Latest / The Rave Social Podcast / 5 How to Scale to a Social Media Management Agency with Caroline Langdon

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5 How to Scale to a Social Media Management Agency with Caroline Langdon · The Rave Social Podcast

0:11
SPEAKER_02: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Rave Social Podcast.
0:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Jaden, and today we have Caroline from Impact Media House.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: She is a literal boss.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: She's amazing.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: She's incredible.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, I've just kind of made friends with her through social media, and she came actually to Salt Lake a couple months ago.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: We met up for coffee, and I was like, you're just as cool in real life as you are online.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: She's built an amazing business, like while she worked full time, crazy.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: So she's gonna tell us a little bit about that, and we're just so excited to have her um on today.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: So, Caroline, why don't you tell us a little bit about you and what you do?
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes, so excited to be here.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Love Jaden, um, love everything you do.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: I am Caroline, founder of um Impact Media, a social media agency.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Basically, we love working with women-owned brands and helping them grow online, and it's less about beautiful graphics, beautiful reels, and more about creating and crafting strategic data-driven um strategies and that approach to social media and their email marketing and things like that.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: So that's definitely my favorite thing in my zone of genius.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, the journey to get here definitely has been crazy.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Everyone has a different story, but mine involved keeping my nine to five quote unquote job to build this dream out just because I'm very multi-passionate.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: There's, I mean, who isn't?
1:39
SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I'm a yes girl.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Right, yes and I love it.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: So you do social media management, you do like Pinterest, email, pretty much like you pretty much do everything, right?
1:54
SPEAKER_00: We prioritize organic, but yes, we do, we kind of cover all the social media platforms from yeah, Instagram and Pinterest are our jam.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: We also love TikTok, LinkedIn.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not big Twitter girlies, but you know, wherever the need is.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, blogs, emails, all of that.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: We don't do paid ads, but yeah, we love the organic.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, you're just seriously so good.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: Like for real.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: All the content you share is so valuable that like I can only imagine what you're providing for your clients.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: It has to be so good.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, I want to talk to you a little bit about how you did that.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: Like, how did you work nine to five and scale of business?
2:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, what kind of got you started there?
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is a great question.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: So, kind of my origin story is I was working on my speech pathology master's degree in Utah.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've always had a side hustle.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: I've, you know, started, you know, played business owner since I was 10.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: So loved that, you know, always doing something on the side.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: So my something on the side right then was nanning, um, you know, and helping out from care.com.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And I was connected with um a mom who was getting bigger on Instagram.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: And she is just amazing.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Her kids are the sweetest ever.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: I love spending time with that family.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: And so to get the opportunity when the kids were in nap time to do some behind the scenes kind of um working on her, you know, Instagram engagement or you know, uploading YouTube videos, things like that.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: So I did that for a year while I was still getting my masters.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: And after that year, I don't know what clicked, but it was something like, wow, this is something I love doing.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: It comes so naturally.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: I would love to expand and see where it goes.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: So after a year of doing that, I found an impact media house.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: This was like about a year and a half ago.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: And oh my god, that's insane.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: From there, I reached out to local businesses and was saying, like, hey, I'd love to do your social media.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: I can do it in exchange for reviews.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: I can do it, you know, for super cheap.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: I just wanted the experience.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's just forever my highest recommendation if you're wanting to get into this industry, is just take action.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, you you'll gain some confidence that way.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: But um, I still was pursuing speech pathology.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, that's what I went to school for for, you know, all my whole college, you know, career, and then also all through grad school.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I'm not gonna just give that up.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: But you are committed.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: I know I was like, we're we have this side hustle, it's great, it's so fun, I it comes so naturally, but I have my real job, you know, like a you know, as I should, you know.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: So I continued to do speech pathology, and I wanted so badly to be in the medical field.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, did all my research applied to all of the jobs.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: It was kind of during COVID, so no hospitals are really hiring.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: So I was just, I know, kind of stuck in this.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, maybe, you know, I'm just gonna wait it out.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: I'll do some school setting, and then I'll be in hospital, you know, the hospital setting where is that's my dream, that's what I'm supposed to do, blah, blah, blah.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I did remote teletherapy for speech pathology starting three years ago, and it ended up being the best fit ever.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: It aligned with my values of time freedom and kind of location freedom.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And so that made the opportunity to do a side hustle that much easier.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: And I had no idea.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: And so it opened, I think, a lot of doors to explore other things because I was working remotely and could live anywhere.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Um so that I feel like was a huge help.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, juggling two full-time things as the agency grew and as we, you know, uh grew out the team, and now we have 12 amazing members on our team.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a lot to juggle whenever you're also working to this.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: So I definitely do have some tips and tricks on how that's manageable.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: And just for transparency, I'm also still working my speech path job just because I enjoy it and I love it.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And I at a certain point thought, you know what?
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Because everyone was asking me, when are you gonna quit your job?
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Because that is the goal.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: And what's really put on a pedestal is quit your nine to five work for yourself.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm not disagreeing with that.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: I think that's amazing.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: But what no one really talks about is what if you do like your job?
6:28
SPEAKER_00: What if you really like that, you know, security, or what if you really like the what you're doing and you're passionate about it.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: So I really grappled with that thinking, well, I want to own my business and have this team and give it my 100%.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: But I also am multi-passionate and I really love helping others find a voice with speech pathology.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: I love working with the kids and it kind of um gives me a sense of purpose in a different way.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: So um I came to the realization I can do both, at least for now.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: We'll see where it goes.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: But what made that possible is time management.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: So, really needing to be on top of the weekly calendar, the monthly calendar, and looking ahead a year in advance um to really see, okay, how is this feasible and possible?
7:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, just following you, you're probably like, stop messaging me.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: But I'm always like, How are you doing all of this?
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Like, literally, how are you doing it?
7:25
SPEAKER_02: You always have like new offers, you're always bringing on new clients, new team members.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm just like, oh my gosh, she's not real.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you do it?
7:34
SPEAKER_02: But you do it so well.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, I feel like it's just because you're passionate about it.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: You're like, no, this is what I'm doing, and like you've made that decision, and like you hold yourself accountable and you just do it.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: And I uh truly what has helped is the education piece reading these books about okay, time management.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, if anyone has read the 12-week year, I live by that and can that could be a whole nother episode.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but really time management has helped that, but um, and delegation, kind of what you're saying is um, you know, it's only really possible with a team, and that is so true.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: I could not be doing both without delegating and having those proper workflows in place.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: So that's definitely contributed to it.
8:19
SPEAKER_02: So why don't you tell us a little bit about that?
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Tell us how you've been able to scale and like what are those systems?
8:25
SPEAKER_02: What have you done to build out a team that can support you while you're pursuing other things?
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: So the very beginning of my journey, I had, you know, I'm kind of I want to do my research before I jump in.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Everyone was saying their biggest regret in business was not outsourcing sooner.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: So I took that and ran with it.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we're outsourcing immediately.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: So literally first month of business, I had my first hire and I hired a copywriter.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: And she's still with our company today.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: She does captions.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: This was, I feel like, pivotal and me realizing, okay, this does not mean I'm just losing money each month.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, there is that switch you have to think about.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: It's scary just handing off something and then a lot, you know, your profits going to someone else.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: But you get over that hurdle pretty quickly once you start that process.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that was the first thing to go, and that kind of opened my eyes to the possibilities of the agency growing, kind of that thing is.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: But um, even before that, if someone is looking to hire and looking to skill their agency or their team, definitely outline outlining your needs beforehand.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, not just saying, okay, everyone's saying you should hire a VA first, so I'm gonna hire a VA first.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: That wasn't my need.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: I didn't need that.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: I had that, you know, back end covered.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: I it was a small operation.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: We had one client.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't really need a VA right now.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, so kind of outlining what are the needs, what's taking up a ton of your time?
10:00
SPEAKER_00: What do you not enjoy doing?
10:02
SPEAKER_00: That is your direction you should be going for starting to scale your team.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: But um, I would say one of the greatest things I implemented later on was an ironclad interview um kind of system and then an onboarding process.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: I would say the onboarding process of two new team members is essential to whether or not they're going to be successful in your agency.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Um kind of things to ask are do they know your processes inside and out?
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Because if not, then how do you expect you know those results if you never even trained them really thoroughly on it?
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And repetition's key.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: So we have um, we just brought on a new team member a couple weeks ago, and we have weekly meetings, they're an hour.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: We could do training, and it is a lot of training.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like from the beginning of my journey, I didn't want to offend anyone and their skill sets and be like, okay, you said you're a graphic designer.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: I trust you, just do it the way I like it, and then it maybe doesn't work out.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: It's just the way it needs to be is a lot of training and making sure that onboarding process really goes through A through Z on your company's values.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: You want people to get excited to be working with you, you know, you want them to have that buy-in and to um when they work for clients, it's not just for a paycheck, it is for the success of that client.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: And to kind of get to that point, you need to have that trust and you need to have that training.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that is kind of some of the workflows we've established that have been greatly improved from the beginning that have shown great results um in our agency.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel like even I've worked corporate jobs, uh, everyone has, right?
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Um and there were some where I was like not trained well at all.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And I just felt like there's no way for me to be successful at your company.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: Like you didn't train me.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: So I would, you know, I'm a go-getter, so I trained myself, but still I was like, this is so frustrating.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, you should be giving me the tools that I need to support your business and support these clients.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: And then I've also worked corporate jobs where I was very, very thoroughly trained and way set up for success and just understood the mission and just could jump in and like really do my best work from the start.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: So I just completely agree with that.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: And so you basically have just hired based on like need, like I I need someone to copyright for me because I don't really want to, or it takes too much of my time, it's not worth it for me.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: That was kind of like what made you decide.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: For that first hire, it took me a lot of time.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't something I necessarily super enjoyed doing.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: I love writing my own captions, but when it comes to, you know, other businesses, that was the first thing that I outsourced.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then as we grew and more clients came, we kind of saw needs in other places.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: So a need for an account manager to do the posting and do the live, you know, um reposting to stories and the live engagement and things like that.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, we found a need for, you know, really solid video editors that work in their zone of genius.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, so kind of seeing where it fits, where we need, yeah, um, just additional help.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: And we never want our team members to have burnout.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, just start doing it, but doing those weekly check-ins to see how things are doing, and then more formal, kind of 30-day, 90-day check-ins to be like, okay, what is working, what's not working.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Here's where I've seen lots of strengths.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: Here's, I think, where we can have improvement.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, so having those more formal check-ins, but also informal check-ins, I think are important to balance.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: And how do you make sure, like I'm sure there's going to be a lot of social media managers listening to this podcast?
13:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, for social media managers that want to build out a team, maybe they want to build out an agency or something like that.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: How do you, how have you coordinated with everyone?
14:02
SPEAKER_02: Because not everyone's working for you full time, right?
14:05
SPEAKER_02: So, how have you coordinated that to make sure that the deliverables are all on track, yet still like relevant?
14:13
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, you can't schedule things always a month out because in a month it might not be relevant or whatever.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you manage that part of it?
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: So we have pretty robust workflows in Airtable.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: And I just love Airtable.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: That's what our agency uses.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it definitely depends per client and per need.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: A lot of our clients are on that monthly basis, but in terms of say trending audios that do change, that's something that can be added later on.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's the biggest question I get with our calendars is like, hold on, what about trending audios?
14:47
SPEAKER_00: And so that's one way to do it is to um have the more evergreen content created, the video, and then add a trending audio, or um adding a blank space in the calendar, but filling out the rest of the calendar, then you can add.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
15:03
SPEAKER_02: Like maybe like throwing things in here and there.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: And do you feel like that's like manageable?
15:07
SPEAKER_00: Definitely with Airtable, it is nice because we have um and it depends per client, but say our copywriters go in and write all of the captions, then our graphic designer sees that, makes the graphics based on that and what's outlined per slide, puts it in Airtable, marks it as, you know, graphics done, whatever, video editor.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: So everyone can see this working document and see exactly the next step that's needed for them.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: So that it's not reliant on Caroline, what's next?
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Caroline, um, is the client ready for us?
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, it's like, okay, no, the ideas were approved, we're good to go, and then things are ready for the client to review.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: So um that's supportive, but also Slack.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: That is also very helpful for kind of like, you know, little things like, hey, you know, this isn't hasn't been uploaded yet, what should we do?
15:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, and problem solving there.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: But for the most part, airtable is really a seamless process for us.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: And we're really talking about, we're talking about social media management right now, but I mean, if you're not a social media management manager, if you're not an agency owner, I feel like this can still help you.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: Like having a workflow on how to create content will help you be consistent, which is just it truly is one of the most important things you can be in your life.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: And also on social media is just consistent.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, how can you set up these workflows?
16:31
SPEAKER_02: How can you use Airtable?
16:32
SPEAKER_02: How can you make it so it's easy for yourself to create the content and show up on social media?
16:38
SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's also important.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Right, definitely.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like there's that mindset shift you have to do as well when you're scaling or when you're growing or when you're creating systems or whatever, where you're moving from the hustle mindset, which you have you have to be in hustle mode in the beginning.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: That's just yeah, you know, you're you're growing, but moving to a systems mentality and an automations mentality.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: That shift, because you don't want to be hustling, you know, your entire life.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: We want to move in to, okay, this feels good.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: This system feels good.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think um honestly, not even too long ago, I'd say like uh six to eight months ago, I was just like, I need an overhaul of my workflow systems.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: I need to know what other people do.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: I was just so insecure about what I was doing because I'm like, surely there's an easier way than what I'm doing.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, surely, like someone's figured this out.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: No, I I spent probably hundreds and hundreds of dollars on coaching calls with incredible agency owners.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, honestly, I I could name several that we all just know in the industry.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to know one of your systems, you know, how does it work?
17:51
SPEAKER_00: And every single one, every single one was different.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Every single one.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: There was a minimal crossover with the tools they used.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, one agency.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: It's insane.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking, okay, surely there's just one platform where everything can be done.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: And no, that we're using Loom for reviews, we're using Airtable for reviews, you know, for client review, we're using Google Drive to upload content.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: It's the same process, different tools, like across the board.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think that was what I needed to see to know, okay, this is you need to choose what works for you.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: What makes you feel confident in your system?
18:32
SPEAKER_00: What is best for your communication style?
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Because you can do it a million different ways.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: That's probably, you know, like duh information, but no, it's not.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: It's not duh information because it truly does like I felt the same way.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: I was like, there has to be a better way.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is chaotic.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm using later, I'm using Notion, I'm using Asana.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: Like, aren't Notion and Asana the same thing, but like they're not.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: They do like they have different things to use.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: And so, same.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: I was like, there has to be a better system for this.
19:05
SPEAKER_02: And then I finally, same as you, I was just like, you know what?
19:08
SPEAKER_02: The best system is the system that works for me.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, is it simple?
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Is it straightforward?
19:13
SPEAKER_02: And how's I kind of did check in on my client experience side of things because it was like, yeah, I guess we could like approve content and all of that in Notion, but I was like, I really love the way that my clients can see it in later.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, you know what?
19:25
SPEAKER_02: I want my client experience to like match what feels good and what looks good.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, I just need to my systems to align with that.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just with you.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it is chaotic.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: This is such a freaking side note tangent, but it's so funny too because I sometimes see posts that are like, it's basically free to start a business, you know, you can get a Zoom subscription, blah, blah, blah, all these things.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, it's act it actually gets kind of expensive because once you have a later subscription, a Canvas subscription, like Adobe Illustrator, like you all these things, it adds up, and it's like it ends up being not nothing.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Um granted, it's still a lot cheaper than maybe a lot of industries, but I just find it interesting that like there isn't a tool.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: Maybe we need to make a tool.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Is anyone here a web developer, an app developer?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: It's true.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: And like for a small operation, sure, use Google Drive.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: It totally can be.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: But the more you take yourself seriously, spend money and invest in yourself and in your clients, then the client experience, like you're saying, is elevated.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: And so should your pricing to reflect that.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: And so should the overall deliverables be.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: So I think the more you do invest in yourself and in your business with these tools that do make life easier.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: The scheduling tool is superior to the free meta one.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Just yeah, that's a fact.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: And if we're using, I'm sorry if you're using meta.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's just yeah, you have to, but that is rough.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: It it's rough out there.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and yeah, it's we could yeah, talk about meta for a while.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm like, it gives me literal nightmares.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, so actually, this leads me to another question.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: So, as far as like pricing and the client experience, like, how do you I feel like oh my gosh, I talk of one of my other clients, I always talk to her about this.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: She's a business coach, and we're like, what does it mean to you know, charge what you're worth?
21:22
SPEAKER_02: Like, my mom thinks I'm worth a million billion dollars.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, she thinks I'm priceless, but you can't charge your clients based on that.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: So, like, how did you figure out how to scale your pricing to reflect growing your team?
21:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe even how did you communicate that with your clients?
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is a good question.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna have to think on that for a second.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: How did I start?
21:46
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: That's something I feel like that is one of the hardest things is to know how do I price myself.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Kind of like you're saying, this is a conversation that I feel like we've had a lot and we've compared to other people.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we've copied pricing that we Like that feels right, yes.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna use that, and it's a tricky topic to navigate for me starting out.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: I knew that I wanted to value experience and training over money always, and so in the beginning, my first two clients were either an exchange for testimonials or really, really, really, really, really cheap.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: To start out, I knew though, the payment I was getting was experience and confidence and um just the ability to take a peek inside a business.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: So payment structure in the beginning, very minimal.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: I was then um um, I did take a social media manager course.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: It was not my favorite, it was um probably everything I could YouTube, so that was a little rough blow, but it did tell me, you know, hourly is not what we should be doing for kind of these.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Once you have the experience, you're kind of they're paying for your experience, your tools, and your hourly.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: So from there, I kind of pieced out how long does it take me to set up and optimize an account, create X amount of posts, create X amount of reels, create captions, listing item by item everything that was needed for this client, finding out my hourly, what was a comfortable rate.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: I kind of based it on my speech pathology salary, kind of rough range, and then added a couple hours to have wiggle room, and then whatever percentage of the tools that I would be using, the cost of those.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: That is how I packaged out my pricing, and that's how my pricing is based today.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Um and so as I continue to take trainings and courses as the team grows, as expenses grow, um, there is, you know, typically, you know, annually, I think it's that 20% margin to kind of be looking at everything.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Um I will say, with price increases for current clients, I would tread lightly.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of I think that's something I was not really told in the beginning.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: And I just put out price increases when I was like, yeah, it's time.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: And that puts a really bad taste sometimes in clients' mouths.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: I think sending out a price increase, nothing wrong with that.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: When it's done tactfully, respectfully.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was doing tactfully and respectfully, but I realized my clients are loyal, kind, they do a great job at being responsive, you know.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: So at a certain point, you do have to weigh, is this increase necessary for the profitability of my business?
24:50
SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, is it something?
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just kind of weigh the pros and cons.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: I think you should absolutely have price increases as the years go by.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: But for current clients who are loyal and kind, just I'm thinking about, you know, service providers I use.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: And what would I think if they were saying it's an upcharge?
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Would they explain they've done this amount of training additionally this year?
25:15
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna be implementing this with my account, they're gonna be implementing these new tools.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: I will pay more for that.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: I love you.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's like, hey, it's another year, inflation.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, I need 20% more.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Like that sounds greedy and puts a bad taste in my mouth.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: So I think the way you go about it um should be very thoughtful.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: I think so too.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: And just like you said, like it's like Netflix when they're like increasing the price every year, it's like you're literally not like you're you're not offering me anything else.
25:48
SPEAKER_02: Like, why?
25:49
SPEAKER_02: Why is it going up?
25:50
SPEAKER_02: It does not make any sense.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: Also, you're kicking off my friends that have my password, like rude.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: No.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: So don't raise my price.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: But again, like if I'm working with other service providers that are like, you know what, I'm raising my prices, we've expanded our team, we now have a dedicated rep for your account.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: We now have um, you know, a dedicated portal, you know, just upgrades in your business, upgrades in the client experience, um, upgrades in your learning.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: Again, you can be like, we've taken these courses, we've learned all this strategy, like we are now, we're just we're more valuable now, so we're raising our price.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, again, like you can so do it tactfully and not out of greed.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I do think it's challenging at the beginning.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: I think you and I are honestly at similar places.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: You've scaled a lot faster than me, which it's not about comparison at all.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm very happy with my growth too.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: The podcast, yeah.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Different things.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: The podcast, yay!
26:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, but like you really have scaled faster than me.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: But we're I've I've also been doing it for about 18 months, about a year full time.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: And I just don't feel like I'm at that spot yet, which I think is totally fine, you know.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not a business coach, someone might disagree with me, but it's like you can kind of tell when you just want more money or when you're actually providing value and delivering better results, I feel like.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's something that so I am a type three Ennegram.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Do you know your type?
27:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I think I'm a two.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Wait, no, I'm a three, I think.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: Which one is that?
27:27
SPEAKER_00: So three is like high achiever.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I'm a three.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: I feel like in the business world, I see a lot of threes, which is I love it.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: But something with threes is that high achieving next level.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Let's set the next goal.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: How can we reach it?
27:41
SPEAKER_00: And this can look obviously different for different people and manifest in different ways.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: But I've had to have the same conversation with myself, not really about profitability, but just like, am I doing this because I want to have an agency or am I doing this because, you know, um, for status?
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Am I doing this because I just want to own a business?
28:01
SPEAKER_00: Am I doing this, you know?
28:02
SPEAKER_00: And so I hired a business coach um just last month.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I had one previously that was a social media manager business coach who was amazing.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, her name's Anya, ask Anya Media.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: You can check her out, she's awesome.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: But um, I was wanting to kind of have overall big picture business um support.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: So I hired a business coach, and something she said that is so profound is you're never behind.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: You're never behind.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: And something that I was just thinking, okay, because I'm always reaching the next goal.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: 2024, we're gonna do XYZ.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're gonna hit this.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do this weekly.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: I broke it down in my 12-week year.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: I have poster boards up.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, let's get it.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, you are never behind.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Cause I'm thinking, I'm gonna be traveling this year a lot, like for most of the year.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, well, I was wanting to do a group coaching.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: I thought that'd be really cool, but I don't think I have would have space for the time that I would want to dedicate towards that.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: So I'm thinking, yeah, to push that off to 2025.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, I hate that, you know, all this.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: It's just like you're never behind.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: You're never behind.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: So stop thinking you are, like thinking you need to catch up with those things.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: And everyone grows and scales so differently.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm different from you because you've hired out a team.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you have anyone full-time, but I know that you have a bunch of like contract or part-time people.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: And for me, I felt like I needed a little more control for my own personality.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: So I hired a full-time employee instead of contracting people out.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: And like, we're just different, we're scaling differently, you know?
29:39
SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, like you said, you're not behind, and you're also probably not doing it wrong.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think on social media, oh, this has just been like so something that I'm passionate about lately.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, on social media, it's it's become kind of unethical.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: You see so many hooks that are like, how I made 100K in a month.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, these are legit hooks that I see with my actual eyes.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: This is how you just launch a digital product, you get passive income, you're rich.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, stop telling people that.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: Buy my two million dollar course, and I'll teach you how to make like you can ROI 39 exit in a month.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, you can't.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Stop.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: It's like viral videos, like someone expecting a viral video.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: It's a similar thing, it can happen.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Are there things you can do in place to make it more realistic for that to happen?
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes, but you cannot promise that.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Like these people are promising results.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you probably can launch a digital product.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Maybe your post goes viral and it sells out.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: It's possible, sure.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that is not reality.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: It's not likely and it's so damaging.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: Like, I've just noticed it, I've just noticed it being damaging for myself because I see these posts and I'm like, what am I doing wrong?
31:00
SPEAKER_02: What am I dumb?
31:01
SPEAKER_02: Like, am I a dummy?
31:02
SPEAKER_02: How come I can't figure this out?
31:04
SPEAKER_02: Because I've always felt like I was smart.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: I always felt like I was a high achiever.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: Like, I work really hard.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: I don't ask for handouts.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: I don't even ask for it to be easy.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm down to work hard and I see these and I'm like, what am I doing wrong?
31:19
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, you're not doing anything wrong.
31:21
unknown: Yeah.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: They're they're honestly doing something wrong.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: It's their marketing strategy that's sleazy.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not here for that.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm not here for sleazy marketing strategies.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: No.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: And what makes it worse is that those are the ones that get tons of views.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: And so you're kind of obviously right.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: So you're like, oh my God, whoa.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: So you're stuck in this cycle of, okay, well, I want to let say my clients get these awesome results, but we are wanting to do it ethically with marketing.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: And so we're not going to do these clickbait hooks, but then you may not get see that insane reach that way.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: So it is kind of this am I doing this wrong?
32:00
SPEAKER_00: What am I doing?
32:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, kind of thing.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: But I will say that, and you probably can relate, has been the root of my burnout every time I have burnt out.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, I've burned out like a couple times since saying this.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just a couple.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: But the root every single time was comparison.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: And I just I feel so passionately about that too.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Is you know, in the beginning of my journey, say I saw someone else who's also in their beginning of their journey, and then they scale to 10K immediately.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: That hurt.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, what were you doing that I wasn't doing?
32:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, and it just it can consume you subcon like subconsciously, you know, and I feel like it can change the more you go in the journey of, well, they have a team that is so fun, and they all get together, you know, and they have these fun calls.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: What about my team?
32:55
SPEAKER_00: And what if they're reaching this amount per month?
32:57
SPEAKER_00: How in the world are they doing that with their one course offer?
33:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, it just it can you can spiral.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: You don't know the full picture.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: No, you don't know.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you just don't know.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: You don't know the ins and outs of their business, you don't know what support they've had.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, not that it's bad to have support from family, but like some people do have more access to like funds to get started.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: Some people are more bootstrapping, both are equally respectable.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's amazing for you if you had that opportunity in your life.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: I didn't, but that's okay.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna be in different places.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: I think it's just so important to remember that like there is enough business to go around to, like, there just is, especially in social media management.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, there's a lot of social media managers, yeah, there's a lot of agencies, but there's also a lot of businesses.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes, so many businesses that need your product and your service of being a social media manager, so it's like it's just not it doesn't need to be that competitive.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I'm just with you.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't I think the comparison is absolutely the killer because, same, anytime I've burned out, it's been like because I've been like, oh, I started at the same time as these people.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, how come like my reels aren't doing as good as their reels?
34:08
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it's like you just don't know.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you don't know it's I've been so happily surprised by say reels that don't get as much reach as you hoped.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you know, we're talking, say it gets 500 views, for example, say it's an account, and I'm so surprised how sometimes those are the ones that get clients.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm blown away from this past year seeing the just this discrepancy in my beliefs of if it goes, you know, super successful, gets 30k views, it's going to get my client clients, it's gonna get my client, um, my you know, customers.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Whenever sometimes it is not.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: And I'm seeing more and more from bigger kind of influencers, bigger brands, bigger accounts, their promotional ones, and this is just expected, do not perform as well, you know.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: And I'm kind of surprised sometimes seeing accounts that do have hundreds of thousands of followers, and their account um photo promotional gets a couple hundred likes.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, engagement's weird right now.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not, you know, this these things happen, but those, you know, you can go in the comments of some of those, and they're just like people have hands raised, ready to work with you.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's from all the foundational work you put prior.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: And absolutely, I think that can be really reassuring if you are comparing views and likes and things like that, knowing just, you know, you don't know what might resonate with someone.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: And that's why you do your data analytics, that's why you look and kind of see what did get hands raised, what did perform, blah, blah, blah.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't have to be views and likes.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: And that's sometimes I think what we look at in followers.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Whenever sometimes it's just that I mean, especially, especially as social media managers, it's like we're trained to.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: I also think because like real number, like likes, likes and comments are a little bit less like obvious to a degree, but real views, so obvious.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: Like you can just go on anybody's profile and see like about what they're getting on reels and stuff.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: And it's so easy to compare and be like, I'm posting like the same level of content, the same amount of value, the same, you know, I'm using good hooks, like what's happening, but yeah, it's like it also and also they could not be making money.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: That account that's doing really, really good could not be making money, like they could be struggling while a smaller account that has really good um community or really good relationships is making plenty of money.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, right, dude, I just think it's so different.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: Um what would you say to a business, maybe a social media manager that's wanting to grow an agency?
36:48
SPEAKER_02: What would you say to do first?
36:52
SPEAKER_02: I know we talked about hiring, but like what what kind of like foundational things?
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: So to do first when you're wanting to grow your agency or just start freelancing as a social media manager.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: I would say grow your agency.
37:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, okay.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: So at this point, I would hope you would already feel really comfortable posting, creating, you know, whatever your job is, be really comfortable in that role because by expanding and hiring on, you're gonna need to explain every aspect of what you're wanting to hand off in what you're currently doing to someone else.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: So if you are not crystal clear on your video editing process and caption writing process, et cetera, your team new team member will not be crystal clear and it's not gonna be producing what you're wanting.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: So I would say have down your own personal workflows and write out your SOPs, create an onboarding guide.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: I'd say step one, create a fun.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: We have an impact media onboarding guide.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: You learn about our values, you learn about the other team members, expectations.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, something that we really prioritize is joy in our agency, communication, and integrity, and just really wanting to instill that into our team so that every single client that comes or interacts with us, they're met with just joy.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: We want to be really happy in our business and let our clients be really joyful and doing what they do best and not worrying about social media or worrying about it as much as they would like to worry about it, you know?
38:27
SPEAKER_00: So kind of instilling your values and purpose and mission in your onboarding guide along with all of your SOPs.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: And for those who may not know, standard operating procedures.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: So that's your step-by-step exactly how you do this, that, or the other.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, our captions SOPs, something along the lines of we want to start with a good hook that relates to the caption.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have emojis or white space depending on brand tone of voice.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: Refer to the brand's tone of voice document to see what emojis they do like to use, tone of voice, um, words, phrases that they like, um, end with a call to action or a double call to action.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: So this can be one leading to engagement.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: This can be one leading to a promotion.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: If there's a double one, we like to start with the promotion, end with the engagement call to action.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: So kind of putting in expectations for captions.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: It may differ.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: If it's more of a luxury jewelry brand, it'll be more minimalistic.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to be throwing into call to actions.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: That's way overboard for the brand.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: So kind of outlining, outlining expectations per brand, tone of voice, that kind of is an example of step by step.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: I also love to include Loom videos to all of my SOPs because I am a visual person.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, if someone gave me SOPs, um, I'm not really gonna read them.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: I get the gist, but if I had a video to watch, I'm in someone showing me, talking me through it.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: I love hand holding.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's what I would prefer.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: So that's what I put in.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: I love visuals.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for someone wanting to take that first step to scaling their agency, having a solid onboarding guide, that would be my biggest recommendation.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: What do you do and how do you handle either a naughty client or firing a client or those tricky client situations?
40:20
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like that's a hot topic, especially when you start to scale.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I am still mastering this.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: So let's do a podcast episode later on when I've mastered it.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: But as of now, um, so I thankfully have had, for the most part, incredible clients.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: They are responsive, they do upload content.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: I am so, so grateful for that.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: But we have had a few clients that are from hell.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Maybe just one.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Maybe just one.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we cut that out.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: We've had a really hard client.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: And so for this client, um, there was no communication.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: We would send out the calendars, we would get very minimal replies.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, and at a certain point, she um oh, what do you call it when you mark it as fraud on your bank account uh account?
41:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I think you just yeah, that's what she did.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: She marked uh her payment as fraud and got a full refund, uh, but I disputed it.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: So I ended up getting it back because of my really good contract.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that's another excuse.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: I got my contract from your lady.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: Um absolute gem.
41:38
SPEAKER_02: We'll link, we'll link the contract lady.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: What is her name?
41:43
SPEAKER_02: Solivant legal?
41:45
SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: She's amazing.
41:47
SPEAKER_02: We'll link her because you need these contracts.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: Contract is the one my social media business coach uses.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: It is, I mean, the best contract.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: It covers everything and it covered my butt on this particular dispute because it said in detail things I didn't even really look over or know that protected me.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so thankful.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: So that and she also, this lady um that we're talking about with the contracts, um, I bought her 1099 kind of contractor um contract that I use for my team members, also ironclad, would highly recommend.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: They come in a bundle if you want to.
42:23
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, little plug for her, she's amazing.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: She is.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: So she disputed your charge.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: And then Okay, she disputed my charge.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, I got money back because of that awesome contract.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: But when I addressed it, she was like, Oh yeah, totally an accident.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Okay, we'd had some scuffles in the past of her not replying, and and then I don't know, she had said the first month, she's like, uh, this isn't the content that I'd wanted, and we were like so confused because it was, I don't know, a line.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: So then the next month she's like, This is perfect content.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: We're like, okay, not much has changed between the two, but I'm glad you love it.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: So we did the next round, no feedback.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: I think I'd sent like three or four emails in a row, just checking in, like, hey, we you have anything you'd like to upload, otherwise, we're just gonna run with our ideas.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: And then she said, I think it's obvious I want to cancel.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh, I'm so sorry.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Like it's obvious.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: You said you loved it last we chatted.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: I was so confused, just minimal communication, very odd.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: And then she kind of ended things really nastily by sending me an email saying it's really clear I don't love what I do and how I'm here just for the money.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: I I was so shocked, and I've never cried so much about a client from start to finish with this client.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: And I learned my lesson on just, you know, there is a clause in my contract that says if they're being difficult or not responsive, it's okay to terminate.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: And I should have terminated sooner, but because we had the three month contract, just because three months we see results for our clients, it's like I mean that's what our contracts are.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: Um I held to it because I wanted her to see great results.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: But um that yeah, it it's it's just in that learning process, though, you just don't know sometimes because in the beginning she's amazing.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: So and you don't know, and also it's not about the money, lady, but you're also trying to run a business, pay your staff, pay yourself.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: And so to a degree, it is a financial burden if you are if you need to terminate a contract, you know, because it's like, okay, so now I need to replace that income or whatever, or whatever.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, obviously, you have margins for a reason, so that if you lose or gain clients, like it's okay.
44:42
SPEAKER_02: But still, when you're starting out, it's less like that.
44:45
SPEAKER_02: It's more, you're more like, no, I really need this income in order to stay afloat, and so I don't want to terminate this contract.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: I want to give them good results, I want them to keep working with me.
44:55
SPEAKER_02: Like you want the best for them, and you you need the best for yourself as well.
44:59
SPEAKER_02: So I totally get that.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: I had a similar experience.
45:02
SPEAKER_02: She was very kind, actually.
45:04
SPEAKER_02: She was not nasty, but I had a similar experience where it was like I couldn't get anyone to respond.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: And so I did actually have to terminate a contract early, and I didn't want to.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: I really didn't want to for myself and for her.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, we were doing really, really well.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: We had reached all of her goals, like her content was really performing well, and she she was really starting to grow her business, so it was kind of like rock bummer.
45:31
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I've been there, it was not fun.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it just comes to show, you know, sometimes people will not be aligned for your business.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they aren't ready for social media management, but not on you.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: Because similarly, it was a new account.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: We were seeing growth.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: I thought things were going really well.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: So you just yeah, in that moment, just you can't take some things personally because if you outlined literally, you know, what we did or what went wrong, it's like nothing but the client's perspective.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: And it so it's just kind of confusing.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: So knowing like not everyone will be good fit, it's okay to let go of clients and have a good contract, have a good contract.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Also, yeah, I would say the more you grow and scale, you have the luxury to be a little more picky.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: And I would say, um, just in general, I don't know why, but it seems to be the most difficult clients are the lowest pain.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: So she paid the least amount of money out of all of our clients.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: She wanted a smaller package.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: We're accommodating.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: We can definitely do that for you.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: And why is that?
46:38
SPEAKER_00: The lowest pain are the biggest pain.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but it's true.
46:44
SPEAKER_02: I saw this post one time and it was like your 1k client who's like asking for all this out of scope work, and then your 50K client, which that's a big gap, but it's like your 50k client that's like funds transferred.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: Bye.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, it's true.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: But also I feel like my clients who my clients who understand the investment and are ready for social media management, even if they're on a lower tier package and they have a good energy behind it, their content just does better.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: I am a woo girl, but I'm also a data girl.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: And I just believe that like if you if you if you're holding on to that money that you're investing in social media with freaking two hands and you're holding on so tight, and you're like, this better be the thing that makes me money.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: It's not going to.
47:32
SPEAKER_02: It's not going to.
47:33
SPEAKER_02: But if you are ready to invest that money and know that there's going to be wins and losses, and it's an it's a long game, and it's truly an investment in your business, that's when you're gonna see the success.
47:47
SPEAKER_02: It just is.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: It's it must be a universal law.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so too.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think where I would love to see impact media go into is the space where we can't work with you unless you have your branding solidified, unless you have a winning product or service that is established.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, at least one, we can grow with you.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: If you're creating one, we can help.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: But we can't, you know, I just feel like when those clients come along that do have solidified branding, they have assets we can use with video and photo, they're we see exponential growth.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: That is really the sweet spot.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: So whenever we're maybe creating a new offer for a client because she wants to just say be an influencer or either things like that, it gets a little bit in the gray area because they're relying on us to be a lot more than our role of social media manager.
48:42
SPEAKER_00: I think that's what the disconnect is.
48:44
SPEAKER_02: I agree too.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: Like that's kind of my like onboarding process and my like um application process.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: I've gotten a little bit more like dialed with what I ask to see, like, are you ready for social media management?
48:55
SPEAKER_02: Because you do need to be ready for it.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: And not everyone is a good fit.
48:58
SPEAKER_02: That's just the truth.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Um awesome.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm I will wrap this up before we get off.
49:05
SPEAKER_02: I just want to ask one question.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: What is one piece of advice that you wish you could go back and give your younger self?
49:13
SPEAKER_00: I love this question.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: And I thought a lot on it, and there were a lot of fun, cheesy things that could apply, but truly what came first to mind was it always works out.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: This applies to me thinking I should be on a different business path, or you know, doors were closing, or clients left, dream clients came, you know, whatever it is.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: It always, always works out.
49:41
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Full support, yes, queen.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: That's what we need.
49:47
SPEAKER_02: It's the truth, it does always work out, even when it feels like so painful.
49:52
SPEAKER_02: It's just like this is just pointing you in a new direction.
49:55
SPEAKER_02: The only time it doesn't work out is if you decide to not work out, like right.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: And I think of my dad always used the analogy of a peanut bar, a peanut peanut butter jar lid, where if it's kind of put on the wrong way, you can try as hard as you want to make it work.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: You can do everything you want.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna work out, and that wasn't supposed to be that path that you're choosing.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: So don't force it.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: It's okay, it will work out.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Not doing it that way.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: And you can try something else.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: So just kind of that reassurance of yeah, you're never what was that saying for my business coach?
50:30
SPEAKER_00: You're never uh you're not behind.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're never behind.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: You're never behind, and it always works out.
50:37
SPEAKER_02: So true.
50:38
SPEAKER_02: We're all on our own paths, too.
50:39
SPEAKER_02: So let's not compare and try really hard not to compare.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: It's difficult, but right, a healthy comparison of being like, okay, wow, this is possible for me.
50:50
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: Supportive comparison, sure.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: When it affects our mental health, well-being, and we're starting to compare numbers, etc.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: Not healthy, take a step back, turn off your phone.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: Turn off your phone, throw your phone in the river, get rid of it.
51:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
51:09
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
51:11
SPEAKER_02: I loved having you.
51:13
SPEAKER_02: This was such an amazing conversation.
51:15
SPEAKER_02: I will make sure to link all of your info so that anyone listening, you guys can get it in the show notes.
51:20
SPEAKER_02: And we will have you back soon, I'm sure, of it.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: Yay! Thank you so much, Jaden.
51:25
SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.