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Understanding the Age of Accountability: A Deep Dive · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  Music.
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  To flavor, to be pleased or gratified by, enjoy.
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  We are hoping that what we bring to your table today might add some spice to your life.
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  So how are you doing, Rowan? I'm doing pretty good, Don.
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  Good to see you. I'm Don Patterson. This is Rowan. And we're doing on the Tales of Team Ed.
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  We're thinking we might relish the thought, but we're working on some of those things.
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  So Rowan is here. He's going to do much what Alex has done in the past.
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  And let's see how it goes.
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  Yep. So Rowan, you got a question? I do. I have multiple. Do you have,
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  oh, gracious sakes. Yep.
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  Okay. Katie, bar the door. We're ready. All right. First question.
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  What is the age of accountability and what happens to those under the age when they die?
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  Okay. Well, age of accountability is something that we use mainly because we
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  know we all grow up, right?
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  And some of us are smarter at a certain age than another.
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  So we talk about the age of accountability as that age when you're actually
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  accountable for your own decisions.
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  Mommy and daddy aren't necessarily. So if you do something really terribly bad,
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  then it is your butt that gets burned instead of theirs.
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  And so the age of accountability, when we start talking about the kingdom of
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  God, is used by those of us who are believers, have baptism,
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  basically, as a spot where if you
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  decide that you're going to follow Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior,
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  you can make that decision because you've reached the age of accountability.
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  That varies in different groups. Some of it's 10, sometimes it's 13.
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  We hear the psychological community says it's 27.
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  That's when the frontal lobe is fully developed of the brain.
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  And so maybe we should bump it off until you're 27.
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  But it's basically, and even in Jesus' time, it was around the age of 13.
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  Because that's when they did the bar mitzvah, and that's when they did their
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  learning. And that's when they passed from childhood to manhood. Our woman.
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  So that's what we call the age of accountability, much like they did in Jesus' time.
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  Okay. So then if, say, a 10-year-old or do have passed away,
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  then what happens to them? Oh, yeah.
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  I'm sorry. I didn't catch that part of it. No.
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  Because we, in the Anabaptist tradition, would say that they are saved because
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  they were not yet to that age when they could be accountable for their actions.
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  And so rather than going the original sin, yes, they sinned,
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  they did bad things, but God's grace covers them.
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  And we do that by going to places like Matthew 18, where Jesus takes the little
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  child and puts him on his lap. And he says, and he called the little child and
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  had him stand among them.
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  And he said, I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little
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  children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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  So he's assuming the little child is good for the kingdom of heaven right there.
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  Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
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  And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.
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  So it seems like Jesus' welcome is open for the kid, open for the child.
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  So that's why many of our churches go the age of accountability being that age by which they are.
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  They take the consequences for their own sin. All right. And so then before
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  that time, they're under the grace of God and the kingdom of heaven.
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  And that's sort of how we work those two. When we talk about it in Anabaptist circles.
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  Makes sense. I hope so. That's the way we've been doing it for a long time now. 500 years.
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  Yeah. We celebrate 500 years in January.
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  Yeah. So then, next question. How do you interpret 1 Timothy 2, 8 through 15?
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  I guess we'll have to look it up first, don't we?
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  1 Timothy 2, 8 through 13.
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  Evidently, I've been there before it almost opened up to it.
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  I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing.
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  Well, that's pretty straightforward.
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  Yeah. Yeah. We shouldn't be beating up each other at church.
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  Verse 9, I also want women to dress modestly with decency and propriety,
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  not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,
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  but with good deeds appropriate for women who profess to worship God. And you went to 13?
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  15. 15, okay, the whole thing. Oh my, yeah, this has to do with women in ministry, I bet.
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  Yeah. Well, we actually had a study on this not long ago, and we cannot deny
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  in our day or even back to the time of the New Testament, I'd even go back to the time of Deborah,
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  that gifts are given to women,
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  ministerial gifts, gifts are given
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  to women to be used by the community of faith. You can't get past that.
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  I think what we're looking at in this situation in 1 Timothy is a unique situation that,
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  Paul's saying, you know, given the women you got in your church, they better be quiet.
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  Because we also know when we go to Romans 15, 16, that Paul includes couples
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  when he's talking about those churches.
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  Priscilla and Aquila in Acts, it was Acts 14, when they talked to Apollos,
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  they're working together as a couple.
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  Yeah. And so it seems to me that there's a place for women in the church to
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  team with the guys with them to do ministry.
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  But it seems like Paul would say, not in the lead position.
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  That they're to be used for ministry, but not in the lead position. Okay.
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  That's what I get. Yeah. And I think we need to be nudged maybe to use it more,
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  because if we don't use it in a good, proper way, then things seem to go maybe in a bad way.
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  They'll either create parallel ministries, which is all right,
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  or there's some women who are powerful enough to use their men in ministry.
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  In other words, so she'll make sure that her husband gets a key position in the church, and then...
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  In the background to make sure what she wants is put in place.
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  We call it Jezebel situation, Ahab-Jezebel situation.
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  Those are dangerous situations. And so I would nudge us to use women in a proper, formal way,
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  affirm their gifts and abilities to be used in the congregation so it's a very
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  positive situation for everybody around because those gifts were given to women
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  for a reason, just like Deborah's.
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  Deborah's gift was given to her for a reason, because it was needed.
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  And Barak was not going to go to war. He wasn't going to do his part.
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  Deborah was needed to get God's will done. And when he didn't step up,
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  God even had a word for that.
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  And so actually the victory was given through another woman.
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  So I think that those are good cautions for the church to be looking at.
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  Yeah. So, like, keep in mind that through these letters is written to a church
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  rather than, like, in general, so you can't. Yeah, specifically to the church
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  that Timothy was bishop over, which probably was Ephesus at the time.
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  Ephesus, yeah. So, at the end there, verse 15, it says that she will be saved
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  through childbearing. What does that mean?
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  Well, I think that's Paul's way of sticking it to that church.
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  I mean, he could have gone a long way in this generation if he hadn't put that
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  verse in, because that's saying basically she's saved through childbearing. Yeah.
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  As if she couldn't have salvation on her own.
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  I think maybe he overstated that just a little bit.
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  There's another spot that says husbands will be saved by the wives' commitment to God.
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  And so, yeah, I think that would probably be a statement specifically for Ephesus,
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  the church that Timothy was a bishop at at the time.
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  All right. That's where I would take that, interpret it for the moment.
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  Okay. What do you think? Did that get it? I answered what I had,
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  yeah. Okay. That's a salty question, Rowan.
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  You're getting good. All right. Moving on.
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  If you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, but you don't make an effort to live
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  out how Jesus lived, if you don't live out what Jesus has for you in your life,
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  then are you still saved?
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  Yes, still saved. but I think 1 Corinthians 3 says it probably better than I can say it.
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  It's saved as if going through fire.
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  So if you go to 1 Corinthians 3, and I believe it's...
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  Okay, so this is talking about a situation where they're comparing ministries,
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  and the ministry comparison is saying, okay, because I follow so-and-so, I'm saved.
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  I'm more saved than you're saved because I follow so-and-so.
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  And that's the discussion going on in chapter 3.
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  But what happens is, then it goes on in verse 11, no man can lay any foundation
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  other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
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  All of our salvation, yours, mine, Aunt Susie's, all has to do with being laid
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  in Jesus Christ. That's the bottom line.
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  Salvation is through Jesus Christ alone, no other. So then it goes on in verse 12,
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  if any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver costly
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  stones wood hay or straw his work will be
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  shown for the day for what it is and so
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  okay look at those there's six elements
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  there gold silver costly stones wood
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  hay or straw when you put fire to those six elements what's going to be left
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  wood hay or straw doesn't really go well with fire it sort of leaves gold silver
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  in your stones but gold silver and and stones will last through the fire.
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  In fact, gold and silver are refined by fire and made better by fire. Okay.
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  And their day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire and fire
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  will test the quality of each man's work, which is basically what you're talking,
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  his discipleship. Yeah.
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  If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
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  If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. In other words, he won't get what was on top.
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  It will be burned up, but he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
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  So basically, our discipleship is that which we build upon our salvation in Jesus Christ.
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  It's the things that we do beyond our salvation. It's the things we learn beyond our salvation.
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  Most of us, when we accept Christ as Savior, get some kind of passion because
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  it's the heart of Christ in us.
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  And we'll want to do something that reflects this commitment and this grace
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  that God's put into our lives.
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  And so we'll invest in it, and it'll be part of who we are and what we do.
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  I've seen accountants in the church who are driven to do that kind of work for
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  the kingdom of God because that's their gift, that's their ability.
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  I've seen others who speak and use the pulpit as a spot where they use that.
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  I've seen people in IT who use their gifts in IT to get the message of Christ out.
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  Those are the things they're putting on top of their foundation.
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  Some people will learn the scriptures and teach in seminaries and use their
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  knowledge as a way of expanding the kingdom of God.
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  So, will they be saved? Yes.
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  But it needs to be with the understanding that while they aren't losing their
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  salvation, they're also not doing much with it. Yeah.
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  And that's sad. Yeah.
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  Part of that is like you get your salvation, but then you have to refine it and refine your faith.
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  So then you can go out and make those disciples.
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  Because if you have no basis of your faith, then you have nothing to stand on.
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  But I'd also nudge that faith is something that grows.
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  It's not stagnant. It's not a one time and we just put it on the line and we're there.
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  I have found in my own personal life that my faith continues to grow.
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  And if you go to Hebrews chapter six, there's five elements talked about here
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  in our experience with Christ.
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  And then it says, it's impossible if you fall away.
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  So in Hebrews chapter six, verses four, it says, it's impossible for those who
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  have once been enlightened,
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  that's one, who have tasted the heavenly gift, that's two,
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  who have shared in the Holy Spirit, that's three, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God,
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  that's four, and the powers of the coming age, that's five things,
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  five things, if they fall away to be brought back to repentance,
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  because to their loss, they're crucifying the son of God all over again and
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  subjecting him to public disgrace.
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  And so this has been used on both sides of the fence saying,
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  okay, if you didn't have all five, were you saved?
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  And the other side says, well, if you had all five, you couldn't be lost.
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  I mean i mean it's sort of both sides of the same coin i
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  think what we're living in is the fact that we grow in these five things
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  in our christian faith and i'm
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  not sure that any of us live long enough to exhaust all five all five of those
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  once been enlightened okay that's seeing christ as lord and savior in my term
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  yeah have tasted the heavenly gift i don't know whether that is tongues or what kind of gift it is.
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  Maybe it's gifts of Galatians 520, those gifts of the Spirit,
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  who have shared in the Holy Spirit, that Holy Spirit experience,
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  who have tasted the goodness of the Word of God.
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  And boy, if you're a student of the Word, you realize that the Word blesses you every day.
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  The deeper you get into it, the more it blesses you.
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  And the power of the coming age, I think that's more like what Paul is talking
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  about in Revelation, in 1 Thessalonians and in 1 Corinthians 15,
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  about that future that we have as Christians.
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  It's impossible to turn away if you've got those five things.
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  Those are good questions, Ron. Good job.
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  I wish I could take credit for all of them. Oh, did you have some co-sponsors
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  there with questions? Yeah. Okay.
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  Well, thank you, Ron. And thank you for listening. God bless you until we see each other again.