Latest / Pop of Culture / S03 E22 - We Cover Mountains, Memoirs, and Microloans

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S03 E22 - We Cover Mountains, Memoirs, and Microloans · Pop of Culture

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[Kara DuQuette] This week on Pop of Culture,
0:17
we learn about micro loans for local artists.
0:21
[Graham Watson] And I think one of the biggest things
0:22
was the boost of confidence I got from,
0:25
like, Oh, the community wants me to do this.
0:28
You know, I got votes, and I was
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Yeah, there's Sa support there.
0:31
[Jen Blackmer] We'll get a peek at a paper mache memoir,
0:34
[Kara] And we'll head to the top of a mountain.
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Well, not us. A writer we talk to, will.
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[Jen] That's all coming up.
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1:13
[Jen] From Indiana Public Radio,
1:16
this is Pop of Culture.
1:18
I'm Jen Blackmer.
1:19
[Michelle Kinsey] I'm Michelle Kinsey.
1:21
[Kara] And I'm Kara DuQuette.
1:22
Ann Johnson is best known as the creator of FB Fogg,
1:26
a local business with international sales.
1:29
Later this hour, she returns to
1:31
the program to talk about her new memoir.
1:34
But first,
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[Michelle] In the Pop of Culture studios to talk about
1:39
the Vore Arts Fund is Graham Watson and Braden Robinson.
1:44
Welcome to both of you.
1:46
[Graham] Hi. Thanks for having us on.
1:47
[Braden] I'm glad to be here.
1:48
[Michelle] So glad you are here.
1:50
Let's talk about the creation of the Vore Arts Fund,
1:54
and I feel it's only right to
1:57
start with the person kind of behind the fund.
2:00
Graham as president and founder of the Arts Fund,
2:04
tell us how this came about in
2:07
honor of a very special person in town.
2:10
[Graham] Yeah, well, originally, this started around,
2:14
I think 2004 was the prototype of this thing.
2:19
It came from there were a series of
2:21
fundraiser concerts to support the MuncieScene.com,
2:25
which is now MuncieEvents.com.
2:28
And they raised too much money.
2:31
And I had
2:33
a few different ideas, but what I landed on was,
2:36
what if instead of giving this out to some artistic
2:41
cause or community project like a grant.
2:44
What if this was set up as a pool
2:46
for a revolving loan fund?
2:49
The real philosophy of it being,
2:51
Hey, here we have half a grand.
2:54
We know that people in the community need money.
2:57
Sometimes just need some money fronted
3:00
upfront to pay for
3:03
the initial expenses of
3:04
whatever it is that they're trying to do.
3:06
And they
3:08
can't get traditional loans
3:10
or they don't want to expose
3:11
themselves to that kind of risk,
3:13
and a lot of these people are not
3:15
eligible for traditional kinds of grants.
3:17
So the idea was, this is money
3:19
that we could afford to lose.
3:22
And we know that all the people taking
3:24
a risk with their own rent money,
3:27
hoping that their show goes well or
3:30
their painting sells or
3:32
they can sell their album or something,
3:34
they can't risk their rent money
3:37
on the chance that their project isn't successful.
3:41
So the idea was gamble
3:43
with our money instead of your own.
3:45
If your project is successful,
3:47
then go ahead and pay that loan
3:49
back so we can pass it on to another artist.
3:51
If your project is not successful, cool.
3:54
We're happy to have supported you.
3:55
You are under no obligation to pay us back.
3:58
And then because I was running all of this when
4:01
I was a freshman at Ball State,
4:04
I started getting overwhelmed
4:05
with all the overhead for it,
4:06
and I put it on a brief pause for like 15 years.
4:11
And it happens.
4:14
It started getting to me that it was a good idea.
4:17
It was pretty easy to run,
4:18
and there really wasn't anything else in
4:20
the community meeting these same needs.
4:23
Yeah. So it seemed very much worth it to
4:26
resurrect this and do it properly, like, you know,
4:30
with an actual 501-C3
4:31
and all that, not just,
4:33
like, out of the personal bank account
4:36
of a college freshman.
4:38
So, shortly before the pandemic,
4:41
I started putting together plans for doing
4:44
this properly and getting grant money to start it off.
4:48
And at around that time,
4:50
a friend of mine,
4:51
Phil Vore sadly passed away of a heart attack.
4:55
And he was someone that I had served on a couple
4:59
of local boards of directors in the arts community.
5:03
He and I were part of the resurrection
5:07
of the Full Circle Arts Co Op,
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which was the nonprofit behind Doc's Music Hall,
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which previously known as
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the Creative Opportunity Center.
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And he was like me,
5:19
one of the founding directors of
5:20
the Muncie Arts and Culture Council.
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So when I was struggling to
5:25
find a name for this new arts fund,
5:29
and he passed away,
5:31
it seemed like Vore Arts Fund
5:33
just had a great ring to it.
5:35
Yeah. So yeah, I named it in his honor.
5:37
[Michelle] Oh, I love that.
5:38
Could you, for those listening who may not have
5:41
known the powerful force
5:45
he was in the arts for several years,
5:48
kind of describe him as a person for people.
5:52
[Graham] Wow. He left a lot of glitter.
5:56
[laughter]
5:57
Wherever he went that's so true.
6:00
He was very whimsical, but also extremely
6:03
serious about things that he took seriously.
6:06
Like, if we would be in a board meeting talking about,
6:09
like, something that he
6:11
thought was not really helping the community,
6:13
he would snap us back into attention and be like, Hey,
6:16
if we went out on the street
6:17
and asked a random working artist,
6:19
Hey, are you glad that this group exists in Muncie?
6:23
Are you glad that they're doing what they're doing?
6:24
Would they know who we are?
6:27
Would they know what our value is to the community?
6:30
And he'd always be pushing us to actually make
6:33
a difference in the lives of
6:35
the people who need resources like this.
6:37
[Michelle] What would you hope he would think about or say
6:41
about the Vore Arts fund
6:44
today and what it is for the community?
6:46
[Graham] I think he would really
6:49
appreciate how kind of, iconoclastic it is.
6:52
They're very traditional models
6:56
for how arts funding tends to work with,
7:01
lot of requirements of,
7:03
like, Hey, you have to qualify.
7:05
You have to be connected,
7:07
or you have to be doing something that is recognized as,
7:10
like, the kinds of art that this group supports.
7:15
It's usually a lot more discerning and competitive.
7:19
And we're deliberately taking the opposite approach of,
7:21
like, I don't even want to get
7:23
into the debate of what is art?
7:26
Do crafts count?
7:28
I want to leave it pretty wide open,
7:31
kind of experimentally to see
7:32
how the community uses this fund.
7:34
And we also set it up,
7:37
and I think Phil would really appreciate
7:39
this instead of doing the kind of
7:41
traditional thing of concentrating all
7:43
the decision making power in a small,
7:45
well connected board that maybe steers things in
7:49
the direction of their friends
7:51
and the kinds of art that they like.
7:53
Our board it's written in our bylaws.
7:56
We are to take a really light touch on all that stuff,
8:01
just determine whether or not
8:03
the applications are legally permissible.
8:07
And then the public votes
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on who actually gets funding in every funding cycle.
8:13
And I think that he would like that
8:15
that's a safeguard that we put in place to
8:18
keep this resource from being
8:23
steered in directions that
8:25
don't really serve the community at large.
8:28
Corruptions a heavy word,
8:30
but that kind of stuff does happen sometimes.
8:32
[Michelle] Yeah. So, Braden, you are, as we just mentioned,
8:36
you are a recipient of money from the Vore Arts Fund.
8:40
Talk a little bit about how you
8:42
found out about the Vore Arts Fund,
8:44
and what made you want to give this a shot and apply.
8:48
[Braden] Um, so I started to
8:51
vend with Muncie Makers Market on first Thursdays.
8:54
And it was an inspiration from the Internet.
8:56
I saw people cutting rocks open,
8:58
and I'm like, I could do that.
9:00
I got a saw l and got
9:02
some geodes that are really easy to find around here.
9:04
So I got that and set up a little card table with
9:07
only a saw and
9:09
a couple rocks and did really well my first weekend.
9:13
And eventually, met up with
9:16
Janessa who does art, jewelry.
9:20
Yeah, the beadwork, um
9:22
and she had some rocks she wanted me
9:24
to cut for her for projects. Oh, wow.
9:26
So we got together at a lunch at The Cup,
9:30
and Moth Danner joined us,
9:32
and she recommended me to apply.
9:35
We should point out that Moth Danner is
9:37
the creator and founder of
9:38
the Muncie Makers Market. Mm hmm.
9:40
And, like, we weren't even done talking,
9:42
and I had already applied.
9:44
Yeah, so I got on that real
9:47
quick and thankfully won and been
9:51
very grateful for all
9:52
of the support from the Vore Arts Fund.
9:55
Being able to be a part of
9:57
the Makerspace over at MadJax is a big deal, too.
10:00
That got me and a lot of other connections through that.
10:06
I think I won. It was
10:09
a split with somebody else, correct?
10:12
[Graham] I think so. Yeah. I mean,
10:14
the votes turned out.
10:15
[Braden] Right. So I got,
10:17
like, the $500 thing,
10:19
and I think I bought a $900 saw with some
10:24
of that money so I could
10:26
expand my capabilities since that moment.
10:30
And I think one of the biggest things
10:32
was the boost of confidence I got from,
10:35
like, Oh, the community wants me to do this.
10:37
You know, I got votes, and I was.
10:39
There's some support there, so
10:41
that confidence gave me the
10:43
push I needed to just do the thing, right?
10:46
Yeah. So I want to hear a
10:48
little bit more about how you started
10:50
with geodes and then your work has kind of
10:53
expanded with the help of the Vore Arts Fund.
10:57
Talk a little bit more about what that work is.
10:59
If I come and see your work,
11:01
what am I going to see on the table when
11:03
I come and see you at a festival or a show?
11:06
[Braden] So, I do a lot
11:09
mainly jewelry anymore. So, like,
11:12
I hand cut and polish cabochons from different stones,
11:16
and then wire wrap or otherwise,
11:19
turn those cabochons into jewelry.
11:22
Okay, you mentioned cabochon.
11:23
Could you tell us what that is?
11:26
Yeah, so cabochons are stone
11:29
cut with a flat back and a domed front in any shape.
11:34
They're really popular in,
11:36
like, bezel set jewelry.
11:38
I drill holes in
11:41
the cabochons now to do like little pinch bail necklaces.
11:44
And one of the big things I have on my table.
11:49
It's a big draw is, like,
11:50
the geodes, so I stuck with that.
11:51
I bring my saw
11:54
with me and I have a battery box,
11:56
and I cut geodes open live at events.
12:00
And the biggest thing is, like,
12:03
turning a rock I find in
12:04
the river into a beautiful piece of jewelry,
12:06
somebody who will love forever.
12:07
[Michelle] Oh nice. Yeah. Yeah. So, where
12:10
do you see the Vore Arts Fund
12:13
five, ten years from now,
12:15
what do you hope happens
12:17
with this fund as we move through time?
12:20
[Graham] I love that you ask that question, Michelle.
12:22
Because I think that
12:25
this is a demonstration of a different, man,
12:30
I feel full of myself when I use the word paradigm,
12:32
but this, to me,
12:35
feels like a demonstration of a new paradigm of
12:38
local arts funding for
12:40
small to medium sized communities like these, because
12:43
we're we looked around and we couldn't find
12:47
any evidence of anyone doing anything quite like this.
12:50
This is a way to take
12:52
relatively small amounts of money and have
12:55
an outsized effect on a community
12:59
that supports the economy, supports culture.
13:03
You know, a lot of the social dimension
13:07
of a community rests on the back of
13:09
the arts events that
13:12
people can go to organizations that serve as social hubs.
13:15
There are all these ripple effects to this.
13:17
And I would like other communities to see that
13:20
this is an option for supporting their communities.
13:25
And the system that I developed on the website,
13:30
the website runs most of this program automatically.
13:34
I am by trade, a software engineer,
13:37
so I always want to build robots to do my work for me.
13:40
And other communities that want to try this out can just
13:44
use the platform that we've developed or
13:47
could just steal the idea and do it in their own way.
13:49
But I'd like to see this idea
13:52
grow and help a lot more people.
13:54
[Michelle] Mm hmm. Oh, that's wonderful.
13:56
I'm curious, Braden, as we close this out,
13:59
how many other artists friends have
14:01
you told about the Vore Arts Fund?
14:04
[Braden] So, I vend with the Makers Market every month.
14:10
So I get to talk to a lot of different artists.
14:13
And then we've even talked about signing my daughter
14:15
up for it because we have
14:16
a little project. We want to start with her.
14:18
We want to make little slime things with,
14:22
like, the charms and stuff.
14:24
You just little secret. Yeah, yeah.
14:26
So working at Kats Crystals
14:29
and Curiosities with my fiance,
14:31
I've talked to a lot of different artists,
14:33
and we also do consignment for those artists,
14:35
so I get to talk to a lot of
14:37
different artists about this wonderful program.
14:39
[Michelle] Nice. In case you didn't make that connection,
14:41
Kat is his fiance.
14:42
[laughter] ♪♪ Well, I appreciate both of you coming into
14:49
the Pop of Culture studios to talk about this fun
14:52
and talk about appreciating our local artists.
14:56
Thank you everybody. Thank you.
15:02
♪♪ [Kara] It's Pop of Culture.
15:05
I'm Kara DuQuette.
15:06
[Jen] And I'm Jen Blackmer.
15:07
This week's Beautiful Thing takes us to
15:10
the West Coast and then to
15:12
the top of a mountain in Vietnam.
15:14
[Mary] Hi. I'm Mary Lane Potter,
15:17
and I am in Seattle.
15:19
From my desk, I'm looking to the East,
15:23
and I see the range of
15:24
the Cascade Mountains which have some snow on them.
15:28
[Jen] Wow. That seems like a great place to be writing.
15:31
Mary, we're pleased that you'll be
15:34
sharing your Beautiful Thing with us today.
15:36
Your piece is entitled.
15:38
[Mary] On Sam Mountain.
15:41
At the peak, 932 feet above the Mekong floodplain,
15:47
beyond the Holy caves and the Cham, Buddhist,
15:51
Hindu and Mother-Goddess temples
15:53
that litter the twisting Pilgrim Road.
15:56
A mother and father are teaching
15:58
their young son how to pray.
16:01
They buy a dull brown tennis ball of a bird from
16:05
an old woman trolling
16:06
the site with a cage woven of twigs.
16:10
Standing before a simple ancestor shrine,
16:14
the father cups the bird in his hands
16:17
as the mother's hands show how to receive the offering,
16:21
close around it, shelter it softly, so. Then release.
16:30
In the boys hands, the bird flutters.
16:34
He startles, laughs, then turns solemn,
16:38
steadies his gaze, and begins to chant.
16:42
His teachers watch,
16:44
transfixed as his hands float up, open,
16:49
and the bird flies free,
16:52
higher and higher above the green,
16:55
green weave of rice patties stretching across
16:58
peoples and borders far below.
17:02
While other tourists photograph the vistas or drink beer
17:06
under rough palm thatching, I buy a bird.
17:11
Careful disease a woman calls.
17:15
Can't free every prisoner, a man chirps.
17:19
I, a child schooled in prayers and purity,
17:24
a woman bent on escape yet at
17:27
home in cages, know this well.
17:31
But in my hands, a tiny body quivers.
17:37
Heart beating, feathers fluffing,
17:43
feet scratching, warmth spreading.
17:50
In my skin, I am learning to hold
17:55
life without suffocating, without squandering.
18:01
So. With my body,
18:05
I'm discovering how to fly free,
18:09
how to trace an unseen path of meeting,
18:13
how to join Heaven and Earth.
18:18
[Jen] Thank you, Mary. What a beautiful essay.
18:22
What inspired this piece for you?
18:24
[Mary] What happens to me...
18:26
for me, writing is about questions
18:30
or things that trouble your heart or your mind.
18:34
And I write to kind of discover,
18:37
like, why has this been troubling me for so long?
18:40
Why does this keep recurring, you know,
18:41
in my thoughts in my heart my emotions.
18:44
And so this particular
18:47
I actually saw witnessed this scene.
18:51
And what troubled me
18:53
about it as it were afterwards is, you know,
18:55
we all have these moments in life
18:57
where we experience these wonderful moments where
19:03
experiencing we experience ourselves
19:06
expanding and at the same time feeling at one,
19:12
at peace fused with an incredible joy.
19:17
And those experiences are so deep and so rich.
19:22
That they're not easily articulated.
19:26
So that scene kept coming back to me in my mind,
19:31
and I kept wondering,
19:33
why was that moment so
19:36
you could say transcendent or why was
19:38
it so a depth moment for me?
19:41
And why does it keep returning to me?
19:43
And it was for that reason.
19:45
And so then I thought,
19:46
I need to write about this. I need to write.
19:48
Not for an answer, but for
19:50
a response, you know, to discover,
19:53
you know, what was going on in that moment that
19:55
I felt so deeply, deeply good.
19:57
Absolutely. I was drafting it,
20:00
you know, the different details that surfaced for me.
20:05
They brought in, they wove together
20:07
all these different parts of my life.
20:09
You know, I was a theology professor,
20:11
I had a PhD, you know, in theology.
20:13
I love nature. I love children.
20:16
I'm a big advocate of religious diversity.
20:19
You know, all these things in my life came together,
20:23
and they wove themselves together.
20:25
And then when I read the piece back, I thought,
20:27
that was a moment of wholeness that I experienced then,
20:31
but I didn't realize it until I had written
20:35
[Jen} Absolutely, yes.
20:37
And that exploration using the words in the language.
20:40
And in this case, I think the rhythms and
20:43
the beautiful imagery that you have
20:45
here to sort of fix it so you can think about it, right?
20:50
And I find that all the time in
20:53
my own work that it's the act of working and
20:57
the process and the writing itself that allows you
20:59
access to these bigger things in life
21:03
and these things that are
21:05
affecting you that you really don't know what or how
21:08
to articulate it until you
21:10
do that deeper thinking afterwards.
21:14
[Mary] That's part of the beauty of
21:16
not only I love it for fiction,
21:18
but that's one of the things that I
21:20
discovered late about creative nonfiction, you know?
21:23
If you know where a piece you're writing is going,
21:26
whether it's nonfiction, creative nonfiction, fiction,
21:30
I always say, then I'm in trouble,
21:32
because [laughter] then I'm not discovering,
21:35
you know, what is there in that
21:38
moment in the hands when everything is moving, you know?
21:42
The big gesture of letting go is very, very important.
21:47
But it's that moment,
21:48
and that's where, you know, for me,
21:51
a lot of the writing happens is just staying a moment,
21:55
being present to that moment. Yeah.
21:59
[Jen] And you mentioned earlier the joy
22:03
of creative non fiction as a genre,
22:06
if you will, or as a way of writing,
22:08
a method of storytelling.
22:10
Talk to me a little bit more about that.
22:12
But beyond this, sort of capturing moments.
22:14
I mean, what are some of the other reasons
22:16
why this type of nonfiction appeals to you?
22:19
[Mary] I never thought I would write
22:21
creative, you know, nonfiction.
22:23
Yeah. I just never thought about it.
22:24
I love structure. I love form.
22:26
I love playing with form, but
22:27
I always wanted to be a poet.
22:28
Mm hmm. The problem is,
22:30
I have a prosaic mind.
22:32
And the second problem is,
22:35
I think in books. You know, I really do.
22:37
It's like I think of something, and I want to, like,
22:39
uncover, you know, the dimensions
22:41
and all the depth of it.
22:43
And so I do. I think in books.
22:45
So I came to the micro essay,
22:49
really just to start playing with the form to say,
22:51
Could I write, you know,
22:54
in a more compressed form.
22:57
And in this kind of compressed form, every word
23:01
counts. It does in all writing, of course.
23:04
But you cannot waste
23:05
one syllable in this kind of writing.
23:08
And I found that liberating
23:10
to me as a person who thought in books and,
23:12
you know, I had this prosaic mind.
23:14
So that means I really have to concentrate and
23:19
turn that kaleidoscope of details
23:21
so it really has a very clear,
23:24
at the same time, deep and, you know,
23:28
translucent image going or feel to it.
23:31
So, I found it really exciting because I got
23:35
to use some of
23:37
my interest in poetry. I read a lot of poetry.
23:40
I got to put that together with my prosaic mind.
23:43
No, I found it worked.
23:45
[Jen} Sort of like sort of like it was created for you, right?
23:48
[Mary] Yeah, it was. It's like,
23:50
thank you to the form, you know?
23:52
And I don't do it all the time. I mean,
23:54
I still like to write booklink things.
23:56
Yeah, I write longer essays.
23:58
But this is just so much fun.
24:02
And the nice thing, though,
24:05
about it is a form
24:06
which it's a discipline that, you know,
24:08
evokes creativity, but there can be like each one of
24:11
these micro essays can have
24:13
such a different structure within that compressed form.
24:17
That's what I like.
24:18
[Jen] Yeah, absolutely.
24:19
And longtime listeners will
24:21
know exactly what you're talking about.
24:22
I mean, each one of these things is
24:23
different and unique and very
24:25
specific of real human experience
24:29
that we have the joy of sharing with our listeners.
24:32
Mary Lane Potter, thank you so much for joining us on
24:36
Pop of Culture today with
24:37
myour Beautiful Thing entitled On Sam Mountain.
24:42
[Mary] Thank you so much for the invitation and opportunity.
24:46
Have to talk with you. [Jen] Of course.
24:48
This story comes from IPRs collaboration
24:51
with Riverteeth, Beautiful Things,
24:53
a weekly magazine of micro essays.
24:55
More at riverteethjournal.com.
25:13
♪♪ ♪♪ [Kara] You know our next guest
25:16
as the founder and owner of FB Fogg,
25:19
a small business known around
25:20
the world for their paper mache collections.
25:23
We've spoken with Ann Johnson before,
25:26
but now she has a new memoir.
25:28
She sat down with Michelle Kinsey.
25:30
[Michelle] Ann Johnson has lived
25:32
an extraordinary creative life as an artist,
25:35
entrepreneur, founder of FB Fogg,
25:37
and now an author.
25:40
Today, she is here about that last one.
25:42
She has a new memoir out now called Finding Fogg.
25:46
Welcome, Ann. Thank you so much.
25:49
You know, you have spent
25:51
decades telling stories through visual art.
25:54
When was the moment that it hit
25:56
you that you were that you felt,
25:58
I want to put this down in book form?
26:00
[Ann] Well, actually,
26:02
it wasn't me who said that.
26:04
I had a former student who
26:06
was talking with me one day about my life
26:09
and asking questions about it
26:11
and how it came out in my paintings and so forth.
26:13
And I said, Oh, well,
26:16
and I started telling her about my life.
26:18
And she said, You've got to write this. And I
26:21
No, no, no, no, no. I'm an artist. I'm not an author.
26:24
And she said, Come on.
26:26
We're going to Best Buy. And off
26:28
we went to Best Buy, bought a computer.
26:30
She taught me patiently,
26:32
and I have to say so patiently,
26:35
how to use that computer
26:36
so that I could write a manuscript.
26:39
So I used it as a tool like I would use a paintbrush,
26:43
and I painted my life.
26:44
And when I finished it, I thought,
26:48
Wow. This was kind of fun.
26:50
It was such a cathartic experience.
26:53
Yeah. And I remembered
26:55
many things that I had totally forgotten.
26:57
However, I had written it backward.
27:00
I had started with the lint.
27:03
Yes. And fog.
27:05
And I put my childhood at the end of the story,
27:09
and a very good friend of mine,
27:11
Adam Wire in Indianapolis,
27:13
who is an editor,
27:15
read my manuscript and said,
27:17
Wow, this is worth telling,
27:19
but you've got it wrong.
27:21
And I said, What do you mean? And he said,
27:24
your childhood belongs in the front.
27:27
[Michelle] Absolutely. It's part of your journey, right?
27:29
And I think people like
27:31
to read and experience the journey from
27:34
childhood to artist because they
27:36
can oftentimes see themselves in that journey, right?
27:40
[Ann] That's exactly it. [Michelle]The title Finding Fogg,
27:44
I'm curious why you chose that.
27:47
Is it about how you found Fogg?
27:51
Are you still finding fogg?
27:54
Tell us a little bit about the title of your memoir.
27:56
[Ann] Of course, my company was called FB Fogg.
27:59
Yes. And that, you know,
28:02
became a nomenclature, just
28:04
as much as Ann Johnson was a name for me.
28:07
But I do think that
28:09
knowing that I needed to support myself,
28:11
I never meant to start out with lint,
28:15
like the refuge of society as an art piece to work with.
28:21
And at that time, people weren't recycling very much.
28:25
But when I looked at all that beautiful white lint,
28:27
I thought, This is a natural.
28:28
So I began to work with it.
28:30
And in a sense,
28:33
I was trying to make handmade paper,
28:34
and I was a long way away.
28:36
Other words, Lint is not a cotton linter.
28:39
But the thing about it was that
28:42
that got me started on my artistic journey.
28:45
And so, of course, Finding Fogg became
28:47
a natural title for my memoir,
28:50
because of all the things that were momentous in my life,
28:55
it was finding that direction with Fogg
28:58
and learning how to be as an artist, a business person.
29:02
Yes. That was far from my
29:04
a sense of being absolutely.
29:06
And yeah, that journey was so valuable to me.
29:09
And that's where many
29:11
of the people many of my friends in Muncie,
29:14
many of my friends the world over, took a walk with me.
29:17
In other words, that was timely.
29:20
Sorry, little there.
29:22
But it gave them the idea that I had had a direction,
29:28
not the foggiest, actually,
29:30
but a direction of where I could go with my art and how
29:34
a young person can take
29:37
the smallest thing and make an idea of it.
29:40
And turn it over to the world,
29:42
and it's amazing what happens.
29:44
It's just an amazing journey to me,
29:46
and I wanted people to know how amazing that journey was.
29:49
[Michelle] Absolutely. You've been a part of
29:51
Muncie's creative community for many years.
29:54
How did the community shape your work
29:57
and your life and what is reflected now in this memoir?
30:02
[Ann] Well, as I've always said,
30:03
and I think you've heard me say this to you many times.
30:07
But Muncie is right on the way to everywhere.
30:10
Strangely enough, when I started
30:13
doing art fairs at different places,
30:15
I realized that I would either go east, west,
30:17
north or south, not doing them in Muncie necessarily,
30:21
but you're never an artist in your own backyard.
30:24
The thing about it is, you have to get the product out.
30:28
And so I treated my artwork like a product,
30:32
and I began doing it all over
30:34
the United States and discovered
30:36
that we were right on the way to every place.
30:38
It was a perfect place to live.
30:41
And, of course, here you have the support of
30:44
home and friends and
30:46
everyone that thinks you're wonderful.
30:47
So when you go out,
30:49
you're ready for any criticism you get.
30:52
[Michelle] As you were writing this book, Ann,
30:55
and maybe you didn't realize it until it was completed.
30:58
But what did writing this book teach you about
31:01
yourself that you didn't know before?
31:04
[Ann] One that I wasn't an author,
31:07
that I really was a painter.
31:09
[Michelle] Come on. [Ann] But the other thing that it
31:12
taught me about myself is that one,
31:16
I had had such a wonderful life.
31:19
And, you know, you don't really think about
31:22
all the great experiences that have
31:25
happened to you until
31:27
you start to put them down on paper,
31:29
and then you realize, thank you,
31:32
thank you, thank you.
31:33
If my memoir does anything for anybody,
31:37
I hope that it makes people
31:39
realize there's so much more than skin and hair.
31:41
They are all levels of wonderful stories,
31:44
and they have a story to tell.
31:46
You know, when they say to me, Oh,
31:49
my kids wouldn't even read it.
31:51
I said, It's not for your kids.
31:53
Your kids lived it. They don't have to read it.
31:56
Yeah. It's all these people
31:58
out here that are walking with you through life,
32:01
doing the same things,
32:03
and they want to know how to put this together.
32:05
And hopefully my memoir will do that for them.
32:09
[Michelle] Yes, absolutely.
32:11
Were there stories or memories that you
32:15
felt you needed to put in
32:17
this book that were difficult to revisit?
32:20
[Ann] Definitely. Yeah. There were
32:22
many things that had happened in my life,
32:25
things that were I wish I could have
32:27
told all happy and sweet stories.
32:30
It's not life. It's not life.
32:33
No, unfortunately. And I realized that.
32:35
And so in writing the bittersweet,
32:38
for a while, it was very funny.
32:40
I cried. I literally
32:42
cried when I wrote those things. And then I thought,
32:45
No, that was good to get them out to say them.
32:48
[Michelle] You know, I mean, I think there is something to be
32:51
said for getting your memories, your own memoirs,
32:54
so to speak, down on paper,
32:56
because it's important to see,
32:58
you know, what were the building blocks of your life.
33:02
[Ann] Exactly. And, you know,
33:03
some of those blocks are really hard
33:05
for you to get over. But in doing that,
33:08
Uh, whether you cry or
33:10
laugh at yourself, it doesn't matter.
33:13
It really makes it all come back around,
33:16
and you think of those things
33:19
as learning experiences often?
33:22
Yes. We become so much wiser when we're 88.
33:26
[laughter]
33:28
[Michelle] We don't want to give too much away about the book,
33:32
but what is something that readers might
33:34
be surprised to learn about you after reading the book?
33:37
[Ann] Well, I think one of the things
33:39
that many people didn't know.
33:40
And when I did the book
33:41
signing at E.B. Ball the other night,
33:43
I read to them the chapter on my grandfather,
33:46
who was a judge in the Nuremberg trials.
33:48
I don't think many people realized that I was a ward of
33:53
my grandparents and raised by
33:55
them on a strawberry farm in Northern Indiana.
33:58
So that was kind of an interesting thing,
34:00
and I was able to join him in Germany and
34:04
live there as an expatriate for
34:05
two years. That's something that
34:08
really got me into the mode of
34:11
travel and knowing how
34:12
we were all the same the world over.
34:15
And it was important to be
34:17
aware of people in many different countries.
34:20
So that was easy for me, too,
34:23
when I was asked as Fogg,
34:25
to go abroad and work with people in foreign countries.
34:28
Wow. By the American Craft Council,
34:31
I thought, What a natural.
34:32
Yes. I love to do that.
34:34
That's from a very early age
34:37
that I had been trained in that.
34:38
[Michelle] When people look back on your career,
34:41
what do you hope they'll say about the impact you've had?
34:44
I hope they will say that I was a teacher,
34:46
that I was a good teacher,
34:48
that I really enjoyed sharing with
34:52
them and that they really
34:53
learned something of value from me,
34:55
you know, of all the things I have done in my life,
34:58
whether it's been fog or whether it's been
35:01
a painting or helping in the community,
35:04
I felt that my natural inclination
35:08
was toward painting and teaching that painting.
35:12
And, you know, that has been the joy of my life.
35:16
I am so rewarded when a student says to me,
35:21
Ah, I loved being in your class.
35:23
[Michelle] Yeah, let's be clear that you are still doing that.
35:27
You are still teaching.
35:29
[Ann] They're gonna carry me out feet first.
35:31
I swear. And I'll have a paintbrush
35:33
in my hand. [Michelle] I love that.
35:36
Well, thank you so much and
35:37
for joining us on Pop of Culture and
35:41
sharing a little more about your
35:43
new memoir out now called Finding Fogg. [Ann] I thank you.
35:48
[Jen] Now it's time for What are you working on?
35:52
[Kara] This week, we'll keep the writing theme going.
35:55
Here's our interview with J. R. Jamison from last March.
35:58
[J.R.] Thank you for having me. It feels
36:00
really odd to be on the side of the mic,
36:02
but I'm really excited to be in conversation with you.
36:04
[Kara] Oh, I'm so glad you are.
36:06
Um, many of us listening
36:08
today are likely familiar with your first book,
36:11
Hillbilly Queer, a memoir
36:13
that was released in 2021. Mm hmm.
36:16
And if you're not familiar with it,
36:20
consider giving it a read.
36:21
I really enjoyed the book, and in my opinion,
36:24
it showed a lot of undergirding of love and
36:28
different experiences and paths and I don't know,
36:32
growing through openness, and
36:34
I think that's poignant right now.
36:36
[J.R.] Thank you. Yeah. I mean,
36:37
I'm amazed how the message has continued into 2025.
36:42
I just told someone the other day,
36:43
I'm really tired of talking about Hillbilly Queer.
36:46
I mean, I still do, right?
36:47
Because the message is important.
36:49
But it is I'm amazed by how that message has continued.
36:53
And I think it just speaks to where we are as a country,
36:56
too, and the whole idea of
36:58
art reflecting what's happening in the world.
37:01
That's really what the book is in many ways.
37:04
[Kara] It's so true. And we have a question for you.
37:07
Yeah. Our WAYWO, what are you working on?
37:11
Are there books on the horizon?
37:14
[J.R.} There are. You know, after I finished Hillbilly Queer,
37:17
I had to think about, what am I going to write next?
37:20
Because that's always the question that's
37:23
asked of every writer
37:24
and author after something comes out,
37:26
you kind of want to have
37:27
that moment where you're just sitting there
37:29
and happy with what's been put out into the world,
37:33
and also kind of just taking a break and a breath.
37:36
But you don't get to do that, and
37:38
people want to know what's next.
37:39
And so I had to think long and hard about what that was.
37:43
And for me as a writer,
37:44
it's always about why and how.
37:46
So for me, I'm always like, What do I
37:48
care about at this particular moment in time?
37:51
Why do I care so much about this thing that
37:53
it's keeping me up and I can't stop thinking about it?
37:56
And how am I going to get other people
37:58
to care about this, too?
37:59
And I do that through writing, right?
38:01
And that's the joy of storytelling.
38:03
So for Hillbilly Queer, for instance,
38:05
that What Why and How was where we
38:08
were in the nation in the world and still kind of are.
38:10
And what did that look like through
38:12
the lens of a story with
38:13
my own father who was on
38:15
a different side of politics than I was, right?
38:18
And if we were trapped in a car taking
38:19
a road trip, what does that look like?
38:21
But after all of that, I had to say,
38:22
What is my next, what, why and how?
38:25
And I think so much about queer youth and
38:28
what they're facing right now in the world,
38:31
always have, right, quite frankly.
38:33
But really, right now,
38:35
youth being under fire,
38:37
their parents being under fire.
38:39
And I started to think, how do I lean into
38:42
my background of young adult literature
38:44
and work on a YA novel?
38:45
So I did spend a couple of years writing that YA novel.
38:49
It's about a boy in Indiana who is
38:53
17 and is sent away to essentially conversion therapy.
38:57
He meets a teenage girl while he's there,
39:01
who is there for all the same reasons,
39:03
and they hatch a plan to escape,
39:05
and it's about making one's own way in the world.
39:09
It's about making their way from Indiana to
39:12
New York where they find home
39:14
among Chinatown's gay community.
39:16
And it's a story of resilience,
39:18
and it was a story that I
39:20
felt was important to write at that time.
39:22
So I did write that book,
39:24
and we're in the submission process right now.
39:27
But one of my Beta readers during
39:29
that process had a question for me that I was like,
39:33
Hmm, that's an interesting question.
39:35
She said, Why did he leave
39:38
Indiana to find comfort and safety?
39:42
And of course, I could answer that
39:43
in multiple different ways, right?
39:44
Like, I don't feel like this is always
39:47
a safe and welcoming place for LGBTQ people.
39:50
But at the same time, it's also
39:52
where I've made my home. So
39:54
I pondered on that, in my book that I'm writing right
39:57
now that's currently being
39:59
drafted in its first draft form,
40:01
is about a queer person who
40:03
chooses to stay in Indiana despite it all.
40:07
[Kara] Okay. I think it's so important to write literature with
40:14
these themes at this time when there are
40:17
so many people in the LGBTQIA+ community,
40:22
especially our T friends who are just feeling, um,
40:28
you know, unbelievable amount of
40:32
disrespect and being turned away.
40:35
Yeah. So now, as you continue to write,
40:40
does it feel different to you to write
40:44
non fiction as your first book was
40:47
and move into these fictional realms?
40:51
[J.R.] A little bit. So my background actually was in fiction.
40:55
I have an undergraduate degree in creative writing,
40:58
and I focused mainly on fiction and poetry.
41:01
I got away from that over time.
41:03
But after Hillbilly Queer and Hillbilly Queer coming out,
41:07
and I started thinking about what's next,
41:10
and I started thinking about where we were in the world,
41:12
which was in the middle of a global pandemic.
41:14
And what did I want?
41:16
I wanted to escape in some ways, right,
41:19
even though I'm writing about
41:21
real things in some ways that are happening in the world.
41:23
I wanted to do that through
41:24
a fictional life story that I was creating,
41:27
a world that I create to tell that what, why and how.
41:30
So really didn't feel odd to move back into fiction,
41:34
even though I had moved away
41:35
from it so many years before.
41:37
Well, can you tell us a little
41:39
bit more about the characters that
41:41
you were talking about that escaped
41:43
this conversion therapy?
41:45
Yeah, so the main character is Ray,
41:48
and he is a 17-year-old in Indiana, who loves Nirvana.
41:52
Sorry, Nirvana [laughter] is a little sheepish,
41:57
isn't very worldly, comes from a small town.
42:00
He gets the courage to come out to his parents, his mom,
42:05
who says, We need to tell your dad,
42:07
and his dad is not so accepting of his coming out.
42:11
And the mom also is a little sheepish,
42:14
and she takes the dad's advice
42:17
that he needs to be sent away to be fixed.
42:21
He's the main character. When he
42:23
gets to Warmouth Academy,
42:25
which is where they're sent for
42:27
conversion therapy, he meets Brooke,
42:29
and Brooke is a little more
42:31
rough and tumble, comes from a steel town,
42:33
a bit worldly, has hopped trains in the past,
42:38
to go see shows down in Indianapolis.
42:40
And she brings out
42:43
really courage in him
42:46
to find his own voice and find his own path,
42:50
and ultimately the courage
42:52
to escape the reality that they're in,
42:55
to live their life by their own terms,
42:57
even if that meant leaving Indiana.
43:01
[Kara] Well, I'm looking very forward to this book coming out.
43:07
Is there some place that we can find what
43:11
you've done and be
43:13
on the lookout for your book when it comes out?
43:15
[J.R.] Yeah, the best place to find anything I'm working on,
43:17
if it's any of my writing, speaking engagements.
43:20
Any of that is jrjamison.com.
43:23
[Kara] Excellent. And also, you can hear
43:25
J. R. every week on The Facing Project.
43:29
He's the host, and it airs on
43:31
Indiana Public Radio, Saturdays and Sundays.
43:35
Yeah, Saturdays at one, Sundays at
43:37
seven or get it anytime on the Pod.
43:40
[Kara] Nice. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for talking.
43:44
[J.R.] Yeah, thank you. This has been so much fun.
43:46
[Jen] Are you ready, Kara? [Kara] Let's do it.
43:48
[Jen] It's time for the arts calendar.
43:50
We will start with some in-house promotion.
43:53
It's going to be a beautiful day
43:56
in the neighborhood on Saturday, June 6.
43:59
Ball State PBS invites you
44:01
to Be My Neighbor Day at Canan Commons.
44:04
A map will lead children through the streets of
44:07
a very special neighborhood
44:09
where they will meet people from community centers,
44:11
arts organizations, charity groups, and more.
44:14
At each booth, kids will be able
44:16
to participate in fun activities,
44:18
and parents and caregivers
44:20
will discover ways to give back.
44:22
Oh, and meet Daniel Tiger,
44:25
star of Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood on PBS KIDS.
44:28
This family event is open to the public from 1:00 to 4:00
44:31
P.M. More info is at ballstatepbs.org.
44:36
Later in the afternoon on Saturday June 6,
44:39
grab your boarding pass and join IPR
44:42
at We Fly Fest on the campus of Ball State.
44:45
This event connects Ball State with
44:47
the community and will feature live music,
44:49
booths from all areas within the university,
44:52
lawn games, food trucks,
44:54
and activities for the whole family.
44:56
Us. Yes. Pop of Culture team will be there.
44:59
If you're already in the neighborhood
45:01
at Be My Neighbor Day,
45:02
make a connecting flight with
45:04
free community bus stops looping from
45:06
Canan Commons to the Brown Family Amphitheater
45:09
on Ball States campus.
45:11
Did we say that there are vouchers for
45:13
ice cream for the first 500 passengers?
45:16
[Jen] You did not say that, but it's important.
45:18
All flight details at bsu.edu/weflyfest.
45:24
[Jen] Summer Concert season is here,
45:26
and Yorktown summer series is already underway.
45:30
Friday, June 5, Chameleon Brothers
45:32
and Bella Robbins will perform,
45:34
starting at 7:30 P.M.
45:36
All Yorktown summer concerts are open to the public.
45:40
[Kara] Nice. Musical summer. Mm hmm.
45:42
A different type of concert will be on
45:44
the Yorktown Civic Green on Tuesday, June 9.
45:47
America's hometown band, led by Larry McWilliams,
45:51
will perform Jazz'n on Down the Road,
45:53
starting at 7:00 P.M. That evening.
45:55
[Jen] If you're not a fan of the warmer weather,
45:58
Oh, come on, man. Summer just got here, right?
46:00
Frozen. The Disney musical opens
46:03
June 5 on Muncie Civic Theater's main stage.
46:07
This magical musical adaptation
46:09
will melt even the iciest of hearts
46:12
and will breeze through until they have
46:14
to let it go June 28.
46:18
[Kara] I guess we'll allow that kind of frozen.
46:20
June is also Pride Month.
46:23
There are dozens of events throughout the month.
46:25
Thursday, June 11 is
46:27
Pride Night at the Indianapolis Indians.
46:30
And the next weekend, June 13 and
46:32
14th is the Indy Pride Festival.
46:35
Some other celebrations come later this year.
46:38
Fort Wayne's Pride Fest will be at the end of July,
46:41
and Muncie's Pride is set for September.
46:44
[Jen] The Delaware County Fairgrounds are open to
46:47
the public for the Country Flea Market,
46:50
June 6th through 8th from 8:00 to 4:00 p.m.
46:53
And if you have an event summer or frozen,
46:59
let us know about it, indianapublicadio.org
47:02
/contact and
47:04
click Pop of Culture.
47:14
♪♪
47:15
♪♪ [Luke] Support for Pop
47:20
of culture comes from Stallings Wealth Management
47:23
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47:25
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47:28
Those donations are important,
47:30
but they don't bring back the funding to IPR.
47:33
Your support pays for the programs you rely on,
47:36
especially local programs like this one,
47:38
and the people like me who create them.
47:42
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47:46
Give today at indianapublicadio.org.
47:50
[Jen] And that's our show.
47:52
Our fact checker and ethics curator is Stephanie Wiechmann.
47:56
This week was produced by Luke Jones,
47:58
who is working on having a memoir worthy summer.
48:01
It's called Mostly Ice Cream.
48:04
We had production assistance from
48:06
Andrew Montavon and Stephanie Wiechmann.
48:09
[Kara] Our show was hosted by me,
48:11
Kara DuQuette [Jen] and me, Jen Blackmer.
48:14
Pop of Culture is a production from
48:16
IPR on the campus of Ball State University.
48:21
[Braden] I was whatever was in the fridge, easy.
48:26
No, my fiance is, though,
48:29
so, you know, I'm an opportunistic eater.
48:33
Yeah. [laughter] Are we Oh, there's a button.
48:40
Do you hold the cough button? The cough button does not work.
48:44
Oh. I'm pressing it, and nothing's coughing.
48:47
[laughter] Got to have that looked at.
48:53
[laughter] We're in trouble.
48:57
I think God. [laughter]