Latest / age / Ep. 09: Tattoos, Identity & The Font We Choose to Be

Transcript

Ep. 09: Tattoos, Identity & The Font We Choose to Be · age

0:00
A zillion. Do you have a favorite moment from today's podcast?
0:05
Um, Reggie's on the world more cars than I thought of.
0:08
That's what's the style.
0:09
Yeah, that was a fun extended sequence.
0:11
What was your favorite part, Reggie?
0:13
I heard the first thing.
0:14
Talking about Max Box and Hot Wheels cars.
0:15
Oh, Max Box and Hot Wheels.
0:17
Hey, I had it.
0:18
It is Ruthless Authenticity.
0:19
Will, do you have a favorite moment from today's podcast?
0:21
Ooh, I like hearing all about Reggie's weird,
0:23
lime green cars and everything else.
0:27
I like hearing about Dylan's special tattoo.
0:30
Oh, dang, he took mine.
0:32
Um, I liked the new name that Reggie came up with
0:36
for what many people would call a tram stamp,
0:38
but we're rebranding, so listen to find out more.
0:51
The G in the middle of the night.
0:53
That would kill me.
0:55
And they come up like this and you're like,
0:57
No.
0:58
I'm a little like a taban boy.
1:00
Ruthie, no way.
1:01
It's a lunge.
1:02
There's no way.
1:03
Is sleep the topic for today?
1:05
No, we haven't even pulled the host.
1:07
We haven't even pulled the host.
1:08
Yeah, we haven't even pulled the host.
1:09
Okay.
1:10
No, the host.
1:11
What if it was?
1:12
Pull the topic all right for now.
1:13
Pull in the host.
1:14
You've got to get it.
1:15
Oh, no, which was, which was a,
1:17
which was hilarious.
1:19
And I did this.
1:20
I said, we already pulled our host.
1:22
It was Dylan.
1:23
All right.
1:25
Yeah, welcome to age.
1:27
We had an eventful morning here.
1:29
And we're just excited to get started.
1:31
Here with Mary, Tim and Reggie.
1:35
And I'm Dylan.
1:36
We're going to pull the topic.
1:37
And we're going to talk about it.
1:39
Like we haven't already talked randomly out of the trash.
1:42
What if it is sleep?
1:43
That would be hilarious.
1:45
Or naked.
1:47
Or naked.
1:49
Okay.
1:50
That's what I think is cool.
1:51
That's like a little novel on it.
1:52
Oh, if Dylan thinks it's cool.
1:54
Yeah.
1:55
All right.
1:56
I'm excited.
1:57
So it's more of like a phrase.
2:00
I want to like, you guys don't, it's like a phrase.
2:03
Yeah.
2:04
Take me there.
2:05
So let's talk about it.
2:06
I'm not good with phrases.
2:07
All right.
2:08
Hold on.
2:09
That sucks.
2:10
Same cloth.
2:11
Different font.
2:12
Same cloth.
2:13
Different font.
2:14
Oh.
2:15
Put that in there.
2:16
Yeah.
2:17
Killer.
2:18
I am blank.
2:19
It like takes me to.
2:22
What does it mean?
2:23
Well, no, no, no, no.
2:24
Don't tell me what it means.
2:25
The first thing that popped into my head when I read that was we,
2:28
I say this all the time, we live in the age of the remix.
2:31
Yeah.
2:32
That it like.
2:33
Twenty.
2:35
And if you could see Will, we have the same shirt on.
2:39
Yeah.
2:40
There is.
2:41
Insert clip of Will.
2:42
Yeah.
2:43
Will.
2:44
You guys do have the same shirt.
2:45
I didn't get the memo.
2:46
Oh, I'm sorry.
2:47
Yeah.
2:48
You were busy.
2:49
Different from watching.
2:50
Yeah.
2:51
Different font.
2:52
Same cloth.
2:53
Different font.
2:54
There it is.
2:55
What do you explain it?
2:56
Wait, wait.
2:57
Do you know what it means?
2:58
I don't know when to put it in there.
2:59
Let me say first before I know what it means.
3:00
I just think from like same cloth comes from the statement of like someone who.
3:05
They come from the same cloth.
3:06
Cut from the same cloth.
3:07
Cut from the same cloth.
3:08
That's literally.
3:09
But the same font is an interesting twist that I don't know what it means.
3:12
No, different font.
3:13
Different font.
3:14
Cut from the same cloth.
3:16
Different font.
3:17
And what I think of is ultimately that we all share this synergy between fabric and fashion
3:28
and life.
3:30
But we all can also go off and have our own font, our own little thing that's just ours.
3:35
It's like that we own.
3:37
So, you know, maybe I'm a Helvetica new kind of guy.
3:42
Maybe.
3:43
What if you're not a font nerd?
3:45
But go ahead.
3:46
I want to hear what you have.
3:47
We set it a lot.
3:48
And it's like in college.
3:50
In college.
3:51
Yeah, in college, sorry.
3:52
She's speaking for all the 20s.
3:54
Yeah.
3:55
Yeah.
3:56
It was a club.
3:57
For me, it's more of like.
3:59
Yeah.
4:00
It was like the same thing.
4:01
Like you're cut from the same cloth.
4:02
Like a different font.
4:03
It's like an alteration of it.
4:04
Yeah.
4:05
So, it's like we're all cut from the same cloth.
4:09
But today, I'm a different font than Mary and the rest of you guys.
4:12
I like it.
4:13
So, it's a new one's change.
4:15
Yeah.
4:16
So, it is a little bit about independence.
4:18
Same type, a different font.
4:19
Yeah.
4:20
Like that kind of thing.
4:21
Yeah.
4:22
That's the play, right?
4:23
Yeah.
4:24
Same type.
4:25
Oh, not the type or the same thing.
4:27
I like it.
4:28
It almost to me sometimes feels like somebody's two people's or two things.
4:34
Like their purpose in the world is the same.
4:37
Like the things that they value and believe in are the same.
4:40
And like the way that they move is similar.
4:42
But the way they express themselves is different.
4:45
Yeah.
4:46
But doesn't it drive you crazy that the font of any design,
4:50
Fought and Urge will know this.
4:52
It's a change that only specific people notice.
4:55
Yeah.
4:56
Logically notice.
4:57
Yeah, that people will feel it.
4:58
Yeah.
4:59
But most people are like, I don't know what changed.
5:00
Yeah.
5:01
And it's like the font didn't go down their website.
5:02
You know, like you have one of the issues and it's whatever the basic font is on their computer.
5:07
Yeah.
5:08
And they're like, yeah.
5:09
So, they don't even get the change.
5:11
Yeah.
5:12
But they're like, it's different a little bit.
5:13
Hmm.
5:14
So, it's like it's such a new one's shift.
5:15
So, I wonder if that's playing into this idea.
5:18
Maybe to be a people nerd is like what different font are we together?
5:23
Yeah.
5:25
Well, it's interesting font and like typeface being the analogy.
5:29
And of course we're the kind of people who can nerd out on that stuff.
5:32
But I am not really well versed.
5:35
I didn't come through design school.
5:37
I don't really have that foundation.
5:38
But having interacted with a lot of designers,
5:41
I've come to appreciate the like fine art that is type setting and like creating typefaces.
5:47
And I'm that person who's like, I can't tell you why.
5:50
But it feels different now.
5:51
I can't tell you why.
5:52
Remember that song?
5:53
You remember?
5:54
I remember that.
5:55
I remember that.
5:57
I remember that.
5:58
That was a, that was a morning show.
6:01
It was a late show.
6:02
I can't tell you why.
6:03
I'm okay with that.
6:04
But I get that.
6:07
But the idea that like even to, I can tell you Sarah or Sans Sarah.
6:12
Yeah.
6:13
I'm really proud of that.
6:14
I know that lingo.
6:15
But, yeah.
6:17
The two Sarah fonts couldn't tell you why one feels better than the other.
6:21
Couldn't tell you what's more readable.
6:23
But it does make a huge difference.
6:25
I feel like that's one of the things.
6:27
There's like a threshold when I'm like, oh, I shouldn't be the one designing this.
6:30
I should hand this to somebody.
6:32
And one of the rules is like, I need like a sexy type system.
6:37
I'm not your guy.
6:38
I think if you know, if you understand the anatomy of type,
6:42
it kind of helps you understand why the little micro variants between them stand out.
6:48
And like even if they're subtle, you start to be more aware of them.
6:52
Is that how you tell the different font than people?
6:54
They're anatomy.
6:55
Yeah.
6:56
You're anatomy.
6:57
You're anatomy.
6:58
Are you like thick tabs?
7:00
Are you selling up?
7:01
They got some Sans Sarah.
7:03
Sarah feed.
7:04
They come out.
7:05
He couldn't read, he couldn't get his shoes off.
7:09
No.
7:10
I thought that I couldn't.
7:11
I felt myself not being able to reach them.
7:14
I can't reach them.
7:15
That was funny.
7:16
Yeah.
7:17
I listened to that episode the other day and I was cracking it up.
7:21
Watching and listening to this footage back is so humbling.
7:25
It's like, we don't know what the hell we're talking about.
7:28
Yeah.
7:29
It's funny bringing that up because I was driving in and I was like,
7:31
how's it going to be?
7:32
Like, you know, you're thinking about it as you're driving in.
7:34
And I was like, I'm not going to talk as much.
7:37
Because I don't let Dylan ever talk.
7:39
Yeah.
7:40
It's not something I do intentionally.
7:42
I think Dylan's the host.
7:43
She should just talk this whole time.
7:44
I don't want to.
7:45
I don't want to.
7:46
I don't want to start going to talk.
7:47
Dylan, go ahead.
7:48
I just don't want the generation to think that the old guys just talk
7:52
over everyone.
7:53
Oh, yeah.
7:54
They feel it.
7:55
Yeah, you're repressive.
7:56
But apparently that's what happens because that's what we do.
7:58
I know.
7:59
That's what's funny.
8:00
It's accidental.
8:01
Now, I couldn't have listened to the episode because that's
8:04
what you're talking about.
8:05
Yeah.
8:06
And we were having a conversation about it the other day.
8:07
But Tim.
8:08
Yeah.
8:09
I can't bring it up.
8:10
It's like constant.
8:11
No.
8:12
I can't do this because then they'll see the back of my head.
8:19
But I'm looking at you really hard.
8:20
And there is no back to her head.
8:22
She just.
8:23
It's open and that's how she gets her data chips in there.
8:27
I just don't know anything about what's happening back there.
8:30
And I'm not confident.
8:31
And.
8:32
Just do like I do.
8:35
Shave it.
8:36
And there's no mystery.
8:37
I'm so close, Reggie.
8:38
You don't even know.
8:39
I brought the buzz cut.
8:40
I see.
8:41
Oh, you cut totally right here.
8:42
It's a different font every time you cut it.
8:44
Dude.
8:45
Oh, yeah.
8:46
Let's.
8:47
Can we.
8:48
Let's not talk about the hair.
8:49
It's so important right now.
8:50
It's such.
8:51
It's kind of like ad lib.
8:52
Oh, it's absolutely ad lib.
8:54
Yeah.
8:55
For sure.
8:56
I like it.
8:57
I.
8:58
If you go off because red hair is very memorable.
9:00
And in fact, people don't recognize me when I like change my hair too significantly.
9:04
I'm a hawk.
9:05
You're going to do Mary mohawk.
9:06
Like really.
9:07
Mary mohawk.
9:08
We can call you mohawk Mary.
9:10
Oh, my God.
9:11
Yes.
9:12
I had a lot of nicknames in my life.
9:13
Mohawk Mary will.
9:14
Are you in for mohawk Mary?
9:15
What kind of type would mohawk Mary be?
9:16
Uh-uh.
9:17
I would love mohawk Mary.
9:18
He's so fast.
9:27
Very red mohawk, that would be so bad, huh?
9:29
My family, when I got my septum pierced,
9:30
they were like, nobody was like,
9:34
I mean, my dad kind of shook his finger
9:35
at me a little bit.
9:36
Everybody's fine with it, but they're like,
9:38
that's edgy, that's really radical.
9:40
I'm the one who went off to like a liberal arts school
9:42
and...
9:43
You're like, wait till you see my tattoos below the belt.
9:46
And weirdly, I don't have any,
9:47
Will and I have talked about this.
9:49
Like I feel like somebody who would have tattoos,
9:52
but I'm not.
9:53
We had a whole conversation last night,
9:56
about tattoos.
9:57
Do you have tattoos?
9:58
No, he does not.
9:59
And we were all just saying how we don't really quite...
10:03
Really?
10:04
We're not tattooed close.
10:05
I have one.
10:06
I used to have one in high school,
10:07
it was on my bottom lip, and now it's...
10:09
A tattoo?
10:10
Whoa!
10:11
You're like...
10:12
Wait, I don't see my tattoo.
10:13
I used to have a tattoo on my bottom lip.
10:15
What? You didn't?
10:16
No, you didn't.
10:17
Fun fact, my mom hasn't said, Devon.
10:20
It said, Devon.
10:23
It said, hi with a smiley face on it.
10:25
Wait, inside your bottom lip?
10:26
No, that is so cool.
10:28
Did you have to have it lasered out?
10:30
No, it just faded away.
10:32
Because I was what?
10:33
It was one of those little sticker tattoos
10:35
that I didn't get.
10:36
It's your lip.
10:38
It was...
10:39
I was 16.
10:41
What?
10:42
Did your mom have to sign?
10:43
Yeah, I think I get it.
10:44
She was six years ago?
10:45
Yeah, your mom just got even cooler.
10:47
It's if that was even possible.
10:50
No, I don't.
10:51
That makes a mom cool to let their child get a tattoo
10:54
in their lip.
10:55
Well, think about it, though.
10:56
The reality, though, is it like, completely hidden.
11:00
So it wouldn't affect our ability to get work or anything.
11:03
Because my thing, the reason I haven't locked down
11:06
on a lot of tattoos is because like,
11:07
style changes and like, yeah, it keeps going.
11:11
I'm still there.
11:12
It's like, will the me who's me today still like this tomorrow?
11:16
Yeah, I've just, I've had like some conflicting thoughts
11:20
and then also just like, art changes, your style changes.
11:24
I was like, reflecting everyone.
11:25
I was 16.
11:26
It was so like, Tumblr of me to go like,
11:28
this to my friends and girls.
11:30
But then...
11:32
Did you have a grill, too?
11:34
I'm getting a grill, actually.
11:36
Wait, you're getting a grill?
11:38
My friends, we went on a bachelor at trip a couple of months ago.
11:41
And I walked into this like, in this like tattoo parlor,
11:45
I got like one of these additional ones
11:47
right out of this guy.
11:48
I was like, yeah, I make grills.
11:49
And I was like, oh, cool.
11:50
Hell right, brother.
11:51
All right.
11:52
Is it like removable?
11:53
You can like...
11:54
I want to get it.
11:55
And I want it to be like half gold, half silver to like match Alba.
11:58
Oh, I love it.
11:59
Yeah.
12:00
Let me see your grill.
12:01
Yeah, yeah.
12:02
Yeah.
12:03
Okay.
12:04
I don't know, man.
12:05
That was big.
12:06
That was I think seventh grade going to basketball camp.
12:07
But that's kind of like...
12:08
I think honkettonk, but donkettonk was also on that now album.
12:11
I don't know any of what they're saying.
12:14
Yeah.
12:15
Speaking of foreign language.
12:16
We are like just past the...
12:18
I think we missed that.
12:19
Yeah.
12:20
The cultural puddles.
12:21
I'm trying to align myself with the unbeatable.
12:23
Make sure I'm in this camp.
12:25
Yeah.
12:26
I think...
12:27
You're already on that couch, though.
12:28
Yeah, understood.
12:29
I picked this seat today.
12:30
Yeah.
12:31
I think the thing about like the phrase that I like truly love is it's like we can all find
12:35
a common ground.
12:36
Yeah.
12:37
And then I can have my style.
12:39
You guys can have your style.
12:41
The one thing that does drive me crazy about it though is I think people can't get past
12:45
like the same cloth.
12:46
They're like, oh, I see you as me.
12:48
So then when you do something differently, it's like, like how you were talking about
12:51
you were like, that's a little edgy.
12:53
Like your family sees you as the same cloth, but they're like, you got to accept them
12:56
piercing?
12:57
Yeah.
12:58
You have to rethink this whole different thing.
13:00
So I think there's like some limitations to it.
13:02
I think that goes the other way too that sometimes I hear people say like the same whatever
13:07
different font.
13:08
And it's almost like they're kind of not judgy about it, but sort of like couldn't
13:13
you get more original.
13:14
Right.
13:15
Kind of thing.
13:16
And I'm like, I don't know.
13:17
I feel like we're in the the fine nuance in the way that I think you and I were talking
13:21
about how far do you zoom in and keep psychoanalyzing something versus you just have to stop and
13:27
be like, I don't need to know every atom that makes up that chair.
13:30
It's for my purposes, that's a chair.
13:32
It's like typeface is the same thing.
13:35
You can keep zooming in and looking at the kerning and all the whatever.
13:39
It's like, just let it be.
13:41
I love that phrase so much.
13:42
You're going to say something.
13:43
So yeah, well, I was thinking of just like in the business world of anatomy, I see these
13:47
like micro like, I want to say micro communities, but like branding is now having to get very
13:55
micro and some levels to like get the super niche people.
13:59
Because I feel like those are the people that haven't been like targeted in a very long
14:02
time.
14:03
Yeah.
14:04
Tim and I were talking about this yesterday too, that like the idea of niching, I think puts
14:09
people in a really weird head space.
14:12
Sometimes it can be really effective, just be like, what's our niche?
14:14
But I almost feel like what's happening now is people who like one thing, who also like
14:19
this other thing that's completely unrelated are finding brands at the crossroads of those
14:23
two things.
14:24
They're finding common ground.
14:25
So it's like a magical thing.
14:26
They're like, oh, you like both these things too.
14:29
You can like punk rock and I don't know what's the other thing.
14:33
I think.
14:34
I think it's such a great phrase because I think like as close as Tim and I are, if somebody
14:38
was like, are you guys coming from the same club, I would probably say no because we have
14:43
a lot of things.
14:44
But if you use that phrase, I would say, yeah, we have a lot of common ground, music,
14:51
style choices.
14:52
But then we also have a lot of variation that's different.
14:56
Like he brought that runner in and I was like, bro, I don't know what that was.
15:01
I was wondering what that was.
15:04
And he's like, yeah, but look how cool it is.
15:06
And I was like, I don't see it quite yet.
15:08
Where are you trying to put it in the hallway there?
15:11
I never saw it.
15:12
Yeah.
15:13
You might want to get a second opinion.
15:14
I don't know.
15:15
I want to return it.
15:16
He's returning it.
15:17
I didn't want to.
15:18
He said it's right outside my office.
15:19
I was going to say I think he gets the strongest.
15:22
But I think taste is such a unique choice because it doesn't.
15:26
There are some people like me, I'm driven by like a vision, a fuller vision of what something
15:30
could look like.
15:31
Yeah.
15:32
So each step gets you there versus one individual piece.
15:34
All the style.
15:35
Yeah.
15:36
Like for me, it's like a collection of things versus like this piece.
15:40
So if this piece doesn't match a bigger vision for me, then I don't get the piece and I don't
15:44
understand why it's being there, why it's being used.
15:47
But when I saw that piece and I passed it by Megan because she holds the mood board
15:52
of what the space is going to look like and she loved it.
15:55
And so I just went with it and it was cheap and but what it was like to nice to know
16:01
that it goes too far for Reggie.
16:03
So it like helps to zero in on when you're working together to look a certain way.
16:08
Everyone has a little bit different vision about where they think it ends up.
16:13
And same clock, good for fun.
16:15
I think that's why the tattoo thing in my body, my person, is a different story because
16:20
I don't know the vision of where I end up.
16:22
So it's hard for me to put together the things now that come together to make what I am
16:28
and what I will become.
16:31
Yeah, sometimes I'm starting to, I'm like, how do you reckon with that?
16:36
Like how do you live day to day knowing that each little micro choice that you make is
16:40
going to turn you into somebody ultimately, but I don't know who it is I'm trying to be.
16:45
So I'm like trying to figure out different ways to navigate that.
16:50
Most of them going really poorly, but one that I keep trying out is, would my, I use
16:57
my 50s because my parents just moved into their 60s.
17:01
And so like that's a phase of life I can imagine.
17:03
I was like, okay, if I'm 55, 60, yeah, sorry.
17:09
My parents also had kids like kind of late for where they were living, so, but they, what
17:15
will make me proud of myself?
17:17
Like what choices will I be really proud of myself for looking back?
17:20
And that starts to help me figure out values.
17:23
Like, oh, I think the things that are eternal about me are, I can't see myself not valuing
17:29
friendship in the future.
17:31
So when I prioritize friendship, I can't regret that kind of thing.
17:37
To bring it back to the font.
17:38
Oh, I get two more monologues ready.
17:41
Yeah, this is number two monologue number.
17:43
When you were talking about the font and how brands are trying to get more micro and
17:48
they're looking feel as David Carson was a crazy font guy.
17:53
Like, or tried to break it.
17:55
He had the Reagan magazine and that magazine is known for its destruction of font.
18:01
Like he thought an interview he had with an artist, a musical artist was so bad and boring
18:05
that he set the entire interview in wingbat.
18:08
Yeah, that's hilarious.
18:09
That's cool.
18:10
So that's cool.
18:11
You couldn't even read it.
18:12
It was just symbols.
18:13
The entire article for pages was just symbols.
18:15
He was giving you the feeling of the interview, not the content.
18:19
Yeah, the pictures would be in there, but just it was all in a font you couldn't read.
18:23
And he would also do hand drawn fonts or broken fonts, paste it in, handset.
18:28
And so there was his font actually became not a nuance change.
18:32
It was the thing of Reagan.
18:34
That magazine was built around the way he used fonts.
18:37
She had David on the show.
18:39
He's a friend.
18:40
He's a friend.
18:41
That would be really awesome.
18:42
Yeah, dude.
18:43
Yeah.
18:44
I know David since David Carson, we were going to have him come to the AIGA Asheville.
18:51
I think I'm associated by a third degree, yeah, probably through my link there.
18:55
He would probably vibe with us because he's such a rebel.
18:57
Oh, he is.
18:58
And he did something, and this was going to say about 30 years ago in St. Louis when
19:01
I was on the board for AIGA.
19:03
He did what he wanted to do.
19:05
Right.
19:06
Like he literally didn't give a fuck about the market, about India.
19:09
He literally just evoked a motion out of himself and did the thing.
19:13
There was the epitome of going against the grain.
19:16
But he didn't even do it against the grain.
19:18
He just did what he wanted.
19:19
Yeah, exactly.
19:20
And he was against the grain.
19:21
It just looked against the grain because it wasn't like anything else anybody else
19:23
was doing.
19:24
Brands now typically will try and look at the market.
19:28
And if they want to go against the grain, they will look at the market to figure out what
19:31
is against the grain, not like what is in me that goes against the grain.
19:36
But they're like, and then the market will actually be drawn to the largest swath of people.
19:43
So the reason they're not doing micros, so they don't want to reach a small niche.
19:46
They want to reach a big niche, even though niche kind of is kind of intuitive to say a
19:51
big niche.
19:52
I mean, like it's all relative, right?
19:53
Yeah.
19:54
Right, but they want to be as mainstream as possible because it's the most money and profit
19:57
as possible for the company.
19:59
So it doesn't actually incentivize them to go micro until there's some level of validation
20:06
in that micro niche becoming a full trend.
20:09
And so I think it's like this backwards logic that we think we can get to someone because
20:14
we think we know what they want versus doing what we are made to do.
20:19
And I did a video on LinkedIn where it talks about the truth, the truth of who you are.
20:23
What is your font?
20:24
Like if someone came up to you and said, what is your font?
20:27
How could you answer that?
20:28
Like we're talking about, obviously, such an easy answer for you.
20:32
It's completely legible.
20:34
But imagine some people even don't even know what a font is.
20:36
So that puts a whole nother meta understanding on what this may mean is that they don't
20:41
even know what font is.
20:43
So like, what is it?
20:44
It's so double whereas Prada, this is, that color was chosen for you, but I don't know.
20:49
Oh, it was like the Cerulean blue.
20:51
You guys are going to go see the new one.
20:53
Yeah.
20:54
Have you not seen it?
20:55
Yeah.
20:56
You seem like you would have been.
20:57
I would go see it.
20:58
It's a sin right now that my life is looking to me.
21:01
I would definitely go see it.
21:02
Yeah, I'd like to see it.
21:03
I interrupted you, but you were like, there are people who aren't even sensitive to
21:06
nuance.
21:07
You only had 10 more seconds.
21:08
I think the phrase is more pivoted to creatives who understand the font.
21:14
Totally, but I was wondering if there is a whole group of people who have never taught
21:18
to know who they are.
21:19
Well, they're really, yeah.
21:20
They don't even comprehend that they can go there.
21:22
Do you not see all the 40-year-old moms who are wearing the same jeans across when
21:26
you go into Walmart and wear them the same?
21:29
I, yeah, this is like, this is really bad and someone please forgive me.
21:33
I will go into Walmart and I will see everybody wearing the same stuff and I was like, I know
21:38
exactly where you got it.
21:39
Yeah.
21:40
I know exactly where you get it.
21:41
Well, especially in a small town, there's like a scarcity thing, although online shopping.
21:44
There is a scarcity, but there's also this like not knowing who you are.
21:49
It's almost like a type of brainwash for then you're like, oh, I can be influenced by
21:52
the people on my phone to buy this to look at this way.
21:55
And don't you think that not only is it that there's an absence of education or encouragement
22:00
to pursue that for yourself, but I would say, especially in rural places, small towns,
22:05
you are actively encouraged to conform.
22:08
Like homogeneity is safe, homogeneity is easy.
22:11
Yeah.
22:12
Yeah.
22:13
And you blend in and you don't stick out.
22:14
I've always been the opposite, even it's from my very first job, like everybody was wearing
22:19
like eyes, odd shirts and polo and everybody had the same brand jeans and the same shoes.
22:28
And I would intentionally go out and get different things because I didn't want to look like
22:32
everybody else.
22:33
Tell me why.
22:34
Because I just didn't.
22:35
I didn't feel like.
22:36
Tell me like, I wanted to stay.
22:37
I wanted to be different.
22:38
These benches are open enough.
22:39
I didn't.
22:40
But why?
22:41
I want to know why because I didn't want to be homogenized, but it's an overvaluized thing.
22:47
Brands want to do it because they want to stick out.
22:49
There's a strategy behind looking different.
22:50
It's not because they just want to look different.
22:52
I've never met a brand that goes, just make us look different.
22:55
Unless there's the back.
22:56
The loco pop.
22:57
The back ends.
22:58
There's the back end desire to stand out for success.
23:01
Right.
23:02
Because they didn't have one there.
23:04
But as a kid, you don't have the idea that you're going to be more successful when you're
23:07
different.
23:08
Literally you will be separated from the pack and in nature you die when you're separated
23:11
from the pack.
23:12
No, see what was cool.
23:13
They cut up from underneath and the tree falls.
23:15
It worked for me.
23:16
Thank you.
23:17
Bring it back.
23:18
It worked for me.
23:19
I got best dressed in high school and it was because how are you going to get best dressed
23:23
if you dress like everybody else?
23:25
And so for me.
23:26
And so you want it to be best dressed?
23:28
I want it to be different.
23:29
I want it to be the guy that went out and find to find articles of clothing that was cool
23:35
that people would go, wow, that's awesome.
23:37
I haven't seen that before.
23:38
Where did you get that versus he's just wearing what every single other person is wearing.
23:44
Ready was before the conform.
23:46
I just never liked that.
23:47
And that's been my whole life.
23:48
You saw like everybody's wearing those on-cloud shoes.
23:52
I have probably the only on-cloud shoe style that I've not seen anywhere else.
23:58
Everybody else's looks the same and mine looks so different because I'm like I didn't want
24:03
what everybody else had.
24:04
Yeah.
24:05
I made it.
24:06
That's interesting.
24:07
This is getting to an interesting death that I had to think this.
24:08
Well, I think when you're in the homogeneity race, when you're like trying to conform the only
24:12
way to out, as just tell me if you agree with this or not, I'm not.
24:16
Sometimes I say shit and I'm not sure where it came from.
24:20
Here's an experiment.
24:22
It does feel like the way you win in that version is just having the most money.
24:26
When I was growing up, it was the brands that were in the mall, Abercrombie, American
24:31
Eagle, but not just like, oh, I need jeans like decking out and doing the accessories
24:36
and stuff.
24:37
Airpastel.
24:38
Airpastali.
24:39
I don't remember the name of that.
24:41
But yeah, you wanted to have the it version.
24:46
There was like an archetype that you were chasing and everybody was chasing the same archetype.
24:50
And if you had more money, you could get closer to the archetype.
24:54
So isn't the underlying desire to be special?
24:57
I guess so.
24:58
Don't you want to be excellent?
24:59
Don't you want to be seen?
25:00
You're doing it to be seen.
25:02
You've got the word best stress.
25:04
You don't want to look at everyone else because everyone else is not getting seen.
25:06
They're being seen as a ball.
25:07
As an example, it's like a mob as a group.
25:11
And to stand out, it makes the focus on you, which is why it's scary for a lot of people.
25:18
Right.
25:19
Because everyone looks at you and like, what are you going to do now?
25:20
You're dressed different.
25:21
Yeah.
25:22
They say something different.
25:23
You're going to act different.
25:24
Yeah.
25:25
And then when you start bringing that up into our adulthood, it's like, what do you drive?
25:30
Where do you live?
25:31
It all comes back to Tim's car, eventually.
25:34
We're going to do a fundraiser, and we're going to call you or see you a new car.
25:37
No.
25:38
We should put a picture of my car right here.
25:40
I even think about that, but even my cars have always been.
25:44
No, it's not different.
25:45
It's not different.
25:46
No, no, throughout my life, I had, so my first car was a Nissan 200 SX.
25:54
Nobody had that.
25:55
It was the low Nissan that the little lights that popped up at the boom and system in it.
26:00
That guy totaled by an 88 in my neighborhood who was drinking and driving, and so then
26:05
I had to probably not even imagine he even, I mean, I don't know, that guy's probably
26:10
in jail.
26:11
He had a reckless life.
26:13
But then I ended up with my grandmother's grand theory with pale damage.
26:18
Nobody had that.
26:19
That is a unique vehicle.
26:21
My next vehicle was a British Honda called a Sterling.
26:28
It was a Rover Sterling 825S.
26:31
The 825S.
26:32
The 825S was, it was in car and driver magazine.
26:35
It was the most in 88.
26:38
It got the best touring vehicle in the world by...
26:42
1988.
26:43
1988.
26:44
Yeah.
26:45
It was in 88.
26:46
I had two, I had two sobs.
26:49
I had a 95 classic Range Rover.
26:52
Like so, yeah, I have always gotten that down.
26:54
So the car now is the least unique out of all the drivers ever.
26:57
And my Tiguan, those are the most least unique cars that I've ever had.
27:01
But you...
27:02
So you must vibe with Volkswagen.
27:03
I do.
27:04
As a culture.
27:05
As a culture.
27:06
Now, as a now culture.
27:07
Not the old Volkswagen, but like the...
27:10
No, no.
27:11
No, no.
27:12
I like the ergonomics.
27:13
I like the tech.
27:14
I like the fit and finish.
27:15
That's interesting.
27:16
The fit and finish.
27:17
Yeah.
27:18
Oh, you didn't know about the...
27:21
The key he designed the Volkswagen, the first Volkswagen.
27:24
The people's car.
27:25
They give to everyone.
27:26
Yeah.
27:28
It's a commission, the Volkswagen.
27:30
Volkswagen.
27:31
Volkswagen.
27:32
Yup.
27:33
Volkswagen Lugen.
27:34
They look for everyone to have a car.
27:36
Luke is awake!
27:37
That sounds like...
27:39
You can imagine, it's almost an Arnold Schwarzenegger set.
27:43
And why not?
27:46
So it almost sounds like, though, in this explanation that you're at different cloths.
27:51
Same font, right?
27:53
Same font, different cloth.
27:55
different cloth because it's dramatic the way you're looking at it. Yeah, fonts are so so so so is the font
28:02
the soul and the like fabric between us and we're back. They don't know that we were ever gone. Oh
28:12
yeah that's true. I think they're gonna know. I think they're gonna know. I'll recap. I was
28:16
gonna know. I feel like Reggie is describing a person that is of a different cloth but same font
28:21
in that you're you're you're a person you're relatable but you're going to make all the exterior
28:27
which is the cloth. It is the cloth. Oh yeah. Like I don't know if that's the way to read it but I
28:32
feel like you were making more dramatic changes like very different. My first car was a CJ5
28:37
actually it was not. It was a Ferrari. No it was a terrible it was a great grandma it was a great car.
28:44
Oh grandma. My grandma and grandma's car for $300 a Nissan Centra from like yes a Nissan family
28:52
brother. I love it. That was our both our first cars was a Nissan. Yeah mine was the Nissan 200
28:58
as well. It was a brown not a great brown mine was bronze which was in the brown fan and it was
29:05
the paint was coming off the top and the groove and the oxidation. Yeah so I had that for like
29:12
I can only manage for a few months and then I flipped it for $500. You can only manage. Would you
29:18
make money on it? See this may be the roots of where that came from. Yeah.
29:21
Remember at the time that you sold it do you remember how many years old it was from it's
29:25
yeah it was already old and it was over years car ever so 16. What does old mean? It was in the 80s
29:30
early 80s. Wait so it was great. It was a car from the 80s early 80s and you were driving it in
29:36
95. As much as I'd like to say that my first car was a Nissan I'm totally forgetting about my
29:42
actual first car. I told you guys about it before. Were homeschooled. No it was a grandmother taught
29:50
you to drive. It was a lime green Buick regal. This is good. Remember with a white vinyl top and
29:58
a sunroof. Remember I told you the big long and I crashed it. I was at we were leaving one of
30:05
our varsity basketball games. I had three of my teammates in the car. We were downtown and this
30:12
wait they made fun of you about it. Yes this guy ran into the back of me and because it was my
30:17
first time ever having an impact I freaked out and he stepped on the brakes and turned his steering
30:23
wheel and it ended up on his bank stairs. So there was a photo the next day of the news
30:28
paper. The actual bank downtown St. Louis. Like you got to rob them with your car. Yeah apparently.
30:36
They're ended up being a picture of my car on the in the newspaper in the post-dispatch the next
30:41
day. Maybe I mean I doubt it. It's a free digital but it was so funny. Everybody was fine. The car
30:49
lost its bumper which then made it way more embarrassing to drive. It was like cool at first
30:55
but because it was kind of like I don't know it kind of reminded me of the cars that we were
31:00
watching like boys in a hood and you know it was like a nice stylish car. Didn't have a boom and
31:06
system or anything like that but now I had no bumper. Do you ever play Mashbox cars? Yeah. Yeah.
31:12
When you drive and you have a Mashbox cars. You don't actually drive them. Yeah you do you
31:16
pretend you're in it and driving it. That's what kids do. Did you play Mashbox cars? Your son
31:20
I'm sure is driving Mashbox cars. I have Ferrari's 71 Lamborghini. It is. Yes. Amazing. That's
31:28
the year I was born. That's a good show. He's a like day. He's right gee. Did you play Mashbox cars?
31:38
Not really. They were in my grandmother's house but that wasn't really our vibe. More of a
31:42
LEGOs kid. Mine were always the sporty ones like the Ferrari's and the Lamborghini's. So after I
31:49
got my after I flipped my grandma's car. Porsches. That's great. He was flipped it like he was
31:54
doing a bunch of work on it. Literally I didn't do anything. She just sold it to me for less
31:59
than it was worth. I sold it for more than it was worth and I went and bought a CJ5 in 1981.
32:03
Jeep CJ5. That is a great set. 70s colors on it you like the more. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Oh
32:10
Merge and the color with the black rag top. That is a you feel cool. Oh of course he did.
32:14
He felt cool because I take the top down. It was like the stick ride. Dude that was the car.
32:19
Did you mind it? The then I found this other Jeep CJ7 on a lot and so I flipped that G to give
32:26
that the big winning gravity. I was creating gravity early on. Look at that. Then I got married
32:32
and from then on out literally I have not valued my car until recently. I drove like a purple
32:39
minivan for my work. I drove this green Ford Ranger and I think that was the end of my car style
32:46
essence because I was working. It was very functional. You lost me a purple minivan. I would say
32:52
font. The font topic is a functional thing. Like fonts are very functional. People think that
32:57
they're daily cars and cool. What's the right word? Like expressive. Display fonts actually help
33:03
people read better. Yeah. They help people reading in books. More and less accessible options for
33:10
that. That's why they have display fonts that get attention and then they have reading fonts which
33:13
you can read long form. And it's less work for your eyes. Yeah. So that's a very functional
33:19
decision. So my car turned into a Ford Ranger which I. That's functional. Very functional. I worked
33:25
in it for years and after that. But I tell I did this deep study. I don't know why. I totally
33:33
forgot about the Mercedes. That was another one. That was a cool car. The reason I was bringing this up
33:37
was that are we over talking the car conversation. I think there's something connected here. There
33:45
is because there are fonts that are I don't know I'm taking this from the fonts. So there are
33:51
fonts that are available on everyone's computer. They're system fonts and everyone knows these fonts
33:56
and sometimes there's comic sands or aerial or papyrus. We all love papyrus. There is never
34:03
comic sands in papyrus. No, there is. Every every computer has a comic. No, I know but I
34:08
always intentionally delete it. Oh, maybe you're missing. I've seen the general public. And so there
34:15
is this movement to make because you couldn't control in the early 2000s. You couldn't control what
34:21
font is on your website because the computer would choose the font. So you started trying to design
34:27
with system font, which is a very tight constraint. But now things can go crazy. Like brands can
34:36
actually do micro shifts and customize your own font. You could do it. And a lot of people
34:42
on our website. Yeah, absolutely. And so this brings me to this ship my own sale. I know some
34:51
type designers. It's not a lot of work. That's how I feel about being an astronaut. Yeah,
34:55
that'll never happen. Mary, you can see that. An astronaut. No, no, can't happen. We can take you
35:01
up in Tim's plane. You can do some zero Gs in Tim's plane. I wanted to be an architect and
35:06
someone. And I thought about changing my career like last week. No,
35:11
yeah, honestly, a couple weeks ago. We're like, yeah, yesterday. I was just
35:15
constantly like, maybe I could try architecture. I just heard somebody basically do like a video
35:20
essay on my being an architect sucks. It's terrible. Yeah. So glad I'm not. I know a ton of
35:24
architects. It's pretty bad. They're really, they're always busy. No, but I had to be back from
35:30
to architects to not change my career. Really? Yeah, it's terrible. Yeah. Anyway,
35:35
there's this conversation about scarcity right now. Not scarcity in the way that I've
35:41
been thinking about it where you act differently because you don't have enough. This is so
35:44
fun. Scare city when you're very, very capable or wealthy and you can buy things that are scarce.
35:51
So an asset when money is being devalued by the printing of it and by the
35:56
the, the, the, the, um, yeah, gold, gold, the scarce. So a guy did this article about
36:04
Ferraris in which was one of my favorite cars as a matchbox. I mean, every kid's is
36:08
dreamed about owning a Ferrari. And that is part of the scarce asset it is because out of
36:13
330,000 Ferraris, which is the total number of cars they've made since they started as a company.
36:19
I just want you to know how impressed I am that he remembered that number. That's just like
36:23
something that could never happen. It's that can also impress that you are a matchbox guy
36:26
not hot wheels. I was always matchbox over hot wheels. Yeah, my son's hot wheels though.
36:31
Oh, I think they're bigger brand new. Oh, hmm. Anyway, no, they were different. Yeah, they,
36:36
got hot wheels with a cool name for matchbox. Well, yeah, it's like Kleenex. There's a
36:40
million kinds of tissues, but you call them all Kleenex. Yeah. Well, hot wheels is fitting out
36:44
all the tracks that have the flips. The flips off. Yeah, I think that's why they're getting bigger.
36:49
So far, do you see 30, 330,000? So you have a kitty room for that. Total. There are 180,000
36:56
Ferrari owners in the world today. Yep, scarce. And they get to take other once a year and have
37:01
a big party. No, to buy their supercar, you have to have already bought eight to ten other
37:05
Ferraris. And you are not allowed to edit edit. I'm saying that I use the design thing.
37:10
Edit the fun. You're not allowed to update them. To customize them. You are not allowed to
37:14
customize them whatsoever. Really? You literally, you have to sign a waiver when you buy it.
37:18
But you can never. Yeah. If I pay a million dollars for a car. You know what the average price?
37:23
Do what the hell I want. No, you can't even build a buy one. You know what the average?
37:26
No, I buy it and then I go like it goes against contract. Wow. The average cost of a Ferrari
37:32
over their entire lifespan is 500,000 per car. And out of the 300,000, 330,000 that are
37:39
made, 300,000 of them are still functioning. Oh, you did tell me that recently.
37:43
The rate is 100,000, you know how many? Yeah, 330,000 is how much a Toyota or a Honda makes in
37:50
two days. Yeah. And that's their lifespan from the, I don't know, I didn't even know the era
37:55
of the year they were born, but that's a lot. There's a lot of things. The durability thing I think
38:00
is really relevant right now. Like it goes back to, we talk about quiet luxury and like materiality
38:06
and what is high quality and that kind of thing. And the idea that you're, I didn't know that you
38:11
couldn't like change trends or anything. That's like licensing IP. That's like you, if you're
38:17
going to use Mickey Mouse, you're going to use Mickey Mouse in these approved ways. And that's,
38:20
it's like brand alignment. Yeah, if you're buying a Ferrari, you live by the Ferrari standards.
38:25
Wow, wow, wow. Isn't that crazy? The reason the way they did this and this comes back to like,
38:29
you go into Walmart and seeing people that all look the same, that is the normal car. Ferrari
38:34
is the one who looks different and is different because not no one, very few people can actually get
38:41
a Ferrari. And that goes back to your money thing. But here's the thing. It goes back to the money.
38:45
Yeah, it's like, you just got to be excellent. If you're going to be the same as everybody
38:49
able to, you got to be the most expensive version. And then there's a different kind of differentiation
38:53
that starts to happen. It's like high fashion and you can afford to be expressive. But I'm seeing
38:58
this other thing happening in the opposite direction. Like I'm about to go to Japan. I'm looking
39:01
up like thrift and vintage. You were sending some options for that. I put them on my Google map.
39:06
Oh, we went to a thrift store in Japan that was amazing. Yeah, nothing's going to fit me because
39:11
I'm going to be like three times the size of a normal Japanese woman. But I'm like, but I'm
39:15
psyched to see like even just some like street style stuff. And I don't know. But I think that
39:20
going in the opposite direction and being like, how do I give something new life is another way
39:25
of doing that. We've talked about like thrift bundles and things. Yeah, I don't know. We're trying
39:30
to give you space to talk, Dylan. But hey, I do appreciate it. I think there's just like a lot of
39:37
like baggage that maybe comes with the phrase now that I'm like, anyway, just because
39:42
send it to me and I want to carry it with you. I think there's just like such a pressure.
39:47
It is different, but I feel like there's like, I feel like there's such like a negative
39:52
connotation with like being different. There's like a positive, but then there's also like the back
39:56
in it. It's like, I don't know. I don't know what like the world would look like if it was just
40:01
like that person was unique instead of being different. But I mean, I guess I coexist.
40:06
That's that is interesting where I was like, when you guys were talking, it was like, yeah,
40:12
like that person is on their trajectory to be themselves. Yeah, they'll be unique. Like all of our
40:18
paths are going to be unique. Yes, they're going to be different. And like maybe that comes with
40:22
like some negative connotation of like, maybe you didn't go to design school, but your brain thinks
40:28
in different ways than mine do. But then that kind of puts me at like a, not like, I don't like,
40:33
when you say that you didn't, like that doesn't put me down, but I'm like, oh, Mary didn't go to
40:37
design school, but she's thinking in such a creative way that I didn't get taught at design
40:42
school. So it's like, it's like this balance of like, how do you create it? I do. It's like that
40:48
balance of like where I was thinking and like, rewiring it. It's like, it is a different. It's like
40:53
the same cloth, different font. It's like almost like a justification. Yeah. So I don't know,
40:57
I was like, toying around with those different ideas. But when you're so desperate to be seen,
41:02
I think it creates a level of, of, um, you try to be seen. Can I put a finer point on that?
41:11
Because I don't think I, yes, I would like to be seen, but even more important than being seen
41:17
to me is being understood. And I'm really struggling with that right now. It's like, I, like,
41:24
I've had red hair my whole life. I talk about like, there's family members that I can't remember
41:28
their names, but they can always remember my name because Mary Beth had the red hair and like,
41:32
I'm the only one in the family. And I feel that way in a lot of settings, like people will remember
41:36
me because my coloring is different. But I have always felt like the choices that I made
41:42
had to be really calibrated or people might see me as a different person than I am. So I'll keep
41:48
using the septum piercing as an example. My family was kind of like, yeah, why'd you do that? And I was
41:52
like, well, I'm not really sure. I think I wanted to, I mean, like, why do you do anything? I was
41:58
like, I think I want to express myself for one. And I like jewelry and whatever. And I like it
42:02
that I could take it out and, you know, it versus a tattoo that you're stuck with. But I think,
42:07
in part, it was because I wanted to signal that I'm like a liberal person that I am kind of
42:15
edgy, I guess. But like, yeah, that I think differently, but also that, like, I'm a safe person
42:21
because I look so, if I'm not trying, I look so Karen. I look so like what you're worried about
42:27
looking Karen. Like, you about to walk up and ask me what I'm doing here. Yeah. Because people will
42:31
think you're like something else, right? They don't see you. Yeah. And so it's like, I'm trying to
42:35
find, calibrate the right, like, expression choices to give people enough information about me.
42:41
It's like, oh, I don't want to look so buttoned up that I'm stuffy, but I do want to look put
42:45
together like I care, but I want to look comfortable like I could do in it. That sounds like too much
42:50
thought into it. Welcome to Mary. I don't think it's too much thought because think about it
42:58
this way if you did go to Walmart and didn't say I never do. I totally do. I love Walmart. But if
43:05
you went to Walmart and let's say if there was someone, I don't know, there's like just such an
43:10
opportunity and presentation. Sure. Yeah. I do think all those thoughts. It does, and at the end of
43:17
the day, here's the kicker. Yeah. I hate this deep with a deep fiery passion. People are going to,
43:23
they can only look at you through their own frame of reference. Yeah. And you will be someone
43:28
different to everybody who's looking at you. So you do just need to like put it all on wing dings
43:32
and put it out there. Yeah. Here's the thing. They won't look at you through their own
43:36
perspective. They'll look at you through the culture's perspective. That's why Karen's even
43:40
became a thing. Yeah. It wasn't bad to look like a Karen. It wasn't even bad to be a Karen.
43:44
Someone had a bad day and got called a Karen. And then the meme started. Yeah. Now everyone's
43:49
about not to look basic or be a Karen or do that. And so you start getting these labels like one
43:55
of the previous episodes. Yeah. And I think that we're trying not to be seen as in one of those
44:00
groups we don't want to be seen in. Yeah. And yet also maybe chasing some labels that we do want
44:05
to be a part of. Yeah. I got to somebody let me know what those are. And I'll that will help my
44:11
overthinking. I think it would be good if people went through the mental exercise of like
44:18
envisioning who they wanted to grow into, who they wanted to be. And then they could maybe have
44:23
at least a little bit of a roadmap to get there. Do I want to be seen as stoic and safe and comfortable
44:35
and trustworthy and think you think about what kind of imagery, what kind of fashion,
44:42
what kind of cars, colors, what kind of things like lead to those things. Yeah. I think that would
44:50
be a good exercise for people, especially for people that don't really know who they're becoming
44:54
and they want to have a little bit more control over what that is. But it's just hard in a world
44:59
that's so visual and intense and focused on certain trends to kind of go internal. Yeah.
45:06
And try to truthfully answer that question because you have these things that look cool or look
45:11
this way and that way and you're looking at these, I would say these roles, these role models.
45:18
I mean, these are where that feels like an old school word. Who's your role model. But literally,
45:21
we're looking at these different people and the way they dress as like a way that we could dress.
45:27
You know, that's why all the advertising and the fashion and my wife even told me we said that
45:32
this was going out. But this year the the heroin chic is back. So people want to look like on a
45:40
bunch of things that we thought we had moved past. Right. So there's like this last night and this is
45:45
so the culture is moving trends. Someone is moving it and I know the incentive is money. It always
45:50
is with fashion because you got to get something that not everyone's wearing if you want to sell more
45:54
stuff because then they'll just keep buying the same. At our level, the incentive is money.
45:57
At the highest levels, I mean, it's to be seen. It's to be different. At the highest levels,
46:01
I think it gets cedier and uglier than that. Also, controlling women's bodies and creating
46:06
power dynamics and subjugating. Should you think that it's do you think it's men making the
46:10
decision? We're wandering into Epstein files territory here, which I am not well enough
46:14
first in to really have a discussion about it. Are you saying with this new trend of skininess?
46:18
I'm saying that there's money to be made and power to be gained from keeping women fragile,
46:25
frail and contained and self-conscious about their bodies. Instead of empowering them. Yeah, because
46:32
you individuals do that, but brands as like a system of oppression do that. I can I can
46:37
vibe with that mainly because as what I was noticing is that I at least through my observation,
46:45
women were becoming way more confident as they were praising normal size bodies in fashion and
46:52
you were seeing normal size fashion people are criticizing them. I mean, maybe on the side, but
46:57
I was but but here's the thing. Women have often been driven or at least my observation is I see
47:04
women are driven by fashion. They see what women look like and they have insecurities that come
47:10
from like, oh, I don't look like that. But now you had all these ads were, oh, that's a normal size
47:16
woman. She looks like me. I feel like I can be myself. And what Mary is saying is that wasn't
47:23
obviously, I don't know whatever that was, but maybe there's a power dynamic where they're saying,
47:29
no, we don't want women to feel empowered. We don't want them to feel comfortable in their body.
47:34
So we're going to push this other visual direction so that women can go back to like you said,
47:40
feeling frail. There's another type that we're all trying to hit the same archetype. And if you
47:45
have enough money, you can get closer. You can fill your lips. Yeah. Yeah, look at LA, man. What's
47:50
it called? Your Buckel buckle fat taken out. You can modify your body. You can buy the right
47:55
clothes. You can be in the right places. If you don't have enough money, you're not able to
47:59
achieve that archetype. And so your second class citizen, if you look, if you ever listen,
48:04
watched, um, selling sunset. Oh, no, but I like all the women on there have some augmentation.
48:11
They're all like fit and like, yeah, yeah, they all so wild. I don't think it's ironic, though,
48:19
that just as exemptic NGLP ones come out, all of a sudden it's trendy to be skinny. That doesn't
48:25
seem like a, a money play to you. Uh, say more. I think you could buy this thing to make you
48:31
skinnier because skinnier is cool. Yeah. Doesn't that seem like the complaining boy? Yeah. And I'm
48:37
saying at the very top of that marketing chain are some of the most powerful. Yes.
48:41
happen to be men in the world and that they benefit from not only the money that they make off of
48:46
me being desperate and buying a GLP one, but also my inferiority complex. Yeah. Not fitting and
48:53
not feeling comfortable in whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I totally see that both. And that's a really
48:59
interesting concept. But I think they're into our money and power. I think they're connected.
49:02
Yep. Money and power, man. So, so I mean, there are fonts that are super thin fonts.
49:10
Very hard to read. Well, it's going to do a slab. Sarah first can be nice episode on obesity.
49:16
And Mayan said to me, can you believe people are idolizing people that are really, really
49:22
bony, skinny. And I said, they're not. And I felt like a confidence saying that. But then she
49:27
had to educate me and we kind of had a fight about this because I wanted her to know that I don't.
49:32
And I know the trends of men who like end women who like bigger bodies.
49:39
I know that's an underlying trend that no one's letting be publicized. Right. And so it's this
49:45
and then the argument went to the place where I was like, listen, the culture doesn't define you.
49:51
She's like, yes, it does. And I was like, there's this, there is this tension between
49:55
I've never lived under the pressures of being a woman. So I don't know that level. Maybe you're coming
50:00
into your like tootsie era and we'll put you in drag. And we'll give. I mean, I think I would be a
50:06
beautiful woman. I quote where he's like, I was doing the thing and I was dressing up as a woman
50:09
and I realized, I'm not a very pretty woman. Oh, but I'm an interesting woman like when he was in
50:14
that role. Yeah, sorry. You would be a pretty woman. So I guess it's one of the
50:19
most fun things to be an interesting person is so much more important than having different clothes.
50:27
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. To be yourself. To be confident in yourself, even if you have to wear
50:32
the same clothes that everyone else is wearing. Like when do we get to the to the the sci-fi movie
50:38
where we're all wearing the same thing like a team? You know, like that's kind of how earth
50:42
we can just happen today. I just have to go home and change.
50:49
Yeah, we're kind of working our way there in a sense. So next time, I like the one
50:53
I want you brought it. I love it. Difference versus unique. This is a vibe. I like it. No,
50:59
I think I'm just trying to become Dylan. I think some of my favorite people don't fit the like
51:08
the mold of what society has like deemed as like, yeah, like some of my favorite people are like
51:17
question now. Big tall goofy look like question. Do you like them? That's a Reggie's type. Do you
51:25
like them before? They're famous. Yeah, no, no, I'm talking about personally. I think I'm
51:30
about people I personally know. Let's make a list. I like it because they're personalities and how
51:34
fun and funny they are and how like loyal and comfortable and confident they are in their own
51:42
bodies. And you can make that list of like, here are things that I value. Yeah, here are things that
51:46
mean something to me. And they may or may not match the archetype that we have on our head.
51:51
Right. I think we pick and choose parts of the archetype though because isn't like at least
51:55
in America, the like idealized anybody is confident. Right. Idealized anybody is funny and smart
52:02
and interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And there happen to be beautiful in the exact ways that we want
52:07
them to be. But think about like Tom Hanks. Yeah. He doesn't look good. He does. Everyone loves him.
52:13
Look at his old movies. There was it. There's not like a, there's not like a model really nice
52:18
eyes. I used to have me as a child. He's got a very approachable smile. But what I'm saying is
52:23
people, but he's not, he never would have been a model. No, he wouldn't have been a model. He isn't
52:28
the typical beauty. Neither would have Michael Cain or, you know, there's a lot. I don't know
52:35
Michael Cain in his use like you do. I only know Michael Cain in his elderly era. Oh my gosh.
52:42
You're only a decade. Okay. So Tom, Tom Cruise is a model type guy, right? That is like the
52:47
quit essential Brad Pitt. Except like too short. He's like, he's too short. American
52:53
beauty. Architects. So Chris is too short. He's like five four. We don't know that. Like,
52:58
we're not around him like, you're short. He probably got made fun of. Of course. But what I'm
53:02
saying is now, but now it's Tignotaro. It's what is that? Tignotaro is this comedian. I think
53:10
she's still identifying she heard, but she gets mistaken for Tom Cruise. So she's a lesbian.
53:15
And she looks a lot like Tom Cruise. Really? Yeah. That's hilarious. I guess what I'm saying.
53:20
I guess what I'm saying, when you say that, everyone likes a strange person that gets famous,
53:25
because it makes them feel like maybe they can be their strange self. But a lot of times it's
53:30
natural for someone really beautiful like, who's the girl in this big, bold, beautiful
53:35
journey? Have you seen this movie? It's me, by the way. I think you know her name. Margot Robbie.
53:42
Margot Robbie. Oh, Margot Robbie. She's like the quit essential like in my wife who says,
53:46
she's so right. So like there's this like it's home again. Thank you for that compliment. Yeah.
53:52
Margot Robbie. It's obvious that she's everyone's looking at her. I like her, but I don't see her as
53:56
like, I think of like Emily Blunt or somebody like that who like Margot just kind of, I don't know.
54:05
I don't want to diss Margot, but she seems homogenous. You just said you like different people.
54:10
I'm telling you the one that's not different. Oh, yeah. You're saying she is homogenous.
54:14
Yeah. Literally was not like Barbie. She was cast as Barbie. Yes. I know. I know. I'm not like her. She is
54:20
the quit essential beauty, Mark. Standard. So when someone rises up like who are the odd birds?
54:27
They're like such beautiful odd bird women actually. Charlie's there on. No, she's gorgeous too. Like
54:33
think about someone who doesn't look the right part. Oh, what about the actress?
54:38
Like it doesn't matter. It's all like so personal who you think looks weird. No, okay.
54:43
Yes, definitely, but I'm saying I'm trying to see it from the the mass perspective.
54:51
Yeah, I'm from the office. Who's the comedian? I'm from SNL. Right. She, we could know her name,
54:57
but. Wait, who from the office? Oh, Pam. Oh, I love Pam from the office.
55:01
I was thinking of Pam from Truple. Yeah. Or is it she said, Paquin? Oh, Anna, Paquin. I've
55:08
always said Paquin, but it's Paquin. Yeah, she's like a little bit of around. I love her.
55:12
I love her. So wonderful. I think she's beautiful in her way too. Emily Zolinger. She has her sister.
55:18
Oh, Zoe De Chanel. Oh, man, I love Zoe De Chanel. Zoe De Chanel. I love all these people too
55:26
because I think they rival the standard and people put them up and I think that we look at
55:32
them and say, yes, we can be different. We don't have to look like Barbie. Yeah. We can be seen and
55:39
loved as our different selves. That's why I think why people like Tom Hanks because he didn't,
55:44
he wasn't like the intimidating like. Right. Jock. He wasn't Brad Pitt. He wasn't Brad Pitt.
55:50
Brad Pitt is like the quintessential Edward Nord. Yeah, yeah. Edward Nord not so much. Right. Yeah,
55:56
that's a good point. I think that's true, but I also think there's there is a standard and
56:02
depending on how progressive or conservative society is leaning in a given moment, the amount
56:09
of like variation you're allowed between you and that archetype gets more or less right now
56:17
or like, oh no, that you need to be kind of dialed into the archetype. You need to be a little more
56:20
dialed into the archetype. conservative and similar and there's a lot of things that make sense about
56:25
that based on where we are in history like what is American culture? It's so vast and so varied
56:32
and even just rural to Metro is so different. Never mind if you've got different like immigrant
56:37
populations that are you know assimilating for lack of a better word. So like there's a lot of
56:42
stuff that's driving us apart and we're having to figure out how to hold together. So I can get
56:46
why people are on this like Christian nationalist. Let's all be clean cut and do it the certain way.
56:52
There's a thing on the internet you've probably heard this about like the Republican like Christian
56:57
woman things. Oh yeah. And they're all kind of chasing the same blonde Southern kind of bell archetype.
57:04
Old-school archetype. Sydney Swinney like jeans thing.
57:11
Well it's funny because Tim said that the tattoo, the amount of tattoos that people get,
57:16
the trend goes with the economy. Well they're also expensive. So the gowns the other way.
57:22
Yeah when it turns people get more tattoos. Yeah. Right now people are getting more tattoos
57:27
as the economy is down. Well do you think there's a sense of I mean I've got all.
57:34
Well I do think there's a sense. Yeah I am curious what that is too like.
57:38
I don't have any tattoos so I can't speak on this but I will say here's three things that I've heard.
57:43
I've heard some people say you know tattoos I get a lot of criticism for them but I know that
57:48
every time I get a tattoo it feels like my body is more my own. Oh that's awesome.
57:52
They're brand branding themselves. I've also heard people say yeah when I get too stressed out I
57:58
need to go get a tattoo because it's like this ritualistic sort of like calms me down sort of
58:05
thing. It's like the quintessential personal branding. Yeah I mean literally. And then the last
58:10
thing I'll say that I've heard is you know originally tattoos were like rights of passage.
58:18
They were like you entering being inducted into something. Right right. In tribal communities
58:25
that's what they would do. It's I think all of those things are interesting when you combine them
58:30
with something like recession and then you combine them with something like you know when I was
58:34
growing up the idea that you you couldn't have a visible tattoo because how are you going to get a job
58:39
what sort of the narrative fed to me. And now I see people just wearing like sleeves when they're
58:43
a cop because they can't because if you're a policeman you still are not supposed to show that kind
58:48
of thing but they do anyway. So I don't know is it a little bit of like fuck it I don't want to be
58:53
a policeman I'll get a tattoo. No I wonder if you hit the nail in the head with like when people are
59:01
like during a recession most people are likely to be depressed because they don't have as much
59:05
money to spend things and they you know they're debts probably increasing and it's one of the things
59:10
that maybe makes them feel more like themselves when they can't like have control of other parts of
59:15
their life like this is something I can control. Yeah. It's me it's my body and it makes me feel more
59:20
like myself. It's almost kind of like also and I love tattoos I think people who have them especially
59:26
if they've like thought it through it's so cool but they're it's like rings on a tree you know like
59:32
oh yeah I remember when I got this it's like taking a picture or something yeah but I like the idea
59:37
of it being on. I get started on photos. Yeah we've gone too far. Did you say picture? She did. She
59:44
did you say picture? Another thing that I think has been limiting me from getting tattoos is that
59:50
I really want the art to be good yeah and I don't just want like American style it's stuff that
59:58
like everybody has and so I feel like it becomes this really personal thing I want like the makers
1:00:03
mark on me and I want to feel connected to that artist. The liquor maker maker's mark liquors
1:00:10
you know like you know like you know the logo for makers marks. Oh yeah that's right. I don't think
1:00:15
that I could actually think of one of the rare reasons. It's a scratch and sniff.
1:00:22
Scratch and sniff tattoos. No wouldn't that be scratch and lick. Well oh yeah, scratch and lick.
1:00:27
I don't think I could ever do a tattoo because I think whatever I was sold on stamping on my body one
1:00:32
day would would just not have good shelf life within like two or three weeks I'd be like damn I
1:00:40
wish I got something else. I feel that way too. And I would just be constantly changing. Well what if I
1:00:44
could get super clear on the mood board like you were talking. What if I could get super clear on
1:00:48
make your person where you're headed. She's fine with a tattoo. What if a tattoo helps her?
1:00:54
Okay but like I would do it. It wouldn't be like imagery it would have to be like a personal
1:00:59
brand like my own logo. My own logo for my arm. That would never change and it would be my own
1:01:06
personal thing. Okay but this is a whole different idea about tattoos but it's just that logo at
1:01:11
different sizes. It's a whole logo system. So when we were getting countertops in our kitchen
1:01:27
we were going to get marble which is nice right. But you know that marble is easy to mark.
1:01:34
Oh yeah. It's a very you got the upkeep is very. Yeah so it's like a very expensive top. Yeah
1:01:40
but it's really hard to maintain. Yeah. You can get really cheap ones that you can put
1:01:44
pans on them basically. Right. Right. Right. But for my car. And so I was kind of turned off
1:01:49
but I was like why is this so expensive if you can just ruin it so easily. And someone said because
1:01:54
it's expensive. In certain cultures. Right and I think it is in Japanese culture when something
1:02:01
receives the marks of life it brings history and value to it. So we also had butcher
1:02:09
block countertops which also can get marked up. Yep. And so I just might someone said it to me
1:02:14
and like my entire mind changed in an instant and I started seeing these defects as part of
1:02:20
its character and part of its life and part of our life. It's a story. My kids are on this
1:02:26
countertop and they're eating their cereal and we had a glass of wine there and we cut radishes
1:02:31
on the butcher block. So all these markings. Right. So these tattoos aren't meant to be timeless
1:02:38
and perfect all the time. Yeah. They're I feel like maybe they're meant to bring you back to
1:02:42
that like you said like that. That's when this happened. It's nostalgic. Which is why I like the
1:02:48
ancient tradition. Even because it's ritual and you remember this is when I became a man. I
1:02:52
passed. So you had a tattoo in Japan. I mean it has a very interesting experience. I even with
1:03:02
friends of mine that I've known for a long time this whole episode this whole podcast is just my
1:03:07
lovely letter to Jake's perfume. So Jake. Jake. We knew Jake. You don't know Jake. Maybe he'll come
1:03:13
to know him from these stories. Oh yeah. But I like he's had several tattoos in the time that I've
1:03:20
known him. He doesn't have very many but I think he's working on it and I can remember when he
1:03:24
got every single one and I'm like oh yeah you went to Hawaii and you got that and you let it get
1:03:29
out in the sun and so you're mad that it's not super crisp anymore or like oh yeah you're doing
1:03:34
your jungle arm and that started that year that we went to the zoo in the rain. You know
1:03:39
it's so cool to have stories of a friend's tattoo. Yeah of his body. I don't know who
1:03:44
we're very connected apparently. I have a tattoo. Oh yeah it showed us. It's a weird thing. What
1:03:53
does it mean to you? How do you connect with that? Well when I was and sorry by the way do you
1:03:59
think anybody else in the world has that tattoo or do you think it's custom? Okay go ahead. It's
1:04:03
custom because someone the letters are Hebrew letters for Yahweh and it's in the shape of a
1:04:09
guitar and I played guitar and I was a worship leader at church my dad's church and to me it meant
1:04:16
that I belonged. So it was a similar belonging but it was something I love to do but the letters
1:04:23
are shaped into a guitar so it was like it was like Yahweh to me in a way. So you're gonna take a
1:04:29
picture of it so Will can put it on screen. Maybe. Bright doesn't look great and it's right in the
1:04:34
middle of my back which is kind of embarrassing. Oh that's right it's up here right. It's not
1:04:37
it's not a translate. I know what ever. Back in my head. I literally almost forget I have this
1:04:42
tattoo. Yeah but there's something about it that's coming back around for me because there were
1:04:46
years I've almost got it lasered off or almost added to it because it it said something about me
1:04:52
whenever I had my shirt off at the pool like it was like a mark like I was marked. It wasn't
1:04:58
like a mark. It wasn't a mark but it wasn't like he's got tattoos it was more that tattoo is
1:05:04
something specific. Like that's a mark that isn't just like this guy wanted to get a tattoo type
1:05:09
of mark. So I think it's but now it's weird because I thought I was never gonna come back to it
1:05:16
but I'm now coming back to it. I love it. It's like embracing it again. It's not even I'm
1:05:21
embracing it. It's like I don't even think about it but my life is coming back to when I got it
1:05:25
and something about it. You're like I am cool. I was over in. I'm cool now. I see it when we
1:05:32
see it. I probably see it happening as we get older. We do awaken to ourselves being cool.
1:05:38
Even though we're not because we're so uniquely different. There's not a standard for cool. We're
1:05:42
all cool. You know to bring it back to the different font thing. I think that it's interesting
1:05:51
like you say figure out who your role model is and it could be yourself. It could be this custom design
1:05:56
thing but I don't know what if we're like excited about the things that we share. What if it's not
1:06:03
like I'm trying to separate from people but I'm gonna throw one more thing out. When I was growing
1:06:09
up my mom would always she said she had friends who if you asked them where they got something they
1:06:13
wouldn't tell you because they didn't want everybody to glob on and get it. This sounds like
1:06:16
something you would do. But these days I think like we're there's a divide happening. There's
1:06:22
the people who are like it's exclusive. You'll never have one and like there's some vintage stuff
1:06:26
that I still feel excited about with that. But the other thing is like twinning. Like oh yeah.
1:06:32
You've got to tattoo. I've got to tattoo. We connect on something and I do think that a lot of people
1:06:37
are taking those signals and running with it. You know like the way somebody dresses teaches me
1:06:42
something about what maybe maybe we share as like a mindset. So I don't know. I think it's to take
1:06:49
it as the compliment when two people share something and like vibe into it. I say as we're wearing
1:06:55
the same outfit. But yeah like I'm I'm very excited by that. I have good reason to be excited
1:07:02
by that. It's so funny. I said I would never get a tattoo but as you guys are talking I was thinking
1:07:06
and I probably wouldn't. When I had when I had stepped throat when I was a kid I got penicillin. No
1:07:14
no I got penicillin and I had a reaction to the penicillin. Now I have this like dark rash
1:07:20
like spot like it's a scar from the rash that I had. And oftentimes with my shirts off like oh is
1:07:26
that a tattoo? And I'm like no it's a rash from penicillin. So I'm like what if I got a tattoo
1:07:32
to cover the rash? Yeah. Reclaim it. Except it's in like the tram stamp kind of area. So that'd
1:07:37
be kind of weird. No shame in a tram stamp. Absolutely not. Okay. Say that again. There is no shame in
1:07:42
a tram stamp. No shame in a tram stamp. No shame in a tram stamp. Well I call it that like yeah I
1:07:47
got a tram stamp. I think there needs to be a better term for my degree. I think there does. Let's
1:07:52
elevate the name of it. What can what can we call it now? It's a tram. And this is like
1:07:56
the only part in emulating. Let's call it a lumbar label. What's that? A lumbar label.
1:08:05
Sounds like something you like. It's a lumbar label. Get on. What's your lumbar? It's your lower back.
1:08:11
I got a lumbar label. So a back brand. A back brand? Back brand. That's good. He does have a
1:08:18
back brand. He does have a back brand. He got a back brand. The fourie hearts resolve is that we
1:08:23
are getting a lumbar label. A lumbar label. At our next. At our next. At our next top
1:08:28
brand. We will do fresh tattoos. The 4ty with the heart in it and we just think that we're
1:08:33
gonna get it. I can do a big 40 H over my back like that. Yeah. We have each of your little faces
1:08:39
engraved and it's the letter. My wedding ring finger, right here. Yeah. So tattoos are the font
1:08:45
we're talking about apparently. Yeah apparently. It's episode could have easily been called tattoos.
1:08:51
Also the idea that like now people do flash and so you might have the same tattoo if you went to the same tattoo
1:08:56
Yeah, because they got a little selection that you choose
1:08:59
Myrtle Beach like when you go to the beach and they have that little list of oh my gosh for ten dollars
1:09:03
Really? There's something about Myrtle Beach that just excites me
1:09:08
Uh-oh Dillard just got excited. Oh I go smell it. Yeah. I go see the week
1:09:13
There's something about it anyways
1:09:15
This was fun
1:09:16
Yeah, I'm gonna send this off because we got stuff we gotta do
1:09:19
So thank you for being here
1:09:21
We'll see you in the same cloth, but a different font next time next time bye guys
1:09:29
Love you. No, it's fine. It's gonna be exciting um Dylan when she hosts Dylan kind of just holds for
1:09:37
Thanks for listening this podcast was created and developed by our host
1:09:42
Reggie Tedwell, Tim Sproggs, Mary Green and Dylan Garcia
1:09:47
produced by me Mary Green live production and editing by Will Kennedy
1:09:52
graphic design by Dylan Garcia and set design by Megan Sproggs
1:09:57
Today's episode is presented lovingly by 40 hearts
1:10:01
creators of enduring value