Latest / Pod Save America / 2020: Eric Swalwell on gun control and being bold

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2020: Eric Swalwell on gun control and being bold · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. This is Tommy Vitor and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: welcome to the latest candidate profile. As you know, we
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: are trying to talk to our All of the candidates
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: running for president in the Democratic primary in 2020. And
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: today I sat down with Congressman Eric Swalwell. We started
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the conversation by talking about his ideas to get guns
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: off the streets because he has made gun control really
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: the focus of his campaign. We also dove into the
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: roiling debate in Congress and on Pod Save America about
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: impeachment and the reasons for or against. We talked a
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: lot about his work on the House Intelligence Committee, what
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: challenges he sees in the world that worry him. We
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: talked about Iran. We talked about China. We talked about
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of top, top, top secret documents getting
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: leaked out of the NSA and the CIA and how
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: the hell that keeps happening. Uh, and what rules of
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: the road, if any, he thinks should be put in
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: place to, you know, limit cyber activities and cyber espionage.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: We also talked about his, uh, likelihood or not to
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: win votes from his parents and his brothers who are
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Trump supporters, uh, and what he's learned from talking with them. And, uh,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: basically why he thinks he's the best candidate to do this.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: So I really appreciate the time. There was a lot
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: of Pod Save the World moments in there. So download, rate, review, subscribe,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Pod Save the World. Quick plug for myself. I'm not
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: going to do it now, Michael. When am I going
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: to plug my own show? But without further ado, here
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: is Congressman Eric Swalwell. I'm honored to have in the studio,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: in Crooked Media HQ, Congressman Eric Swalwell, California's 15th district,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and a candidate for President of the United States. Welcome.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on. Love the show.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Did you get enough doodle time on your way in?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Did you see any of the dogs?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I did not see any of the dogs, but we
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: have a black lab who would just absolutely fit in
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: around here.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: How big?
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: About 70 pounds. Her name's Penny. We got her, and
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: it was just kind of the typical get a dog,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: get engaged, get married, have kids and now like when
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: someone asks for a picture of your dog you're like
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: oh shit i haven't taken a picture of my dog in.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Two years this is the ghost of christmas future we
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: we're still on the dog uh and there are 7
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: 000 photos of luca if you ever want to see
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: one but we have bear back at home with my
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: mom who's a 90 pound black lab who likes to
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: sit on your lap so.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Make some of your favorites just so you can have
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  Speaker 2: them like right at the top when people ask.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: This is this is good advice but i digress um
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Hard pivot here. You said the focus of your campaign
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: is gun control. So, I mean, you've called for a
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: mandatory federal buyback and ban of semi-automatic weapons like the AR-15.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: There was a shooting at a school this week. I
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: actually don't know what weapon was used. But regardless, I
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: think your policy is bold. I think it's the right approach.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: But I'm also... ground down by how difficult it's been
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: in my experience, even modest gun control policies like mandatory
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: background checks through Congress. How do you think that as president,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: you can build a movement and get this done?
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Well, it's taking advantage of the momentum that has shifted
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: in this debate and not negotiating down. After Sandy Hook,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: during my congressional orientation, that happened. We sought background checks.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Republicans wouldn't go for that. After Orlando, crazy idea that
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: if you're on the terrorist watch list, maybe you shouldn't
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: be able to buy a gun. They wouldn't go for that.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: After Vegas, guy took a semi-automatic rifle, converted it into
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a fully automatic rifle. And we just said, hey, let's
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: ban bump stocks. And they wouldn't go for that. Then
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Parkland changed. I think the dialogue in the country started
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: to change when you saw, again, kids slaughtered in their
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: schools and the moms and the Brady group and the
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Giffords group and every town have started to converge. And
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I think there's this gun safety majority now that is
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: more powerful and more of them than a very vocal tweeting,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: bullying minority that wants us to do nothing. So it's
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: really just seizing the opportunity and doing something.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: But what if those vocal tweeting bullies make up a
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: huge percentage of the Senate? What do we do about them?
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Beat them.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: You've got to beat them. Yeah.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: And there's opportunities now, right? Arizona, Maine, those are two
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: of the top targets. Colorado coming up. You've got to
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: beat them. Also, the senators, I think, should be pushing
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: to pass the background check bill there. We worked our
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: asses off to win the House. We beat 17 NRA-endorsed
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: candidates to pass background checks. We got people like Lucy
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: McBath in Georgia who lost her son and was one
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: of the leaders on the Judiciary Committee with me and
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: others to pass it. Now, we should at least be
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: forcing them to have a vote, whether it's filibustering or
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: what have you in the Senate, to get a vote there.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's really just building on that momentum
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: or making Cory Gardner explain to his constituents in Colorado
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: where they just had a shooting, you know, why he isn't,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: you know, pushing for background checks.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Senator Kamala Harris of California said that she would sign
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: an executive order mandating background checks for firearms dealers who
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: sell more than five guns a year. She wants to
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: close a loophole that allows some domestic abusers to buy guns.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Do you support those policies? And do you think we
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: can accomplish those things with executive actions?
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I do think gun violence is a, you know,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: national crisis right now. What I would hope to do
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: as nominee would be to support Senate candidates who could
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: win and give us a governing majority in the House,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: in the Senate, so you have the force of the
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Article I and an executive passing these laws.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: That is ideal.
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  Speaker 2: But I will do anything it takes to prevent more
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: and more loss in our communities. But in that spirit
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: of negotiating up, you know, not just background checks. I
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: believe that just as Australia did and just as New
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Zealand has done, that we can take, you know, assault
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: rifles out of our communities by banning them and buying
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: them back. And I'm the only, you know, candidate right
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: now that's calling for, you know, a mandatory buyback. And
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: it's not because I, you know, don't value the Second Amendment.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I say keep your pistols, your long rifles, your shotguns.
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  Speaker 2: But these weapons I saw when I was a prosecutor
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: are just different. They leave no chance And even if
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: they are a smaller percentage of the deaths in America
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  Speaker 2: from assault rifles, it's 100% of the fear that a
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: student has in their classroom is that they're going to
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: be victim of an assault rifle. And you can't measure
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: what that does to the psyche of a student who's
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: sitting in fear in their class today.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Would that buyback plan require congressional action and significant funding
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: to pay for the buyback?
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  Speaker 2: You know, the number I put out there, yes, the
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: number I put out there was $ 1, 000 an assault rifle. Essentially,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: it would be market rate. That's what Australia... did. We're
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: not going to get off as cheaply. They bought back
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: about 700,000. They haven't had a mass shooting since. We have,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: by estimate, about 15 million assault rifles in America. Now,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: that does not mean 15 million people own assault rifles.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: And if you watch the news, you know, this week
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: you saw that there was a Bel Air family What
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: was that? With thousands of rifles. A thousand guns in
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a house in Bel Air. What the fuck is going on?
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: A lot of people, they collect a number of assault rifles.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: And so you're not talking about 15 million people would
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: have to sell them back. It'd be significantly less. But again,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: part of the problem here is we don't even know
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  Speaker 2: who owns them because there's no federal gun registry. We
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: have information about when you get a driver license, we
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: know who has a driver license, who does not. We
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: don't know who owns a gun in America right now.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Cory Booker's talked about proposing that all gun
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  Speaker 1: owners be licensed by the federal government. Do you think
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: that makes sense?
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. Yep, and I support that.
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  Speaker 1: So your campaign mantra has been go big, be bold,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: do good. So besides the gun control policies we just
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: talked about, what do you think the boldest thing you
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: put forward is or the biggest idea you'd want to
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: implement as president?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and I hope people see that boldness on
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: gun safety can also be projected on education. healthcare, on
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: even governing. So for example, on healthcare, we're going to
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: have a coverage debate. I mean, absolutely, we have to
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: get away from this free market coverage plan where more
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: and more paychecks are being eaten up by prescription drug
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: costs or premiums. And as a father of two kids
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: under two, you become a healthcare expert when you're in
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: and out of the ER and I know not to
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: call my wife after she's been fighting an insurance company
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: all afternoon. So we live it.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Stay off WebMD. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That never ends well
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: That's right. Then you're like at the doctor's office.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: You're like, I know what this is, sir. They're like, no,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: you're fine.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: So I hope the debate also, and the boldness that
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: I would offer would be cures in our lifetime. I
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: see this generation that is very collaborative and inventive in
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: the private sector, but have lost faith that government could
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: be a partner. battles disease and wants to believe that
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: we can invest in genomics research, targeted therapies, data sharing,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: and using innovation as a way to bring down the cost.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: I'll give you an example. A friend of mine, Brian Wallach,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know him or not. Brian
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: worked on the Obama campaign, was a federal prosecutor. Last
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: year he called me and told me he has ALS.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: He's 38, two beautiful girls, and he represents a generation
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: that is going to do this on his own. He
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: started a foundation to take the fight to ALS and
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: find research. But he also wants to believe that his
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: government can be a partner and also invest in cures.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: And I want to be a leader for the ALS patient,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: the Parkinson's patient, the Alzheimer's patient, to believe that their
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: government is up to the job and that we're going
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: to challenge the country to invest in fine cures.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Yes. Brian is doing heroic work. And anyone who wants
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: to support that work should check out IamAOS.org because he
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: inspired all of us who worked with him. And, you know,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: it could be anybody.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But we're living through this like GoFundMe generation where
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: the hope is someone reads your story, clicks a link,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: gives you a chance. And I just think the government
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: should be someone you can count on.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I agree. So there's some other ideas that have been
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: proposed by other folks that some would call bold, others
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: would call unrealistic. I'm curious what you think about Medicare
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: for all, debt-free college, legalizing marijuana. Are those things you're
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: interested in talking about?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Medicare for anyone who wants it. So for me,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: it's a public option, recognizing that we're such a large
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: country that, you know, in some places, you know, say
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: you have a large, uh, steelworking population or you have
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of electricians in a community or a lot
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: of people who have the union plan and they want
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: to keep their union plan because that's what's most affordable
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: for them. I want them to be able to keep it.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I just think the government has a bigger responsibility to
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: invest in a public option. So Medicare for anyone who
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: wants it, that that would bring down the costs for
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: private insurers, but also that in a public option, we
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: would be able to negotiate for the costs of prescription
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: drugs that we could import prescription drugs if we could
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: make them safe and also make sure that any of
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: the manufacturers could be held liable if something goes wrong.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, that to me is doable. We
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: almost did that, as you know, when President Obama was
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: in office, but the Senate had, obviously, there was other
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: ideas on education. I'm the first in my family to
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: go to college, came with a cost, and paying off
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: just under $ 100, 000 now in student debt. And I see
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: this generation that is deferring the dreams of buying their
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: first home, taking a good idea and starting a business or,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: you know, starting a family. It's like a first date
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: conversation now, you know, how much student debt. Right.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: What's your interest rate? Yeah. That's like a.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Tinder category now. And so what I want to do
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: is put more money in more pockets to realize those dreams.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I think you can do two things that actually can
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: get passed and it's bipartisan. One would be to bring
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the interest rate to zero. so that the government's not
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: making $ 1. 6 billion a year on student loans. Two would
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: be to allow employers to contribute tax-free to their employees'
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: student loan debt, just like a 401k contribution. That's an
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: incentive for the employer to do that. When it comes
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: to college and this free college debate, I support free
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: community college. But for a four-year university, our college bargain
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: is if you work through college, you do work study,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: you work and you learn, and when you come out
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: and take your first job, If you do community service
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: hours for people or communities that need it, that adds
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: up to a debt-free education. So you work for college,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: college works for you. And I think it just represents that,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: you know, in the end, nothing is truly free. But
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: if you're giving back to a community, that that adds
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: up to a debt-free university, a debt-free college. And I
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: think I could pass that in the House. And I'll
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: just tell you, Tommy, the challenge I've seen being someone
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: who went to Congress when I was 31 was that, one,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: over half the Congress is made up of millionaires.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And two, most of those folks, most of the people
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: in Congress went to college at a time when it
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: was affordable. So they're completely or doubly disconnected from the
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: problem because their kids aren't taking on student debt or
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: they went to college at a time when it was affordable.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: So they just don't see this issue. Now we have now,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: and I've led a group called Future Forum in the
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Congress for the last five years. We have over 50
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: members on the Democratic side in our 40s and under.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: A large chunk of us have student loan debt. So
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I think this issue is just ripe.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: For action. Were you one of those members who had
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: to sleep in your office and cut corners?
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: It cost me a lot to rent, but I was not,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: you know, so shameless to do that. No, I don't
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: think anyone should sleep in a government building. It's just weird.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: It's just weird.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not ideal. No. I guess you have staff,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you have people trying to get in and out and
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: do their jobs.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: It's bad for your mental health, too. Get the hell
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: out of the office. Yeah.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's good advice. Speaking of Congress, the President of
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: the United States has been giving Congress the finger repeatedly recently.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: This morning, this is Thursday, Speaker Pelosi declared that we're
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: in a constitutional crisis. She echoing Congressman Nadler. Congressman Schiff
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: subpoenaed the Fulmuller report and related evidence. It sounds like
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: the House is about to hold Attorney General Bill Barr
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: in contempt. How do you think Democrats can fight back
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: against this obstinance and this utter refusal to put up
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: people like Don McGahn or others to provide testimony?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the best way out is through. You
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: just have to meet them with force and consequence. We
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: can't be on our heels with them because that's where
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: they want us. And so I start with the president's
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: own words. He said he's not going to cooperate at all.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Take him at his word. Start showing that there's consequences
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: for this behavior. I think Barr should be impeached. We
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: held him in contempt yesterday. That'll come to the full
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: house in probably two weeks. But, you know, this report
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: is not about red jerseys versus blue jerseys. It's about
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: a country that attacked us. It lays out the contacts
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: between the president's team and this country. And if he's
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: not willing to be a part of letting us see
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: what that country did and how we can defend our country,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: then he's got to be removed and show that there's
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: consequences for lawlessness. I think Steve Mnuchin is probably on
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: the same track. Like the law is pretty clear. You
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: have to turn over the tax returns. He's not going
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: to do that. Okay. Hold him in contempt. Seek to
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: impeach him. And I don't care what the Senate's going
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: to do. We should send it over to them anyway
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: and let them deal with it and let them explain
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: to their constituents why they think this person doesn't have
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: to follow the law. But again, pardon all the parenting metaphors,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: but I've got a two-year-old right now who like loves
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: to just throw his toys all the time. So I'm
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: doing the one, two, three method. My wife is really,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you know, it's harder for her to do it because
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: he's so cute. But I count to three. If he's
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: still throwing stuff, I take a toy, put it on
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: the fridge. And if I don't do that, he's not
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: going to get better. He's going to get worse. And
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: his little sister, the six-month-old, is going to see that,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: and she's going to be bad. And so I think, one,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I want to stop the president from getting worse. Two,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: I don't want future presidents to look at what this
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Congress did and say, oh, well, I can conduct myself
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: at that low standard because President Trump got away with it,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: and even a majority of Democrats in the Congress let
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: him get away with it. So you have to think
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: about present and future, and that means force and consequence.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: So we've had a spirited debate here on Positive America
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: over whether, not really whether impeachment is the right thing
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to do, because I think that 10, 11 counts of
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: obstruction of justice make clear that those are pretty impeachable
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: offenses and probably should be impeached, but whether it's a
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: politically advantageous thing to do for Democrats. So if we
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: move to impeachment, do you think that would help force
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Trump's hand in terms of allowing people to testify and
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: enforcing him to turn over documents?
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it would help force Trump's hand.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I think there are people who don't want to be
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: a part of that. And that's why I think Bill Barr,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: he needs a wake-up call. He's broken the law. He
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: thinks he can get away with it. But I think
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: he's actually a serious lawyer. And if we started to
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: move on impeachment of Bill Barr, I think it might
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: give him pause. And I think you might get him
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: to do what you want him to do, or he
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: would resign or be fired by President Trump. But I
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: think you have to start sending messages to these underlings
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: that we're not going to let them get away with
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: it and see if that shakes them up a little
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: bit to either comply or let Trump fire them. But
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: with the president, I honestly, I don't know. I couldn't
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: tell you if it's politically advantageous for us to move
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: on impeachment with him or not. I don't think we
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: should think about it that way. And I also think
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: that it's a chicken and the egg problem because if
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: you don't hold them accountable and you just go on
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: what the public opinion is right now, You may think, well,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: it's not popular. But if you did hold him accountable
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: and the public saw through hearings and testimony all the
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: stuff he's done, all the laws he's broken, you may
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: see the public dramatically change as far as what they
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: think about it. So if you think about it just politically,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I think you're getting it wrong.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Sure. But so there are sort of two options, right?
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: You can impeach or not impeach. If you don't impeach,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: we think we should have been able to hold a
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: series of hearings and to bring to life the Mueller report,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to get more testimony, to have people testify on camera
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: under oath, but he's blocking all those efforts. If you
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: begin impeachment proceedings, do you think that makes it easier
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to compel those individuals to come forward?
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I think he will still try and block them. I mean,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: and again, what's so crazy about this and so maddening
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: is the guy claims he's 100% exonerated, but he's 100% blocking, right? No,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I think he still figures that he can just try
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: and stand on these privileges he's going to assert tied
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: up in the courts. He seems to know, it's funny,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: he doesn't know much about civics, but do you remember
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: when he was talking about, I'm going to do this,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: they're going to sue me here, it's going to get overturned,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: it's going to go here. He knows the judicial system.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: He does.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: He's been in it a lot.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: So he knows.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: That he could probably try and drag this on for
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: a little while and maybe run out the clock. But
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I just think we're left with really no options.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: So that means you think we should- I think we're
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: on the road to impeachment.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I'm willing to exhaust these final remedies, but I think
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that's where we're going and it's unavoidable. It's not a
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: road any of us really wanted to go down, but
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's taking us there.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: You're on the intelligence committee. You get top secret briefings
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: all the time. on various intelligence programs, on countries, on issues.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Are there things you hear or areas you've been briefed
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: on that were you the most that you'd want to
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: focus on as president?
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Yes. I mean, certainly one, I want to make sure
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: that we put a hard stop to what Russia is doing.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And that means and not just in the United States,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: but just trying to, you know, really undermine democracies around
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: the globe. And the only way to do that is
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: one to stand strong with NATO, you know, continue to
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: see NATO grow and, you know, counter, you know, what
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Russia's doing in the region. I will say this. I
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: first thought like most people did when Russia did this,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: that they were doing it to get a transactional benefit,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: to put a guy in place who would reduce sanctions,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: pull us out of Syria, diminish the role of NATO.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: And they certainly, that was part of the collateral benefit.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: But the real reason that I've come to learn, just
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: seeing in the classified and unclassified briefings what Russia's done,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: they're doing this so that Russians don't ask for democracy.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Because they want Russians to look at our democracy and think, well,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: that's a shit show. We've turned them against each other.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: They have a point.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. In the last couple of years, yeah, they have
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: a point. So the best way to beat this idea
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: that no matter who you are, where you're from, what
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: your parents did, who you love, who you worship, if
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: you work hard, you can become anything. Because if that
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: idea could be true in America, it could be true anywhere.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: The best way to beat that idea from coming to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Russia is to beat it at its origin. And so
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: what they did was they, you know, used our freedom
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: of speech. They weaponized social media. They've turned us against ourselves.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: They have us questioning just exactly what they did to
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: help the person who won. And so Russians in Moscow
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: are not going to say, we don't want that. And
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: then when we call them out on the world stage
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: for human rights violations or encroaching into Ukraine, we have
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: less standing because we've got a mess at home. So
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: that's why they did it. And I think you need
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: a president who understands that, can counter that. What's so
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: frustrating for me, I think 10 years from now, we're
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: going to look at this The Mueller report came out
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: last month, laid out 200 pages of Russian contacts and
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: that Russia attacked us. And our president called the fucking
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: guy who attacked us? I mean, that is just insane
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: to me. Like he, at the president's request, it wasn't
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: like Putin's called five times, sir, you got to call
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: him back. No, he requested to call Putin, talked to
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: him for 90 minutes and described the call as Putin
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: was smiling. And then he was asked, Well, did you
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: tell Putin not to do this again? And he said, no, no,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: that didn't come up. Like, what, you didn't have time
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: for it to come up? It was a 90-minute call.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: And that's where our president is. I think people, you know,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: as this passes, are just going to say, that is nutty.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: That is absolutely nutty that the president of the United States,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the way he defended his country when this report came out,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: was he called the guy and described the conversation as
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Putin was smiling.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was also not a video conference for them
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: at home.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Was it a FaceTime? Yeah.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Who knows how they talk? Yeah. Your analysis of why
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: the Russians did that, it makes perfect sense to me.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: It's something I've heard from other Russia experts. It's particularly
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: worrisome when you see an adversary cutting down the idea
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: of democracy. And then the next week, the White House
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: invites someone like Viktor Orban, who's probably done more to
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: unravel democracy in Europe than anyone in the last decade,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: for an Oval Office meeting. I mean, when you hear
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: about things like that happening, how do you respond?
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: This president would rather be an authoritative leader than rule
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: in a democracy. Michael Cohen pulled me aside when he
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: testified a couple months ago to the Intelligence Committee. We
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: were both walking back into the SCIF, the Secured Compartmentalized
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Information Facility that we meet in, right? There's no phones,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: no cameras. You go into this facility and we had
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: a bathroom break and he and I just happened to
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: walk in at the same time. And he said to me,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: he said, you know, what really worries me about this
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: guy is that he won't leave office. that he's not
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: going to accept the result of an election. And, you know,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: that is a guy that has worked as a fixer,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: knows him best. And Cohen said, he said, this guy
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: wants to be a dictator. And he said, that's why
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: he likes Kim. That's why he likes Erdogan. That's why
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: he likes Putin. And that really worries me.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Do you think that's why Speaker Pelosi echoed that sentiment recently? Yeah.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: And it's because just as Trump is setting up well,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: the elections may be rigged, right? He did that in 16.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: He did that a little bit in 18. I think
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: you're going to see him start to do that again.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I think we have to seed for the American people
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: what this guy's instincts really are so that they're prepared
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: if he tries to do it. I mean, it wasn't
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: a coincidence that Jerry Falwell Jr. a couple of days
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: ago tweets, Donald Trump is owed two more years of
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: his presidency because of the Russia investigation. The president retweets it.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: and then starts to say almost the same thing. I mean,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, he would love to try and
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: do that. And so we just have, we can't be
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: on our heels this time. Like we need to make
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: sure that under no circumstances is that even discussed. And yes,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: she's right. Overwhelm the ballot box to make sure that
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: you can't deny the result. But your other question, I
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: just want to say, countering China economically is going to
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: be one of the biggest challenges also for the next president.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: You know, they're, they're an economic force. They don't really
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: respect intellectual property. We see that through economic espionage. We
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: see that through intellectual property theft. They continue to, again,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: as we're dealing with democracy challenges at home, they continue
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: to grow and expand their military presence in the South
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: China Seas. And I think the best way to take
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: them on is not to go one-on-one as this president
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: has done. I think he's correct and I will give
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: him credit that China, especially when it comes to trade,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: is a bad actor. But if you think about this
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: like a lawsuit, like when the little guy gets screwed
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: by the big guy, and right now when it comes
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: to trade, the trade deficit is so big between China,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: we can't really take them on tit for tat. But
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of other countries who are victims
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: of China's trade. So you form a class action. You
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: form a class and go at China with Australia, with Japan,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: you know, with South Korea.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Like TPP was supposed to do, basically.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, with better labor standards in Vietnam, right,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: and some of the environmental issues. But you, I think
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: you have to form a class. And he is alienated.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: He's insulted the Australian, you know, leader. He has told
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the Japanese and the South Koreans that they should get
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: their own nuclear weapons or pay us more for our
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: presence there. So I do see, you know, countering China
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: is a challenge.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, telling the Japanese and South Koreans to get
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: nuclear weapons is just one of those crazy, just unbelievably
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: insane things he says on a regular basis that just
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't even get really covered.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't think he understands why, like, if
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: we could have double the troop presence over there, like,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: that's a good thing for us to have a window
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: into China, look at what's going on in North Korea. Like,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: they are good partners for us.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of concern about the Russians, you know,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: The analysis you just walked us through, they probably look
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: at the impact of their interference and think that was
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: unbelievably effective. This worked out well for us. Maybe they'll
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: do it again. Or maybe the Chinese will do it.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot, you know, I guess the question is,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: what has been done to protect the integrity of our
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: election systems that you've seen and what, in your opinion,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: still needs to be done?
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I think the most important thing we can do is
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: have awareness as American people of, like, how our social
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: media platforms have been weaponized. And I think that sadly
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: comes from the top. Like you need a president to
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: unite the country, explain what they did, challenge social media
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: companies to not let this happen on our platforms so
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that when we see these types of divisive posts coming
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: from foreign intelligence services, we recognize it and we dismiss
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: it and it doesn't come into our political ether. That
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: takes leadership from a president. Right now, It's even with
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the majority in the house, like it's going to be
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: hard to like lead that dialogue if the president isn't
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: acknowledging what they did. So we can fund election security.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: He defunded, the Republicans defunded the $ 350 million that had
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: gone to election security and was supposed to go to
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: it in the last cycle. We can put that back
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: in place as we go into this budget battle, you know,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: in September. I've written legislation called duty to report. Senator
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Blumenthal and I have introduced it. It would require any candidate, campaign,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: family member, If you're approached with dirt on your opponent
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: by a foreign agent, you have to tell the FBI.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: About to introduce legislation, same thing for social media companies.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: If you see foreign interference on your platform, you have
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: to tell the FBI. So that we see it and
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: that they have a responsibility not to take, or if
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: they are taking money in rubles, as we saw last time,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: that the FBI knows about it and can counter it.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: But I really think it's awareness more than anything. The
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: hardest part about this is biting your tongue and not
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: talking about it too much because Republicans would love for
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: us to say that the Russians might influence the next
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: election because they want that single mom who's picking up
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: her little girl from daycare, has to get her bathed,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: has to get her fed on election day to think,
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: you know what? I can go to the polls, wait
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: for a half hour, but if the results are going
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: to be rigged, why does it matter? So they would
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: love for us to scream about the voting, the ballot
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: box not being secure. So we have to be careful
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: in how you talk about it.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Agreed. This morning, Chris Hughes, one of the original co-founders
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: of Facebook, wrote, quote, the government needs to do two things,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: break up Facebook's monopoly and regulate the company to make
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: it more accountable to the American people. just breaking up
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Facebook is not enough. We need a new agency empowered
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: by Congress to regulate tech companies. Its first mandate should
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: be to protect privacy. Do you agree with those proposals?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I think we need a national privacy law, like the
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: endeavor that Europe just underwent and now has different disclosures
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: that are made to consumers. And if any of your
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: listeners go to any European website or any website that
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: goes through a European server, you have to opt in
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: as to how your information is being used. I think
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: we can do that in the United States. I also
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: think we need a federal breach notification law right now. There's,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: you know, 49 different breach notification laws, you know, in
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: our country. And so when you have like the Equifax
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: breach or the Target breach, I think we should have
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: one standard, you know, so what we know. But the
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: challenge here, I really believe is, you know, our laws around,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: our antitrust laws were, you know, largely written around, you know, whether,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: you know, monopolies were causing the price of goods to
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: go up. And here, you know, it's almost the opposite, right?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: So it's really about how do you value data? And,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: you know, what are we giving up as far as
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: our data? Because Google and Facebook are free, but we're
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: giving up a lot, you know, as far as the
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: data they have on us. And second, you know, they
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: are gobbling up, you know, their competitors and their questions
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: about whether they are using, you know, the data they
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: have to gobble up their competitors. I think the best
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: example is with like Amazon. Like, you know, there's fair
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: questions about if, you know, like diapers.com, which was on
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Amazon and my, you know, we buy a lot of
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: diapers in our household. Um, if Amazon is using the
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: data of people who buy diapers, if people were going
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: on Amazon and buying diapers from diapers.com and Amazon is
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: using that data and then they manufacture their own diapers
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: and sell their own diapers based on the data that
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: they were getting from people buying from diapers.com, like that
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: may not technically violate our laws, but like it raises
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the question, like, do we need to rethink like how
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: data is used?
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: You know, so you're not putting businesses, you know, out.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Agreed. Quick foreign policy grab bag here. I'm not quick necessarily,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: but on Iran. So Trump recently deployed an aircraft carrier
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: and a bomber task force to the Middle East, reportedly
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: in response to some intelligence passed to us by the
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Israelis about threats from Iran. Have you seen that intelligence?
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: And do you think that the response was proportional or appropriate?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Well, what I can say is that I think the
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: president is being unnecessarily provocative with Iran. I think Congress
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: should demand that every person in Congress gets briefed on
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: this and that we very carefully set limits as to
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: what this president can do, because I see this in
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: just a few steps leading us into a war in
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: the Middle East. And I think the president is spoiling
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: for a war with Iran. I mean, he pulled us
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: out of the Iran nuclear deal, is going to punish
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: other countries and companies for doing business with Iran, which
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: is going to reduce money flowing into Iran. And I
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: think it's really spoiling for a fight and trying to
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: almost provoke Iran to do something so we could take
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: a strike. Now, all of that said, Iran is a
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: really bad actor. They fund terrorism in the Middle East,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: They're constantly targeting our ally in Israel. They have a
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: ballistic missiles program that is not in compliance with any
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: weapons treaty. They need to be punished. That's why I
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: supported the Iran nuclear deal. I thought the best way
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: to deal with a country that funded terrorism and had
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: ballistic missiles was to take away their ability to have
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: a nuclear weapon. We took them from three months to
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: a year. Now they're saying that they're not going to
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: follow all parts of the agreement. We're not going to
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: be able to you know, monitor them and verify what
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: they're doing. And so they're going to get closer to
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: having the nuclear weapon. And by the way, continue to
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: do that other stuff, which is going to force us,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: you know, to have to do something. I think we
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: may have to, in Congress, set some limitations on what
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: the president can do. That was something that, you know,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Speaker Boehner and Speaker Ryan were unwilling to do, you know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: whether it was through President Obama or, you know, President
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Trump as it related to Syria or the authorization for
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: use of force, you know, in Iraq and Afghanistan. And
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I think we need to update all of those.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Agreed. In China, the Chinese have put up to 3
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: million members of a weaker Muslim minority group into what
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Trump's own assistant secretary of defense called concentration camps. It
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: seems to me that this is a crime against humanity.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And given the scale, one of the most under-discussed, under-covered,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: under-acted upon things I've heard of in the world today,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: what do you think we can do to stop them?
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a crime against humanity. And the president
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: should include human rights when he discusses trade with China.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to be trading with a country
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: that is treating millions of people like that, or at
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: least trading with them and not bringing it up and
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: telling them that we're watching. This is something where the
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: United States typically would show leadership on, especially in the
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: United Nations. But instead, this president is having us pull
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: out of human rights conventions in the a president who
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: is alienating us, you know, from the world. And when I,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: you know, you'd mentioned earlier our mantra for the campaign,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: go big on the issues, be bold with solutions, do
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: good in the way that we govern. And this is
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: to me a part of like the doing good. Next
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: president's going to have to go on a global affirmation tour,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: take the oath, catch a plane, assure our allies we're
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: still with them, start to hold up again, you know,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: the principles that make us so special, you know, human rights,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: you know, freedom of the freedom of press, freedom of worship,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: getting rid of the Muslim ban ourselves. But I think
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: it's hard for us to have moral leadership and call
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: out the Chinese for the way that they're treating ethnic
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: and religious minorities when we have a Muslim ban in
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: place and we are separating women and children at our
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: own border.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You said on the intelligence committee, as we've talked about,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: you guys provide oversight of the intel community. Somehow our
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: most closely held, highly classified secrets And programs keep leaking.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: It started with WikiLeaks and there was Snowden. Then there
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: were the so-called Vault 7 documents that detailed the CIA's
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: global cyber espionage programs. It's a two-part question for you.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: How is it possible that this kind of material keeps
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: getting out? And two, do you think it's time for
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: us to develop some clear public rules of the road
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: that put limits and guardrails around cyber activities to include
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: what the U.S. is doing via the NSA or CIA?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: So one, I have supported expanding the scope of the.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: It's called PCLOB.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: It's the Public Civil Liberties Oversight Board.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Is that right? Throwback. I love PCLOB.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: So PCLOB used to have access to classified and covert actions.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Then their access to covert actions was taken away.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: When did that happen?
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: I think it was the last five years.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: So.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I want the public to have an independent authority to
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: look at what the intelligence communities are doing, to look
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: at any abuses. Now, some of these leaks that you
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: talked about exposed abuses. Now, that to me is not
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: a reason to leak, but I would rather that you
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: have an independent watchdog group who people could go to
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: and express concerns. And P-Club lost a lot of its
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: ability to do that when they didn't have access to
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: covert programs. Second, I am concerned that in the intelligence
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: community that we may be relying too much on independent contractors.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: And I would rather, and I get it, you know,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: there may be some jobs where, you know, people don't
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: want to commit to a career with the federal government
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: and they want to be an independent contractor. And to
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: get the best person to fill that skill, you need
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: an independent contractor. But you also give up something when
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: you don't have that fidelity to the government. And so
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I think we have to look at that. And then,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: you know, I chair the Intelligence Modernization Subcommittee on the
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Intel committee. I'm very interested in getting an intelligence community
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: that looks like America. You know, it's not a very
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: diverse group. You know, the briefers come in, they're widely,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: and you've seen this, it's white males, you know, and
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: a white male briefing me on like what's going on,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: you know, in Africa, or a white male briefing me about,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: you know, different, you know, Muslim terrorism groups. Like maybe
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: we could get, you know, people of color or, you know,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: just different, uh, you know, religious minorities, uh, to talk
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: to us about these issues. Cause one, they would just
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: culturally better understand them. And two, it's just, I think
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: it's better for us to defend the country with, you know, people, uh, with,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: with an Intel community that looks like the country. So
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: diversifying the intelligence community is one of my highest priorities.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I think that would also, uh, just frankly, you know,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: make us safer.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Um, pivot to politics here. So your parents, and I
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: believe your brothers are Trump supporters.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: My parents have a Trump Pence magnet on the fridge.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: I hope that's come down since I've announced.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: So you're a member of Congress. You're a member of
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: the intelligence community. You are probably better versed in the
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: facts and arguments against Donald Trump than anyone else in
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the country. Are you able to sway them at all?
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: And if not, should that to the hell out of
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the rest of us?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: I'm still going to want to see their ballots before
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: they mail them back.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: You know, my parents, I think, are of the swayable type.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: They're Ronald Reagan Republicans. They like someone who's tough and
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: represents America well. You know, they like that Reagan stood up,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: you know, to the Russians. They like someone who keeps
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: their taxes low and doesn't, you know, waste their money.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: They always would tell me, oh, Democrats, you guys just
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: want to tax and spend all of our money. So
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: I think one, like a president who recognizes the strength
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: that we have in the world is with our alliances.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: And that means, you know, fewer wars and like less
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: dollars we have to spend on defense at home. And two,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: calls out this president for the deficit spending, especially in
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: his tax cuts and the debt that's racking up, I
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: think you can appeal to a lot of Republicans if
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: you offer a vision that will keep us safe in
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: the world, but also be more prudent with the taxpayer's
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: dollar than this president is being. We're not going to
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: get all of them. I'm realistic about that. But I
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: go on Fox News a lot to make my case.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is probably the only way my parents
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: could see me on TV, but I don't want to
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: dismiss people who were counting on someone who said he
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: was going to raise their wages, lower their healthcare costs
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: and brighten their kid's future. Uh, but I, I do
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: want to dismiss the guy that's utterly failed to do that.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And I, I've seen the payoff of that. I've seen
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: people who probably will never vote for me, but come
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: up to me and say, Hey, I respect that you
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: go on there. And I think that's, that's the first
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: step is just getting like a mutual respect for some.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Of their viewers.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Second, uh, the people who come up to me and say, Hey,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not a Republican. I watch you on Fox News,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: but my husband is a Republican and that's all he watches,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: so I have to watch it. I'm getting that person.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I'm connecting with that person or the bartender who doesn't
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: have a choice in what's on the TV and Fox
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: News is on. So I think going into some of
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: these uncomfortable places serves us well. And it doesn't mean
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: I have to sign up to agree at all with
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: some of the crazy views of the hosts, but I
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: don't want to dismiss the viewer.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Are you seeing any indication that those people are peeling off?
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Because I do feel like there has to be a
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: lot of people who feel like that tax cut didn't
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: help me at all, who are worried about their health
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: care premiums going up, who feel like a lot of
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the promises are being broken. But I'm never seeing his
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: approval break through a floor of 39%, 40%. So I
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: have a theory on that.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: My theory is that his approval may stay the same
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: or slightly go up. but the number of people who
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: are Republicans is probably going down. And I actually, call
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: me crazy, but I think we've already done the hard work.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I think the hard work was the midterms. If we
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: had not won the midterms, we would be fucked. We
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: would be in real trouble. The hard work was winning
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: the midterms. And if you just look at where we won,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: we added two seats in Iowa, almost won a third
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: in Western Iowa where I was born. We added a
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: seat in Oklahoma. We added a seat in Kansas, almost
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: out of the second seat in Kansas, added two seats
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: in Texas. And then statewide, we won Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Those are the three states, three states we need. So
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: when I think about the next two years, like Donald
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Trump's not going to get better. Like he's not going
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: to fulfill the promises that have already been broken. He
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: had two years with a Republican governing majority and he
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: failed to pass the healthcare repeal, right? He tried to
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: build a wall and it shut down the government. And
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: he passed a tax cut that added to the deficit
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: and saw his majority wiped out. So he's not, things
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: aren't going to get easier or better for Donald Trump.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: So I actually think the sun's beginning to rise. We
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: just haven't really noticed it yet because we're still just
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: weathering the day-to-day drama of president Trump. But I think
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: the hard work was done in the midterms. And a
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: lot of them were those Republicans you're talking about, who
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I think came, came over and they're going to do
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: it again.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: In those sort of moderate districts. Um, You have talked
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: about the importance of representation and knowing when you can
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: speak to someone else's experience and you cannot. You've also
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: talked about how you would ask a woman to be
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: your vice president. So I ask this in the least
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: trolly way possible, but like some might argue that the most,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: you know, sincere form of promoting representation and equal rights
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: would be to say, support one of the great women
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: running for office. How do you respond to that criticism?
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: You know what? I may end up, you know, at
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: that point, and I look forward to doing that. I
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: happen to believe that, you know, I have an experience
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: of being the first in the family to go to college,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: seeing why my parents worked really hard and what they
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: expected it to add up to. And that when you
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: go on a journey like that and you have your
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: eyes open, you see all the other people who work
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: hard and they're not benefiting from a good economy or
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: a good stock market. They're just running in place. And
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: so I feel a responsibility to fight for them. I'm
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: still generationally optimistic that we could solve a lot of
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: these problems. And I bring experience of being in Congress
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: for seven years and on the Intelligence Committee to know
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: who our enemies are. And I think that's a combination
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: that can make sure that this country is one where
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: if you work hard, it adds up. It's one where
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: we can defend ourselves against the enemies that are attacking us.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: And I'm not going to be able to speak to
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: everyone's experience. But as I said, I know where to look.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: I see other identities. And I would put together a
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: diverse cabinet to lead the country. And I would ask
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: a woman to be vice president. And if my candidacy
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: does not develop out the way I hope it does,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: then yes, you know, I, I, there are plenty of
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: women who would make great presidents that we have on
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: the debate stage.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Um, last question for you. I mean, what I think
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: is particularly interesting and stark about your candidacy versus some
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: of the others is a generational gap. That is why
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, you've talked about how you still have student
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: loan debt. Um, you're not 40, you know, you're 38, you're,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: we're the same age. Do you think it's time for
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: some of the leaders in the democratic party who are
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: from that previous generation to, to, move aside and let
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: younger politicians get a shot?
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Well, I think when you think about that debate stage,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: who's going to be standing next to Donald Trump? We
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: want our candidates' ideas to be fresher than his. I
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: think that's really, really important is that our candidate is
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: one of new ideas, new energy, and offers new leadership.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: I think you're going to need that contrast. Now, That's
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: a mindset. I don't think that's a specific age or era.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I think it's a mindset. But that means you have
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: to understand automation and what it's doing to the workforce
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: and the anxiety it's causing. It means that you have
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: to understand this generation that's in student debt. It means
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: you have to understand how scared kids are in their
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: classroom today because they don't think anything's being done about
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: gun violence. If you have that mindset, then you can
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: have that contrast with the president. But if the president
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: has the freshest ideas on the debate stage, He's going
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: to be reelected.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Congressman Swalwell, thank you so much for coming by. It's
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: great talking to you.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Same here.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Thanks. Thank you.