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Katie spoke with business owner Mario Tsirbas about his concerns around implementing the vaccine mandate · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It is just after ten thirty.
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  Speaker 2: Now we've been contacted by quite a number of businesses
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: who are quite concerned about this mandate.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: We know that it's kicking in.
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  Speaker 2: Weill Friday is the last day that people have got
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  Speaker 2: to be able to get that first vaccine, and then
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  Speaker 2: obviously it kicks in from Saturday. Now. As I've said,
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  Speaker 2: I know that I've had a lot of business people
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  Speaker 2: get in contact me with me with their concerns, whether
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  Speaker 2: they are actually against getting the vaccine themselves or whether
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: their employees don't want to get the vaccine. However you
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: look at it, it is going to have an.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Impact on them.
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  Speaker 2: We did catch up with Greg Ireland, of course from
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  Speaker 2: the Chamber of Commerce a bit earlier this morning, and
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  Speaker 2: he had said that there's really you know that we're
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: not really going to know just how many businesses this
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  Speaker 2: is going to impact until we actually until we get
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: to the weekend, I guess, so we'll have a better
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  Speaker 2: idea by then. I know, you know, I've even just
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  Speaker 2: had a message from another friend who has a business
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  Speaker 2: who said that you know that they're in a situation
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  Speaker 2: where they've just sort of been informed that it's not
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  Speaker 2: only them who needs to be vaccinated, but those that
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  Speaker 2: enter their business as well. So there's still a lot
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  Speaker 2: of confusion I think for a lot of people at
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  Speaker 2: this point in time. But there are a group of
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  Speaker 2: business owners who have put together a bit of a campaign,
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  Speaker 2: I think, it'd say, to try and make sure that
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  Speaker 2: their voices are heard. Now, one of those business owners
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  Speaker 2: joins me on the line right now, and it is
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  Speaker 2: Mario Serbers.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Mario.
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  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.
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  Speaker 1: How are you yeah, really well mate.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you very much for taking the time to have
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  Speaker 2: a chat with me this morning. I know we've had
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  Speaker 2: to move it around a couple of times due to
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  Speaker 2: this press conference, so I appreciate your flexibility.
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  Speaker 3: No, thank you for giving us the time. Lli. As
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  Speaker 3: you said, we are a group of about four hundred
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  Speaker 3: businesses at the moment, and that's been put together over
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  Speaker 3: the last two weeks basically of independent businesses who don't
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  Speaker 3: know where they stand. They see things at the moment
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  Speaker 3: as really stemming from fundamentally a lack of leadership. They
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: are are saying to us that this has been poorly
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  Speaker 3: thought out, it's been poorly rolled out, there's been no consultation,
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  Speaker 3: and frankly, you know, leadership is all about having a
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: vision and bringing those people along with you, and that
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  Speaker 3: certainly hasn't been the case so far.
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  Speaker 2: So Mario, four hundred businesses. Do they sort of range
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  Speaker 2: in scale from small to large.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, we have all sorts of sized businesses. We have
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  Speaker 3: those with you know, twenty thirty forty employees, some with more.
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  Speaker 3: We have those who are one man band, and they're
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  Speaker 3: all saying the same things. Fundamentally, they see this as
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  Speaker 3: an issue that's going to affect them across the board,
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  Speaker 3: not just themselves personally, whether they're vaxed or unvax But
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  Speaker 3: as you said before, your friend, if your start aren't
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  Speaker 3: fully vacked, have concerns. No one is taking that into
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  Speaker 3: account and that has flow and effects for the businesses.
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  Speaker 3: Another thing that hasn't been brought up, Katie, is that
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  Speaker 3: the mandates force us as business owners to discriminate. They
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: force us to discriminate amongst our staff and amongst our
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  Speaker 3: customer base. You know, anyone who's of indigenous heritage's class
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  Speaker 3: is vulnerable, regardless of their vaccination status, regardless of their
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  Speaker 3: physical health, and that has huge implications and ramifications for
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  Speaker 3: every business in the territory. So you know, there's a
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  Speaker 3: lot of anger and concern just on that one issue alone.
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  Speaker 2: Mario, Can I ask and you know up to you
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  Speaker 2: how much detail you go into from your business perspective.
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  Speaker 2: I know that obviously your family owns a few businesses
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  Speaker 2: from my understanding, but do you have any idea for
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  Speaker 2: you sort of what percentage of staff are unvaccinated and
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  Speaker 2: what impact it's going to have for you sort of
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  Speaker 2: come the weekend once that that mandate kicks in.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so across the board in our businesses, probably around
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  Speaker 3: forty percent and not back and ate it. So that's
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  Speaker 3: having huge implications across the board for all our businesses. Wow.
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  Speaker 3: Now we are lucky enough that we have been able
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  Speaker 3: to look at the actual text of the mandates and
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  Speaker 3: try and come up with a plan to not have
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  Speaker 3: to sack any of our staff. Mind you, Katie, you
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  Speaker 3: know we're a local, family owned business. We've been in
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  Speaker 3: business here for over thirty years and we've got staff
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  Speaker 3: that have been with us for five, ten, fifteen, coming
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  Speaker 3: up to twenty years. Those conversations where you have to
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  Speaker 3: look someone in the eye and say sorry, mate, you
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  Speaker 3: know I've got to force you to take something you
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  Speaker 3: don't want to take that you have honest reservations of
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  Speaker 3: and no one is giving you the time of day,
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  Speaker 3: but come Friday, you're gone. That's a tough, tough conversation
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  Speaker 3: to have. And it's not just my business. This is
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  Speaker 3: every single one of the businesses in our group and
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  Speaker 3: others who are reaching out day by day saying the
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  Speaker 3: same thing. Maria.
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  Speaker 1: I know that.
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  Speaker 2: I asked the Chief Finister yesterday, like if he's concerned
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  Speaker 2: about this actually sort of pitching business owners and employers
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  Speaker 2: against their employees.
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  Speaker 1: Does it feel a bit like that at the moment.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I wouldn't say it feels like that. Every single
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  Speaker 3: business owner who is part of our group has all
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  Speaker 3: said the same thing, that they want to protect their
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  Speaker 3: staff and they're scrambling trying to understand how they can
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  Speaker 3: work within the Choe fifty five mandates and still keep
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  Speaker 3: their key staff. So no one in this town is
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  Speaker 3: trying to fight against their staff. Staff is so hard
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  Speaker 3: to find at the moment, and it has been traditionally
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  Speaker 3: in the territory. I mean, you've had plenty of conversations
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  Speaker 3: over the years about the lack of skilled labor and
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  Speaker 3: getting good employees. So why are we trying up this roadblock. Now,
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  Speaker 3: there are other ways that we can deal with this.
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  Speaker 3: No business in Darwin wants to see COVID coming to
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  Speaker 3: their premises or amongst their staff or their families. But
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  Speaker 3: this blanket mandate is not the solution. And there's been
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  Speaker 3: no consultation and this is something that makes people very
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  Speaker 3: scared and angry. And if we want to talk about
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  Speaker 3: a health crisis, the mental health crisis is the real
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  Speaker 3: emergency at the moment. We've got people who are about
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  Speaker 3: to lose everything that they've worked years and years for.
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  Speaker 3: They're losing staff, We're seeing families fighting with each other.
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  Speaker 3: Who's talking about the increase in the potential suicide rate,
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  Speaker 3: the family violence rate. You know, look at the social
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  Speaker 3: unrest amongst our communities. All this has done is create
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  Speaker 3: division when this is the time we should be coming together.
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  Speaker 3: We are the territory. We are clever, we are resourceful,
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  Speaker 3: we know how to find solutions. This blanket band doesn't
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  Speaker 3: provide that option for any of the businesses in our group.
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  Speaker 2: Mario, has the government communicated with you, will heard any
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  Speaker 2: of the concerns that you guys have raised, Because I
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  Speaker 2: know that it'd be really easy for them to just
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  Speaker 2: sort of go, oh, no, we don't want to hear that.
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  Speaker 2: You know, these people are anti vaccine. But have they
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: actually made any effort to try and hear from you
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  Speaker 2: guys and those businesses that are part of this, you know,
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  Speaker 2: this initiative.
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  Speaker 3: No, they have made no effort to make contact with us.
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  Speaker 3: I would say that it's been encouraging because personally, I'm
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: a member of other business groups, the more traditional groups,
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  Speaker 3: and it's promising to see that they have started engaging
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  Speaker 3: with business in a more concerted way. What was really
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  Speaker 3: disappointing was, I think it was a couple of weeks
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  Speaker 3: ago you had the Master Builders Association and a couple
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  Speaker 3: of others basically come out and say we have heard
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  Speaker 3: nothing from the government. For them to come out and
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  Speaker 3: talk like that in public shows the level of contempt
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  Speaker 3: this government had for business and business owners in this town.
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  Speaker 2: Mario, I know that there's going to be some people
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  Speaker 2: listening this morning saying, you know, Mario's just anti vaccine
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  Speaker 2: and the peaceeople on that group or anti vaccine. What
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  Speaker 2: would you say to those people listening this morning who
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  Speaker 2: are thinking that, So.
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  Speaker 3: What I would say is, we have no position on
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  Speaker 3: the vaccine itself. As a group, we are a mix
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  Speaker 3: of vaccinated unvaccinated, one jab, double jab, however you like
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  Speaker 3: to phrase it. The issues that we are raising around
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  Speaker 3: the lack of leadership, the fact that we're forced to discriminate,
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  Speaker 3: that there's wild inconsistencies in the rollout of this mandate.
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  Speaker 3: You know, Katie, I can be sacked tomorrow and the
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  Speaker 3: next day I can come back to the same business.
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  Speaker 3: Does the virus know my employment status? Is it that
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  Speaker 3: clever that it can tell whether I'm an employee or
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  Speaker 3: a customer. There's so many inconsistencies. The other thing that
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  Speaker 3: isn't being spoken about, which is a real concern for
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  Speaker 3: our membership, is the mental health situation. There's a real
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  Speaker 3: breakdown in people's emotional state and that's going to have
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  Speaker 3: repercussions not just to but for a long time to come,
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  Speaker 3: and no one is speaking about that.
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  Speaker 2: Mario, We're too from here for you and the other
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  Speaker 2: business owners and other people who are really concerned about
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  Speaker 2: the situation and wondering what's going to unfold come the weekend.
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  Speaker 3: Well, our group is all about supporting, educating, advocating for
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  Speaker 3: and also looking at all the legal aspects of these mandates.
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  Speaker 3: So for our group, it's about providing as much information
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  Speaker 3: and support as we can. We're also fairly well advanced
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  Speaker 3: in looking at a legal action to try and declare
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  Speaker 3: these mandates unlawful. So I would encourage anyone who has
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  Speaker 3: concerns to reach out to us. We have our Facebook page,
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  Speaker 3: United Empty Businesses, we have our website, United Empty Businesses
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  Speaker 3: dot org. We are here to provide as much support
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  Speaker 3: as we can. We don't discriminate whether you're vaccinated or
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  Speaker 3: I'm vaccinated. That is not our concern. Our concern is
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  Speaker 3: to provide support to empty businesses that are doing it
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  Speaker 3: tough and for those who unfortunately will close their doors
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  Speaker 3: come Friday. All we can do is provide as much
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  Speaker 3: support as we can. Whether we can find alternative employment
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  Speaker 3: for them within our group where the mandates do not apply,
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  Speaker 3: that's something that we're looking at. So it's a difficult situation, Katie,
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  Speaker 3: to be honest, and there's going to be a lot
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  Speaker 3: of victims out of this. Mario.
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  Speaker 2: Look, I know that some people are going to be
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  Speaker 2: listening to this this morning and they're going to give
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  Speaker 2: me shit for probably, you know, not being harder on
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: you or not having a crack at you, or they're
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  Speaker 2: going to give me stick like they have been doing,
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  Speaker 2: saying that you know that I'm on the other way
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  Speaker 2: and I'm pro vaccine, and look, I've had the vaccine.
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  Speaker 2: I'm very happy to wear my heart on my sleeve
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  Speaker 2: and say that and say that I am pro getting
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  Speaker 2: that vaccine. But again, I will say to you, you know,
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  Speaker 2: what would you say to people out there this morning
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  Speaker 2: who are thinking to themselves, no, you are just anti vaccine.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'll give you my personal position, yep. And this
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  Speaker 3: is through my own research, on my own understanding and
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  Speaker 3: how I see the lay of the land. If you're
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: vaccinated or unvaccinated, I don't want to know. That's your
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: personal decision, and that's how it should remain. We should
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: not be forced to check people's papers when they come
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: into our establishment. We should not be forced to have
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: to show our path to get a job or to
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  Speaker 3: go to work and feed our families every day. What
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  Speaker 3: we should be doing is looking at solutions that actually
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: target the vulnerable and those who are in a position
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: where the vaccine may be the best solution for them. Now,
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  Speaker 3: that's my personal opinion, and as far as the membership
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  Speaker 3: of our group. Like I said before, there's people who
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: are vaccinated double JAB, there's people who have the single JAB,
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: and there's people who aren't vaccinated. And we do not
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: have an official position on the vaccine itself. What we
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: see is what these mandates are doing to business people,
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  Speaker 3: to their staff and their families. We're talking about real
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  Speaker 3: people here, Katie, not statistics, real people, and it's devastating
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: to see the effects of these mandates on them.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Mario, I really appreciate your time this morning. I
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: appreciate the respect that you've given to us and to me,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: and we appreciate your point of view and articulating that
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: for all of our listeners.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie, and I'd like to thank you as
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: well for giving us a chance to speak up for
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: those who at the moment don't have a voice or
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: are too afraid to speak up. So thank you again, Mario.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: We appreciate your time. Please let us know how you
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: go following on from the weekend as well. I'd be
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: keen to catch up again and get some further detail
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: that would be great.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Thank you.