Latest / Authentic Living / Functional Medicine and the ROR: Return on Relationships (Part II) with Dr. Sandra Scheinbaum

Transcript

Functional Medicine and the ROR: Return on Relationships (Part II) with Dr. Sandra Scheinbaum · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Our interview last week was so good that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
• 0:41
  If you missed last week, you'll find the link in the show notes.
• 0:45
  It's not mandatory that you listen, but we wanna make sure that you don't miss out on this
• 0:51
  amazing conversation.
• 0:53
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:54
  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:55
  I'm, really happy today to have colleague, Sandra Scheinbaum, she is a clinical
• 1:01
  psychologist.
• 1:02
  So we share a bit in common, you know, in the field of psychology, and, formally trained as a
• 1:09
  clinical psychologist, but now she is a functional medicine expert.
• 1:14
  She has a coaching academy for functional medicine, that she's, started quite a long time
• 1:20
  ago now and we are also privileged to, also belong to the Forbes Council where, that's
• 1:29
  where Sandra and I met.
• 1:30
  So, Sandra, thanks so much for coming out in today, and sharing your wisdom with us, on my
• 1:37
  show.
• 1:37
  Well, thank you, Roxanne.
• 1:39
  It is such a pleasure to be here.
• 1:41
  Intuitive, everybody knows to heal how what it needs to heal, but if we're doing things,
• 1:47
  that's diametrically opposed to health, and we're not aware.
• 1:50
  Right?
• 1:50
  Like, maybe someone is going to see a clinical psychologist, but you know, they're they're
• 1:56
  taking on massive massive amount of changes, or maybe they're in a relationship that's really
• 2:02
  draining mom or it's detrimental, you know, there's conflict every day, and you're looking
• 2:07
  at parts of the whole, like the traditional kind of western medicine just says, Europe
• 2:13
  saying you've got a bit of anxiety.
• 2:14
  You're having panic attacks.
• 2:16
  Here's the anti anxiety medication that you need versus saying, Okay.
• 2:21
  In Canada, I think the average position on it, you know, in the US, I'm gonna say it's
• 2:25
  probably different, maybe not.
• 2:27
  The average family physician sees someone, Sandra, about 6 minutes.
• 2:33
  Mhmm.
• 2:33
  Yeah.
• 2:33
  Minutes.
• 2:34
  So you're lucky if you say why are you there?
• 2:38
  What are the symptoms if you can articulate it enough and to see potentially what you've tried
• 2:45
  And here's the next, you know, up and coming popular anti anxiety medication.
• 2:50
  Here you go.
• 2:52
  And that's the extent of it.
• 2:54
  So let's talk about that bridge.
• 2:56
  I'm gonna assume that, with functional medicine, you're looking at physicians or
• 3:01
  people that are wanting to do that work, but what what does Western medicine think of
• 3:05
  functional medicine?
• 3:07
  Is there a divide?
• 3:08
  Because I'm interested because I think when you work with companies, you know, they would look
• 3:12
  at the pharmacological training analysis of what employees are using, but are they willing
• 3:18
  to look at the overall perspective of some of the things that you might be able to show them?
• 3:23
  Sure.
• 3:23
  So, the divide was great.
• 3:27
  I love when I was starting this work, late seventies, early eighties, And I would have
• 3:34
  meetings with physicians.
• 3:35
  I remember one cardiologist.
• 3:37
  He I was in his office, we were talking about how breathing and mindfulness.
• 3:42
  We didn't talk about meditation much back then, but it was use of relaxation techniques and
• 3:47
  breathing.
• 3:48
  How that would help his cardiology patients.
• 3:50
  And he stood up, and he held up the New England Journal of Medicine that was on his desk.
• 3:54
  And he said, Shame on you, you went to Northwestern University.
• 3:59
  I would graduate there as well.
• 4:01
  Peddling this garbage.
• 4:02
  This is nonsense.
• 4:03
  When I see what you're talking about, that breathing can help by your meditation, not
• 4:08
  meditate.
• 4:09
  Mindfulness can help when it's in the New England Journal, then you can come back and
• 4:14
  I'll refer patients to you.
• 4:16
  Well, bottom line, his younger associate started referring people.
• 4:21
  They did really well, and there have been research.
• 4:25
  They're now there's there are hundreds of studies and now it's common.
• 4:29
  For physicians to recommend meditation, mindfulness training to their patients, so
• 4:35
  those who are conventionally trained.
• 4:37
  I think we also saw after the pandemic, a lot of doctors exhausted burned out.
• 4:43
  This is a serious, serious problem.
• 4:45
  Many of them are saying there has to be something else.
• 4:48
  They are also frustrated.
• 4:50
  They are seeing their patients not getting better.
• 4:54
  Recent statistic, 88 percent of adult Americans are considered metabolically unhealthy.
• 5:02
  And those are shocking statistics and it's increasing.
• 5:06
  Number of people diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, young children with fatty liver
• 5:11
  disease, pediatric conferences are talking about fatty liver.
• 5:14
  This was something we never ever saw, especially other than in alcoholics, certainly
• 5:19
  not in a pediatric population.
• 5:21
  So they are frustrated and they realize we have to do something.
• 5:25
  And so there is a gradual coming together people who are looking who are in the medical
• 5:31
  community as healthcare professionals are looking at functional integrative medicine
• 5:36
  approaches.
• 5:37
  And we have seen a lot of interest, but it is also patient driven.
• 5:42
  Consumers want this.
• 5:44
  They are really feeling like there's got to be other answers.
• 5:49
  And so this is largely driven by, people themselves, patients who are wanting something
• 5:56
  different.
• 5:57
  They want to feel better.
• 5:59
  So the Institute for Functional Medicine, their conferences are selling out.
• 6:03
  They're getting a lot of medical doctors saying I've I just want to be, I want I have a mission
• 6:11
  you know, I this is not what I went to medical school for, to just be a, a cog in the wheel of
• 6:18
  this large hospital system where I spend my days just entering in the medical record, and
• 6:24
  I'm not really, as effective as with my patients as I always like to.
• 6:28
  These are their studying functional medicine.
• 6:31
  And we're seeing the Cleveland Clinic open to Cleveland Clinic Center for Functional Medicine
• 6:37
  a number of years ago.
• 6:38
  We're seeing other hospitals following suit.
• 6:41
  Amazing because, you know, you know, I think of as myself as a young clinician and, you know,
• 6:46
  you see people.
• 6:47
  Right?
• 6:47
  They go on the antidepressants of the anti anxiety And, you know, and then you start to
• 6:53
  talk to them on other things, right?
• 6:54
  And they'd be like, well, you know, I tried it, but it didn't work.
• 6:57
  And they expect the outcome to be different.
• 6:59
  Because the because the medicine, right, the anti anxiety could be less anxious, but I'm so
• 7:06
  anxious, but I'm not learning any new skills.
• 7:08
  Right?
• 7:08
  And now you know, with, let's talk a bit about benefits consulting and how that kind of works
• 7:14
  and how a company for any senior executives listening now, and they're thinking Wow.
• 7:19
  I didn't know much about this.
• 7:22
  But I I maybe should be considering this as one of my offerings along to my benefits consulting
• 7:28
  continuum.
• 7:28
  Right?
• 7:29
  Do you have the EAP benefits?
• 7:30
  You have, you know, sometimes they have health coaching separate or whatever.
• 7:34
  How does functional medicine kind of fit in, or how do should senior leaders think about
• 7:39
  functional medicine when they have, you know, people that might approach them for looking at
• 7:46
  the trending analysis for what they're seeing in health and wellness year over year over
• 7:50
  year.
• 7:52
  So functional medicine coaching academy, we are doing research on the effectiveness of coaching
• 7:59
  And we have 2 programs.
• 8:03
  One is where we are going through, the Institute for Functional Medicine, our
• 8:09
  collaboration partner, and their trainees who come to their introductory course are offered
• 8:14
  the option of being paired with one of our graduates for 5 sessions.
• 8:18
  The results have been off the charts phenomenal, and now we are in phase 2 of that
• 8:24
  research showing that coaching physicians, and the coach is was very, very helpful in terms of
• 8:31
  their not only their physical symptoms were reduced, but also their, we use the promised 10
• 8:38
  and their well-being significantly improved after these 5 sessions.
• 8:43
  We have a company that we have been working with and, it's Slalom Consulting, and we are,
• 8:50
  just have completed a pilot project where, they had, a small segment of their employees similar
• 9:00
  same process.
• 9:01
  They were matched with one of our graduates who our graduates are doing this as their
• 9:05
  internship, and they are finding that what is several things are showing up.
• 9:12
  So similar to the physicians, their symptoms based on itself report measures symptoms, have
• 9:18
  decreased.
• 9:19
  Those are physical symptoms as well as their mental, emotional state, their sense of
• 9:25
  well-being.
• 9:25
  But what is highly significant for the employer is that they are stating that they feel cared
• 9:33
  for.
• 9:34
  They are saying that Slalom cares about me because they went to this length to offer these
• 9:42
  health coaching sessions and what is it it is the personal interaction because coaches are
• 9:50
  trained to be listeners.
• 9:52
  And many people are just not feeling heard.
• 9:55
  And also because they are addressing whatever that individual wants to work on, most people
• 10:02
  were working on stress, work life balance, what they were eating.
• 10:06
  They wanted to change their dietary habits.
• 10:09
  But it is all what we call, you know, client centered.
• 10:13
  And so just that experience alone, these are all done virtually, but it was very
• 10:19
  significant.
• 10:19
  Many of these employees went on to continue that coaching relationship beyond the 5
• 10:27
  sessions that was offered in the project.
• 10:29
  So we have to tons of data now showing the effectiveness of a coach.
• 10:35
  And now, the o's so where the functional medicine physician would come in and
• 10:41
  Increasingly, this is through telehealth where they would get specific lab tests off in
• 10:47
  specialty labs, and they would have that consultation to where that doctor is the
• 10:53
  medical detective to find out.
• 10:54
  So those would be people who are, experiencing some degree of of physical symptoms that
• 11:02
  they're struggling with.
• 11:03
  And so then that consult would would be made.
• 11:07
  But the value is in terms of combating things like presenteeism, which is a big problem or,
• 11:14
  you know, quiet quitting which is that you're talking about, or people feeling like they're
• 11:19
  not connected to their work.
• 11:21
  They don't have mission and purpose.
• 11:22
  And a coach can help them to rediscover that.
• 11:26
  Like, even if they're doing a task that might be tedious, well, even I got it done, and I
• 11:32
  didn't make any mistake.
• 11:33
  How do you find value?
• 11:34
  How do you find value in your everyday responsibilities?
• 11:38
  How do you have that work life balance?
• 11:40
  And how do you also decide when it is time for a career change and, what would that look like
• 11:46
  for you?
• 11:47
  So all of those things are on the table.
• 11:49
  With the with the coaching relationship.
• 11:52
  And really, it's discovering things that people may not realize.
• 11:57
  So let's say, you know, you come back from lunch and you can't keep your eyes open.
• 12:01
  You have to be in a meeting and you're struggling.
• 12:04
  Well, what did you eat?
• 12:06
  And could it be that this was a carb heavy lunch?
• 12:10
  What if you added more protein?
• 12:11
  What would that look like?
• 12:13
  What if you increased fat?
• 12:14
  So coaches are not nutritionists.
• 12:16
  They don't make direct recommendations.
• 12:18
  They don't diagnose.
• 12:19
  They don't develop a meal plan, but they help people to do their own experimentation and
• 12:26
  start to rethink some things.
• 12:29
  And that can be very beneficial or somebody who might be anxious worried a lot, have maybe,
• 12:35
  have some issues with their mood, their depressed, and, overwhelmed with stress.
• 12:41
  But what are they eating?
• 12:43
  And how is that playing into it?
• 12:45
  And if they're getting sick all the time, well, what, again, what foods are going to be
• 12:53
  beneficial for your immune system.
• 12:55
  Your immune system is in your gut.
• 12:57
  So if you are eating these ultra processed foods, then that's gonna have a huge impact,
• 13:04
  and a perfect example was during the preparations for the lockdown, when you saw
• 13:12
  people who were in stores and their carts were filled with, like, ships and cookies and and
• 13:18
  all of these snack foods and all these ultra processed foods.
• 13:21
  Well and yet they were very concerned about staying healthy.
• 13:26
  And but what they they didn't make the connection that the food had any impact on the
• 13:33
  defense and repair system, which is the immune system.
• 13:37
  So, you know, what I think is very important is we, you know, talk about presentingism because
• 13:42
  I think that's key.
• 13:43
  We've gone through this massive pandemic, you know, either people, the people that were
• 13:47
  healthy, and I will say there's a subset of the population, right, the people that you know you
• 13:52
  need to meet, but you don't know how to meet them when in the I wasn't executive in the AP
• 13:56
  world forever.
• 13:58
  And that's what we found.
• 13:59
  Right?
• 13:59
  The people that knew, they just made better choices.
• 14:03
  And the people that knew they were unhealthy, that's another subset of people that were
• 14:06
  really not well.
• 14:07
  But there was a big subsection of that population.
• 14:10
  And these are the ones that are, you know, they're the the ones that are highest in is,
• 14:16
  and they're the ones that are kind of doing the technical door with short term disability.
• 14:20
  And these are the ones that really, if they if you don't kind of, find their trending.
• 14:25
  They might end up in long term, and we know how massively expensive that is for companies.
• 14:30
  So what I hear, and and I'm trying to clarify is really functional medicine with the with the
• 14:36
  physician making the assessment and the coaches?
• 14:39
  You're just doing a holistic perspective res EAP, you know, they do the psychological.
• 14:45
  Right?
• 14:45
  And then they would refer on to health coaching or, you know, legal or whatever could keep the
• 14:51
  employee away from work, but it sounds like the the the arc of what the functional medicine
• 14:58
  realm is is looking at anything that the person could be addressing or having to address,
• 15:04
  physical you know, emotional, psychological, spiritual, or meaning and purpose you talked
• 15:10
  about, and also how to function effectively so they can bring bring the best version of
• 15:15
  themselves to work, not just work, but to their lives.
• 15:20
  Yes.
• 15:21
  You got it.
• 15:22
  And the health coach acts like the the center hub and the wheel, and they have all of these
• 15:30
  different possibilities.
• 15:31
  So maybe this person does need psychotherapy.
• 15:34
  They know when to refer for that.
• 15:36
  Maybe they need a they need to see a functional medicine doctor, maybe they need, to address
• 15:43
  their oral health, which often is overlooked.
• 15:47
  There's a great question in, in functional medicine.
• 15:52
  And that is when is the last time you felt well?
• 15:55
  And then what was happening a year, 6 months before that.
• 15:58
  And people will say, well, I moved.
• 16:02
  And, I did a lot of home repairs.
• 16:04
  And maybe there's some susceptibility.
• 16:07
  There were some toxic load going on with that.
• 16:10
  Or perhaps it was I remember one person, back when I was a psychologist she knew, even though
• 16:15
  none of her doctors believed she said, I never felt well after that root canal.
• 16:20
  I'm I'm just it's gotta be connected in some way.
• 16:24
  That was what started it.
• 16:25
  And people have that intuitive sense.
• 16:27
  And, yes, there is that connection.
• 16:29
  And so, getting investigating that route.
• 16:33
  Might be a possibility.
• 16:35
  Or helping people on an elimination diet where you're eliminating, letting things like gluten
• 16:41
  and soy and other things that are known to create sensitivities.
• 16:45
  And so or perhaps it is somebody has celiac and they don't even know it and where the
• 16:51
  functional medicine health coach would help them to, to go down that path to see a
• 16:57
  functional medicine doctor where they do kinds of tests.
• 17:00
  And it's also emotional health coaching because many people still are faced with that stigma.
• 17:10
  And especially if they think their job is on the line, they're at risk, there's privacy
• 17:14
  issues.
• 17:14
  And so what a coach does based on the positive psychology principles are focusing on what's
• 17:21
  right with you and not what's wrong with you.
• 17:24
  And helping people to see how simple changes.
• 17:28
  They were not talking about major major changes in most cases.
• 17:33
  But just getting out and taking a walk, spending some time outside, that is a better
• 17:39
  antidepressant than anything that's pill and helping people to to see that or helping them
• 17:45
  with loneliness, which is an independent risk factor.
• 17:48
  To feel connected.
• 17:50
  And then certainly, we saw that during the pandemic, the the problem with feeling
• 17:57
  isolated, feeling alone, and often people are getting together in groups led by a health
• 18:04
  coach or inspired by a coach to be more connected because that is so, so healing.
• 18:11
  Absolutely.
• 18:13
  This has been an amazing conversation for anybody that didn't know about functional
• 18:17
  medicine.
• 18:18
  I I'm so glad we had this conversation today, but what I'd like you to do is to speak to
• 18:23
  senior advisors within companies and they're, you know, they're probably somewhat I'm gonna
• 18:28
  assume with all the advancements.
• 18:30
  A lot of people at least minimally know some, but I'm gonna assume maybe not so much based
• 18:35
  on, you know, the industry or, you know, the part of the world that they might be listening
• 18:40
  to, this podcast from.
• 18:42
  What kind of things would you tell them to consider when they're making a decision about,
• 18:48
  you know, maybe, approaching someone to do some of the work that you're suggesting.
• 18:53
  Sure.
• 18:55
  So people don't like to be told what to do.
• 18:58
  And a lot of those early corporate wellness programs didn't work as well because people
• 19:05
  were being told they felt forced into something.
• 19:08
  There were privacy concerns, and it just was not it can't be one size fits all.
• 19:14
  No.
• 19:14
  The health is personalized.
• 19:17
  It's based on who you are, what your unique needs are, what your genetics are like.
• 19:22
  And so it's a process that is highly individualized.
• 19:27
  And I think showing caring for employees by offering, bullering coaching.
• 19:34
  And the place to start for those senior executives is with you.
• 19:39
  And so, he experience what it's like to have a coach.
• 19:45
  And many may be familiar if they played sports.
• 19:48
  They had a coach, for example, And so they're familiar with the process having somebody who
• 19:54
  is not only your personal cheerleader, your guide, gonna help you be held accountable.
• 20:00
  And so realizing that it this is good for the bottom line.
• 20:04
  This is you want your employees present.
• 20:07
  You don't want them absent from work because they're sick.
• 20:11
  Long COVID.
• 20:11
  This is just the tip of the iceberg with what we're seeing there.
• 20:15
  And people who are wanting to leave the company.
• 20:18
  So, using this as a way to increase the productivity, and have a team that is really
• 20:27
  committed and mission driven.
• 20:30
  So you can go to functional medicinecoaching.org.
• 20:34
  We actually have a find a coach, and we are also more and more being called upon to work
• 20:42
  with companies to help them to initiate a coaching program.
• 20:48
  Awesome.
• 20:49
  So what am I walking away with?
• 20:51
  I'm gonna say that I know a fair amount, but today, with our conversation, I think it's, you
• 20:57
  know, whether you're the individual, think about yourself, like, some simple things like
• 21:01
  Sandra said, like, you know, when are you sluggish?
• 21:05
  You know, are you moving?
• 21:07
  You know, what have you been through?
• 21:09
  Maybe in the last year or the last 6 months, And how are you feeling internally?
• 21:14
  And I I often say, it's getting quiet and our lives are so hairy.
• 21:19
  Like, this morning I took, you know, 25 minutes to do a meditation.
• 21:25
  I don't do it every day.
• 21:27
  And it's funny how that just sets the, you know, it's the aperitif for the day, and it it
• 21:32
  just it helps you flow.
• 21:33
  You still have lots of things coming at you, which we all know, but to take that time to
• 21:38
  really reflect internally.
• 21:41
  And for the CEOs that were that are gonna be hearing this or the senior leaders that can
• 21:46
  make decisions, this is a gift that you're giving the individuals, but ultimately, and you
• 21:51
  know that I talk about return on relationship.
• 21:53
  It's investing in the individual relationship so that overall as a company, you have a
• 21:59
  culture.
• 22:00
  What what are you doing if people are that much healthier if they're getting this kind of
• 22:04
  support?
• 22:05
  That's gonna cross pollinate, and people are gonna just be able to be bring the best version
• 22:09
  of themselves to work.
• 22:10
  Less presentism, And if we're focused and and pro productive, I would say most human beings
• 22:17
  wanna bring, the best self to whatever they're doing.
• 22:21
  So affording them the opportunities to be able to do that.
• 22:24
  So again, Sandra, thanks so much for anyone that wants to learn more about authentic
• 22:29
  leadership at, relationships either at home or at work, just, go to my website,
• 22:34
  roxanderbox.comforward/quiz You can pull that out.
• 22:37
  We'll send you a nice little report, and you can connect it with us if you're wanting more
• 22:41
  information.
• 22:42
  Again, Sandra, thanks so much.
• 22:43
  And for everyone, thanks for hanging out with us, and we'll chat with you again soon.
• 22:47
  Thank you.
• 22:48
  Great to be here.
• 22:50
  Thanks for tuning to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 22:55
  healthy change.
• 22:56
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 23:03
  roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 23:07
  We'll see you next time.
• 23:08
  Unauthentic living with Roxanne.