tournaments, but all of these things are really committal. There's weird pressures to it. It's still like this junior. tournament environment, but now you're like thirty and it's like what do we be doing? Like weird. speaker-1: So speaker-2: Why are we why are we getting into these heated like USTA five O plus doubles like screen matches over like a wall? Like it's just so I've done it and it's gotten to the point where I feel like I'm forcing myself to sign up for leagues and play tournaments so that I can just get out what I want out of tennis, which is a little bit of competition, but like just a good workout and like having good level players to hit with. And so I'm kind of now working on this idea of doing a a pop up style tennis social club where it's elite level players and there's a lot of awesome tennis social clubs that have popped up all over the States in the last couple of years, but most of them are geared towards like all levels. And it's like, like if you just look at this and you sort of like the aesthetic and you want to play and that's great. Like it I love that that stuff is happening because it's really good for tennis. Yeah. But there is nothing quite out there yet. I mean, I've seen some things start to develop, but what's missing is where do you put all the X D one college players and even pro players? Like where do they get to get together and have like a run club for tennis? Right. and I think it can be done without having to have a brick and mortar club, which is the biggest hold up, is like Pickball, that's easy because you you can fit a million people on like the tiny little space. But tennis, you would need a lot of courts and that's expensive. But I think with the current state of pop up events, content, social media, you can host these pop up social tennis club events at clubs all over the place and sort of make it this traveling you know, social pop up event where it's like post grad tennis club is is in, you know, LA, is in Miami, is in New York, is in Chicago this weekend. You just gather all the college tennis players from those areas, get them to sign up for maybe one to two day sort of event and you can attach a bunch of different brands to it. You can get the social sorry, you can get the wellness aspect involved with like a sauna and a cold plunge company to partner with them basically the idea is to make a tennis wellness pop-up club where it's like let's play for an hour or two and then we'll go sauna and cold plunge and like eat some food and chill and network and like socialize and have a few different a few different groups sort of staggered such so that you can have like a full day event and you can get like you know maybe 75 people in total at each event and Right now I'm structuring it out with the programming. my agent's actually helping. We're we're getting some sponsors together to host what will be the first event this fall in in LA. yeah, I kinda wanna get like one killer event down and just get some learnings and then like figure out how to replicate it from there. But the cool thing is the demand is there. Like I I made a couple of videos and I had I had people reaching out from like the ITA, like ITF, the USTA, dozens of clubs all over the country that were like, Yes, like please we'll host you. Hundreds of players that signed up. I've made like one on a whim sign up forum and I just had like hundreds of people sign up. So clearly I was like, the demand's there. Yeah. But I just gotta like kinda execute now and put it together. speaker-1: Hey, there's there's plenty of ex college players yearning for this. speaker-0: Yeah. Well, I was gonna say, like, 'cause I remember Peyton when you were doing your like dissertation for your masters and we were kinda talking about similar things, like one of the things that I was really feeling like early on in my career too, right after I moved to Charlotte, was like I always lacking that like sense of community from tennis, like more so than the actual competing personally. But like I was like I'm not I like you said, I'm not gonna go sign up for like tournaments or these like random leagues where it's a really wide variety of players and there's a gazillion people on a court, you know, like so speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: this sounds really, really like cool to me. Like not just, you know, hitting or just practice sessions, but more of that social wellness aspect. And again, like you get a network and it's good for like a just making friends, right? Or, you know, furthering your career depending on who you who you meet, and just getting that sense of community. So yeah, I really hope it comes to Charlotte at some point. How do people get involved if they wanna like join or eventually bring it to their city? Is there I know you said you're just focusing on that first event right now, but what are the the next steps looking like? speaker-2: Yeah, I created a a couple of social accounts for it. So at this point it would really be following the the Instagram postgrad tennis club and then there's a form and a link in bio to sign up. And it's sort of just a like how do you want to get involved? Are you a player? Are you somebody who wants a sponsor or a club that wants to host? and right now building out that list of contacts so that when we do replicate it in other cities, I'll sort of have an easy you know, pipeline of of people to to help organize it around. So that's probably the best way for sure. speaker-1: Yeah. I do think it's great just because college players are coming from such a team environment. So going from that to just being by yourself individual all day, like, you know, nine to five, whatever, it would be great just to have that sort of event to go to and just be around like fellow tennis players. And we all have very similar experiences and very similar backgrounds. So you can actually like relate and have a good time, you know? speaker-2: And that's the goal, right? Like you if you played college tennis, like without even talking to you, like we just have an incredible amount of overlap and experience. And sort of like you know the person already. We all went through the junior tennis tournaments, we're all different college, like we have such similarities in our lives before even saying a word. And it's just like having that commonity. and common ground, it's just nice to feel like you're with sort of your people, even if you don't really know them. speaker-1: Yeah. And let's be real, like no one wants to do a junior tennis tourn tournament format at thirty years old. Like that's not appealing to me whatsoever. speaker-2: It's it's humbling, you know. I was playing some some men's tournaments, men's open tournaments two summers ago and it was you know just the typical like open money tournament, but it's formatted exactly yeah, exactly like DJ tournament. And I was just having a trouble in my mind like I feel ridiculous for doing this, but also like now that I'm in it, like I want to win this thing. Yeah. And then like speaker-0: We got like thirty year olds hooking each other. speaker-2: Yeah, that's that's literally what was happening. Like I I was like this is just so weird. Like I feel like a kid but I shouldn't be here, but Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Like I like winning but I don't know if it's worth speaker-1: Right. Yeah, the competitive side always comes out. Anya, didn't you play one like recently? speaker-0: Yeah, I was supposed to play tournament this past weekend actually. So for background, Josh, I graduated three years ago because I did my masters. I did my COVID year. I've picked up a racket maybe six times since then. And I decided to sign up for a doubles tournament with my friend this past weekend. But Peyton, it got canceled because too man we had enough we had like a draw and everything and then somehow like eighty percent of the teams withdrew so they didn't have enough teams for the for the draw. So yeah. I wanted that three hundred bucks. Yeah. speaker-1: That sucks. I'm not going back to the to the USTA, USTA level, but I would do the postgrad tennis club. I would do that a hundred percent. so yeah, definitely would look forward to that. But one thing we've been asking everyone kind of at the end of the episodes, whether this is if you know you're a hitting partner, whether this was in college or just everyday life, do you have any weird superstitions? speaker-2: Yes, I think every time the player does. Yep. speaker-1: No. speaker-2: Really I definitely which one we want to talk about. I think a lot of people my age definitely grew up with like some of the Nadal antics of just having like bottles and stuff perfect. But I'll say one that is maybe a little bit O C D is I so when I s when I step up to the line the serve, I have to bounce the ball three times inside the the service line. but it can't like can't touch the line. So like it's like if you're if you're serving you're looking down and your foot's like on you know just on the line, it's gotta be three times in front without touching a line. So if like the first bounce happens to touch a line, I gotta like start over. speaker-0: You're speaker-2: Well, speaker-0: like Zverith bouncing it twenty times. Since our podcast is called Yips and Giggles, have you ever had the Yips on any stroke? speaker-2: Ooh, you know, I had it once where I can like vividly s remember and say like I had to be upset that day. And it was only once actually. speaker-0: You're you're one of the lucky ones. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, like it was so tight that I'll never I'll never forget it. I was actually it was like I was playing one and two the whole season, like my junior year. The highest I played, like it was some of the highest best tennis I played. and I was playing two that day against like UNC G, like UNC Greensboro or something. Like Yeah, on on paper, like very winnable match for us. Good good sort of more of a last more match before conference. And I was upset and I think there was a lot of pressure at that time because I had lost like six matches in a row at one. god. And I I just could not get like our our team at that point in the year, there was no w number one player. Like I was very much like a a three, like four player, but everyone was the same. So our coach just kept like trying to figure out who the hell's gonna play one. We didn't have to start. And so I took I took that was just like the sacrifice that year and just played one and lost like a ton. great and that was two and I was like it was the match before conference and I was like, Okay, I have to win this or else like I don't know where I'm gonna be in the lineup or like what's gonna happen. Yeah. And I just got so tight on my forehand that I I couldn't I was upset in the break and I just I couldn't hit it. Like I I literally I s it started to just I forgot like my stroke tech technique and I I couldn't even take the racket back without feeling like it my god my like the racket's gonna like fall out of my hand and I remember I was up a set in the break and I hit a forehand like into the ground. speaker-1: Yeah. That's the worst. speaker-2: Nowhere out of nowhere it had gotten to the point where I was like, my god. And and I was like trying to fake it like everything was fine. And I basically started running around and hitting just backhands. Cause I didn't want I didn't want him to see it but I just coach to figure out that I had just lost it. And so I spent the next set like slice forehands and literally hitting inside out backhands and just completely hiding this whole existence over here. I couldn't I couldn't even get and I was able to just gut my way through it with this the ugliest tennis ever. Yep. And and then like then I it just I don't know. After that I was I was so it was so bad in the match that I'd never hit like a low like that ever since. And it it was it was fine afterwards. But I thought I forgot how to hit a forehand. speaker-1: It's a humbling experience. speaker-2: Imagine playing one all year and like I was like a 13 like five UTR and I was like, I can't hit a foreign. I'm done. It was so weird. speaker-1: You're like, I'm a fraud. I can't do this. speaker-2: Totally. speaker-0: I mean it's just insane though. Like I had I had the yips on my backhand, so like it it just felt like my arms were like jelly. Yeah, I I l like it. It speaker-2: I like that. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: would hit the ground, it would hit the fence, like it was so bad. Bad speaker-1: Yeah, I I was I was more of Josh's experience if I literally would just slice forehands the entire inside hands speaker-0: Sliced hit inside out back in. speaker-1: and inside out backhands. But that but it lasted for like a year. Like not one not like one match. So that's also why I went into studying sports psychology because like there's gotta be a better way. Like there's gotta be a better way. We really appreciate you coming on, taking the time to chat with us. Thank you guys. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Thank you all for listening. Give us a follow here on Apple or Spotify. Or you can also watch our podcast videos on YouTube. You can also find us on our Instagram or TikTok at Yips and Giggles to see what we're up to. See you next week. And of course, in the meantime, don't take life too seriously and have a laugh on us.