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Bonus Patreon Release: Elena Ivanova! With Jorge Gonzalez and J Kosmic! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grey Mulk and Lane Patreon channel where we get to talk all about characters that deserve a lot of love, but don't often get it.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about a character who has been living in my brain since the late 1990s.
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the character of Elena Ivanova, who is a character who was explored in one series and one series only, and that was Maverick.
• 0:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: uh, book that I read and loved in the 1990s.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I recently got to have the incredible hurricane Gonzalez on this show.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jorge is here with us.
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jorge is the writer of uh, of uh, uh, the Maverick 12 issue series.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm invited my friend Justin Cosmichuck back because another key part of the Maverick series is the character Chris Bradley or Bolt Justin and I did an episode on Bolt O'Wild back, which was a ton of fun.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we got to revisit Maverick in this particular series.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So let me welcome you both.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jorge, I would love to begin with you here to let everybody a little about yourself and how you got your start in the X-Men office, my friend.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: How I put fairs from youth, friends, kid, of all stories, went to the Cooper School from there and then up at Ballyant Comics.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you guys remember that.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Exxomania War, whatever, it was like a whole maze by the other guys where we were like the bullpen there.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: So it was just an amazing experience.
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: When that all imploded, I ended up at Rukeli Corbesey, editor-up Marvel, ended up at the ex office.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's how I ended up landing.
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, everything I did at Marvel, the short time I was there was for the ex office.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I was going up as a big giant ex-bing fan.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: It was awesome.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: Unfortunately, it was like a kind of a dark time, not Marvel, you know, during their whole, uh,
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Bankruptcy shifting editors a lot of kind of painful things and people everyone I talked to from that era kind of has a big like you know like this was the judge the job that we love that it was so deeply painful I know there was a lot happening at the time.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: I grew in walls past away.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: I remember what I was saying.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't get to work with him or mean about I know my editor Kelly was a big fan of his you know like it really felt like an end of an era and like Kelly would tell me like his office
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: every day.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: So it was kind of a very bittersweet experience.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: And just a weird time at a totally with some of the stuff that was going on there to in terms of how Maverick started.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they had commissioned me to do a Black Knight series of Enders Black Knights series.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: And at the 11th hour, they, I think I'm going home for Christmas for two weeks.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I like, no, we want to do a Maverick.
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: You have two weeks basically to come up with something.
• 2:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, so it really had to dive into this character who really had very little backstory, there wasn't much to go on.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: The Chris Bradley character had come up in the X-Men on Limited issue, where he was introduced and Elena also inherited from that Nov. 1 shot and those two issues of Wolverine, which he was introduced, really interesting character.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's very cool that I was just like, wow, we're showing her some love on this.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: When you have to build out a supporting cast for a character, we're gonna delve deep into it which is fun and I'm really happy to have you here.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I hope it's been really fun for you to revisit your writing on this series.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now this series lasted 12 issues.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of assuming you plan on it going longer but 12 issues is still kind of a good solid run especially on a character who's relatively unknown.
• 3:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember if you have a lot of plans beyond what we got to see?
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: I did.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: I had a whole second year kind of in my head.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: And it's a shame that it was just so frustrating.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I guess I'd always weird because Maverick was a character.
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: It was like an odd place for them to do a book for him.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: Because it was at the time that Deadpool was just taking off.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like they already had like a Mark character.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like they had the other, you know, it was a tough cell.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we got noticed that our book was canceled.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think it was issue five, maybe if she's six was coming out when we were already told we were canceled.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like we never had
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: never even got a chance to build an audience, but definitely did have some ideas of where the things were supposed to go, you know, the way things ended, I mean, obviously had to tweak then those last couple of issues, and there was fillings, but to me, John, that's where we had a backup story.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: But basically, Navrik was going to be in Russia for a while, and we were going to explore all that.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: He was going to hook up eventually with Excalibur do a whole.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Basically, a time travel thing where we go back in time, hooks up with
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: I was a big fan of the invaders growing up where we would learn that matter experience were not Nazis.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: In fact, they were like pretending to be Nazis, but saving Jews and other refugees spaces, which would leave for went to when Navargot back into the press to kind of give them a sense of purpose.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: that he would be one who would help others like Chris Bradley, you know, like he would be sub-e helping mutants.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: And the idea would be, well, one, while he's spending all this time in Europe, the friends of humanity would have found Chris Bradley again, but thanks to Elena, they would have been able to get away and gone into hiding, eventually hook up again with Madric, where they would set up, again, almost a such sanctuary for these mutants that were being hunted down.
• 4:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: that's where things were leading to kind of set him up as that are to kind of differentiate him from Deadpool and kind of again they already have the work with the mouth who shooting people by Harris was not comfortable with these books or for kids we don't you know like with the with all the guns and the killing and so it was trying to kind of scale that back a little bit on fabric and because of his almost dying with the legacy bear at that virus I mean more of a
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: And that Elena would have been a part of him finding his humanity again.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Also, we would have seen a scene where with the whole and data staying where my needle feels not very apparent at some point thinking they're not to set up a future.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: Some future stuff with with Magneto, if the book heck it going.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So with some great ties into X-Men continuity, absolutely.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to delve into this with you.
• 5:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me also welcome my friend Justin back to the show.
• 5:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Justin, how are you?
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are you?
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's good to see you.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good, I'm glad to be back.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me again.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Always, always.
• 5:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Revisiting fabric after we did the Chris Bradley episode, switching perspective is a little bit from kind of a whiny Chris to very determined Elaina.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Was it fun for you to go back to the series again?
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was unfamiliar with this character at first, like prior to looking at researching Boltova, our shameless plug for the Bolta episode when I was looking into him, just gave me a chance to familiarize myself with Elaina as well as the Maverick series.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will admit I didn't read it before up until we were looking into Bolton, having a fresh take on the series kind of makes me appreciate like the characters as well as the stories.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is something I missed out on previously, so I'm glad I was able to check it out and support.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: What I do appreciate about these deep dives on lesser known characters are their potential, and hearing your take on what could have been what the characters as well was interesting,
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Alaina, there's so much potential, it's just a matter of somebody taking it on after the title.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's about eight pieces that we need to introduce to make this series make sense.
• 6:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to cover a lot of this quickly, but then Jorge, I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on it.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've taken a, you know, step back in time.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wolverine was a really popular character from 1975 on, but Claremont gave us that first Wolverine mini series, which is what really propelled this guy into kind of a rambo action hero style with his crazy hair.
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then he launched the solo series, which has basically been running ever since in 1988.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Larry Hamlet took over the book shortly after that.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: So a Chris started with kind of Wolverine and Madre poor.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: We get the patch stuff.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then Larry Hamlet starts giving us Wolverine all over the place.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: There is weapon X crazy deep dive.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's evil robots.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's pirate adventures.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's space adventures.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's interdimensional extra-dimensional law firms.
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's all kinds of crazy stuff going on all over the place.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And by the time we get to 1991, this is when Claremont's officially leading the book and the X-Men volume two book has been relaunched.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is an era where we really get strongly, and it'd been going on for a little while obviously at this point, but Wolverine getting explored in his own book and in the X-Men book.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the mythos are building on each other, because Wolverine's origins were so deeply mysterious.
• 7:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Was he actually a Wolverine that got mutated into a real thing?
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Was Sabre tooth his dad, where did he come from?
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was a soldier, he was a ninja.
• 8:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's all these different parts of his past that are weaving together, and the mystery of him is really interesting.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: In 1991, in X-Men Volume 2, we first get that illusion to a team X, which shows Wolverine as a mercenary, with some memory implants, he's dressed along with Sabre Tooth and a new character that we meet called Maverick, and they have a deep history fighting other mutants such as Omega Red, who is also introduced around this time as a deep cover agent.
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Omega Red obviously has gone on to have a huge life of his own Maverick has had his own life as well, all four of them are mutants.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maverick is this kind of mercenary and a gold mask who carries guns, but he's got, he's also got powers a little bit like gambits, where hey, do you want to talk about Maverick's mutant powers?
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, again, I wish we were doing it at the time when, like, his powers were not really fully defined.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, it seemed to, depending on where he appeared, it was kind of nebulous.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: So how to kind of, again, I like, I need to know exactly what are these powers?
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: So we used the opportunity of killing him and bringing him back as a way to let's define these powers in a specific way, especially in a way that we get him away from sitting guns.
• 9:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Because I believe one of the powers that had even hinted at originally was that he could tell the future like he could see, and then that was just kind of dropped.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: So again, it was just kind of all over the, you know, they had nothing.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: It is
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you made it more of a kinetic energy kind of thing, the absorption and redirection, very similar to Gambit and Bishop, but it has been his own unique way, but it's not the first scenario thing, right?
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, very much so, and I thought it was a, again, something that could be easily understood.
• 9:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it's a great, and it's a great power set, and we've seen him, you know, very affectionately explored by other creators along the way.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Maverick's another character with very mysterious backgrounds.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wolverine over saturation kind of begins at this point.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: He goes from that kind of 10 years of like being a real strong like action hero fan favorite to now He's in everything.
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Marvel in the early 90s.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's Wolverine, Venom, and Ghost Rider who are on every cover all the time as well as of course Spider-Man
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also have the implementation of kind of image comics really shifting the industry, Marvel and other companies are not really giving creators rights to the characters that they're creating, they own the characters wholesale, characters are showing up in movies and the creators of the characters are not seeing a dime, and some of the younger artists and the older writers and artists were getting pretty frustrated by this and image comics launched as a result.
• 10:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in the late 90s, Marvel then tried to do Heroes Rebord, which is its own giant journey, where onslaught is the story impetus that takes place.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Professor X and Magneto's evil rage baby creates a whole new universe along with Franklin, Richards, and a blue ball.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And all the characters disappear and get revamped in new worlds by people like Jim Lee and Rob Laefeld and Will's Protasio and others.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: During that time, there's a void in the books and Marvel launched a bunch of new books by some storied creators like Mark Wade doing K-ZAR.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we have other books like the Thunderbolts showing up here.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of the books in the line that was given a lot of love at the beginning was Maverick.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thunderbolts is really the only book from this era that really made it.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here's for hire was another one.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was picking up all the books at this time.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: The creative energy was really fun.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was really flowing.
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Madric was a book that I really loved.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so one more thing I'll introduce very quickly.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also have the AIDS virus running ramp in.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: North Star has come out in the early 90s.
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they kind of quickly into it that he has HIV or AIDS.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Chris Bradley is a character that receives the legacy virus from his first appearance, and it's very much a story related to the idea of what happens when an innocent person contracts this disease that they did nothing to get, right?
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the legacy virus is a direct parallel for the AIDS virus, and a lot of characters are dying.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Iliana Rasputin has passed away as an innocent child.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some of the characters that we really love have contracted the virus and are learning how to live with it.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Others like old-time characters like Mastermind are passing away
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's spreading around, we're seeing it impact a lot of our characters.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had no idea really that it was an AIDS allegory at the time that I was reading, but when you revisit, it's very clear.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And at a certain point, we learned that Maverick has the virus.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not only does he have the virus, he's living with it.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's affecting his mutant powers.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he has a storyline in his arc where it goes into remission a little bit.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: and he gets to live with full access to his powers, but he's also mentoring young Chris Bradley, who is a teenage boy with these powers, whose family has been targeted by the friends of humanity, because he is in a small town, and they don't like people with AIDS there, is the allegory being told.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of really fascinating topics that are kind of weaving in and out before we even get to Elena Ivanova.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I know I just threw a lot of the wall there all at the same time, but the mystery of Maverick's origins, kind of the nooness of him, the legacy virus itself, and the heroes reborn relaunch all kind of weaving in to create this title.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or I don't know if you have any comments on the kind of launch of all of this.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: If it's all very less dramatic.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, that this was not something that they, you know, that was planned with a character that was kind of all over the place at that point and all these things that were going on in the, in the Marvel Universe at the time, even the legacy virus aspect of it was tough because the ex office had no idea how that was going to play out in editorial.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like there was no plan like even like so you so your lead character has the virus, but you can't do any seeking a cure, you know, because because they don't know what and yeah, and they don't, and you don't want to step on any other create, you know, what are the planning and the action on the book, so they don't know yet.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Were you familiar at the time of the writing that it was an allegory for AIDS?
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know Kelly Queryock, as an example, as a queer editor, there must have been input and conversations about that.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to talk about the editorial decisions at that time or what those conversations were like?
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that was wonderful.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was amazing.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not about the show.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's such a gentleman, just wonderful guy.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I haven't seen him in years as a super nice guy.
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel very fortunate that he was my editor.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: Because just, again, super supportive.
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: And we did have these conversations because he was very clear.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the X-Men has always been all our cast, but it really speaks to the LGBT community specifically.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: I just mean even remember Kelly actually me when turned in the stuff I guess it was in the in the back of for Chris Bradley because it sounded like they were talking about in coming out and aids and I'm like yeah, it's kind of because it is what it is.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, so we were we were very aware.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: that that was what we were dealing with and that that was the audience, you know, or or section of the audience.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like that's why that again, that was part of what as a kid when I was growing, you know, like they worked those conversations.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: There weren't any role models, there weren't any like you, it was an unspoken, it's a different world now in terms of what the visibility that the community has.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: comparing the complexity of the storylines that are running together in Maverick.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I compare the ideas you must have been having about Dane Whitman, the Black Knight, who is a bizarrely complex character, would like ties to the old Camelot stuff, but also he's a super scientist, and also he has this evil dark.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Darshane.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's very crystal, like they're the mess of it all.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that would have been a fun book to read as well.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I didn't even get very far in that before I was kind of like, which in a way, I mean, I'm a big Black Knight fan too, but Maverick is probably more of a real house just because of the X-Men connection.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, I've been reading the X-Men, like I don't even want to do the math, but what is busier, you know, whatever it is, I love those characters.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're in happy to see there's still impactful.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Black Knight is a very messy character, but we love a mess.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Justin, are you a Black Knight fan?
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or did you enjoy reading any of the heroes' reborn stuff?
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thunderbolt was one of my main titles for Heroes Reborn.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: As for Black Knight, I like this choice in women.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Big Cersei fan.
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Crystal's amazing, too.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You got to love a messy crystal.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's one of those characters where it's like, you love to hate her, but you're still rooting for her.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh, I don't love to hate her, I just love her.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think she's amazing.
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll say, when we had Erica Schultz, she did bring up a few good points about Chris or it's like, wait, no, she is kind of a brat, but I still like her.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: I like her too.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's classic, but she does.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: She has had interesting love life choices.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's fantastic.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's the most real housewives of all Marvel characters in that thing because there's a few out there.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to write a real housewives reality showing the mojo versus one day.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Crystal is for sure in the group.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be delightful.
• 16:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to talk about the character Elena Ivanova, who was created by Larry Hammett and Mark Texiara in 1993 in Wolverine 67 and 68.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Omega Red is running around.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a serial killer mutant weapon who's been weaponized by the government, who basically say we can cure this death sport virus that used to murder people with this carbon medium synthesizer thing that you need, but it's been missing for decades.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's doing all these crazy missions.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Super fun character, super complicated character.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Omega Red has been lost to the Soviet Union, as well as their operative Mikhail Rasputin.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll see the episode we did on him earlier this month.
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the Russians have sought out another mutant to make their new weapon.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: They have found a blonde man and a red suit that they call Epsilon Red.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So not Omega Red, but Epsilon Red.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Quote, referencing his powers or his suit.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: The suit maintained a vacuum inside.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: They changed him so that he could be a genetically engineered astronaut in every sense of the phrase.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was altered so that the nothingness of space could be his natural habitat.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the surface of the earth full of pressure and dense gases was as deadly to him as the depths of the ocean are to us.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: So they've given him powers, you assume he's a mutant, but also they've made it so that they're dependent on the government force survival.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've been talking all about Russia in the comics all month by my show.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So people are familiar at this point if they've been listening.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hearing this, it makes me wonder how the ocean would be for him.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, as long as he has a suit on, I don't know.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he could live in hydropolis for those that know what hydropolis is.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so in the comics, we reference back to 1968, and the Russians are rushing to get their new, the Russians are rushing.
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Rushing to get their new cosmen not offered on the moon before the Americans.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll see the super-ape episode that I did earlier this month as well, which references that to me.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And this is an odd story to piece together with exact detail because Wolverine has side blockers on and you're not exactly sure what his memories are and also you don't really know what Epsilon Red's deal is, but apparently he's immune to can breathe in outer space and he's been turned into a weapon.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he's got a suit with tentacles on it because if you have the name Red, you have to have tentacles.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: and he's but equipped with some kind of weapon, and he has a pregnant wife that he can no longer touch now because of the suit.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Wolverine is sent on a mission by another government into Kill him, but then Saber Tooth comes in and says that the orders of change, so Wolverine leaves, and then Epsilon Red asks Saber Tooth can you kill me, but instead Saber Tooth slashes at the men's pregnant wife because, you know, Saber Tooth is going to Saber Tooth, and she dies, but her baby is born through a sea section.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: So
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is giving very the last of us, right?
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's the little girl at the ta-vae who's like, mom is bit by the zombie, then she's bored and so she has immunity.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, so this baby grows up to be Elena Ivanova, who's now a Russian operative as an adult, and she's a talented telepath who seems to have kind of a lot of empath abilities as part of it.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So she's this gorgeous blonde and in this story she brings Wolverine in and goes deep in his mind and she finds that a bunch of his memories have been altered because this is before we know his origins clearly by either others or by himself and his own trauma and he thinks he's talking to Epsilon Red because of this telepathic vision she's giving him and then he thinks that he releases Epsilon Red into space but also it was Elena projecting every
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: everything, maybe, but also maybe epsilon red went to space.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, it's hard to tell exactly what the truth of this story is.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: But she ends up getting the intel she's looking for.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: She looks into Wolverine's mind, and he shows her that Sabre II killed her mother, even though Logan was not there.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now Elena knows as an adult.
• 19:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I have to go after Sabre II.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: So divide you get very quickly about this character is that her powers activated while she was in the womb, which is very rare because she went through this extreme trauma.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she has this kind of replaying memory of her mom getting slaughtered in her brain.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she's trying to get justice now as an adult.
• 20:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a quick set up to this story.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: The episode and read of it all is kind of confusing.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: A Jorge, do you have memories about revisiting this story?
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or even working with Larry Hanna, who, of course, is an incredible story, teller.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he is.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I didn't get to work with him.
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: So it was basically I'm reading the books and getting the content from just from the stories.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: it was tough because like you said it was really the start of them starting to play with Wolverine's backstory and the implants was all very confusing because like you said you couldn't what stuff is real what stuff is not so it was hard to teach from there what exactly the reality was but what was clear I mean Elena a very tragic character like it's just crazy that she's got this primal like this memory from birth of her mom getting that's really got a scar you for life
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it would have been a gag to see here return in a story like Saber Tooth board, just seeing a lot of Elena's character was seeking vengeance for the death of her mother at the hands of Saber Tooth.
• 21:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, Saber Tooth board did feel like something where they wanted Wolverine to deliver that final blow.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: but they brought birdie back and a lady did not come back yet.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's April 2, the ones slaughtered birdie and she's back in the books now.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you know who knows?
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there's hope for a lady in the future.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Is she back to the club?
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: On Chicago, whether there's a thing called Resurrection Protocols.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there was like a queue where they were bringing characters back one by one.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Birdie, Birdie, we got to see a handful of times during the Cricula era.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's a playable character again.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because a lot of people, there's some love given to her.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we jumped to 1997 and there's a Maverick one shot.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's his first one.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's called Maverick in the shadow of death.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is Larry Hama and Wolfred Santiago.
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in this story is where we get to see Maverick having nightmares of the day that T-Mex fought a mega red back in the past.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's twisted up in his bedsheets.
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And here's a blonde woman in a white dress and heels enter and he draws a gun.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Justin, if I read Elaina here, will you read Madric?
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can do a German accent if you want, not required.
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll try my best.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: That my Russian is terrible, but here we go.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Handle?
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody calls me that.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: That name is as dead as my past.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: How did you get here?
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who are you?
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And how did you know about Nord?
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry if that sounds Russian.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's very, it's very, I don't know what that is.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I love it.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like vaguely Irish and French perhaps.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some sort of Europeans.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I am Elena Ayanova, Ivanova, and I am a side talent.
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was an agent of the former comic thought.
• 22:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go-soul-bowler's death, no way.
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Besoul, it's the C, it's the KGB.
• 22:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And a product of the same program that produced a mega-red and epsilon-red.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I read your dossier quite a thick one, which is, of course, her flirting.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: KGB.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Side talent, you put that dream in my head.
• 22:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, all I did was change the ending.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's no safe way to go rummaging through another person's mind.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Without damaging memories, I'm going vaguely British now.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I need your memories because I need your help in locating sabretooth, she says.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: You want help from me?
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess my dossier hasn't been updated since the CP self-destructed in the Kremlin or you would know all about this.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Maverick pulls the bandages out, bandages up his face shows his scarring.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's got the legacy virus once again, and he puts his mask on.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: She says, oh my God.
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: not a pretty sight day.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the final stages of a legacy virus infection.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some days, I can't even get up.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: The booze helped some, but mostly, it's just a world of pain.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: How am I supposed to help anyone?
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: What kind of help do you want?
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Revenge?
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Honey, when you are looking, the Reaper dead in the eye.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Revenge doesn't seem so important.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like a waste.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she says, no, when I, when he says, honey, I just, honey.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the legs of ours, right?
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: We, we got it.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: and she says, save her tooth killed my mother just for spite to cause my father pain.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been hunting him for years and when I find him, I will kill him.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: By the way, do you know that there are two people watching this room even as we speak?
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're beyond tell, I have to deal with staying on top.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have to deal with staying one step ahead of old-slithery digits across the street.
• 24:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean, I'm beyond hell?
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just what I said, revenge is eating you up faster than the legacy virus is eating me.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: The virus is just eroding my body.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: What you have is devouring your soul.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So John Rathens here.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a mutant named Castro who can teleport.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And a mega rat is here.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: They go running for it.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maverick and Elena do and they get to Elena's car and she shares her story with Maverick.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so you want all the, how do you say gory details, eh?
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then you shall have them, all the sound and fury plucked, psionically for my mother's brain while I was in her womb.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And encapsulated memory that nested in my subconscious until puberty gave full blossom to my powers.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: The word blossom in a, in accordance with puberty is a weird, when he's been uncomfortable.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: See it through her eyes, hear it through her ears, feel it through her body and she hits Maverick with a psychic blast and makes him like feel what it was like getting murdered by Sabretooth, which is a pain she's living with every day, which is a defining thing for this character.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you sense me kicking in your belly?
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you see him?
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is Logan and he's come to kill your husband.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was delivered by C-section just as my mother died on the operating table.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was born with the sigh and memory of my own mother's death imprinted on my brain.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've had many setbacks on my search for my mother's murderer, but I intend to make you lead me to him if it's the last thing I do.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So they rushed into a Canadian military base, Elena shields their presences from the guard, and she displaces her powers like this leave her pretty weak.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So she doesn't have a ton of stamina as a telepath.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: They escape on a helicopter with John Ray, they learn more about it, make it red, they go to the old weapon, ex-facility, where the carbonating synthesizer has been stashed.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about about another time.
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Maverick warns Elena about what happened to Bertie at the hands of Saber II.
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: He loves the telepath.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He wants the telepathic given that little glow that makes him feel high, is addicted to it.
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he slaughtered Bertie when she betrayed him.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when a mega red attacks, Elena hits him with a side vision of his last murder victim, which of course he loves.
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's going to get off on that.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's going to get hard on the process.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then they trap a mega red inside and they blow the building up behind them.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Elena then chose to aid Maverick instead of going after Creed right away, because she sees an opportunity to join an ally.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a pretty strong story.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good Elena story and it sets up Jorge what you get to work with to follow.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So talk to us about setting up Maverick's supporting cast.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: He has a fence who's a single mom.
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's got Chris Bradley, and he's got a later Ivan over.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, an interesting mixture.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought the whole Lena thing was fascinating and because they do become an almost a symbiotic kind of, they need each other.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: They're the sign of connection.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: They make having shared that bond, especially once he dies and comes fact that it becomes clear that there's someone now tied.
• 26:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a man who knows the threat she's looking for.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a desperate man who has no one.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think she thinks he's hot all at the same time.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yes, yes.
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I do think they inevitable ends for Elena would have been death at San Francisco.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's how that would have played out at some point inevitably.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: So she seems she can't let that go.
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: The possibility that Maverick would be the one who would save her in that regard to like, take her off that vengeance that she's on, but I always thought that that would fail, that she would save her to for certainly not going to let her again, that they eventually that that would end ugly.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: For listeners, Jorge is going to have a double dose on my show this week.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's also going to be in main episode where we talk about the Colossus Bloodline story.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in that I get to ask Jorge a lot of questions about your use of Russia, your creation of the characters like I have in the terrible and hammer and sickle.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we won't go deep into that here because we get to cover it on the main show.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jorge is very much playing in the sandbox that Colossus comes from and is setting this kind of post cold war Russia as one of the primary locations in the in the series here.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Hammer is a Boris Lubov sickle is Nikolay Varonsky.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: They once belong to a band of pillaging gypsies who spent their days wandering around in caravans through much of central and northern Europe.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: While still in their teens they were enlisted by the Russian mafia.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Ivan Pushkin known as Ivan the Terrible to join his organization.
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: after their camp was decimated by the Turkish marauders.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So now they're these sexy muscle assassins basically representing the working and political classes of Russia with their symbology.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they kill a cello player named Frashwal Perego and Elena knows these people from her time at the KGB, right?
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we don't know about her connections to Alexi Bhajan, who's the leader of the KGB, but she's an agent, a mutant agent of this organization and knows a lot of the big players as a result.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: which would have explored that whole rocket rush a connection a lot more.
• 28:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: If the book had gone obviously, especially Ivan Pushkin was being set up, maybe I have to remember that at the time it wasn't the Soviet Union.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: I really just collapsed, though those oligarchs were really kind of taken over and running things.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: Pushkin would have been like a king-pain character, or anyone who would have fired a lot of these like XKGB into his army of thugs to his operations.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a lot of the huge void of power, absolutely.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, we don't love to have explored at some point.
• 29:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, Elena would know, hard learning.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, there would have been some connections there.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: So we don't love to have explored that further.
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we also meet Isabel Ferguson, who is Maverick's tech recently, the OTA, his secret spy organization.
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: She has a daughter named Madeline.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we open on the series with Maverick basically in the final stages of the legacy virus.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: But his
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: his powers research and he gets his kinetic energy deal which kind of puts the the virus a little bit into remission and this is where the series starts which makes Chris Bradley of course very jealous but let's talk about Chris more and the Chris Bradley episodes ago go listen to the bolt-up episode for more on that
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're here, if you want to hear that, it's out on the main show.
• 29:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have a good time.
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, cool, cool.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: We see Hammer and Sickle show up in an attack.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: They want to recruit Maverick and Elena to work for him.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elena's driving, a getaway car.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: They meet up with Isabelle.
• 29:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Ivan himself shows up.
• 29:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in issue two is when we meet a character named the confessor, who's a KGB assassin, named Yordie Mended Medvedive, who uses like religious weapons, like exposing rotary, rosary beads, and he's a man from Maverick's past.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to talk about the creation of the confessor?
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing you've had some serious Catholic guilt that you needed to work out.
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't we all, if you're Catholic, that's fun, that's what that is.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, just the imagery obviously is just super interesting and a lot of the shadow church was used in the Soviet Union and stuff.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I thought that would have been interesting to explore.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: The confessor would have been, I forgot what issue it was that there's an issue that
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: when never goes to Europe and he hooks up with someone that he knows that's the confession that's who it's supposed to be the confess we would have found that out again that would have been come out in a later issue giving him a more of a personal state in the in the rivalry between him and Maverick
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's kind of trying to set that up and setting up, you mentioned, you know, in terms of these odd elements of, you know, Alina and just Bradley, you know, almost like a found family for Maverick was what would have that had become it is about would be part of that as well.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: to see Ivan using Elena to invade Maverick's memories.
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you get to use the smart device to explore Maverick's kind of tragic past.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: We learned he was once married to a woman named Jeanetta Luchia about Salini.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: We learned all about his interactions with the very creepy, evasive character of Major Barrington.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And also we learned about his best man Jean Luchivant.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: It turns out his wife was an assassin and he and Maverick killed her while she was pregnant.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we get this kind of odd connection where his wife, his betrayed him as died, but he's also lost a child.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So now, Pushkin is sending Maverick to kill Barrington.
• 31:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Farrington's another conversation.
• 31:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's some weapon-exconnections with this guy.
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of an elusive one.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when we moved to Issue 3, Elena has been killed that held captive by Pushkin for about 13 days.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Isabel Ferguson rescues her.
• 32:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elena's briefly overwhelmed by the full return of her psychic powers because the dampers are off.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she gladly turns her power on this evil kind of torturing guy, Dr. Langstrom.
• 32:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: When we go to issue 4, Elena and Madric have saved Chris Bradley from the Friends of Humanity and Elena sees Wolverine who recognizes her as well from her KGBDs, so there's some more old connections for this character.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elena uses her powers to make the crowd think that the mutants have died in the battle, which is very professor-exof her.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, actually, she gives closure.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Professor X just erases the memories.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then she's still looking for Saber to, but she and Maverick end up fucking.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, this is purely a physical thing.
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: We both need this.
• 32:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And despite the fact that he has the legacy virus, she doesn't seem afraid of that at all.
• 32:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Justin, would you fuck Maverick?
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: girl.
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in issue five and this is my single favorite Elena's story, we'll take a moment on this one and the Jorge I'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maverick finds Elena right after they've slept together researching Saber Tooth and he's pissed.
• 33:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: He accuses like he basically says you only fuck me to get my help and she slaps him right across the face and then just we read this dialogue with me it's so good.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, jeez.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I deserved that day.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: You sure did.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You'll have to part in my overly suspicious nature.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a knee jerk reaction.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But under these circumstances, can you blame me?
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you cut me some slack?
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Knowing your history, sure.
• 33:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: This one, all at its slide.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh gracious of you.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: don't get cute.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just because I know what mindset you're coming from doesn't make your words hurt any less.
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought we'd gotten past the garbage.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought never mind.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I'm sorry Elena, but don't presume to have me all figured out.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you really knew where I was coming from, you'd know that Islam is Janetta's ghost, keeps ringing, it's ugly head, it's downfall, ever fully trust anyone ever again.
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And while we're on that subject, it should come as no great surprise to hear that I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: about my past in your head.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like it one bit.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you think I do?
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that why you're copying such an attitude about my going after Saber 2?
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're you afraid he'll find a way to pry your dirty little secrets out of me.
• 34:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe you are so dense.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or have you forgotten what I told you about Burdy.
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: The last alpha class site talent to try to take out Victor Creed.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Before she was killed by Creed's own father, Saber 2th Ballinger 2 is will and forced her to serve as his personal slave.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: using her psionic abilities to quail his private demons.
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't pretty and I don't want the same thing to happen to you.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some dates are worse than death.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm willing to take my chances.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's crazy but it's still my choice to make.
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not denying that.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: All I'm saying is if you're not wary, this revenge is gonna cloud your objectivity and blind you to the obvious.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Make you careless and then you're gonna play right into Creed's end the way you fell for Ivan the Terrible's machinations.
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a cheap shot.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Was it meant to be just making a point?
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're telling me that if the opportunity presents itself, you're not going after Pushkin, that's different.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Pushkin may be laying low for the moment, but he'll come gunning after us again eventually.
• 35:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't say the same about Creed.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right now, he's got no reason to mess with us unless we mess with him first.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't know that for certain, and who do you think you're fooling?
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Pushkin found your Achilles heel and exploited it.
• 35:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now you want to hurt him back.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's that simple.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Face and fabric, I'm not the only one on the room who's chasing after shadows.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's getting stuffy in here.
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need some fresh air.
• 35:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you going?
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where does it look like out?
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he slams the door, throwing just a little fit.
• 35:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when he comes back, after he's gotten into a bar fight with the blob, because that's what happens.
• 35:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: You go off on your own.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's ready to apologize and promise to help her against Saber Tupilated and Lane is gone, as well as other stuff.
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: leaves him a note, Madric finally got a solid lead on creeds whereabouts.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want you to feel you owe me anything, so I've decided to pursue him on my own, take care of yourself, and please don't try to follow me, Elaina.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Sabritooth's she learns is with X-Factor.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a little device in his brain and they're making him work for the government, which must just pocket piss her off.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this soap opera, super hero stuff, is so good.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're, hey, I love the people I liked.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: She sleeps up.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: You only did this for your own purposes, while he's a little
• 36:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was awesome.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: That was awesome.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: I always felt like these are two very wounded people with so many guards up due to their circumstances.
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like my take, I always thought when they first met, it was clearly just interested in using him to get disabled tooth, but that changed, you know, and by this point it has changed.
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: And for him, again, cards up, you know, isn't going to admit, you know, it's going to make a lot of himself to be vulnerable in that way.
• 36:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: So they just had some expecting breakfast and bed, but instead she worked on the computer.
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when we jump to Issue 6, Elena's off on her own, she wakes up with the nightmare of her mother's death once again in her brain.
• 36:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Sabertooth, he's been hanging out with X-Factor, has just killed the Russian defector, Gregor Kokoshka, the one who has given Elena Intel on Creed in the first place.
• 37:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So now she knows like he's on to her.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she doesn't have a lot of other contacts in America.
• 37:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Creed sets up a bomb inside this Gregor guy's body.
• 37:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he didn't kill Gregor.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: He let him let him alive in a trap, excuse me.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, it leaves a bomb there.
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maverick finds it, Creed setting the trap.
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elena's in a gas mask in a uniform, and she goes hunting for Creed in the tunnels.
• 37:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's literally walking through toxic waste.
• 37:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: She finds a corpse, and then Saber Tooth attacks.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Justin, do you wanna give us your best Saber Tooth voice?
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will try my best.
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Save your bravado for someone without hyper keen sense as babe, you don't fool me, I could smell your fear a mile away.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Shut up and she thinks he's right, adrenaline pumping over time, I can feel my heart racing stomach and nuts, breathing, breast getting shallow, get a grip, no matter what happens, I have to remain calm, stay focused.
• 37:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here garbage creed, a bloodthirsty butcher with no regard for human life, I'm putting an end to your wretched existence once and for all.
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's no, you and what are me?
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: You smud peace of filth.
• 38:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you really think you can keep slaughtering people and get away with it?
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why not?
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's all like anyone can stop me.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: You should have died with your mother a long time ago, girly, because it's high time I rectified that.
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: She leaps it or claws out and she runs and he's growling and calls her a stupid wench and says, Oh, make you wish you're never going to be bored.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's running down the stuff.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we blasted all self-preservation mode is making it difficult to get the concentrate.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've got it backwards, Creed.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of put some distance between us so I can focus long enough to hit him with a full scale scionic blast.
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a small burst will hold him back.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: but it doesn't work.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, no good.
• 38:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have an over-inch you heard.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I no longer need to glow to stage eight my homicidal urges.
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wolverine cured me when he popped his cloth through my noggin.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go back to my noggin story.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's it will go there another time.
• 38:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's no use running doll.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: No matter where you go, ultimately you're mine.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: and he gets her and again they're in waste and he knocks her mask off and then Maverick gets there and he finds Elena and her closer ripped and she's literally lying in the toxic waste with Sabre to the grabbing her hair.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Continue's an issue seven.
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is crazy intense drama, fight seed, again soap opera at its best.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maverick is fighting Sabre tooth until Elena wakes up.
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: You shouldn't have come here David.
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is strictly between me and Sabre tooth.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: You were absolutely right not to want to be involved.
• 39:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: She says this is my problem.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's my fight mine alone, and I aimed to finish it on my own and he calls her stupid and stubborn You know, it really tickles my crawl how often playing possum trick actually works now this time You unholy monster.
• 39:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's taken me 23 years to track you down, and I'm not wasting the opportunity Let's see how you like it when I fry your brain to mush and matter gills Atlanta no and the captions tell us focusing years of pent up
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: frustration and grief-stricken rage.
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elana Ivanova mercilessly hits this homicidal mute with a full-scale psionic blast.
• 39:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Her intent is to shut down all his primary brain functions by fusing his moral relays, which is a badass for a telepath.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: To do that, she must first penetrate Saber Tooth psionic defenses, primitive, yet effective mental barriers affected by the fiend himself to prevent just the sort of tampering.
• 40:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he's put up some psychic blockers, basically.
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: A precaution deemed absolutely essential after repeated encounters with side talents exposed his vulnerability to such attacks.
• 40:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elena thinks he's fighting me, forcing me to expose myself to him on a psychic level if I'm going to have any hope of defeating him and the captions.
• 40:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And though this is the first time Elena has ever attempted such a stunt.
• 40:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Her resolve as well as her confidence in her abilities.
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: is unwavering as she projects an astral image of herself and embarks on a perilous journey through the astral plane into the dark recess as a victor creeds decidedly disturbed subconscious.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we give you to see this pink astral image who goes and savor tweets brain and finds very young victor.
• 40:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is what you see when you go and savor tweets hide.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's the little kid, he's chained to the wall, there's rabbits around him, his father's locked him in a cellar, and she recognizes that Creeze's trying to lock her out of his mind.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elaine is overwhelmed by the river of blood in his mind, and the images of all of Creeze's victims, and she sees her mother's face in his mind as well.
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here remembers her.
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: The captions tell us, in her current fragile state of mind, coupled with her extensive injuries.
• 41:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: The unexpected shock of seeing her mother's visit in this twisted hall of horror's
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: The encompassing wave of revulsion that suddenly permeates her soul is so all consuming in its raw, unfettered fury, that the tenuous astralink between her and Saber II that instantly violently severed, resulting in a massive cyanide backlash.
• 41:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So she and Creed and Madric all scream out because the telepathy overwhelms them, Madric realizes that he and Elena are now psychically linked, and the backlash weirdly boosts his powers, and in this power outburst, Creed is knocked away and gets to wash down the sewer, basically.
• 41:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Maverick then finds Elena, shattered, dying, falling into a coma.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in the next issue, we see her getting medical treatment.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: The coma has been related to her trauma.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Her mind has retreated in on itself after all that's been going on.
• 42:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she's in a coma in issues 9 and 10 and 11, while Maverick goes on adventures.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: In issue 12, we see Chris Bradley sitting on her side.
• 42:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's still in her coma, but when Maverick is in danger, she does scream out.
• 42:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And her last words that we see on the page are,
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maverick, which is basically what she said, but she had sex with him too.
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: So she's still in a couple out there.
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what's a like to get this story, this massive, crazy battle between Elena and Saber tooth in the subway tunnels.
• 42:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: She was way it over her head, no matter how prepared she thought she was.
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: Totally, I love, I had forgotten, like, what a freaking badass.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: She liked that she has, like, what balls?
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: like where you like I'm trying to think about there's not because it's always you know saber to the Wolverine you see a lot not a lot of characters that goes she can save her to that that takes a certain kind of crazy and the admission on the page that like he's a character who has built psychic blockers because he's fought silock and jingray and professor x-son
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was I was just going to say that this fight almost kind of felt reminiscent to the siloq fight both of them both being telepathic trying to take on Creed both are overwhelmed in the end and siloq gets gutted and Yeah, birdie gets murdered and Elena gets knocked into a coma
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a 242 that he's he's the worst, but also amazing, so there's a ton of potential for this character, not only in her backstory and her connection to other characters, but her levels of sitalin, her ester liabilities and just this untapped potential of her as an agent as a spy as a superhero, there's a lot to explore.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really like this character and her tragic ending just kind of breaks my heart.
• 43:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's still out there stuck in this state.
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember some of the things you may have done with this
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like that would have done, if I thought, if you've gotten that next year, would we see her come out of the coma or do you think you would have left her there for a while?
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that moment was her coming out of the coma, based on that.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, when she, when she says, mmm, maverick.
• 43:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 43:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that would, that's, yeah.
• 43:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's breaking up after sex, basically.
• 43:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a badass character.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's great.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I, I mean, I fell in love with the character.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, because again, it was a character that almost kind of inherited.
• 44:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: This really cool character, you know, that was created as, you know, like when Larry Hama creators was probably just like a throw week, just a one story, but it's like, no, this is really kind of interesting and really fucked up back story, you know, like that works very well in the X-Men universe.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's a shame that again, I would have loved to see others explore her character, you know, in this situation way over her head.
• 44:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: After looking into this character, I kind of left me with more questions, and I mean that in a good way, and kind of circles back to that potential she has, like, if Victor were to inevitably return, what Elena, or should she be given more of an opportunity to go beyond getting revenge on Saber II, or with Maverick back in the folder things as well, because we saw him returning Krakowa, could we see characters like her or bolt again, just because, again, there's so much more we could do with her, right?
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Both of course goes on to join the new warriors and then he poses as Maverick, who is posing as Agent Zero and then Agent Zero kills Maverick.
• 45:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Maverick, it kills Chris without realizing it's him and that Frank Turing was next series, it's heartbreaking.
• 45:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so tragic, all these characters.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, they all end up, you know, everyone has a lane I've never seen again.
• 45:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Maverick really hasn't been seen a lot, even, you know.
• 45:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maverick's actually been used quite a bit recently.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Benjamin is a long run on Wolverine through the Krikoa era, and he uses Maverick quite a bit, actually.
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was never accidentally being used in selling in a meds Wolverine series as well.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was referencing.
• 45:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, we see this character.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of backing his fun loving kind of mercenary era where he's just kind of doing things for profit and betraying and making the call to be a hero at just the right times, but you know Wolverine can't quite trust him.
• 45:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like the friend that'll betray him for profit kind of energy So he's he's he's had some love in recent years.
• 45:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: Happy to hear that.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Just a matrix for these show under the radar
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: you know, that I'm surprised.
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we were so blessed to have Jimmy Chan on art.
• 46:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: It really is beautiful.
• 46:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: A big time page is coming.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like Christmas.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: You're like, you know, it's like, ah, this is gorgeous stuff.
• 46:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's been no regrets.
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's been very little mention of any like his backstory still intact.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just barely dawning on me by the way.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: You launched this book in the late 90s right after that enormous Mel Gibson hit Maverick from 1994.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I almost wonder if Marvel thought if we put this title on the book, we'll like a bunch of Mel Gibson
• 46:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is so funny.
• 46:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't thought about it until just now.
• 46:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say her and she needs to start a support group, specifically the disposable telepath syndrome, along with birdie, Astrid Bloom, just all of them, just because there seems to be this pattern.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: The telepaths, these lesser known telepaths, starting in a more known X character solo book, only to end up dead or in a coma.
• 46:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they just need to team up and start a support group.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Whenever I do these episodes, I think of stories I'd like to write.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a character that I think could deserve a feature role.
• 47:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: But one interesting, even if it's just a one-off story, is she's still in the coma, but her astral projection is still out.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're almost like the ghost with unfinished business.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my goodness.
• 47:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she of course can't kill Sabre Tooth, but she does something really fuck with him.
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like something really dark and twisted that really meant to him.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then kind of passes on.
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that would be an interesting story where she gets her final like ha ha fuck you man.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we see her like rejoin her mom in the next life kind of stuff.
• 47:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: But the weirdest part of this character is where we open.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: What the fuck is Epsilon Red?
• 47:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I still don't know.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she know her dad is he floating out in space, maybe there's the story that we need.
• 47:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who that guy is, the weird one.
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: In all seriousness from the support group, if Elena were to appear again, I'd love to see her or I could see her appear in a black widow book, because, well, first of all, Russia, but it does make the most sense.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could specifically see her with the winter guard, although their relevance, as of recently has been tied to the black widow because of the MCU.
• 48:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: In the Maverick book near the end, I'm going to remember here.
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: But for long-term listeners of my show, go look at my recent episodes on the character Blind Faith, or Lexi Garnoff, as well as a Lexi version of the KGB director.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Elena fits in with either of those characters really interestingly.
• 48:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also have an episode on Ersa Major out this month where there's another mutant who has been all over the place.
• 48:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elena could very seamlessly fit into any of those superhero teams as the team telepath.
• 48:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Although Blind Faith is another version of that telepath, who has kind of more professor ex-like abilities.
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's some potential here.
• 48:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: She has some really interesting places that she could occupy.
• 48:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also like the idea of her and Yelena being in the same book and that you constantly getting mixed up.
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yelena, Yelena Belova and Yelena Ivanova.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 48:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe we can bring Belva, the cow lady over.
• 48:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll just make it a whole book.
• 48:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it can be a Nova book.
• 48:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elena and Ova, Bova, Elena versus Cassandra and Ova, yeah, we thank you, all kinds of potential.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, hey, how many concluding thoughts on what it was like to revisit this character?
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks back a lot of home memory memories, honestly.
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: You're working a vacuum sometimes and you don't.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: on so many years later this scene.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that someone this made to your podcast.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, take this and I would love to see that character, Papa.
• 49:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: Elena have a new life.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have been all over Marvel's Russia from the crazy conversation about the Rasputin family with who are hey over on the main show.
• 49:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: X-Men liberators, Earth's a major, the super apes.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ed, where will we be ending the month on the main show?
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a problem.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Piotr Rasputin.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a joy to kind of visit these concepts.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was a whole journey educationally that I had no idea I was even reading in the comics.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, Russia in the 60s in the comics versus Russia post-Cold War are already wild story differences.
• 49:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I hope it's been joyful for everybody to explore the complexities.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: What a joy.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: A Justin's always wanted to hang out.
• 49:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, Jorge, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 49:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Twice this month.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's so good to see you, my friend.
• 49:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Likewise, thank you for having me.
• 50:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: As we're wrapping up, I'd love to hear in a final thoughts.
• 50:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where can people find you both online?
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything you want to plug for July 2025?
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go over here and then just then.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Really have nothing to plug at the moment.
• 50:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm currently working on something going to Instagram again with a friend of mine.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm very excited about Labor at Love's.
• 50:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: soon to chat about it, but very excited about it.
• 50:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: So again, your timing is wonderful in terms of just reminding me of the joy of because I really had a lot of fun about it.
• 50:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: From now until September, I do have a few cons happening locally.
• 50:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will be sharing the assortment of cosplays.
• 50:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, I won't be making it to an canny or the states anytime soon just because I
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have to say other stuff, but I'll mess you about it.
• 50:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it'll be sad now.
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to meet in person again, just because hanging out, you know, in Salt Lake, I always enjoy coming down to Salt Lake, like the last couple of times have been good.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you've been a great host and I'm man up in Canada.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, fingers crossed, you're always welcome.
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can primarily be found on Instagram at J.
• 50:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Under Score Cosmic that's cosmic with the K. I am most active there I do have blue sky.
• 51:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing but without the underscore and I do have a Patreon that I have been regularly posting to as well So yeah, I can be found on those three locations primarily.
• 51:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Lastly, I have Jan Anderson I keep my own social media private because I got kiddos the two of you are welcome to follow me just
• 51:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ask, but if you'd like to follow the show, Grandma can underscore lane on Instagram.
• 51:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: In August, do we get to keep taking some fun journeys?
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Watch for the introduction of Captain Britain on the show and some incredible first-time interviews that I've been looking forward to for a long time.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Karen Gillen's coming on, and I'm so pumped about it.
• 51:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also have some really delightful script readings ahead.
• 51:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're doing the trial of Dave Cannon, the whirlwind at the end of the month, which will be a wildly different journey that the Colossus story.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you everybody for listening, over on the Patreon, the next episode you can watch for is a really delightful alpha flight villain called the Dream Queen.
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: So my friends Marcy Rockwell and Daryl Lawrence will be joining me for that.
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Alright everybody, thanks for listening, thank you so much to Justin and Jorge, we'll see you all here next time, our next week on the Grimm Mountain Lane Patreon.
• 52:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism, as a special guest and I talked about a red skull story, and it's modern applications.
• 52:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: You Nazi spy was released by Columbia Pictures on July 19, 1940, becoming the first American film who blatantly satirized Adolf Hitler, debuting months before Chaplin's The Great Dictator.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Conceived by writer-director Jules White, the short-starred Mohowered, Larry Fine, and Curly Howard, the three stages, if you know those names, with Moh portraying the dictator Moham Stone, a hilariously thin caricature of Hitler complete with a paintbrush mustache and bombastic non-sensical speeches.
• 52:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: At the time when the United States was officially neutral and most studios avoided provoking German fans, or Germany itself, Colombia's relative independence allowed the students to take a strikingly bold political stance.
• 52:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Their mockery targeted fascist rhetoric propaganda and the cult of personality surrounding Hitler, using a
• 53:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: slapstick in parody to strip the Nazi regime of its self-serious grandeur.
• 53:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Much of the shorts humor comes from its absurd direct spoofs of Nazi behavior in symbols.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Moe Hale Stone speeches are filled with jabbering, foe German, and exaggerated arm flailing that mimic Hitler's oratory style turning his cadence into complete-farce.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: The film lamppoons the Nazi obsession with militarism through scenes where Hale Stone casually orders invasions by spinning a globe like a toy.
• 53:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Gags that were similarly followed up with in a chaplain's later work.
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Stuja's parody in Nazi bureaucracy with non-sensical titles like Field Marshal Herring, a summed up to Herman Goring, Minister of Propaganda X-Nay, referencing Joseph Gerbels.
• 53:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: The regime's brutality is also mocked, but through slapstick abstraction, opponents are hit, poked, chase, rather than executed, underscoring the Stuja's trademark style, even the staging mirrors Nazi rallies, rows of manners, exaggerated slutes, while presenting them as ridiculous rather than fearsome.
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: All of this was deliberate political satire.
• 54:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Stuja's and Jules White openly stated that they wanted to make Hitler look ridiculous long before America was at war.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Public reaction in the United States was divided, but generally positive audiences found this, this, due to his lampooning cathartic, and contemporary reviews acknowledged the political edge beneath the comedy.
• 54:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Isolationist groups, including America First, criticized such films like this as interventionist, but the production code administration allowed the short because it attacked the ideology of foreign dictatorship rather than domestic politics, which they may have had a bigger problem with.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: UNATZY spies, assurculated widely, and helped normalize using humor to confront fascism at a moment when Hollywood was still cautious.
• 54:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Germany meanwhile responded predictably.
• 54:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Although the film was never screened there, Nazi press identified the stuages, particularly Mo, who was Jewish, as part of an anti-German conspiracy in Hollywood, and internal reports by the propaganda ministry cited rising American satire as evidence of cultural hostility.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: While the short didn't trigger a formal diplomatic incident, it became one of the earliest indicators to officials in the Reich that the U.S. Entertainment Industry would not treat Hitler with Deference.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Today, UNACSI spy is recognized as the first American film to openly mock Hitler, a foundational piece.
• 55:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: of anti-Nazi satire and a surprising moment in which slapstick comedy becomes a political weapon.
• 55:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: The stuages may not have set out to make the grand ideological statement, but their irreverence punctured the fearsome image the Nazis tried to cultivate and did so before most of Hollywood was willing to take the risk.
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody take a pause and go look at this short on YouTube.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really funny even after all these years.
• 55:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, now we're going to jump into the world of Captain America Redweit and Blue.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is an anthology series from early 2000s.
• 55:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're reading the sixth story by Peter Cooper, KUPR.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is only a two-page spread.
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's called Cap versus a rare bit.
• 55:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Captain America has had a nightmare.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's punching the shit out of the red skull, but then suddenly he changes into Hitler himself.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Swastik is appearing all over his clothing.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Captain America rips his mask off and finds Hitler's face underneath.
• 56:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the red skull revived.
• 56:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Rashes up passionately kisses the naked Hitler's lash cap.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: as hearts surround them like it's a valentine cartoon.
• 56:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Captain America wakes up clearly disturbances.
• 56:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Crimes!
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: What a dream!
• 56:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's the last time I Arab it, cheese, k-rashans.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Also, he's sleeping in full uniform.
• 56:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I must have been a tough day.
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me welcome my dear friend Michael, halft of the show.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: how dare you?
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: How dare I want?
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: How dare you?
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: How dare you come in here and give such a lovely speech filled with backstory and history and then make me witness whatever this comic is.
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I warn Michael everyone, please do not read until just before recording.
• 56:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Michael, let me open by asking, are you a red skull fan?
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not a fan of his work.
• 56:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you a fan of him as a character.
• 56:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I think he's a great character not a fan of what he wants to do I suppose it's what a weird question to ask so I send you this two page story you don't know what you're stepping into I'd love to catch your real reactions upon reading
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know this is for everyone at home.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was asked you want to do a short little thing.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a short little story and I just want you to read it when right before we record and I was like, okay, that's fine.
• 57:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a bit of a slow reader.
• 57:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, no worries.
• 57:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You send it to me.
• 57:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wait to like at the go ahead and I said to you, just give me a couple minutes to get through it.
• 57:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I opened it and saw this beautiful masterpiece.
• 57:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: which you did such a people need to go look at it because the way you described it does it no justice whatsoever.
• 57:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It like, and you do justice, but this is a crazy, I mean it's beautiful, it's stunning.
• 57:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the weirdest things I've ever looked at.
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: How would you describe this art style?
• 57:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's definitely like
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can see it as a Sunday morning cartoony kind of style a little hand sketched a little drawn purposefully looking rushed, but there's an amount of detail that's yeah, yeah, it's like New Yorker style, but it's it's Dia, who's reds blacks and whites.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the only colors.
• 58:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's all the panels are almost different.
• 58:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, almost like it's been inked in red.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's a 12th panel layout basically almost like Calvin and Hobbes energy, but it just gets really
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, what a great way to describe it.
• 58:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, it's tough because like having just seen it.
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's still sort of sinking in because I feel like there's a lot to talk about here I laughed when I first saw it and just kind of thought like what what am I reading?
• 58:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: What is this but like the more I'm looking at it right now, the more almost depressing it is in a way Like I don't I no longer sort of feel comfortable laughing at it, especially given like the political climate today of like is America turning into Hitler like the way
• 58:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't like those conversations either, but I will fucking laugh at this story.
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you that.
• 58:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You kind of, you got to find the, the laughingers in them.
• 58:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, there's, there's something cathartic like you were saying about seeing, um, Hitler and Red Skull make out half naked with a heart around them like it sounds really good.
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's truly studying and even the use of the swastika on the pages kind of out of fashion now this is you know 22 years ago when this was published Are you a lucid dreamer like oh, yeah, then 100% what's the one where you can control the dream in your head like I don't even know the name for that I sir, yeah, I can't control mine Do you have moments like this you wake up in the morning and you're like what was that dream?
• 59:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: 100 all the time that is actually the only way I dreamed if I if I have a dream I usually wake up remember being like why did this happen what the fuck was that pair to share a recent look the most recent when I had was a I had a my bathroom door
• 59:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: which is in my bedroom, was missing the door knob, and there was the eye of a child staring out through it at me telling me not to leave the bedroom.
• 59:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when I got up and left and went out of the bedroom, the rest of my house was just a playground.
• 59:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
• 59:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that was a very what the well, this is a request child address.
• 1:00:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, this is not what we're here for.
• 1:00:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had a recent one, which is just funny because there's very few things that really bug me, but I don't know if you've ever seen those, um, the Sharman, the Sharman Bear, like toilet paper commercials, like the naked bears, like the little kid walks out of the bathroom and they have like cheap toilet paper and they're like, Mom, what happened to the Sharman?
• 1:00:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then a little little shake, like show a close-up of their butt with all the like toilet paper remnants on it.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then like the parents will check the toilet paper later and they like look at the kids But I'm like what the fuck is happening in this commercial the Sherman bear showed up in one of my dreams recently I was just so you know Fuck those guys Oh my god.
• 1:00:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, here's wasn't nearly as traumatic, but I am still sorry that you have to see bear ass It may have been more traumatic.
• 1:00:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not confident.
• 1:00:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's so true.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's so true.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's so true.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that older with you
• 1:00:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: So cap punches the red skull who crashes on the floor and seems to like break his head open.
• 1:00:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then his cap turns away, picks up his shield, finds a swastika on it.
• 1:01:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then finds one also on his chest, so he's ripping the whole uniform off.
• 1:01:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: We get cap with armpit hair, he gets the mask off.
• 1:01:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if things were already weird, that would be plenty.
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then he's
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's un-tag that first of all, like America punched the Nazi, but he was a Nazi all along.
• 1:01:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, the subtlety, the subtlety on this one.
• 1:01:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the first couple panels you're talking about with the punching are truly brutal.
• 1:01:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like this comic fully feels like a juxtaposition in the way that like red and blue are kind of sitting at opposites.
• 1:01:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: First couple panels are so brutal, there's so much blood, and then by the end we get a whole
• 1:01:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I better stop eating cheese before bed and like like he's just fully disregarding this incredibly traumatic nightmare that he's had and yeah all the panels in between right it's like Captain America who we think stands for one thing just no matter how hard he's trying to get rid of the swastika on the shield through the shield away so on his costume rick the costume off it's the Hitler mustache take that off now he's Hitler it's like he can't escape it
• 1:02:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, some of the more political nuances here, like Nazis were obsessed with the creation of the Uber man, the perfect soldier, and Cap is kind of that, right?
• 1:02:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like a Nazi defector ran away with the secret recipe for super soldiers, and then like created one in America, who's now like he's kind of the blonde Aryan Uber men, but he's fighting on behalf of, so like the Red Skull's obsessed with him, like there's a whole bunch of history here, but then the Red Skull gets up and just makes out.
• 1:02:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: If it wasn't for the horny Captain America armpit hair and the two men making out half-naked, I feel like this comic would have been very upsetting.
• 1:02:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Propaganda or parody is a huge thing.
• 1:02:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I opened with that three stouges, which I don't know if you've ever seen it.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Take a bit of the time.
• 1:02:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Today if you haven't, Charlie Chaplin's the great dictator, the producers, bring time for Hitler and Germany, right like there's
• 1:02:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a whole history up and up to and including so much on Trump in the last five years, but that South Park episode from a few months ago, where it's like naked Trump and his tiny penis, up on the hill, I don't know if you saw that.
• 1:03:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, really crazy.
• 1:03:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are your thoughts on like the parody of this?
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not fun to treat it lightly, but it is funny to fucking laugh at the ridiculousness, you know?
• 1:03:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think we need laughter, obviously.
• 1:03:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think, especially now more than ever, but I feel like parody is one of the strongest ways to get points across for a lot of reasons.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think having something forced on you or it told your meant to feel this way isn't rarely useful.
• 1:03:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: in conversation.
• 1:03:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's rarely useful in media.
• 1:03:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think what parody offers us is the ability to see something laugh at it and have us come up with our own conclusions about how it makes us feel and why we feel that way.
• 1:03:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it offers us perfect balance for me anyway to to laugh, but think as well, which is rare.
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think
• 1:03:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the word rarbit, by the way, everybody, because it references rarbit in the title here.
• 1:04:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: The word rarbit is like a Welsh rabbit dish, but there's an old comic strip called rarbit comics.
• 1:04:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: The dream of the rabbit fiend from American cartoonist Windsor, McKay, that started in like 1904.
• 1:04:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's just trying to channel like classic cartoon vibes.
• 1:04:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know a lot about this creator, but it's a wild story.
• 1:04:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's worth a quicker.
• 1:04:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Michael, I knew this was perfectly equipped for you.
• 1:04:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I need this funny one.
• 1:04:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Michael, him, please.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: God.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Who should I torture with this?
• 1:04:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I couldn't have had you in for like a concentration camp story.
• 1:04:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're welcome.
• 1:04:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I take it back.
• 1:04:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
• 1:04:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Happy to be here.
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Happy to discuss this one.
• 1:04:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you.
• 1:04:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just checking on my friends, how you doing in 2025, my friend.
• 1:04:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, things are good up in Canada, specifically.
• 1:04:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm personally doing fairly well.
• 1:04:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to take this year to make sure I'm able to support kind of my friends and those who aren't doing maybe as well this year.
• 1:05:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: and you don't have to share, but I know it's been a year of huge changes for you.
• 1:05:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of things have been going on in my life, but I'm really trying to practice the opposite of the mask on yourself approach this year and trying to make sure all my friends have masks on because
• 1:05:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: As tough as it is, I have enough oxygen and it's time to make sure everyone else does too.
• 1:05:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
• 1:05:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very glad with friends.
• 1:05:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think you are smart and fun.
• 1:05:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Michael does the voice of Ghost Rider on our Champions Reads, everybody.
• 1:05:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So come and listen.
• 1:05:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have a delicious time.
• 1:05:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Michael also produces original content, modeling photos, a cosplay, everybody can follow.
• 1:05:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I get your emails that you send out and you're always very handsome, but you sound one recently where it was like side-hip,
• 1:05:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: on a bed with like your leg, and I was like, okay, Mike.
• 1:05:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, not the side hip.
• 1:05:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:05:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, my.
• 1:05:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hold on a minute here.
• 1:05:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's a fun thing.
• 1:05:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if anyone wants to come check that out, I am currently doing a sort of 10 year retrospective on everything I've done as a way of maintaining some content burnout that I've been feeling, but it's going to be really fun to kind of look back at the past 10 years worth of stuff.
• 1:06:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful to see you anytime and always get way to hang out again.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: YouTube.
• 1:06:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me know when you get a crazy story.
• 1:06:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always there.
• 1:06:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: You got it.
• 1:06:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll find another one of these for you.
• 1:06:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, perfect.
• 1:06:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure I'll have a dream about this tonight.
• 1:06:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the Charmander.
• 1:06:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody go watch that three stitches clip.
• 1:06:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's hilarious.
• 1:06:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you back here next week on Grand Mountain Way.