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BONUS: US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick Talks AI, US-Canada Trade · Balance of Power

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts, radio, news.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: We are on the ground here in Chapel Hill, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm surrounded by a who's who of AI.
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  Speaker 3: It's the Mount Rushmore of artificial intelligence as you walk
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  Speaker 3: around the Carolina in here. Think Jensen, Altman, Karp, and
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  Speaker 3: we'll add another name, Lutnick. The Commerce Secretary is hosting
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  Speaker 3: this confab. in North Carolina and joins us right now
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  Speaker 3: live on Bloomberg TV and radio.
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  Speaker 1: Mr.
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  Speaker 2: Secretary, it's great to see you here at the G20.
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  Speaker 1: It's great to be here with you.
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  Speaker 3: So we were just talking about the sales pitch and
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  Speaker 3: some of the comments that the Treasury Secretary made last night.
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  Speaker 3: You're surrounded by arguably the smartest people in the world.
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  Speaker 3: You've been having fireside chats with them, and I've been
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  Speaker 3: fascinated to listen to these conversations. Are you surprised they
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  Speaker 3: have not been clever enough to sell the American people
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  Speaker 3: who might be skeptical about this technology and the means
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  Speaker 3: with which we're developing it through data centers?
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  Speaker 1: And I think today was sort of the first day
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  Speaker 1: that they really sort of grabbed onto it and tried
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  Speaker 1: to understand that they really, they were saying the word intelligence, right?
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  Speaker 1: Like data centers create intelligence. But the right way to
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  Speaker 1: say it is the way they said it today at
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  Speaker 1: the G20, which is it's education in a bottle. And
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  Speaker 1: what they were saying is imagine if all the world,
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  Speaker 1: the smartest people in the world were willing to move
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  Speaker 1: to your country Speak your language. Speak your language and
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  Speaker 1: work on the projects you want them to work on.
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  Speaker 1: Would you really keep those people out of your country? See,
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  Speaker 1: that's what AI is. AI is education. It's the ability
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  Speaker 1: to ask the smartest people in the world to do
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  Speaker 1: what you want them to do. And that is what
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  Speaker 1: I set out to do today, to have the world
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  Speaker 1: understand that they can grow and build using the American
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  Speaker 1: tech stack and AI.
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  Speaker 3: You've talked about our adversaries potentially spoiling the narrative here
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  Speaker 3: through disinformation when it comes to data center.
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  Speaker 2: Is that true? Where's it coming from? I do.
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  Speaker 1: I think data centers, I mean, think about it. The
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  Speaker 1: number one product that uses water is an almond farm.
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  Speaker 1: And the next thing is cattle. I mean, data centers
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  Speaker 1: don't use water. This is just misinformation.
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  Speaker 3: Well, the early generation did, right? I know the newer
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  Speaker 3: plants are closed circuit and use different cooling systems. But
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  Speaker 3: people remember these old data centers that made a lot
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  Speaker 3: of noise. They used a lot of water and drained
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  Speaker 3: a lot of power.
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  Speaker 1: So basically, if your community embraces data centers, you're going
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  Speaker 1: to have great economics. You'll have more power will be
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  Speaker 1: built and the price of power in your community will
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  Speaker 1: go down. And you'll have the economic power. of they're
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  Speaker 1: paying taxes, and they're making your community better. So if
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  Speaker 1: your community doesn't embrace a data center, some other community will.
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  Speaker 1: And I think data centers are part of the mix.
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  Speaker 1: They're not the mix, because you can always rent a
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  Speaker 1: data center from another community that's using it. But the
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  Speaker 1: fact is, education is coming. Democratized education is coming, and
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  Speaker 1: the opportunity in entrepreneurship which this will really work for America,
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  Speaker 1: because we are the most entrepreneurial country. Do you realize,
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  Speaker 1: compared to last year, entrepreneurship, new startups, up 40%, usually
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  Speaker 1: it's like up 2%, up 40% year over year. This
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  Speaker 1: is really the greatness of America coming out.
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  Speaker 3: Sam Altman put a very fine point on that when
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  Speaker 3: he was speaking to the room full of folks in
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  Speaker 3: a fireside chat that you were just leading. When it
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  Speaker 3: comes to disinformation, though, have you confronted your Chinese counterpart
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  Speaker 3: about this?
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  Speaker 2: Have you met on data centers?
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  Speaker 1: We met with our Chinese counterparts, and we really talked
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  Speaker 1: about how we could work together. Remember, the G20 is
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  Speaker 1: all about a collaborative way to how to do things together, right?
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  Speaker 1: Can we come up with a set of pillars, a
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  Speaker 1: set of really instructional items on AI and technology? Can
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  Speaker 1: we all work together, all G20? And I think we
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  Speaker 1: are going to reach consensus amongst us all.
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  Speaker 2: Isn't this zero-sum, though? Somebody's got to lose, Mr. Secretary.
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  Speaker 1: No.
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  Speaker 2: Am I wrong?
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Are we trying to beat China?
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  Speaker 1: Yes. We are trying to have the American AI tech
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  Speaker 1: stack be out there in front. But if you think
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  Speaker 1: about AI, there's a if the smartest, if we talk
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  Speaker 1: about education, the smartest frontier models in the world are American.
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  Speaker 1: They're the teacher. And if the teacher is relentlessly studying
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  Speaker 1: to stay at the frontier, the smartest, the greatest in
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  Speaker 1: the world, the students are always going to be a
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  Speaker 1: little back. And that's what you have right now with
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  Speaker 1: Chinese open source models. They are studying from us, but
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  Speaker 1: it's open AI, it's anthropic and By the way, Tom
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  Speaker 1: Brown was here. He's a founder of Anthropic. He was
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  Speaker 1: one of my fireside chats earlier today. And the idea
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  Speaker 1: is those are the teachers. Those are the frontier. And
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  Speaker 1: the Chinese open source models are a couple of generations
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  Speaker 1: back because that's what students are going to be when
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  Speaker 1: the teacher is the smartest in the world and keeping
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  Speaker 1: at the frontier.
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  Speaker 3: And China is the student, to your point. Fascinating to
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  Speaker 3: see you sitting down with Tom Brown. Has Anthropic righted
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  Speaker 3: its relationship with this administration?
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  Speaker 1: They did. They did. We had a good kerfuffle. Yeah. Right?
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  Speaker 1: It was out there. But, you know, they've gotten religion.
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  Speaker 1: They understand.
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  Speaker 2: What's the religion?
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  Speaker 1: The religion is that there is no country better than America.
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  Speaker 1: And that you have to be on side with America
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  Speaker 1: because America's on your side.
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  Speaker 2: Did they need to be taught that?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think... They were a little confused about the topic,
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  Speaker 1: but we sorted that out. The president sorted that out,
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  Speaker 1: and I helped sort it out. And now I think
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  Speaker 1: we're all in tune together. So OpenAI was here with Sam,
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  Speaker 1: but so was Tom Brown with Anthropic. Jensen was here.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, indeed.
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  Speaker 1: And now Alex Karp. So we're talking, trying to get
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  Speaker 1: the world's G20 ministers to understand that the American Tech
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  Speaker 1: Stack is going to democratize education. They should bring it in.
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  Speaker 1: It'll speak in their language. Right. And use it to
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  Speaker 1: make the world a better place. This is the opportunity
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  Speaker 1: to make the world a better place. And it's the
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  Speaker 1: American tech stack that's going to drive it. Well, we've
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  Speaker 1: got China on our mind here. There's a question about
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  Speaker 1: tariffs when it comes to chips. I don't know if
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about all semiconductors, Mr. Secretary, if it's memory,
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  Speaker 1: if it's beyond that. But what are you preparing to unveil? Well, remember,
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  Speaker 1: the Trump administration has always said, if you build here,
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  Speaker 1: there's no tariff. Yeah. And you know, we set out
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  Speaker 1: as one of our key things that when the Trump
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  Speaker 1: administration walked in the door and I walked in the door,
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  Speaker 1: we had like 1% production of semiconductors. And our goal
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  Speaker 1: is now 40%. And if Intel can be successful, which
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  Speaker 1: it's clearly on the way to be, we can get
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  Speaker 1: to 50% domestic.
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  Speaker 2: By the end of the term.
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  Speaker 1: By the end of the term. We want that shovels
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  Speaker 1: in the ground building. And we'll all be complete, but
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  Speaker 1: there'll be shovels in the ground building it to get
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  Speaker 1: us to 40 or 50% production of semiconductors. And the
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  Speaker 1: idea is very simple, and it's been very successful with pharmaceuticals.
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  Speaker 1: Build it here, and you won't pay a tariff while
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  Speaker 1: you're building. But if you're not willing to put shovels
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  Speaker 1: in the ground here, then you should pay to have
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  Speaker 1: access to the greatest market in the world. And I
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  Speaker 1: think that's our objective. We're going to shoot for 50%
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  Speaker 1: market share, right? 50% of our own consumption should be
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  Speaker 1: built here. And that's our objective. And we have commitments already,
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  Speaker 1: already of $ 1. 2 trillion dollars building. So TSMC, 265 billion. Micron,
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  Speaker 1: 250 billion.
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  Speaker 2: That's two companies.
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  Speaker 1: Over 500 billion dollars. So you can see they're coming
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  Speaker 1: to America. They're building to America. The policy is working.
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  Speaker 2: So it sounds like if you're SK or Samsung, you're
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  Speaker 2: on notice. You are on notice that they are going
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  Speaker 2: to build here.
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  Speaker 1: They need to build here. It's vital that they build here.
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  Speaker 3: Can we build Foundry fast enough? to get to that
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  Speaker 3: level in the next two years, that's breaking the sound barrier.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that we can finish in time, but
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  Speaker 1: surely we can be way shovels in the ground, big
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  Speaker 1: construction projects going, TSMC, huge projects going, huge, $ 265 billion.
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  Speaker 1: So shovels in the ground, cement being poured, huge numbers
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  Speaker 1: of construction projects, huge long-time orders. Same with nuclear, we're
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  Speaker 1: going to do the same thing with nuclear. We want
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  Speaker 1: to build in America. We want the Trump administration, while
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  Speaker 1: he's in office, to have launched the clear factory build
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  Speaker 1: that makes advanced manufacturing in America, semiconductors in America, pharmaceuticals
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  Speaker 1: in America, nuclear in America. Let's get this going so
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  Speaker 1: that America wins.
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  Speaker 3: Can't mention tariffs without asking you about Canada. I talked
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  Speaker 3: to Doug Ford last week. He said the United States
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  Speaker 3: can't move on the goalposts.
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  Speaker 2: You see it very differently. Is there a chance to
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  Speaker 2: figure this out or is this dead?
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  Speaker 1: No, what happened was we negotiated, Canadians approached us and said,
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  Speaker 1: come on, let's try to get an interim deal done.
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  Speaker 1: So we worked, you know, before we start doing the
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  Speaker 1: big USMCA sort of big, big thing. And we sat
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  Speaker 1: with them six weeks of negotiations and we hammered out
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  Speaker 1: a deal. Mark Carney starts talking to the president. calls
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  Speaker 1: him multiple times. I'm in the room with the president
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  Speaker 1: and they reach agreement. And the president like trots out,
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  Speaker 1: we have a deal. He had a deal because he
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  Speaker 1: talked to Mark Carney. And then we were just putting
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  Speaker 1: the finer points on it. And Friday at four o'clock,
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  Speaker 1: for example, my Canadian counterparts, they called me and said,
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  Speaker 1: we'd like heavy trucks.
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  Speaker 2: And I said, no, no, listen, listen.
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  Speaker 1: It's Friday at four o'clock. We're signing it at like
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  Speaker 1: six or seven. There's no new topic that you're coming
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  Speaker 1: up with now. And I said to him, are you
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  Speaker 1: trying to blow this up? And the answer was, and
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  Speaker 1: I quote, I'm not allowed to sit. They decided for
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  Speaker 1: political reasons, domestically, domestic Canada, they'd rather fight with Donald Trump,
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  Speaker 1: even if it's bad for the economy of Canada, for
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  Speaker 1: their political ambition to get certain elections. Now remember, Quebec
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: has the sovereign party was in the lead. So that's
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: why they came up with this French nonsense. The American
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: side talked about how people speak in Quebec.
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  Speaker 2: We do have a deal with France.
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  Speaker 1: We have a deal with Italy. We have a deal
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: with Germany. We don't care about their language. None of
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: that was true. Alberta's got an independence vote. This is
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: the Canadian Liberal Party using their economy to get themselves elected,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: even if they're selling their own citizens down the river.
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  Speaker 1: It's sad and disappointing, but that's just the way it is.
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  Speaker 2: That sounds like we're not getting a deal anytime soon.
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  Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like it does. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: All right. Mr.
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  Speaker 3: Secretary, you've been generous with your time, and I have
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  Speaker 3: to ask you lastly about 25 years since 9-11. What
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  Speaker 3: must be going through your mind? And I'm sure that
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you'll be taking part in tributes. You'll have your own
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  Speaker 3: personal experience at the.
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  Speaker 2: End of this week.
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  Speaker 3: But can you tell our audience, can you tell the
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  Speaker 3: markets that America is safer now than it was then?
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  Speaker 1: America is by far safer now. We think about things.
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  Speaker 1: We study things. You know, being a part of the government,
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  Speaker 1: You know, with a very high security clearance. I get
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: to read all the time. And our adversaries wish us ill.
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  Speaker 1: Make no mistake about it, they wish us ill. But
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  Speaker 1: we are smart, we are thoughtful, and we are capable.
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  Speaker 1: And what actually hurts me the most is when I
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: see people running for office in America who hate America.
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  Speaker 1: You know, like say something like America deserved it. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: how horrible to suggest that. that my brother and all
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  Speaker 1: my friends who were living the American dream and just
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: came to work that day, for someone to say that we,
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  Speaker 1: the great America living the American dream, deserve anything. We
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: deserve happiness, prosperity, and the pursuit of the American dream.
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  Speaker 1: That's who we are. That's who we've always been. And
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  Speaker 1: people who are jealous of us don't deserve airtime, and
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  Speaker 1: I wish they didn't get it.
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  Speaker 3: Well, what would be your message to young people who
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: were not alive then? This is something that they've read about,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: that they've heard about. And there's some very troubling conversations
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  Speaker 3: that we hear in high schools and on college campuses
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  Speaker 3: about this.
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  Speaker 2: What do you tell people.
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  Speaker 3: Who are not alive on 9-11, who do not realize
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  Speaker 3: what a big deal that was for the history of
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  Speaker 3: this country?
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  Speaker 1: The American dream lives inside of each of us.
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  Speaker 2: It's part of our.
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  Speaker 1: DNA and our heritage. It's who we are and who
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  Speaker 1: we become. And the rest of the world just does
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: not have that entrepreneurship, the energy, the vision that I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: can be born and I could be the president of
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  Speaker 1: the United States of America. Anybody can. And they are.
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  Speaker 1: And so what I would say to them is you
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  Speaker 1: have inside of you the American dream. And if other
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  Speaker 1: people are jealous and other people are nasty and other
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  Speaker 1: people hate you and jihadists want to kill you, the
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  Speaker 1: fact is the beauty of America is the American dream.
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  Speaker 1: And you should always protect it, defend it, and love
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: it because it's inside of each of us and it
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  Speaker 1: makes us what we are, which is great and special.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks for having us today in Chapel Hill.
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  Speaker 3: As the Secretary of Commerce, of course, with us live
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  Speaker 3: on Bloomberg TV and Radio Howard Lutnick, thank you.