Latest / EGGS! The Podcast / Eggs 460: Understanding stress through heart rate variability with Dr. Torkil Færø

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Eggs 460: Understanding stress through heart rate variability with Dr. Torkil Færø · EGGS! The Podcast

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to get dressed. And now, back to the show.
1:40
Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Eggs the
1:42
Podcast. Today's special guest is Torkel
1:44
Farrow or Doctor Torkel Farrow, sorry, the author of The Pulse
1:48
Cure and one of these guys that's going to help us all get
1:50
healthy and and better in 2025. I can use Torkel.
1:55
Welcome to the show, How are you man?
1:56
Thank you. I'm fine.
1:58
Perfect. Yeah.
1:59
Yeah, we all could use it. You know, we all need to stay in
2:02
shape and get our health balanced.
2:05
Yeah. Yeah, we think that's.
2:06
Great. So let's just kind of start at
2:08
the beginning. Oh, go ahead, Mike.
2:10
Oh, I was just going to say when the the you came in as a guest
2:14
suggestion and I saw the topic. I'm like both Ryan and I need to
2:17
talk to this guy. So let's let's set it up and
2:19
make it happen. Let's let's get a little bit of
2:23
your back story. Where are you from?
2:24
How did you how long you've been doing this?
2:27
Why'd you write the book? Yeah, I'm a Norwegian doctor.
2:31
I've been working as a General practitioner and emergency
2:35
physician for 26 years, all over Norway, always freelancing,
2:39
always working, you know, intensely for maybe 2 weeks and
2:43
then going with travelling and living, you know, adventurous
2:48
life. That was the intention of me
2:50
becoming a doctor, to live in that way.
2:52
But ten years ago my father died.
2:55
He was 73 and I understood that I needed to take more care of my
3:00
health because I wanted to live longer than that.
3:03
So I want to live as long as I can stay healthy, be productive,
3:07
perform. And somewhere along there that
3:10
story, I got the opportunity to write the book on how to use
3:15
wearables, how to use smartwatches and smart rings and
3:18
all the new technology that can help us stay healthy because our
3:23
heart rate can can reveal our stress levels, the intensity of
3:28
our lives. And as a doctor, I can see that
3:31
the modern day diseases, they have their, the root cause is
3:36
too much stress, too much inflammation in our bodies.
3:40
And this will also make your life quality lower and also the
3:47
prospects of living a long life lower.
3:49
So, So what is good for our health is good for our heart.
3:54
So now we have these variables that can show us what to do and
4:00
if we are managing it. Well, I think it's a really
4:02
interesting topic. I mean, you know, and I think,
4:05
or at least I haven't heard it broken down from the perspective
4:07
of, of heart rate variability, but I have heard.
4:11
So I, I recently lost a father to Parkinson's and in my
4:15
research, after he was initially diagnosed, I started spending a
4:17
lot of time learning about the disease and, and how it
4:20
progressed and all those sorts of things.
4:22
And one of the sort of, I think more modern or more recent
4:24
studies that I came across seems to think that there's maybe an
4:27
indication that it has something to do with cardiovascular
4:30
health, that there's actually a component of it that might have
4:33
something to do with, you know, hey, I don't know if it's
4:35
variability of heart rate necessarily, but you know, as a
4:38
general indicator of health, you know, your heart rate.
4:40
In my father's case, he'd had a stent and some other things done
4:43
over the years. And and so it kind of makes me
4:46
wonder, you know, how much of just his general health and
4:48
general demeanor may have contributed to this disease,
4:51
where if he kind of got a hold of it earlier on, maybe it
4:54
wouldn't have been as big an issue or maybe it may not have
4:57
materialized the way it did, I should say.
4:58
Yeah. So I wonder if we could talk a
5:00
little bit about it just as you know, as heart rate variability
5:03
as the measure for, you know, maybe long term disease or as a
5:06
precursor or a warning for future problems.
5:09
Yeah. And Parkinson is one of the many
5:12
diseases that have a connection with heart rate variability.
5:16
So if you Google Parkinson and heart rate variability, you will
5:19
see that before they get Parkinson's diagnosed, they will
5:23
have had a low heart rate variability.
5:26
And the reason why a low heart rate variability is connected to
5:30
9 out of the 10 deadliest diseases in the US is because
5:35
it's a sign that your immune system is suppressed.
5:39
It's under pressure, it's too much strain in the life of that
5:43
person with a low heart rate variability and the immune
5:45
system is not working properly. So we cannot deal with, you
5:50
know, keeping us out from the diseases of cancer, Parkinson,
5:55
dementia, heart disease, stroke and all of these other killers.
6:01
So, and heart rate variability, of course, for a lot of your
6:05
listeners, we have to explain what that is.
6:08
And it's not just the heartbeat in itself, the heart rhythm in
6:12
itself, which may be like 60 or 70 or 80 beats a minute.
6:17
The heart rate variability is the variation between
6:19
heartbeats. So if we are in the stress mode,
6:23
then the heart will beat very, very steadily like a metronome.
6:27
But if we are in the relaxed state, the recovery state where
6:32
all the kind of immune system will work better and the
6:35
recovery takes place, then there will will be a variation between
6:39
heartbeats. So that when we breathe in, the
6:42
heart rate goes up a little bit to take advantage of the extra
6:45
oxygen in the lungs. And when we breathe out and
6:48
there is less oxygen in the lungs, the heart rate will slow
6:51
down a little bit, but just a little bit, measured in
6:54
milliseconds, but detectable by the watches and the rings and so
6:58
on. So, so this way it can detect
7:02
you know whether we are too much stressed or if you are enough
7:06
time in the recovery mode. So the watches will be that
7:11
accurate to the millisecond where you could tell that your
7:14
your heartbeat was 1/10 of a second faster or or or how fast
7:19
it was. Yeah, Yeah.
7:20
So if it if it's a 10th of a second faster, that's very good,
7:24
you know, so, so that that would be kind of a top athlete would
7:27
have that kind of a difference, you know.
7:29
What kind of difference? What kind of variables are we
7:33
talking about? Are we talking about
7:35
microseconds or like? Milliseconds, milliseconds.
7:38
So, so for example, my heart rate variability is should be
7:44
around like 50 milliseconds. So that would be a 50
7:47
milliseconds difference between the heartbeats on average and a
7:53
top athlete, you know, could have, you know, 100 milliseconds
7:57
or even 150 milliseconds. So, but there's a, it's
8:02
important to say that there is a 50% genetic component to that.
8:06
So you shouldn't compare your heart rate variability to other
8:10
people's. So you should look at what your
8:13
heart rate variability is and try to improve it by improving
8:18
your sleep, cutting down on alcohol, exercising, finding the
8:23
right diet, and so on. Many of the tricks in my book
8:26
that is showing you how you can improve your heart rate
8:30
variability. OK.
8:32
So it's interesting too. So I guess I was thinking about
8:36
heart rate, So I'm glad you took the time to explain it.
8:38
I was thinking about heart rate variability as in, sorry, I'm
8:43
fighting off a cold here, so mine's probably a mess right
8:46
now. So, but I think when I think of
8:50
heartbeat versus stress or as a measure for stress, I, I guess
8:54
in my mind, I was more of the school of thought that like you
8:57
would use something like cortisol or some, you know, a
8:59
level like that to try and indicate your stress.
9:01
And maybe it can be longer. But, but I hadn't, it hadn't
9:04
occurred to me that your heart rate variability could be an
9:07
indicator of that as well, That it could actually be maybe an
9:11
underlying way of looking at something that's a little bit
9:13
maybe more representative of your overall health versus
9:16
something like a cortisol spike or something that might happen,
9:19
you know, as a result of something.
9:21
Yeah. So, so that there will be a
9:23
correlation between the cortisol spike and the heart rate
9:25
variability. So when we release cortisol
9:28
because of stress, the heart rate goes up.
9:30
So that is what happens. So, so the heart rate
9:33
variability is kind of a proxy for the level of cortisol in the
9:37
system, for example. So you can tell you whether you
9:41
are too stressed and of course with the artificial intelligence
9:45
and the measurements of millions of people's different, you know,
9:50
data, they can give you an estimate of your stress level in
9:55
the moment and, and 24/7. So, so it's a really important
9:59
metric and it's something that you can have, you know, on your
10:03
wrist available at all times. So you can see whether you are
10:07
too stressed for your own good. So, and you could detect also if
10:11
if you're coming down with a COVID or an infection and so on.
10:15
So. So that's why it's useful for
10:19
people, yeah. Well, and it just seems like an
10:21
interesting metric to look at versus the kinds of things that
10:23
I guess doctors, at least in my experience with doctors, have
10:26
traditionally looked at my. SO the father I described
10:29
earlier was technically my stepdad.
10:31
My biological father actually died when I was 18.
10:35
He was 47 of a massive heart attack.
10:38
Now he had a lot of life factors that I don't have.
10:40
Like he drank like a fish and he smoked and he did all these
10:43
things. But, you know, so he he kind of,
10:46
I guess, probably made things worse than they had to be.
10:49
But but ever since then, I guess maybe just as a byproduct of
10:53
having my father pass so young, I've always sort of assumed that
10:56
that was the the path for me. Like it's for sure my heart's
10:59
going to explode at 47, which is now only three years away.
11:02
So that's a terrible prospect now.
11:05
So, but the, the idea is, or like the way that I've been
11:09
tested in the past or to kind of keep an eye on my heart is I go
11:12
do a stress test, I'll go have an EKG, I'll go do some of these
11:15
kind of measurements. And so I mean, is this heart
11:17
rate variability, is this a factor that doctors, I guess
11:20
traditionally use to look at like a marker of health?
11:23
Or is that kind of a new? Innovation kind of a new, it's
11:26
not a new innovation, but what is new is that it is available
11:29
to people. So earlier you would have to
11:32
have advanced technology, you know, in the office costing, you
11:36
know, 100 thousands of dollars, you know, to, to be able to do
11:39
that. But now it's available for for
11:42
everybody. And what is interesting because
11:45
as a doctor, we are usually waiting until people get sick
11:48
and then we do something, but that is too late.
11:51
So when you can see something on your ECG that is too late, you
11:55
need to step in before that so you can avoid getting that heart
11:59
disease. And this is where HRV or heart
12:02
rate variability comes in because that will tell something
12:05
about the risk of getting that heart disease.
12:07
So if you improve these lifestyle factors, then your
12:11
heart rate variability will be better and your chances of
12:14
avoiding the same destiny, you know, increases.
12:18
And that is my, that is my motivation.
12:21
You know, as, as my father died at 73, I wanted to improve my
12:26
chances of living a longer life. And I understood, you know,
12:29
because we didn't learn this in medical school.
12:31
In medical school we learn how to categorise diseases and find
12:34
out what's the treatment. We didn't learn how to create
12:37
health. It was not on the curriculum.
12:39
So all of this I had to learn by myself the importance of sleep,
12:44
the importance of exercise, the importance of stress management
12:48
and nutrition and all of this. And in the pulse care, I've
12:51
tried to make it as actionable and easily understandable as
12:55
possible for, for, for, you know, normal people not not
13:01
being doctors. So, and also the fact that we
13:05
can couple it to the smart watches so that you can see what
13:09
happens, you know, so it is for a lot of people, it's like a
13:12
gamification and it's like watching your body as a body
13:17
budget. You know, you have some
13:18
stressors and to to to balance those stressors, you have to do
13:23
something good, you know, to, to come out, you know, on the plus
13:27
side of things. I like, I like that you
13:31
mentioned the gamification of, of it because in my family, I
13:36
have an uncle and all his kids, they have a contest everyday to
13:40
see who gets the most steps on their Fitbit.
13:43
And they went, it went out to be, you know, like casual, just
13:48
fun and games to now it's really competitive for him.
13:51
And my uncle will will literally walk 2 miles just to beat his
13:55
daughter in the, in the competition every day.
13:56
And it's, it's kind of funny to me that before he didn't have
13:59
the motivation, but now that it's kind of a game, it's fun
14:03
for him and, and it's a competition which changes
14:06
things. Absolutely.
14:08
And it becomes a competition, you know, to sleep better, to
14:11
get a better sleep score, you know, because like 10 years ago,
14:14
you, you would be, you know, kind of worded, you know, having
14:19
little sleep, you know, if you can say it to people, I, I just
14:21
sleep five hours, you know, I can sleep in the grave, you
14:24
know, So now it's easier to say that Oh yeah, I got 90 points,
14:28
you know, I got 80 points and then so on.
14:30
So that you're stretching yourself towards health, you
14:34
know, not away from health. So.
14:36
So sleep is the most important thing.
14:39
So if you don't get sleep, what happens, Right?
14:42
What, like I actually right now am operating on like 2 hours of
14:48
sleep. So I'm kind of curious if it was
14:51
a long night. I had an excuse.
14:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, but if, if you get,
14:57
say, for example, if you get less than six hours of sleep
15:01
compared to more than seven, you double your risk of cancer, for
15:05
example. So, and it increases the risk of
15:08
getting dementia and Parkinson, it's related to, to sleep
15:14
deficiency. So you really need actually
15:17
those 7 to 8 hours a night with restorative sleep, not only
15:23
sleep because I used to drink a couple of I, I've done all the
15:26
mistakes in my book, you know, and I used to drink a couple of
15:30
glasses of wine every evening. It felt so good that, you know,
15:33
I was falling asleep easier. But the problem is during the
15:38
night, the stress is really high.
15:40
So I can see from my garment watch that my stress level
15:43
during the night after two or three glasses of wine is just as
15:46
high as, as if I'm standing having a lecture for 200 people.
15:50
It's the same effect on my stress levels so.
15:53
And that's that's way 2 glasses of wine.
15:56
I mean, I would say then 33 glasses of wine that that would
16:00
be a really high stress level. So I used to think, you know,
16:03
when I woke up and felt, felt a bit sluggish, that this was just
16:06
a feeling. But when you see, you know, you
16:09
see the results on your monitor, then you understand the stress
16:13
that this has caused during the night.
16:14
And I don't think I've met anyone who's tracking their
16:18
system that it's not cut down on alcohol.
16:21
Yeah. Because, for example, according
16:23
to WOOP, which is an American bracelet that tracks heart rate
16:26
variability and maybe one of the best ones, they track their
16:31
users and they say that alcohol is the worst dresser of all.
16:35
So. And so then you just start, you
16:39
know, regulating maybe skipping some of the glasses that is not
16:43
kind of necessary. And you prioritize the ones you
16:46
know at the wedding or you know, if you're out with the guys or
16:50
whatever. So it's a, it's a way to, to
16:54
minimize alcohol because I just, yeah, some of the worst things
16:57
you can do if you want to perform at your best.
17:00
Yeah, it's crazy how, you know, you don't think about that.
17:04
Like in my 20s, I I do it every night, go and have a couple
17:07
beers and have some fun. And now if I go have a couple
17:11
beers, I have a hangover for two days.
17:12
And so it's it's not as fun anymore.
17:15
So it's not it's not even tempting really for me, but
17:19
yeah. Yeah.
17:20
So you mentioned that one watch is like, I can't remember Garmin
17:27
Garmin's what you use, but you the one in America that that you
17:30
like the. Whoop, yeah, Garmin is also an
17:32
American brand, so both Garmin and Whoop is kind of the leaders
17:36
in the field. You also have the finish or a
17:39
ring, which is a ring that will track your system.
17:42
But Garmin is by far the best option, by the way, the best and
17:48
also in many ways the cheapest option.
17:50
You would you would get a really good watch for probably $250.
17:54
Is it better because it is more accurate or is it better because
17:59
of the software that comes with it for tracking?
18:02
It's both. It's better for the accuracy,
18:04
but also better for the algorithms and the way that they
18:07
presented to you. Now with the body battery system
18:10
that you can see kind of in the morning, you will see if you
18:13
have charged up to you know, 80% or so.
18:16
And you can see during the day that your kind of battery goes
18:19
down and try to avoid it getting lower than 20s, what I usually
18:24
recommend. So it makes it actionable.
18:26
You know, it's like a dashboard in your car.
18:29
So your heart rate variability and stress levels, just like the
18:32
speed and the battery is like how much do you have left in on
18:36
the gas tank? So that it, it becomes like a
18:40
dashboard for your own Physiology, which is obviously
18:43
more important than the dashboard in the car.
18:45
You know, even if, even if that is quite important.
18:48
Yeah. No, so I wonder if we couldn't
18:51
play like a little bit of a game here and this reveals me or
18:54
involves me releasing some personal data.
18:58
But so just by happenstance, it's interesting that we're,
19:01
that we're talking to you so recently, Well, I guess it's
19:03
been about 5 months ago, we bought a thing called an 8
19:05
sleep. And eight sleep is a device that
19:08
goes on top of your bed and it, you know, can either heat or
19:11
cool your mattress. And before that I had one called
19:14
an Ulur and it was the same general idea, but our Ulur took
19:17
a crap after six or seven years or something.
19:19
So we, we replaced it with this 8 sleep.
19:21
One thing that it does is the 8 sleep is full of sensors and it
19:24
does all kinds of different tracking and it gives you a
19:25
bunch of metrics. So just by random chance, I
19:28
happened to be getting an HRV score every day and I had no
19:32
idea what that was before we spoke.
19:34
So I'm grateful that we spoke and now I have some idea what it
19:36
is. So in doing a little ChatGPT ING
19:38
to make sure that it wasn't embarrassing.
19:40
Do you say this number out loud? I, you know, I wanted to share
19:44
with you this and I kind of wanted to talk to you a little
19:46
bit about the trend and I wanted to see if you could sort of
19:48
identify something because I have an idea of what could be
19:50
causing, which is basically been a little bit of a, a decline
19:54
over the last little while. And now it's starting to, to go
19:57
back up. But I wonder if this would sort
19:58
of weigh into or be supported by maybe your hypothesis in the way
20:03
that these work as an indicator of general health.
20:06
So basically starting back in August, I was at a 54
20:10
millisecond weekly average. So that's what the weekly
20:13
average was at its lowest. And this is just last week.
20:16
It was at 31 millisecond weekly average.
20:19
Yeah, so, so you know, quite. And I'm sure, I'm sure you feel
20:22
that. Yeah.
20:24
Well, and I'll and I'll say, so here's what's happened, right?
20:26
Or what I believe has happened and you can tell me if this
20:28
makes sense then in those kinds of numbers.
20:30
So over the course of that period, I began a what has
20:35
become kind of a nasty habit and I need to be better about, which
20:37
is spending time on social media at night before bed around here
20:41
in this country. A big part of that was flipping
20:43
through it and getting all the latest on the election drama and
20:46
all the things that were going on in this country.
20:49
And, and so I found myself often I'd get into bed at 10, which
20:52
was the time I used to get into bed, but then I'd sit and flip,
20:55
you know, till midnight. And even as recently as last
20:57
night, I was right. I haven't totally backed back
20:59
out of this habit because prior to that, like I don't really use
21:03
social media, but for whatever reason, I got in this loop.
21:05
There's a lot of crazy dramas, a lot of fun.
21:07
So, so I spent a lot of time swiping.
21:09
So, but what I'm, what I'm looking at in this chart is a
21:12
decline basically down to November or something.
21:15
And then December it's starting to go back up.
21:18
And so I'm wondering of like, is it in, in just your opinion?
21:22
And obviously I'm not treating you like a doctor.
21:24
I'm treating you like somebody that we're just talking here,
21:26
there's no like diagnosis happening.
21:28
But like, does it make sense that, I mean, I can at least
21:30
anecdotally say in that period of time, I was sleeping less
21:34
than in the period prior. Of course, I didn't have the bed
21:36
before then, so I can't give you more data, but but I was
21:40
definitely sleeping less. I was definitely probably, I
21:42
guess, generally more stressed just given the political nature
21:46
of the, you know, all the, the turmoil and everybody hates each
21:49
other and all the stuff that was going on in this country.
21:52
And then and then, you know, as the election came and went and
21:56
the results ended, however they ended like I, you know, I'm
21:59
still in, in kind of bad habit mode.
22:01
But I, you know, definitely on the on the men, like now it
22:04
seems to be trending back upwards.
22:06
Doesn't make sense to you just kind of based on what you know
22:09
about her, a variability that it's a clear indicator that this
22:12
is like a, a stress problem, a not sleeping problem.
22:15
And like these kind of things. Like would that be a reasonable
22:20
hypothesis? Like if you were to look at this
22:21
data from a, as a, from a physician standpoint, would you
22:24
be like, oh, well, what did you do?
22:25
This is an obvious life change versus, I don't know, like let's
22:29
say something like a grander diagnosis, like a health problem
22:31
or something. Yeah, absolutely.
22:33
That could be the difference that makes this heart rate
22:35
variability go down. And I'm sure that you can feel
22:39
the difference between those two numbers from 54 to 31 that I
22:44
guess if you feel it in your overall health level, I would
22:48
guess. And yeah, and I mean, definitely
22:50
today, you know, I'm, I've been sick the last couple days, so
22:52
I'm probably not the best indicator, but I can definitely
22:55
say I've been more tired. Like in the mornings, it's been
22:58
harder to get up. Yeah, you know, and I mean, it
23:00
sounds stupid because, yeah, of course you went to bed at 12:30
23:02
instead of at 10. So yeah, you're tired.
23:04
And so but, but so I've been. But also, but, but it's not only
23:08
the reduced time in bed, but this heart rate variability show
23:11
that the little time in bed that you had was less restorative.
23:17
And it may have been different reasons, of course, the one you
23:19
mentioned by being looking at social media and getting
23:22
stressed and, and worked up by what you're seeing in reading.
23:26
And also at this time of year, there's less sunshine.
23:29
So that could also be a part of it.
23:31
And, and it also would depend if you're eating something while
23:35
you're weight, depends if you're eating later, that could also be
23:39
a huge factor. So what we are eating has a lot
23:41
to say. Do you know if you have been
23:43
eating differently or eating later meals or?
23:47
Probably, I will say maybe what is kind of ramped up in sort of
23:51
a similar time period is probably eating out more
23:53
frequently versus cooking at home.
23:56
We've had a really, really busy schedule lately.
23:59
Both our boys are doing all kinds of football training and
24:02
stuff. And so we're staying American
24:03
football training. And so we're doing a lot of, you
24:06
know, travelling and going to camps and doing this and that.
24:08
And so we end up eating out a lot.
24:10
So that's for. Sure.
24:11
So it could be the totality of it, all the different factors
24:15
coming together, you know, creating this quite huge
24:18
downshift in heart rate variability from 54 to 30
24:22
something. Well, and so it is good with the
24:25
8 sleep, you know, and even with the 8 sleep because that should
24:28
be a quite good way to sleep better.
24:30
So it depends on the temperature that you have.
24:34
Probably in the 8 sleep. I'm not sure how you have.
24:36
Set the temperature there and I can share some of that with you.
24:39
I was just going to add, is there any correlation like
24:41
between like beats per minute, which I think I was conflating
24:43
with heart rate variability? Is there a relationship there?
24:47
So like just to give you the same, just to give you the
24:49
metric over the last six months there, my heart rate tends to be
24:52
a little up right now, but the variability is from 55 beats per
24:56
minute, 60. So I mean, it's not not a
24:58
dramatic jump. So I'm not looking at that as
25:00
having the same sort of decline or incline as the HRV score.
25:05
Yeah. And that is typical.
25:06
So that I often say that looking at your heart rate variability
25:09
is like looking at your heart rate with a magnifying class.
25:13
So you can tell you so much more.
25:14
So we're your heart rate would go maybe a little bit down.
25:18
Your heart rate variability can go a lot more, you know,
25:21
percentage wise down than than just the numbers on the heart
25:25
rate. So absolutely.
25:28
And I've know a lot of athletes that could have more or less the
25:32
same nightly heart rate, but that could have a kind of 50%
25:38
difference in heart rate variability.
25:40
And this is what would would make this overtraining visible
25:45
much more than the heart rate in itself.
25:48
So these are quite important numbers.
25:50
And it's very nice that you get it from your bed because then
25:53
you get, and I think that is quite accurate.
25:56
I think the HD bed is quite accurate.
25:58
I, I, I would want to have it, but it's expensive and
26:01
particularly over here. So to, to get it here.
26:05
So I'm a bit envious. It was.
26:07
Expensive. And just like every fine
26:09
American, I'm making payments on it just like everyone else.
26:12
But I find that that for me, like I just, I tend to be a warm
26:16
sleeper anyway. So it's been a system that works
26:18
really well for me. In fact, I've I've noticed the
26:20
last few nights I've actually been a little too cold.
26:22
So I've been adjusting my temperature up a little bit.
26:24
Yeah, because, because having it a bit colder is better.
26:28
You burn more calories. I think I think between 60 and
26:32
65° should be OK. OK.
26:36
So somewhere around there. Yeah, that's probably pretty
26:39
close to what I keep it. I might be as high as like 70,
26:41
but I think it keeps it pretty cool to me.
26:44
I prefer to be cooler on the bottom with heavy blankets on
26:47
top, so that's how I do it. And so but yeah, but like last
26:51
night or two nights ago, I was just freezing to death.
26:52
So I bumped it all the way up to like 72, which is yeah, for me.
26:56
Yeah. So you could do experimenting,
26:58
you know, and you can see on your heart rate variability the
27:01
result of what you what you're experimenting with.
27:04
So, so, but but it's in general that is a good heart rate
27:08
variability so that you can have 54 that's good.
27:13
And of course now you see the range that that the 31 for you
27:18
is a is a low range, so. Yeah.
27:20
And I definitely will say and that and that.
27:21
Increases your chances of getting this cold infection or
27:25
whatever you have right now so that you have been going down
27:29
with heart rate variability. It shows that your immune system
27:31
is not as efficient and it's much easier to get these
27:35
infections, you know, so. Well, and it's kind of, I mean,
27:38
it's totally anecdotal, but like the way that this, you know, 8
27:41
sleep system works, they give you like a sleep fitness score
27:44
every night, right? And so, and I can tell you, so
27:47
like August, September, October, I was always within whatever
27:50
their range is, right? So like averaging somewhere in
27:52
the high 80s to 90s with a couple like 100%.
27:56
And I will say that now I tend to average more like in the 70s
28:00
to 80s. So like whatever's going on, you
28:03
know, that's influencing that. And like I say, largely, I think
28:06
it's just I'm staying up too late and getting up too early is
28:09
the the biggest change. I mean, in additional to maybe
28:12
just kind of a general stress of this time of year and everything
28:14
else. Yeah.
28:15
And, and the good part is that we get these numbers so we can
28:17
see the results because we are not really equipped from from
28:21
nature's side to feel this. So we need these metrics to tell
28:26
us how our the state of our bodies because our senses have
28:30
been directed outwards, you know, throughout the history,
28:34
excellent eyesight, excellent hearing, excellent sense of
28:36
touch. But the sense for our inner
28:38
system would just have been in the way, you know, just like a
28:41
submarine need to to, you know, get their own noises down to be
28:47
able to hear what's going on on the outside.
28:49
And it's exactly the same with our bodies.
28:51
So we can't really feel this. So, so the heart rate is kind of
28:56
the way to amplify the signal from our body so that we can see
29:00
it and we then notice it. That is kind of having like
29:04
seeing the budget, you know, if you, if you don't see what's on
29:07
your account, you don't know how much you can spend, you know,
29:10
whether you have to take it on down payment or if you have the
29:13
money in the bank. So it's a way of getting your
29:16
body budget that I'm talking about in the post year, getting
29:20
in balance. So.
29:22
So. You know, I guess in balance
29:25
wise, most people sleep at night.
29:29
What if you have a, a job where you work nights and sleep during
29:32
the day? Does that affect your, your
29:37
heart rate or, or does it, you know, you get in that rhythm and
29:42
you just get the same amount of sleep?
29:44
Does it matter if it's during the day or at night?
29:47
Yeah. So, so unfortunately, and I've
29:49
been working a lot of night time as a doctor that is really
29:53
detrimental for the stress levels.
29:56
So it's it's actually dangerous. It's actually recognize that
30:00
carcinogenic, for example, in Denmark to work night shifts.
30:05
Wow. And that is even and that
30:07
includes even, you know, working very late or very early.
30:10
You know, we are, our cells are constructed to sleep at night.
30:15
So whatever we do that is against our biology, we lose
30:20
something. So because that's so working at
30:23
night is not. I've been a, I've been a DJ for
30:27
30 years and I usually get off work at 2:00 in the morning and
30:30
then I get home at 3 and it takes about an hour or two for
30:34
me to unwind. And I do that two or three
30:37
nights a week. And so I found that for me,
30:40
sometimes it's easier for me to just stay up and then stay on
30:44
that, on that cycle. And I'm kind of at a point now
30:48
where I do that less and less. But it it for a long portion of
30:51
my life, that's what I did. I just, I, I was a night person
30:54
and I slept during the day. I'd usually go to bed around
30:57
4:30 in the morning, get up around 1:00 in the afternoon,
31:00
and do it all over again. And four 3430 to 1 roughly So
31:07
so, so, so, so the the amount of hours is OK.
31:11
Then it's just like an account in the, you know, in my head.
31:15
So and I think that once you have this sleep consistency that
31:20
you do it every day at the same level, that would probably make
31:24
it easier for you than than shifting back and forward, you
31:27
know which? Would be like that was the
31:29
problem I was having I was I was working a 40 hour day job and
31:35
then D Jing on the weekend. So I would you know go from 9:00
31:39
to 5:00 during the week and then on Friday I'd do 9:00 to 5:00
31:42
and then I'd go and come home and have dinner and then I'd go
31:45
back to work at 9 and work until 2:00 in the morning do that
31:48
Friday and Saturday night and then have a day off and go back
31:51
and do it all over again. And that, that didn't last very
31:55
long. I couldn't do that for very long
31:56
that. Sounds very hard.
31:58
Yeah, that sounds very hard and. It definitely wasn't fun, but
32:03
yeah. And then it would be important,
32:07
you know, and that is how when these gadgets would be really
32:11
important, because then you would, you know, you would
32:15
continue to work in that way. You know, you can choose that.
32:17
But then you would need to mitigate all the kinds of
32:21
stress. You know, you would need to not
32:23
drink alcohol. You would need to take care of
32:26
what you're eating so that you're not eating something that
32:29
further, you know, makes it worse.
32:32
So yeah. And so I am the Guinea pig.
32:35
I'm the I'm the guy that's probably going to die early
32:37
because of my life choices, just because of my job and drinking
32:41
habits and all that stuff. Is it reversible if you catch
32:44
it? Absolutely.
32:47
So this is reversible and that is a good thing about it.
32:49
So because we are renewing our body all the time, you know,
32:54
there are, there are new cells coming, building.
32:56
So you know, by following the advice, for example, in the
33:02
pulse cure, which is the best advice on sleep, movement,
33:06
nutrition, rest, you know, and all of this, you, you would be
33:11
able to change that just like I did.
33:12
You know, I, I weighed 40 lbs more than I do today.
33:15
I did not exercise at all. I did not care about what I was
33:19
eating, how I was sleeping. I, I've done all the mistakes in
33:22
my book, really, I'm not kidding.
33:25
And you, you can change that because because the body is
33:30
renewing itself all of the time, it's changing the cells, it's
33:34
taking the bad parts of cells that are, you know, working, not
33:39
working properly and reusing the material into new cells.
33:42
So as long as you can change that lifestyle into something
33:48
more sustainable, you could totally, you know, I'm not sure.
33:53
I couldn't tell, you know, how much you would be able to make
33:57
up for that or not even in my case, you know, drinking alcohol
34:01
every day. I, I was smoking, I was, you
34:04
know, doing everything wrong. And hopefully, you know, I've
34:07
been able to, to change that. So, but, but I, I'm very sure
34:13
that by changing that lifestyle into something more sustainable,
34:16
you will also get the results You have much more.
34:20
That is that is a message in the pulse cure that you can take
34:24
charge of your health. And these smartwatches can help
34:29
you to find out, You know, just just like Ryan here that you can
34:33
see some numbers that you think that wow, I, and then you start
34:37
to tweak it. You start to eat a little bit
34:40
different and see, OK, what happens then, you know, you
34:43
start skipping the alcohol and maybe a week and then, OK, what
34:47
happens then? And, and that is when it becomes
34:50
this gamification where, where is your own life that is at
34:54
stake, You know, your own life and health.
34:55
It's just not, not just an avatar in the video game, you
34:58
know, it's, it's yourself. Yeah, I've, I've recently
35:06
changed my diet and I also changed, I found out I had sleep
35:11
apnea and I was, I was a little overweight and some of the side
35:17
effects of sleep apnea is that you just don't breathe for a few
35:20
like a minute or so. And people my when I figured out
35:26
that had a deal of research on it and supposedly it's a major
35:29
cause in Alzheimer's and major health problems down the road.
35:33
And so I went and got AAC pap and then I changed my diet and
35:37
I've lost probably 3540 lbs in the last 5-6 months.
35:42
And I, and I've noticed a difference.
35:45
It, it's like a major difference.
35:46
And so just just when I got the C pap, that right there changed
35:51
everything. I could actually sleep through a
35:53
night consistently, whereas before I, I, I never hit REM
35:58
sleep. And so that was a major change
36:00
in my life. Yeah, and I know that the the 8
36:04
sleep will actually when it detects snoring, it will raise,
36:09
you know, the head side of the bed as I understand it.
36:11
Ryan. Oh.
36:12
Really. Yeah.
36:13
Unfortunately, the bed frame that we have wasn't compatible
36:15
with that part, so we didn't get that part.
36:17
We've just got the cover. But yeah, no, that's exactly
36:19
what it does. And the one that we have does do
36:21
the monitoring. So the least says, hey, man, you
36:23
sucked last night. You snort a lot.
36:25
And I do tend to snore. I, I don't know, I'm sort of
36:27
perpetually stuffy. So, so I do tend to snore, but
36:31
it does, you know. Oh well, you snored less tonight
36:33
than last night. You could, you could try to tape
36:35
your mouth. Have you have you heard about
36:36
that? I've started to hear about it.
36:38
It actually terrifies me because these are the nightmares I had
36:40
as a guy that doesn't breathe all that well.
36:42
I just go, oh God, you know, somebody tries to rob my house.
36:44
He covers my mouth. I'm just going to stroke out.
36:46
I'm just going to have a heart. Attack, yeah, but you could try
36:50
and you could try, you know, if you just take a nap and just
36:52
see. Because usually the nose will
36:56
will function better, you will get better sleep so.
36:59
Yeah, 'cause I considered. Some of the mouth guards and
37:01
things like that, you know, I've, I've seen some different
37:03
things for doing, you know, trying to clean that up.
37:06
But yeah, but just normal tape, tape you can buy at the
37:08
pharmacies is is enough. You just put one not, not across
37:12
your mouth, but top down, you know, just like you know,
37:17
vertical. So you will have space on both
37:19
sides. So it's not like you're.
37:22
Yeah, totally. Obstructed.
37:24
Yeah. That makes sense.
37:26
Yeah. Never I've seen.
37:28
I know that there's products being marketed for that
37:30
specifically. I think there's even one just
37:31
called mouth tape or something. It's kind of a a joke of, you
37:35
know, that you're covering people up.
37:37
But but I think that that was the the purpose of this too.
37:40
And I have always wondered about that kind of thing, if it would
37:44
be of use to me, you know, And obviously I'll wait until I'm
37:46
not with cold or something, but it might be worth giving it a
37:49
shot. I, I use it, I use it if I get a
37:53
cold, then I'm interesting using it particularly.
37:56
So I'm also using it a lot of the time.
37:59
But if I get a cold, I'm sure to tape it because if I don't, you
38:03
know, my mouth will be dry and I will wake up in the middle of
38:06
the night and totally dry and it's terrible.
38:10
Interesting. Yeah, that's.
38:10
What's the what's I mean, do you know, like what's the science
38:13
behind that? Like is it just your body
38:15
adapting to stay alive or like why would it actually make a
38:18
part of your body work better if instructing like your main
38:21
passage? Well.
38:23
The main, it's the nose, Yeah. So the main, so our noses are
38:28
are made to humidify the air to take change the temperature.
38:32
So even in the cold of winter, just from the time from the air
38:37
is by your nose until your lungs, it has to reach the
38:39
temperature and it will be full of nitric oxide.
38:43
See, it will take nitric oxide from your sinuses and, and take
38:47
it down into your system and improve your circulation.
38:51
So our, our noses are constructed, you know, through
38:54
millions of years to optimize the air that comes into your
38:57
lungs and the, the mouth is for eating, you know, so, so that is
39:02
why it works so well to, to tape your mouth to make sure that
39:05
you're using your, your nose for breathing.
39:07
So there's a great book by a guy named the James Nestor is called
39:12
Brett that will explain that. Or if you listen to podcasts
39:16
where James Nestor, he will, he will explain the, the science of
39:19
it. Yeah, absolutely.
39:21
And, and, and the First Nation, you know, the indigenous people
39:24
in the US, they used to be very aware of that, that, that, that
39:27
their children needed to, to breathe with their noses to, to
39:31
get the good capacity. Well, and I've always heard that
39:34
like for runners and things like that, that you should breathe
39:36
through the nose, not through the mouth and things like that
39:38
when you're working out. And, you know, and I guess I
39:40
just never really did because I always kind of feel stuffy, you
39:44
know, so I never really did anything, but I've had my nose
39:46
checked out a bunch of times and I even did a little procedure
39:49
one time, but just like I've had no real positive result.
39:52
But what I wonder, or what I believe could be the issue is
39:55
maybe like a grander scale inflammation.
40:00
And, and I, I mean, this is just my hypothesis.
40:03
I don't really know and I haven't had a doctor say
40:05
anything, but it's kind of the only thing that makes sense if
40:07
the passageways are clear. But it's still a struggle to
40:09
breathe. Then it makes sense to me that
40:11
maybe it could be an inflammation thing.
40:13
And so, but you mentioned that there's a relationship between
40:16
inflammation and heart rate variability too.
40:18
So what does that mechanism look like?
40:20
Yeah. So, so the more inflammation in
40:22
your body, the lower your heart rate variability.
40:25
So now that you have a lower heart rate variability that also
40:29
a sign that your body is more inflamed and and it's also then
40:35
immune system working not so well, which increases the chance
40:39
of you're contracting this normal chest infection or or
40:45
virus infection that you may have.
40:48
OK, now that makes sense. And is that, I mean, I guess
40:52
like medically how how is that working?
40:54
Is it what's causing the inflammation?
40:57
I guess I mean like the heart rate variability is a thing, but
40:59
I mean like, I don't know, commonly you think of things
41:01
like, I don't know, too much sodium or you know, whatever.
41:04
Like these are the things that cause your bodies to inflamed.
41:07
But like I don't. Know are we looking at
41:08
inflammation wrong? It, it could be so many things
41:12
causing the inflammation. So it could be a lack of sleep.
41:15
It could be that you're eating something that you don't
41:18
tolerate that well. That could be gluten food, stuff
41:23
that has gluten in it or milk in it.
41:26
You know, it could be that you're eating something with
41:30
chili in it, you know, that's very spicy.
41:32
It could be different things. It could be that you're
41:35
overtrained, you know, for example, that you're training
41:38
too hard alcohol it it could be so many different things.
41:45
So that is why it's it's kind of a detective work to see the
41:49
numbers, you know, on your smartwatch or from your bed
41:53
there and to find out, OK, what caused this.
41:56
And then you take away one factor and see, OK, what's was
42:00
it this that led to this? So for example, eating a late
42:05
meal would affect your inflammation level.
42:10
So yeah. Yeah, that's interesting.
42:14
So all right, so now that we're talking a little bit about this,
42:17
I mean, obviously people have, I mean, more than ever, maybe
42:19
you're wearing these wearables and they're starting maybe to
42:21
get a better picture of their HIV.
42:23
But I, I assume people like me probably didn't know the
42:25
difference between heart rate variability in our, our eating
42:27
heart. And so I appreciate you taking
42:29
some time on that. I wonder if we could talk about
42:32
though, just sort of like, I guess identifying when we need
42:35
to take action. And, you know, maybe an easy
42:38
example is maybe mine where my heart rate variability went down
42:40
and I'm sick. And so by product, I should have
42:43
been better. But like, if you're the average
42:45
citizen, you seem to be doing pretty good.
42:46
You're working, you're you're, you know, everything seems fine
42:50
and you see a blip on your heart rate variability meter, like
42:54
when is time to act? And I guess how do we know what
42:57
to even do? How do we know when it's an
42:59
indicator of infection versus just I didn't sleep good last
43:01
night. Yeah.
43:03
So just one would not matter much.
43:06
So it's when it's consistently going down over time, such as
43:10
you have experience here, that is when you should, you know
43:14
that these signals are kind of flashing and telling you that,
43:17
OK, your, your heart rate variability is lower, your body
43:22
is under stress, you need to change something.
43:26
So it will depend from the person, but you would see it on
43:30
the garment curves from the heart rate variability over time
43:33
that, that this is going down into the red zone.
43:37
And it will tell you with words, you know that, OK, there's
43:41
something going on here. You should allow yourself to
43:43
rest more and sleep or it will give you advice on what to do so
43:48
that you're not helpless. You kind of you have this aid
43:53
from the garment Wars that will tell you what to do and also
43:57
from your from whoop band if you choose to use a whoop band or
44:01
so. Well, and so would the, I guess
44:04
sort of proper way to start looking at, you know, I mean, if
44:06
we're self diagnosing here and we're looking at this and we're
44:09
going, yeah, you know, it's starting to slip.
44:11
I mean, is the right way to sort of investigate our our health
44:14
sort of like basically the exercise that we just ran
44:16
through, which is OK, well, what changed in these last few
44:19
months? OK, we're sleeping last reading
44:20
later, we're doing these like, I mean, is that the kind of
44:23
analysis that we should be performing or should we be
44:24
running to a doctor and saying, hey man, I think.
44:27
Yeah, you should try that first to see if there's any obvious
44:30
reason, you know, that you can think of just like you did, you
44:33
know, you could find a reason. And then you should try to, you
44:36
know, correct things and see if it goes up again.
44:39
And if it goes up again, then it's it's fine.
44:42
But if you do all those different things, for example,
44:45
in the poster in the book, and still the, the level is low,
44:50
then you should go to the doctor.
44:51
And that is what I'm writing in the book as well.
44:53
And and then you may find things like B vitamin B12 deficiency,
44:58
vitamin D deficiency, iron deficiency, particularly for
45:01
women, you, you may even find cancer.
45:04
So there are several examples of people seeing that curve going
45:08
down, trying to mitigate it, going to the doctor and finding
45:12
out it was cancer because the heart rate will respond to any
45:17
demand on the body. So whether it's you working
45:20
hard, staying up at night or the cancer starting to, to require
45:26
more work, you know, from the body, it will be seen in the
45:30
heart rate variability. So then it's absolutely, if it
45:34
goes down over time, you should go to the doctor.
45:37
Him, the doctor may not understand this.
45:39
I had never heard of heart rate variability until five years
45:43
ago, so chances are that the the doctor may not understand this
45:48
if they're not updated. Yeah.
45:50
Is that the main indicator to I'm sorry, oh, I was gonna say,
45:53
is that is that the main indicator to watch or is there
45:56
another like bullet points you should pay attention to like
45:59
blood pressure and you know, other indicators that are more
46:03
net important per SE or is is the heart rate?
46:09
Yeah, the heart rate variability I think is most important and
46:12
more actionable, but you should of course also have a blood
46:15
pressure monitor. You should have that at home and
46:19
to make sure that your blood pressure is, you know, less than
46:22
130 / 80 for example. I'm not sure how you, which
46:28
numbers you have in the States, but I think it's the same.
46:31
So to, to follow that at home, it's important because having a
46:38
high blood pressure is a risk factor for disease in itself.
46:43
But it's not so easy to, you know, the, the, the good thing
46:47
about these trackers is that they, you, you have it on all
46:51
the time, you know, so it can, it can help you and analyse it
46:56
while the blood pressure monitor you would have to use yourself,
47:00
you know, and note down what it was and so on.
47:02
But I understand that there's so much things happening in this
47:05
field now, so this this whole field by with variables is just
47:09
exploding. So I think that it will soon be
47:11
able to detect the blood pressure also in the in the
47:15
watches. It's amazing the, the, the tech
47:18
that's come out just in the last four or five years as far as
47:22
like the, the glucose monitors on your arm or you just hold
47:25
your phone up and it scans it and, and stuff like that is the
47:30
insulin pumps that are just built in or your pacemaker that
47:33
you can connect to your phone. And it's like we're almost
47:37
Androids now. Yeah.
47:39
So yeah, yeah, I use, I use the CGM, the continuous glucose
47:43
monitor a lot. And that's also very important
47:46
because the, the fluctuations in blood sugar and the insulin is
47:51
also very bad for your system. So, so for me, it was a really
47:56
interesting to, to have that monitor on and to see the blood
48:00
sugar variations and to try to have a stable low blood sugar
48:05
or, you know, low enough, of course, not too low.
48:10
So that's also important. But it's, it's because we have
48:13
this artificial intelligence and technology in everything else
48:16
that we do. So finally, it's coming to our
48:19
own bodies, our own Physiology and, and everything that the
48:24
body can tell us. The heart rate is the most
48:26
important. So just by following your heart
48:30
rate and and observing it and learning about your body and
48:34
what it reacts to you, you will come a long way.
48:38
So I, I wanted to ask and you kind of started to touch on it
48:41
there a second ago and having, you know, that maybe your doctor
48:43
won't know what to do with this even if you do show up there.
48:46
I mean, you know, it's pretty well known.
48:48
Like, I mean, we have kind of a bizarre health system over here
48:50
in the States. I'm not sure what it's like in
48:51
Norway, but you know, we have kind of this system where
48:55
basically you get to see your doctor for 5:00 or so minutes a
48:57
year. I think 7 minutes is the
48:59
average. So most of us don't have much of
49:02
a relationship with our primary care doctors unless there's
49:05
actually something wrong with you, which is kind of the point
49:07
you were making at the top of the show.
49:08
And and so because of that, you know, I mean, first of all, my
49:11
doctor doesn't know anything about me.
49:13
Second of all, my doctor may or may not have the expertise to
49:17
deal with this sort of thing. In fact, I work with an outside
49:20
clinic to do like quarterly blood work and, you know, take
49:24
supplementation and things like that to try and regulate levels
49:27
and things like that. So I'm doing a lot of work
49:29
outside of primary care to, to maintain myself.
49:32
And this seems like one of those kinds of things that maybe we
49:35
need to be taking onto our own instead of going to the doctor
49:38
for, for support. But what's the, the balancing
49:40
act there? Because like I mean one thing
49:42
you just brought up that made me think of it and you can kind of
49:44
tie the things together as you mentioned the continuous blood
49:47
glucose monitor. So to do that here in the
49:49
States, that really. Expensive not.
49:51
And yeah, because like I looked at one just for myself, I, I
49:54
have sort of borderline or what they would call like pre
49:56
diabetes. And so, and I've gotten some
49:59
control of that number and it's getting better all the time.
50:01
But, but for me, continuous blood or glucose monitor seemed
50:05
like a good idea. So I started investigating.
50:08
It is like eight, 800 bucks, 1000 bucks for the device.
50:10
And then like big monthly fees for everything.
50:13
And that was basically, yeah, it's just, you know, and then
50:16
like, you know, the way you would do it here in the States
50:19
is you would try and get your insurance to pay for it.
50:21
And my insurance won't do it unless you're already diabetic
50:24
or have some sort of pre-existing.
50:25
Well, what, what's even worse is when you you are diabetic and
50:29
you do have the prescription for it and then you, you retire and
50:33
lose your insurance, you can't afford it anymore, which is what
50:36
happened to my dad. He has a continuous thing and
50:40
Medicare won't cover it. And so, or at least the plan
50:44
that he's on, I don't know if there's another option, but it
50:48
it when he retired, he literally lost access to a lot of the meds
50:52
he was taken access to that our whole system is, is nasty.
50:58
And there's a lot of missions like.
51:00
That and that is, yeah. And that is why this is so
51:02
important because all the advice in the post here is free, you
51:06
know, moving, sleeping, resting, fasting, avoiding alcohol as
51:14
much as you can, though. And all, all of these things are
51:18
free or even cheaper. And you can use breath work to
51:21
calm yourself down. You can use cold exposure to,
51:24
to, to stress down and everything is free.
51:29
So it's only after you get sick that your health depends on your
51:33
wallet, you know, just like, like your dad.
51:35
So so. It's it's also it's better.
51:41
Because. I I was going to say, it's
51:44
better to change the oil on your car regularly than to let it go
51:47
so far to where your engine fails.
51:50
It's pretty much the same. Yeah, yeah.
51:53
So, and unfortunately, there's too much money to be made on
51:56
sick people. And This is why the whole
51:58
healthcare system, both in the US, you know, which is worse of
52:01
course than the Norway, but also here the, the strategy is
52:06
waiting until you get sick and then do something rather than do
52:10
preventative steps to avoid getting sick.
52:12
You know, because I know that the insurance company will not
52:17
make you go to the doctor unless you're sick.
52:20
You know, they they will not pay for that.
52:22
So, so the whole system is like that.
52:24
So well and like it actually. Discourages a lot of people from
52:27
seeking care when they need it, right?
52:29
Because you're going to have to go pay $150.00 or whatever to
52:31
see the doctor. That's exactly what happened to
52:33
me last whenever the. Doctor gives you, you know, then
52:36
you've got to bill it to your insurance and whether they pay
52:38
what don't they pay. So actually encourages a lot of
52:40
people who could use help from going and saving.
52:44
Ryan and I have both been self-employed for a long time,
52:47
long time. And in the states you had all
52:49
your insurance comes from, you know, if your employer provides
52:53
it for you or if you want to pay out of pocket a lot of money,
52:57
then you can get it. So for a short period of time I,
52:59
I worked for a radio station and they gave, I had benefits.
53:04
So I decided I'm going to go do the full work up.
53:07
I'm going to go do blood work. I'm going to go visit the
53:09
doctor. I'm going to do all the health
53:11
stuff that I've been neglecting for years.
53:14
When I go and get checked out, the only thing he tells me, oh,
53:18
you got a little bit of high cholesterol.
53:19
And that's right when I kind of figured out that I was, had
53:22
sleep apnea and I was a little overweight and all that stuff.
53:25
So I kind of knew that. And then I get a, a massive bill
53:29
in the mail and they didn't do anything.
53:32
They didn't do a damn thing. They, they took my weight, they
53:35
checked my blood and that was it and said, hey, you might have
53:38
high cholesterol. And now I have $500.00 bill and
53:41
and nothing to show for it. So it was like it's every time
53:45
I've been to the doctor I've had horrible experiences.
53:47
So if I can avoid it by being healthy, I'm going to be healthy
53:52
or trying to. Yeah, it's, it's a lot.
53:54
It's a lot better. And, and it's what I'm writing
53:57
that the first thing that I'm writing in the pulse care is a
54:00
quote from Albert Schweitzer, who was a doctor in the 1800s.
54:03
And he said that the doctor of the future will be yourself.
54:07
Yeah. And this is a way that when we
54:09
can use this technology, we can do that.
54:12
You know, we get access to the most important figures, you
54:16
know, or biometrics. So this is a huge shift, you
54:19
know, in taking the power from the doctors and the healthcare
54:22
system and putting it into your own hands, you know, literally
54:26
and able to to navigate, you know.
54:29
So remember when Web MD first came out and everyone got a
54:34
sliver and thought they were going to die because they
54:36
googled it and you know, oh, you're, you got cancer or what,
54:40
whatever. It's like they, they put it in
54:42
WebMD and then they think the world's going to end because
54:44
they, they get this, it could be this, it could be this, it could
54:48
be this. If you're your own doctor and
54:51
you're taking these figures in, is there like a spreadsheet?
54:55
Is there a website we can put them into to get, you know, like
54:59
more granular info or or do you just have to kind of know that
55:03
that, you know, if you're in the 50s with your heart?
55:09
I can't. What's the?
55:11
The rate variability. Yeah, rate variability, if
55:13
you're in that range, you're good.
55:15
But if you, if you don't really know what range is good, like
55:19
what a resting heart rate is or what your blood sugar should be
55:22
or you know, are there places you can put it in and it'll give
55:29
you like a, an alert or something?
55:32
I, I think that the, at least the garment watch would tell you
55:37
that, you know, give you an estimate of, of how you're
55:41
doing, if this is stress or not. You, you will see it and in the
55:44
figures in the graphs that you see every day.
55:48
So, so, and that is why they make it easy for you.
55:51
And this is a good thing that there is money on the front side
55:54
of the disease. You know, that not, it's not,
55:57
it's possible to make money helping people to stay healthy,
56:01
you know, so, so they of course, through their artificial
56:05
intelligence and their apps on the phone, they're using the
56:08
biometrics to give you the information that you need to be
56:13
able to adjust and, and, and change the lifestyle.
56:17
Yeah. Yeah, and it is interesting
56:19
you're seeing a shift and you just made a really good point,
56:21
which is the idea that the money is sort of switched locations,
56:24
right. In the traditional model, at
56:26
least here in the States, you know, the money's on the back
56:28
end. You, you get paid a ton when
56:29
you're the surgeon doing the surgery or you're, you know,
56:32
you're doing all the, you know, medical care once you find out
56:35
you're already diabetic. You know, I mean, like, I, I
56:38
don't even know, as a guy that didn't go to the doctor a lot
56:40
when I was younger, Like, I mean, I don't even know how many
56:42
years I had high blood pressure or whatever before a doctor
56:45
finally told me, you know, like, I mean, who knows?
56:48
And you know, and so it took a long time.
56:50
And even with like this A1C thing, it really only came about
56:53
because I saw one of these third party doctors, these outside
56:56
outsource people and, you know, sort of were able to give me
57:00
sort of a, a more comprehensive picture of my problems.
57:03
And my normal doctor, I guess as a result of insurance wasn't
57:07
ever running a full battery of tests.
57:09
He's running a very limited run, 5 or 6 tests.
57:11
That was kind of it, you know, the are we going to keep you
57:13
alive tests instead of, you know, everything more
57:16
comprehensive or diagnosing and, or that he could diagnose from.
57:20
And so I mean, but with the wearables, I mean the money is
57:23
in selling you an Apple Watch, the money is in selling you the,
57:26
you know, the bootstrap or whatever.
57:28
And so, you know, so the incentives are a little bit
57:30
different right now. It's, I mean, the byproduct is
57:32
preventative care because you have access to this data, but
57:36
for the financial incentive, it's actually on that front end.
57:39
And, and so I mean, you can almost see how a shift like that
57:43
in medical care generally would, I mean, they're not going to not
57:46
make their money. They would just get their money
57:48
in a different way. And I think it, you know, could
57:50
be like maybe a good point of learning for insurance companies
57:53
and people like that. And we've done over the years,
57:56
my marketing agency did a lot of work for a big insurance company
58:00
in the States. And those guys just in the last
58:04
few years have like started offering discounts if you wear
58:06
your Apple Watch every day. They've started doing some
58:09
things like that. You know, they do a little bit
58:10
more preventative work. They pay more for blood tests,
58:13
you know, these kinds of things that are preventative and
58:16
forward-looking instead of, you know, what happened six months
58:19
ago that now we're dealing with. And so I hope that those are
58:21
indicators that things are starting to shift and that we're
58:23
starting to see maybe improvement overall.
58:26
But, you know, I know that at least in this country, we still
58:28
got a long way to go. Yeah, we do.
58:31
So they or a ring compared to a watch, is it less accurate or is
58:39
cuz I I can't stand wearing a watch So if I got that ring,
58:44
same thing or is it Yeah. Yeah, it will give you a lot of
58:48
the information from the ring and it's accurate, but it's not
58:53
giving you the details, you know, all day long.
58:57
So that you would get maybe the probably the same numbers that
59:01
you would get from the aged sleep bed.
59:04
So in the morning you will see the quality of your sleep and
59:09
aura is the best ones on the sleep quality.
59:11
That's that's for sure. And you will get the heart rate
59:14
variability. So it's like going to the
59:18
supermarket and getting the total on your bill while with
59:23
the garment watch, you know that you have all day long, it's like
59:27
you can see the different items that you have been shopping.
59:30
And if you have the aura ring, it's quite hard to understand
59:34
that. OK, the stressful part was
59:36
actually what I was eating for lunch and and it was from 1:00
59:40
PM to 3:00 PM for example, which you would not be able to detect
59:45
from the aura ring. They have some kind of a stress
59:48
system, but it's not good enough.
59:50
So, so probably the best thing to do would be to use the Garmin
59:55
watch for maybe for like 2 months just to find out some
1:00:01
things that could be useful. And then maybe to use aura ring.
1:00:06
And the aura ring is certainly a lot better than guesswork.
1:00:10
So, so I think, I think I use both.
1:00:13
So I have the aura ring and the Garmin watch.
1:00:17
So the ordering is best at night and the garment is the westbound
1:00:20
for the overall and for the daytime.
1:00:22
Yeah. That kind of made me think of
1:00:23
just one quick question and I know we're getting to the end
1:00:26
here, so I'll make this quick. But so is there a big difference
1:00:29
in heart rate variability during the day when you're active and
1:00:33
you're doing things versus at night?
1:00:35
And just for the example that you just gave with the aura ring
1:00:37
and also with the 8 sleep, like my metrics are coming in as I'm
1:00:40
resting, right? So that I'm in sleep mode and
1:00:42
that's what I'm getting this data I'm not really seeing.
1:00:45
I do have a smart watch, but I don't even know if I have a
1:00:47
connection, but you know, like that's my rate during the day.
1:00:51
Would that skew my average one way or another?
1:00:54
Or maybe my 8 sleep data is is OK, but it's not complete
1:00:57
picture. Yeah, so it's not complete.
1:01:00
It's telling you, you know, just like no, you know, you're,
1:01:03
you're seeing the numbers from your bed, but you're, you're
1:01:07
blind to what happened during the day.
1:01:09
So what happened during the day is what will affect what you see
1:01:12
during the night. So, so This is why it would be
1:01:16
very a lot better and easier to find out the reason for these
1:01:21
different variations when you see the day day number from the
1:01:25
stress levels. So, OK, so it's.
1:01:29
Like for somebody like me, like I made the switch some time ago
1:01:31
to start wearing like analog watches instead of smartwatches
1:01:34
because I was so tired of notifications.
1:01:36
But I've been very interested in that whoop strap because I know
1:01:39
it's, you know, it's not necessarily watch, but yeah, I
1:01:42
mean, you wear it like a strap, but it's, you know, but it's a
1:01:45
way that I could keep wearing my watch, but it's still collecting
1:01:48
data. So.
1:01:49
So that might be a good solution for me.
1:01:51
Yeah, you can also use the cheapest Garmin, the Vivo Smart
1:01:55
5, which I think is around $150.00, which would seem like
1:02:00
an activity bracelet. You know, it's not like a like
1:02:03
you're walking around with 2 watches.
1:02:05
You it, it looks more like a, you know, a step counter, you
1:02:08
know, so and you don't have to have the numbers on.
1:02:13
So it will look pretty much like the whoop band.
1:02:16
So, so that could also be a an opportunity.
1:02:21
Yeah, cuz I've seen those Garmin watches and they're really nice
1:02:23
watch. Like, I mean, if I, if I wanted
1:02:25
to wear digital watches and I suppose you don't have to get
1:02:27
all your e-mail and everything on that watch, but that was why
1:02:29
I bailed on my Apple Watch as I was getting too much stuff.
1:02:33
So anyway, cool. All right, well, thank you so
1:02:35
much Torkel. I appreciate your time.
1:02:37
Or Doctor Farrow, I should probably say to be but so, but
1:02:41
we're kind of getting to the end of the show.
1:02:43
Do you want to take a quick minute and just let people know
1:02:44
where they can learn more about you, catch up with you online?
1:02:47
Maybe you buy your book. Yeah, my book, The Post Cure,
1:02:50
they can buy. It's a normal paperback book
1:02:54
they can buy on Amazon or other Internet access outlets.
1:02:59
And it's also an Audible, so they can listen to it.
1:03:02
And if they like to listen to their books instead of reading
1:03:06
it, you know, many that listens to podcasts like to listen to
1:03:09
their books. And they can find me on
1:03:12
Instagram. I'm Doctor Torkel, Dr. Torkel.
1:03:16
I'm on LinkedIn and and so on. So it's possible to find me.
1:03:21
I also have a have a website calledthepostcure.com where I
1:03:24
can also see a video lecture where I'm showing how to use the
1:03:29
Garmin watches and to track their health.
1:03:32
So it's like a one hour free video that they can see.
1:03:36
Love it. Well, thank you so much again.
1:03:39
It's been an enlighten full conversation.
1:03:43
I'm gonna go take a nap now, so. All right.
1:03:49
Well, cool. Well, thank you very much.
1:03:50
Doctor Fair. I appreciate it.
1:03:51
Tape your mouth as well. Will do.
1:03:52
Yeah. I've got a list of things to buy
1:03:55
on Amazon as soon as we go. So thank you so much, Doctor
1:03:59
Fair. I appreciate.
1:04:00
You. Yeah.
1:04:01
Thanks for having me. Thank you.
1:04:02
Absolutely. And thanks so much to everybody
1:04:03
who tunes into the show this week and every week, and we'll
1:04:06
see you guys next.