Latest / Dadical / 6. Fatherhood as a Widower | Mike & Skyler Williams

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6. Fatherhood as a Widower | Mike & Skyler Williams · Dadical

• Seth Stoker: Lately, I've been thinking about what my guest Jordan Phillips said on a recent episode. He presented a complete reframe that I think each of us needs to go through and more importantly, needs to teach our kids. Jordan and his wife tried for nine and a half years to have kids before they were finally able to adopt their first child. And while that's a challenge that many people go through, it's not the only challenge that we're gonna face as fathers. Think about how many dads are experiencing similar and even greater pains and trials than Jordan did. While parenthood provides us with some of the greatest joys we can find in life, it's impossible to avoid the pain and sorrow that accompanies In those trials, we have to ask ourselves the question that Jordan taught us. Rather than wondering why is this happening to me, we can ask ourselves, why is this happening for me? Because what can often seem like an impossible trial in the moment can also become our greatest teacher. Jordan's nine and a half years of trying to have children biologically finally helped him to open the door to adopting Ella. What doors are we keeping locked? Because we aren't willing to consider what's on the other side. Today's episode provides us with an exceptional example of the exact mindset Jordan taught us. I had the opportunity to catch up with Skylar and Mike Williams, the first father and son duo I've had the pleasure of hosting on the podcast. In getting to know Skylar, you would almost never believe what he's been through. Skylar spent much of his adult life looking for the right partner to spend the rest of his life with. At age 35, he finally found her. And three years later, he lost her. And yet the message I got from Skylar wasn't one of pain or sadness, despite the fact that he's felt plenty of both. Instead, Skylar shared a message of hope and determination. He shared how Mike taught him to control what he can control and to focus on what really matters. They taught me that things are just things and they can be replaced, but your loved ones can't. So you should give them your whole heart while you can. I think you'll enjoy hearing the perspective of both of these great dads, and you'll gain an appreciation for why having Mike and his life helped Skylar to maintain the mindset that continues to get him through the massive challenges that he faces as a single dad. I learned so much through this conversation, and I think you will too. Here's Mike and Skylar. All right. Mike, Skylar, thanks so much for joining the Dadicle Podcast. Excited to have you on the podcast today and and really excited to chat with you. This is a a big milestone for the Dadicle Podcast, because we haven't had a father and a son on the podcast together. So I'm really excited to chat with both of you. Skyler Williams: Thanks for having us. Mike: Pleasure to be here. Yeah, and you'll get Seth Stoker: Well. Mike: both perspectives and Skyler can correct everything they say. Seth Stoker: Perfect, perfect. And and you know what? That's what I'm excited about is is we we don't get two different perspective on a lot of these stories that we're sharing, and so I'm really excited to hear from both of you. Mike, why don't you kick us off here? Why don't you introduce us to to you, Skyler, your family, and then we'll go from there. Mike: Well, I'll leave it up to Skyler to introduce himself, but I'm Mike Williams. I'm a a husband, Seth Stoker: Okay. Mike: a father, grandfather, and snappy dresser and a fine dancer. But Skyler, I'll let you introduce yourself. Skyler Williams: quite sure about those last two, but yeah, so Skylar Williams, Mike: Right. Skyler Williams: Mike Williams' son. I am a widower, widow, widower, widower, and I am a father as well, and learn from the best and my father. Mike: Well, we better end it right there. Can only go downhill. Skyler Williams: Right. Yeah, there we go, done. Seth Stoker: Well, you what? I would I would love to I'm excited to hear your thoughts about your dad, Skyler, and and kinda learn a little bit more about what you've learned from him and everything like that. But Mike, let's start from you start with you and get your perspective because you've got a little more time under your belt as a dad. And I'm I'm doing the best I can here, Mike. But all right, you're you're old. Mike: That's kind way of putting it. You can go ahead and say I'm old. Seth Stoker: But with that, you've got a lot of valuable experience. And so why don't you walk us through maybe starting your family, how your family started, where'd you guys start out, and walk us through that journey a little bit. Mike: Sure. And we've got a little bit of a family connection there, Seth, because it was your mom and dad that introduced my wife and I. And I I won't say they're directly responsible for us getting married because we went several years before we reconnected and eventually she asked me to marry her and it turned out pretty well so far. so we've got a family connection, but you were talking about it before. the whole starting a family thing, when I started the family. I had no idea what I was getting into. I had no idea. And I think you were right, you learn from your dad. But other than that, you're on your own and it's s sink or swim. Seth Stoker: Yep, exactly. By the way, I'm glad that you said you're giving my parents credit for introducing you rather than saying it's their fault. That means it's going well. So Mike: It is so far. My wife and I have an arrangement. I said the the first twenty five years that's the trial period. the next twenty five years is probationary period. And if she makes it to fifty years, we're gonna get serious. Seth Stoker: Yeah, it's starting to sound pretty serious, Mike. Mike: She's she's doing okay. Seth Stoker: Well, how how many kids do you have? Mike: I have four kids. Skyler's my oldest, then I have a daughter and two younger sons. I have eight grandchildren because I think all of my kids are underachievers because I wanted more. Skylar has an excuse, kind of. but eight grandkids. Seth Stoker: Eight grandkids. Well, what's it like to be a grandpa on the on on the back end of your fatherhood journey? Mike: You know, it's kind of a it's a lot of fun actually, because I get to see my kids looking through a rear view mirror of exactly what I went through with their own kids and knowing there's really not much advice that I can give because you probably know Seth, every child is their own individual and they don't come with a set of instructions. And so I think every dad is making it up as they go and all you can really rely on is Your your past experience, what you learned as a child growing up watching your dad. I did the same thing watching my dad and that's where I learned everything. So you just try and improve on the previous generation every time. Seth Stoker: Yep. You'll get a kick out of this, Mike, because you know my parents. But my mom, when I would make her mad, what she would always tell me is, I hope you have a kid just like you. And I had three of them. Mike: That's the that's the typical curse. Skyler Williams: Ha. Seth Stoker: Well, well, Mike, you mentioned kind of watching your dad. What types of things did you learn from your father growing up? Mike: You know, it's interesting. We just got a box of digitized old super eight movies and videos and things. So I was watching a couple of them this morning, and I see myself and my dad and just the way that I was raised as a kid. the backyard throwing the baseball around, just the little things like that that he would do. But I would watch him and I'd especially watch the way he treated his wife. because I think that's where you learn a lot is how. They treat their spouse and dads take that because I don't know if Skyler was paying attention, but I always tried to treat Skyler Williams: Mm. Mike: his mom pretty nice. And so hopefully Skyler Williams: Absolutely. Mike: that carried over. Skyler Williams: No, absolutely. That's I think one of the biggest things that I always watched was Seth Stoker: Very yeah. Skyler Williams: you. Seth Stoker: Well well, Skylar, let's actually talk about that because that's actually come up on the podcast a lot is the relationship with your wife and how that impacts your kids and the raising of your kids. And so, Skylar, tell me what you observed with with Mike and how he treated your mother. Skyler Williams: Well, it's with respect. he also trained us to respect your mother, respect your wife, respect your spouse. and it was never yeah. Seth Stoker: I'll pause you. How d how did he do that? How did he train you? Skyler Williams: it was by example. we we had a common saying in our house, right? The beatings must be working, but it it never was by force. It was you know, it was always just through example, watching him on a day-to-day basis, helping to to teach us proper methods, right? He would always get after us, go open your mom's door, make sure sh she doesn't get out by herself, you're opening it, you're closing it behind her. and and watching having him Tell us the things, but then also seeing his actions. you know, it was that's was the helpful reinforcement of being able to hear what he was asking us to do, but then also being able to see it on a regular basis. And I don't think I've ever seen an argument between my parents in my whole life. Now, granted, it probably happened behind the scenes, but never in my entire life do I remember. my father raising his voice to my mother. And I think that was a huge example to me of just how important that relationship was, was it's it's that mutual respect that they had for each other. Seth Stoker: Why do you think I don't think you recognize it in the moment? At least I I had an opportunity to watch my parents and the way they treated each other growing up. And that had a huge impact on me as well. But as a kid, especially, as you're observing that without even realizing the impact now, when you look back now, why do you think that's so important? Skyler Williams: That a question to me. Seth Stoker: Yeah. Skyler Williams: I think it's important just because of how you lived your life. Like if If you're trying to always teach a child, and I've recognized this in my own kids, that when I'm trying to actually teach them, it doesn't absorb as well as when I'm being the example for them. And they're seeing that constantly in their life. And I had, I guess I would say the opportunity as well of growing up in an area where fathers weren't always that respectful to their mothers or to their wives. And so I had that contrast of my family and the respect of my parents had with each other and my father had. And my friends and their parents and their fathers specifically towards their spouses. And so being able to just witness that as a child was very impressionable on me. and it was very I understood the respect aspect of it much more than just the personal. Yeah. Mike: You know, I woman's really funny here, Seth Sorry, Scott, I didn't mean Seth Stoker: Go ahead. Mike: to walk over to the top of you. I thought you were done. We Skyler Williams: No yo. Yeah. Mike: used to do what we used to do what we called man trips, where I'd take my three boys and we'd get into the car and we'd just take off. And we didn't really have a destination in mind of where we were gonna go. And we would drive out in the desert and that's where they learned how to drive and do all these things. We would always have conversations. And this is where it dawned on me the importance of setting that example. It wasn't until much, much later. But it I realized how important it was. We were driving past, and I can point to the exact spot on the road, and it was in Mantai. I don't know if you remember this, Skylar. Skylar was in the front seat of the truck with me, and my two younger boys were in the back. And my youngest son, as we're driving down the road, said, Dad, why do we always get into these deep discussions when we go on these trips? And Skylar, to his credit, turned around and said, Seriously, you don't know what he's doing? And I thought, okay, he's getting it. Skyler Williams: I was also post mission, I think, at that point. Seth Stoker: So what was he doing, Skyler? Skyler Williams: it was post mission at that point. So I think I understood a little bit better of, you know, there's there's a time and a place for everything. and if you lead by example, then it becomes easier to have those deep conversations. And I'm grateful for them. I don't, you know, it's one of those that we haven't done a man trip in a while and we need to, but that is where a lot of those kind of conversations came to head of Putting those pieces together of recognizing finally, he's been teaching me all along. It's just now I'm learning that he was teaching me all along. Mike: And the women weren't invited. No. Seth Stoker: So what we're no. Skyler Williams: Yeah. Mike: They they don't understand Seth Stoker: No I mean Mike: the the significance of buying firecrackers in Wyoming and then, you know, blowing little things up everywhere. They just didn't get it. They didn't understand the fun. Skyler Williams: Getting lost, yeah, just Seth Stoker: Well, Skyler, give me an example. You you talk about recognizing that he's teaching you. What are these deep discussions that you guys are having? Skyler Williams: Man, ever anything from purpose of life to what are you struggling with in school? you know, there was nothing that was off topic for us. It was let's have that. There was the trust I think that he instilled in all of us and the confidence in all of us to have those conversations. you know, I I remember some of those conversations and just how much. I now look back on those to help me in my troubles and trials, right? That I have now as a father. and recognizing, wait, my dad talked to us about this before. He talked about the struggles of, you know, growing up, I never thought we had financial troubles. And it was on those conversations where, wow, dad sacrificed a lot for us. And we didn't recognize it until afterwards when we're having those conversations of what those sacrifices were. And it truly came to head of wow, Dad hid a lot from, not hid, but protected us and shielded us from a lot of things that we just never recognized. We just saw that dad was this great man who was always taking care of us and protecting us, and not really recognizing what those sacrifices were. So I think that's one of the big things that I got out of those Seth Stoker: So look Skyler Williams: was recognizing that. Seth Stoker: Skylar, looking back, what sacrifices did he make? Mike: Nothing. Skyler Williams: Nothing. I I I think a lot of it You know, it's I don't know. There's stories of we would go clean the church and end up with toilet paper back at the house because we couldn't afford the toilet paper. But as a child, I never recognized that that was a sacrifice that was being made. And that because you know, my dad was just this man that was always out work, hardworking man that always taught me just do what you have to do for your family. And make sure that you're not worrying your children. Cause I think if it would have been known at that point in time, it's like, okay, I guess I'll use a little less toilet paper, you know, and Mike: Ha ha ha ha. Skyler Williams: maybe I'll use a towel. But I think that's where a lot of that came from was just recognizing later on in life what sacrifices he had made to ensure that we had a happiness and a happy childhood. Seth Stoker: So Mike, as you look back at those times on on your long, deep discussions on the man trips, what how much of that was deliberate and and intentional? And how much of that was just spur of the moment? Hey, kinda had an idea and and and we're running through it. Tell me about that. Mike: It was a hundred percent intentional. I I'm I'm Seth Stoker: Okay. Mike: I was a big believer that I had to spend time and everybody can say I'm they're gonna spend time with their kids and we's we commit a certain amount of time. The only downside of that is you don't get to decide when it's going to be impactful time. For example, Seth Stoker: Mm. Mike: th Skylar was we were fortunate. My job provided a lot of extra sky miles and hotel points and still I guess. So we were able to, despite the fact that we were went through a very tough struggle financially early, we went through a time when we were taking a lot of trips. And I remember gathering them around and saying, Okay, now I Skyler was I don't know how how old you were you when we went to Puerto Rico? You're pretty young, weren't ya? Skyler Williams: no I think that was Post mission. So I think I was right off the mission or it was just before the mission. Mike: Was it after your mission? I think it was before. But I remember Skyler Williams: Maybe it was just before. Mike: getting them together and saying, okay, what was your favorite part of the trip? Because we had a great time in Puerto Rico, a great time. And the youngest one, Trey, said, I like getting pizza and jumping on the bed at the hotel. But well, we could have done that 10 minutes from the house. We didn't go need to go to Puerto Rico for that. So I started realizing, okay, it can provide the time. But I don't get to choose what's going to be meaningful for the kids. They have to decide that on their own. So I was going to give them every opportunity, isolate them, get to a place where there are no distractions, and just start having those conversations about life in general. And it was and it wasn't just a a long drive for a big discussion. We had a lot of fun. We found some really Seth Stoker: Yeah. Mike: cool things. Seth Stoker: Like what? Mike: we found places that look like we were on the moon landscape. Like I said, we blew things up. We about rolled the truck down the side of a hill. We did a couple of things that my wife doesn't need to know about. Skyler Williams: Yeah. Seth Stoker: Nice. Well, so so Mike, a couple things then, because you were clearly very deliberate about taking those opportunities to teach and things like that. What was it important to you to teach your boys? Mike: Well, the reason it was so deliberate, because I saw my dad do it. He was deliberate about it and he he actually took the time. we didn't do man trips, but he spent just an inordinate amount of time with us as growing up. but I remember as a very young man, it was actually when I was serving a mission for the church, I watched someone that I respected, the leader of the church, holding the hand of his wife. And at the time I thought they were ancient. Now looking back, they probably weren't that old. But I saw him holding his wife's hand. And I thought, I like that. I like that concept. And so I thought, I'm going to do something deliberate to make sure that that happens in my marriage. And I also had a a friend that I was talking to, and this was in New Zealand, and I asked him, because he had a a family that I really admired, what do you do differently? Because Skyler's right. It it's it's nothing that I saw. Well, I'm gonna put that a different way. It's nothing that I didn't see happen, but he was very deliberate about it. He said every night when he'd put his kids to bed, he would sit on the edge of the bed and ask them, What could I have done differently today? And Seth Stoker: Mm. Mike: so I I was pretty young when I started to realize I've got to start putting together this whole idea of what a marriage is going to look for me, look like for me, because it just doesn't happen naturally. You have to find sources to to rely on. Seth Stoker: Man, I I love that. I I love that for so many reasons too, because I also think as a dad, it's really important to show humility and help your kids understand that, hey, I'm not perfect. I'm not expecting you to be perfect either, but we're gonna own our mistakes when we make them. And so being willing to sit down and say, Hey, what could I have done better today? I think that goes a long way. But I'm probably I we we got somebody else here who could tell us. So so Skyler, what impact did that have on you? Skyler Williams: I mean significant impact. 'cause I was able to adopt many of those things into my own life. and you know, dad says holding hands is I guess when you're nineteen, seeing that that was huge impact on me, even seeing my parents constantly always holding hands in the car walking. It was th there's never a downtime for that. And so I think for me that also had that impact of what is a marriage? What does that look like? And what is the effort that you have to put into it? Right. There's there's I still remember a very valid, very important day for me too. Is again, I was in high school. It was Valentine's Day. And my mom, my dad, first of all, doesn't dance, hates dances. he'd say he Mike: Yeah. Skyler Williams: always went to the dances in high school just so that he can watch people. And so sorry. Mike: No, no, no. I would go to the dances where large groups of youth would go and you make sure that you shook everybody's hand, all the leaders that were there, because then when you left you had a perfect alibi. Skyler Williams: Yeah, there we go. So that's how I was brought up, right? Dance. That's where his his thoughts were around dances. But I I remember they were doing a an adult dance for the area, and my mom was always bugging him to go dancing, from what I remember stories. And he showed up in a tux. Granted, it was a Mickey Mouse tuxedo. But I remember that day of just how the importance of showing up for your wife and and seeing that. reaction from my mom when he walks in, a, he's in a Mickey Mouse tuxedo, but just for her to be that excited of like, wow, he actually is trying to do something for us. And so for me, that that just helped to stamp that into the importance of showing up as a father, as a husband, and always looking for those opportunities to continue to date your spouse. Cause I think that's another huge problem that, you know, a lot of the times dads get into is We're juggling a lot of things and we forget to continue to date our spouse. and so I think that's where that was kind of that eye opener for me of wow, okay. There's my dad's still trying to date my mom. And I that's had a huge impact on me. Seth Stoker: Yeah, it's funny that you say that because I I I've got some friends or I've had some friends over the course of of my my adult life where there's some people who don't want to leave their kids. They feel bad leaving their kids and going out on dates and things like that. And I always tell them like the number one marriage advice or or parenting advice that I give young parents, especially is leave your kids. It's okay, go on go on the date, go on the trip or whatever, because it's good for them to also to a to see you prioritizing your relationship. But also B, they learn that you come back and and they don't have to worry and things Skyler Williams: Right. Seth Stoker: like that. And so Mike: And as a parent you you come to recognize, hey, they're still here. Seth Stoker: Yeah, Skyler Williams: Yeah. Seth Stoker: exactly. They're not going anywhere either. So Skyler Williams: They're not going anywhere. Seth Stoker: that that's awesome. Now, Mike, you I mean, you you guys have kind of touched on some financial struggles and and you know career situations early in your in your family's time. You mentioned that you took your family on a big move across the country. I want to hear about that. Mike: Yeah, there there was being a father is not for the faint of heart. Right. You Seth Stoker: That's the truth. Mike: guys all understand that. And being a hundred percent committed to it is ultimate importance. it took me a long, long time to graduate college. Took me thir almost thirteen years to get a bachelor's degree because I took a part time job that turned into a lot of travel. Seth Stoker: You're not a doctor? Mike: I should have been. Yeah. At this point. Skyler Williams: The the number of holiday ins he's stayed in, he is. Seth Stoker: there you go. Mike: Yeah, and so we were offered a job. I say job. It was a sales position, a hundred percent commission. You only get to eat it if you kill it. and it was sixteen hundred miles away. Now I had been in Michigan and I had been there in the middle of winter when it was just brutally cold, when you can't breathe through your nose, and I don't know if Skyler's been there. I don't know if you've ever experienced that, Seth, where you just it's impossible to take a deep breath because it's so cold. It's brutal. Seth Stoker: Not that cool. Mm mm. Mike: And I got this offer to go move to Michigan. And the only impression that I had of Michigan until that point was, wow, the people that live here are really crazy. So we decided we'd move there and prove that. But yeah, they're they're actually crazy. So we loaded up. We moved to Michigan. I had Skylar, my daughter, and a third son was a couple months away from joining us. So my wife is I had 2.5 children. I didn't even see the apartment that we moved into until I carried the couch in the first day. We showed up. I met with my new employer. I was, like I said, 100% commissioned. He handed me a couple of three day three ring binders, said, here's your list of accounts. Good luck. That was how I was introduced into this world. It was definitely a sink or swim. I remember having a conversation with him when I when I he offered the job. He says, What happens if it doesn't work? I said, It has to work. Failure is not an option. Because I had, I was doing something that I thought, okay, this is going to be significant for my family. Granted, it was taking everybody away from what they knew from the home, relatives and everybody's security, and moving a long ways away. And just living on the roll of the dice. And that's when, you know, it took us a long time to get established, but it was definitely worth it because we had some fantastic experiences. It drew our family closer together, I think, living that far away from everybody because it made us recognize that okay, everything else can go away. All we have is our family. And I think that was very valuable to everybody. Seth Stoker: I love that you said it helped your family grow closer together. And I was I I was fortunate enough even both A growing up with my parents moving around quite a bit, but also Mike: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: my wife and I early in our marriage, we ended up moving to New Mexico for a couple of years. And I always give the advice to I it sounds like I give a lot of advice. I I shouldn't, but Skyler Williams: Yeah. Seth Stoker: I give the advice to to move away and and Figure out how to live on your own. It's great to be with family. It's great to have that to fall back on and things like that. But sometimes I think it can be a little too much of a safety net or a little too much of a safety net's probably the wrong word, but you're you truly need to figure out how to operate as a unit, you know, as one, as a couple. And I feel like getting out on your own away from you know, from all the all your safety nets forces you to really rely on each other. Mike: That's the rational side. And I'm a hundred percent behind the rational side. The emotional Seth Stoker: Okay. Mike: side, if anybody tries to take my grandchildren and move them sixteen Seth Stoker: Mm. Mike: hours away by car, that's not gonna make me a happy camper and it'll definitely make my wife not like you. Seth Stoker: That that's fair. From a grandpa's perspective, I totally get it. Now, Mike: Yeah. Seth Stoker: Skyler, you were experienced this. How old were you when you guys moved to Michigan? Skyler Williams: I was five. Seth Stoker: You're five. So what do you remember about that? Skyler Williams: I I don't remember much from when I was five. I do remember I don't remember the move much. I do remember though of just being out of our element. It was definitely fish out of water kind of feeling for a while there. you know, establishing brand new. I I I can only imagine having to be in that situation and establish yourself and have zero friends, right? At least most people move and they kind of have an idea of where they're going, who they're going with, and who's there. But I I I do remember that we relied heavily then on others around us in our community, both in the church community and those that lived around us. and just how close we became with those individuals that I I I still think that they're, you know, we we always had a joke we had a my mom had a a friend that we called her our second mom. She was the mean mom. Our mom was the nice mom and her, she was the mean mom. Seth Stoker: Nice. Skyler Williams: But just that idea of that I felt like we were taken under our wings and we had multiple different parent parental influence to help us with that. Tried to remember that aspect. Seth Stoker: Now, how long did you guys live there? Skyler Williams: Thirteen years? Fourteen Mike: Fourteen and a half years. Skyler Williams: and a half? Well, I was there thirteen. It's whatever. Yeah. Seth Stoker: Okay. So you don't r obviously you don't remember much about moving out there, but you spent the bulk of your childhood in Michigan. Skyler Williams: Yeah. Yep. Seth Stoker: Okay. Okay. Well it Skyler Williams: Lot of the formative years. And that's where I say I I had really good contrast examples of what a good father is and what a bad father is. because of again where we are at and who we were surrounded by, both our neighbors and friends. Seth Stoker: Well, you've talked about the man trips a little bit and some of the experiences that you've had. What other experiences do you feel like kind of illustrate what you've been able to learn from your dad? Skyler Williams: I continue to learn from him. you know, there's there's still those moments where I'm struggling with something or I've got questions and you know, it's I play softball and every Tuesday, because I'm a widow, my parents come down and they help take care of my kid while dad comes to the softball games with us. And so there's still learning moments there where we're we talk on the r on the way to the softball game and on the way back. And you know, I there's I look at it that he's never done teaching me. there's always something that I can learn from him at that point. You know, he I I recognize that I don't know everything. Dad knows everything. and so that's right. That's right. Dads only know the important stuff. Seth Stoker: Just ask him, right? Mike: no, dads know only the important things. Skyler Williams: So, you know, I think that's where I I I have that outlook on life too, is it's I'm never done learning. I I don't know what I'm doing. And so If I can lean on others that may have an idea of what they're doing, I'm gonna lean on that and and and hope that at least I'm being guided in the right direction. Seth Stoker: Well, Skyler, I want to dive into your story, but I got one last question for Mike before we do. Mike, we talked about man trips, we talked about raising boys. Now you've got a daughter. Tell me how you had to parent your daughter differently than how you parented these boys. Mike: She didn't get to go on the man trips. that was it. No, you know Seth Stoker: Okay, that's it. Mike: what? And quite honestly, and this is the brutal truth, my wife did a phenomenal job. I had very little to do with it. I tried to set a good example, but I did very little with very little with raising the kids. It was all my wife. And so it pays to marry. In fact, I've you've heard the term marry up. We were talking with a Seth Stoker: yeah. Mike: bunch of my friends, and I mentioned that I married up, and the guy laughed and he said, No, Mike, you married out of your species. So, yeah, Skyler Williams: Ha ha ha. Mike: it's it's a completely different ballgame when you find the right woman. I that's one thing I was gonna mention too, Seth. Our family has a motto. It's run it out. And the reason we have that run it out is for years, my dad always coached my baseball teams. everything we did, he was the coach. He was really good at getting the most effort out of every player. It didn't matter if you were behind, if you were ahead. The score didn't matter. If I hit a little tiny ground ball to third base, my dad from the dugout would always yell, run it out, because he wanted to see maximum effort from you from home to first on every play, every time, every situation. Didn't matter. You had to run it out. In fact, it's in etched on his Tombstone, run it out. Seth Stoker: Wow. Mike: And so Skylar and I have a small company that we've put together. It's run it out. it becomes our family motto. And so that's one thing I tried to instill in the kids is it doesn't matter what you're doing or what the circumstances are, what the environment's like. You owe it to yourself. You owe it to everybody around you to give it your best and run it out. That didn't help you with Seth Stoker: I love that. So Mike: my explanation of how to raise a daughter because I have no idea how to raise a daughter. My wife did it. Seth Stoker: You know what, I would argue though, that with how much I've heard from Skyler about you prioritizing the way you treat your wife, that alone is a huge teacher to your dog. Mike: I hope so. Seth Stoker: I think I think that a lot of times at well I I think what we should be trying to do as fathers is model what she should expect from her spouse as as she gets married. And I think the the better job we do of setting that example and the way we treat their mother, they that creates a certain expectation of them of of who they're going to allow to to enter their life. And so that that's what I try to do and I I'm I'm sure you did same. Mike: I hope I did. And she picked wisely, let's put it that way, with Seth Stoker: Good. Mike: with her husband. Seth Stoker: That's a win. Mike: It's a win. Skyler Williams: Yes. Seth Stoker: So so Skylar, what impact has Rut It Out had on you? Skyler Williams: It applies to everything I do in my life. like d my dad said it's it's full family motto. it's it's how I behave in work. I give it my all 110%. just everything in my life is is that way that I always have to I I make sure that I give my all to everything that I'm doing, even if it's sometimes at the detriment of me, right? It's it's just in my nature at that point. just to always give that. Mike: One other thing that I tried to instill in them too, Seth, is there's a a huge difference between having the the physical needs in life. it's just a thing. And I'll give you an example. This is when I started to realize well, no, not when I started to realize. This is just a re reaffirmation to me. Skylar was getting this very young. Two weeks ago, Skylar, your trailer burned? Skyler Williams: Two weeks ago. Yep. Mike: Yeah, his his Fifth Wheel Motorhome trailer caught fire. And his father in law was working on his motorhome and it caught fire and lit Skylar's on on fire and destroyed them both. He was at work, or no, you were at lunch with some friends, weren't you? Yeah, and I Skyler Williams: at lunch. Yeah, I was at lunch. Mike: I sent him a message because I got word that hey, it looks like somebody's house is on fire. I sent him a message, he found out it was his trailer on fire. But he was so nonchalant about it and so non and non affected by the fact that his motorhome is on fire that the two guys that were with him said, How can you be so calm? And his answer was, It's just a thing. And when I heard that, I thought, Okay, he gets it. I'm I'm my my teaching is done. Skyler Williams: Yeah. Still not done, but yes. Seth Stoker: Yeah, he's like, Don't stop. Skyler Williams: Yeah. That's one of the things that I think was instilled in me early on too was your your glass is either half full or it's half empty. And and having a a great outlook on life, regardless of what comes your way, if you don't have control over it, why let it work yourself up? And I think that's one thing that was always instilled in me that it's just a thing. It's okay. no one got hurt. Right. And so that's just part of my life is Crappy things sometimes happen and it's how we respond that shows the true character of a man. And you know, that's just one example of the the trailer catching fire. we were we were at lunch, had just placed the order and I hung up the phone with my father in law and I said, Well, my trailer's on fire And the two guys were like, Do we have to go right now? I like, No, let's finish eating. It's fine. There's nothing that I can do right now. Right. It's it's just a thing, it's okay. And so I think that's just part of life. Things are gonna happen to you and how you react to is gonna be a an example to those around you. Mike: I learned that lesson very young too. I was I was 15, didn't have a driver's license. My mom actually sent me to the store to buy some things for my dad's birthday cake. My mom and dad had just purchased a brand new right off the showroom floor station wagon. So I took the station wagon down to the store on the way back. The grocery started to fall off the front seat. I reached over and pushed him back on the seat and at the same time moved the steering wheel slightly to the right, hit a parked pickup truck, and totaled their brand new two month old car. My dad, when I called him to tell him, which was not a comfortable conversation, Skyler Williams: Yeah. Mike: my dad said, Are you okay? I said, I will be. He says, Okay, it was just a car. I can replace it. That's what taught me. Seth Stoker: I, Skylar, you said that how you respond is ultimately what I want to get it right. What I don't think it was what determines your character. Maybe it was. Maybe how you respond is what determines your character. Is that what you said? What defines your character? There you go. Skyler Williams: It defines it defines your character. Yeah. Seth Stoker: I hope plenty of young dads hear that and take that to heart because that's something that I wish I would have heard earlier in my. Journey of fatherhood because it's so easy to fly off the handle and it none of us are perfect all the time, right? Like we run into situations where where we react poorly and things like that. But what a great thing to remember as a dad that it's the way I respond that defines my character, and it's also it speaks volumes to my kids. That's that's a that's a great lesson. So so Skylar, let's move to your story. And I I'd love to hear a little bit. I mean, it sounds like you kind of started your family later in life. So so why don't you walk us through your path? Skyler Williams: Yeah, so I was definitely, you know, the the late bloomer, I guess you would say, to marriage. and so I was 35 when I got married. and then had my first child when we were what would that be? 38. I was thirty-eight. Yeah, thirty-eight with my first child. and so, you know, could never pinpoint what the exact reason was. It was just I couldn't find the right one. I couldn't marry up enough. And so Yeah, got married in 2020 during COVID. What a great time. and so, you know, met her through church. and then everything happened from there. And so we got married late in life. And then in 2024, my wife, we learned that she had cancer, and three months later she had passed away. So whirlwind of a marriage. I now have a she had a previous child from another marriage, and so I have a a stepson. He's nine now and then my daughter's three now. So my wife passed away. daughter was one and a half at that point in time. And so, you know, again, things happen. and have no control over it. And so again, as the outlook on life, I can either roll over and say, Woe is me, or I can look up and I can say, How do I move forward? You know, and and learn from what's happened and have the best outlook on life that I can on it. cause I think in a lot of situations, someone would roll over and just be devastated. Don't get me wrong, I still am devastated and still have days where that devastation definitely shows up and the emotions come. But I think big part of it again is recognizing, you know, my wife, she had struggled with rheumatoid arthritis. Since she was 12. And then she was, or sorry, since she was 18, she was diagnosed with RA. And then she's actually suffered from diet type one diabetic from the age of 12. So she's had a lot of health issues through her life. And so for me, you know, part of my grieving is to understand that she's no longer in pain. Right. And so I again, glass half empty, or is it half full? and so. You know, that's that's my story. And being able to be that constant rock for my children to see that, yeah, there's times, you know, they still see me cry and there's times where we talk about it. but to see that I have that strength to continue moving forward, I think it's been really big blessing for both of my kids. you know, the nine year old especially to be able to see that of okay, we can honor mom. And we can still grieve our mom. but in part of honoring her is moving forward and and maintaining and keeping her in our hearts and in our minds at all times. And so, you know, that's just a little bit about me. And I think part of that did come from my upbringing of how do we handle those hard times and and how do we approach them. So yeah, so I think that's that's obviously my story. Seth Stoker: Well well, thank you. I I've got a million questions for you, but what I I Skyler Williams: Yeah. Seth Stoker: think the first one that comes to mind is why don't you tell us what can you tell us about your wife? Skyler Williams: man, she was spunky, sassy. She was Mike: It's a good way to put it. Skyler Williams: she was my best friend. She was great. She she always brightened up a room with her laughter. she definitely you knew if she was in the room. she was very loud, both personality-wise and voice-wise. and so there was never a quiet time in our life. you know, but she was also very patient and kind. And she was a a dreamer. you know, I always ended up as the DIYer because she had a dream. She had, let's do this, let's let's try to do this to the house and make it ours. And so yeah, she just was something special to everyone that she met. She she made everyone feel comfortable, which is I think what drew me to her initially was just that sunshine that she had. The love for life that she had. Seth Stoker: She sounds amazing. I I appreciate Skyler Williams: Cheers. Seth Stoker: you you telling us a little bit more about her. Maybe just one more thing. I've got a question for Mike, but but before I do, you said that one of the things that has helped you is just to be able to look at this situation is what can I learn from it? And so what have you learned? Skyler Williams: I I could do hard things. it's probably the biggest one. and just that life is precious. that you need to again, there are there are things in life and there are people and relationships in life. And the people and relationships are the most important. And you know, you can Work your tail off and never be home and still provide for your family and give them everything that they ever wanted. But if you don't have those relationships, what does it matter? You know, I think that was a huge shift in my my life because leading up to getting married, I was very work focused. I was, I traveled a ton. I was never home. And, you know, having those and learning that relationship side of it, it's just like, I don't I don't care about that anymore. I don't need the prestige. I don't need to be the vice president, the president of a company. as long as I have those relationships in place and that I have people I can call on, when times are hard or when times are great and be able to share in that joy with them. Mike: Seth, I I was gonna say, we talk you're talking about learning how to be a father. I'm still learning too. And Skyler was a great teacher. As he was going through this with Kimber passing, and hearing about it and then watching him, and it's it's really an interesting situation where you watch your child go through something that you can't help with. You have no, you know, Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Mike: there's nothing I could do to help the situation, and to watch him and watch the compassion. The care and just the example that he was of strength through the whole process was amazing. And it it really made me realize some of the things that I tried to teach were coming through. A lot of the things that his mom taught did come through. Skyler Williams: Yeah. Seth Stoker: Well, it is interesting how in the moment as a dad, even when you're being as deliberate as possible to teach your kids, the payoff is usually a lot later. You don't get to see the impact of the lessons that you're teaching Mike: yeah. Seth Stoker: right away. And that's one of the things that like it's a it's a beautiful joy of fatherhood when you get to see it. But it's also really difficult to to wait that long to be able to get the payoff. But it sounds like you're able to see that in spades right now with Skyline. Mike: Absolutely. With all my kids I see it, but especially with Skylar. Seth Stoker: So Skylar, obviously this is an incredibly difficult time in your life. You've mentioned a couple times the relationship that you have with your dad. What has that meant to you as you've gone through this challenge? Skyler Williams: it's I mean, Mike: Mm. Skyler Williams: besides the constant babysitting that him and my mom are doing for me, Seth Stoker: Ha ha ha. Mike: It's your mom. Skyler Williams: it it's yeah, it's mom. It's grandma's house, it's never grandpa's house. But Mike: Ha ha. Skyler Williams: you know, you know, I think it's just having that knowledge in the back of my head that if I ever did need anything at any point in time, no matter what time of day and night it might be, that I could call on my dad for both emotional support. bounce ideas off of you know, and so it's I I that's the biggest thing for me is just again having someone in my corner with me to be able to have and and that I trust that also has what's in my best interest to have conversations with. You know, it's even if it's hey, I'm thinking about selling my house, is this a smart idea? Or I'm buying a trailer, you know, it's It it's always those kind of things of, yeah, I mean, Seth Stoker: Don't buy the trailer. Skyler Williams: he t he told me not to, but here we are. But you know, it's sometimes you listen, sometimes you do. That's right. Yeah, Mike: Yeah, just because I give dad advice doesn't mean you listen. Skyler Williams: I I think that's the big part of it, is just that extra soundboard of someone that That knows what I'm feeling, and and even if it's just a small percentage of what I'm feeling, but someone that does understand. Mike: You know, we we and sometimes when I think about some of the hardships that I dealt with and how they pale in comparison to some of the things that Skylar's going through. And I think that's true no matter no matter what the circumstance is for you. It doesn't take long to take a look around and realize, no, we were incredibly blessed. Regardless of the circumstance, you can always, to Skylar's point, you can always learn something from it, and it's how you react to it. That really determines who you are as a person. Seth Stoker: So Skyler Having losing your wife with such young kids obviously poses some interesting challeng difficult challenges even from a logistical standpoint and everything else. And so talk to me about what it's been like to make the adjustment from having a a a partner to work together with and raising kids to now having to go through life as a single dad for right now. What does that look like? Skyler Williams: Crazy. you know, I thought I've I I never truly had a understanding of what mothers do on a day-to-day basis. even when I was married, I was working from home, I still really didn't grasp exactly everything that was going on, both from an emotional standpoint and support of the children to the logistical stuff. and so I think that's one of the, you know, holy cow, how much do they do? I what a husband does, what a dad does is is super important. But I think it's what the mother does inside the home that's the biggest for it. And I I think that's one of the things that I I've recognized is now that Maxie, my three year old, she she has such good examples now from so many of different people from a logistical standpoint that are watching her on a daily basis while I work. And You know, and and just being away from her of just that emotional attachment that you have. And I recognize, wow, that's what moms feel like. Cause I always hear moms talk about, my daughter went away yesterday at six in the morning and didn't come home until eight o'clock at night. And I wanted to texture. That was a quote from my sister yesterday, right? Like, I've Mike: Ha ha Skyler Williams: never understood that attachment, that emotional attachment until this has happened. And now I'm like, I get it. I, you know. I know that Maxi's in a good place. I know Brixton's in a good place, but man, I I I miss them. You know, and before it was, I'm at work. my mind's at work and it's it's no longer just at work. I've got 36 tabs open in my my mind browser at this point of what do I have to do? What's coming on the dockets? what birthday presents do we need to buy? And I forgot you just got preschool tomorrow. You know, there's just all these different things that I don't think as a husband I ever recognized before because my wife did all that. And so I think that's one of the big learnings that I've had is just the again, Dad's point, the importance of finding a good woman that you can trust and rely on to manage that stuff for you. So that again, I can have twenty eight tabs open instead of thirty six. Seth Stoker: So Mike: No, but I think it's important too to recognize that the the roles are very distinct and different, but n one is not more important than the other. And it's a true partnership. And that's why when, you know, I Skylar married late because he was looking for just the right match. I think it's important to understand, too, that at the same time Skylar was looking for the right match, you have to become the right match. And once you find someone that you're compatible with, There's no guarantee it's going to work. It still takes a lot of cooperation, forgiveness, and kind of a turn a blind eye because you can always find faults. But you don't need to. You know, when you focus on what is truly good and you're grateful for it, you don't need to worry about the rest of it. Seth Stoker: Yeah, in fact, I mean, it's so easy to find fault in anyone, right? Mike: Mm-hmm. Seth Stoker: But heaven forbid somebody else have to go through what Skylar has gone through in order to be able to appreciate what their spouse was contributed to the relationship and everything like that. And I think that's that's great advice for any dad to recognize recognize and appreciate the things that your partner does because you probably don't realize all of it. So so Mike: No, you Seth Stoker: Take some time, take some time, figure it out and and appreciate what they're bringing to the table because I promise it's more than you think. Mike: Take her on a date this Friday. Seth Stoker: That's right. That's right. So, Skylar, I I've talked to a lot of dads who had young kids and they talk about being in survival mode. And that's very common, right? You've got young kids, you're kind of thrown to the wolves, and they have partners. So how do you as a as a single dad make sure that you're not just in survival mode, that you're still taking opportunities to teach your kids and do the things that you want to be intentional about, like Mike did? How are you doing that with your kids? Skyler Williams: You know, it's it's an interesting question 'cause again, I've had to there there's two different modes in my mind that and anybody that watches Maxi knows that when Maxi is in your control, when you have and you're watching Maxi, you don't need to worry about calling me and asking if you can do this or that. Right. It's it allows me to take that off my plate and put the trust in those that are watching Maxi and that they're gonna do what's best for her. And then when I have Maxi or Brixton, you know, it it really is. It's it's focused on them. It's we're going out, we're We're going to the park. We're spending time together. We're you know, I I don't put off the chores, right? I I take her to do the chores because I think it's important that your children still see that there's things that has to still get done. And I'm not just putting it all off so that I can go play with you for 24 hours. But I think that's where the big part of it is, is it's we spend a lot of time together. We we do a lot of camping. Well, we did a lot of camping trips and tried to spend time as much as possible out Mike: Used to. Skyler Williams: in the wilderness. and and you know, I think that's finding and making the time and being able to shut down those other chaotic things that are happening, although life may be crazy, gotta sit down and and enjoy life with her. And so, you know, I think that's that's where I've done is those chores that I have to do. I and Have her with me. If I'm out mowing the lawn, she's helping me mow the lawn or drawing chalk on the driveway. And I'm stopping what I'm doing if she's yelling for me. She wants me to come see her picture that she drew. It's again, it's being, Seth Stoker: You better go see the picture. Skyler Williams: I better go see that picture, you know, and it's it's being deliberate around that of sh prioritizing her or Brixton again, you know, as I'm doing my daily activities, that there's nothing that's more important to me than her. And that even comes through when I'm working. I work from home. And there's multiple many days where the individual that's watching Maxie that day can't come till later on during the day, for instance. I'll have her in here playing. She likes to come in and get on video conference calls with me. And, you know, I told my dad the other day, she'll get on video conference calls and I don't care what my coworkers think. Because that again is me. That is my life. And if she wants to get on the call with us and say hi, that's perfectly fine. you know, 'cause that's again, that is what is important to me is being able to not continually push her away, but to invite her to come into the things that are important in my life. and so that she knows that she is one of those important things in my life as well. Seth Stoker: So a question that comes to mind for me, Skylar, is and we we can we can cut this if it doesn't make sense, but I'm just curious now that you're you're raising your kids and they're gonna go through life and obviously not have great or not have hardly any memories of their mother and things like that. So how do you go about preserving her memory with your kids? Skyler Williams: Yeah, you know, I think that's we've started to do it more now where we'll t we tell stories. I'll tell them different stories. photos, photos are a big thing where we'll look over photos and talk about the things that that you know, where that photo was taken. she's also learning things about her mom from everyone that sh she goes to. She so Kimber's mom watches her one of the days. my mom watches her and then my sister watches her. And so I think You know, she goes to ants all the time and there's there's no shortage of stories being shared with children. And so when when things come up that remind us of mom, we talk about it. and it's you know, it's there's nothing that's off the table for them to ask. and, you know, I don't want them to be ashamed that their mom's not here, but I want them to be able to ask questions and feel like they can ask questions of anybody and and get to know their mom through others. And I think that's What I've tried to instill in them is let's talk about it. I don't, you know, if they start to have grieving moments, we we talk about it. And so that we can continually keep her in our minds. There's also, I mean, all of the pictures we still have in the house. so it's, you know, Kimber still is very much in our lives and we talk about it. And, you know, my daughter's always asking, Is mommy with Jesus? And so, you know, we have those kind of open conversations about where mommy is and for instance, just the other day, she she sees I still have my wife's, you know, on CarPlay. You still have I still have my wife's text message picture on CarPlay. And I use it for shopping notes and stuff, right? If I need to send a note, I know I gotta buy this, I'll send it to Kimber. And she saw it and she was like, I want to text mommy. I was like, Okay, let's text mommy. You know, so it's things like that where she may not fully understand what's going on. And I just I let her. She's I want to call mommy. And I'm like, well, I don't think mommy's gonna be able to answer today. I don't think cell phones are in heaven. Mike: Yeah. Skyler Williams: And so we have those open conversations. and there's I think it's helped in them being comfortable being able to ask those questions. That it's not, you know, it's we don't talk about that, guys. It's that's the past. It's it is very much their life. And so it's something that I'm prioritizing in their life that they always have those memories. Seth Stoker: Mike, what's it like for you being able to watch Skylar as a dad? Mike: It's rewarding. I I I enjoy it because I can see some of the things that he struggles with, the same things that I struggled with, different different circumstances, but he's gone through the exact same thing, how to do it and how to how how do you figure it out. But the one thing that I've always kind of admired about watching Sky all my kids actually, is the how freely they'll communicate with their children that they love them. And I I worked for a guy boy, this is a long time ago. And he would interrupt, and to Skyler's point, this made me think of it. He would interrupt an important business meeting that we would be sitting in to take a phone call from one of his kids. And he told his secretary, I don't care, you always come in with if I if they call. This is way before a cell phone, so that must have been urgent, right? It was something important. And he never ended the conversation with one of his kids without saying, I love you. And it didn't matter who else was in the room, who else was in the meeting, and he wasn't worried about looking like he's a s you know, a sentimental fool or that people would make fun of him, he would always tell his children that he loved him on every conversation. And so I thought I like that. And so we kind of adopted that in the family and it gets kind of routine now. Okay, love you by. I've heard Skyler tell his coworkers, love you bye. I've heard other people that when they didn't mean to say I love you, but they tell people on the phone because Seth Stoker: Ha ha ha. Mike: it becomes just part of who they are. So watching Skylar demonstrate the love to Maxie and Brixton and everybody around her, always letting them know that they're loved, it's very rewarding to know that that is a another lesson that's sticking. Seth Stoker: Did that have an impact on you, Skylar? Like did it matter to hear your dad say I love you? Skyler Williams: It did. You know, I probably not in the moment. There's probably times I was like, Dad, don't say it because I'm with friends, right? Like, don't want to be embarrassed. Keep it down, cause then I have to tell you I love you back. No, it's I Yeah, yeah. It's a bad idea, Dad. I think Seth Stoker: Keep it down. Mike: This the school PA system was a bad idea, is what you're telling me. Skyler Williams: for sure, you know, looking back on it absolutely had a profound impact on me because it it did help me to know that regardless of anything, dad loved me. And and so yeah, absolutely. It's had a huge impact on my life. I don't think it was ever a I yearned for his love, but I knew that I had his love. Seth Stoker: So Mike: Skyler's mom would always say, I love you, but I don't like what you're doing right now. Seth Stoker: My mom would take it a step further. I love you but I don't like you right now. Mike: Yeah. Seth Stoker: Which was fair given how I was as a kid. So Mike: Yeah, it's understandable. Skyler Williams: Yeah, yeah. Seth Stoker: yeah, absolutely. Well, let's let's fast forward. Well, how do I want to ask this? maybe I'll ask this a different way. Skyler, how would you describe Mike as a dad? Like if somebody said what was Mike like as a dad, how would you describe? Skyler Williams: Kind, forgiving. Strong, hard working. Always there, no matter what. you know, coach. many times I still remember he was always our coach in sports. and I don't know if that's just because other dads were like, I don't want to deal with them, those kids, or if it but it was I always wanted my dad. Like if their other dads coach, I'm like, Dad, why are you not coaching? Come on, like get in here and coach us. And I think that was part of it, is just he was always wanting to be involved in our lives. There was never a moment where I didn't feel like he was pushing us away. And so I think as a father, he was the perfect father for me, because he he taught us through example, he teased us relentlessly, which I actually appreciate that he teased us, still do. Mike: Still do Skyler Williams: You know, we Seth Stoker: Good. Skyler Williams: come from a very large sarcasm family. so I I I look at those things and it's it's taught me. Again, resilience. And and I think that's where living in Michigan, as hard as that would have been, I think that was what brought us together as a family the the most. And where I was able to learn everything like a sponge. I've probably forgotten more than I probably did learn. and I've probably learned more than my dad ever realizes that I've learned. And so, you know, it's best father, the ultimate father, that I that I know. Mike: The only father you know, so that makes it easier. Skyler Williams: Well yeah, yeah. Seth Stoker: Ha ha ha Well, Mike, I'm gonna change it up for you a little bit. So you've got you've got the beaut the beauty of hindsight in all of your experience as a father. We you know, we made jokes about you being old. But looking back, it as you talk to new fathers, what would be the advice that you would give to new fathers given everything that you've learned? Mike: The simplest advice to boil it right down, don't take yourself too seriously. And and I think the reason I say that is because I I'm starting to recognize very clearly that I am maybe two generations away, maybe only one, from complete obscurity. They're not gonna know who I was. Nope. Skylar will remember me. Maxie will probably have faint memories. Maybe. Depends on how much longer I'm around. But Maxie's children. won't know me. And so don't take yourself too seriously. Don't get wound up on some of the smaller details. And I've been accused by all of my kids, and Skylar's chief among them, of observing Skyler Williams: Ha ha. Mike: their behavior and the family with a judgmental smirk on my famil on my face. I keep saying, it's not a judgmental smirk. I'm enjoying the moment. That's all I'm doing. Skyler Williams: It's a judge it's a judgmental smirk. Mike: It's not Seth Stoker: It could be a little bit of both. Skyler Williams: Ha ha ha. Seth Stoker: Mm. Mike: No, I I I like it because I'm I'm watching them. They're going through the same things. The discussions they have, it's funny to listen to them because I think we had the same discussions growing up. And I know my parents did have the exact same discussions. I've told Skyler's younger brother the only thing that saved his life a couple of times was he had a cute smile. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure I would Skyler Williams: Ha ha Mike: have killed him. But you know, I hear him having the same kind of conversation with his son. It just makes me smile. And it could be judgmental if you like, but it's makes me smile. Seth Stoker: Skylar, for you, what advice would you give to single fathers out there? Skyler Williams: Relish in the moments with your children. again, it's it's all about the people and the relationships and your family that you have. Nothing else matters. the job, the money, it helps so that you can afford to do things with your children and you can put a roof over their heads. But outside of that, it's the most important thing is family. spend it with your children, find a community. that can help you in that. And I think that's, you know, re I suck up your pride. I think a lot of the times early on I was like, I got this. I'm okay. I don't need help. I've got this. Go away. But it really is suck up your pride. It it does truly take a community to raise a child, especially as a single father. and so, you know, it's that's the probably the biggest thing. Is you can't have any pride in this. Be willing to ask for help when you need help. and and find that community, both from your family, but also where you live and who you're surrounded by. because that also helps significantly from a logistical standpoint, a mental standpoint to have people that you can rely on constantly. You don't have to do it alone. Seth Stoker: Awesome. Any any final words of wisdom for the Dadical podcast audience? Mike: You're assuming that we've already given words of wisdom, so this is a that's it's a pretty big jump. Skyler Williams: Well Seth Stoker: Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Mike: All right. All right. I'll share a quick story because this has become kind of the laughing joke running in the family. We were at a parent teacher conference and this guy that was young, probably first or second grade, third grade. Okay. And it it's that was always a joke because, you know, I had a good friend that showed me that quote before min the beginning of a church meeting and made me laugh. It was very inappropriate, but was funny. And so that became the standing quote. The w the beatings are working, right? We were at parent teacher conference and after the the teacher is telling us, Skylar's a joy to have in class. He's an excellent student, yada, yada, yada. And Skylar pipes up in the parent teacher conference and looks at me and says, See, Dad, the beatings are working. And I thought, Not now. This is not the right place to say that because I'll be arrested. And don't say it now. Seth Stoker: That's great. All right, well continue the beatings. That's the Mike: The beatings will continue. Seth Stoker: yeah, is it that's the quote that I've heard is is the beatings will continue until morale improves. Mike: Yep. Exactly. Seth Stoker: Okay, Skyler, d what were you gonna say? Love it. Well, gentlemen, thank you. Really appreciate you taking the time to to share your words of wisdom with us and have have a little fun and and appreciate you joining the podcast. Mike: Been a pleasure. Thanks, Seth. Seth Stoker: Huge thanks to Mike and Skylar for sharing their story today. What a cool opportunity we have as fathers to be the person our kids can lean on when they navigate life's greatest challenges. The fact that Skylar is a grown man with a family of his own, but still looks to his father for advice and support is a testament to the type of father that Mike is. And Skyler said himself that many of the principles that Mike taught him have helped him to navigate the difficulty of losing his wife way too soon. For young men out there, I hope these conversations inspire you to take on the challenges of fatherhood. As you can see from every conversation, you'll always run into challenges you weren't ready for. We're all just kind of figuring things out as we go. But one of the most important reasons I decided to start this podcast in the first place is so that we can learn from each other. Most of us only know what we saw from our fathers and what we figured out through trial and error along the way. By sharing these stories, my hope is that if you're struggling with a certain challenge in fatherhood, that you can learn from others who have been in very similar situations. There are no perfect dads, but maybe the next generation of fathers can be just a little better. And then they can teach their kids to be a little better and so on. After a while, I think we'll be able to look back and realize we've made the world a better place. Thanks for listening. episodes will continue to drop every Wednesday, and I can't wait for you to meet some of the guests that I have lined up for you. If you have found these conversations to be valuable, please don't forget to subscribe, like, or give us a five-star rating. if you know a dad with a story worth telling, let me know at dadiclepodcast.com. And as always, don't sleepwalk through fatherhood. Be daddical.