Latest / Sidewalk Talks / Jeff Larsen talks Food and Imposter Syndrome

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Jeff Larsen talks Food and Imposter Syndrome · Sidewalk Talks

• RS_Jeff Larsen_video_v1 === Phil: [00:00:00] Jeff Larson sidewalk talks in front of fuzzies. Take one. You think that was a loud enough clap to to camera? Sweet. Jeff Larson, I'm so happy to talk to you. Look at you. You just like a smiling, happy, funny guy. Jeff: I am always willing to talk Phil. In fact. That's true. I think people sometimes avoid me because, so back when I was selling cars that terrible, terrible year of my life when I was selling cars, one of, uh, the other salesman nicknamed me long stories and I think it was meant as an insult. Jeff: It is still my handle on some, Phil: I do wanna say that tracks because, um. Of all the people that I was like, Hey, let's do a sidewalk talk. You sent me the longest message about what you wanted to talk about. Like I sent you that text and you [00:01:00] sent me a reply back and I looked at this giant wall of texts. I said, I'll read that later. Phil: So that tracks, yeah. You had to sell cars. I did. Yeah. No offense to people who love selling cars. That's super cool. But it sounds terrible to me. Like Jeff: I just, like I couldn't do it. Yeah, it was tough. Yeah. Um. You know, it's great organization. Uh, I was, I was part of the Garber family. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. Heck yeah. Jeff: Garber. You guys rock. And, uh, it was all Jimmy's doing. Um Oh really? Phil: Jimmy Green? Jeff: Yeah. He said, uh, because I had been a teacher, got out of education. Yeah. And, um, his daughter was in my class and so I, I knew Jimmy that way. And I said, dude, I'm leaving education. I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life. Jeff: Yeah. He said, he said, you should work for Garber. And he, I said, I'm never gonna sell cars. He said, do it for the organization, not the job. Heck yeah. Um, but unfortunately I treated it like a job, so I never really went all in. Yeah. Um, I, I knew that it [00:02:00] was a temporary thing and, and it lasted a year. I tried to quit three times and they talked me out of it every really time and then. Jeff: Finally, they were like, dude, you're just not selling cars. Phil: I was like, see, they gave you three chances of finally like, no, this is better for everybody if you just go see. And I think that that's my issue with it. Like I just, I wouldn't do a good job of it. Somebody would come in and say like, yeah, we're thinking about buying this truck. Phil: And it was like, cool. Let's do it. And they're like, well, I need to go back and talk to my wife. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Jeff: And I was, you know, I, I was such an empath. I'm, I'm trying to give away cars, you know? Yeah. Uhhuh, um, which I'll cut you a deal. Yeah. Which will pay for your ramen, but not your steak. Phil: Right. Phil: Right. Um, one of the many things that you sent me about what you wanted to talk about was Detroit style versus New York style versus Chicago style pizza. Of those three, which one is the champion and why? Oh, Detroit style. Why? Why [00:03:00] do you say that? I mean, I love Detroit. No offense. Detroit. Yeah, so Jeff: like the, the square and the deep dish where you get like that crispy grease on the great bread. Jeff: I'm a, I'm such a bread fan, and so when you get more bread and, and more of the right style of crunch, like I don't. I, I don't like the thin crust. Like I'm not trying to eat my pizza on a saltine, you know? Phil: Well, the New Yorkers just groan at you right now. I heard it. Jeff: That's fine. That's fine. Enjoy Brooklyn. Phil: That's, well, you know, old World Pizzeria has a really killer deep dish. Good. When he has it, like it's, he has this killer deep dish, like square style. Yeah. Yeah. And it is like fluffy, like a cloud. I eat that deep dish. Yeah. And I'm crazy about it. And typically I'm not, but Jeff: okay. I've not had that. And yeah, and, and listen, like saying that one is better than the others does not mean I will not partake of the others Fair. Jeff: But fair. Um, and Old World's got great pizza. I mean, [00:04:00] old world. Yeah. Eric, you do a good job. Yeah. People are Phil: probably sick of me talking about. Eric and his pizza, but I'm just gonna keep doing it. I don't care what you guys think. Jeff: Yeah. Part of my old words world story is your brother. I was like, are you Phil? Jeff: Not Phil. Oh, Phil: that's right. Yeah. We get that a lot like going to Red Eye, like right after each other and the barista's like. Wow. You, you're back again. Yeah. Jeff: I'll, uh, last time I saw him actually was at the Red Eye, and I chose not to engage. I was like, oh, really? Respect to space, you know, like I was trying to make this eye contact. Jeff: Yeah. And he and, and we made it quickly. Yeah. And it, it looked like he had no idea what, who I was. I was like. Okay, so either that's, uh, that's not Phil or that's condescending. I don't have time for the stories, Phil. Phil: I actually, I, I, I have gotten messages like that where, um, I, like a message will pop up on Messenger and somebody will be like, Hey, Phil. Phil: Uh, saw you at Red Eye this morning, but he acted like he didn't know me, and I was just [00:05:00] wondering if like, we're, we're still cool and I have to go through this explanation of like, I do have an identical twin brother and I send them a photo for proof so they know I'm not just lying to them, so I should, it's not that he's rude. Phil: No. You know, but he just doesn't know you. Yeah, exactly. I should have him on a sidewalk talk just to say like everybody, this is Matt and I am Phil, and yes, he is my twin. Just to introduce him to the world. So, uh, what do you think about the food scene in Saginaw? Jeff: I Phil: think Jeff: it's awesome. Phil: It is awesome. Yeah. Jeff: Awesome. I mean, there awesome. There's so much to choose from. Um, not necessarily on a Monday, but fair. But it's, uh, you know, it, my part of my favorite thing about the food scene in Saginaw is just like I was talking about, you know, I've run into your brother at Old World and mm-hmm. Read, like if you get into the food scene in Saginaw, it's like, cheers. Jeff: Yes. It's like, yes, you know? Where everybody knows your name. I remember the very first time I went to [00:06:00] bring her in. And I was like, I don't even know what is happening right now. Phil: It's like a family reunion, like you go walking into somebody's kitchen. Like, like Jeff: four of the most important meetings that were going to happen in Saginaw that day were happening right then and there. Phil: Just out in the open. Jeff: Yeah. Phil: You, you know, I got involved in riverfront at Bringer Inn. I met really Wayne Hoffman for the first time at Bringer in, we had kind of, we had become Facebook friends. Mm-hmm. Really didn't know each other. We, we kind of liked. What, what we were talking about and we're like, you, we should meet up. Phil: And we met at, bring her in, drinking some coffee, eating omelets and he's like, did you hear that riverfront, Saginaw is looking for some help? And I was like. What is Riverfront? Saal. Yeah. And he explained it to me and I thought it was super cool. I was just, I was working with small businesses at the time. Phil: Only didn't even think about working with communities. And I I, I was like, this sounds super cool. I like, I was like, where this is going? And he said, well, you better hurry up 'cause uh, [00:07:00] proposals are due tomorrow. So I ran back to my office and I sat at my desk and I was like, how? Like, how would I go about marketing a city, a fairly complicated city with 50,000 people? Phil: Like how would you do that? And I sit in there and I said, uh, human faces, human stories. Like if, if the thing about Saginaw is its people, why don't we show its people to the world? Yeah. And that was the forward proposal. And here we are. And it happened at bring her in because of the food scene. Jeff: My Wayne story, uh, Elena. Jeff: Introduced Wayne to me at Donovan New Day. Oh, really? Yeah. And what, see some of the takeaways from that were he did, he agreed to wear pink and raise money. That's right. Um, and, and it gave like the update on the SVRC marketplace. Yeah. Which my wife got involved with helping open that. And so, yeah. I Phil: love it. Phil: Yeah. Miss you Dons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The, the food. I love that you [00:08:00] pointed out that the food scene in Saginaw is, feels like cheers because I was going to say, considering the size of mm-hmm. Saginaw, like people think, look, Saginaw, you're so huge. But thinking like City of Saginaw, not that huge thinking old town downtown, all very comparatively small. Phil: You think about like even just old town. Like the two or three blocks, like the food there. Pongs and Old world. Yeah. And Artisan and Alias. And you got Panda House and all like all of these great places. I'm sorry if I left you out. You go over to downtown, you got SVRC and you got 10, 15 different places to eat there. Phil: Yeah. So considering the size, the food is killer, but then you run into everybody that you know, wherever you go because the city is very small and it just feels very cool. Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and you know Hamilton Street? Yeah. You got Valerie's across from Yes. Vale's marketplace. Yes. All those trash Phil: can nachos. Phil: Oh Jeff: yeah. Uh, we didn't even [00:09:00] in the text we talked about, uh, halal munchies. Yes, halal munchies. You guys crush it. I've never added a euro that I couldn't finish before it. It was, it's gigantic. It's Phil: awesome. Yeah. I get the lamb over rice almost every time I go. Because it's just, it's so, it's so killer. I'm gonna say I was a little bit skeptical at first. Phil: Yeah. I was like, ah. Like, I don't know. Like I'm very dedicated to all the places that I eat. I don't know if I can stray. Yeah. And I'm so glad that I did it. Paid off. Have you done Jeff: the lamb kebabs at uh. Retro Rocks. No. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Retro Rocks. You guys Phil: have a killer menu too. I love the, I love the uniqueness of Retro Rock's menu. Phil: 'cause like, you go there and it, you're not, you're not going to eat. I mean, you, I, you could eat a cheeseburger, but they've got like, fun stuff that you, you won't eat anywhere else. Yeah. So good job ev everybody. Good job. City of Saginaw in your food scene. I love it. On the other spectrum. Uh, food health. Phil: Yeah. You work for the [00:10:00] Great Lake Bay Health Centers? Jeff: Yes. Doing what? I am the tell what you do. I'm the Chief Growth and Development officer. Oh, Google it. There is not another chief growth. Like, however, however the leadership came up with that title. Like super unique. Well, Phil: whatever it is you're doing is working. Phil: 'cause you guys are growing. Jeff: We are. We're, um. Yeah. It, whatever it's, you do, it's, it's not an easy time to grow either. Right. Um, yeah. You know, there, there's interesting things that are going on. Um, but, but we are growing because we need to grow. We're, yeah. If, if people don't know who we are or what we do, and we get that a lot. Jeff: Yes. Yeah. Please explain. Give us a 1 0 1. You, you compete against, uh, the hospitals. Well, no, like we, we don't have any overnight, we compete against primary care offices. Right. Um, but even then we don't, we. We are here to serve the underserved, underinsured, and uninsured population. So, uh, so many [00:11:00] people that if they're looking for a family doctor, they call around, oh, we don't take your insurance, or, or you don't even have an insurance so you can't come here. Jeff: Mm-hmm. And no, I don't blame them. They have to work with their reimbursement model. We are set up differently where that's, that's our, our ideal patient, right? Mm-hmm. Um. Yes, we're gonna lose money on every single patient we see. We're actually cool with that because we get some base funding from the federal government and have some other things with like our pharmacy rates and things that, yeah, that can help make us whole. Jeff: But every gear is a, okay, how are we gonna do this, um, process. But we, we look at. Data that tells us how many people exist in that population. And it's three times the number that we can actually care for right now. Wild. And so, um, wild. So we need to, you know, in, in Uptown Bay City, we are. Uh, [00:12:00] building a new building that should be open about a year from now, that is going to more than double our capacity in Bay City. Jeff: Awesome. And, and so when this Medical Diamond thing came to us, it was really weird. We. We went to certain events and sometimes our logo was on there and we were in our feelings, like we haven't committed to that yet. And then we go to the next meeting and our logo's not on there and we're in our feelings like, Hey, we're part of this. Jeff: We wanna be part of this Phil: too. Jeff: Um, but we have committed to that. And, uh, and what's helping make that possible is we actually got, uh, we're a recipient of some ARPA dollars from the city. And the goal for us specifically is a behavioral health center of excellence. Very cool. So it's such a huge need and, and we're doing behavioral health, uh, around, but we don't have any dedicated space on the east side. Jeff: And so that's really, [00:13:00] really important for us. Um, we will expand our, uh, our offering for primary care as well, because there's still access issues there. We're talking about some other things, some collaborative projects, and we'll put a pharmacy there because access to medication and an affordable medication is a huge thing. Jeff: But, um, that. It's really interesting because it is a top of mind thing for so many. I mean, the, the need to raise funds, you know, uh, donors are, are trying to figure out, hey, you know, people are asking us about medical diamond money and which part of it, because there's so many different parts of it. Jeff: Mm-hmm. Um, so trying to make things clear for donors that want to help make this happen. Um, what does it. What does it actually mean? When is it going to happen? And, and what's it going to look like? And, uh, the when for us, um, we are [00:14:00] going to be in a space that is. Has yet to be a final design, but what we've seen so far is it will include us and then a, a vestibule dividing us and the county health department. Jeff: Mm-hmm. And then within that same structure, uh, some interior parking, uh, ramp type style. And then I think that the, the housing short and long term housing and some mixed use retail space. Is all going to be in that. And that will probably be the first structure to break down, break ground. Cool. As soon as maybe spring of next year. Jeff: Woo. Um, and then S-V-S-U-I know is planning to be part of it, right? Obviously. Um, CMU bringing the med school here is part of that. And they've had some leadership change. So some of that is, is getting a little more clear. Like, like it was clear than it [00:15:00] wasn't. Yeah. Now it's getting there again. Phil: Yeah. I, I love this and, and this conversation connects so strongly to a recent conversation I had with Tina Swanton, uh, with the Saginaw Community Food Club and Kitchen in that like. Phil: One of the, one of the big conversations in Saginaw is like, how do we serve the underserved? Yeah. Yeah. And the food club is such a great way to do like, access to quality food has been a conversation for so long. And she said a lot of like similar things is like the food club is not in competition with, uh, hidden Harvest or East Side Food Kitchen No. Phil: Or anything like that. Um, they are absolutely necessary emergency food services. We serve Alice population that. Need a different kind of service. Or they can go to East Side when they run out of food and then they can come here and shop at a grocery store. And so it's very a cooperative, collaborative effort to say, [00:16:00] how can we serve the underserved? Phil: And when you're talking about what Great Lakes Bay Health Center does, it's like we're, we're not competing against hospitals. We're not competing against primary care. What we're doing is we're serving the underserved and saying, you. As a human being, deserve the right to good quality healthcare to good low cost quality medications. Phil: Like you should have access to that. Yeah. And you shouldn't have to drive 10 miles to do it and 20 it should be on your side of the river. Yep. On the other side of the river within walking distance, close to public transportation, all of those things. And that's exactly what you guys are doing. Yeah. And I Jeff: love Phil: it. Jeff: And, and the hospitals love us as well, right? Yeah, I believe it. Yeah. Um, it, you think about the patients that we serve and. How frequently, um, if, if those patients are out of a care routine and then they finally decide, Hey, I need to, I need to get healthy again, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or I've got this nagging thing that I need to deal with. Jeff: Um, [00:17:00] if they don't have an existing relationship with, uh, a medical provider and we do dental and we do eye care and we do, uh. We do more than there's time on, on a sidewalk talk part. We do a lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, but, but the, the hospital doesn't want that individual to come to the er. Yes. Right. Jeff: Because it's not an emergency. Mm-hmm. And it, it is for them. That's valid. But, but it's not traditionally an emergency. You know, they're, they didn't, they don't have a massive ga gaping wound. Yeah. They didn't have a heart attack. Right. You know? Um, so. It, it's really exp expense. You know, part of what we are navigating right now is some federal changes to Medicaid. Jeff: And why is Medicaid so expensive? Why is the government spending so much of it? Um, so much money on Medicaid. It's a lot of it is because, so we care as [00:18:00] federally qualified health centers across the country. We care for 20% of the Medicaid population and our reimbursement, our total. Portion of Medicaid costs is 2.3%. Jeff: So we're super efficient with those government dollars. And hospitals don't have the luxury of being efficient mm-hmm. In that way financially. True. They have to spend what they have to spend. And so when, when folks that have, I, I'm saying Medicaid a lot, right? That's like half of our. Of our patients. So the biggest portion of it, uh, when they're coming to see us, they're going to the hospital less. Jeff: That's helping the hospitals stay efficient. That's helping mm-hmm. Federal dollars stay efficient. Like we are the Phil: answer. Like it's also, uh, helping other community members. Yeah. 'cause now when I, when I am facing an emergency. Uh, I can go to the emergency room and I don't have to wait two [00:19:00] hours because there's less people waiting for things that shouldn't, right. Phil: Needs that shouldn't be met Exactly. In the emergency room. And so it helps the community at large. Yeah. It affects all of us. Yeah. So, Jeff: yeah, he, he humbly said, worthy solution, Phil: we are the solution. Um, I, I'm interested to talk to you about this because like, just listening to you speak. And the, the role that you play with Great Lakes Bay Health Center is like, you're, you're a very qualified person. Phil: Like you're, you're like, and, and I've always respected that about you. Like you, you, you're a professional and you're smart, and you, you're like, you know what you're doing. And I, I heard you chuckle when I said that because like, one of the things that you, you threw in, in this giant list of things you wanted to talk about, like some of them completely nonsensical. Phil: You, you throw in, you threw in an imposter syndrome. Yeah. Tell, tell me why. Because, Jeff: uh, that is such a thing that I have battled [00:20:00] and I've talked to other people that have battled it. People that are absolute pillars that are like, oh, I don't know if I can do this. Yeah. Um, but I spent, you know, I, there's, I'm not going to disrespect people and call it PTSD, but I've, I. Jeff: If you've had bad experiences, if you've faced rejection and who hasn't, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If you have ever felt like you weren't good enough for something, um, man, that can stay with you for a long time. Mm-hmm. And so when I applied for this job, I actually applied for it two years before it was posted. Jeff: Mm. Um, and then, and then when they finally posted it and. Uh, and Monica, who, who works for me now, sent me a message like, Hey, this is, this is online. Will you come be my boss? And I thought, whew. Like, okay, I have a job that I like. Mm-hmm. I, I, I really, really, I like is [00:21:00] underselling it. I loved my job with American Cancer Society and so. Jeff: It felt like this. Shoot your shot moment. Like, I've got nothing to lose. Um, if I wouldn't have gotten it, I absolutely would've said valid. And then been in my feelings for Phil: a long time. You're right. And then I would've cried for the next four months. Yes. Jeff: Um, but I got it. And, and I thought, oh my gosh. Like, when are they gonna figure out that I don't know what I'm doing? Jeff: Yeah. And, uh, our CEO jokingly, we do 90 day reviews with, um. With all new staff, and mine was on like a day 88 or 89, and she had no ill intentions, but she joked like. Oh, well, it's, it's not been 90 days, so I, I can fire you for nothing right now. And I was like, Phil: oh my gosh, this is how you're telling that you're gonna Jeff: do it. Jeff: And, and I would've been like, yeah, that, that sounds right. But, um, we do leadership training at work [00:22:00] and, and we have to talk about imposter syndrome. Yeah. Um, and we've got quotes from Maya Angelou that says, every time she sends a book to the publisher, she thinks. This is the one where they're gonna find out that, I don't know. Jeff: Mm-hmm. Frigging Maya Angelou, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, the CEO of Starbucks, um, Albert Einstein Yep. Didn't think that he could cut it. So we've got quotes from these people that are legends and absolutely crushing it, who just at the heart of it, really don't believe in themselves. Yeah. And so empowering people to reflect and be like. Jeff: You didn't get here on accident. Like we are, we are all good enough at our jobs that we saw who you are when we hired you. Mm-hmm. And we knew that you weren't perfect, but, but you're, you're perfect for this role right now. Yeah. Um, and, and your journey. You're walking down the road [00:23:00] like we are. We are here for what you're gonna become, but we're here for what you are right now. Jeff: And, and just investing in people and helping people believe and really flipping that switch. I remember having a specific thought, um, on a day where I was kind of not believing in myself and thinking like. Man, there are so many people in this community that would be better at my job than me. Mm-hmm. Um, which is still super true. Jeff: Right. Um, if they ever wanted to upgrade, the talent is here, but, but. You have options. I remember sitting in a meeting and, and thinking about, you know, different people's style at the table and, and none of them were big on communication. And I was like, oh, okay, so there are people better in the community for my job, but there's not better people in the organization. Jeff: Yeah. For my job, because [00:24:00] nobody wanted to talk to each other. And I was like, okay, I'm. I, I use the term you've met Angela Williams. Yeah. Yeah. Um, she is absolutely delightful. I love Phil: you. She's amazing. Yeah. Jeff: Um, and, and she's on social media, but like, not in a way that you can ever see her. So she may see this, so, Hey Angela, love you. Jeff: Love you. But I used a term with her, so she's been a nurse for 40 years and I said. I like to be social lubricant. She's like, she can never look at me the same way because, you know, you just can't disassociate that second word. Yes. Jeff: I love it. I swear this is still a family show. Phil: Yeah. We can still retain our PG rating. Um, I, I, I love what you're saying and, um, I had somebody. I had somebody kind of reframe it a little bit for me in that, um, I, I was, [00:25:00] year or so ago, I was, I was going through a really intense kind of emotional time with the work and like, it's, it's very public work and so that kind of holds you up to a lot of. Phil: Public criticism. And, and I take it very personally, like it, it's something that I've tried to work on and I just, I can't, I can't shake it. And, uh, I was, I was in the depths and I was, I was texting my friend Ben Majo, uh, who also works with communities across the country, and he, and I was just like, I wish, like I wish that I could just have the thick skin that everybody talks about. Phil: I wish I could just not care. Mm. And. He sent me a message back, I see the little.dot dots, and he sends me a, a message back and he said, I don't know if I wanna feel like that. Wow. And like, immediately my, my entire concept of like. What the solution [00:26:00] was flipped upside down. Because like up until that point I was, I was desperately trying to solve this problem. Phil: Like, Phil, you gotta be less sensitive, Phil, you gotta be less empathetic. You gotta be professional, you gotta grow this thick skin, you, you gotta care less. Like all of those things, like that's the solution. And when he said that to me, it really directed me towards like. N no. Like your, like this thing that you're looking at as a weakness is your strength. Phil: Mm-hmm. And like you, instead of always trying to run away from that hurt that you're feeling, you maybe should just accept like that's, that's always going to be present. Yeah. Like you're, you are always gonna take that personally because the part of you that. Takes that criticism personally, whether it's self-directed or directed by others. Phil: That part of you that takes that criticism personally is the same part of you that allows you to be empathetic and understanding and [00:27:00] communicate with people and care about people in a different way. And, and I, I think about that when we talk about imposter syndrome. It's like, yeah, maybe instead of trying to convince yourself like. Phil: And say, well, I'm absolutely qualified and I should be proud. You should be proud, and you are likely very qualified, and you do need to say those things. But at the same time, like maybe look at that kind of never ending quest, right? To be more qualified and to be better. As one of the superpowers because as soon as that goes away, you become a person who, who does not care about what they do, does not care about improving, does not care about adapting or serving people better or at a greater scale or in different ways. Phil: And so maybe embrace that part of you that makes you feel bad. And so that, that Ben mojo, like we, I think that was a brilliant response. And yeah, that's what I encourage people. I I love Jeff: that. Um. You know, turn that into fuel, into drive, yes. Into [00:28:00] ambition to, to get better and silence your own critic. Yeah. Jeff: You know, um, I think where. Where imposter syndrome can be really damaging is when you turn it into, like analysis paralysis Yes. On yourself, right? Yep. If, if you stop because you don't think you're good enough, then that that hurts you and it hurts everybody else. Like, go get it. Like, like go to the, the, the furthest degree that you're capable, which is farther than you think you're capable. Jeff: Yeah. And then when you get there, ask somebody. Yeah. Like ask somebody else for help. Phil: Yep. Yeah. Be humble. Give yourself permission to act and be a little bit messy like that. I love the, that you said like the analysis paralysis, like perfection is, is the enemy of good. Yeah. Like, you just, like, if you, if you're trying to to be perfect and right in every single case, it's not gonna work. Phil: So get out there, do your thing. [00:29:00] Ask somebody for help, for advice. Who can I partner up with? And then do it again better and do it again better, and do it again better. So I, I love that. Speaking of imposter syndrome. Um, here at the end, I, one of the situations that we're both mutually in is being a father and that, like becoming a father really confronts you with, with all these different elements of like, am I who I say I am and can I actually do this? Phil: And you had a bonus child and you're like, oh my goodness. Like, what is happening to my life right now before I let you go? What would be one piece of advice? Because you're a more experienced veteran father than myself. What would be one piece of advice you would give me as a father that you've learned? Jeff: Ooh. Does it apply to twins? Because I, I don't like, probably not. It's completely different. You're a frigging superhero. Like I, I, it's my Phil: wife. It's my wife and my family. They do it. They do it. I just sit on sidewalks and talk to microphone. Yes. [00:30:00] Jeff: So to, to help the people that don't know. We, my wife and I have been married 23 years. Jeff: 23 glorious years. Oh. We have a 19-year-old who is starting sophomore year at SVSU. Uh, we've got a 16-year-old who's starting his junior year, and then we've got a three yearold. Like same two people. Right. Got rid of everything. Like always wanted another kid. It wasn't happening, uh, our time for you. I would, I would die. Jeff: Yeah. I would just Phil: fade away into dust. Jeff: My wife cried for two weeks. Phil: We wont show this to your three year olds. Yeah, you can watch it. Jeff: Oh, she'll know. She'll know. Um, but it's so cool because. Number one, it's like a time machine, right? Like you look at our daughter Violet, and you're like, man, that's, that's Lily 16 years ago. Jeff: Yeah, right? Um, so you get to relive it, you get to do things a little different. You get to, [00:31:00] to use what you've learned. And then you get to find out that what you've learned doesn't matter because this child is unique, right? Yeah. Everybody is their own person. And so what works, it's a huge lesson in life. Jeff: Like we, we try to have the same, I try to have the same conversation with you that I'm gonna have with somebody later on today, and it's not gonna land the same because you're different people, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, you. Just observe that, that would be my, my, my advice is just observe like the wonder of just watched Fantastic four. Jeff: Yeah. Uh, and of. I'm not gonna spoil it. The baby's important. Okay. Um, so you, you, you just watch and, and learn who they are and who they're becoming and, um, you know, when they say your [00:32:00] name 12 times in a row, in, in 12 seconds. Mm-hmm. Like, why did they do that? Yeah. Oh, it's because it's because they want a, you know, they are going to be honest about their needs. Jeff: Uhhuh, um, it, it'll sound a little different. You've gotta figure out how to, to translate it, but if you're really listening, they'll, they tell you everything. Yes. Yeah. You just have to have to hear it. And so. If you, if you try to just go through life with it happening on the side or as a, you know, uh, occasional thing that you're attentive to. Jeff: Um, it's gonna get frustrating Yeah. For them, for you. But if you, if you really listen, if you take a beat to stop what you're doing to stop, um, any other distractions and just give your all to them for a while, you'll [00:33:00] have this connection that, uh, is gonna last longer than anything else. Phil: Such brilliant advice. Phil: 'cause it's so easy, especially when. You're in periods of fatigue and overwhelm and stress and, and busyness, um, to just react. Mm-hmm. And, and instead of, and when you say observe, I love the how it really encourages you to check that initial reflex and reaction and just say like, why are they saying that? Phil: Uh, it happened to me yesterday. Uh, I'm down in the kitchen sitting at the table and my daughter Evelyn, is upstairs in her room. And I'm talking to, uh, my wife and Evelyn goes, I hear her say, dad, dad, dad. And I'm getting, I'm getting annoyed because I'm, I'm talking, and here she like, she's interrupting me again for the, the 13th whatever, and dad, and I'm like, what? Phil: And she goes, I love you.[00:34:00] Phil: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, uh, when you're saying observe, it's like, well, like why did she do that? Right? Like she, she, she wanted to make sure that I was still there. She wanted to say, I love you, and I should have checked myself and said, you know, I, I should have reacted better. So I, I, I think that's such brilliant advice. Phil: I think you are such a brilliant. Person, Jeff Larson, I wanna thank you so much for this delightful sidewalk talk buddy. It has been great. Thank you so much. Jeff: Thank you. Phil: You are awesome. Heck yeah. It was a blast. Yeah. Heck yeah. I love that conversation, bro.