Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / This founder scaled her business from $1-$50M, here’s her blueprint with Primary’s Galyn Bernard (part 1)

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This founder scaled her business from $1-$50M, here’s her blueprint with Primary’s Galyn Bernard (part 1) · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  This is Galen Bernard for Female Startup Club. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the show. Today, we're learning from Galen Bernard, founder of Primary. Primary is a non-gender, sustainable and inclusive kids' clothing brand, rewriting the rules for what kids wear every day.
• 0:27
  The brand creates timeless essentials at great prices, all while keeping kids comfortable at home, the playground and at school. An all-inclusive, non-gendered brand, primary provides quality fabrics in every style and color, catering to all kids' needs and wants.
• 0:45
  You are going to love this episode. And if you're on your phone listening to this episode right now, please consider taking a quick screenshot of the podcast and share it to your Instagram stories or leave us a review in your podcast app to help other ears find us. You're also always welcome to slide into my DMs or my inbox because you know how much I love to chat. Let's get into this episode. This is Galen for Female Startup Club.
• 1:15
  Galen, hi, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to dig into your story and what you've been building over the last many, many years. We always love to start these episodes by getting you to give us a bit of an elevator pitch. What is your brand and what is the ethos behind it? Sure. Well, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
• 1:37
  Primary is a baby and kids clothing company that I started with a partner about seven years ago, really because we were frustrated shopping for our own kids' clothing. Yeah.
• 1:49
  And so we decided to launch a brand that would solve those frustrations. Namely, we wanted a brand that stood for color in a way that we couldn't find in the market and where color was for every kid. I have twin girls who never liked pink growing up. And I couldn't believe one year when I had to buy them orange jackets in this quote unquote boys section,
• 2:13
  It just seemed very outdated that I could only find girls jackets available in pink, white and teal. And so we wanted a brand where every color was for every kid, where we weren't being prescriptive about who could wear what. That was really important.
• 2:29
  And then the other important piece was sort of simplicity and letting the kids shine. And so in addition to offering a huge range of beautiful colors, we also focus on simple classic designs versus logos and slogans and all sorts of sort of trendy details and really are able to offer that quality at an amazing price point for busy parents. And so that's what we set out to do. And that's what primary is all about today.
• 2:56
  Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. I know that you guys started building this around 2015. And at the time you and Christina, your co-founder were working together. And I can see that you're, you know, you've gone through that experience where you're frustrated, but what was the kind of moment where you were like, Hey, we should actually do this. Like, what are the considerations you're going through? What's that phase like of going from, Hey, I'm dreaming about this. And it's a pain point frustration to being like, I'm going to quit my job and start this business.
• 3:25
  Yeah, well, it helped a lot to have a partner, to be honest. I think it was, you know, something, an idea that we had been thinking about and working on and pulling sort of ideas for for about a year, maybe six months before we actually made the decision to go try it. And so it was first and foremost, like the idea that we couldn't stop thinking about. And it was like we kept being excited and we kept being inspired and sort of dreaming about like being able to actually go do this.
• 3:54
  But we also were working at Amazon. We had great jobs, like a lot of security. It was scary for sure to think about like, okay, we're going to leave this behind and we're going to go try this thing that like, who knows what's going to happen. Yeah.
• 4:09
  And so I think that having a partner, like we actually quit on the same day to sort of do this idea together. And I think that helped a lot. It was almost like we were sort of holding each other's hands through that part of it. And then I think the other thing that just gave us a lot of comfort and confidence was that we knew that in a worst case scenario, we would go try this thing that we were so passionate about. And even if it didn't work, we would have had sort of pride and success and learned a ton by trying.
• 4:39
  And we could have gone back and gotten other jobs after that. And so it just felt like a nice two-way door in that where we didn't feel like we were really losing anything in the worst case scenario. And then in a best case scenario, think of how amazing this would be to build a brand that we've been dreaming of for that long. And so that just gave us the conviction to close our eyes a little bit and just go for it. It was a little Thelma and Louise, but not so dramatic. Yeah.
• 5:09
  there's two like schools of camp though, when you're kind of quitting your job to build a business, because there's the one side that's like, which is I typically fall into, which is like, stay in your job, use your salary to invest in this business, prove out the concept on the side. And when you've kind of like gotten comfortable, go all in, but you've obviously just been like, Nope, we're going to go all in. We're going to start this from the beginning. So I'd love to understand that early kind of money piece of like,
• 5:34
  How much did you need to invest to get started and get the business kind of to launch? And how were you financing the brand in the beginning? Yeah. So we did sort of make the decision to go all in on it. And we did know that with that came a need to raise early capital. So we ended up working for like four months based on savings that we had without earning a salary. So that was like putting the business plan together and going out and raising a seed round of financing. Yeah.
• 6:03
  And then once we raise that seed round, which, um,
• 6:07
  We had planned to do a friends and family round, and we were looking to raise about $750,000, which would have sort of paid for our salaries and a small team to sort of get the business up and running, like that first order of inventory. And we ended up raising a bit more than that. But that's when we started paying ourselves. I think that helped. Like, we just knew that we needed to raise that round in order to pay ourselves a salary. And if that hadn't happened, I think we would have been...
• 6:35
  facing obviously a tricky proposition of like, do we keep going and try to bootstrap this or not? Like this was our try. I think luckily we didn't face that challenge at that point because we were able to successfully raise that seed round, but it definitely would have been tricky. I think at that point to figure out what we're going to do.
• 6:52
  Totally. And so you raised the seven or just over 750,000. Let's just say, let's just say a million for the sake of the episode, but you raised a million dollars. It was two and a half actually. Two and a half. Okay. You raised two and a half in capital. You've got the runway. You've got like, obviously a lot of confidence. So many people are excited about what you're doing.
• 7:11
  What happens next? How do you actually start like, you know, finding the manufacturers, getting the designs, all these things to get you to a point where you've got like an order and you're ready to launch? Yes.
• 7:24
  It really was like a moment for us where we just have had to keep reminding ourselves like one foot in front of the other one. Because I think if we stepped back and thought about like the overall task of just what you outlined, like even now, like seven years in, it like gives me anxiety to just think about like how enormous that was for us, too, where we had like never made clothing before. We had worked at a startup and we had done e-commerce and we had worked in brand management, but we had never actually...
• 7:54
  like ourselves physically figured out how to go make clothing and launch a website. And so it was just one of those, like we are going to talk to as many people as we can, and we're going to follow the breadcrumbs and we're going to, when we talk to this person, we're going to see if that person can introduce us to a couple other people. And so it was just like, we were relentless in trying to figure out how to get to a,
• 8:17
  someone who could help us make clothing that was of the sort of quality and design that we were looking for. It was really just that. And so we ended up with a few partners who had kind of done this before, but without really an internal team who was sort of an expert in this area.
• 8:32
  And it's the thing that I would do the most differently, I think, looking back, is think about like the things that Christina and I were good at, were in our wheelhouse, we were sort of set up to do well, and just make sure that we rounded out the team even really early on.
• 8:50
  with a compliment who had like designed and manufactured clothing before. I think in hindsight that that business specifically is so much about relationships. It's so complex. And we would have benefited, I think, a ton from having someone who was like, I've done this before. Like, let me just handle this.
• 9:09
  But we learned a lot trying to do it ourselves. I bet you learned a lot. I'm reading Phil Knight's Shoe Dog at the moment. And I'm just like... Oh, so good. Loved it. I just don't know if I could do that. It just sounds so like...
• 9:22
  And I know what you're saying. It's really, you know, something I've said to myself a lot recently is just like focus on my current problems of like tomorrow, what I need to solve and not like future me problems that creep in. And then you think, oh, well, I've got all these scattered thoughts about all these different things. But actually, I don't need to be thinking about that until six months time when that other thing happens, you know? Exactly.
• 9:41
  And it's really an exercise in being able to train your brain to be like, have clear focus, focus on tomorrow, follow that one breadcrumb to the next thing and the next thing and next thing and see where you land. Yes, totally. And sometimes it's helpful for me to physically just look down at my feet and what is there that I need to focus on today and...
• 10:02
  And then with that, too, I think having a like document or like wherever you keep notes, a notebook or something of like all the things you're stressed about for later. It helps me to just like get them out of my brain onto a piece of paper somewhere so that I know it's there. I've like addressed it. It's like there when I'm ready, but I don't have to like have mental energy around it in the in the sort of short term.
• 10:24
  That is such a great practical tip. It's like, yeah, write down your future stresses that you know will have to cross that bridge one day and that's a side project that you need to add in, but it's over there and you just don't need to, it can leave your brain. Like you said, I love that. It's really helpful. I'm totally going to start doing that because I've got too many things floating around in my head. Totally. It's super normal. But yeah, just like the exercise of like getting them down and like, yep, I see it there is helpful.
• 10:50
  Something I love to focus on in every episode is trying to understand that like blueprint around launching a business. So I'd love to kind of go into the launch, what you were doing in the lead up to launch. You've obviously got product that's arrived. You're ready to sell. What is that time like and how are you drumming up interest towards launch? So we, um,
• 11:15
  sort of made a conscious decision that out of the gate, we were going to give it a few months just of sort of organic, not spending paid marketing dollars, just to sort of make sure everything was working and that we knew what we were doing before we were investing money in sort of acquiring customers and getting more word out about the brand. And so we did that. We sent, you know, we sort of put up, um,
• 11:38
  social media pages and we had a sign up for the wait list to get notified about our launch that's coming up. We told everyone we knew, like friends and family, investors, just sort of spread the word. We also did sort of a referral program among our early investors.
• 11:57
  where they, it was sort of a little contest where they each got a personalized code and they could refer friends and then whoever had the most would like, you know, claim victory or something. It was like not monetary or anything, just sort of like- For glory. For the glory of it, exactly. I love that. And that helped too. I think that early endorsement from people and investors who obviously were super passionate about the business and the brand, but also had a big incentive to like see this launch go well.
• 12:25
  was great for us and helped to sort of like amplify the message a little bit early on. So that was really it. And then we, you know, once we sort of knew that like the website was working and that was, you know, getting to the actual launch is always like a lot. So making sure that like the product images were all loaded and that the site was working and we could figure out how the warehouse was going to pick and pack and ship products out. Like all those things that...
• 12:54
  you sort of flip from like, oh my God, are we gonna actually have product in the warehouse in time? Like we went out to see it and like look at the actual physical product, it was all there. And we're like, oh, okay, now it's like really time. We have to like make sure that this website is real and working and like, we're gonna go. You know, always so exciting and like so much energy around that moment. So yeah, the launch date, we just had our seventh birthday. So I can't believe how long ago it has been, it still feels like yesterday sometimes.
• 13:23
  So you launched in 2015. We did. Right, right, right. And so what are those early months of kind of organic growth? What does that look like for you? What was the impact? Was it, you know, loads of orders like pouring through the door or was it really that kind of step by step stacking things on top of each other?
• 13:44
  Yeah, well, it was interesting. We had an amazing first month, I think in large part because of sort of like, you know, we had been talking to our friends and families and investors, et cetera, about this launch that was coming. So there was some like pent up demand related to that. So the first month was bigger than we had forecast. And then because of that, we started selling through inventory.
• 14:05
  that we had purchased and didn't have a reorder coming. I think that was like another thing was figuring out the lead times on reorders. And we thought it was gonna be eight weeks and it was like 16 weeks. And so,
• 14:19
  bigger month than we thought out of the gate. And then like the next couple of months were smaller because we didn't have anything to sell. And then we got our reorder in and we were like, okay, I think we're ready to start spending money in marketing. And that was when, you know, I think it was early days of Facebook and that was actually a channel we didn't even use at our previous company. So, um, that's dating us a little bit, but,
• 14:44
  But it was brand new for us. But I think the best part of early Facebook advertising for us was really just the like opportunity to get direct feedback from people who were seeing the ads and were like commenting on them right there. It helped us.
• 15:00
  sharpen our message a little bit like as an example when we went live with the product I think Christina and I like both feel strongly about just sort of presenting our proposition and not alienating anyone and just sort of like putting it out there in a nice way so our first headline was brilliant basics all under $25 which is true for sure
• 15:23
  But it's like not super breakthrough in terms of like this is going to get someone's attention as they're scrolling through their Facebook feed. But the imagery was beautiful and it was like our solid colors of baby suits in the full rainbow and bright colors that like didn't really exist in the baby category for sure or much really in the kids category at that point. And super simple so like.
• 15:46
  We didn't want to do logos and slogans, but we didn't say that because we didn't want to alienate anyone who happened to like logos and slogans.
• 15:55
  But those early ads, customers were like, people who saw these ads were playing that back to us and saying like, oh, finally, like no stupid princesses. And like, oh my God, no stupid slogans on these, you know, gorgeous, simple onesies. And we're like, yes, that's really what we wanted to say, but we were sort of too scared to say it. And so just putting out visuals
• 16:17
  to people and hearing what they say back and reaction to it gave us like more confidence to start saying what we really meant without worrying if someone over there who happens to really love a logo, like maybe this brand isn't for them and that's okay too. And so I think we've gotten better at listening to consumers and taking away like it's okay. And it's better to just be very honest about what, who you are and what you're offering versus like trying to sort of hide it or be really careful about what you're saying.
• 16:47
  And also, I think what's really important, and this is something I think about a lot, actually, is casual language that actually is what it is and how your customers would say it. Like you were hearing people say these things, turning it into your marketing message. It's like the same on a landing page. You shouldn't like try and make some fancy abstract like thing.
• 17:05
  It should be very clear. This is what it does. A to B, like here's the, here's the kind of like casual language based on what your consumers even tell you that it is. And I think that's something that often gets overlooked, but good marketing and good copy really is reflective of what consumers are saying about your brand. I love that. Yes, totally. Yeah. It's something we talk about a lot really. And sort of just around like how important authenticity is for us for sure, but really for any brand starting out where you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're,
• 17:32
  It's so much more fun. And I think it's so much more compelling for customers when you're like really putting your true self out there. And you understand that pain point and you set like, yeah, you're saying no stupid slogans and then people are like, Oh yeah. Like I hate slogans on baby wear. Like, you know, there's just such a direct relation there. Yes, exactly. And then on the, you know, sort of more casual voice, um,
• 17:59
  We do talk all the time about, you know, we have an e-commerce site. That's like our main method of selling. We just launched a partnership with Bye Bye Baby, but otherwise sell everything through our site. And where we want customers to feel like when they read our product descriptions or any of our copy, it's like the most helpful salesperson in the store is just telling you some things that you need to know.
• 18:20
  like without being too salesy or without being aggressive, but just helpful. And so we strive for that all the time. We don't necessarily always get it right, but that's what we're always trying to do. Very clever. I love that.
• 18:33
  Okay. So you go through this time, you've kind of started to dabble in the performance marketing side of things. If you have to sum up those major milestones in those kind of years that have leapt you forward or gotten you, even if it's not actually something that's leapt you forward, but it's been a big milestone in the journey over the years, what would you kind of put those down if you had to put dot points on?
• 18:57
  I think the first two things that come to mind are one of those marketing moments when we launched, we sort of had the confidence to launch our first ad with a little bit more of a point of view. And it said, not all baby suits need to say little slugger. And that for us was like...
• 19:16
  true and honest and authentic, but like a little like still a little scary. But the feedback to that like shift in messaging was like, we were like, we're really onto something. People really care about this and have been looking for it too.
• 19:36
  And we think this is a brand that like definitely has some potential. It's about like finding your tribe of people who believe the same things as you and like not being for everyone because there are the people who love that vibe and they should find the brands that speak to them. And you kind of like almost by being more controversial, you separate like who is your customer to who is not your customer. And I think that's really important. Yes, completely. And I related to that. We got an advice.
• 20:05
  from lots of amazing people along the way, but Mark Laurie in particular who founded Diapers always said that brands are built at the extreme. And so for us, that was true. I think in terms of like extreme simplicity and extreme color breadth, extreme curation really on our site early on helped us. I think just remember that like, this is a long, we're playing a long game here. It's a long journey. It doesn't mean like we're starting at this like very extreme. It doesn't mean we always have to stay there, but just making sure that people are very clear on
• 20:34
  what you're all about, I think is huge, especially in this space where it's easy to get lost. And, you know, there are a lot of brands that are trying to be everything to everyone. And that wasn't what we were wanting. That's not what we were trying to do. Absolutely. Okay, so back to the milestones, back to the major kind of moments, we start with that one.
• 20:54
  Yes. So that was one. Then there was one where we started getting NPS survey feedback. NPS survey was something that we knew a lot about from diapers, but it took us a minute sort of when we launched to get it up and running. And, you know, the first few months,
• 21:11
  Our NPS score was like high 80s, hit 90 a couple times. And the customer feedback that came with those NPS scores. So it wasn't just the score itself, which for us was like, oh, we're so proud of it. It felt like we are delivering the kind of service that we've always wanted to.
• 21:30
  We should just interject for anyone who doesn't know for NPS, it's net promoter score. And obviously the higher the better. I think they say like something over 70% is like amazing. But it's basically people kind of come back and like rate your site.
• 21:46
  And it's based on one question, which is on a scale of one to 10, how likely would you be to refer primary or wherever you had just shopped to a friend? So, yeah, that is sort of like the basis for like how you're doing because it takes into account so many things. So it's just one data point, but it was one that we always cared a lot about.
• 22:07
  And so it wasn't just the score, but it was really like the thoughtful feedback that customers were giving us when they were responding with suggestions and things like that. And and that to me just was always like, you know, we would read customer feedback at assemblies and like everyone would be crying because of how heartfelt some of these comments were from customers who were so thrilled. We didn't have a boys and girls section and, you know, their daughter who didn't like in quotes girly clothes could find clothes that she felt great in.
• 22:37
  Things like that were huge moments that just like kept us going when things got tough. And then there was a moment, I think, when we hit like our millionth dollar of revenue that was like, this is like kind of feels more real all of a sudden at that level of scale. So that felt like a big one, too, for sure. Those are sort of the most top of mind.
• 23:01
  That's so interesting that you say, you know, that was such a big moment hitting the million dollars because absolutely it is. It's such a big moment. I can't remember the stat off the top of my head right now, but it's something ridiculous that like barely any female founders will ever hit that like million dollar revenue mark. It's really, really low, but I'm not going to try and remember it because I bet I get it wrong.
• 23:21
  But what's also so interesting is I read an article about you from like 2019 that you'd done like 50 million in sales just for that one year. So I'm curious to know how you go from 1 million in sales to, you know, must be ridiculous by now, but 50 million in sales. Deep sigh. Yeah, a lot of work, a lot of work, a lot of work, an amazing team.
• 23:50
  and amazing customers who I think just like have been so supportive of us along the way and marketing dollars for sure. I think that we have raised like a good bit of additional capital, a lot of which has gone to investment oriented acquisition marketing. So spending on social channels at pretty significant levels to drive acquisition, knowing that like once a customer sort of came in and shopped primary, they would have, you know,
• 24:19
  a lifetime value, which we could sort of calculate based on their repeat purchases that would pay for that upfront initial investment, which, you know, I think is, to be honest, like not for everyone. And I think it takes like a lot of conviction and honestly, a lot of capital when you're also paying for inventory. Yeah.
• 24:41
  to invest ahead of time because you're like, you're making these investments in customer acquisition, and then you're seeing that investment pay back over, you know, the next year or so. And so it does take, it does take some capital, you know, our, those early orders were not breakeven. And so it meant that we had to raise more investment, which was fine. And we have amazing investors that, you know,
• 25:05
  have been very supportive. But I think that there are a lot of brands too that start out sort of bootstrapping and not going the investment marketing route and seeing if they can just start to pay themselves back on those initial orders, which is just a different way of going. I think because we were
• 25:23
  We had experience investment marketing from diapers.com. We sort of knew what that looked like. And we had conviction that we would see repeat behavior play out in a way that made that feel like high confidence investment. And it's part of the reason why we were able to scale relatively quickly out of the gate.
• 25:41
  Got it, got it. Very cool. And when you say investment marketing, it's also like performance marketing. That's what you mean, right? It is performance marketing. Yeah, I think it's sort of anything because even like, you know, we send catalogs out and that can be investment marketing too. So not maybe classic performance marketing as people think about like more digital, but where we are paying, you know, money upfront to send these catalogs out the door to prospects or people who haven't shopped primary before.
• 26:11
  hoping that like, even if we spend more on that catalog, then we'll get in terms of like initial orders up front, that those will pay back over time. Got it. And for the channels at the moment in more recent times, what are the channels that are performing well for you at the moment? And what are the channels that are not performing well at the moment? Yeah, I think, I mean, you know, sort of with iOS changes of late, everyone sort of is facing new challenges on the marketing front.
• 26:39
  So, you know, I think we still feel good about how channels that we've been using sort of since the beginning, like Facebook and Instagram and, you know,
• 26:49
  are performing, it's required the team to sort of relook at like our approach and just make sure that our cost of acquisition is still coming in in a reasonable place. So I think still working, but definitely like taking some time to sort of figure out how to fine tune. Google search has been a successful channel for us for sure. And then we do send catalogs out to new customers as well as some direct mail, right?
• 27:15
  And that's been a channel that we've used since our diapers.com days and continues to work well. I think it's also nice to have more real estate to tell your sort of brand story and offer more of a glimpse into your full assortment, which is harder to do, obviously, in sort of digital channels that are a little smaller format.
• 27:32
  Totally. And I guess it makes a lot of sense when if you're on, you know, if you look at your consumer behavior and you're scrolling on Instagram, it's easy to just like scroll, scroll, scroll, keep scrolling past. But if something arrives in your letterbox and the hook is there immediately, you have more time or you might put it down and come back to it. And it's kind of like a much longer time to enjoy that content. Yes, exactly. And even as a consumer myself, I enjoy getting
• 27:58
  catalogs that resonate with me. I mean, a huge stack of mail, but I always flip through to like pull out the thing that's the most interesting. So hopefully that is primary for people. I agree. I love being sold something. I'm like, great, great marketing. I appreciate good marketing. Yes. I'm a marketer's dream. I want people to solve my problems.
• 28:18
  I want to talk about something that I read you introduced at the start of the pandemic, the four-day workweek. What was driving that decision? How is it going? What's the vibe? It's so great. The word life-changing has come up about it from our team, and I feel that myself. So I would say how it's going is life-changing. We're about two years in on it now, and it's hard for me to imagine going back.
• 28:47
  And when we started it, it was actually like a concept that had come up before the pandemic. We had heard about it on, on another podcast and talked about it as a leadership team, just a little bit, like, would we ever consider something like this? It's really interesting. And we thought about it and thought, oh, that could be compelling, but didn't take any action. And then COVID hit and we were about a month in working from home and everyone was just exhausted. Like,
• 29:14
  like with every other company, I think you could see it, you could feel it like Monday mornings would roll around and everyone was feeling even more tired than they were at the end of the prior week, because the weekend was about like waiting in line at the grocery store and trying to figure out childcare and things like that. And so I think we all like just needed a break and it was sort of like everyone in their own way. I was like, I just need a minute to like catch up with myself, catch up on my stuff, think about work problems without just being on like back-to-back calls all the time.
• 29:44
  now from my desk without like getting up and walking around or going outside all day. And so we started with like, everyone's just gonna get two Fridays off in April. That was sort of like the start of the four day work week. And after that, I think everyone just felt so grateful for that extra time. We didn't miss a beat in terms of like performance or we weren't getting behind on our work. And so we thought, this is maybe something we should continue doing. And so that turned into Fridays off in May
• 30:15
  And then that turned into, let's try this for the rest of the summer. And then at the end of the summer, we said, let's try this for the end of the year. This is still 2020. And then, and so you could tell like,
• 30:28
  It wasn't something that we were ever like, we are gonna do this forever and all time. And I think that helped us have the confidence to just keep doing it because we knew that in a case where something wasn't working, business performance was suffering, or there was some other reason we needed to go back to the five day work week. It was always set up again as a two way door. And so we were transparent with the team on that. Like, as long as this is working, we trust the team, as long as everyone's getting their stuff done, like this is what we're gonna continue to do.
• 30:57
  And so at the end of 2020, though, we sort of said, you know what, this is working so well. We're so proud of the team. Everyone clearly appreciates it so much, including ourselves. And so let's continue this indefinitely. So we did, I think, and we haven't really looked back. The team appreciates it again so much. It doesn't mean that people aren't working on Fridays.
• 31:17
  for sure. But I think just that flexibility and knowing that you don't have to be working makes the biggest difference in the world for people who can choose to use that time, however it's best for them that week. 100%. I am so on board with the four-day work week. And it's a very big topic in the UK. A lot of businesses here are rolling it out. I actually feel like it might be like
• 31:40
  you know, like actually being rolled out, like kind of as a thing. I don't know, but it's a big deal. What I'm wondering is you obviously have a lot of investors. You've raised tons of capital. Was there anyone not for it? Was it an easy sell to get all the other people's approval for who was involved in the business? Or was it kind of like, yep, good to go?
• 32:03
  It was more that. I actually don't really remember even a sell. I think we had so much conviction in it. And we're also very reasonable about how we wanted to set it up. And so it felt like very low risk of trying it, where I think, you know, a lot of reasons not to try it are, well, who knows what's going to happen? And what if it doesn't work? And, you know, people a little bit scared of change, of course. Yeah.
• 32:31
  But when you know and say it out loud that like, if this isn't working, we're not going to do it anymore. All of a sudden it feels much less scary. And you sort of realize that there's really no way to learn whether it works or not, unless you actually do it. And so I think that was the case. And I think it helped too, that this was something that like, personally, Christina and I and the rest of the team were feeling. And so it made it really easy to...
• 32:57
  to just like say, we really need, the team really needs this. And I think our investors for sure have always been very supportive of that perspective where like we trust you. And if you think that's what you guys need, then great. We're sort of very supportive. So, so that was it. It didn't feel, it didn't feel hard.
• 33:18
  Sounds so cool. If anyone needs a job, go to primary. Sounds like a great place to work. Yes. The 40 work week has been awesome for sure. Oh my God. Love it. What do you think is important advice for entrepreneurs in 2022? I think two things come to mind the most. One is that if you have an idea that you can't stop
• 33:48
  And I would say that just given how hard it is and all the ups and downs that come with it, it's almost necessary to like love this idea and have so much conviction about it. Because otherwise, I think if it's just like, oh, this could be cool or this could be interesting. I don't think that that is like the basis of like, we're going to go try this.
• 34:10
  would give people enough motivation to sort of like stay in it through thick and thin. Cause there is a lot, there's a lot of that. And so I think just make sure that whatever idea you want to start, that you just like, it's almost like you have to like, get to that level where you almost have to. And, and then you'll, you'll make it work. What's that rule in dating? They say it's either a fuck yes or it's a no. Oh my God. Well, that's perfect.
• 34:40
  Yes. I've never even heard that, but that's, it's brilliant though. It's totally it. It has to be that because otherwise like it just is a no. And there, and it doesn't mean there's not another idea, but like, it has to be the fuck. Yes. Definitely. I love that. Oh my God. That's my favorite thing. Okay. You're going to write down your like struggling ideas in your notebook over there. And I'm going to like do the fuck yes or no test.
• 35:02
  And then otherwise, once you pass that test, then like you just have to go. You just have to like put all the challenging, scary things like in the notebook over there. And then you just have to start because there's never a perfect time. There's never enough money in the bank. There's like never enough like help to like deal with all the other shit. And so you just have to do it and know like, I don't know, it's helpful for me too to think about the worst case scenario. Like just play that out. If you're scared about something,
• 35:32
  literally envision if this goes terribly, terribly, like what does that look like? And like, once you can see it, then it like feels less bad somehow. It's the unknown that tends to be the most scary. But if you can put some known to like, oh, this is the worst thing that's ever happened. Like what, what actually happens, then I think it starts to feel less scary. So I would do that too. Love both of those. Great. Amazing. Thank you so much. Of course.
• 36:04
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 36:29
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 36:51
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.
• 37:08
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 37:32
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 37:55
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.