Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Working in Spain as a Financial Planner – Chris Burke

Transcript

Working in Spain as a Financial Planner – Chris Burke · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: This week's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Chris Burke.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Chris is a partner at the Spectrum IFA Group and it's based in Barcelona, in Spain.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Chris talked to us today about his career in financial advice, especially in the offshore market.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: He had absolutely zero experience of working as a financial advisor until he made that quite brave decision to move to Spain and start up there.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say it's been a bit of a baptism of fire.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And today he shares the realities of starting out as a financial advisor without any experience in Spain.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Christopher, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good, thanks, Sam.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very well, thank you.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very well.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Is it sunnier and hotter in Spain than it is in wet, dreary Bristol right now?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about that actually.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit overcast here today, but uh yeah, it's been very cold this winter.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: So they said one of the coldest on records in Barcelona.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So uh you're not missing out too much at the moment for sure.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get snow in Barcelona?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh two hours, about two hours away.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is the snow season.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So most weekends people go up to Andorra or some other skis soap.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's good fun.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's the great thing about Barcelona.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's got this, it's got the beaches, the snow, the international airport.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great place to live.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is the purpose really of the podcast because you are uh a British guy and you move to Spain and you're working as a financial advisor.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine there's many people working within financial services or as financial advisors who are thinking, do you know what?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I quite fancy going over there and working in Barcelona, going to the slopes two hours away, the beach perhaps on an evening, and having an amazingly lovely social life over in Spain.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So today I've sort of brought you on the podcast just to find out a little bit about what you do at the moment, how you got into working over in uh Barcelona, and what's the reality versus possibly the expectation of working offshore.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've had people come on and talk to me about Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Hong Kong, never Spain.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, great.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah, I'm here to spill the beans, no problem.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, fantastic.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, Chris, um, first off, then just tell us a little bit about your history and how you got into financial planning then.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, from probably the biggest role I had before I left the UK, I worked for a publishing company for about 10 years, uh, where I was a sales manager, business analyst, these kind of roles.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I enjoyed it very much.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the the I always say to people, actually, I was talking to someone recently, if you want if you want a career or do a job, pick the company and the organization you want to work for.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because and then if you put the effort in, then they will look after you and develop you.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked for a very good publishing company, and then towards the end of that time, the department I would was in was suffering.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the internet had come along, it was uh a business directory, and things were changing massively, and I wasn't enjoying the job anymore, and I felt like I wanted a change.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and my partner and I had always spoken about living abroad, and so there became an opportunity for me to leave the company um and go on gardening leave.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, right, I'm gonna re-evaluate, like a lot of people do, I suppose, when they're kind of getting towards midlife.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do I, you know, what do I want to do now?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do I want to do the same thing?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Would I like to do something different?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: If I want to go and live abroad, what can I do over there?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Can I do the same thing?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's kind of where I started really.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I went on the internet and did some research and I looked at what might what might I enjoy, what might suit my skill set.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very, I'm very amiable, very sociable, you know.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I like to I like to deal with people, um, and uh, and also like a challenge.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um I came across being a financial advisor.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um in Spain or in Europe, uh, I think in the UK you need there are there are you've got the RO series of exams, you've got about six different exams, six or seven.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: In Europe, there aren't as many, so you can actually start becoming a financial advisor a lot quicker.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I believe I I had to take two exams during the first year, and you can actually practice as a financial advisor in Spain whilst you're doing those, as long as you're being overseen by a manager.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that was um we settled on on Spain, and uh a lot of that decision, to be honest, was for the climate.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: For the climate, great.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you had you said you interestingly, you sort of hit a midlife point and you thought you were re-evaluating where you were.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people do that, don't they?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: They sit back and they think to themselves, do I want to spend the rest of the next 20, 30 years of my working life in England?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or do I want to go and follow that dream that I might have had in my head of maybe working in sunnier climate?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it the ability to do that now is far greater.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And especially within financial planning, it's interesting because obviously I've run a financial planning recruitment company for 13 years, and it it's interesting to see just how worldwide financial planning is, but also how accessible it is to people from the UK.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you can come from the UK and you can go and work in Kazakhstan as a financial advisor if you wanted to.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are companies out there that will happily bring people over from the UK and actually go out there and work as financial advisors.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the opportunities are far greater than they've ever been worldwide.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you can pick and choose where you go.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you have that experience, fantastic.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: But in your case, you didn't have the experience, did you?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you were working, you had a great experience of building relationships, and it sounds like the publishing company was probably quite salesy, was it?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine, probably a little bit more relationship buildy, salesy, perhaps, or not?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you had that sort of background and that sort of experience from that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you thought, well, let's make that transferable.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you've gone from the UK without experience over to Spain and thought, right, I'm gonna pick a I'm gonna pick a job.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna live somewhere completely different.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also gonna pick a brand new career.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you and you chose and you settled on financial planning.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So when you went over there then, let's just talk about the realities of that, because that's brave.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you're going over there, you're starting as a financial planner.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: What was the first sort of year like when you started working as a financial planner?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what were you doing?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Who were you working with?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think any new job is uh, you know, the first six months to 12 months of a new job is when you find out, is this going to be for me?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it was very, very different.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was very successful I did previously, but it was very tough, no doubt about it.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very tough.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and in fact, I remember the day before we we actually moved to Madrid to start with.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then after nine months, we visited Barcelona for the weekend and decided this is the place we can live forever because we loved it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: But the day before we moved to Madrid, my partner had a complete breakdown, and I thought, what are we doing?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're we've got a young child, we're moving abroad.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is a massive thing.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know anyone, we can't speak the language.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was very, very scary.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to say, a year later, when we moved to Madrid to Barcelona, it was easy because we'd done it all once.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, the first year was you're learning in everything when you learn to a new country, you know, the culture, um, the language, you're trying to get to grips with a job.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most financial advisor jobs are not paid a salary on a basis.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so of course, you're only earning what you're going to take on as clients.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when you start in day one, of course, someone's going to ask you how long you've been doing this job.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it was very, very tough, I have to say.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would say that you know, only as the years go by, like in everything, when you build up your reputation, um, your knowledge of how to do the job, but it took many, many years to do that.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And there's certainly uh many, many times over those first few years, we kept having the conversation.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are we gonna make this?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are we gonna stay here?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are we gonna do this?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna work?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we had very lots of very, very deep, uncomfortable conversations.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I did with myself as well.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I never I never give up, but sometimes you sometimes you think, yeah.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I remember on my training course, we all, you know, there was about 15 of us in London we got trained, and then we got shipped out to our various countries and we all kept in touch.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it literally was a question as who's going to last the longest because they all dropped by the wayside one by one, because it's not an easy job.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you imagine trying to do all that, you know, something you've never done before, it's not easy at all.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's very, very typical, and it's something that I've experienced out throughout the years where I've been talking to people that have worked offshore or I've sort of helped people um find financial planning roles in different countries, is that yeah, you you you are literally trained in the UK, and it's like a kind of whistle stop tour of what it is you're gonna be doing, especially when you don't have the experience and some of these firms like your David groups, et cetera, take people on without any experience whatsoever.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when it was, you know, if you worked in as a washing machine salesman, you could be a financial advisor, you know, but they ship them out somewhere and with the promise that they're gonna make absolute an absolute fortune.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: The reality is probably 10%, 5% actually did.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And some of those guys made an absolute killing, you know, made an absolute fortune, especially in some of these tax havens and you know, areas where ABW we'd have to have to pay any tax.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they made some, you know, in an absolute killing, and it was unregulated.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there wasn't anybody breathing down their neck.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially, it was selling financial products at a very high commission.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of the image that it's always had offshore.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's being a very commission-led, you know, um, advice selling selling as opposed to advice.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, was it like that when you first got into it?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the reality of it?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what it very much nailed it, Sam?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what it was like.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: It really was.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And for me coming from um the UK, where everything is regulated black and white, it was very, you know, I was like, Jesus, what is this?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there were lots of people that that thrived in that environment, as in they, you know, they didn't mind about it.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, depends what kind of person you are.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I wanted to be a financial advisor, wanted to succeed, but I had to do it the right way.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had to, I have to sleep at night, look in the mirror, and know, you know, you're doing the right thing for your clients.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so yeah, it really was.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the stories I could tell you, you know, offices getting raided, and um, oh, it was it was, you know, it was awful um for some for some companies out there.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: It really is exactly what you've said.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank God that has changed dramatically over the years now.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that has been helped with, you know, when I first started, you probably had um investments and and savings things with companies that most people had never heard of.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there were, let's say, hidden commissions involved in these products that not even the financial advisors could understand.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now you've got other companies involved, big companies that are really, really good, companies like Prudential that are bona fide, the products are good, um, and other companies as well.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's dramatically changed over the years.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, absolutely.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: The stories I could tell you over a beer about, you know, what I saw and what used to happen, it was it was absolutely crazy.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Was there some serious money being earned as well?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Only by uh it's it's pyramid, it was, you know, back it was pyramid setting, really.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Only the managers of the offices earned the money.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it really was the fact that they would employ new recruits, they would get them to come in.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And in some offices, if they had a sniff of a good client, they would even sack the new recruit and take so that they could get the business themselves.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it honestly, it was it was awful.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I never was in that environment.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I always worked in an office.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, um, you pick your your company and your manager.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wasn't in that kind of environment.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was close to it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, many years ago it was like that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: But um thank God it's not like that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, not where I am anyway.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't hear those stories anymore.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can I've had people on the podcast.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Chris Chris Ball from Hoxton Capital is quite a large firm uh worldwide now.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he when he very first started out um in the offshore market, I mean, he was there, there was loads of them all sleeping in the same in the same place, like with 10 financial advisors all lying sleeping down on the office the office floor, basically.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's very successful now, like he's doing really yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that comes down to your you're in a you're in a drive, but also the fact that you need to do it the right way, you're only going to last long term if you do it the right way.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is you only provide solutions that are right for the clients, yeah.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you get a fair remuneration.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if you do it that way, you'll survive long term.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Any other way, it's it at some point it will fall apart.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I suppose you're battling between making a living and being ethical, aren't you?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And being true to yourself and being, you know, an honest person.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I um you know, when we when I came out, I remember thinking, right, we will need six months' money to survive until I get earning, you know, and I'll be very open with you.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, after a year, we took money off the mortgage to stay, you know, because that if you're doing it right, that wasn't going to work, you know.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um it really, really is you need to be have an open your open mind about how long it's like any new business.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I remember talking to a friend of mine after about a year, year and a half, and he said, How's it going?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, it's really tough, you know.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, You know, any new business takes 18 months to break even.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so really your expectations of of um of you know making money within the first year are probably not quite there.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, that kind of made me re-evaluate and not feel so bad about how I was getting on.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, how long have you been working in Spain now for then as a financial advisor?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: 2009.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I came out here in September.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you've fair play.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you've broke the back of it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: You broke the back of it, and you're now making, you know, that is your career and you're making an excess out of it.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So during that period, then, when did you become qualified to give advice then over in Spain?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because you mentioned there that you didn't have to be qualified to actually give advice as long as somebody was overseeing the advice that's being given.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is that still the same case now?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty much.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So your reference to uh the one I heard was someone could be working in allied carpets one minute and then they could be giving financial advice in Abu Dhabi the next.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, uh not quite like that.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you can the way it works out here, it's called a passporting thing.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you'll have someone in the company that signs off all the advice, and then anyone below them can go and speak to people, they can suggest things, but it all has to be signed off from a compliance perspective until you've passed your exams.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: But even then, it needs to be signed off.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you have the FCA in the UK, what's the what is it in Spain?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: In in Spain, it's the DGS.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: That was the they changed the name a few times.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and we've got offices all over Western Europe, and in every country, we open up a local office so we adhere to the local laws.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's very important because that's another problem.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Years ago, if you you know you were working with a financial advisor in Dubai and then you didn't like what had happened.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: If in fact they just had an office in Dubai, but they were based in Luxembourg or the Maldives or whatever, you actually had to go to the Maldives to complain about them, which is not really it's not really going to work.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, we we always adhere to the local rules of where we're practicing financial advice.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because who are you working for currently at the moment?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: The Spectrum IFA group.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Spectrum IFA group.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what's your position within the Spectrum IFA group?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you're are you still self-employed working there?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we're it's a spectrum are they're an umbrella company.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So all the advisors are in essence self-employed.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and every time we take a client on, um, we invoice Spectrum.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And as long as the you know they've signed off the advice and the compliance and everything, and then they remunerate us for that business placement.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: So a bit like being in the UK, being like a registered individual underneath a firm, you know, you're self-employed as a registered individual.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And are the benefits still similar in the sense that you take on their branding and the compliance and perhaps some administration support, marketing, the occasional lead here and there?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is that the sort of thing they do for you?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, pretty much, pretty much.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: What you the main I joined Spectrum back in 2013 and I've been working for another financial advisory company before that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I was getting frustrated at the old company because they were getting very greedy.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: They wanted clients to go in their own funds so they earned more commissions, and I didn't want to do that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I bumped into actually on the golf course, I bumped into someone that worked for this company and they said, come and had a chat.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what I loved about them was that their mindset was the same as mine.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: The morality, it's it's about they didn't have any, they don't have any targets.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's just about taking on the right client for the right piece of business that works for both sides.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what I really liked about them.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I I work for them, they're an umbrella company, they give everything that you've said all and more training, everything like that.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in essence, I'm doing my own job and they're there if I need them.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do you still think you know it's the type of job, let's say, for example, somebody like yourself hasn't got any experience of working as a financial planner.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if they sat down with you and said, Do you know what?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking about going to Spain.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I really love the idea of living in Barcelona and becoming a financial advisor.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: What would your advice be to them at that very point of them thinking about making that decision?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're on the verge of doing it.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, funnily enough, uh I've just started working with someone that came to me a few months ago saying that, and uh, he's working for me as a paraplanner.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I don't know, I don't actually know how it works in the UK, but you know, when I started as a financial advisor here, I was also my own paraplanner because I started with nothing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I firmly believe that in any business, if you've done all the jobs on the way up, you know exactly how it works.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can give advice to someone and that kind of thing.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I said to him, you know, it's very difficult to come out here directly as a financial advisor because you don't know how the job works, you know, you've never done it before, that kind of thing.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: You absolutely should do an apprenticeship.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And a good apprenticeship is as a power planner.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, a great way to do it would to work within a company, a good, reputable company, so you can see how the process works, um, maybe as a power planner role or something else.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then you'll make a, you know, then you'll have a good idea.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is the job for me, and you'll pick out the bits that you think work and the things that might work for you.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: So and I think that relates to a lot of jobs in the UK as well.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think the big mistake people think is, like you said earlier, oh great, I'll go and work in Dubai or or Spain and I'll earn X and it'll be great.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's really unrealistic, particularly if you've never done the job before.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that was always a downfall of anything that was offshore.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that where you experienced it yourself 10, 10 or so years ago, where they put 15 guys in a room and send them off and hope that two of them stick and make a load of money out of it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there wasn't any planning involved, there wasn't any training or career development.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't really considered.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was considered you either you're either tough and you make it or you don't, and you go back to the UK with your tail between your legs and perhaps a Rolex watch if you've done a little bit of business one month, you know.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: But um I think where firms are investing heavily in that uh uh offshore market now, and a lot of companies that we're seeing in the offshore market have also got links to the UK also and having licenses in lots, as you mentioned, licenses in lots of other countries as well.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the types of clients that then they're working with, they can advise them in every country because they've got the license agreements with each of those areas of understanding around tax and all of that kind of stuff.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's quite complicated.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I'm talking to these offshore advisors, it's not you're not just dealing with UK tax, are you?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're dealing with the tax laws of that country, especially around things like pensions, et cetera.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just talk about, you know, let's talk about that a little bit because uh, you know, you've got people in the UK, it's investments, it's pensions, it's it's protection business, it's UK based.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's it like from a client perspective then over in Spain?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: What type, what does a typical client look like?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you find them?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: How tough is it to find these guys?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, that's that's actually the hardest part.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why the job is so hard because um, you know, no one ever wakes up in the morning really thinking, oh, I need a financial advisor.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if they do, you know, I think putting your trust in someone to manage your monies, I can't really think of a bigger, a bigger decision, one of the biggest decisions to make, apart from maybe taking on a mortgage for a lot of money or something.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very big thing to do.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, there's a variety of way of meeting clients.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, some of it I'll say to you now, some of it I won't, because you know, obviously the everyone's got their own way of doing it, but obviously networking is key.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, building up relationships with other people.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, you've got the internet as well, which which works for um, you know, a lot of companies.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: But at Spectrum, we uh we're very organic.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: We don't spend a lot of monies on promoting or trying to get clients.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of offshore companies or financial advisors in Europe do spend a lot of money on trying to get clients.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: We don't do it that way.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: We do it from a natural way of meeting people and going out and people getting to know us, and then they say, Hey, what do you do?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we tell them, and then if they want to have a chat with us, they do.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um, typical client, you know, when you move abroad, and you know, I worked in the UK, I had a company car, company pension, had life insurance, all these kind of things.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in Spain, you get nothing, absolutely nothing.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you move out here and you work for a company and you get the and you think, oh great, I've got a good contract.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh right, um, you know, do you have a company pension scheme?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, only only less than 35% of people in Spain contribute to private pension.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you're like, oh, okay, right.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh share options?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, we don't do those either.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So so if you're a Brit, you'll think, or English, you're thinking, oh, well, hold on a minute, you know, and after a couple of years of getting established with your family and finding a home to live in, you'd start thinking about these things and you think, right, okay, I need to wonder if there's anyone I could find a pension from.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really need to put some money aside for a pension because you know, I know that people do it in the UK.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and what about life insurance and a will?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and so sometimes they have those kind of thoughts and they're used to these kind of things, but in Spain, it's very difficult to find it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: The banks don't provide it.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're very antiquated here on what they do offer.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to a bank and you want your monies to work for you, they'll probably suggest their own bank investment funds, which are high commission and based on what the bank thinks is good.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're not global investment.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, banks are good at banking, not necessarily good at investing.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, that's the kind of typical person, and and it's making sure, and since Brexit as well, you know, since Brexit, if you're if you've got assets in the UK, UK advisors really legally are not supposed to advise you if you're living abroad now in Europe.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think some are, but it won't be long, probably, before the FCA will start finding them.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: So they need help with those assets, with those investments or pensions.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's where we can come in.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And back to your original question about tax, it's absolutely the most important thing, and you hit the nail on the head because you need advice on where you're living.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's no point inherent to UK tax if you're living in Spain or in Catalunya, because you need to take note of the wealth tax, um, the savings tax.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if you've had assets outside of Spain that um aren't Spanish compliant, you pay additional tax or you pay tax every year on that money, whether you touch it or not.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing I always say to clients is okay, we need to look at your tax situation, get you a good accountant.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Once we've done that, then let's have a look at what assets you've got, and we'll start from there and work our way along.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And is it mainly, you know, is it mainly English, British that you deal with that have decided to move to Spain and set up, maybe perhaps they've gone there to work.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because Barcelona now is actually growing in respect of like it's becoming a very, well, it's quite a new place for tech, isn't it?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Barcelona.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of tech companies setting up.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people going to Barcelona to live there and work in tech companies.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: So is that right?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Am I right in?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think I did.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right, but it's been going a long time.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a big tech hub, Barcelona Activa, for new startups.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're really, really good in supporting that kind of thing.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they're just about to launch a digital nomad visa, right?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Which means that if you're living in Spain or Barcelona and 80% of your business is outside of Spain, you'll get a preferential tax rate.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, they they are good at enticing new businesses and startups to a degree for sure.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and and sort of is that where you sort of find your business?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is it mainly dealing with because you've you spoke to you spoke earlier, you said you don't speak Spanish, you've never lived in Spain before.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: You look Spanish.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: You don't speak Spanish.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Even when I moved here, I've morphed.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so do you find that you gravitate more towards those expat communities?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you do do you do you move towards that more?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you you mentioned there about that 35% of Spanish would probably have a pension?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Does that mean there's a huge market there of Spanish people that you can generate business through?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how does it work?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's the reality?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm going there and I can't speak Spanish, is there enough business?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's hard to find it, but is there enough business for me to go after?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, potentially.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on what you're looking for.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to go to the north of Spain for my own personal reasons, which is I didn't I didn't want to be the Brits Abroad guy.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just my that was just my thing.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've got actually lots of colleagues that work down there and they love it, and that's fine.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted something a bit different.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and Barcelona is a very business-like city, so not so many retirees here.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so from that perspective, you don't need to speak a massive amount of Spanish because, yes, most of my clients are English speaking.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the reasons for that are that there's a lot of cultural differences.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, a lot of the Spanish, and particularly Catalans, they don't like necessarily banks to keep their monies in.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Culturally, they buy properties.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: In in Spain, there has been occasions where if the government thinks you're doing something wrong, they can literally go into your bank account and take your money out.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they don't there's a bit of a trust element between the people and the government or the banks.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: So they much prefer property, bricks and mortar, that kind of thing.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they're very culturally different.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and also from a trust perspective as well.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: They, you know, they generally work with their father's bank or the bank manager they used to work with.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So they're I do have clients that are local, but I would say that they're more um outside of Spain oriented, or they may have lived abroad and they understand that actually global investment companies or banks are actually okay.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's different from what they were doing.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but 99% of people I work with are English speaking, not just Brits, probably a good percentage of them, but any nationalities, because it's the same what I said earlier about people moving here and they're used to company cars, pensions, and shares.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same for French people, same for Dutch people, same for Belgian people.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same for them.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: They come here and they're like, well, where's all those things I had there?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Where's all those benefits?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's English, it's predominantly English speaking, and legally, when we take clients on, they actually have to sign a disclaimer to say that everything we've done is in English because that's the main companies that we work with, English-speaking companies.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right, okay, cool.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: So predominantly, because you always think about Spain as being a place where, like you said, the Brits abroad type thing, really, that someone ends up going there to retire, you know, off the Benadorn to retire, you know, sit on the beach and get fat and brown.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the that's the dream.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's my dream anyway.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but you're not, you know, it I suppose that's kind of like you might be looking at those.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you work with those types of clients?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see them often?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the kind of, I suppose it's retirees and wealth management perspective as opposed to people that are actually working there and and living their day-to-day lives there.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a real cross-section.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So of course we've got people that don't work anymore and are retired, and we've got people that are working.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there is no um typical client really that I could give you.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about people that have assets and monies and want to be given good advice on structuring those to make sure that they're mitigating their tax situation legally and that their monies are working for them in a safe manner.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we do.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: So whether that is someone like you described, or whether it's someone not like that, you know, it makes no difference.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we've we've got advisors all over all over Western Europe, and we've got some in those areas which you've mentioned.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there, you know, it's whoever needs advice, and we feel like we can work with them because it's a two-way relationship.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: The client has got to feel good about us.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: We've also got to feel good about the client as well.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just talk about some of the benefits then of actually working in Spain.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've you've been in the UK, you decided to move to Spain.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Have you made the right choice?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what are the benefits really to actually working in Spain as opposed to the UK?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Lifestyle is is fantastic.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've got the climate, the weather, uh, the outdoor life, you know, so it's a bit cold at the moment, but from probably April onwards, everything's outside.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you finish work, it's really difficult not to walk past a terrace and stop and have a glass of wine or a beer because the sun is out.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you live near the sea, the sea is blue.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um there's so many outdoor activities to do, and because the weather's nice, you want to do them.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I go back to the UK quite regularly, and I remember sometimes, you know, I used to work hard in the UK Monday to Friday, and I look forward to the weekend.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then it might be blue, sky, and sunny, but you go out and it's freezing.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I take the kids to the park, and after 45 minutes, you think I'm just gonna give up because it's just not enjoyable.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you don't really get that over here.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you know, most of the time it is so yeah, culturally, it's fantastic.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much to do from an outdoor lifestyle perspective, and the cost of living is as cheap or as expensive as you like it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I our office is in one of the nicest streets in Barcelona, and every morning at half past 10 I go out for a big boccadillo, which is like you know, a ham roll or something, and a coffee, and it costs me less than three euros.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So£2.40.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're in London and you went out on that fancy street, we know what that would cost.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, the lifestyle is absolutely great and it can fit pretty much anyone's budget, you know.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, the climate is it's the it's the number one thing I'd say that and that people live here for, really.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: The sun on your face and your body is lovely.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I think that people get promised a lot by the recruiters you recruit on the offshore market is that you can earn considerable amounts of money and in some locations that we touched on tax-free.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: You you can't earn tax-free in Spain though, can you?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: But what about the earning potential?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, uh does the earning potential as a financial advisor sort of outweigh the earning potential in other jobs within Spain?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is it a well-paid job?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Can you can you earn considerable money there?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I spoke to a couple of guys uh went out from the went out from the UK, went over to Dubai, and both of them are on sort of half a million.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: One of the guys that I do know is on about, I put him out there, he's on about 1.6 million a year.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what can you earn considerable money in Spain?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that sort of you don't go there for that, you go there for the lifestyle and to have a good life?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I uh back to the very early days when I was in the room of 15 people, you know, one of the things that some of them were looking at was which countries earn which money?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and they were kind of deciding, well, if I go there, I'll earn more money, potentially, but actually living there will be a nicer lifestyle, you know, and it, you know, so um that's a very difficult question to to answer.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: I um obviously it's not tax-free here.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, um, and the other thing I would say is that my clients are not just limited to Spain.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I do have clients in other countries, I mentioned earlier, Portugal.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: So um one one of the things about being a financial advisor is that you're not really capped on what you can earn to a degree.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, it's not it's not like superstar wages, you know, there's no financial advisors I know that that are like that.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and if they do earn good money, then you know, I know in Spain and France, for example, you know, you'll pay up to 50% tax once you get to a certain point, very similar to the UK.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um the good thing is that you're not capped, and the effort that you put in, you you can be rewarded for.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you ask, if you're pushing me on it, I would probably say you're going to earn more money in those other jurisdictions than Spain for sure.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: With Spain then, and obviously you've moved there, you mentioned that you you ended up buying a house.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: How difficult was it for you to buy in Spain?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is it as difficult as it is in the UK?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you, you know, if someone was over going over there and they perhaps didn't have enough for a deposit for a house in the UK, they got their heads down and started working hard and became a financial advisor in Spain, but then they'd saved a bit of money on the side.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is it hard to buy a house or a flat or anything like that in Spain if you're British?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or is the house market really overpriced?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've never really thought about Spain in that respect.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: I look sometimes on like right move and stuff, and you look at what you could get in Spain, in northern Spain and stuff, and think, hell yeah, I could buy a lovely place over there.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the case?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's exactly the same as the UK.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, it's changed a little bit since COVID because lots of people have left the cities for more space and to have more nature.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't buy here actually.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was speaking to someone earlier, I was saying that when I did move here, I thought, yeah, give it a year or two, we'll buy somewhere because that's the British thing, the natural cultural thing.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: But lots of people actually rent here and they're really happy.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you sign for a rent agreement here, it's normally a five to seven year agreement.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And renting is a lot cheaper than buying.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I many years ago I lived in an apartment that was, I remember it was probably worth about 700,000.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was paying 1,300 euros a month rent.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: So proportionately, you know, to buy that apartment, the mortgage would have been crazy on something like that back in the day.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So is it easy to buy?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you need uh around 18 months um stable income living in Spain, um, and then you'll be able to put down approximately a 20% deposit.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Each region has its own taxes that you need to pay.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And in Catalonia, you'll need about 12% in fees on top of that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um it for every 100,000 you want to purchase a property for, you'll need about 32,000.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to buy what you absolutely have to be careful of, and this happens still now, is that you don't get ripped off because it's Spain is not like the UK, and one of the things I thought we'd naturally progress onto this, you know, it's very black and white in the UK.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Spain, for for want of one thing or another, it's a it's a not it's a very great area, dictatorship, you know, and that's one of the big issues that people have here, you know, the administration, the fact that you are, if they decide that you're guilty, you're guilty, and then you have to prove yourself innocent, and it can take you years.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas in the UK, they think you're wrong, they have to prove that you're wrong, yeah, and you're innocent until then.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you absolutely have to be very careful buying that you go to the reputable company and that you have a very good lawyer.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: But apart from that, yeah, it's it's very easy to buy.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: I always remember my mum said, like, was looking at Spain, and then they were put off by the fact that she always says this one thing, which is um, look, Sam, if I bought a place there and they wanted to build a road on my land, they'd build a road on my land, they would just knock it down and they wouldn't they'd want to knock it down and build a build a road on the land.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or if they want to build a supermarket, it's because it's because it's going to suit the the local economy, then they'll do that.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: They won't, you don't really have any rights.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was the that was the thing that she sort of said, and it really put her off of going to Spain.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true, or is that just my mum being in my mum?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know what, to a degree, yes, I would say, because I couldn't just do that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: But for example, you can buy a property and it and it won't have the right permissions, but everyone will say, Yeah, but don't worry, you can get those permissions, don't worry.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, normally you can, but in essence, you're still buying a property that you're not really allowed to live in, but you know that you will be able to eventually.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I hear lots of stories where people have bought property and then they have massive issues with it.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a large element of that.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I say to everybody, when you first come out to Spain, rent.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Rent, make your local contacts, you know, because if you go out and you buy somewhere, you know, you could be buying a property that everyone's thinking they'll never sell that for that money.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: You won't know that because you're coming in as the newbie.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, meet the local people, know the local market, find out about other properties.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that can still happen, if I'm honest.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be very, very careful.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like the UK.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for that.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if I was to um let's go back to when, you know, someone coming over to Spain to work as a financial planner.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say that I was level four qualified in the UK.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've done my RO exams through the CII, or um, I've done it through the CISI or whatever.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm level four qualified in the UK, right?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got experience and I went across over to Spain.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Could I straight away start giving advice, or do I have to pass some sort of internal Spanish qualifications first?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: How does that work?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Does it just travel across?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you you would you would your anything that you suggested would need to be signed off by the company.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in essence, yes, you could start sitting down with clients and and giving them advice, but nothing you could suggest or do would it would all have to be signed off.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So a bit like in the UK, you've got competent advisor status.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So before that you've you know you're able to actually sit down with clients on your own and give the advice, it has to be signed off.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be signed off as competent.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: So somebody else is signing off your work.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the same in Spain, but sort of how long and and and and what's the rules around that?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, from a from a Spain perspective, I I don't actually know what the rules are.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: It really depends on the company that you're working for, I would suggest.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where the regulation in Spain is nothing like the UK.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so you really are dependent on who you're working for, um, because you've got the DGS, which is uh basically an insurance regulation company, um, but they're not like the FCA, nothing like it, absolutely nothing like it.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um it really does depend on the company you're working for and what they deem as the right thing to do.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm a financial advisor, I'm thinking of going over to Spain, what sort of due diligence do you think I should do on any company that's making me an offer of employment or self-employment?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, obviously you're going to do the internet thing, but um the two things I would do, or I did do, was speak to advisors who've worked who have worked for that company, maybe who are working for it, but they might have rose tinted glasses.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's better someone who's left because they'll give you an honest opinion.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the number one thing I would suggest is talk to the companies that those financial advisors work with.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I mentioned prudential.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Ask them which are the which are the good firms, which are the good firms to work for.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: They'll tell you for sure.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and what sort of makes a good firm over in Spain then?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any sort of like in the UK, you know, you've got the backing that they're authorized by the FCA, but it might be a chartered firm in the UK, you know, they might have chartered status.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: The things like I know that you're an IFA, Spectrum IFA group, you know, so IFA, ooh, you know, IFA independent, fantastic.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what sort of badges, what sort of indication, say from a consumer perspective and an employee perspective, would indicate that that is a good firm from the outside looking in, or is it just not like that?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like that, I'm afraid.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: The only way is to touch and feel them and talk to them and see, you know, the most important thing is that you feel like with the financial advisor, they absolutely have your interests at heart.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that will quite quickly come across from what they're telling you to do and the advice they're giving you, and who they're suggesting that you work with.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, financial advisors should be making sure that you know you're with big reputable companies and not in any of their own products, not in any of their own things at all.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and that the that it's a fair cost and a fair price.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's apart from that, it's very difficult.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Very difficult to tell.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing, isn't it?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes people quite nervous about going off and leaving the UK and starting financial planning in another country, because they hear those horror stories, don't they, of, you know, one minute they're working in a nice firm in London, they're promised the earth over offshore and they're sitting there thinking, what have I done?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and um, and like you say, some people persevere with it, push through and and and make a good career out of it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they they love the culture and they love what the the work life balance that they get from being in those countries, whereas others just think, What have I done?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they just turn around and come back and they go better the devil you know, and they think, well, the UK's not as bad as I thought.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: I prefer it that way.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it takes a it still takes quite a tough cookie to do it, you know.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Of those first couple of years, do you think you know you have to have a bit of resilience and drive in you and determination because it's not going to be handed to you on a plate?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is, I can't stress how hard it was at times.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason it was so hard is because I wanted, I did it the right way.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: I always gave the client the right advice, whether that meant they weren't going to work with me.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: And being very open with you, you know, when you're not on a salary, which I wasn't at the beginning, and you and you haven't taken on any clients for a couple of months, you know, that's not an easy thing for some people to do because they might think, oh, I tell the clients to do this, I'll get paid, and then, you know, and it'll be okay.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it is tough.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, tell me, you know, if you were going to open up your own business and you wanted to make it work, you know, that's not going to be any different.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's the the different, the different for me is the realization where a lot of these companies will tell you, yeah, come out here, you'll earn this, you learn that.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Most of it's poppycock if you're being realistic about it.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why you need to do your due diligence and talk to advisors who worked for those companies and perhaps left, and they'll give you a real honest opinion.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also very achievable.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I say it's not a bad idea to go down a power planning route or something where perhaps you can you're getting paid a salary, you know, you're working for an advisor like me, um, where you're gonna have a salary, you're gonna see the role in itself, and you're kind of, you know, you're being trained up how to do it, and then you'll know what to do rather than just completely going cold and you're spending the savings that you've put aside to try and make it.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: I 100% agree.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's good for the companies as well, because they're gonna get somebody that's more ingrained within their business, understands the culture of their business, the values of their business, and they're gonna be far greater uh financial planners in the long run instead of being desperate, if you like, to do business and doing it the wrong way, making the wrong decisions and putting clients off and creating a bad name.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um does your firm invest in that sort of you mentioned there about power planner route, but do they invest in that power planner to trainee uh financial advisor level?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is that part of like the career progression development plan at Spectrum?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and a lot of our power planners are advisors now.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the thing about it.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we used we used to have a rule, we used to say that no one ever left Spectrum and they died.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and because it's such a nice company to work for.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, we did have one guy die a couple of years ago.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's not strictly true, because I think we had someone leave last year or the year before.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, no, a lot of the advisors or a few of the advisors I know have come through the paraplane route.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: And these are not 25-year-olds, these are, you know, 35 or 40-year-olds.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them, one of them I think is 25.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a great way to do it because it has for all the reasons you've just said.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, if you're going to be a financial advisor and you've never done it before, that's the best way to do it.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the much more chance of making it as well.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the financial advisor will say, look, why don't you start looking after this client after a while?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you start, you're going to get such great support and learn on it rather than go in and try and do everything yourself.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what about the way an advisor is actually paid their income in Spain?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because like the way that an advisor would charge here for their services to a client would be usually fee-based now?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so completely fee-based, really.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you might charge up front for some of the advice, um, hourly rate, um, and then a percentage of assets under management for any investments.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the same over in Spain?
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can you generate an income from assets under management?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sorry, yes, assets under management, yes, but we don't charge fees.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're not allowed to charge fees.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we're like because we work under insurance banner.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we're like the old UK model where we're remunerated on commissions and on trail.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: So from the companies that the clients are invested in.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes on a one-off, you could call it a fee, but it's a one-off fee, and then the trail.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we're remunerated in those ways, and the market is is is changing to more of that latter model.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's very much a swing, swinging roundabout thing because I have lots of meetings with people that want to pick my brain, and uh they won't be clients or they'll never be clients.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: So they're getting really good free advice.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it kind of works on on both ways, but I I like I I quite like this model because people genuinely get to touch and feel me and think, yeah, I I'm sure some of them think, well, not sure Chris is the kind of guy I would want to.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there are people that have thought that, but the class comes like, yeah, you know, I'll get on with Chris and I think we could work together and I like what he's saying.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they get to do that where they don't have to pay me a bill to find that out.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but the key is is that it's a fair remuneration.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: And some companies out there, and certainly years ago, going back to what you were talking about earlier, it was too skewed in high commissions.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's a lot more fairer.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly from our perspective, we're very lean.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't take commissions on funds or things like that.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're very, very fair to clients, and that's why we can work organically because we get a lot of repeat business and a lot of referrals from other people because it it generally works well for them.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: So transparency is is there, you know, it's not something you're hiding behind.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um excellent.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's finally sort of sort of finalize this this podcast episode with is that uh if you ever wanted to leave Spain, I'll get you a job.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, if you if you ever if you ever wanted to leave Spain and you are self-employed at the moment, uh, or you wanted to leave financial planning and set yourself a pig farm up in uh you know northern Spain, whatever it is you wanted to do, uh as a self-employed financial planner, uh uh, do you have uh uh the exit strategies that are in place, say in the UK, where you can sell on an existing client bank that generates an income?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the same in Spain?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do that?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: So can you prepare for your retirement in that way at all?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or once it's over, it's over, you sign it over to the company you work for?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a very that's a very uh tricky question.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, in essence, yes, you could sell your book of business.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: You are the person so that's dealing with those clients.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is that book of business actually worth anything?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've seen some people retire and sell their book of business.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen other people retire and get nothing for their book of business.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is swings and roundabouts.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I look at it that when I I mean, I'll always like to keep my hand in a little bit, you know, um, but I think you have to expect that you're probably not going to get too much if you keep your expectations low.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's always there's always a question, Mark, about are they the company's business uh clients or are they my clients?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you always have that trade-off.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when I when I when I left the other company, I had a non-compete rule, which I absolutely adhered to for a year, and um, and then I know that someone left the same company after that, and they took a load of their clients with them, um, which you're not supposed to do.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is a gray area.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I can genuinely say many of my clients are really good friends, and I have a lovely relationship with them, and I would be sad not to speak to them anymore.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very personal thing.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, to summarize, you can sell it, will you get anything for it?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's a different question.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the UK, like you know, you get one percent of your recurring, you know, one percent of your assets under management as recurring income.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if someone might offer you four times that, so if you got 1%, 10 mil, 100k, you could walk away with 400 grand.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: As a as a you know, and that in you all you do is transfer those clients across to somebody else during a two-year exit period.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think over in the offshore market, it's never been that way, really.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: You just kind of you could make a load of money and and leave if you wanted to, you know, but the the models are changing, and that assets under management model, recurring income model allows for an advisor to move around the world and still claim that recurring income due to the licenses and agreements within different countries.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just interesting to understand because you mentioned there about being self-employed, and again, if I'm self-employed, there's like anybody who's self-employed in the UK, and I had a and I had a restricted covenant in place, but I was self-employed, uh, it wouldn't be implied, I wouldn't work for that company for me personally, because it's like, well, I am self-employed, it's my business.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why would it why would I have a restriction in place?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really, and again, probably something that people want to make sure they're looking at before they go anywhere offshore with any company anyway, especially down the self-employed group, check out those restricted covenants and non-solicitation calls.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's because if you are doing a huge amount of the work yourself, one day you might get uh shot in the foot if you fall out with somebody.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I mean, some people say the non-competes are not really worth what they're in on paper.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if your company that you leave, you know, are sending expensive lawyers' letters, they can tie you up in so you know it really does depend either way.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, I you're right, it's moving towards that more model.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in essence, I would not suggest that anyone's going to be selling off a book of business for hundreds of thousands.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's gonna work like that.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't really work that way.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something you see yourself doing, getting older with your clients as well.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what a lovely way to do that over in Spain as well, because everyone's sort of in.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine retirement in Spain or getting older in Spain is um is quite a beautiful thing, actually.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a great place to live.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: The the only the only thing you have to be aware of is and you can find sorts of places.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I had a friend of mine a couple of years ago, I met him, and he said, Are you gonna stay how long have you been in Barcelona?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, seven years or eight years, whenever it was.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna stay around.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Well, because I'm not being funny, because we're getting on really well, we're having a beer, we've met at this networking thing.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: He said, because it's very transient.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: When you live abroad, it can be quite transient.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't you don't necessarily want to invest time and money in being a friend with someone and then they move on, but it is part of it is part of what happens, you know, something happens, someone's parent gets sick and they want to go back to the UK and look after them.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: So there isn't an element of that to it for sure.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's a it is a lovely place to retire for sure.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, thank you so much for letting me pick your brains today because there's many, many a person often comes to me and asks me, you know, what is it like going and work over in Spain as a financial advisor or anywhere else in the world?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think, well, I'd rather get people on the podcast and tell their story and share their experiences because you're the guys doing the job.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for that.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: And without a doubt, we'll be helping a few of our listeners to make a decision in the future about where they work.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: No problem, Sam.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Nice to talk to you.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh keep up the good work with the podcasts.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Chris.