Latest / Andy Stanley Sermons / Andy Stanley - Great Leaders Lead Themselves Well, Part 1

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Andy Stanley - Great Leaders Lead Themselves Well, Part 1 · Andy Stanley Sermons

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: to help leaders go further, faster. I'm Andy, and joining
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: me for this special podcast series is Holly Goddard. Holly
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: has been a part of our organization for 15 years
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: in a variety of leadership roles. Currently, she serves on
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the leadership team for our entire organization. She also serves
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: as executive pastor at our largest campus. In corporate terms,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: that's basically a chief of staff. So thank you for
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: running point on this conversation. We've been looking forward to this.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so happy for the opportunity.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: And we're going to be unpacking your brand new book,
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: What Great Leaders Do, subtitled Seven Essentials for Enduring Impact.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: I'm so excited about this book and this conversation. And
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: I've had a front row seat to see all this unfold.
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: Like you said, I've been part of this organization for
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: 15 years.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: So you'll keep me honest. That's one of the reasons
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I wanted you to be a part of this is
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: This isn't theory.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: No, it's not theory.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: This is stuff you can put into practice Monday through Friday,
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: and it makes a difference.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: And I've seen it.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: I've seen the way teens have changed and how we
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: stayed on mission. So just excited to have a seat
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: on the bus and.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Be part of this.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: And I don't know if I've ever told you this story,
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: but you know I was a volunteer with our organization
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: before I actually joined. Right.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: We hire our best volunteers. That's how we get our
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: best staff.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: It was a good strategy.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: Yes, I worked in the sports marketing world before I
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: came on board here. And so.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Here's what I would do. I would come on Sundays.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: I would listen to things you would say from stage,
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: take notes. The leaders that were leading me as a volunteer,
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: I would watch how they would motivate and keep us
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: accountable and vision cast.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: And I would come back to my job and just.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Try to contextualize whatever I saw that was happening. And
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: I got a couple of promotions.
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  Speaker 1: You're welcome.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you for that. I appreciate it. I give you
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  Speaker 3: all the credit. And the best part, my favorite story, is.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: One day a co-worker came and knocked on my door
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: and she said, hey, What do you know that I
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: don't know? And really, I've just been watching in the
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: windows of what this organization had been doing. And so
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: I'm so glad that leaders now have access to this
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: material and to your book so that they can put this.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Stuff into practice.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Well, it's going to be fun to talk about.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: So let's jump in. You know, today you're in the
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: hot seat. You're usually the interviewer. And today I get
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: to be the interviewer. So you always start with one question.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: You always ask, why did you write this book? So, Andy,
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: why did you write What Great Leaders Do?
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this is interesting or relevant to
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: the question or not, but I didn't want to write
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: this book. The world needs more leaders. The world doesn't
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: need more leadership books. And for those of us who
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: love to read, we've read the management books, leadership books.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: And so I really wasn't motivated. And all the credit goes,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: and I've.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Said this before publicly, Susie Gray, who is the co-founder
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: of the Your Move Collective organization and is the executive
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: producer of this.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Podcast, for 10 years... This is hard to believe.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: For 10 years, she has been on me about writing
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: this book for 10 years. I've actually had a book
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: contract for 10 years. And I said, Susie, I don't
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: have time. I don't want to write a leadership book.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: The world doesn't need another leadership book. She sent me titles,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: potential titles. She would send me potential table of contents,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: like here's all this stuff you've been teaching all these years.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I've already organized it for you.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: She even had someone write a couple of chapters just
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: to say, would you.
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  Speaker 1: Please at least start the book?
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  Speaker 2: And I kept saying, no, no, no. And so the
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  Speaker 2: turning point, and I think this is relevant for the book.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: The turning point was she met with me and she
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: invited Matt Baher, who is one of the executive vice
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  Speaker 2: presidents at HarperCollins.
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  Speaker 1: And he oversees the leadership imprint. So the three of
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: us were in my office.
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  Speaker 2: And I was explaining to Matt what I've been telling
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  Speaker 2: Susie for 10 years. The world doesn't need another leadership book.
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  Speaker 2: I don't have time to write a leadership book. And
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Matt said, and this was sort of the tipping point.
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  Speaker 2: He said, Andy, well, then don't write a leadership book.
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  Speaker 2: just write a book to leaders. Just write a book
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: to leaders. And then he said, you like talking to leaders.
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  Speaker 2: I said, I love being around talking to leaders. He said,
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  Speaker 2: that's what you love to do. So just write a
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  Speaker 2: book to leaders. Now, I don't know the difference between
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: a leadership book and a book to leaders, but somehow
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: that conversation got me motivated to sit down and put
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  Speaker 2: this book together.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm grateful that I wrote the book. I love
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the book.
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  Speaker 2: It gave me an opportunity to tell stories I've never
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  Speaker 2: told before, to brag on people that I've had the
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  Speaker 2: opportunity to meet, the people who've influenced me. And so
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  Speaker 2: I'm super grateful to Susie and for bringing in Matt
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  Speaker 2: and that, for some reason, flipped the switch.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm so thankful for her persistence in that.
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  Speaker 1: Ten years.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, she was determined. Well, it's such gold, and
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  Speaker 4: it does feel like a conversation. That's the best part
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  Speaker 4: about it. It isn't like, hey, just hand off a
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  Speaker 4: bunch of insights. You can tell you've been on a
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: journey and you picked up a lot of insights along
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: the way.
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  Speaker 3: And in the.
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  Speaker 4: Introduction, there's something that grabbed my attention right from the start.
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: You say this, you say, if leadership is in fact
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  Speaker 4: a gift, it is the most wonderful, dangerous gift.
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  Speaker 3: What do you mean by that?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad we're starting there.
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  Speaker 2: My original title, once I finished with Matt and Susie,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: or once they finished with me, is I decided the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: title of the book was going to be Leadership, the Wonderful,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Dangerous Gift, or the Wondrous, Dangerous Gift. The idea behind that,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: and I teased this out at the beginning of the book,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: and this is where I maybe part ways with some
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: traditional thinking about leadership. Everybody can get better at pretty
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: much anything. Anybody can become a better leader. But I
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: think there are people who are born with a leadership gear.
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  Speaker 2: I can become a better snowboarder, but I'm, you know, nobody's,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not ever going to compete, right?
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So everybody can improve at everything. But I do believe
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  Speaker 2: there are people with a leadership gear. And here's what
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  Speaker 2: I mean by that, that they don't even try, but
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  Speaker 2: there's some sort of magnetism. There's some internal security. Sometimes
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  Speaker 2: there's charisma, but that's optional. Sometimes it's this hyper focus
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: around an idea. There are people, they cannot help but lead.
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  Speaker 2: They look behind them and people are following them. And
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  Speaker 2: so to our audience, if you have that gear, congratulations.
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  Speaker 2: But it is dangerous because people will follow people with
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: a leadership gear, whether they are worth following or not.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the international tragedies, other than weather related, where
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: a leader goes rogue, a dictator overplays his or her hand. Oftentimes,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, in every case, these are people with a
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  Speaker 2: leadership gear that led in a dangerous direction. And the
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: more responsibility, the more influence they have, the more dangerous
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  Speaker 2: they become. So to anyone with a leadership gear, whether
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: you read the book or not, it is the most
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  Speaker 2: wonderful gift because everything that happens, happens as a result
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  Speaker 2: of somebody leading or initiating not just an idea, but
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  Speaker 2: acting on it. And it's dangerous because if you're not
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  Speaker 2: mature enough, if you're not a leader worth following, it's
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  Speaker 2: a dangerous gift.
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  Speaker 1: So it really is the most wonderful, dangerous gift. In
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  Speaker 1: my notes, I wrote, and.
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  Speaker 2: This is from the book, that your giftedness has the
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  Speaker 2: potential to take you farther than your character and your
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  Speaker 2: maturity can sustain you.
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  Speaker 3: So that's a really big idea.
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  Speaker 4: Because I don't know if I've ever heard that before
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  Speaker 4: working in this organization.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, that's huge.
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  Speaker 4: Because if you don't get that competence and character thing
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  Speaker 4: in alignment, that's where a wake of.
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  Speaker 3: Destruction can happen.
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  Speaker 2: And people will follow you regardless because it's inherent.
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  Speaker 1: They're, again.
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  Speaker 2: leaders turn around and people are following. Other people, and
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  Speaker 2: I can't explain this, they say the same things, they
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  Speaker 2: attempt the same things, they turn around, nobody's following. And
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  Speaker 2: the leadership gear or gift, if we call it a gift,
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  Speaker 2: is not evenly distributed. People with every advantage in the
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  Speaker 2: world never gain a following. People with no advantages in
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  Speaker 2: the world turn out to be some of the most
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  Speaker 2: extraordinary leaders and the most extraordinarily gifted leaders. So I
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  Speaker 2: do think it's unique. I think it's a gear. I
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  Speaker 2: think if you have it, you have it. And if
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  Speaker 2: you don't, you can become better at anything. But I
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  Speaker 2: just think it's a gear. And the solution, because it's
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  Speaker 2: a dangerous gift, if I could read something from my
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  Speaker 2: notes real quick, the solution, because it's a dangerous gift,
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  Speaker 2: is not to demonize or minimize the importance of leadership.
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  Speaker 2: The gift is never the problem, right?
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  Speaker 1: It's how it's used.
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  Speaker 2: And the world needs more leaders, as I said earlier,
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  Speaker 2: not more leadership books. I mean, schools need leaders. Industry
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  Speaker 2: needs leaders. The church needs leaders.
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  Speaker 1: But.
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  Speaker 2: What we need are leaders who are worth following. And
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  Speaker 2: that's the character piece. And that's a lot of why.
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  Speaker 2: And that's one of the reasons I wrote this book.
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  Speaker 3: That's such an important conversation. I love thinking about the
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  Speaker 3: gear as a gift. Because if you have the gear.
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  Speaker 1: You know it.
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  Speaker 3: If you're listening to this podcast, you got the gear.
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  Speaker 3: If you're going to pick up books like this, you've
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: got the gear.
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  Speaker 2: Or you work for someone that you enjoy. There was
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  Speaker 2: a magnetism. There was something about them beyond the industry,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: beyond the specifics of the job. There's just, you find
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: yourself wanting to follow that person. And so, again, there's
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of debate around that, but that's my observation.
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  Speaker 4: Well, so if we have the gear, the most important
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  Speaker 4: thing about us is how we leverage it. And so
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  Speaker 4: I've noticed that you've organized this book into seven things,
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  Speaker 4: seven essentials is what you call them, to have enduring impact.
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  Speaker 4: So without giving it all away, what's the common thread
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: through the seven?
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  Speaker 2: The common thread is that Great Leaders Do Things. So
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  Speaker 2: that's the title, What Great Leaders Do. Doing, as we
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: say around our organization all the time, doing is what
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  Speaker 2: makes the difference. Believing doesn't make a difference. Ideas don't
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: make difference. It's what we do that makes the difference.
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  Speaker 2: And great leaders do specific things. I wrote in my notes,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: great leaders organizationally, to the subtitle of the book, do,
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  Speaker 2: I think, these seven things.
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  Speaker 1: There may be more than seven. There may be fewer.
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  Speaker 2: But as I think about organizationally, leaders specifically, organizational leaders,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: they do specific things that allow them to accomplish whatever
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: it is they set out to accomplish. But it really
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: is about doing. So if there's one takeaway from the book,
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: it would be for everyone who reads the book or
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: anyone just listening to this conversation, that at every critical
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: juncture in their life, whether it's at home or at work,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: they would pause and ask the question.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: What would a great leader do?
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  Speaker 2: Because, and I think this is especially true for people
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: with a leadership gear, we know somewhat intuitively what great
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: looks like in terms of character, in terms of others' firstness,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: in terms of sacrifice. Again, we admire and we acknowledge
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: that kind of leader as a great leader, not just
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: what they accomplished in the world or through their organization,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: but as a person. So if we can pause and
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  Speaker 2: ask at every critical juncture as leaders specifically, okay, I
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: know the options in front of me. I know what
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: everybody else would do. I know what everybody expects me
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  Speaker 2: to do. I know what everybody who came before me did.
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  Speaker 2: But what would a truly.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Great leader do?
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  Speaker 2: That's what I hope to leave people with, with this book,
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  Speaker 2: because that, that is a, that becomes a true North
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: kind of question, especially for leaders.
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  Speaker 1: And I just want to double down on this.
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  Speaker 2: And the reason it's, I mean, that's a great question
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  Speaker 2: for anybody to ask, but if you have a leadership
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: gear and people are going to follow you, regardless of
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: your mature, your maturity or your character, it is so
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: important that you stop and ask the question because you're
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: going to lead. You can't help, but lead and people
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: are going to follow you. So there's a higher level
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: of both accountability and responsibility because we've been given this
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  Speaker 2: gift of leadership. So that's the through line.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: A long answer to your question.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a really big, important question.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: You know, we have it.
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  Speaker 3: Painted all over our walls here.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Big letters.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: You know, if you're wondering what you should be asking yourself,
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: there's a good self-coaching question.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: It's on the walls in the halls. Yeah, exactly.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I really want anybody who comes to work here.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we do leadership training and all
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: the normal stuff and coaching. But at the end of
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the day, it's like, okay. Beyond that, if I'm really
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: committed to being a leader worth following, then what do
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I do?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you. I ran into this yesterday.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: I was in a meeting, and it was with a
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: bunch of leaders who had been promoted within the last year.
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  Speaker 1: In our organization.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: In our organization.
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  Speaker 4: And we were talking about, hey, what have you learned?
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  Speaker 4: What's different about your leadership? Alex, a girl who's so sharp,
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: young leader around here, she'd been promoted from leading a
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: team of one to 12.
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  Speaker 3: So big jump, right? Young leader. And she talked about
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: this question.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: And she said every time she gets up against the wall,
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: she sits there and says, okay, what would a great
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  Speaker 4: leader do?
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: And then she says, oh, crap.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: I know exactly what I'm supposed to do right now.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I got to comment on that. It's a very clarifying
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: question for anybody. but especially for people with a leadership gear.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: It's so intuitive in some ways, but we get busy.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: It's crunch time. We got to get things done. I
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: need to fill that position.
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  Speaker 2: I need to move on. I'm not even interested in that.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Everybody's making a big deal. And so we don't ask
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: the question. And so we become efficient. And in our efficiency,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: we all love efficiency. In our efficiency, we become less effective.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: And we miss the opportunities to do Great. And great
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: is as great does. Great is as great does. Great
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  Speaker 2: leaders do great things.
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  Speaker 4: Well, one thing I've noticed about all these essentials is
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: they're very behavior driven.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: All of them, right. They're specific.
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  Speaker 3: These are learnable behaviors. We can actually mimic.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: These before our mindset catches up. So we can act
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: like great leaders as we're on our way to becoming. Yeah.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: And one of the points throughout the book is, I mean, duh,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: if you do what, and this is why the question
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: is so important. If you do what a great leader
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: would do, you, in effect, become a great leader. Because
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: how do we recognize greatness in a leader? It's not
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: what they think.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: It's what they do. So this is an invitation. It's
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: an opportunity.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: And it's a reminder that we have a stewardship and
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: a responsibility. And we have the potential to do great
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: things and be, from the inside out, great leaders.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Everybody.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: So beyond just being on our walls around here, another
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: thing that we have is we have this wooden cube
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: that sits on our desk. And we have six staff
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: behaviors that we've said, hey, if you're going to be here, operate,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: be on the team, this is how we act. This
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: is how we behave. So these wooden cubes, they sit
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: on our desk. They remind us of the behaviors that
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: we're committed to. And I think that's important because we
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: all like to think we're pretty well behaved and we're
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: pretty mature, but it's just not always the case. In fact,
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: first line is, Chapter one, you say this, it's one
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: of my favorites. You say your greatest challenge confronts you
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: every morning in the mirror. You are, and you will
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: always be, difficult for you to lead. So why do
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: you start there?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it's true. The most difficult person
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: for me to lead is me. I'd like to think
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: it's somebody else, that I have myself under control. But
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: let's just be honest, self-control, there's no autopilot. Self-control is
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: every hour of Of every day, right?
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: And as much as I would love to leverage my
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: leadership skills to control everybody else in the organization, responsibility
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: number one is the person in the mirror. And I
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: am the most, I'm actually, think of it this way.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: And I tease this out a little bit. I'm the
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: only person I can control. I can influence other people.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I can try to influence other people. Nobody wants to
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: be controlled. And so what I wrote in my notes
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: is this, that leading ourselves well is where exceptional leadership begins.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Leading ourselves well is where exceptional leadership begins.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: And acknowledging that.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: We're difficult to lead is where self-leadership takes its next
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: extraordinary important step. So we have to acknowledge that we're
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: responsible for leading ourselves well. And acknowledging that is really
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: where exceptional self-leadership kind of finds traction And what I've
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: learned when I can keep this front and center, it
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: minimizes my tendency to try to control other people. Because
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: here's what every leader listening needs.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: You don't have to think.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Back too far to where you found yourself responding to
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: an internal deficit by trying to change the behavior of
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: other people. And when I can take full responsibility for
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: my part in whatever problem is created, I or whatever
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: crisis I'm trying to deal with, or whatever emergency, or
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: even small decisions. If I can take responsibility first for
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: my part, then the temperature comes down in how I communicate.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: With everybody else. But I would guess everybody.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Listening, and this may bring an illustration to mind, hopefully
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: not in our organization, Holly, where you were in front
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: of your leader, or you were in front of a
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: boss or a manager, and there was all this emotion.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: They were so angry or upset, and there was a tirade.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: And as you listened, you realized, I think you're part
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: of the problem and you've yet to own your part
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: of the problem. So I'm receiving what you need to
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: deal with before you walk, what you should have dealt
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: with before you walked into the room. Well, this is self-leadership.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: So it's beginning.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: This is why we begin here.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Leading ourselves well and taking responsibility for leading ourselves well
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: is where exceptional self-leadership begins.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: And then I'll stop.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: We all want to work with and for people who
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: take responsibility for themselves. And if they don't, then we
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: end up, because as we say all the time, my
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: irresponsibility will always become someone else's responsibility. My irresponsibility, somebody's
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: got to pick up the ball and figure out what
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: to do with it. So if I'm irresponsible personally, my
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: personal irresponsibility become somebody else's responsibility. And in organizational life,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: because I'm the boss and everything trickles down.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Right, downhill.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: There's no pushback. There's no comeback.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: It's just leave the room and figure out, huh, what
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: do we do now?
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: So this is where it all begins.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: And so that's what we explore in chapter one.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Well, that's so important because all pressure, all control, it
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: all rolls downhill and onto our people. And it makes
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: a very dysfunctional environment if you don't get this right.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: You introduced this idea of a gap. There's knowing better
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: and doing better. And we're on a spectrum and usually
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: there's a little bit of gap.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wrote that the gap between knowing and doing
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: is where most leadership failure lives. That when you think
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: about the leader who burned out or had to be
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: taken out, it was in that gap.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: It's not that they didn't know better. They just didn't
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: do better.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: So they just didn't manage the gap.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and here's the self-deception. And we talk a
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: lot about self-deception later on. The self-deception is because I
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: know better, then that's all I need to know.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I know. I know. In fact, with your kids, with
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: my kids, you've corrected your kids.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, how many times?
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And what did they say?
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Oh, I know. I know.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I know. And you're like, okay.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: You're still on the couch.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: There's something in this that's like, if I know what
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I need to do or should have done, then we're done,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: aren't we?
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: It's like, no, it's doing. And so internally, I know,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I know, I know.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: But if I don't do with what I know, nothing
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: changes because It's what we do that makes the difference.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: It's what doing is what makes the difference.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that gap manifests itself in lots of environments.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: In fact, in every relationship.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: And we're all prone to it. So we got to
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: watch that gap.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And again, I know I've said this, because we have
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: a leadership gear, for the average person who mismanages that gap, oh, well,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: you'll pay for it.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Personally or maybe privately.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: But in organizational life, everybody who, again, downstream from us
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: will eventually pay for that. And depending on the responsibility
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: a leader carries, the entire organization can suffer for a
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: lack of dealing with the gap between knowing and doing.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: So It's a big deal, and the more responsibility we have,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: the bigger deal it becomes.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: Well, after you introduce us to The Gap, you introduce
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: us to another surprising claim. You write this, Exceptional self-leadership
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: is not essential to organizational success.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: I put down the book.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: For a second when I read that because I was
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: not expecting to hear that from you. Just because most
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: leadership books, they don't say that.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: What's the contrast? What did you expect?
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I thought they have to be inextricably linked.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, gotcha.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: You know, like you have to be exceptional for your
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: organization to be exceptional.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: But you say not at all. Those two opposites can
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: be happening.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: At one time. You can accomplish extraordinary things in the
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: marketplace and not lead yourself well.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: We see this all the time, right?
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, people who are in the C-suite of, you know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Fortune 500, Fortune 100 organizations get taken out. for personal reasons,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: not always corporate, hey, stock share and those kinds of things,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: for personal behavior. And so they've led well, they've accomplished
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: great things, but they didn't lead themselves well. I mean,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: not to pick on anybody because this is the world
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: that we live in, but when a corporate leader has
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: to take a break to go to rehab, what they admit,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: what they acknowledge, this isn't, you know, I'm not throwing stones.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: They acknowledge, you know what? I have not led myself well.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: well in this area.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: So I have to go take care of me, which
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: kudos to them, right? I think it's extraordinary when somebody
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: goes public that way. And it's an example and gives
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: other people permission. But it's just the extreme example of
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: somebody who hasn't taken care of themselves well, and yet
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: they've been able to accomplish extraordinary things oftentimes in the marketplace.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Why this is important and why I write about it is,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: and this is what I write, it's tempting to equate
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: poor self-leadership with extraordinary outcomes.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Let me say that again.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: It's tempting, especially for young leaders. And I wrestled with this.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: It's tempting to equate poor self-leadership. In other words, when
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: we are confronted with or read about somebody who is a,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know what language to use since we're sitting
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: in church environment.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: They're a whatever. A jerk. A jerk.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: A jerk plus, plus, plus.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And we hear personally that that's how they lead and
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: their language and the way they treat people is terrible.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, they have extraordinary results. The temptation,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: especially for young leaders, is to equate those two things
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: and to think the only way to have that kind
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: of marketplace success is to be that kind of person.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: And that is absolutely not true.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: But because those are the stories we oftentimes hear, it's
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: easy to believe that, hey, good guys finish last.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Good guys finish last.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: That character is not only secondary, it might actually be
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: a hindrance to great marketplace success. And that is, I'm
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: convinced that's absolutely not the case. I write that those
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: leaders were successful in spite of their poor self-leadership, not
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: because of it. And for young leaders, this is a
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: very important lesson to learn early on.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because if you thought, hey, this is the price
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: of what it costs to be successful, to drop your
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: whole character so that you can be competent, you lose.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: At the end. And people don't want to follow those
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: kind of people.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: They don't admire that kind of thing. They may want
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: the outcome.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: We like the way they live, but we don't like them.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: We like the way they live and the way they travel,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: but we don't really like them and we don't want
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: to be like them. And the good news is you
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: don't have to be. And this is maybe off topic
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: a little bit. The One of the challenges, too, is
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: the big stories that we hear are generally in that category.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: You don't hear much about the extraordinary leader, the leader
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: who has extraordinary character and their priorities are in order.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Because what you hear about is the success of the company.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And you may never even know the personalities behind that
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: success because there's no story to tell.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: It doesn't go as viral.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: No, nobody wants to read good news. But most organizational
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: success is due to men and women who get this right,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: and they never become famous. And part of it is
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: they're constantly pushing other people out in the spotlight. And
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: they're more about the success of the organization rather than
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: their own success. So again, it leaves a lopsided picture
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: of leadership.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: Well, that's really important because we want to finish, we
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: want to be successful professionally, but personally, we want to
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: be leaders worth following.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: And you're saying we can have both.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: You can have both. Can I say one more thing
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: about that?
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: At the end of the book, at the prologue, excuse me,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: at the epilogue, at the end of the book, I
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: tell the story. I don't want to, go into the
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: details since we're at the beginning of the book, not
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: the end. But as a pastor, and every pastor listening
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: to this has had this experience, this isn't unique. When
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: you find yourself, and it's usually men, you're sitting across
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: the table from a successful man who's alienated his kids,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: marriage is in trouble, and he's like, what do I do?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: What do I do? And I've listened to so many
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: of those stories, and I'm gracious, and I'm like, hey,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: let's see what we can do.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: But here's my.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Takeaway after 40 years of those stories. that these oftentimes very,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: very successful men in organizational life, whether they're founders or
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: come in later and turn a company around, and I've
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: said this to them, would have been as successful or
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: 90% as successful. If they had managed themselves well, they
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: may have made a few less dollars.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: But insignificant.
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: The significance of their success would not have been impacted
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: greatly if they had gotten this right. But in the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: game and in the grind of it, it just feels like, no,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: this is all necessary. So one of the things I hope,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: especially young leaders take away from this book is, you
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: said it, is you can have both. You can be
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: successful together. in your personal life and corporate life. You
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: don't have to trade one for the other. And anybody
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: who tells you you have to, they're telling you their story.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: They're not necessarily telling you the truth.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a great vision of being able to finish
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: with character and competence. And to be able to do that,
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: we probably are going to have to have some discipline
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: along the way.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: You introduced us to a concept. It made me laugh
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: just because I resonated with it deeply. You call it
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: the internal sales associate.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I've got one of those.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: She's bossy, sometimes looks for loopholes.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: And her voice sounds a lot like yours.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: It does. It does. So it resonated. So explain that
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: one for us a little bit.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: And we've talked about this on the podcast before. This
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: isn't a new idea, but this is my first opportunity
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: to write about it.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: The internal salesperson is the person who's able to talk
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: me into things that no person knows. in a retail
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: outlet could ever talk me into. That when we, if
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you take the self-talk that we use to talk ourselves
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: into bad ideas, and if you were to put those
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: same words in the mouth of another person, you would
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: look at that person and say.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Do you think I'm a fool? But somehow when it's
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: me telling me, I'm like, oh yeah, this is a
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: great idea.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: So the takeaway here is whenever we catch ourselves selling ourselves,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: we should hit pause. When you catch yourself, you're driving
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: in selling yourself, You're driving home selling yourself. You're sitting
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: in the office or at the gym and you're just
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: selling yourself, convincing yourself. That's when you hit pause because
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: we rarely have to sell.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Ourselves on a good idea.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: That's huge.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's true, right? When we know something intuitively
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: is a good idea, it's like, yeah. What we end
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: up doing is selling ourselves away from what we know
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: intuitively is the right thing to do or the best
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: thing to do. For the organization or even for us personally.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: But this is part of self-leadership. It's realizing the person
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: in the mirror cannot always be trusted. The person in
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: the mirror is ruled oftentimes by their appetites. And for men,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I'll let you comment as a woman and a female leader,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: but for men, our ego... As one of our pastors,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Billy Phoenix, says, your ego is not your amigo.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, that should be on our wall as well, right?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: It should be.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Because my ego is you deserve it.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: You ought to. You've worked hard.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: They don't understand.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: Me, me, me.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: They don't care. They'll get over it. They'll just have
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: to deal with it.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Ego, ego, ego.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Again, this is all in the category of am I
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: willing to deal with the person in the mirror first
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: before I walk into a professional environment, organizational environment, and
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: try to lead other people? And the hypocrisy in all
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: of this is, I'll just make it personal. I expect
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: you to lead yourself well. And if you don't lead
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: yourself well, and I see it trickle down into the organization,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: we're going to have a conversation, right?
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: We are.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Well, if that's my expectation of you, I am a
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: hypocrite if I'm not leading myself well, or at least
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: attempting to and acknowledging that I can't always be trusted,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: that I have a tendency to sell myself on what
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I now versus what we need ultimately.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: So it's a big idea.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: Well, that's helpful because self-deception, it's just part of being human.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: It's just part of what we're going to deal with.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: And this helps us guard against ourselves. I can't tell
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: you how many times that you rarely have to sell
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: yourself on a good idea thing has stopped me from
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: doing bad things or making dumb decisions like with hiring.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Especially hiring.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, big time.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: I know. I mean, you're married to the person once
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: you bring them into the organization.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: Like, you've got to live with them. You've got to
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: deal with this.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And when you start talking yourself into it at
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: the beginning because you're tired of carrying all the work,
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: you want that immediate relief.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: We need somebody in that slot.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Just immediately.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: I'd rather be done with this than wait for the
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: right person.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: Anytime I've done that, it's been a bad idea.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, and this is so pervasive in our
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: organization that we will call each other out on that.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: You know, I've had two of my direct reports come
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: to my office before when they've seen me just going
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: around and around about a hire and say, hey, Are
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: you trusting your gut or are you selling yourself on this?
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Immediately.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: That's a great differentiation.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: In fact, there's a whole chapter here we'll get to
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: later about the leader's intuition. And when we ignore our intuition,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: we make mistakes. Because just as there's a leadership gear,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: there is a leadership intuition. And the longer you're in leadership,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: the stronger that intuition is.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: And when we.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Talk ourselves out of or talk ourselves or reason ourselves
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: around our own intuition.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: That's usually a problem.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: But again, we're good at it. That internal salesperson is
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: really good.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: So she's a red flag. He's a red flag, the salesperson.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: So if we're going to combat that sneaky salesperson of ours,
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: you introduce us to three self-leadership commitments. And these are
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: really foundational for the rest of the book. We're going
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: to talk about the first one. And then next time
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: we're going to talk about commitment two and commitment three.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: But commitment one says this, I will not lie to myself,
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: even when the truth makes me feel bad about myself.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: That seems simple, but it's not so easy.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: No.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: We were taught in school, depending on when somebody went
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: to school, not so much me because I'm older.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Maybe your generation, you were taught you should never feel
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: bad about yourself. Oh, you're good at everything.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Self-esteem movement.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Self-esteem movement. Yeah. Everybody gets a trophy. Nobody fails.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: And all this stuff.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Um, But there is something worse than feeling bad about yourself.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: And that is if there's something bad about yourself that
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: you don't feel bad about, that's bad. The worst thing
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: is to not feel bad about something that's bad because
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: if I don't feel bad about it, I don't change.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Pain is a catalyst for change. Pain is a catalyst
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: for change. And at some point, I need to acknowledge
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: what's wrong so that I deal with it and just
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: sugarcoating everything so I don't hurt my own feelings.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Great leaders, they are willing to hurt their own feelings.
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: Ooh.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Back to the ego not being your amigo.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, exactly. Because my ego don't want to, you know, Andy,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: you're the best. You're the greatest.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: People don't understand, blah, blah, blah. I wrote truth that
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: hurts ultimately helps, right? And as a parent, you got
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: three kids.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: You know that. Sometimes you have to have that hard conversation.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: With your daughters or your son, and it's hard for you.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: It hurts, but you're like, you know what?
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I'm a bad parent if I don't point out what's
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: bad in my child.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: And self-leadership is the same thing.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I got to talk to that person in the mirror
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: and point it out. So at times we have to
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: hurt our own feelings and great leaders tell themselves the
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: truth about themselves. And thus this first commitment, I will
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: not lie to myself even when the truth makes me
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: feel bad about myself. And in the book, and we've
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: talked about this before, on the podcast in the past,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: the best way, I think, to activate this commitment, because,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: you know, commitment is static. It's like a value. Organization values,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: they're static. We put them on the walls, then go
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: about our business. But here's how you activate this commitment.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: It's by asking this awful question. Why am I doing this?
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And then, why am I doing this? And you know
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the next word.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, really.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Really, right, because we talk about this all the time
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: in our organization. Why am I doing this? Why am
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I hiring him?
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: Really?
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Why am I avoiding her, really? Why am I late, really? Why,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: you know, why, why?
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: So confronting.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Because you know what? I've made this commitment. I don't
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: want the people who report to me to lie to me.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Why would I put up with me lying to me?
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: When you realize that you have an employee that's a liar,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: you fire the liar.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: You have to. You fire the liar. You can't lead
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: a liar. You fire the liar.
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Every once in a while, we need to look in
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: the mirror and fire the liar in the mirror and
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: tell ourselves the painful truth.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: And here's what I push hard on.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Even if you aren't, and you are, even if a
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: person isn't willing to follow through on what acknowledging the
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: truth points them toward, even if you're not willing to
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: follow through on what telling yourself the truth points you toward,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: you should at least admit it to yourself and say,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: you know what? The real reason I'm doing this is blank,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: and I'm just going to do it anyway. That's better
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: than never acknowledging the why. Why is that? Well, because
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: once I face the real reason, I'm more inclined to
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: make a better decision.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: And this is why we argue with our kids, right?
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: When we argue with our kids, we're trying to get
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: them to see something they at first can't see. And
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: then as the argument proceeds, we realize they won't see it, right?
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: With your children, you've got teenagers. With my three kids,
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: it's like, okay. I know you see what I see now,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: but you won't admit it. And the reason they won't
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: admit it, if I admit it, I got to do
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: something with it.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Well, the same is true for me in the mirror.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: If I'm willing to admit the real reason I'm doing this,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: the personal accountability and acknowledging that oftentimes is the catalyst
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: for moving in a different direction.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: But this is all self leadership.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: And it's not complicated because we create the same dynamic
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: with people outside of the mirror all the time. So
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: we just got to bring it in, start there before
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: we start doing all.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: This other stuff.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Not complicated, just hard work.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a discipline, right?
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And like any discipline, on the backside, we feel better
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: than ever. I finished that exercise routine. I said no
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: to dessert. I stuck with my diet. On the backside,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: it's liberating. And that's the better way to live.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: So I love that.
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: Well, we don't lie to ourselves because we're inherently, you know,
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: our character's so bad.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: It's just, it's part of being human.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: It's part of being human.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: So that's okay.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I don't want to feel bad about it.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're all going to do it to avoid discomfort.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: But the first step towards growing is being honest. So
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: let me end with this question. If somebody reads what
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: great leaders do, and they only take one thing away,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: what do you hope that is?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: This is what I wrote because you gave me the
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: questions ahead of time, which I appreciate.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: I guess this would be the takeaway, that your.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Accomplishments may make your name known. And again, I'm really
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: answering the question to this first part of the book,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm not answering the question as you ask it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: But as far as this conversation goes, that your accomplishments
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: may make your name known, may make your name known.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: How you lead yourself will determine what people ultimately associate
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: with your name, that we are remembered for our final moments,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: not necessarily our finest moments. And self-leadership is a through
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: line from beginning to end.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: And again, we may be known.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: In some context for something we've done, but what is
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: going to be most associated with our name is really
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: goes back to how we lead ourselves. And most leaders
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: spend their careers focused on the first part of that equation.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Making their name known.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: And give very little attention, unfortunately, to what will be
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: associated with their name in the end.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: And that's important.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Again, that's legacy.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: That's family.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: That's what happens in the next generation in the organizations
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: we started or that we love.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: Well, when we see this in the business we're in,
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: we see this weekly because we deal with a lot
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: of life and death. I mean, we host a funeral
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: probably every week. And what you've accomplished.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: What's said at funerals, that's usually about two sentences. But
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: people go on and on.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: You know, you've heard the resume side of you and
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: the eulogy side of you. People go on and on
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: about who you were, how you made them feel, how
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: you impacted their lives.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: So this is all really what this whole.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: You know, I hadn't thought about that before.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: But because, in fact, this past week, we were part
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: of just a tragic funeral.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: 45-year-old father and husband.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: And because this is almost, it's not weekly, but every
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: other week we're engaged, it really does something, I think,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: for us that most people don't have an opportunity.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I say opportunity. It's tragic. But we do have.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: A built-in reminder because of the occupation we have to
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: remember what's important. And how many times have we sat through,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: because we don't even call them funerals. We call it
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: a celebration of life. We have people tell stories. It's
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: a celebration of life. How many times have we sat
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: through those? And at the end, even if we didn't
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: know the person going in, we felt like we knew
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: the person on the back end. And what we felt
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: like we knew was not what they accomplished, but who
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: they were. And at the end, as you said, that's
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: what celebrated. And that's why getting this right is so important.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: And I just want to say to everybody listening, getting
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: this right will not hinder your success in life. It
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: will facilitate your success in life. You'll enjoy your life more.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: And ultimately, hopefully, you'll enjoy going home as much as
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: you enjoy going to work. And there is a way
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: to win in both spheres. But it starts in the mirror.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: That's so good, Andy.
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: Hey, I can't wait to jump into commitment two and
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: three next time.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: But your podcast audience doesn't have to wait.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: They can go ahead and grab their copy of What
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Great Leaders Do wherever books are sold.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: And you read the Audible version, right?
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I kind of preach the Audible version. I have
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: a bad habit.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: When I read my books for Audible, I stand up
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: and I find myself kind of preaching.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: It's going to be inspiring.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: It hopefully will be inspiring. And there will be some
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: additional things. It's the Unabridged Plus version of the book.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: As you said, that's a wrap for this episode. But
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: before you go, if you would take a minute and
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: subscribe wherever you access this content. By subscribing, you help
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: us grow the audience, which allows us to keep bringing
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: you great content to help you go further faster.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: As a leader.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: And be sure to visit the andystanley.com website where you
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: can download a leadership podcast application guide that includes a
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: summary of our discussion in this episode. Plus, there will
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: be some questions for reflection either for you as an
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: individual or for group discussion. And we will see you
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: back here next time on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast.