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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Husband Claims Wife With Postpartum Slit Her Throat In Shower · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Moore. You know, I think
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: that probably the scenes I hated working most were... Well,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: people always say children. And yeah, I agree. They are
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the worst. They truly are. But for me, it was
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: anything involving... knife play or sharp force injuries. And here's why.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: It's such an incredible mess. It really is. From an
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: assessment standpoint, it makes your life as an investigator very,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: very difficult because it's hard to kind of, you know,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: visualize what you need to assess at the scene and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: come up with an accurate assessment. Today on Body Bags,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: we're going to take a look at a case that
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: involves a woman who has allegedly taken her own life
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: with a sharp instrument. And anatomically, believe it or not,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: it's probably one of the rarest sights you'll ever come
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: across as an investigator. And we'll explore that. And also,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: what else did we find out relative to The fact,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: or it's been alleged at least, that this might not
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: be what it seems. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: is Body Bags. Brother Dave, I was kind of mulling
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: over this case in my mind, and one of the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: things that really stands out to me is you have...
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: a woman who is 37 years old. And not only
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: is she a wife, but she is a mama. And
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: the ages of her children are three and one. And
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: one of the things that this theme that has run
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: through this case, as it has through other cases, is
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: this idea of postpartum depression. And, however, the nature of
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: this case is a little bit different than the other
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: ones that we have covered recently. And that's what makes
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: this quite unique, in addition to this very unique injury
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that Lindsay Barnett has suffered.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Well, when we look at the Clancy case where she
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: had been under mental health care, and had dealt with
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: a number of issues where postpartum had been brought up
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: after the fact. And it's still, you know, this is
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: a little bit different. You and I both reacted the
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: same way because this came from the husband. Okay. The
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: husband claiming that his wife was suffering postpartum. But let
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: me tell you a little bit about Patrick. Well, call
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: me Ted. I'm going to be honest with you, Joe.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: If you're in Colorado, North and West. Joe. how does
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: anybody say, call me Ted, if your name is Patrick?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, his middle name is Theodore. Okay. That was
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: the beaver.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Theodore.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Out there, you're thinking Bundy, man. Call me Ted. Come on.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: So that's who Patrick Barnett is. Yeah.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: There you go. But that's in Montana. Yeah.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But Patrick actually goes by the name Ted, and
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: that's his middle name. It's a nickname. So Ted Barnett,
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: he is married to Lindsay Barnett. And Ted calls 911
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: around 6 o'clock in the morning. Now, here's what he says.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: He's been sleeping downstairs because they had had a fight.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: And then you find out a little bit more, well,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: they'd been having a number of disagreements, and he had
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: been staying downstairs for some time, not in the marital bed,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: according to Ted. Now, Ted calls 911 and says, I
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: just found my wife in the shower with a laceration
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and a knife. and joe he described it as a
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: large laceration on the front of her body yeah and
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: that's where this all started from the husband calling 9-1-1
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: saying that his wife has a laceration i've never used
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: that term to describe a cut joe in my life
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: we have on this show and other crime shows we've
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: done but Laceration seems to me to be a professional
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: criminal type word when describing an injury caused by someone else.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: So when somebody says laceration, and it reminds me of
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: the other case in the Northeast we've been dealing with
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: where the husband finds his wife stabbed and describes it
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: as a laceration. Can you tell me what is it
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: in real life? What is a laceration?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, lacerations are associated with blunt force trauma.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Not a knife.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not a knife. You know, and my friends in medicine,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: particularly emergency medicine, they are, they often refer to, and
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: they love using the term LAC, L-A-C. And it's an
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: abbreviation or shortened version of laceration. You know, and you
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: can watch the medical shows, you know, somebody's rolling in
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: on a gurney and they'll say, The subject is a
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: white male. He's got four lacks to the posterior of
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: his head.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Well, now I'll pay attention. I thought they were just
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: mispronouncing something.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: No, a lack, a laceration. But those are associated with
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: blunt force trauma. And here's kind of a little aside.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: The way we delineate in forensics a laceration from a
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: sharp force injury, and this is certainly in the absence
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: of an instrument. So if we come across a body
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: that has a laceration, one of the things we're going
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: to be looking for with a laceration is going to
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: be what we refer to as tissue bridging. Now, what
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: is tissue bridging? So if you will imagine someone gets
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: struck with a baseball bat, a lead pipe, I don't know,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: an old rocking chair, doesn't matter, and it strikes, say,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: for instance, the scalp, With laceration, what you're going to
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: see is tissue bridging. And it kind of looks like
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: if you take your fingers like this and you pull
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: them apart ever so gently, this represents this large laceration.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Many times they're very jagged. And you've still got these
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: little strands of tissue that are attached. Why is that? Well,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: they're still attached because you don't have a milled blade attached.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: that has a very sharp edge on it that has
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: done a slice. And if you look at what we
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: refer to as the margins of an injury with a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: sharp force injury, you'll see that these edges are very
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: well defined. And because of the mild nature of the blade,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: what does it do? Well, it goes through what we
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: refer to, and write this one down, guys. This is
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: a learning opportunity. It's called full thickness, a full thickness injury.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So that means the full thickness, if we're talking about
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: the scalp, we're going down through the epidermis, the dermis,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: subcutaneous fat, and there's a muscle layer in there too,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and so you're getting down to the bone, all right? Now,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: it doesn't always go that deep, and, you know, full
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: thickness injury generally is indicative of saying, look, I can
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: see from the outside all the way down to the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: underlying skeletal structure. Laceration, when you roll up on this,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and I teach young cops this, because many times they'll
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: They'll have like a drunk guy that's sitting on a
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: curb who hasn't been there before. And the guy might
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: be bleeding from the forehead, for instance. When you see somebody,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I tell them, you know, when you see this, look
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: real closely at the injury because it might be non-communicative
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: with you. Is it jagged in shape? Well, possibly. That
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: means that maybe he fell down and struck himself or
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: somebody hit him with a rock or hit him with
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: their fist. Or are you seeing like a straight line
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: injury that is actually an incised injury where it has
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: neat margins to it? It's still bleeding, but that's not
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a laceration. That's cut. Why is that important for us
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: in forensics and investigations? Well, I know at that point, Tom,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: if it's jagged and he's bleeding from it, I'm not
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: looking for somebody with a knife. I'm looking for somebody
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: with a bat. However, if it's uniformed and the margins
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: are neat, I'm looking... I'm actually looking for somebody that
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: might be wielding a knife or a machete or even
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: an ax, brother, that has an edge that'll cut through
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the tissue. So that's the big delineation here. And no
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: offense to my friends in medicine, but their default position
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: is to say lack or laceration. They generally don't differentiate
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: between saying, well, this is an incised injury as opposed
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: to a blunt force injury.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Right. And In this case, the term laceration came from
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the husband who said it was a laceration. Brooke Hanlon
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: was the woman I was trying to think about. Her husband, Connor,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: found her at the top of the stairs in New Jersey.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: This happened in June and she had been stabbed in
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: the chest and he described it to 911 as a laceration.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: It just seems odd that that description is not something
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: that I would use, but no, I'm just out of time.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: But anyway, so we got the husband calling in 9-1-1. Now,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: by the time first responders arrived, Joe, Lindsay Barnett is
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: already she's gone. She's dead. And they immediately notice a
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: few things. According to her husband, she died in the shower.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: And yet. They do find a knife, a serrated knife,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: right next to her body in the shower there. But
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: they're noticing a lack of blood in the shower. What
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: would that tell you as an investigator? You find a
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: serrated knife and what appears to be a dead woman
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: with a cut on her chest or in her neck.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, on the neck, yeah. Well, if I don't have
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: any blood in the shower, I'm automatically going to think
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: that this probably... was initiated somewhere else. Because I got
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to tell you, brother, many cases that we've talked about,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: we always talk about how vascular the neck and the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: head are, right? And all of our friends can identify
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: with this. If you've ever, you know, as my granny
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: would say, boy, you're going to bust your head wide open.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: If you split your scalp, you're going to bleed profusely.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: If you injure some area in your neck, there's a
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: high probability you're going to get into a network of
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: vessels in there and you're going to have a lot
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: of blood. I would be quite shocked, you know, if I,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: if I found someone in a bathtub, for instance, which
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: by the way, with self-inflicted injuries is not uncommon to
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: find someone in the bathtub had multiple of those over
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the years.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: What about a shower though?
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Inside of a shower. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: same thing. Uh, you know, you would find, and it's, it's,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a sad commentary on one Just let
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: me touch on this just for a second. I've put
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of thought into this over the years because,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: you know, we handle a lot of self-harm cases in
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: my field more than we do homicides. And you will
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: have people that will injure themselves intentionally. And it's always
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: struck me as very, it's very poignant because many times
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: these people, they don't want to make a mess. They
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: don't want to create a problem for the family. So
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: they go into the shower and they'll do this where,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: you know, and I've had them do it where they've
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: left the water running and to wash everything, you know,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: down the drain. I've had people that have filled up
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: bathtubs with warm water. Of course, when I got there,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the water is cold, um, and have done this in
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the bathtub. It goes back, you know, that, that old
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: scene from, um, From The Godfather. Frankie's Five Angels. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Frankie Pentangeli.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Pentangeli, where he says, you know, the old capos
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: would go and sit in a warm bath.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Sometimes have a party.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and have a party and then bleed themselves. It's
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the same. It's kind of along the same lines. But
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: back to the question at hand. If I, as an investigator,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: show up at a scene and I see someone has
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: injured himself, or has been injured in the neck area.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: And I don't see any blood. I got a lot
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: more questions. Brother Dave, if we got her in the
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: shower and he says that he discovers her, the husband,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and he's calling this a laceration, um, He's just so
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: that I'm clear about this. Now they've got these two
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: young ones in the house with right.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And there is no alert gone up to them
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: at this point in time. He's made this call early
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: in the morning, six o'clock, six o'clock, you know, chickens,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: chickens are just stirring at that point in time during
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: the day. And he walks in and he finds her
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: in the shower. I'm going to have, you know, question
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: certainly for him, you know, how did this happen? I'm
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: curious as to what the police may have seen, you know,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: when they finally arrived there.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Joe, they found a lot, actually. Because again, for those
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: of us who, y'all, you guys watch crime stuff all
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: the time, okay? Joe and I cover a lot of crimes.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I've learned to listen to a lot of descriptions because
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: of Joseph Scott Morgan and Nancy Grace. I have learned
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: a lot. Especially when she says, Joe, just what?
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: By the way, out there to everybody, thank you for
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: coming to my defense when it comes to me. Tip
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: of the cap. I really appreciate it. It's okay.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Cut Dave Mack. Cut his mic off. But here's the thing.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: When you have the finder, who found the body and why?
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Why did they find it? Okay. Well, in this case,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: it's the husband.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Why were you not in bed with your wife? Because
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: they're going to find out what kind of relationship did
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: you have? Was there an ongoing fight that ended in death? Well, no,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: we had an argument and I was sleeping downstairs. Now,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: just so you know, police are going to investigate and
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: they're going to find out everything. Whether you tell them
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: or not, they're going to find it out. And it's
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: better that you don't deceive. So when you tell police
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: you've got your dead wife in the shower and. They
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: start looking around and you say, well, I wasn't up
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: here when it happened. I was downstairs. I came up.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: I actually came upstairs guys to apologize. You know, we'd
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: had a fight the night before and I was, I,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: the loving, I was coming up to apologize to her.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And that's when I found her. So you found her
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: in the shower. Okay. Because see what we're seeing, not
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of blood in the shower, but holy free
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: holies on the right hand side of the bed, Joe.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: It's saturated. The bed is covered in blood on one side,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the side where somebody was probably sleeping. It's covered in blood.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: There's blood all over the place. There's blood on the walls, Joe.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: There's blood all over the floor. Oh, and you know what? Joe,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: there's a potted plant that was sitting next to the bed.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: It had gotten turned over. And so in the whatever
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: was happening, There are footprints dragging the dirt from the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: potted plant into the bathroom, the master bath, where Lindsay
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Barnett's body was found in the shower. So if Lindsay
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Barnett went into the shower and killed herself there, who
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: or what created the bloody mess in the bed and
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: in the floor and the footprints, Joe? How did they
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: get there? Because according to Ted, Ted Barnett, we have
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: a loving family... No problem. We just had an argument
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: last night. I was coming up to apologize to her
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: this morning. And I found her in the shower. So
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: cops are going to want to know, what the heck
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: is all this? How did that get there?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, regular white night, I'll tell you what.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're such a good guy and you're
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: being so truthful. Did you guys have a blood and
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: mud party? Is that what was going on? Is that
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: what you were fighting about?
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Here's another descriptor that is quite interesting. You know, Dave,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever heard this. on one of
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the cases we've covered. And that is that the police
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: described these footprints as diminutive, I think, or small. Dainty.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: That was the word they used. Yeah, dainty footprints that
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: are left behind. Well, you know that it, you know,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I got to tell you, when I heard dainty at first,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, oh my Lord, please don't let this
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: be one of the kids. Because that has in fact happened.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: All you got to do All you got to do is,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: and I urge everybody here that if you have not
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: listened to our episode on the Pikedon massacres, go back
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: and listen to those episodes because it involves children and
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: children that have walked through blood. And, you know, and
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: that's always one of my greatest fears. You know, I
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: think about families or young ones, you know, discovering bodies
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and all those sorts of things. But I don't think
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: that they were dainty in the sense that they're diminutive,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: like down to the size of a child, it would
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: appear at least that one of the things that they
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: might be thinking about is going to be Lindsay in particular.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: And I got to tell you, when I think about that,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: one of the first things I'm going to do at
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: a scene, okay, When I'm examining a body, and again,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: this is taking everything into context. I've already got what
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: they have described as a pool of blood on the bed. Now,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: we've talked about this before. There's no way we can
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: measure what the volume of that blood is. It's an impossibility.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: You can't wring out the sheets. You can't wring out
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: the mattress pad. You can't wring out the mattress in
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: order to get a... You can't do it, okay? You
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: just can't. I think a lot of people ask us that.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: The best we can do when we see what they're
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: describing as a pool of blood on the mattress is
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: give you the dimensions, you know, in inches. We'll say,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: you know, at its greatest dimension running north and south,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that is this, and running east and west, it's this.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: And you can speak to the depth of the saturation,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: but you can't really say there is this much blood there.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: The question I think always comes up, and we've talked
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: about this, is there, is this so much blood that
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: it's incompatible with life? And so when I'm examining her body,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I'm going to see blood on the bed i'm going
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: to see any other pooled areas also the soil uh
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the soil from the tipped over plant and guess what
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: i'm going to do with her in the shower before
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: i move her i'm going to take a look at
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: her feet uh very very carefully I mean, I'll look
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: at everything very carefully, but I'm certainly going to take
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a look at the soles of her feet and to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: see if there's blood and soil deposition there. Because, friends,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: if you've never been around blood, think about blood to
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the sense like I have, you know, with the volume
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: of blood. One of the things you learn about blood
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: very quickly, it's not as tacky as glue, but it's very,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: very tacky. And so, Like I've had blood on my
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: gloves before when I'm doing an examination. Any other kind
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: of surface that I touch, I'm going to pick that
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: up onto my gloves because the blood will grab hold
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: of it. And it has this tackiness about it. So
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: as she is kind of walking along, if this is
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: her footprints, we assume that they are, she's going to
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: be picking up all of this debris as she is
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: moving toward the shower. I think one of the questions is,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Was she capable, Dave, of ambulating from the bed to
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: the shower to put herself in there?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Wow. Well, you know, Joe, there were some other things
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: the police noticed fairly early on. Again, she was found
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: in the shower and dead. As they're examining her body,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: something that it didn't occur to me, looking at bruising,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: you know, on somebody, that bruising only occurs while a
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: person is alive, you know. If you hit a dead body,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: it doesn't bruise.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: No, it doesn't.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: In the case of Lindsay, police documented there was enough
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: bruising and other injuries on her body that they documented these.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Some of the injuries that they noted, Joe, were consistent
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: with what would be referred to as defensive injuries. So
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: if you have somebody who has gone into the shower
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: to take a serrated knife and cut their own throat,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: You would not have defensive injuries.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: No.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't have bruising on your back and other areas
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: where it might be hard for you to reach.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: No, you wouldn't. And, you know, if I could just
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: for a second kind of interject here, this is kind
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: of an interesting, I think, little aside. The times that
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I've had, and I have not had many because from
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the top of the show, I was talking about the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: unusual location of this place. alleged. Even with wrist cutting,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I have had people do not know how much pressure
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: to apply. And you know, Dave, what you find many
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: times at scenes, whether it be the wrist or whether
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: it be the neck, you will have what are referred
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: to as stop starts, where they will press the blade
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: in as you can imagine, as I'm sure we all can,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: how painful this is. They don't know how much pressure
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: to apply. And so you will have several attempts many times.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I've seen it on the wrist a lot.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: You know, I remember the first time you told me this.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: It was shocking. It was totally shocking.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and people will try to do it. They don't
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: really know what to do. They might not understand the
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: anatomy of it, this sort of thing. And with the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: neck in particular, if... If you get it right the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: first time, it will end life pretty quickly. But the
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: problem is most people cannot appreciate the depth at which
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: these vessels sit. They are rather shallow, but there's a
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: certain level of thickness here in the neck that kind
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: of guards them. And then how much strength do you have?
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: That's another consideration to facilitate this, not just strength, how
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: much strength of will do you have to do it?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: That's another thing. And what kind of instrument are you using?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And Dave, from what I understand, they found a knife
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: there that is serrated, but it's not like this big, big, big,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: robust knife, is it?
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Right. It's like a kitchen knife, you know? And if
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: you would, for those of us who are not knife aficionados,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: could you explain the difference between a serrated knife and
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: say a butter knife?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure. So Serrated knife, if you just think about, like,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: if you buy a set of steak knives, all right?
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Genzu knife.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Genzu knife, yeah. You think about steak knives. Well, all
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: our friends out there, ladies in particular, if you've ever
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: sewn dresses before and you talk about scalloped collars, you know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: they've kind of got these these little half-moon shapes like this, okay?
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Scalloping on, you know, whatever kind of accoutrement that you're
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: adding to like a dress. The blade itself for a
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: serrated knife is in fact scalloped. The blade, when you
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: look at it, it's not like a saw blade, okay?
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: So if you think about how the blade, the edge
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: of the blade is set up, it comes to a
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: point and then it curves in. And that area is sharp,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you know, in the valley, if you will, if you
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: turn it on its backstrap, the knife on its backstrap,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: so that the blade is pointing upwards. If you look
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: at the serrations very carefully, those little half moon shapes,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: they've actually got, it's a blade within a blade. And
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: then you have the teeth. So if you're cutting through steak,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: a pork chop, or a piece of fish, it doesn't matter.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: It's going to facilitate. And the other thing about The
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: reason serrated edges are so popular for people that are,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: you know, in kitchens and dining and all that is
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: that they don't lose their sharpness, really. Not compared to, like,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: if you have to keep an edge on a blade, right?
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So you compare that to a butter knife, which I
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: found this interesting. My wife's family is from a different
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: area of the country, Missouri. I'd never heard this term.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Call me ignorant. They refer to butter knives as case knives,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: and I'd never heard that before.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Case knives?
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Case. Yeah. Now there's a case knife that makes case
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: knives like pocket knives, but yeah, they refer to it
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: as case knife. And I'd never heard that before. I
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: was like, what is that? You know, a butter knife. Oh,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: forget my ignorance. So anyway, with a butter knife, a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: butter knife itself has, if you look at it, it,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: it has very tiny teeth on it. Okay. It's not,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: those are not meant, even though in my poorer days,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I was certainly forced to use a butter knife to
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: cut me with because i didn't have a steak knife
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and i'd make do but yeah it's got like some
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: of them some of them are absent some of them
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: are absent the little teeth on it but you'll find
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: one uh one area of a butter knife many times
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: it's not very robust it's not highly effective uh to
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: use as uh as a weapon um you could file
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: it down maybe on One aspect of it to, you know,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: if you were in prison and you had a butter knife,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: you know, let me put context to this. You can
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: put a point on it, right? Right. But it doesn't
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: have the ability to do the same damage. Now, when
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: you have someone that is actually cut with a serrated
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: knife at autopsy, when we examine those wounds, you know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: those wounds look different. Then say, for instance, if you've
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: got a folding buck knife that's just got kind of
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a milled edge on it that you have to strop
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: it or stone it or whatever you want to call it,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: the injury looks completely different. As a matter of fact,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: if you take a hand lens, a magnifying glass, and
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: look at it, you will see on the injury, the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: injury itself will have little jagged edges. Sometimes I've stared
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: at it long enough where I can see scalloping. on
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: the injury itself, not just the knife. So those injuries,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: when you see them and you're doing that assessment, you
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: have to try to understand, is this instrument going to
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: be effective to facilitate what your end goal is? And
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: in this particular case, the end goal appears to have
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: been the end of a life of a young mother. Dave,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: when I would assess an injury like this, I think
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that if it is being, if the scene and others
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: that are there trying to sell me on this idea
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that this is in fact a self-inflicted sharp force injury
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: of the neck. Okay. Notice I didn't say laceration. Sharp
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: force injury of the neck. I'm going to go back
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: and assess to see if I have any indication of
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: other markings on the neck. Like, you know, where I
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: was talking about the stop-starts. And they will, just so
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: our friends understand, they will be in a parallel, generally
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: parallel to one another. They will stay in the same area.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: If somebody attempts and they stop, and then they restart
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: the knife is not going to no matter what you
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: think the knife is not going to be placed back
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: on the same spot okay you're just not going to
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: do it it's it's almost like you know how many
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: how many folks have ever been you know used a
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: handsaw and you're trying to saw a piece of wood
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: and it gets out of the groove and you have
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: to readjust it but now in Couple that with this
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: absolute horror that you're engaging in and this kind of
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: skewed view that you have of the world. If I'm
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: absent adjacent injuries here and they get it right the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: first time, you know what I'm thinking? I'm moving away
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: from the idea that this is self-harm. I begin to
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: think about that someone would have pressed down on her
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: in that bed, Dave, with that knife. applying pressure because
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: it takes a lot of pressure and they're going to
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: be fighting against you. Press down as hard as you
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: can and then cut like this. And you're going to
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: have to try to understand what, first off, the length
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: of the injury. That is going from east to west
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: and then the depth of the injury as well. So
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: We think about, when we think about sharp force injuries,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: there's three areas that we do the assessment on. It
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: is length of the injury, depth of the injury, okay?
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: And then orientation of the injury. And so you have
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: to take all of that in. And when you look
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: at it, you think, okay, is this even plausible mechanically?
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: You know, is this even mechanically plausible? Remember, we use
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that term when... when we were addressing Ellen Greenberg's case.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Is it even biomechanically plausible that somebody could do that?
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: And so when you're doing this assessment, you're trying to
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: understand that. I got to tell you, Dave, I have
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of questions regarding not just the injury on
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: the neck, but also these other insults that you mentioned
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: that were up and down the arms.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Well, police had a lot of questions, Joe, because it
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: didn't make sense, all right? The crime scene did not
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: fit the description given to them by Ted Barnett. They
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: also noticed, Joe, that Ted had some fresh injuries, okay?
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: He had a cut on his thumb, and what do
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: we know about knife wounds? If somebody uses a knife, OJ,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you get a cut. The suspect is... Somehow with a cut.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Also, Ted's got scratches on his arms, chest and other areas.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And some of these remarks appear to be from fingernails.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: And these would be defensive wounds from the fingernails. And
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: these are the wounds they found on Ted. So what
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: do police do? And I told you at the beginning,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: you know, they find out things. So, hey, man, how's
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: your relationship with your wife? You know, things good because
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: you just said you were sleeping downstairs. Yeah, but look,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: we just had a disagreement. I was coming up to
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: apologize to her this morning to start off fresh and easy.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: You know what, guys? We're really in love. I took
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: her to Scotland. We had a romantic getaway, rekindled everything,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: just not that long ago. Scotland, yeah. Well, police are
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: looking at this crime scene, and it looks like the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Manson family Christmas happened in this bedroom. So they're looking
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: at Ted. Ted tells them everything's fine in the relationship
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: except for the argument. No, no, no infidelity. No, guys,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: come on. He denies anything like that. Tells them that, yes,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Lindsay and I have had a few issues, but we're
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: working on those things. Communication things. That's what we're working on.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: But everything's good. You know, two kids. They're three married
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: five years, two kids. We're good. Well, while they're discussing
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: all this with Ted, OK. And at this point, they've
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: got him out of the house. They've got him, I'm
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: guessing by now, in a police interview room.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: But a phone call comes in and the detective that's
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: talking to him is worked out of the room. Hey, man,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: come here. I'm talking to this guy. Yeah, we got
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: to tell you something. A lady just called 911 and
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: has identified herself as. Ted Barnett's girlfriend, and she wants
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: us to do a welfare check on him because she
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: hasn't heard from him all day. And she tells our
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: police that they talk all the time. They text constantly.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: And so she is scared to death because she hasn't
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: heard from him all day. And that is really out
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: of character. Detective's like, the guy whose wife died in
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: the shower... who just told us they went on a
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: romantic Scotland trip, who hasn't had an affair, now has
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: a girlfriend, who's so concerned she hasn't heard from him,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: she wants us to do it. Well, hey, go in
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: the interview room, too. Check to make sure Ted's still okay,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: so we can ease her mind. Yeah. That's what really
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: helped this investigation from the police standpoint.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: That's what you call proactive investigation when he's right down
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: the hall.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Make sure.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Hey, Ted, you okay? Yeah. We got your girlfriend on
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: the phone. She's concerned about you. Yeah.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Real concerned.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And, and what's Dave, you, let me tell
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: you something, my friends, I got the best producer in
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the business. This man puts together the best list for me.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I've got to, I got to tell you something, Dave,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I was amazed by what you dug up on this
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: case and this relationship that Patrick has with this woman.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: He does in fact have a girlfriend and, The girlfriend
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: tells the police she believes Lindsay is living outside the home. Now,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: this has all been fed to her by Ted, as
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: opposed to Patrick. Ted, the day Lindsay dies, a girlfriend calls,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: wanted a welfare check, said she hasn't heard from Ted
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: since 11 p.m. the night before. She tells the police that,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: like you said, they talk regularly, which doesn't goes to
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: this idea investigatively that, you know, things are not okay.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: You're not in an okay relationship with your wife if
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: you've got ongoing communications with this. And that's going to
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: be a big red flag. I think that one of
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: the most glaring things, and I want to say this
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: to you, and I want to hear what you have
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: to say about it, because I got to tell you,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: it sounds like foundation has been laid here, because he
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: has told the girlfriend, that not only has Lindsay been
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: admitted for psychiatric problems, he tells a girlfriend that she
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: attempted suicide the previous week. Is that correct?
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, with melatonin. Tried to kill herself with melatonin. Yeah,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not kidding. So the girlfriend here, is somebody who
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: believes she's dating a man who is getting divorced from
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: his spouse. They are not cohabitating and his spouse is
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: undergoing is is she's crazy. She is out there trying
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: to kill herself. So, you know, she feels like she's
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: taking care of Ted in his time of need. Meanwhile,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: as police are now digging into the relationship, as they're
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: going to do, they talk to Lindsay's mom, Lindsay's mom.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: And I found this. Coincidental, you know, you're one of
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: the first. The day we got the name Ted in
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: the Ted Bundy murders, it was because he was at
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Lake Sammamish State Park. Two girls went missing that day.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: One of them was a girl named Janice Ott. And
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: it was Janice Ott who was overheard by witnesses who
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: overheard him introducing. She asked him, Janice, I said, what's
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: your name? He said, I'm Ted. That's where the Ted
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: came from, was from Janice Ott at the state park
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: in Washington.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Oddly enough, in this case, Lindsay's mother's name is Donna Ott.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I just found that so coincidental.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. With Ted and then Ott. Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: What are the odds, right?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: And Donna, Donna Ott tells police, Lindsay isn't... She's not suicidal.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: She doesn't have postpartum because that was what Ted was spinning.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: The postpartum had really driven her to the edge, to
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: the brink. She couldn't be trusted. Matter of fact, guys,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I've covered for her for a long time, man. Postpartum
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: has been really bad.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: What a saint.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I was trying to keep it hidden. I don't want
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: people to look at her badly. Meanwhile, mom's going, no,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: not at all. She didn't have anything like that. Her
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: mom says that Patrick, Ted, had been verbally abusive towards Lindsay,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: that Lindsay was also excited about returning to teaching. She'd
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: been a teacher. And, you know, when you're, you've had
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: two children back to back, there's three in one now.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of time out of the classroom. You're
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: ready to get back into your, you know, that passion
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: you have for teaching. Your children are now old enough.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: They're going to be going to preschool and then on.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: So Lindsay was really looking forward to a full life ahead.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: But Ted was positioning her as suicidal due to postpartum depression.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: And here's one other thing. you know, about this so-called
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: diagnosis of postpartum depression. When he said this to the police,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: the next question that the police are obviously going to ask,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and right you are, they did ask it. I said, oh,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: she's got postpartum. What type of medication is she on?
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: And he said, I don't know. Let me tell you something.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Kimmy and I, my precious wife, we know exactly what medications.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I know what she takes. She knows what I take.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: All right. We're fully aware. And if you're in a
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: position where you've got a wife that is dealing with
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: something as weighty as postpartum depression, You're probably going to know,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: first off, if she's actually going through psychiatric care and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: if they have prescribed her any meds to maintain this. Because, look, dude,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: you're the man of the house. You've got to watch
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: after your kids, too. If you think your wife is
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: suicidal or something, you're not going to have your finger
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: on the pulse of that. I think that that was
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: probably an additional huge red flag for the police in
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: this case, Dave.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: It was so sad, Joe, that, you know, from the
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: beginning of this case, which by the way, this is
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: a new case. This is happening now. Ted is not
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: convicted of murder, okay? It's just, he's been arrested and
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: he's been charged. But again, I want to be clear
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: on this. He's not been convicted. He's not a killer yet.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: He's just alleged. And many people have been accused of
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: things that maybe they didn't do. And there's every possibility
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: that there could be more evidence that comes out that
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: points differently. But right now, you know, Ted claimed he
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: found his wife in the shower with a knife next
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: to her where she apparently ended her own life due
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: to postpartum depression getting the best of her. Even though
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: there's absolutely no proof she had postpartum, there's no blood
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: in the shower really to speak of. There's a bloody
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: mess in the master bedroom on one side of the bed,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: including blood mixed in with dirt from an overturned potted
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: plant that is tracked into the master bedroom. That's what
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: we've got. And we've got Defensive injuries to the victim, Lindsey,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: and injuries on Ted that appear to have been the
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: result of fingernails. Defensive injuries on Lindsey's part.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: And yeah, and let me expand on that just a
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: little bit. Because one of the things, again, that you
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: brought to light, Brother Dave, is the fact that when
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: asked about this cut on his thumb, this guy is
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: saying that, yeah, I cut my thumb playing Ultimate Frisbee. So... Well,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: let me tell you who is going to provide damning
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: information in this case. And again, you can take this
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: to the bank. It's going to be Lindsay herself, because
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: in her last moments of life, I'm sure she's lying
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: in that bed. All of a sudden, this guy that's
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: down in the basement that she's married to emerges in
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: the darkness with a knife in his hand. In those
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: last few moments, she's thinking, I've got to fight to
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: save my children. And when she did, she scratched him.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: And as a result of scratching him, she's going to
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: have evidence under her fingernails. And I can promise you this,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: the authorities that investigated this case, they will have done
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: nail scrapings and nail clippings. Now, I don't know what
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the results of those are as of yet, but if
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I were a betting man, And I am. I'd say, Ted,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: you better have you a good lawyer on hand. I'm
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body Bags.