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How One Student's Email Confirmed Rebecca Kindreich's Career Calling · I Don't Know You

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Matt, and welcome to my recorded conversations for I Don't Know You.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: My search in learning from leaders about their stories and applying their lessons
0:12
SPEAKER_00: to my own journey as I seek to better understand myself.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: If you enjoy what you hear or have a guest you'd like me to ask on, I'd love to hear from you.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: You can shoot me a DM,
0:21
SPEAKER_00: subscribe wherever you listen to this,
0:23
SPEAKER_00: share it with a friend, and follow me for more of this kind of content.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Today, I'm joined by Rebecca Kendrick,
0:28
SPEAKER_00: who leads SEEDS,
0:29
SPEAKER_00: a Christ-centered counseling organization that works alongside schools to care
0:34
SPEAKER_00: for K-12 students, as well as private practice for families and adult individuals.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Rebecca has spent decades in this field helping students and families find the care
0:43
SPEAKER_00: that they need.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: We talk about her journey,
0:46
SPEAKER_00: what it looks like to build a culture of retention,
0:48
SPEAKER_00: and how our relationships with technology are shaping our lives for good and
0:52
SPEAKER_00: for ill.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy!
0:54
SPEAKER_02: Cause if I'm gone too, I'll leave the phone, a phone home with them.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: And then you'll take your work one or
0:59
SPEAKER_02: whatever.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Is there like,
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming there's clinical data and studies on like,
1:04
SPEAKER_00: what is the right age for a, or is it just variable?
1:08
SPEAKER_02: They say as long as you can wait, that's what all the experts, the longer you can hold out.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: That was a long time ago.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: My kids waited a lot longer, but yeah.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: When did they get a phone?
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Until they were 15.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: High school, right?
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: Nico waited a little bit, even though he started high school.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: We were like, uh, but then we struggled.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: We were like, uh, we can't get what we can't buy him.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: But I think it worked because my kids were tag along with each other.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: So like one of them could
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: I was in, I think I was like 17.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was really old.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, homeschooled, you know.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I didn't know you were homeschooled.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: But, yeah, does it explain some gaps?
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: That's always how it works.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, once my secret is out, then nobody can see me the same way.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I ended up all right.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: That's good to know.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Like as long as possible.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: They say as long as possible.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: So we just made that rule.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, you can get it in height.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: Because you go to a private school, you can't have your phone anyhow in there.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: And there is drama that happens like on these group texts and chats and stuff.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: And so luckily they weren't part of any of that, you know?
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's why sports as much as like, it keeps them preoccupied.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: So when they're not, they are on devices or electronics or whatever, you know?
2:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like, what are they actually doing with their time day to day?
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Because like, what did we used to do?
2:44
SPEAKER_02: Because like, that's all they do if they're not, and they all want to be streamers.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, we know what kind of girl she was growing up.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: They're all wannabe streamers too.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: And they're making a lot of money.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: Like so many of these people and young kids I know.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: They're making.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: I live into that fantasy sometimes where I'm like,
3:07
SPEAKER_00: oh, it sounds so easy to just like make videos and make money doing it.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: It's like, actually, yeah, it's like quite a bit harder.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: My brother-in-law, that's what his fiancee does.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: She makes.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Dang.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: That's what she does.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: She makes a lot of money and she's the breadwinner there.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Man, we should do like a...
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Like a subathon with her for seeds.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: A what?
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Like it's basically a donation drive, but through like streaming.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, the problem is her mother-in-law, future mother-in-law is my sister.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: So that might be competition.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: No, but if we ask her first, then.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: My sister would be like, that's a great idea.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: How do we do that?
3:51
SPEAKER_00: She can do it for both.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: It's not a big deal.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Hey, it's
3:54
SPEAKER_02: my idea.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: We get 50-50.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: That's actually, we should probably explore that idea.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: We could, yeah.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: Because if there's actual.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: She makes a lot of money.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: But that's like a very well thought through format.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of streamers.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm assuming she's on Twitch or something.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: I think she gets paid from TikTok.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: They send her the check.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: So she's a part of their creator program or whatever.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: And putting on makeup.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: Such an interesting... Yeah.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: It's a different world.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: But she's definitely...
4:25
SPEAKER_00: There's a certain profile.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Made up for it.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
4:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: And she knows that it's time limited.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, my looks are only going to be this long.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: And she doesn't like doing it.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, she doesn't enjoy doing it.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: So there's definitely a...
4:41
SPEAKER_00: Like a countdown clock there.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: Cause it is just like grueling to do that.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: It's like six hours, but she made 800 bucks in six hours, right?
4:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: How old is she?
4:52
SPEAKER_02: 25.
4:53
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Man.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: I always think about like the psychology of,
4:58
SPEAKER_00: of like being in a world and an industry like that too,
5:01
SPEAKER_00: where it's like,
5:03
SPEAKER_00: it sounds really challenging to kind of like separate real life
5:07
SPEAKER_00: from like this digital version of yourself.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: That is real life on some level.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: And I don't even know what it is.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: Like they've never showed me clips or anything.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, I know it's legitimate.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: It's all through that.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: He said that she sometimes will have Bible verses or verses a day.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you can
5:25
SPEAKER_00: like have a ticker,
5:26
SPEAKER_00: like almost like a, yeah, there's so many different options.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: But I don't think, I think it's, people are more for the sex drive thing.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: That's what I think it is all about, to be honest.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: So interesting to think about as like a very young parent trying to and especially
5:44
SPEAKER_00: a young parent of daughters where it's like,
5:46
SPEAKER_00: oh, this is just the world they're going to grow up in.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the right tension?
5:51
SPEAKER_00: And like, I need you to understand this.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: But I also like understand that this is a really like scary world in some ways
6:01
SPEAKER_00: to be like,
6:03
SPEAKER_00: you need to have a phone at some point because that's how like people communicate.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's how we Get around and stuff like, yeah,
6:10
SPEAKER_00: we can't have you like our grandparents growing up could like just we would unlock
6:15
SPEAKER_00: the door and they would go play out in the neighborhood or whatever.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: And then eventually they'd come back for food or whatever to sleep.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: But now it's like, oh,
6:24
SPEAKER_00: there's just a different level of
6:26
SPEAKER_00: kind of security because of the globalization of
6:28
SPEAKER_00: the world where it's like, oh, that's not a yeah, it's just so.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: The tensions of that.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And especially like what is technology going to look like.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: And even they're saying the way the brain is developing, especially with AI.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: And I was just talking to somebody too, like,
6:43
SPEAKER_02: you know,
6:43
SPEAKER_02: AI had failed me twice on two different things,
6:46
SPEAKER_02: like, you know, stupid things like parking rates.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: And like the tournament this weekend, right?
6:52
SPEAKER_02: And it pulled it from the website, all this stuff.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: And it was not accurate.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: It was wrong.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: It was not the right rule, right?
6:59
SPEAKER_02: And so, but the kids are like, no, but it pulled it.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: No, this is legitimate.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: It came from here.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: It's incredible.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: The level of trust for it.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, but no, it's wrong.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: Here it is.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: Like offloading your thinking.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, they don't have a frame of reference
7:33
SPEAKER_00: for like actually having critical thinking built around that system.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: If it's just like, oh, well,
7:41
SPEAKER_00: the internet is this thing that I interact with all the time
7:45
SPEAKER_00: and it feels really small when I'm on it.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
7:49
SPEAKER_00: then you understand the technology and it's like literally designed, I mean,
7:54
SPEAKER_00: social media is literally designed by trillion dollar corporations to like keep you
8:00
SPEAKER_00: on those.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: And then with AI,
8:03
SPEAKER_00: it's like,
8:04
SPEAKER_00: The same rules of engagement are happening there,
8:07
SPEAKER_00: but it's just like, oh,
8:08
SPEAKER_00: how do you build emotion into this non-emotional thing where it's like,
8:12
SPEAKER_00: oh, but I talked to it about my problems that I'm working through.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And it's like,
8:17
SPEAKER_00: that's why I think about the services that Seeds is providing and what you,
8:22
SPEAKER_00: what the mission of it is,
8:23
SPEAKER_00: where it's like, oh, well, no,
8:25
SPEAKER_00: you need real people that are qualified,
8:27
SPEAKER_00: that go through a bunch of schools that aren't going to hallucinate on Like, oh,
8:32
SPEAKER_00: it's actually like you should be doing this thing with your your friend
8:36
SPEAKER_00: in this situation.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: And it's like sometimes I think there's probably some layer of truth there.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: But then like it's not actually looking out for your best interest.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: It's just like I pulled a bunch of data that I had access to and the gaps
8:51
SPEAKER_00: that I couldn't find any data for.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: I just like filled in.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: So it's some version of the truth.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh, man, that is just really scary to.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, at Abiding Savior this year,
9:01
SPEAKER_02: they said,
9:02
SPEAKER_02: we are cutting back on using computers and technology,
9:05
SPEAKER_02: and we're going back to pen and paper for a lot of things.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: So we're still using Google Classroom and stuff,
9:11
SPEAKER_02: but not as much, and things are going to be more pen and paper.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: So schools are starting to get that trend of, and they already block AI.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: Whenever I go there, I have to shut off my Wi-Fi because I can't access my AI on campus.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: Totally, yeah.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: And they said, we're okay to use it for creative ideas and things like that, but not
9:34
SPEAKER_00: to, yeah.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: The last episode that I did was with my brother and he's a teacher in Arizona and
9:43
SPEAKER_00: the school that he teaches at has pretty strict policy.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: They do the same thing,
9:48
SPEAKER_00: but it's like when you're in the classroom,
9:50
SPEAKER_00: you're not using,
9:51
SPEAKER_00: like you don't use a laptop for almost any School,
9:54
SPEAKER_00: like any essays that you do, you do in class and you write them by hand.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: And so like,
10:01
SPEAKER_00: I think that's like really challenging,
10:03
SPEAKER_00: but it's also really great where I was in this like weird space and time
10:08
SPEAKER_00: where I could like bring my laptop to class and like do stuff with it.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: So I'm grateful for that.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's why I've never been as good a student.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: But we were talking a lot about AI because I think it has so many implications
10:21
SPEAKER_00: for like, how do we learn and train ourselves in anything?
10:26
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like this huge unlock in some ways where it's great.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Like we can have a meeting about like marketing deliverables and I can mock up
10:35
SPEAKER_00: the marketing deliverables in a couple of minutes and like have something
10:39
SPEAKER_00: that we can react to and have feedback with.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: But then at the same time,
10:44
SPEAKER_00: there's a level of creative knowledge Ownership that you take away from
10:49
SPEAKER_00: that process.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like in a bunch of different levels.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: So it's just such a,
10:56
SPEAKER_00: even in the work that you guys are doing,
10:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that shows up so much in the conversations that you're having with clients.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: And then like the expectations that maybe they have around like therapy
11:10
SPEAKER_00: and counseling because of like what they've been informed by Quote,
11:14
SPEAKER_00: unquote,
11:15
SPEAKER_00: by AI about like what they should be or what it isn't or and then how is it changing
11:20
SPEAKER_00: that and all that kind of
11:21
SPEAKER_01: stuff.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: But that's part of why I'm so fascinated to talk to you and kind of hear more
11:27
SPEAKER_00: of your story of how you got into therapy and social services and counseling and all
11:34
SPEAKER_00: that kind of stuff kind of before like what you're doing now with Seeds,
11:39
SPEAKER_00: the nonprofit that you started and like before Concordia,
11:42
SPEAKER_00: how did you How did you even get into this line of work?
11:47
SPEAKER_00: How did you get excited about it?
11:49
SPEAKER_00: Was there someone that kind of built that passion inside of you?
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think a few things.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: One, my dad, when I was born, was diagnosed with Parkinson's.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: I was the youngest of four.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: So always sort of, I don't know, in that caring mode.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: And then I'm the youngest of four.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: And so my oldest sister...
12:14
SPEAKER_02: Got into the world of social work and I always looked up to her and I thought,
12:21
SPEAKER_02: hey, that's sort of cool.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Also, in high school, I did sports and I was a runner and I was...
12:30
SPEAKER_02: I did pretty well.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: So I was the captain, you know, at a young age on the team at sophomore, junior, senior year.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:37
SPEAKER_02: And people would always come and talk to me and just listen.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: And I learned so much about the psychology of sports,
12:45
SPEAKER_02: like being an athlete myself at that time and then going to college
12:48
SPEAKER_02: and doing it there also.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: And so that field always like just intrigued me of like, Hey, this is sort of interesting.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: And these are the classes that I actually like to go to compared
13:00
SPEAKER_02: to I'm not really excited about English or history or these things.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: But psychology, like that's easy.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: Like that makes sense to me.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting, you know, to me.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I think some of that.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Was there so your your dad and your older sister were like the people that kind of like.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Opened your world to like, oh,
13:20
SPEAKER_00: this this is a thing that was there ever a conversation that you had
13:25
SPEAKER_00: with your sister where it was like an acknowledgement of like,
13:29
SPEAKER_00: oh, I'm following in your footsteps in this way.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, that's cool.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Or was she encouraging in that?
13:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: When I was six, we moved from California to Ohio.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: My dad needed to be back by his family for the Parkinson's and stuff.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: And that's where his roots are.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: And so my sister was 14.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: So she came back to California four years later to go to college at Concordia
13:56
SPEAKER_02: or Christ College, Irvine.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: That's what it was called at the time.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: And so she did that.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: And when I turned 18, I went to Concordia.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: And followed her.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: And my brother also went there, too.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Did your parents go there?
14:10
SPEAKER_02: No.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: But relatives, cousins.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: Ah, okay.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: So it's a family affair.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: It's a family, yes.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Lutheran-based roots.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: A lot of pastors in the family.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: And that was a way to get back to California.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: So I had one sister who's still in Ohio.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: But you didn't like Ohio weather.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: I have one sister there.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: I miss the fall.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: In fact, that's the one I really wanted to go this year.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Especially now.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: I really wanted to go this year, but just couldn't pull it off.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: But I do not miss the winters, and I do not miss the humidity or the hot.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: So were you at Concordia when your sister was there?
14:48
SPEAKER_02: So no, because she had graduated, but she was going through.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: When I graduated from undergrad, she graduated from USC with her master's in social work.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: So she...
14:59
SPEAKER_02: So you guys were still in
15:00
SPEAKER_00: California together.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: And we would go stay at her house.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: We lived all together.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: My roommates would go move in with her.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: And my brother and sister had a house.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: And so I moved in there.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: My college roommate moved in there.
15:16
SPEAKER_02: That's super special.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: So we just sort of followed that.
15:20
SPEAKER_02: And so when I said,
15:21
SPEAKER_02: when I graduated from Concordia with my behavioral science with the emphasis
15:26
SPEAKER_02: in psychology, I was like, Well, what do I do now, right?
15:31
SPEAKER_02: And so I went and I worked with developmentally disabled adults.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: And I was coaching some cross-country at a high school.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: And so it allowed me to do both.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: And as I was trying to figure out, I'm like, do I want to do physical therapy?
15:46
SPEAKER_02: Do I want to do, you know, what do I want to do?
15:50
SPEAKER_02: And so after so many years of working with the disabled,
15:54
SPEAKER_02: Actually, they were high functioning adults, 18 and older, living independently.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: But some of them had like dual diagnosis.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: So they had maybe some mental health issues and their disability.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: And so originally I decided, hey,
16:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to go back and get my master's and become a therapist
16:11
SPEAKER_02: because I would take them or my staff would take them to these appointments.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: I was sort of overseeing the services.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: And there wouldn't be therapists that knew how to work with them.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: And I love these clients.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: They were amazing clients.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: And I do a lot of socialization with them.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: But it was frustrating.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: You couldn't find somebody either who was willing to work with them or knew how.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: Just because they were so challenging.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because there's different.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, I'm going to go in and that's what I'm going to do.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to work with,
16:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to get,
16:39
SPEAKER_02: be a licensed therapist and work with people with disabilities, right?
16:43
SPEAKER_02: Because there's such like a need there.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: And so I went in and in my graduate program at Long Beach first year,
16:51
SPEAKER_02: they put me with working with older adults.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: And so I did that for a year and it's okay, you know.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Older adults with disabilities?
16:58
SPEAKER_02: No, just older adults, right?
17:00
SPEAKER_02: They wanted to put you in something that you haven't experienced before is how it works.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: And in the second year, you have a little bit more of a say.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: And I said, hey, Concordia just started this new counseling center there.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: What about working with college students?
17:14
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't sound too intimidating to me because I was still in my 20s and like, ah, you know.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: And so I ended up going over to Concordia and did a year of internship
17:25
SPEAKER_02: and absolutely loved working with the college students
17:27
SPEAKER_02: and realized therapy is pretty difficult.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, that would be challenging and it would be really hard to deal with the disabled.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's another whole level, right?
17:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's like why...
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Why you didn't see a lot of, like when you were trying to refer, you didn't see a lot of that.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why, like it is definitely a special niche.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, so from, then I worked at, or I did my internship from Concordia for my last year.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: And then I was hired over at UCI Medical Center as a medical social worker.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: And A year later, Concordia offered me a position too.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: So I worked both of them per diem and part-time.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: And so I got to learn a lot for five years over at UCI Medical Center.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: That sounds just like a fire hose of
18:14
SPEAKER_02: education.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: And that's what it was.
18:17
SPEAKER_02: Because I was a floater per diem,
18:19
SPEAKER_02: so I could work in the psych unit where it's a locked psych unit
18:23
SPEAKER_02: and got some good experience, whether it was adults, older adults, or teens.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: Or I might be in labor and delivery or burn or cancer or ER.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: So I would go to all the different areas and each one or med surge,
18:36
SPEAKER_02: each one was a little bit different.
18:39
SPEAKER_02: But it was like you put a bandaid on everything there.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: So because you might see a patient a few times,
18:46
SPEAKER_02: unless I was in cancer center,
18:48
SPEAKER_02: then I could see client, you know, patients come in more.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: And that's it for a few days, right?
18:54
SPEAKER_00: Such a, yeah, that's like an interesting insight.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I was like,
18:58
SPEAKER_02: how does it,
18:58
SPEAKER_02: even in the locked units,
19:00
SPEAKER_02: right, as soon as they stabilize, they just have to stabilize, they're out.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: And so it's like, well, yeah, you get them sort of stabilized, but then what's after?
19:11
SPEAKER_00: And then you might, like, I'm assuming you saw clients, like, come back through sometimes.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes, uh-huh.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: And that's just, like, so disheartening probably.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
19:23
SPEAKER_02: It was hard because you're like, well, where are they going to go now?
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like are we just going to be in a cycle of you like getting stabilized,
19:30
SPEAKER_00: the system as effective as it is, like pushing you out and then you coming back in.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: So then God called me to be full time over at Concordia.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: I was associate director,
19:43
SPEAKER_02: got licensed,
19:44
SPEAKER_02: became the director, you know, of the counseling center for 12 years over there.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: And I just love that population,
19:54
SPEAKER_02: had an amazing team of therapists that I worked with alongside me
19:59
SPEAKER_02: and really supportive boss.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, God calls you in another direction.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: And that's where my kids were.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: My daughter was in kindergarten, my oldest.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: My church, Abiding Savior, church and school, and that's where we had my daughter.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: And they were trying to figure out how can we get services over here.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: So I was trying to figure out like with Concordia, hey, can we support some of these schools?
20:24
SPEAKER_02: But I know we're like bursting at the seams ourselves over here.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: So how do we do that?
20:30
SPEAKER_02: At the same time,
20:31
SPEAKER_02: we would be working with students,
20:33
SPEAKER_02: maybe like about 100 cases a week of therapy that my therapist would see there.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: And I, again,
20:41
SPEAKER_02: started stepping away of doing more of the direct services
20:44
SPEAKER_02: and doing more supervision and overseeing things and involved when there was
20:48
SPEAKER_02: a crisis situation.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: And so anytime we had a student that was highly suicidal,
20:54
SPEAKER_02: doesn't matter if my licensed therapist was seeing it,
20:56
SPEAKER_02: associate or trainee,
20:58
SPEAKER_02: I would get called in to help assess if we were getting to that level and be part
21:02
SPEAKER_02: of it.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: And what we would learn through the history taking,
21:05
SPEAKER_02: and this was prior to COVID,
21:07
SPEAKER_02: was That they were struggling with this like middle school,
21:11
SPEAKER_02: high school, no intervention.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: And now they're snowballed into this crisis.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: And like literally I'm going to go kill myself right now,
21:19
SPEAKER_02: you know, or they've attempted, you know.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: And it was all those like death by a thousand.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is a bad analogy.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I shouldn't be using that analogy.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: But that idea of like it started way before.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: And it just never was addressed.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: And then, okay.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: And then COVID hit and things were changing, you know, over at the university.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Everybody spun out of control then.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: Everybody spun out of control.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: And God just sort of opened this door and put it on my heart like,
21:48
SPEAKER_02: hey, you got to work with these kids and these schools.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: And the private schools don't get the funding for mental health,
21:55
SPEAKER_02: whereas the public schools, they get some funding through federal and state funds.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: And so there was this need, like Christian education.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: School still, you know, mental health doesn't discriminate.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Whether you're Christian or non-Christian, it still exists in both.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: And so how do we support these Christian private schools, again,
22:15
SPEAKER_02: that don't have a lot of money,
22:17
SPEAKER_02: don't pay their teachers nearly what the public schools are paying.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, it is really challenging.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, that's where SEEDS came about.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: And God has blessed us throughout this time to Slowly but surely,
22:31
SPEAKER_02: you know, grow from three of us that were doing it to now like 21 of us, you know.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: And just,
22:39
SPEAKER_02: you know,
22:39
SPEAKER_02: putting the right people there, giving us the students we're supposed to see.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: But a lot of life lessons and learning and
22:47
SPEAKER_00: patience and
22:48
SPEAKER_02: trust.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Were there specific, like,
22:50
SPEAKER_00: was there any sort of,
22:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
22:52
SPEAKER_00: this is such a big question that I feel like it's hard to answer,
22:55
SPEAKER_00: but working at Concordia,
22:59
SPEAKER_00: were there Kind of lessons from working at an institution
23:03
SPEAKER_00: that have been really invaluable in like building your own organization
23:07
SPEAKER_00: with this team that that you're like grateful to have had that experience working
23:12
SPEAKER_00: for a big institution.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think for sure,
23:16
SPEAKER_02: because Concordia Wellness Center only started a couple of years before me
23:21
SPEAKER_02: and I was really the first full time director director that was there for You know,
23:29
SPEAKER_02: any substantial amount of time.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: And so part of some of the things I was doing was I was part of a lot
23:37
SPEAKER_02: of different organizations.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: So whether it was like all the university
23:42
SPEAKER_02: and college university counseling center directors would get together.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: In California,
23:47
SPEAKER_02: and you would meet once or twice a year,
23:49
SPEAKER_02: and you'd go to those meetings,
23:50
SPEAKER_02: and you'd hear that these big schools,
23:52
SPEAKER_02: like USC or whatever,
23:53
SPEAKER_02: are struggling with the same things
23:55
SPEAKER_02: as these little Concordia University is struggling with.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: But you built those relationships there,
24:00
SPEAKER_02: and then we would have a smaller niche,
24:02
SPEAKER_02: which was like,
24:04
SPEAKER_02: you know,
24:04
SPEAKER_02: the Christian private schools locally that I was really well connected with.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: And I actually sort of spearheaded that.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: It was going for a little bit and sort of dropped off.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: And so when I came on, I said, what happened to that?
24:17
SPEAKER_02: That seemed like it was a really good thing.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: So then we started that back up with about 10
24:21
SPEAKER_02: or 12 different university directors locally from Biola and APU.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Just to kind of like share notes and be like, this is working.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: Are you having this challenge?
24:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we could email each other like, hey, what are you doing on this?
24:33
SPEAKER_02: And how are you dealing with the wait list?
24:35
SPEAKER_02: Are you guys seeing...
24:36
SPEAKER_02: The same influx that we now know is just the new normal
24:40
SPEAKER_02: and it's not something that's going to change.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really fascinating because I feel like, yeah,
24:45
SPEAKER_00: you probably saw that transition from like more awareness around mental health,
24:50
SPEAKER_00: like as a piece of your health holistically,
24:54
SPEAKER_00: where it was like,
24:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm so curious about what if you had to put a year on it,
25:00
SPEAKER_00: when when do you see that transition?
25:04
SPEAKER_02: Transition for like
25:05
SPEAKER_00: people being more aware of mental
25:07
SPEAKER_02: health.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh,
25:13
SPEAKER_02: gosh, I feel like if I left in 2021.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: Maybe 2015, 2016,
25:22
SPEAKER_02: somewhere around there where it started getting bad
25:25
SPEAKER_02: and we kept saying every year we'd go to these conferences and we're like,
25:29
SPEAKER_02: oh, it's not changing.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: It's actually getting worse, right?
25:33
SPEAKER_02: So probably by 2018, we're like, I guess this is just the new normal.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: And was that like the, was the conclusion there like mostly the like hyper digitalization?
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, some of that was like some of the socialization.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the, yeah, I think back then it was all like the internet.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Like people are spending less time with people.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, the connectivity and all that stuff.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: And it got way worse once COVID hit, obviously, right?
26:02
SPEAKER_00: It's like a different dip.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Like there's the, yeah,
26:07
SPEAKER_00: almost like the Great Depression versus the, like a Great Recession or something.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I just listened to this podcast of,
26:16
SPEAKER_02: of somebody and he was, he's this big, he worked for life insurance companies.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: And so he's like,
26:24
SPEAKER_02: they have the most data of people of death and you know,
26:29
SPEAKER_02: how people died in their lifestyle.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: And he's saying,
26:32
SPEAKER_02: and I've heard this,
26:33
SPEAKER_02: you know,
26:34
SPEAKER_02: before too,
26:34
SPEAKER_02: like the number one thing that people live the longest is being connected
26:40
SPEAKER_02: and socialization, right?
26:41
SPEAKER_02: So that's the number one predictor and factor of how long people are going
26:47
SPEAKER_02: to live is having to do a lot with that.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: And then comes health and sleep and all that kind of stuff.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: The conflict resolution that has to happen and the
26:58
SPEAKER_00: inevitable conflict that you enter into.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: And then if you just eject from all of that,
27:04
SPEAKER_00: then it's like, oh, there's no muscle building any of that.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: I never would have thought of,
27:12
SPEAKER_00: I guess it makes sense that like that would be one of the biggest databases.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they said they have over 300 or 3 million or whatever.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, some crazy number.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: They're the ones who have the most data.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: And so, because I think when you die, you have to fill out some form or something they said.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: And it talks about your lifestyle or the person's lifestyle, right?
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: The person that dies has to fill that out.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, there you go.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so,
27:45
SPEAKER_02: and I had,
27:45
SPEAKER_02: you know,
27:46
SPEAKER_02: awesome bosses when I was there and some really great mentors
27:51
SPEAKER_02: and even like my therapists that I supervise that were licensed,
27:55
SPEAKER_02: they were such great colleagues to me.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: I saw them more as equal and,
28:00
SPEAKER_02: you know,
28:01
SPEAKER_02: some of them,
28:01
SPEAKER_02: you know,
28:02
SPEAKER_02: one was a pastor and so I had this other life and He really supported me and shared
28:08
SPEAKER_02: a lot and mentored me.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Even though it was in this weird relationship with me being his boss, we never saw it that way.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: And still good friends to this day.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, God really put some amazing people in my life and my sister doing this.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: And my brother has a for-profit business.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: So you've had a lot of the entrepreneurial examples.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like The work that you were doing at Concordia was almost like
28:37
SPEAKER_00: an entrepreneurial venture in its own right because you were building this program
28:41
SPEAKER_00: and doing this thing.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: But then you also had the institution's backing and resource behind you as you were building it.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: But because it's such a unique thing,
28:52
SPEAKER_02: you really had to be like a therapist or work in the world to be able to develop
28:57
SPEAKER_02: that piece, a psychological department, psychological counseling services.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: And so...
29:03
SPEAKER_02: My boss was very supportive.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: I'd run things by him, but he'd sort of look at me as like, well, you're the expert in this.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: And so it would be a lot of brainstorming with my therapist.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: So you had that ownership and kind of autonomy to like, Go with it and experiment.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: And then kind of the collective handholding of the other schools
29:23
SPEAKER_00: that you were working around and collaborating with on some level.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Because there's not really like competition in that field.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's just like, the more helped, the
29:32
SPEAKER_02: better.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Which is also cool and unique to think about.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: But that also lended itself to the entrepreneurial mindset of like, let's figure it out.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: There's this problem that we have to solve.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: And Um, we're, we're growing it.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: We're the people growing it.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not there yet, the solution or whatever.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think,
29:52
SPEAKER_02: you know,
29:53
SPEAKER_02: when I looked back to,
29:54
SPEAKER_02: I was like, huh,
29:55
SPEAKER_02: I wonder if God was planning this earlier because probably one or two,
29:59
SPEAKER_02: probably two years prior to me leaving and starting seeds,
30:03
SPEAKER_02: I was still at the university.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: We had done this SISM training, um,
30:08
SPEAKER_02: which is like critical incident,
30:10
SPEAKER_02: um, So if there's a crisis or a trauma that happens, you deploy this team.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: And it's for laid people,
30:17
SPEAKER_02: anybody,
30:17
SPEAKER_02: but this pastor really wanted people in the Lutheran world to sort of be trained up
30:22
SPEAKER_02: on it.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: And I said, well,
30:23
SPEAKER_02: I want my whole staff to be there because that way if something happens at one of
30:27
SPEAKER_02: the schools, I have 10 therapists here at the university that we can deploy.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: Whoever's on call can go and help.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: And so we actually went to,
30:36
SPEAKER_02: after we all got trained on it,
30:38
SPEAKER_02: We went to a couple of the schools and said, hey,
30:41
SPEAKER_02: and we went to the district office that oversees these Lutheran schools to say,
30:45
SPEAKER_02: hey, if there's ever a crisis, just let us know.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: We'll come out there for church or school.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: But we actually met with a couple of schools to say, hey, this is it.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, huh, was God already sort of planting these seeds, you know?
30:59
SPEAKER_02: So that was part of the...
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, that was my next question is like, where did the name Seeds come from?
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you've alluded to it a lot.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious, like, explicitly, where did that name come from?
31:12
SPEAKER_00: And then like, what are the offerings within Seeds?
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Because it sounds like you're doing,
31:17
SPEAKER_00: like, mostly stuff with schools, but then there's a private practice arm too.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: And so I'd love to understand the details of that.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: So when I started SEEDS, well,
31:29
SPEAKER_02: we didn't know the name of it,
31:31
SPEAKER_02: but when I started this vision,
31:34
SPEAKER_02: one of my clinical supervisors that I had at Concordia,
31:37
SPEAKER_02: she was very interested in supporting it and being part of SEEDS
31:42
SPEAKER_02: and coming alongside me.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: And so she actually helped come up with the name.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: I had a few of them,
31:48
SPEAKER_02: but she sort of came up with the name SEEDS,
31:51
SPEAKER_02: which we were school-based,
31:53
SPEAKER_02: and so it was The support, education, engagement, development services.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: So an acronym for it.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize it was an acronym.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: So that's what it is, is, you know, because we're supporting students, right?
32:06
SPEAKER_02: And the schools and families and education.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: We're in the educational system and we're doing classroom publications, all that.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: And engagement and, you know, in that part and parent education nights and development.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: We were helping develop and, you know, support.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: So services.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, so that's where Seeds came and we thought of the little mustard seed, right?
32:26
SPEAKER_02: And we also,
32:27
SPEAKER_02: I was looking for when I would like brainstorm ideas,
32:30
SPEAKER_02: I said, I want something that is not have a stigma related.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: So when kids say it, they're not like, And so I'm like, okay, we really like this.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: And at first I was like, I don't know.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: And when my husband said, he goes, well, do you think people liked Apple when they heard Apple?
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Like,
33:00
SPEAKER_02: And now that's an everyday, you know, term.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: The household term.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he's like, but do you think, you know, he goes, no, people will grow on it, you know.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: I see what he did
33:08
SPEAKER_02: there.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Was he a dad at this time?
33:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, he was a dad, yeah.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, and he likes to tell jokes.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: I did notice that.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes, so.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's where it sort of came.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, the scripture of the mustard seed and the smallest things growing.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: And it really, like, it's just amazing.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like every week I think about that as we're doing our services,
33:32
SPEAKER_02: that it comes out like, oh, we're growing.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: Whether it's internally,
33:37
SPEAKER_02: externally,
33:38
SPEAKER_02: and developing these kids and developing families and developing
33:41
SPEAKER_02: where seed is going.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: It's just a constant...
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Growing.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
33:46
SPEAKER_00: aptly named.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, oh, that was really, I love it.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: So within the world of growing, there's the partnerships with the schools.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: That's not just care for the students of the school.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: It's also like parent education within that.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: So that's like parent nights of education around like what you guys are doing
34:08
SPEAKER_00: and how to have those conversations at home with your kids, like that kind of stuff.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
34:12
SPEAKER_02: so I really wanted to make it a holistic approach and try to hit as much as we could
34:18
SPEAKER_02: within reason, of course, that we could do for these schools.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: And so the pieces that were important is like these teachers, they need support.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: They need education.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: They're hungry for it.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: They want that, right?
34:33
SPEAKER_02: And they're getting burned out.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: And they're having to focus so much time on...
34:40
SPEAKER_02: On these mental health issues than they've ever had to before.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: And it takes away from the educational piece.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: And so I wanted to make sure when we supported those teachers.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: So doing teachers training, having therapists available for consultation.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm just like, hey,
34:58
SPEAKER_02: I have this kid,
34:59
SPEAKER_02: Johnny, and he's doing this and just getting support right then and there.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: Or if there's a crisis situation, we can help support them too.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: And it's not that my therapist or me can wave a magic wand and it's all better.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: But I know when I worked at the university that the professors,
35:17
SPEAKER_02: once they referred a student and they were sure that they got connected,
35:22
SPEAKER_02: they could sort of take that off their plate.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it's a burden that comes off.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, okay, they're in their hands.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: And again,
35:29
SPEAKER_02: maybe there wouldn't be a change right away because therapy takes some time,
35:33
SPEAKER_02: but they knew like, okay, somebody else is handling it.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: I need to let that go and I can focus back onto what I'm doing.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: So that was part of it is,
35:40
SPEAKER_02: you know,
35:41
SPEAKER_02: my time at the university sort of knowing that and working with professors a lot
35:45
SPEAKER_02: on those things.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: But, and then the next thing is because we're working with kids is the parents
35:51
SPEAKER_02: and What are parents role modeling?
35:53
SPEAKER_02: What are we teaching?
35:53
SPEAKER_02: What's in the home?
35:55
SPEAKER_02: What can we control new parents that are learning new skills, right?
36:00
SPEAKER_02: So we just launched a moms group because we really,
36:03
SPEAKER_02: for young moms, zero to five years old, right?
36:05
SPEAKER_02: Because we feel like that's an important time.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: And my therapists are really passionate about that.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: A couple of my therapists who wanted to lead that.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: Who are moms themselves.
36:14
SPEAKER_02: And so we thought, great, this is another area that we're going to reach out to.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: But parents, right?
36:20
SPEAKER_02: And on how, because sometimes it's parents more than the kids.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, and focusing on the parents, like that's obviously a trickle down effect on the kids.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: And they want to, again, the parents want it too.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: They want support.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: They want help, you know.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: And so we do some parent education nights.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: We offer one in the fall and one in the spring to each school.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes they're in person and sometimes they're virtual.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: This year we're doing an all virtual one on September 29th.
36:51
SPEAKER_02: This makes it easier for parents.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because we've noticed you miss a little piece when it's virtual.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
36:59
SPEAKER_02: There's all these other benefits of you can do it at home
37:03
SPEAKER_02: as you're putting your kids to get to bed.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can do that.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: So it's less time because you're not driving.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: So we get it.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: So we have that piece.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: And then we have our classroom presentation.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: So we go in and we'll do like for our eighth graders,
37:16
SPEAKER_02: we'll do a two session time where we'll go in for 45 minutes and do it
37:22
SPEAKER_02: on transitioning to high school.
37:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: And so we have...
37:27
SPEAKER_02: A curriculum developed for each grade level, K through 8 is what we have right now.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: And so we'll go into those classrooms from K through 8 for maybe two,
37:36
SPEAKER_02: three times a year and teach them on one of these topics.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: Zones of regulation for the little ones, those kind of things.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Then we have small therapy groups, processing groups.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: So you have your classroom presentation for the kids.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: So it's just more of a broad spectrum that we could reach everybody.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: And then we have like the next level, which is a small therapy support groups.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: And those are anywhere from six to eight kiddos and,
38:04
SPEAKER_02: you know,
38:04
SPEAKER_02: maybe co-leading with two therapists and they're doing more hands-on stuff.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: And then you have sort of the heart of what SEATS does, which is that individual therapy.
38:13
SPEAKER_02: And so that's where, one, there's so many barriers to finding individual therapy out there.
38:20
SPEAKER_02: It's expensive.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: So a lot of families can afford it, especially the families at these Christian private schools.
38:27
SPEAKER_02: Most of them are middle income,
38:28
SPEAKER_02: and so they're just making it to pay the tuition to go to that school,
38:32
SPEAKER_02: but they don't have $150 a week, so $600 a month to go to therapy.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: And so that's a thing that doesn't happen,
38:41
SPEAKER_02: but then it snowballs into behaviorals,
38:43
SPEAKER_02: and it affects their academics,
38:45
SPEAKER_02: it affects their social life,
38:47
SPEAKER_02: it affects their family life,
38:49
SPEAKER_02: and So it's really unfortunate, but that's a thing that sort of gets pushed back.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: And so you have that.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: And then if you want a Christian therapist, that's really challenging too.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Probably more expensive.
39:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's more expensive.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: Or they have a wait list.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: So there's huge wait lists for these therapists.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: And three months for a kiddo, that's like a long time, you know.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: That's a long time for me.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: And six months.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: And one had a year.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: A year.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: Is it a year waitlist?
39:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: How do you have a year waitlist?
39:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, and probably most of the issues that you're trying to address are like,
39:23
SPEAKER_00: oh, you should have started like a year ago, not a year from now.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: Man, that's hard.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: And then transportation, right?
39:32
SPEAKER_02: And getting, like,
39:33
SPEAKER_02: I know I have a very active life after four or five o'clock when my kids get home.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: Going to all their different things and balancing between, you know, multiple kids.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: And so that's really challenging.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: So the other piece that was big for Seeds is to be at the schools and make it accessible.
39:51
SPEAKER_02: And I know,
39:52
SPEAKER_02: you know,
39:53
SPEAKER_02: principals,
39:53
SPEAKER_02: administrative parents sometimes like,
39:55
SPEAKER_02: oh, you're going to pull my kid from a class to go to therapy.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: But the whole thing is, is.
40:01
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is unfortunate that that's what has to happen now.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: But because their mind is so focused on what may be a lot of anxiety,
40:10
SPEAKER_02: they're not really paying attention to that history lesson right now.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: And they're not taking anything in.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: So maybe if they can get help and support to work out whatever they're struggling
40:19
SPEAKER_02: with, then they're going to be a lot more successful academically.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: And you have spaces at each school to provide that service in that environment so
40:29
SPEAKER_00: that it isn't like extra for the parents
40:31
SPEAKER_00: to be like shuttling them around everywhere.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: But then there's also the there's like individual therapy,
40:38
SPEAKER_00: which is like one of the main offerings.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: But then that happens outside of schools, too, with like.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: That's my understanding with the private practice.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
40:47
SPEAKER_02: So then we have private practice and that we opened up to all ages.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: So five years or older.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: So we have, you know, children, adults, teens.
40:57
SPEAKER_02: We have, we have a 70 some year old right now in therapy, couples, all that kind of stuff.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: So we have that.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: And so we actually, all my school sites are churches and schools.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: And they all have been open to providing some space for us.
41:14
SPEAKER_02: And most of it is after school,
41:15
SPEAKER_02: but we actually do have a handful that will allow us to use it during school hours.
41:22
SPEAKER_02: And then I have an office in Laguna Hills that has space that we use at any time.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
41:30
SPEAKER_02: that became a thing because my Currently,
41:33
SPEAKER_02: all of our schools were contracted with our K through 8.
41:36
SPEAKER_02: So when they left 8th grade to go to their high school, SEEDS was no longer there.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: So they couldn't see us because we were only contracted with the schools.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: And so trying to find resources for them was very difficult.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: That holistic model,
41:51
SPEAKER_00: that vision that you have to be holistic changes when it's like,
41:54
SPEAKER_00: well, it can only be in the schools.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: So this gives that opportunity.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: And then we would get phone calls.
42:00
SPEAKER_02: I would get a number of phone calls from families that were at other schools
42:03
SPEAKER_02: that would hear about seeds.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, can you see my son or daughter?
42:06
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh,
42:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry,
42:07
SPEAKER_02: we can't because we're only in these contracted schools or the parents needed
42:12
SPEAKER_02: to be seen.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: So it allowed us to open it up for multiple reasons.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: And so again, it was God's plan and vision because I am like, no, we're just going to do this.
42:23
SPEAKER_02: And God said, no.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: It's funny how that works when you're open handed enough to be like,
42:27
SPEAKER_00: what do you want me to do with this?
42:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: Was there like a family or a client,
42:34
SPEAKER_00: like a student client that like had you click into this idea of like,
42:40
SPEAKER_00: oh, this is something that's like super needed and really valuable.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you have to anonymize that, I'm sure.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: But like.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Are there are there details around that that you can share that like,
42:50
SPEAKER_00: oh, yeah, this like really made me feel like we were on the right track?
42:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it actually happened really quickly.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: So when we started in August 2021,
43:02
SPEAKER_02: I at the school we were piloting seeds at, we were just at one school at that time.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: We somebody was referred to me from the school office and we weren't even in the school.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: School hadn't even started.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, we're trying to find services for my daughter.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: We've called over 15 therapists.
43:21
SPEAKER_02: We can't find anybody, blah, blah, blah, you know?
43:23
SPEAKER_02: And so that was one thing.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: They're like, this is amazing.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: You're even calling me back, like,
43:29
SPEAKER_02: and that there's a service because,
43:30
SPEAKER_02: you know,
43:31
SPEAKER_02: and I wanted somebody Christian,
43:32
SPEAKER_02: but I was desperate that I would take anybody at this point, you know?
43:36
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I got like multiple stories within the first three months of that.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: And then we had...
43:44
SPEAKER_02: I had a couple students within the first three months at a K-8 school
43:48
SPEAKER_02: that really struggled with suicide.
43:51
SPEAKER_02: And the one had been struggling for a long time and said, I read your information.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: The student did and reached out and said, I need help.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: Can you please help?
44:01
SPEAKER_02: Reach out to me directly.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: And that was the response.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: Please help me.
44:05
SPEAKER_02: I need help.
44:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:06
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, OK, this is why we're supposed to be here.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:09
SPEAKER_02: And it was it was instant.
44:11
SPEAKER_02: It was like within the first like month that I got that for that student
44:15
SPEAKER_02: and she really needed it.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: And then we find out, you know, another student really struggling with some stuff.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, okay.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: And then the next year, I got five new schools that just approached me without marketing.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: So it was a big jump.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: The next year.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, okay.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: And I know my staff thought I was crazy for bringing it.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: I said, no, God will provide.
44:38
SPEAKER_02: And he has.
44:39
SPEAKER_02: And it's been busy.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: But yes, we went from a big jump from one to five.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: You're like perfectly saving into all my questions.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious on that note,
44:51
SPEAKER_00: like founding something like this, how has it like taught you about your own limits?
44:57
SPEAKER_02: You know,
44:58
SPEAKER_02: I think actually studying for my licensing exam,
45:03
SPEAKER_02: I learned a lot and even going to grad school.
45:06
SPEAKER_02: So grad school,
45:07
SPEAKER_02: they're like,
45:07
SPEAKER_02: you go full time and the MSU program at the time,
45:12
SPEAKER_02: I know they've watered it down, I feel like a little bit, but at the time.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: This generation is soft.
45:18
SPEAKER_02: You had to go two full years and you could not work.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: You had your summers off,
45:23
SPEAKER_02: so you had that time off,
45:24
SPEAKER_02: but you had to go and you were at school Monday,
45:29
SPEAKER_02: I think I was there Monday, Wednesday, two full days, eight hours, both days.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: You were in classes the whole time.
45:34
SPEAKER_02: And then you had two days you had to do your internship to two and a half, right?
45:39
SPEAKER_00: Which is like clinicals, right?
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: I was at Concordia for one of the days and the year before I was at the South County.
45:46
SPEAKER_02: So you're there doing that.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: And then you had all this homework.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: And you really, they told you from day one, like, you aren't going to have a life and it's okay.
45:55
SPEAKER_02: It'll be two years and this...
45:57
SPEAKER_02: And you're going to have to let this go.
45:58
SPEAKER_02: And same thing when I studied for my exam,
46:01
SPEAKER_02: I realized I have to just focus on this and let everything go,
46:06
SPEAKER_02: you know, and prioritize.
46:08
SPEAKER_02: So I really learned a lot about,
46:10
SPEAKER_02: is this a priority to have my dishes done right now or to study, right?
46:16
SPEAKER_02: And yes, it's unfortunate and I hate having like a dirty house.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't make me feel, I feel so happy when my house is clean and everything is organized.
46:25
SPEAKER_02: But is it going to be okay if I don't?
46:28
SPEAKER_02: And so I think like now,
46:30
SPEAKER_02: I always think even as I do my task proceeds, what needs to be done now?
46:35
SPEAKER_02: When does it need to be done?
46:37
SPEAKER_02: What's okay to let go of?
46:39
SPEAKER_02: And it's not going to be the end of the world.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: So sort of I rate the things,
46:43
SPEAKER_02: I prioritize them from whether the time date or like What it's going to bring to us
46:51
SPEAKER_02: if we do this.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: And so I try to do that and still have that balance.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's always a dance, right?
46:58
SPEAKER_00: The tension of finding how do I move things forward, but then also not live in a pigsty.
47:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious around as a leader and speaking to other visionaries and founders, Um,
47:19
SPEAKER_00: who like see a gap clearly and a vision for something that they want to do,
47:24
SPEAKER_00: but also that mentality of like prioritizing properly,
47:28
SPEAKER_00: what would be like your encouragement to them for like pursuing that idea or going
47:33
SPEAKER_00: and doing that thing?
47:35
SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of prayer, um, prayer and patience.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you see it later on,
47:42
SPEAKER_02: like, you know, that God did have the plan, but you don't see it right away.
47:47
SPEAKER_02: But, um, I mean,
47:49
SPEAKER_02: I think,
47:51
SPEAKER_02: you know,
47:52
SPEAKER_02: there's great ideas out there that people have and whether it's developing a product
47:58
SPEAKER_02: or whatever, and they're amazing things, but they just don't take off, you know?
48:03
SPEAKER_02: And so you just have to keep working hard.
48:06
SPEAKER_02: I think another big piece that I forgot in my life is that my husband and I owned,
48:12
SPEAKER_02: were franchise owners of GNC stores for nine years.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: And we learned a ton.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: Of being in the business world because it was the two of us doing a lot of
48:21
SPEAKER_02: the financial pieces and overseeing everything.
48:25
SPEAKER_02: And he did a lot of it, but I was a big part of it too.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: You guys are entrepreneurs.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: So, so we, and we had an amazing mentor through there.
48:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
48:37
SPEAKER_02: And she, she had been with GNC.
48:39
SPEAKER_02: She actually came back and worked for us,
48:42
SPEAKER_02: but she really led the ship, you know, and told us, Hey, do this, do that.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: And Made us stop and think.
48:47
SPEAKER_02: And learning to take advice.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: I think that's a big thing.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: And listening to these people that have been successful,
48:53
SPEAKER_02: who are wiser than us, who've lived that.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of people that are very successful
49:00
SPEAKER_02: or have been very successful business people, you know.
49:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think getting advice from them and just sitting and listening,
49:07
SPEAKER_02: like there's always something I get from a conversation with any of them.
49:11
SPEAKER_02: And God's put these amazing people,
49:13
SPEAKER_02: whether they were connections I had at Concordia or through our GNC business,
49:18
SPEAKER_02: our church, our personal life, school, you know, things like that.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: It's, I think, listening to these people and saying, how did you do that?
49:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, how'd you get there?
49:27
SPEAKER_02: And Some of it, you're going to be like, no, that doesn't match with me.
49:31
SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
49:32
SPEAKER_02: You take what you know.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: How do you discern?
49:37
SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like that's a season that I'm in is like getting a lot of data
49:41
SPEAKER_00: from people,
49:41
SPEAKER_00: a lot of advice,
49:42
SPEAKER_00: which is, I think, to your point, extremely helpful for the most part.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: But then like, is there a tension in getting too much advice?
49:50
SPEAKER_00: And then how do you specifically discern kind of like,
49:55
SPEAKER_00: This is advice I'm going to take,
49:56
SPEAKER_00: and this is advice that I'm grateful that you're giving,
49:59
SPEAKER_00: but I'm going to leave it on the table.
50:02
SPEAKER_02: I think, well,
50:03
SPEAKER_02: some of the time then I sort of step back and like, okay,
50:06
SPEAKER_02: I can't have any more conversations with people or get involved,
50:09
SPEAKER_02: even though these are great organizations or a great connection I should have.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: I need to take a step back because I can't even follow up with the ones that I just got.
50:16
SPEAKER_00: There's just so much data that you have now.
50:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
50:18
SPEAKER_02: unless something comes naturally and God opens some door somehow that he's like,
50:22
SPEAKER_02: nope, this is where we're going now.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: But also, it's got to feel right.
50:29
SPEAKER_02: And so even as a therapist, what is your instinct telling you?
50:34
SPEAKER_02: So always going with your instinct.
50:37
SPEAKER_02: And that's our big thing even in counseling.
50:40
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell my therapist,
50:42
SPEAKER_02: hey, when we're looking at suicide, for instance, what is your instinct saying?
50:48
SPEAKER_02: Even though your client is telling you this...
50:50
SPEAKER_02: Do you believe them?
50:51
SPEAKER_02: Is there something more?
50:53
SPEAKER_02: Or is it why are you getting that feeling?
50:54
SPEAKER_02: If you're getting that feeling, you need to look at it.
50:57
SPEAKER_02: And the same with that is like, well, I get that.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, that probably would get me more money, but it doesn't feel right to me, right?
51:04
SPEAKER_02: To do it that way.
51:05
SPEAKER_02: Like something just doesn't feel right.
51:08
SPEAKER_02: And so, and it might feel right later on.
51:10
SPEAKER_02: I might like later on be like, either I'm in a different season of my life or whatever.
51:14
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Okay, I can see how that works.
51:17
SPEAKER_02: Or going that direction, maybe just massaging it a little bit this way will be more.
51:23
SPEAKER_02: But it's just really like what feels right.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: Is that attributed,
51:29
SPEAKER_00: is the feeling attributed to some variable of your experience,
51:36
SPEAKER_00: like living in the Holy Spirit, like prayer?
51:39
SPEAKER_00: Is it all of those things?
51:41
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, for sure.
51:42
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: Again, trusting God through this all.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: And I, you know,
51:47
SPEAKER_02: as I get older,
51:48
SPEAKER_02: and I'm getting older,
51:49
SPEAKER_02: I do see like,
51:51
SPEAKER_02: huh, I remember thinking that way at 30 years old or 35, you know, or 40.
51:57
SPEAKER_02: And like, I can sort of see now at 50 what I see people, you know.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, there is something to be said about time.
52:06
SPEAKER_02: But you also just, I don't know, just look back and...
52:11
SPEAKER_02: We get through it and we're not bored.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: The old cliche of like, it's about the journey, not the destination.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: But I think most people actually want it to be about the destination,
52:35
SPEAKER_00: but they have a hard time being in the middle of it.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, myself included.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: Where it's like, man, I just want to arrive at the big paycheck or having a house or whatever.
52:45
SPEAKER_02: And it's scary too, right?
52:46
SPEAKER_02: Because some of it's safety and security, right?
52:49
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
52:50
SPEAKER_02: That, of course, rubs up everything.
52:52
SPEAKER_02: So when I didn't know if Seed's going to do this, it's been a miracle.
52:59
SPEAKER_02: Again,
52:59
SPEAKER_02: the people that God put to get this going financially has been truly a blessing and
53:06
SPEAKER_02: a God thing.
53:09
SPEAKER_02: It just it wouldn't have happened without that.
53:11
SPEAKER_02: We and these schools wouldn't be getting the support and these students.
53:16
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, again, going back to that first student that said, please help me.
53:21
SPEAKER_02: I need help.
53:22
SPEAKER_02: That was her email to me, you know, and I was like,
53:26
SPEAKER_00: it's really special.
53:27
SPEAKER_00: You got to print that out and frame that.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: So but yeah, it's I'm like, OK, this is why we're here.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: It was a clear thing.
53:35
SPEAKER_02: And And my clinical supervisor is still with me, you know, who started Seeds.
53:40
SPEAKER_02: And she's phenomenal.
53:41
SPEAKER_02: And just even the therapists and the people that work with Seeds are just a God's gift.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: Like I always say...
53:49
SPEAKER_02: How can I keep getting these amazing people?
53:54
SPEAKER_02: Humans and therapists and clinicians.
53:58
SPEAKER_02: It's been a great thing because I know there's some wacky people that are in my field.
54:06
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
54:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm very blessed on who God gives us.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, giving credit where credit's due is probably some version of why you keep having
54:16
SPEAKER_02: the success that you're having.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: As you kind of reflect and think back on the start of it,
54:23
SPEAKER_00: if you were to restart Seeds now, would
54:27
SPEAKER_01: you do anything differently?
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Or would you kind of accept what it, I mean, obviously you're doing that already, but...
54:35
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything you would have done differently or told yourself differently
54:39
SPEAKER_00: as you like founded and started the journey that you're on now?
54:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think I changed ways throughout,
54:49
SPEAKER_02: but I can't think of what I would really change, to be honest.
54:53
SPEAKER_02: I know within those first three months when I met with somebody,
54:57
SPEAKER_02: I was doing the direct services too.
54:58
SPEAKER_02: And he said it.
55:01
SPEAKER_02: You need to knock off doing that because if you're going to really make this
55:05
SPEAKER_02: a true nonprofit and get this program going and this business going,
55:11
SPEAKER_02: you can't do that.
55:12
SPEAKER_02: You have to do these other pieces and you have to allow others to do that work
55:18
SPEAKER_02: and you have to be okay with that.
55:20
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, again,
55:22
SPEAKER_02: having to sort of step away of doing some clinical work,
55:26
SPEAKER_02: um, And now, you know, I don't do it as much, but I love what I do.
55:29
SPEAKER_02: And I'm still, like,
55:31
SPEAKER_02: involved when there is clinical high-risk cases or that sort of more of my specialty
55:38
SPEAKER_02: that I am involved.
55:38
SPEAKER_02: But it sometimes makes me sad when I go and sit through trainings because we do
55:41
SPEAKER_02: a lot of trainings with the therapist.
55:43
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, that looks
55:44
SPEAKER_01: so fun.
55:44
SPEAKER_02: That would be so fun to do with a client or something, you know.
55:50
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, am I going to lose those skills?
55:54
SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, you know what?
55:55
SPEAKER_02: God will.
55:56
SPEAKER_02: If I'm supposed to go back and do more direct services eventually one day
56:01
SPEAKER_02: that I could go back and go back.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: It's part of the blessing and the curse of being a founder visionary type
56:07
SPEAKER_00: where like you're casting Strategy,
56:10
SPEAKER_00: and you were looking at it from a bird's eye view,
56:12
SPEAKER_00: but then how do you,
56:13
SPEAKER_00: it's cool to hear that you're also in the trainings and doing those,
56:17
SPEAKER_00: probably because you have to keep up with them,
56:19
SPEAKER_00: but also because you're excited about it,
56:21
SPEAKER_00: and you're interested in new tools that are being created to help give care
56:26
SPEAKER_00: and stuff like that,
56:26
SPEAKER_00: where it's like you could hypothetically just jump back in if you needed to,
56:32
SPEAKER_00: whereas I feel like a lot of People that jump into management and vision
56:37
SPEAKER_00: and founding type roles oftentimes will lose some of those muscles
56:41
SPEAKER_00: because they atrophy because they're not actively doing a lot of that work.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's interesting.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: As we finish these conversations, I always ask the...
56:54
SPEAKER_00: Previous guest for like a question that they have for the current guest.
56:59
SPEAKER_00: And so the previous guest's question to you is what is something
57:07
SPEAKER_00: that is making you less human and how can you rehumanize yourself in that?
57:13
SPEAKER_02: Less human.
57:18
SPEAKER_02: The budget.
57:21
SPEAKER_00: Just in life or the budget for the organization?
57:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, both.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: The funding is tough.
57:29
SPEAKER_02: And having to sort of go outside my comfort zone for some of that piece,
57:35
SPEAKER_02: whether it's negotiating contracts or that,
57:40
SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's not me, it's not what I like to do.
57:44
SPEAKER_00: It's not what you got into this line of work to do.
57:47
SPEAKER_02: Even when you're negotiating like, Scholarships for families.
57:52
SPEAKER_02: And you see these, I just want to give everybody.
57:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, everybody zero.
57:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
57:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want you not to get help if you need it.
57:59
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
58:00
SPEAKER_02: So, you know,
58:01
SPEAKER_02: those are,
58:01
SPEAKER_02: but then I'm hearing from my board, like,
58:05
SPEAKER_02: Rebecca,
58:05
SPEAKER_02: this is a business and you can't pay your employees and they're going to leave you.
58:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
58:09
SPEAKER_02: You provide the service if you do not get money.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
58:13
SPEAKER_02: And so you can't just give away the services.
58:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:16
SPEAKER_02: And so, again,
58:17
SPEAKER_02: I've had to, like,
58:18
SPEAKER_02: sort of come to that piece,
58:20
SPEAKER_02: I guess, where I'm like, it's not really what I,
58:23
SPEAKER_00: like, me or human.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: It's one of the evolutions of being a founder.
58:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:28
SPEAKER_00: It's like you have to sacrifice kind of the things that you enjoy doing for
58:35
SPEAKER_00: the obligation and the responsibility you've taken on of,
58:37
SPEAKER_00: like, building and growing something and seeing a vision through.
58:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:43
SPEAKER_00: That's not the answer that I was expecting.
58:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: But I appreciate the honesty of it.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a question for our next guest?
58:51
SPEAKER_02: What's the next guest?
58:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
58:54
SPEAKER_00: Part
58:56
SPEAKER_00: of the joy of it is that you don't know either.
58:58
SPEAKER_00: It
59:00
SPEAKER_00: could be about anything.
59:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:08
SPEAKER_02: Maybe like
59:14
SPEAKER_02: The person could be any person.
59:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking something like work-life balance.
59:24
SPEAKER_02: How do they see work-life balance?
59:27
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like it's very important.
59:31
SPEAKER_02: Although I feel like some generations maybe think it's more.
59:39
SPEAKER_02: Life balance needs to be there than work.
59:42
SPEAKER_02: And maybe not even, you know, like, well, I'm supposed to be here for 40 hours a week.
59:47
SPEAKER_02: But part of that 40 hours is also doing some of my personal stuff.
59:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, like you hear that a lot from, not from mine.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: This feels like a very specific question you're trying to answer.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: Not from my staff, but I've heard that.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_02: Like I'll see people that, you know, struggle with that.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_02: Just friends,
1:00:07
SPEAKER_02: when I talk to like these business people or things like that,
1:00:09
SPEAKER_02: you know, and Um, maybe they're venting about their employees or things like that.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_02: And it, it's this thing where, well,
1:00:17
SPEAKER_02: I should have time to be able to sit there and text my friends during my work hours.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_02: I have that in my contract.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I remember, um,
1:00:27
SPEAKER_02: one of the dear friends of mine was in charge of the career service center there and
1:00:31
SPEAKER_02: at Concordia and she, she was awesome.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_02: She actually was on my board for a little bit when I started seeds and, um, Anyhow,
1:00:40
SPEAKER_02: I remember we would sit through interviews sometimes of people
1:00:43
SPEAKER_02: for different positions in the university and we would be on the panel.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_02: And that's one of them is that they expected to have time.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_02: These people that wanted to kind of work for the university wanted to have time to do this.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_02: And I understand it is important to have this work-life balance, right?
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: Because you're going to get burned out.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_02: And that's important, your family.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_02: And I really feel like family is really important.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_02: And how can we integrate that not only within the seeds,
1:01:12
SPEAKER_02: but also like,
1:01:13
SPEAKER_02: you know, have that time for them to be at home and be cut off from seeds.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_02: Because that's important to you.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_02: But when you're at seeds, you know, you want to work.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_02: But it is interesting, like how, what did they see?
1:01:26
SPEAKER_02: Work-life balance, I guess.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_02: But also like the concept.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: Right?
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: So are you asking like, as a leader of people, how do you define work-life balance?
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: And how do you see it showing up in your own day-to-day?
1:01:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_00: That's the nice thing about asking that question is I don't have to answer it the next person.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited whenever that next person answers it, I'll shoot it over.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_02: But I do think that's really important to support your employees as much as possible
1:02:07
SPEAKER_02: because they're doing good hard work for you, hopefully.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_02: So how can you do these in small little ways that make a big difference?
1:02:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a part of being seen and heard and known.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: And that's how you grow and build retention and support.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think one of the,
1:02:26
SPEAKER_00: this is a whole other podcast,
1:02:29
SPEAKER_00: but one of the other big questions I always think about is like,
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: how do you create a culture that like people want to stay at forever?
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think like,
1:02:37
SPEAKER_00: I was just talking about this with someone that I met
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: for coffee this morning is like,
1:02:42
SPEAKER_00: The norm in my generation is like I keep a job for like a couple years and
1:02:47
SPEAKER_00: then I get like an offer somewhere else or I go look for another offer for like
1:02:52
SPEAKER_00: a 20% bump in my pay and then I just like get poached or I leave.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_00: And I think like the person I was talking to,
1:03:01
SPEAKER_00: she works at an architectural firm and she's been there 27 years.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think about my own, like my own dad, he's worked at his job for 35 years.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_00: And like what you've been doing, you've been doing for 20 plus years.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: Like there is so much Like depth and beauty to having that amount of expertise
1:03:28
SPEAKER_00: in something where like the longest job that I've had is like five years.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's like really long for some of my age.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_00: And so I think like,
1:03:39
SPEAKER_00: At least I feel this pull in this season to be like I want to go deep in something
1:03:44
SPEAKER_00: and I want to like be really good at it.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like part of it is there's seasons of that work life balance
1:03:51
SPEAKER_00: that like maybe one takes over for a season where it's like I'm getting my masters
1:03:56
SPEAKER_00: and it's going to be two years of basically like doing nothing except working.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's the expectation.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_00: And my friends and family understand that or whatever.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_00: But at the end,
1:04:05
SPEAKER_00: I have so much knowledge that I can apply and Hypothetically,
1:04:09
SPEAKER_00: I'll get paid for that because the market rate or whatever accounts
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: for something like that.
1:04:14
SPEAKER_00: But that's such a big question that I'm always curious about is like,
1:04:19
SPEAKER_00: is there ever a world now that like people my age stay somewhere for?
1:04:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_00: And then like the owner,
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: operator,
1:04:27
SPEAKER_00: visionary,
1:04:27
SPEAKER_00: founder people like you,
1:04:28
SPEAKER_00: like, How do you create culture that makes people excited about that?
1:04:35
SPEAKER_00: And what is the professional development that happens?
1:04:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a very different conversation,
1:04:40
SPEAKER_00: but I'm excited to see how the next person answers that question.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
1:04:44
SPEAKER_00: thank you so much for sharing your story and what Seeds is doing and kind of
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: the latest iteration of your entrepreneurship.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm super grateful to know you and get to work alongside you in figuring out how
1:04:57
SPEAKER_00: to grow this organization and do stuff.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_00: I think that's part of the beauty of having these conversations
1:05:02
SPEAKER_00: for me is I inevitably get invested in whoever I'm talking to,
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: but I'm excited that I'm invested with you in a very different way with getting
1:05:12
SPEAKER_00: to work on the team and be a part of that culture
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: that hopefully is building retention and all that fun stuff too.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm very excited and appreciate the support.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_02: So, yes.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a fun time.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_02: And even with you,
1:05:29
SPEAKER_02: I have to say,
1:05:30
SPEAKER_02: when I got a phone call from somebody who knew you,
1:05:36
SPEAKER_02: said, hey, I don't have a position for him, but I just thought of you.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: And this was somebody that I was going to for advice.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_02: And it just sat with me and sat with me for like a few weeks,
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: a month, and I'm like, Why does He keep coming up?
1:05:52
SPEAKER_02: There's got to be a reason.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_02: I just need to meet with Him because you just keep coming to my mind and there's got
1:05:58
SPEAKER_02: to be some reason why this connection.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_02: And so even just meeting you for coffee, right?
1:06:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, let's see where this goes.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's going to go anywhere, but let's see.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_02: And it's sort of listening.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_02: Like, is this God opening a door,
1:06:10
SPEAKER_02: trying to do something that Because why does this feel like this is
1:06:14
SPEAKER_02: the direction he's pushing me in, you know?
1:06:15
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm grateful.