Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E24 An Interview with Anders Boulanger and Michael A Forman

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Networking Unleashed: S1E24 An Interview with Anders Boulanger and Michael A Forman · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

0:16
Hello, and welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building
0:20
Profitable Connections. Welcome to the show,
0:23
folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're
0:26
listening to the podcast where networking is
0:29
more than just an awkward handshake and bad coffee.
0:32
It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist.
0:36
It's an art and talent you can actually learn.
0:40
Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the
0:43
corner at every event. pretending to check emails.
0:47
Networking isn't just a nice skill to have. It's
0:51
a game changer. When you get good at it, you'll
0:54
wonder why you didn't start sooner. More connections,
0:58
more opportunities, more profits. It's like unlocking
1:02
a cheat code for life. So whether you're the
1:05
life of the party or the just let me just stay
1:08
home and text type, we've got something for you.
1:11
So stick around. Let's turn those awkward small
1:14
talk moments into big wins. Now I've got an amazing
1:20
guest for you today. His name is Anders and he
1:24
is, well, he's a speaker and author and a magician
1:28
and a founder of. Gageified, if I say that correctly.
1:34
I'm going to butcher the rest of it. So what
1:37
I'm going to do is I'm going to allow Anders
1:40
to give you his background, his bio, and we'll
1:44
move on from there. Welcome to the show, Anders.
1:47
Oh, thanks for having me, Michael. When you said
1:49
butcher, usually it's my last name that gets
1:51
butchered, which is French is boulanger. It's
1:55
French for baker, but it looks like boulanger.
1:58
Right. That's right. So, and I have a Swedish
2:01
first name and a French last name. So one of
2:04
them usually gets messed up. So you nailed the
2:06
first name. So that's great. So yeah, Michael,
2:08
you're right. I'm a magician originally. That's
2:12
how I got started. I get when I was five years
2:13
old, I got a little Fisher price magic set for
2:15
Christmas and started doing magic at show and
2:18
tell and at school and got to be 12 years old,
2:22
started doing birthday parties. Then I ended
2:24
up doing, you know, fairs and festivals as i
2:28
grew older paid my way through university i got
2:30
a four -year degree in physics and then never
2:33
really used that degree i just kept on with the
2:35
magic doing conferences and corporate events
2:38
i put a suit on that kind of thing so that the
2:41
same you know my magic evolved and then i got
2:44
uh back in 2007 now i got trained by a man named
2:48
joel bauer who was you know kind of the best
2:50
who ever lived at trade show infotaining meaning
2:53
you're performing as an entertainer in a trade
2:58
show booth but the whole time you're actually
3:00
communicating a message about the company to
3:03
entice visitors to stop to listen and hopefully
3:09
take action and go on a deeper booth journey
3:11
you know at that particular particular client's
3:15
booth right so i started doing that more and
3:18
more and built up our business so we were not
3:21
just me but other certified infotainers that
3:24
work for engageify are working for companies
3:26
like microsoft siemens avb fortinet you know
3:30
billion dollar technology companies that we work
3:33
for and then there's something that came out
3:36
of this where we noticed there were some people
3:39
maybe not as comfortable connecting with people
3:42
maybe not as comfortable working a trade show
3:44
booth and there's so many parallels michael of
3:47
you know being at a trade show and networking
3:49
right like in a lot of ways they're the same
3:51
one in the same And so what we found is we needed
3:55
a training to make sure that the booth staff
3:58
were taking full advantage of the crowds that
4:02
we were attracting to the booth, right? Sometimes
4:04
we'd get a big crowd of people and we'd turn
4:06
them over to the booth staff and they'd go, any
4:08
questions? And they would just walk away. They
4:11
wouldn't engage. So we started creating different
4:15
trainings, whether it's for the... the engineer
4:17
doing the demos whether it's for the subject
4:19
matter experts doing the presentations whether
4:22
it's just you know general booth staff how to
4:25
work a booth and how to stop people in the aisles
4:27
talk with them and and qualify them and and then
4:32
even during the pandemic there was a shift too
4:34
because of course there were no events so we
4:37
were teaching virtual engagement meaning how
4:40
do we attract someone's attention and keep their
4:43
focus on you through a virtual meeting, whether
4:46
you're selling, whether you are just meeting,
4:50
maybe it's engaging your team, that sort of thing.
4:53
So everything we do, it really, really does revolve
4:57
around engagement. And that's what Engageify
5:00
does. Engageify does, that's right. It's a good
5:03
name for it. Okay, so how can businesses maximize
5:07
their networking potential at trade shows and
5:12
industry events? Well, I think for one, a lot
5:17
of people need to, and even including myself,
5:21
need to give yourself permission to be more of
5:24
yourself at a show like that. And for some, it's
5:28
easier than others, right? How people are wired,
5:31
what people are comfortable in doing. But I find
5:34
myself, you know, I kind of flick a switch where
5:37
I know this is what is required in this environment.
5:40
And it does require a great amount of energy.
5:42
So I think there's something about... you know
5:44
finding we call it an engaging personality but
5:48
finding that sweet spot of yourself even if you
5:51
are you know the the classic joke about engineers
5:55
is how do you tell an extroverted engineer from
5:57
an introverted engineer well the extroverted
5:59
engineer will actually look at your feet as they
6:02
speak to you instead of their own of course right
6:05
so but is there a way we can just get a little
6:08
bit more out of you right to be able to make
6:10
these connections because sometimes we have to
6:12
take some chances we have to you know one of
6:15
the the things that we see in trade shows as
6:18
people are walking by just trying to stop someone
6:22
you're dealing with rejection on multiple times
6:25
in a minute potentially right like if you tried
6:29
to actually stop someone walking by and you know
6:32
if we take that personally that's people will
6:35
just like go hide in the closet of the the trade
6:38
show booth right we we kind of can't do that
6:40
so it's that idea of what is this you know kind
6:44
of part of you that you can bring to the show
6:46
that is a little bit bigger than you normally
6:50
are and because of that it's not really you right
6:53
we can kind of almost protect herself and so
6:55
like hey some will some won't so what who's next
6:58
right like just embrace that sort of motto so
7:03
that because there's so many people to meet,
7:06
right? We can't take it personally. So that's
7:09
one of the things that I like to see is just
7:11
people kind of bringing it and bringing that
7:13
bigger version of themselves. Do you consider
7:16
yourself an introvert or an extrovert? I'm definitely
7:20
extroverted in a way. Like I have two kids, one
7:23
takes after my wife, one takes after me. And
7:25
it's very apparent, you know, that seeing the
7:28
difference. I've always wanted to be on stage
7:30
and perform. So I would... pretty much say i'm
7:33
an extrovert in that way so in some ways i feel
7:37
like you know i'm i don't know what it's like
7:41
for an introvert so i always have to remind myself
7:44
that you know it's not as easy you know for people
7:47
who aren't wired that way or don't prefer to
7:49
engage that way okay you know You're talking
7:54
about the booths and attracting attention and
7:57
getting the engaged, the customers or clients,
8:01
potential clients. And there's a plethora of
8:04
booths and there's so many to choose from. What
8:09
do you have that you really have that that extra
8:15
little thing to get their attention? Well, one
8:19
of the things that. you know dopamine is one
8:22
of these neurotransmitters you know what what
8:24
captures our attention is is norepinephrine and
8:28
dopamine so nor norepinephrine is the stress
8:31
neurotransmitter right like this idea that we're
8:33
we're we don't want to put our potential clients
8:36
under stress even though you know if there was
8:39
danger it would take our full attention right
8:41
like that's how that works from a biological
8:43
evolutionary point of view typically we don't
8:46
want to do that right so the other side is what's
8:50
in it for me what is that what is that you know
8:54
the the you focused benefits are there uh things
8:59
that we want to eat right the things that you
9:01
know that idea going back again evolutionary
9:03
so dopamine spikes are typically rewards so this
9:08
is where you go back to the the giveaways at
9:11
a trade show why are there giveaways because
9:12
getting things free makes us for me right special
9:16
we feel good and so typically giving something
9:21
whether that is an experience maybe you know
9:25
some booths you got the classic massage you know
9:28
thing happening of course different giveaway
9:31
items or gifts i i never like to call them like
9:34
you know i like to call them a gift as opposed
9:37
to sometimes people call them you know trinkets
9:39
and trash like let's not diminish their value
9:42
let's let's support their value right these days
9:45
they call them call them swag a lot right as
9:48
the gifts so that's one of the things that's
9:50
going to possibly capture that attention but
9:54
unless you upsell their time and attention into
9:57
a deeper richer booth experience you know they're
10:01
just going to go hey thanks i'm out of here right
10:03
so how you use your interpersonal skills you
10:07
know when you meet that person and connect with
10:10
those people you know if you're able to start
10:13
a conversation and find out maybe where they're
10:16
from, find some commonalities, find some things
10:19
that can unite the two of you, that person is
10:23
probably just going to take it and run. So that's
10:26
where our trainings come in, where we're bringing
10:30
this attention to these skills that come naturally
10:34
to some and some not so much, right? But the
10:36
more we're able to raise the bar in the booth
10:40
to create meaningful interactions. the better
10:43
the chance we're going to have booth visitors
10:46
listen to what it is differentiates the company
10:50
it's going to you know find out why they should
10:52
they should buy what's what is that that marketing
10:55
message um so that's really you know a big part
10:59
of is the dopamine i do have a another kind of
11:02
framework if you like michael about how to make
11:06
what you talk about more engaging would that
11:09
be okay to share absolutely okay so we we use
11:13
it as it's a it's an acronym save you so the
11:16
word save and then just the letter u and save
11:20
you is helpful because if you ever find yourself
11:23
losing the attention of an audience or a group
11:26
of people or one person even this will save you
11:29
okay so i'm going to walk through each of the
11:31
letters so the first s is simple now you got
11:36
to make things simple and easy in terms of the
11:38
language terms of your vocabulary in terms of
11:43
making things. My original acronym was much longer.
11:49
And I was like, okay, I got to like listen to
11:51
my own advice here. So like, you know, this is
11:53
only five letters. So, you know, it's better
11:55
than it was before, right? So how can we simplify
11:59
using, again, acronyms, alliterations, rhymes,
12:03
you know, making your messaging pithy. and and
12:08
interesting right so that's that's one thing
12:11
all too often we're working in an industry where
12:14
we have the curse of knowledge and we tend to
12:17
lose people because we assume everyone knows
12:20
what we know right that's right and so that's
12:23
that's a dangerous place so making sure everything's
12:26
simple the a is for authority and that authority
12:31
is Not just like I'm important, but the idea
12:35
that this information is coming from a place
12:37
that maybe you're an expert. Perhaps it's how
12:41
you talk about this information. And I'll give
12:44
you a quick example, Michael. If I was talking
12:47
about what I'm talking about now, Michael, and
12:51
I was going up in my intonation all the time,
12:53
I wouldn't sound very credible, would I? It would
12:57
sound like, are you asking me a question or are
13:00
you telling me, Anders? I'm not sure. right so
13:03
how you carry yourself how you're dressed lends
13:08
to that authority right we it's it's like we
13:11
a doctor who's not wearing a white coat who's
13:13
wearing doctor is wearing a t -shirt and sweatpants
13:15
we're going to go ugh right like we're not going
13:17
to want to listen to them right so that authority
13:21
piece is you know setting yourself up for success
13:24
in that way okay so so the simple so simple a
13:30
is the authority V is for varying the senses
13:34
or visual auditory kinesthetic. Michael, I know
13:38
you've probably seen all kinds of personality
13:41
assessments and ways of slicing and dicing how
13:44
people operate. One of the ways the learning
13:47
styles is the visual, seeing, auditory, hearing,
13:51
kinesthetic feeling. And so when we actually,
13:54
when we talk about something, talk about something,
13:58
that's an auditory term, right? one might be
14:01
able to see the differences in how others speak.
14:04
See the differences, visual. Others speak, auditory
14:08
again, right? And then so the feeling that someone's
14:11
words give, again, feeling, kiss, text. So mixing
14:14
those up allows you to almost shotgun blast being
14:19
relatable to more of your audience. If we talked
14:23
for a while, Michael, and you were on my podcast,
14:25
we'd be able to pick up on each other's... typically
14:29
with their preferred modality, which is a highfalutin
14:33
way of saying, what is your preferred sense,
14:36
right? And you're watching me, we're on this
14:40
virtual call, you see my hands moving all over
14:43
the place and I talk pretty fast. That is a hint
14:46
that I'm a visual person. So you would probably
14:49
talk about things being crystal clear or how
14:52
does this look to you to engage me? But because
14:55
we're at a trade show and we're talking to so
14:57
many people, If you use multiple senses in your
15:01
language, you're going to engage everyone, basically.
15:05
We're kind of getting everyone on board. So it
15:07
makes it more engageable, if you will. That's
15:12
not a real word, but I'm going to use it in this
15:14
case. That's right. So that's the S, the A, the
15:17
V. The E is emotional in save you. And emotional
15:24
meaning not we're trying to make people cry,
15:26
but we want to. involve their emotions so that
15:30
they remember the moment right yeah yeah so and
15:37
and we can do that by the way that we are with
15:40
the rapport that we have with that person right
15:42
if someone's in tune with you they're gonna feel
15:46
your feelings as well right so perfect example
15:49
is one of the things i do in my trade show presentation
15:52
i'll have a picture of a frustrated man pulling
15:55
like pulling his hair out kind of idea right
15:57
and i'll say how many people feel like this in
16:00
your current role right and then people raise
16:03
their hands and we haven't even talked about
16:04
why but he's got this problem he's got a problem
16:07
b problem and c problem how many of you saying
16:11
people can relate yeah and i'm seeing all these
16:13
nods of heads i'm saying it like oh what a pain
16:17
right here's this frustrated guy you got this
16:20
happen and everyone's going yeah so they're they're
16:23
with me and i'm meeting them where they're at
16:26
right so or kind of we're feeling the pain together.
16:31
And then as the presentation progresses, then
16:35
it becomes this, but what if there was a way
16:38
that we could X, Y, and Z? How would that change
16:43
how you operate your company, right? And now
16:46
we're getting into a little bit more of an optimistic
16:48
or this asking this question or getting into
16:52
this place in their minds that they're thinking
16:54
about what would it be like if they didn't have
16:56
these problems. and now we're able to kind of
16:58
take them on this emotional journey to like now
17:01
we've got this happening this happening you're
17:04
going to be able to see it all on one single
17:06
pane of glass on the dashboard you're going to
17:08
be able to measure all this and now i can kind
17:10
of ramp up and get excited about it and they
17:13
can get excited with me so when i say emotions
17:16
it's like let people feel things and in business
17:18
we're so you know hesitant to get emotional about
17:24
it everything's all clear -cut data right? And
17:28
so getting emotional with people, you can sweep
17:30
people away with your energy, Michael, right?
17:33
Like in a personal interaction, people like,
17:37
you know, people who are enthusiastic about something,
17:40
right? Enthusiasm is contagious. And I think
17:42
there's something magical about that. Okay. So
17:46
that's what the emotion is about. And then the
17:49
last one, the U, just the letter U is for you
17:52
focused. And we kind of covered that a little
17:54
bit. talking about what's in it for them everybody's
17:57
favorite radio station that's the classic cliche
18:00
right wiifm what's in it for me and so making
18:04
sure that it is focused on their outcomes right
18:07
and so everyone's goes through life wondering
18:09
you know what can i you know what can i eat what
18:13
can i you know like evolutionary You want to
18:16
mate with something, you want to eat something,
18:18
and you want to avoid being eaten yourself and
18:20
being killed, right? So we're always getting
18:22
away from the danger and going towards what we
18:24
want. And so that's the other piece is making
18:27
sure whatever topic content you have, make it
18:31
about what they want or make it about what they
18:34
don't want to happen to them too. Like avoiding
18:37
these pitfalls, right? That'll get their attention
18:39
as well. And so that's our little save you acronym.
18:43
And that's wonderful. I'm trying to place everything
18:48
that you just said with the SAVE YOU acronym
18:51
within the networking world. And it's so close.
18:57
You be authentic, you be present, you listen
19:00
to the other person, you see their reactions.
19:03
Everything is parallel to somebody networking
19:09
in an event. when a trade show is an event. So
19:14
it's just, it's remarkable how you have different
19:18
fields, different career fields here, but you're
19:21
doing the same things because it works. It actually
19:25
works. So that's why I was very intent on listening
19:30
to each one of these letters and what they meant.
19:33
And every time you said another letter, it...
19:38
correlates to something regarding networking
19:41
so it's it's all it's all great it's all wonderful
19:43
and you did an outstanding job you know explaining
19:47
all that um one thing after okay so you've told
19:52
us about the engagement you told us about how
19:55
you get them in at the tables and everything
19:57
what about prior to the event what about prior
20:01
to the the the trade show how would you advise
20:07
your client how to network properly to get the
20:12
most out of the trade show? Well, you know, trade
20:17
show marketing typically is split up into before,
20:20
during, and after the show, right? So you're
20:24
trying to make these connections, find these
20:26
people who would be qualified leads. You know,
20:29
and one thing before I go further, Michael, one
20:32
of the... delineations i made in my mind when
20:34
we were talking about the world of networking
20:36
in a world of trade shows i think in trade shows
20:39
it's a little bit more sales forward meaning
20:43
we know why we're here let's cut to the chase
20:46
let's see if there's a fit right where in networking
20:50
you don't even know who if whether you might
20:53
do business with them or you might be able to
20:55
connect them with someone else and it's a little
20:57
bit more i feel like relationship first And trade
21:01
shows sometimes has a little bit more of a pointed
21:03
focus. I have to tell you, when you network,
21:07
you're always looking to give, not receive. Yes.
21:10
Okay. So with that thought of giving, you're
21:15
constantly giving at a networking event. But
21:17
at the trade show, aren't you giving also and
21:22
not really receiving? Not receiving until afterwards
21:26
when you get them in. then you're getting a little
21:30
interaction. But you're looking to connect with
21:36
them, to give them something, to make them aware
21:38
so they can have that relationship with you.
21:42
Yeah. The reason is we are always working for
21:45
companies at the show who want more leads, right?
21:49
They want more leads. So when I think about giving
21:51
first, well... Maybe they're giving a giveaway,
21:54
but then they're taking a scan, right? They're
21:56
getting that person's information. So that's
21:59
where I mean, it's a little bit more transactional
22:01
at a trade show. It is. But, you know, it's still
22:04
important. Like, I mean, if you want to establish
22:07
long term clients or customers, I think, you
22:10
know, relationship is it needs to be formed.
22:14
really think that comes out of giving first you're
22:16
right as far as the the kind of the before what
22:20
i was going to say is before the event during
22:21
the event after the event you know before the
22:24
event there can be there's email marketing there's
22:27
people you know trying to invite people to special
22:30
events these might be off sites these might be
22:33
places where you can get people in a place where
22:37
their guard is down a little bit more And so
22:40
we see this too where there's more and more of
22:43
these kind of executive roundtables happening
22:46
because if you're selling to the C -suite, you
22:49
get them in a room with a bunch of other executives
22:52
and they feel safe in that environment because
22:57
they're with their peers. And they also feel
23:00
more safe sharing because they're with their
23:03
peers. You have that higher level of trust. That
23:07
trust factor is so important. Know you like you
23:11
trust you, they'll do business with you. At the
23:14
C -suite level, they already have that trust
23:18
level built. And so you don't have to really
23:22
think about that. You can go on to the next level.
23:26
So trust is so crucial in everything that we
23:30
do. But it's kind of like a known entity. Once
23:34
you get involved with the C -suite executives,
23:37
with the networking, with what I do, it starts
23:42
with the C -suite, but then it trickles down.
23:44
What you're doing is that it trickles over. It's
23:48
not trickling down. So what you're doing is such
23:53
a higher level than what I'm doing because it's
23:59
you're getting that instantaneous reaction to
24:03
the person and you're and you actually are getting
24:06
something so you're covering all these different
24:09
things when i'm just doing this one but i'm sorry
24:13
go ahead well no i i i totally see your point
24:16
and in some ways i think two trade shows just
24:18
because so much money is invested in these events
24:21
it's kind of like you're pushing the agenda harder
24:25
than you would because we need ROI, right? And
24:29
so everything is accelerated. Everything is so
24:32
much higher stakes. And because of that, we just
24:35
kind of get, you know, the hurry up offense happening
24:38
on all these interactions and relationships,
24:41
right? Right, right. Very good. Okay, so let's
24:46
take you and your clients, okay? Your client
24:49
being the owner of the trade show. How has technology,
24:55
digital displays, social media, everything together,
25:00
how has it changed the way that you connect with
25:04
them at trade shows and your clients at trade
25:08
shows? Yeah, well, definitely when you talk about
25:12
connecting, you know, the LED screens and the
25:16
eye candy that can be done. you know and you
25:19
mentioned a trade show table it's like these
25:22
are these are boosts that are you know 1600 square
25:25
feet or they could be much bigger i've worked
25:27
in many million dollar plus boosts you know built
25:31
and then the whole trade show becomes like a
25:33
mini city right for for three days but yeah definitely
25:37
the led screens are getting cheaper and cheaper
25:39
so you're seeing bigger and bigger screens and
25:41
what's interesting and i've taken some pictures
25:43
of this is that now the technology is almost
25:47
dwarfing the people so you can have such a big
25:50
screen but such a small presenter that is literally
25:54
overshadowed because it's so bright they're backlit
25:57
and now they look like they're in shadow that
25:59
we're not connecting with the human as much so
26:01
we have to be careful that we don't overpower
26:04
the actual people because bottom line no matter
26:08
how much you click from place to place you'll
26:09
never replace face to face right so So you need
26:14
to, we need to remember it's still about the
26:16
humans. It's still about the people. So that's
26:18
one of the things. I mean, another thing that
26:20
it used to be such a pain in the butt to collect
26:22
lead information. They used to have to fill out
26:24
a form or whatever. And now it's just a bad scanner
26:28
and it's so quick you put it on. So there's some
26:30
things that have streamlined that so that you
26:34
don't have to, you know, either write down the
26:37
stuff for them and take yourself out of the conversation.
26:40
You know, you're able to kind of, or people are
26:42
doing. of voice recordings of the of either notes
26:47
afterwards so after you met the person instead
26:50
of you were head down in your phone trying to
26:52
type notes while you were talking you were able
26:54
to keep face to face eye to eye with that person
26:57
as soon as they leave you hit the record button
26:59
that automatically transcribes your notes and
27:02
you do a data dump of everything you just remembered
27:04
about this person so that they're in your notes
27:08
so when the follow -up happens it can be so much
27:10
more personal so much more relevant right so
27:14
so that definitely you know is is unique technology
27:17
there is also technology we have something that
27:21
we call it crowd metrics and this is analytics
27:24
on the booth so we put sensors in the booth and
27:29
what ends up happening is afterwards you're able
27:32
to then look at where were the best areas of
27:35
the booth or what was drawing people in and being
27:38
able to then optimize your booth further for
27:41
your next show, right? What are the lessons learned
27:44
from this? You know, how many impressions do
27:46
we make? How many walk -bys were there? How many
27:48
engaged visitors did we have? And so from that,
27:51
it's not really helping the interactions of this
27:54
show, but you may be able to take those learnings
27:58
in the next show. No, we need more booth staff
28:00
on this edge because there were so many more
28:03
people there, right? Maybe we're missing out
28:05
on the people walking by. So technology continues
28:08
to evolve. And of course, it gets applied to
28:11
business in all areas. Yeah, that's great. I
28:14
had no idea about those matrix and things like
28:17
that. And I apologize for saying table. I'm well
28:21
aware of booths and the small cities that they've
28:26
become. But you mentioned follow up. How do you
28:30
follow up with your clients? For me, follow -up,
28:35
I use a lot of email and I use a lot of video.
28:40
So you can see me right now. Yeah. And so I have
28:44
kind of like a little studio here and I'll make
28:47
one -off videos for a person. So they are personalized.
28:51
So I have a little whiteboard that I hold up.
28:54
And I would write, hi, Michael, you know, press
28:57
play or something like that. And so they know
29:00
that I made this video just for them. And because
29:02
I'm always making videos. I have two clients
29:04
that do that. Two clients that do that. Yep,
29:07
absolutely. So that's probably how I follow up
29:12
most of the time. We do have, you know, different
29:15
things. We also use a service called Handwritten,
29:18
which is, are you familiar with that, Michael?
29:21
Handywritten, yes. I'm a big one for writing
29:23
thank you notes. And if I'm in a rush, I'm not
29:29
going to handwrite the thank you notes. I'll
29:31
go online and use Handywritten. So yes, it's
29:34
a very good website. Yeah, I really like that.
29:36
And so that has that personal touch, although
29:40
it is faster and more scalable. And so it's one
29:43
of those things where we keep trying to scale
29:47
authenticity, right? Can you really do that,
29:52
right? Or is that becoming authentic if it's
29:55
just going out to the masses? But this is one
29:56
of those ways where it kind of walks the line
30:00
of something that is convenient, easy to do,
30:03
but appreciated on the other end. Okay. Well,
30:07
let me ask you a question. All of this has been
30:10
wonderful. It tells me how well you're doing,
30:13
but I'm sure you didn't get here without making
30:17
any mistakes. what what mistakes generally have
30:23
you made and how could you avoid them wow okay
30:27
almost i we at my company i have a a chief strategy
30:32
officer who works with me all the time and we're
30:34
we're always looking at learnings you know and
30:37
and what what did we learn this quarter what
30:39
did we learn this quarter and i kind of wish
30:41
i had my learning library up right now because
30:43
there'd be all kinds of things that they would
30:45
come up one of the ones that that comes to mind.
30:48
And this is just because we have different certified
30:51
infotainers. So I work for some of the clients
30:53
and some of our other infotainers work for other
30:55
clients. And one of the things I do remember
30:57
learning was that we want to match what people
31:02
have had in the future. So if you have a pretty
31:05
high energy person, whoever they get first, they
31:09
like, right? And it's kind of this thing that
31:11
if you need to, that person's busy and you need
31:14
someone else in their place. make sure you have
31:16
someone of similar quality right let's say not
31:19
quality but similar energy and right and whatever
31:22
yeah whatever people have first they fall in
31:25
love with and so you know that may not apply
31:29
to a lot of people but in in our business you
31:32
know that was something and another thing that
31:34
i remember now that you're jogging my memory
31:37
is giving people too much choice creates that
31:41
you know paralysis by analysis absolutely And
31:45
I remember early on, I was selling one of, well,
31:50
two of our infotainers. And I kind of said, this
31:53
guy's like this and this guy's like this. Which
31:55
one do you want? And they didn't have enough
31:58
information to make the, and it just stretched
32:00
it out. And I stopped doing that. I just said,
32:03
I'm going to pick who I think's best, put them
32:05
forward and go, this is your guy. And it just
32:08
sped up, you know, the sales process so much
32:11
because it was just. So much more clear cut so
32:15
that there is that famous jar jams experiment
32:19
where they had like 20 different types of jams.
32:23
And how many did they sell? And then they reduced
32:25
it down to like six or eight or something. And
32:27
they sold way more, you know, at the same flea
32:30
market. So reducing choice does improve on the,
32:35
you know, commitment. So that would probably
32:38
be my big one. Okay. So let's bring this. All
32:42
the way around. Let's just finish with this one
32:45
thing. What would you give to my listeners? One
32:51
thing that one takeaway that they can take away
32:55
from everything you've said they can use today
32:58
or tomorrow. What would you suggest? So I wrote
33:03
a book and it's called Engage First. It's not
33:06
going to be out till October. So it's still a
33:09
ways away. And that title. is really what we're
33:13
about is that you know it's how to capture attention
33:16
to tell sell and sway and so you really can't
33:22
communicate or sell or do anything you want unless
33:26
people are actually paying attention and so making
33:29
sure that we make an effort to engage you know
33:33
that we actually there's a willingness to to
33:36
to try and and connect with people because so
33:39
many people are living in their own world right
33:42
now they're head down shut down on the phone
33:45
how do we get them to get be head up and lit
33:47
up right how do we you know bring our more of
33:50
ourselves to the moment be present and engage
33:55
with these people and kind of get back that that
33:58
human connection so i just want to leave them
34:01
with these two words engage first fantastic there
34:06
was anders that was perfect now If somebody wanted
34:10
to get hold of you, either they want your services
34:13
or be coached by you or even just to contact
34:17
you to say hi, how would they do it? Well, definitely
34:21
you can check out our website and it's Engageify
34:23
.ai. I'm going to spell that E -N -G -A -G -I
34:29
-F -Y. And the AI is not artificial intelligence,
34:33
by the way, Michael. It stands for authentic
34:35
interactions. That's what our AI stands for,
34:38
okay? So you can go on the website. You can reach
34:40
out that way. On LinkedIn is probably where I
34:43
hang out socially the most. So it's LinkedIn
34:45
slash Anders Belanger, all one word. I'll spell
34:48
it again. Spell this part too. A -N -D -E -R
34:52
-S. B as in boy. O -U -L -A -N. G -E -R. It looks
34:58
like Anders Buhlanger. Okay. So that's, you can
35:02
reach out to me there. And of course we can DM
35:04
and set something up in a call or whatever. So
35:06
yeah. Thanks for having me, Michael. Appreciate
35:08
it. No problem. And I'm glad to have you. And
35:11
this has really been entertaining the first and
35:16
foremost, but I learned so much about what you
35:19
do and how you do it and the importance. of what
35:23
you do. So thank you very much for coming on,
35:26
and I'll speak to you soon. Thanks a lot. Well,
35:31
hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let me just
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-U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap,
36:50
folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
36:53
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
36:56
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
37:00
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
37:03
with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
37:07
perfect. It's about being present. So take what
37:10
you've learned today, get out there and make
37:13
some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
37:16
episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
37:19
a review and share it with someone who could
37:21
use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
37:25
the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
37:28
Spotify, YouTube or my website. Michael A. Foreman,
37:33
remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep
37:37
connecting, and keep building those relationships.
37:40
This is Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take
37:43
care and happy networking.