Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / Episode 139: Exploring Asajj Ventress' Clone Wars Arc, Part 1, "Nightsisters"

Transcript

Episode 139: Exploring Asajj Ventress' Clone Wars Arc, Part 1, "Nightsisters" · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  It's most things Kenobi, an elegant podcast for a more
• 0:04
  civilized fandom. Hi everyone, welcome to another
• 0:21
  episode of Most Things Kenobi, a podcast about Obi Wan Kenobi and
• 0:25
  all things Star Wars. I'm your host, Lauren.
• 0:29
  And I'm your host Leanne. And this week we are talking
• 0:33
  about some Ventress where you're going to talk about the Clone
• 0:35
  Wars episode called Night Sisters.
• 0:37
  We're going to do the arc, which I believe is 3 episodes.
• 0:40
  And today we are talking about the first one, and I've kind of
• 0:45
  forgotten about this one. I forgot how depressing it is
• 0:50
  it. Is it's really dark.
• 0:53
  It's sad. Adventurous story is sad.
• 0:56
  Yeah, yeah. It lays out how unfortunate
• 1:01
  Ventris's path has been since day one.
• 1:04
  Yeah, like beyond her control. Yeah, just a story of
• 1:10
  abandonment and loss and just not knowing where she fits in in
• 1:15
  this grand scheme of things. And we can all kind of
• 1:20
  sympathize with that a little bit.
• 1:22
  Like I I'm pretty sure if you're human, you felt a little left
• 1:26
  out somewhere or like it didn't fit in somehow.
• 1:31
  And I I feel for her. I feel for her and I feel for
• 1:34
  her in this episode and I feel for all of her night sisters.
• 1:38
  I do too. I think it's interesting the way
• 1:41
  Star Wars will take a character and introduce them to you as a
• 1:44
  villain, and you'll hate them and you'll be afraid of them.
• 1:47
  And then if you stick with it long enough, you'll start to
• 1:50
  sympathize with them or at least feel a little sorry for them or
• 1:54
  understand them a little more. And I find that interesting that
• 2:00
  they can do that because, I mean venturous, especially if you go
• 2:05
  all the way back to the original.
• 2:08
  What was it, 2000, 2003, two? 1006, yeah.
• 2:13
  Like, she's in that and she's very one-dimensional and she's
• 2:18
  just full of anger and trying to kill Anakin basically the whole
• 2:22
  time. Yeah, yes.
• 2:23
  And so the fact that they've really developed her.
• 2:27
  Yeah, you're right. Because I can think of at least
• 2:29
  three, quote UN quote villains in Star Wars that I ended up
• 2:34
  really enjoying and sympathizing with Kylo Ren is like the number
• 2:38
  one slash Ben Solo. And Savage, I feel sorry for
• 2:43
  him. He does terrible things.
• 2:45
  But again, like literally it was Ventress Mall and Savage.
• 2:51
  They were just manipulated or taken away from their families.
• 2:57
  Like in doing research about this I learned more about Mall
• 3:00
  which was really sad. Yeah, he's been.
• 3:05
  He's been handed over and tossed around and left behind and
• 3:09
  double. Double, what is it?
• 3:11
  Double crossed. Yeah, yeah, one mother tells.
• 3:15
  And's at the middle of all of it.
• 3:17
  Yeah, she kind of is. Yep.
• 3:19
  She is. Yep.
• 3:20
  So that's why I I like her, 'cause she's interesting, but I
• 3:23
  also kind of feel like I don't know how to describe it.
• 3:27
  It's it's like I don't trust her, but also I kind of think I
• 3:30
  don't like her. I'm not sure because we don't
• 3:33
  have any real truth from her. She just, I don't know.
• 3:39
  I feel like whenever she's talking, I'm not sure if you can
• 3:41
  trust a word she says, basically.
• 3:43
  Well, she has two distinct faces in this episode because she
• 3:48
  welcomes Ventris back wholeheartedly and then
• 3:52
  basically pieces out at the end. Right?
• 3:55
  Like she just is like I'm out and and Ventris is lead,
• 3:58
  literally pleading with her. Don't leave me.
• 4:01
  Yeah. It's so sad.
• 4:04
  It's so sad. Well, I guess to start off the
• 4:09
  very beginning of the episode, Dooku is in his palace on
• 4:16
  Serrano, I think. And then Sidious appears and
• 4:21
  says, you know your apprentice is awfully strong and I think
• 4:27
  it's time for you to kill her. It's time for her to go.
• 4:31
  She's got to go. Again, which fucks.
• 4:33
  Sidious again. Yeah, God.
• 4:37
  But Dooku surprises me because he kind of pushes back, which he
• 4:41
  doesn't normally do, and he says she's she's quite important to
• 4:45
  me. And that makes Sidious even more
• 4:49
  like prove your loyalty and kill her right now.
• 4:53
  I I can't stand that. Yeah.
• 4:56
  I I just it does happen to Dooku in Tales of the Jedi.
• 5:02
  I know. So it's just can you not see
• 5:07
  this pattern? I they don't really have a
• 5:10
  choice. They're so manipulated, so
• 5:12
  manipulated. Yeah.
• 5:15
  All of them by the linchpin. The keystone, which is Darth
• 5:21
  Sidious. It's really, really terrible.
• 5:26
  And it's what was Dooku thinking, what's going to
• 5:28
  happen? I mean, we have a whole episode
• 5:30
  on the Sith Code and the, you know, it could only be two
• 5:34
  basically. And like the whole thing is if
• 5:37
  you're the master, your apprentice is kind of always
• 5:41
  trying to overthrow you. And it's this power struggle,
• 5:44
  non-stop that's so exhausting. It really is, but it keeps them
• 5:49
  busy. You know these evil people that
• 5:52
  they just stay busy doing evil things, being evil people.
• 5:57
  I just the the the amount of trauma is like worse at the
• 6:03
  bottom from these three. Like they're Sidious
• 6:07
  manipulating Dooku, manipulating Ventress.
• 6:11
  Ventress is the one who suffers the most out of all of them.
• 6:17
  And the it's if you think about, like, why did Dooku turn to
• 6:21
  Sidious, it was because all these things started piling up,
• 6:25
  you know. And he, he just couldn't stand
• 6:28
  the hypocrisy anymore of the Jedi.
• 6:30
  The Ventress, she just kept having, like the rug pulled out
• 6:35
  from under her. She was, yeah, we see later when
• 6:39
  she goes back to death and mirror in this episode, she has
• 6:41
  like a vision of her past. So we see she was given away as
• 6:45
  a slave, taken from her mother by mother Talzin and given away
• 6:49
  as a slave. And then that slave owner dies
• 6:54
  and Ventures is discovered by a Jedi master who I can't remember
• 6:58
  his name anymore. I know, I We've talked about
• 7:01
  him, though, and I can't remember.
• 7:02
  We did. I think we did an episode about
• 7:04
  ventures where we've kind of dug a little deeper into all this.
• 7:07
  But no. Offense to the dead Jedi.
• 7:09
  Yes, yes, sorry. Yeah.
• 7:14
  But she's on a path and they're stranded.
• 7:17
  I forgot they got stranded on this planet together.
• 7:19
  And so he starts to teach her. He sees she has the force, and
• 7:22
  then he dies. And in her rage, she killed all
• 7:26
  the pirates and bad people that killed her Master, and then goes
• 7:30
  to Dooku seeking something like she just needs guidance, she
• 7:35
  needs something to fill the hole in her heart, and Dooku just
• 7:38
  takes advantage of that. How nice.
• 7:42
  I mean, honestly, it's just off. I mean, do we know the exact
• 7:48
  moment she went to Dooku? Because I can't.
• 7:50
  I can't quite remember. If we I don't know if it's shown
• 7:54
  in. It's just implied, right?
• 7:56
  It's like they show. Her.
• 7:58
  They show her kneeling in front of Dooku and Clone Wars, and
• 8:01
  then I don't know if there's a moment in the original like 2D
• 8:05
  Clone Wars, but maybe it's in a comic somewhere.
• 8:09
  But I've never read it or seen it myself personally.
• 8:13
  OK, because I would like to know how that that conversation took
• 8:16
  place. And how did she find him?
• 8:19
  Yeah. Or did he find her?
• 8:21
  Who knows? I don't know.
• 8:24
  I I don't know. But can we just talk a little
• 8:26
  bit about Duke's Palace? Because I fucking love it.
• 8:29
  Yes, please. And can we also talk about his
• 8:32
  pajamas? Yes, I'm sorry to bring it up so
• 8:37
  soon in the episode discussion here, but I was really admiring
• 8:42
  when I was watching Back the Silk, You know, Hugh Hefner.
• 8:48
  Yeah, it's like a smoking jacket.
• 8:51
  Yeah, it's like, it's very sophisticated and how he sleeps
• 8:54
  is like a corpse. No.
• 8:57
  Can we also just point out that no one in Star Wars sleeps under
• 9:00
  a blanket except nobody Amidala? Yes, she was the only smart one,
• 9:06
  but the fact that he just lays there like that, it's just like
• 9:11
  no, you couldn't have had him on his side or something more human
• 9:15
  like. Less even sleeping.
• 9:17
  He's rigid as a board, so. Yeah, yeah, I guess I would like
• 9:23
  to know that conversation as well.
• 9:24
  If they're all sitting around, like, how should we illustrate
• 9:27
  him on this bed? You know what?
• 9:28
  Like a board, Like a corpse, Like a resting patient?
• 9:33
  I don't know. It was.
• 9:34
  It was funny. I make myself laugh when I think
• 9:37
  about characters like that who are so proper and uptight.
• 9:39
  It's like, what's it like when he's getting ready for bed?
• 9:42
  Yes, yes, he has to put beard oil in that beard.
• 9:47
  That's my guess. I bet he, like, places his
• 9:49
  slippers like just perfectly, like, right next to the bed.
• 9:53
  Yes, perfectly. Anyway, I I I saw that and I
• 9:57
  was. I like pause for a minute, just
• 9:59
  to just to admire the pajamas. And I was like, I don't think
• 10:02
  we've ever talked about Dooku's pajamas.
• 10:04
  We haven't. I guarantee you they're silk.
• 10:08
  Oh. Like, yeah, probably.
• 10:09
  Pure silk, or whatever the version of silk is in the in the
• 10:13
  Star Wars. Galaxy Yeah.
• 10:15
  Him and Pad may shop at the same store now that I think about it,
• 10:18
  because her blue nightgown that's like gorgeous and.
• 10:21
  Comfortably pearls. Yeah, that's not functional.
• 10:24
  You can't sleep in that. Pearls would hurt.
• 10:26
  It would. It would be so uncomfortable.
• 10:30
  Especially on your shoulders, where there's like no fat at all
• 10:32
  anyway. Rolling right onto the bone.
• 10:36
  Yes, they shop at the same. Pajama Shop.
• 10:41
  Yeah, instead of Victoria's Secret, it's Dooku Secret.
• 10:48
  No, thanks. Sorry.
• 10:52
  God, I've always thought that the they showed the pals kind of
• 10:57
  from far away and like the big tall oblong thing.
• 11:01
  Yeah, whatever. I always thought it looked like
• 11:03
  Eve from Wally. Oh, I thought it looked like the
• 11:08
  Gherkin in London, which also looks like, Listen, I haven't
• 11:14
  seen, I can't watch Wally. I can't, yeah, I can't even look
• 11:18
  at him without feeling like with an urge to cry.
• 11:21
  But I know who you're talking about.
• 11:23
  The white kick The white. Hovering thing, right?
• 11:25
  Yeah, The little robot lady. Yes.
• 11:28
  And I think it's Eve. Unless it's Eva, but I thought
• 11:30
  it was EVE. But side no.
• 11:34
  This does tie into Star Wars. Wally is voiced by Ben Burt.
• 11:39
  Oh, it's probably like how he makes the R2D2 sound.
• 11:43
  Sure. I don't think it's his voice.
• 11:44
  Interesting. Yeah, I thought that was.
• 11:47
  I was like, what? I didn't know that.
• 11:50
  That's interesting. So it does tie in, it relates.
• 11:54
  It does. OK, so Ventress gets a death
• 11:58
  threat on Sidious is ready for her to die.
• 12:01
  She's fighting Anakin and Obi Wan in a.
• 12:05
  Which I love. Like a space battle.
• 12:06
  It's so reminiscent of Revenge of the Sith during that it's so
• 12:11
  fun. I wish we had more between
• 12:14
  Anakin and Ventress, because allegedly Ventress is who gave
• 12:18
  him that scar. Yeah, that's I guess they kind
• 12:21
  of imply it in the 2000, I can't remember 2003, 2006, my brain is
• 12:27
  failing me right now. But the the original Microsoft,
• 12:30
  yeah. Yes.
• 12:32
  Yeah, there's a legendary lightsaber battle between them
• 12:35
  and that. That's pretty cool, but.
• 12:37
  I yeah, I wish there was more. I do too, because I love the
• 12:42
  line where Obi wins. Like Ventress.
• 12:43
  You're not looking well, and Anakin's like she never does.
• 12:46
  Yeah, that it's true, though. I mean, I shouldn't say that she
• 12:51
  she always looks a certain way leading up to when she kind of
• 12:55
  loosens up a little bit. Yeah.
• 12:58
  And she grows her hair out and stuff.
• 12:59
  So yeah, you know when we get to like Dark Disciple Time, right?
• 13:03
  Finish Clone Wars time and all that.
• 13:05
  So cool. I love that look of hers with
• 13:08
  the like undercut, basically. She had that before.
• 13:11
  It was cool. She did, Yeah.
• 13:12
  The undercut side, the side buzz and all that.
• 13:15
  Like, yes, kudos to her. There's one of my favorite Obi
• 13:19
  Wan moments too in this episode. It's so short, but it's after he
• 13:24
  crashed, lands into the hangar and he can't get the canopy off
• 13:27
  of his star fighter and it catches on fire and he pops it
• 13:33
  open and R2 just sprays him in the face with the fire
• 13:37
  extinguisher and he's like. Tried to help.
• 13:39
  He did. And Obi wan's like that.
• 13:41
  That's enough. Thank you.
• 13:43
  Yeah, he's ready to go right there with all the things that
• 13:46
  he sprays. I know I love R2.
• 13:49
  So much, so funny. But she so she's like very badly
• 13:56
  injured and still fights Obi Wan and Anakin and kind of kicks
• 14:00
  their ass a bit. Yeah, she's she's a formidable
• 14:03
  opponent. Yeah, and she's so angry By this
• 14:06
  time, I think she already knows Juke is not coming to help her.
• 14:09
  She asks him to come save her, which I thought was even a
• 14:11
  little unusual. So she must have been like, very
• 14:15
  hurt. Yeah.
• 14:17
  And he tells her, no, you're going to die.
• 14:20
  And the look in her face is just absolutely heartbreaking.
• 14:24
  Yeah, the fact they can, they can do it with animation, that's
• 14:27
  that's really something. Yeah.
• 14:31
  God, I know. I know it hurts.
• 14:36
  Well, there's the She's basically forced choking them to
• 14:40
  death, like she's gonna kill them.
• 14:42
  She's so angry. And then I think the ship starts
• 14:47
  to explode. So they all like drop it and run
• 14:50
  their separate ways, but. Yes.
• 14:53
  She she kind of escapes in her damaged ship and gets found by
• 14:58
  junkers who take her onto their ship, which has a Tuscan Raider
• 15:04
  on the tail Vin by the way. Oh, nice pickup.
• 15:08
  Which I thought was kind of cool, but when she wakes up she
• 15:11
  kills them all and steals them. Yeah, I mean, you got to do what
• 15:15
  you got to do. When you wake up and you're
• 15:17
  somewhere you can't remember how you got there, you're like, you
• 15:19
  know, I'll just kill everybody. That's her thing though.
• 15:22
  That's her go to. Yeah, clean slate.
• 15:24
  Now you can just start what you need to do.
• 15:27
  I mean, she's literally killed a clone and kissed him.
• 15:30
  Yeah. Like, yeah.
• 15:33
  She's ruthless when she needs to be.
• 15:35
  She really is. She was a cute baby, though.
• 15:39
  Oh my God. I know.
• 15:40
  A little little tiny bald baby. I know babies are usually bald,
• 15:43
  but like. Most.
• 15:44
  Some are some. My sister had a full head of
• 15:46
  hair. Which did she or yeah.
• 15:48
  I was bald, though. I was pretty bald.
• 15:50
  I had. I had no eyebrows, which I've
• 15:52
  made-up for in my time. Yep, Yep.
• 15:56
  Anyway, side tangent, but she's a cute baby.
• 15:59
  I feel bad because all of this led to her anger.
• 16:01
  That's why I'm thinking of it. You know she's.
• 16:03
  So angry and defensive all the time.
• 16:06
  Or at least offensive, maybe. No, she's defensive.
• 16:11
  She's both man, like she's just ready for a fight, always.
• 16:15
  Yeah, maybe the kids. That's a better way of putting
• 16:18
  it. But she also knows that she can
• 16:19
  handle it if she starts a fight. That's true.
• 16:23
  So. That's true.
• 16:24
  I don't know. She's really good now that you
• 16:28
  think about it. She is, and I feel like from
• 16:30
  here forward she's even better because she was she.
• 16:35
  Doesn't have the tethers. Yes.
• 16:37
  Yeah. And.
• 16:38
  And like, at a certain point, she decides the rules she's
• 16:41
  living by, and that gives her, I think she's calmer when she
• 16:47
  deals with people, and that's why she's more deadly, 'cause
• 16:51
  she's not so, like, blacked by her emotions.
• 16:54
  It's a really interesting development that she goes
• 16:58
  through. It kind of goes back to her Jedi
• 17:01
  side, her Jedi training. It's almost like she reverts
• 17:03
  back out of the emotional. Yeah.
• 17:08
  I don't know that the emotional tornado that she's constantly in
• 17:11
  and then kind of exits that and she's calmer and more in control
• 17:15
  and more powerful as a result. Yeah, and that's I'd like to do
• 17:19
  an episode sometime about Dark Jedi, 'cause I think she is one,
• 17:24
  'cause. We we talked about the grey
• 17:25
  Jedi, which is one thing, but then there are Dark Jedi and
• 17:28
  it's like they're not Sith necessarily, and they're not
• 17:32
  Jedi, so they're and but they're not Grey Jedi either.
• 17:34
  They are like their own thing. Right.
• 17:36
  Yeah, it's a Balin is now considered a Dark Jedi, right?
• 17:39
  Or they're they're considering him.
• 17:41
  I think so, yeah. I think so, Yeah.
• 17:43
  Yeah. I I think they're very
• 17:45
  interesting. I do too.
• 17:47
  They they they're a whole different, Yeah, we'll have to
• 17:49
  do an episode. They're a total.
• 17:51
  They're in a class of their own. Yeah.
• 17:54
  I would be friends with one. They could be interesting.
• 17:58
  I I really like Balin. Yeah, me too.
• 18:01
  But you'd have to watch your back.
• 18:03
  You what? Because if you no longer are
• 18:05
  part of their plan, you could be expendable.
• 18:08
  Bye, bye. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:10
  It's very interesting. So she goes to death and mirror.
• 18:15
  And I think this is the first time we see it in Clone Wars.
• 18:18
  I think it might have been referenced.
• 18:20
  I think it was referenced in a book about Princess Leia, like
• 18:24
  the original Princess Leia and Han romantic legends novel I
• 18:29
  think is where it was first mentioned, but I.
• 18:32
  Never read that book. I didn't eat.
• 18:33
  Worship. Yeah, I think you're talking
• 18:35
  about. I get that mixed up with the the
• 18:37
  new one, which I is that the Princess in the scoundrel, the
• 18:40
  one that Beth Revis wrote. I get it mixed up with the old
• 18:43
  one, whatever that was. But so it's the first time we
• 18:47
  see it and it's super. Super cool.
• 18:52
  It is. It really is.
• 18:54
  And it remember the Halloween, the spooky episode where I was
• 18:58
  talking about how they had decorations at one of the theme
• 19:01
  parks and they're like sacks. Yes.
• 19:03
  That were hanging, but it was like spider egg sacks.
• 19:06
  But that's literally what like, these Night Sisters come out of.
• 19:09
  Yeah, and it's how they bury their deads.
• 19:11
  Basic It's crazy. It's so insane.
• 19:15
  That is. I mean, that planet is visually
• 19:20
  awesome because there's nothing like it with the mist and the
• 19:24
  red and the dark and the you know, all this stuff and those
• 19:27
  weird trees and and you know Mother Talzin on her own and her
• 19:33
  palace and like her powers. It's the first time we get Witch
• 19:37
  in Star Wars. I know.
• 19:39
  It's so cool. Yeah.
• 19:42
  I I, I have a bit of a gripe about it, honestly, because
• 19:47
  they're evil witches and like, if you know anything about the
• 19:51
  history of like witch. Hunting.
• 19:52
  You're right, It's. Sad because.
• 19:55
  It is. That's Women who were burned and
• 19:58
  strangled to death weren't actually witches, and they
• 20:00
  weren't evil. They were just regular people.
• 20:02
  But we're just perpetuating the idea of evil witches.
• 20:05
  But it is so cool. I don't think.
• 20:10
  Are they really evil? Not to each other.
• 20:12
  I mean, if you read about it in Wikipedia, yeah, they're
• 20:16
  considered. That's too.
• 20:18
  Bad. Because I yeah, I guess, I I
• 20:21
  guess so. Yeah, they're they're dark
• 20:22
  sided, but they have a family. They have a a familial unit.
• 20:26
  They bond to get. And when Ventris loses him,
• 20:31
  yeah, there goes another hole in her life.
• 20:34
  I know. Blown wide open, you know.
• 20:36
  It's so sad, but there's some cool stuff I I noticed which I
• 20:41
  never had noticed before. Or or at least it didn't tell
• 20:44
  Register before. So yeah, when she's walking into
• 20:48
  the temple, after mother tells and recognizes her, I guess
• 20:51
  actually she's just walking up to it.
• 20:53
  That's when we we first see it. The temple is made-up of Cary
• 21:00
  Addeds, which are statues of women who hold they are like a
• 21:07
  an alternative to a pillar. And it was used a lot in like
• 21:10
  Greek architecture. And it's the women who they they
• 21:16
  might have their hands up in this one.
• 21:18
  I think they have their hands up, but sometimes the building
• 21:20
  rests right on the top of their head.
• 21:23
  And I thought that was an interesting choice because
• 21:26
  caryatids are very specific references, but they're used now
• 21:31
  like they're actually used on the Museum of Science and
• 21:33
  Industry here in Chicago. Nice.
• 21:36
  And they there's no, like, real definition and there's no, like,
• 21:45
  what's the word? I'm looking for consensus on
• 21:49
  exactly what they are. But they might be a reference to
• 21:54
  Korea. I'm not sure if I'm saying that
• 21:56
  right. But it's a, it was like a group
• 21:59
  of women that they were attacked, their village was
• 22:03
  attacked, and these women stayed loyal and loyal to, like their
• 22:08
  home village or whatever. And so the victors who came in
• 22:11
  and destroyed made them walk out of the city carrying all of
• 22:16
  their possessions and like wearing their fine jewels and
• 22:20
  everything. And so it's like they became
• 22:23
  this symbol of like holding up something.
• 22:28
  And so it was, it was very interesting.
• 22:30
  There's no, like, absolute certainty on that reference, but
• 22:33
  you can see it all throughout Greek history.
• 22:36
  They start being used. I didn't know this, and this is
• 22:39
  fascinating and it's it seems like a purposeful choice.
• 22:43
  It does, right? Because, yeah, it's this, this
• 22:46
  tribe of women, they stand alone.
• 22:48
  They have this symbol of kind of being outcast at the same time
• 22:53
  because they were conquered. People that, you know, this is
• 22:57
  representative of. And I think in this one they
• 23:00
  don't look like Greek, they don't look Greek, but they are
• 23:04
  definitely a reference to the cure added.
• 23:07
  And I think often they're represented with like their
• 23:09
  right leg out to hold their weight and they have like
• 23:13
  they're very specifically wrapped in like a a toga type
• 23:16
  dress and you see the the fabric and that is visible in Star Wars
• 23:22
  if you look closely in the Clone Wars so.
• 23:24
  How interesting, I I had no idea.
• 23:27
  Yeah, I I'd never seen it before.
• 23:30
  I I always kind of looked right past it and the usually the
• 23:33
  Carriet is like a bunch of pillars and they're often on the
• 23:36
  corners. But this in in Clone Wars there
• 23:38
  are like layers of them going back into the temple, so it's
• 23:42
  very. Kind of wonder if it's wonder if
• 23:44
  it's a reference to like Past Night Sisters.
• 23:48
  It. Could that hold up the current?
• 23:50
  I'm trying to think I need to look this up.
• 23:52
  You know what though? Something I had forgotten is
• 23:54
  that that that theory of them being the Korea, it's kind of
• 23:59
  been disproven because the timeline doesn't work.
• 24:03
  Yeah, I forgot about that. So there's like.
• 24:04
  Theory though. Well, and it's still, it's still
• 24:07
  possible, but they were saying that it was something that
• 24:09
  Vitruvia said, and they said that it doesn't match the dates
• 24:12
  that he was saying. But they also said that they
• 24:15
  could be represented representing young girls who
• 24:20
  danced for the goddess at her annual festival in Sparta for
• 24:24
  Artemis. Oh, OK, OK.
• 24:26
  So still the way, Yeah. There's just some interesting
• 24:31
  stuff that goes on with death, Amir like, Mother tells.
• 24:35
  And I know we've talked about this a little bit, she there's a
• 24:39
  theory that she might be the mother from Mortis.
• 24:42
  Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:44
  Yeah, the missing mother. And so I was comparing.
• 24:47
  I put side by side pictures of Mother Talzin with the sun.
• 24:52
  Oh, oh, it's. Very interesting.
• 24:56
  Is it? Oh, I have to look this up too.
• 24:58
  They're kind of almost like opposites, and they have tattoos
• 25:02
  in similar places, but they're not the same shape by any means.
• 25:07
  But she does have this like tall, elongated head like the
• 25:10
  father. Like the Father, so.
• 25:14
  I don't know. I thought it was interesting And
• 25:16
  like her robes, mother Talzin's robes are kind of similar to the
• 25:22
  daughter's robes. So it's almost like a mix.
• 25:27
  But I don't know. This is just it's not close
• 25:30
  enough for me to be like, Oh yeah, that's definitely the
• 25:32
  case. Sure, yeah.
• 25:33
  But I mean, it's kind of the same thing with Corky.
• 25:38
  Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's things there,
• 25:40
  but we don't have any definition of whether or not you know what
• 25:44
  I mean right? Though now that I see if I
• 25:47
  compare the two that is might be on to something.
• 25:53
  I still can't get over the fact that the sun has cloven feet.
• 25:57
  That is, that is horrifying. It's.
• 25:59
  Really spooky. I hate that most of all.
• 26:05
  I really, really do. Yeah, I mean, it's like a very
• 26:08
  deliberate choice, but it Spooks me, honestly.
• 26:14
  Well, can we talk some color theory?
• 26:18
  Absolutely. I love color theories.
• 26:20
  You bring all this to the table, so I'm gonna let you just talk.
• 26:25
  So in cinematography, because obviously Death Mirror is very
• 26:29
  red, and red can be anger, passion, desire, all of that
• 26:36
  stuff, but it can also represent, and this is something
• 26:40
  I love because we talked about this a bit in the Empire Strikes
• 26:43
  Back theme or the Empire Strikes Back cave scene episode that we
• 26:48
  did. Yeah, it could be blood and not
• 26:52
  like gory blood but like life like womb.
• 26:57
  Oh, and Mother Talzin breathes life into people.
• 27:02
  Exactly. Putting it together.
• 27:07
  So like blood is the building block of life, right?
• 27:10
  So it's like the whole planet and it is even described on
• 27:14
  Wikipedia as bathed in blood, red sunlight from the sun, Domi
• 27:20
  or something like that. So.
• 27:23
  That's cool. That's wild.
• 27:25
  Yeah, like, I thought that was a really.
• 27:27
  I don't know if that's what they were thinking, obviously, but I
• 27:30
  personally get that vibe more than the anger and the passion
• 27:36
  and rage. I get more and not like love
• 27:40
  either. I get more of like blood is the
• 27:42
  building block of life and blood is.
• 27:45
  I don't know, it's tied to the Force, maybe somehow.
• 27:49
  So I don't know. But then they bring Ventris in
• 27:53
  and they lay her on the table and then they start to heal her
• 27:56
  with the water of life they call it.
• 27:59
  And that is super green, which is funny because water is not a
• 28:03
  color at all. Water's clear, but green can be
• 28:09
  sickness and envy, but it's also the color of nature and healing
• 28:15
  and rebirth, which is what she's going to right in that moment.
• 28:20
  Yeah, and and Maul too. Yes, when it's his turn.
• 28:24
  Yes, exactly. Crazy.
• 28:27
  So and of course, like color is not inherent.
• 28:30
  The meaning of color is an absolute, it's it's definitely
• 28:33
  subjective to culture and it's subjective to the film makers.
• 28:36
  It can mean whatever you want it to mean.
• 28:37
  You just have to use it consistently.
• 28:39
  So this is just my quick look at it, but.
• 28:44
  I approve. It makes sense to me.
• 28:47
  It does. It does make sense I think
• 28:49
  because it and they're, I think green and red are actually is it
• 28:55
  called complimentary when they're opposite each other on
• 28:58
  the color wheel. So it's interesting that they're
• 29:00
  using those two colors together. It's very deliberate I think and
• 29:06
  all of the like energy, the spooky energy that they have,
• 29:10
  it's all green, which is all like the water of life.
• 29:13
  So I thought that was kind of interesting.
• 29:15
  So you have blood and water kind of represented there at the same
• 29:18
  place. I just thought I was really,
• 29:20
  really cool. I don't.
• 29:23
  Know I mean blood and water that those are the those are the
• 29:26
  components of life. Yeah.
• 29:29
  Like you can't have blood without water, right?
• 29:31
  And you can't function as a human without either.
• 29:33
  So interesting. Very interesting.
• 29:37
  It makes me think about like Luke Saber and Vader Saber.
• 29:41
  Yeah, right. And return to the Jedi.
• 29:43
  So like literally life. He is fighting against death.
• 29:48
  Or like Luke's clinging to the force and and Vader is like a
• 29:54
  dead Jedi. Technically, until he isn't, but
• 29:57
  then you know. Yeah.
• 30:00
  It it just works in Star Wars. It works.
• 30:03
  I love that. Thanks for explaining all of
• 30:06
  that. I love when you bring the film
• 30:08
  shit to the table. It's my favorite part.
• 30:12
  I love doing it. It's really fun, but I didn't do
• 30:15
  much cinematography looking. I was really just kind of bore
• 30:17
  captured by the colors. And here I am, distracted by
• 30:21
  pajamas. So I mean, no.
• 30:22
  I was too. I wrote down the funny pajamas.
• 30:26
  I actually wrote it down. It was definitely something that
• 30:28
  stuck out to me. Good.
• 30:30
  Good. I did look of kind of the roots
• 30:35
  too of the word death, Amir cause.
• 30:37
  Oh, OK, yeah. Yeah.
• 30:38
  Oh, I love word stuff. Yeah, I've never really.
• 30:42
  I thought about it before, so I I, I know mere is like a root,
• 30:46
  like a a Latin root. So I looked that up and mere
• 30:48
  means to wonder. So it's kind of interesting.
• 30:52
  It's also a German word or pronoun for like the self, like
• 30:58
  me. So I don't know what they're,
• 31:01
  what they were going for, whether it was German or Latin.
• 31:04
  But the word daf actually is kind of cool.
• 31:08
  There is like an actual like word.
• 31:12
  That is, it's an attribute of things that results from the
• 31:16
  light they reflect. So it's basically like, right?
• 31:22
  I was like, yes, really cool. So how interesting if you put it
• 31:29
  all together, right? And like the fact that it's it's
• 31:33
  not just the Night Sisters planet, There's other Force
• 31:36
  wielders and other clans and stuff that live on death, Amir,
• 31:39
  but it's this whole idea of like, it's kind of a reflection
• 31:44
  of power and energy and also like the self.
• 31:48
  Yes. Yeah, it's so.
• 31:51
  Cool. But then there's also, like a
• 31:53
  Hebrew, like a Bible reference to death, which I think they
• 31:58
  might pronounce off. I I don't know if it's hard for
• 32:01
  me to say it, but it's it's a decree or a law or regulation,
• 32:05
  an edict, something like that. So I wasn't sure that that was
• 32:08
  part of it, but it might be. You never know.
• 32:10
  Oh, I like the other one better. Fits better.
• 32:16
  Anyone who pays attention to Lord of the Rings.
• 32:18
  There's a lot of names with mirror at the end.
• 32:20
  Yeah. And I was just thinking of that
• 32:22
  too. So.
• 32:23
  So it's even if it's if it's if it's wonder or if it's me like.
• 32:28
  Either way, I think that works really well for Lord of the
• 32:32
  Rings and Star Wars. Yeah, for sure.
• 32:34
  Yeah. I was wondering like what is the
• 32:35
  time that I but if it's Latin then then Tolkien was able to
• 32:40
  reference it easily. Yeah, and like Latin in
• 32:46
  Tolkien's writing makes sense. There are German references in
• 32:51
  Star Wars. Like Vader obviously is right
• 32:54
  father so and who knows? I know that the the Night
• 32:58
  Sisters were kind of invented or at least fleshed out by George
• 33:02
  Lucas's daughter. She was writing for Clone Wars
• 33:06
  at this time, so she kind of developed Ventris's character
• 33:10
  more and did the whole. I think she's a like a a witchy
• 33:16
  person. I'm not sure 100%, but I got
• 33:18
  that vibe from her when I saw her interview and so she wanted
• 33:21
  to like bring that into Star Wars and bring witches into Star
• 33:25
  Wars specifically. So I thought it was kind of fun.
• 33:28
  She must be very happy that the witch aspect has shown up now in
• 33:34
  live action. Yes, I know.
• 33:36
  The highest compliment right to to keep it going outside of an
• 33:40
  animation. Yeah, and it's really cool.
• 33:43
  It is I I love the aspect. I I do caution the evilness
• 33:49
  factor because of all of the problems.
• 33:52
  Yeah. The connotation between women
• 33:54
  and witches and the burning and the whole thing, the whole
• 33:56
  history. Yeah, because witch is a term
• 33:59
  used. It's a derogatory term often
• 34:03
  times. So I I yeah.
• 34:06
  But witches have made a a a comeback as far as Harry Potter.
• 34:12
  And if you look anywhere on YouTube, Instagram, there's a
• 34:16
  thing called Witch Core. Oh yeah.
• 34:20
  Remember us talking about cats like Cottage Core and then Norm
• 34:24
  Core, which is George Lucas as himself?
• 34:27
  Yeah, there's there's witch core.
• 34:29
  And I looked at it because I was like, what is this?
• 34:31
  And it's actually quite nice. It's pretty, yeah.
• 34:34
  It is. It's it's individuals using
• 34:36
  herbs and harvesting and making things and being quite, you
• 34:40
  know, in tune with nature. That's the kind of shit I like
• 34:42
  when it comes to witches. Yeah, it's usually like
• 34:47
  witchcraft. Now is the more of like a a
• 34:50
  nature based practice. And I don't know.
• 34:56
  I wouldn't say any of the witches I know are casting evil
• 35:00
  spells for raising people from the dead, but.
• 35:02
  You know what? We don't need to There's an evil
• 35:05
  on its own. So evil doesn't need the help of
• 35:09
  some individual boiling chamomile.
• 35:12
  You know what I mean? Like.
• 35:15
  They just want to get to bed at night like the rest of us.
• 35:17
  That's. True.
• 35:19
  I wonder if mother talls and made any kind of sleeping pill
• 35:25
  or sleep aid. She just put her finger on your
• 35:28
  forehead and you just passed the fuck?
• 35:31
  Out. Can I hire her please?
• 35:33
  You know who else we've seen do that is Mace Windu, basically.
• 35:37
  Oh, for fuck's sake. Yeah, it's true.
• 35:40
  And I think they actually have an episode together in season 6,
• 35:44
  and it, like Mace Windu and Mother Talzin together, makes a
• 35:47
  weird kind of sense to me. I don't know why.
• 35:49
  It does though. It does though.
• 35:51
  It's kind of like Ventress and Obi Wan when they're together.
• 35:53
  There's a weird chemistry. Yes, yeah.
• 35:56
  Like you don't want to consider it, but it's there, so you have
• 35:58
  to consider it. And there's like, that's not
• 36:00
  bad. Yeah, it's not bad.
• 36:02
  It's actually pretty entertaining.
• 36:04
  Yeah, same with Windu and and Talzin.
• 36:06
  Yeah, Oh my God. Though I don't even want to
• 36:09
  Windu. I know.
• 36:11
  Anyway, yeah, I I will say that one of the coolest aspects of
• 36:16
  this episode for me is the fact that we get to see an animated
• 36:22
  take on partially visible people, like the silhouettes
• 36:25
  when they infiltrate Dooku's palace.
• 36:28
  Yes, we haven't even talked about that.
• 36:29
  You're right. I I love that.
• 36:32
  How it looks, how they make it look.
• 36:33
  It's kind of like a smoke. Yeah, a smoky blurry.
• 36:37
  That must have been so difficult to to develop.
• 36:41
  Yes, that's my question. How do you do that?
• 36:45
  Because it's almost like you're smudging.
• 36:47
  It's like they smudged it out. So I would love to know the
• 36:49
  technicality behind creating that.
• 36:51
  Like you said, it's got to be difficult, but how fun.
• 36:54
  Well, they they said fabric was even difficult, which is why
• 36:57
  they stayed away from putting people in cloaks a lot.
• 37:00
  And this is like an undulating face, like the edges moved when
• 37:06
  they got like a close up on ventures.
• 37:08
  Like it wasn't solid, It was constantly fluttering.
• 37:12
  Must have cost a fortune to render that it was crazy.
• 37:16
  I I really do love all of that and like Dooku being kind of
• 37:21
  drowsy and he I never realized this but he utters he utters the
• 37:27
  same phrase that what's his name uses in rebels with I don't need
• 37:31
  my eyes to see who oh Kanan jars yeah he didn't need his eyes to
• 37:36
  see either and and like first of all Dooku gets super pissed off
• 37:39
  at himself and I I totally sympathize.
• 37:42
  He's like he's struggling to try and see and then he suddenly
• 37:44
  remembers wait a second I'm better than that.
• 37:47
  I don't need to use my eyes to see.
• 37:49
  He makes it like this declaration, you know, I'm
• 37:53
  better than this basically, is what he's saying.
• 37:56
  But I did like the connection between So he lost his sight for
• 38:00
  the most part and he still did evil, but Kane and Jaris had no
• 38:05
  eyesight, but he used it for good.
• 38:07
  Yeah. So anyway.
• 38:09
  That's a great parallel. I haven't watched it.
• 38:12
  I haven't seen this arc since, like, running through.
• 38:15
  And then I saw Rebels and everything that came after.
• 38:18
  I haven't rewatched this one. And so I was like, oh, I know
• 38:21
  what, I get it. I make that connection.
• 38:24
  Yeah, it's so. I don't know it's but I love the
• 38:27
  whole fight scene. I know they used the little dirt
• 38:30
  and stab him while he's. Sleeping.
• 38:32
  And here's my question. Why didn't you just poison him
• 38:35
  with a dart, period? Me too.
• 38:37
  I was wondering this. It's like, I guess, 'cause she
• 38:39
  wants the satisfaction of killing himself.
• 38:42
  Well, that's always the way. You're gonna like, give them an
• 38:45
  extra moment to fight back and die.
• 38:48
  Correct, correct. You're gonna fail.
• 38:50
  Yeah, it's like you got to have the head.
• 38:51
  You got to bring the head back in order to prove that you
• 38:53
  killed him or something. But yeah, if they have a dart
• 38:56
  that that slows them down #1 make it stronger.
• 39:00
  If you still need to bring proof and have that moment double up,
• 39:05
  you know, paralyze him or something.
• 39:07
  I don't know. Anyway, I was just like, come
• 39:09
  on, you could have done this, but ranchers was right there.
• 39:13
  I know. She was so close that she forgot
• 39:15
  about the forced lightning. Oh yeah, And that was like some
• 39:18
  of the most intense forced lightning he's ever thrown at
• 39:21
  anybody. That was angry.
• 39:23
  That was very angry. Self-defense.
• 39:26
  Yeah. Oh no you don't.
• 39:28
  Forced lightning. He looks scary as fuck what he
• 39:31
  did. He did.
• 39:34
  There was that small hesitation right before he did it, where
• 39:38
  you thought Ventus was going to. I mean, obviously we don't know
• 39:41
  Duke who meets his end, but. Yeah, they're like bringing.
• 39:44
  He's like bringing him in a little bit closer.
• 39:46
  Yeah, just a little bit closer and and.
• 39:49
  Then I I love after he like, throws them out the window and
• 39:52
  they're falling down the Cliff and Ventures catches his sisters
• 39:55
  and they fall to the bottom and they're like, he's more powerful
• 39:58
  than we thought. And Ventures is like, I warned
• 40:01
  you was like what? Just.
• 40:05
  That's why it was up to her to finish the job even though she
• 40:08
  couldn't. Yeah, I like that.
• 40:09
  She's like just playing the blame game like I told you, but
• 40:13
  you. Didn't listen.
• 40:16
  Sisters. True sisters, right?
• 40:22
  I love this episode. I love this whole arc.
• 40:24
  It's sad. It's amazing.
• 40:27
  It's deep. And we get depth to a character
• 40:31
  that, like you said in the beginning of this episode, just
• 40:33
  kind of introduced as a villain. And then we get layers.
• 40:36
  You know, I love me some layers. I love the layers.
• 40:39
  It'll be interesting. I I want to talk a little bit
• 40:42
  about Mother Tellson and Maul and why she hates the Sith so
• 40:45
  much, but I might save it for the next episode.
• 40:48
  Because isn't that where they go and find Savage?
• 40:52
  Yes. Yeah.
• 40:53
  So I'll save it for the next one.
• 40:57
  Well, good there. There's your cliffhanger, folks.
• 40:59
  Come on back next week. So our question for you this
• 41:09
  week, what were your thoughts the first time you saw Dathmir
• 41:13
  and All the Night Sisters? Did you love it?
• 41:16
  Did it creep you out? Yeah.
• 41:19
  Were you afraid? Tell us your thoughts and we
• 41:25
  will read them next week. Yes.
• 41:29
  And next week, we kind of already said we're continuing
• 41:32
  this arc with the second episode in this Ventress centric art and
• 41:37
  it's cut, it's titled Monster. So we're going to get into all
• 41:41
  of that, which this, this arc is kind of heavy.
• 41:45
  There's a lot to, there's a lot to dive into.
• 41:47
  So join us next week, we'll continue the discussion.
• 41:50
  We hope you join us. Last week we were talking about
• 41:55
  music. We were chatting about our
• 41:57
  favorite pieces from Star Wars and we actually get a lot of
• 42:01
  feedback. But my favorite one is from my
• 42:04
  dad. Yes.
• 42:06
  I'm going to read you what my dad sent me.
• 42:08
  I asked him to comment because he's a musician and he loves
• 42:11
  Star Wars and he loves John Williams.
• 42:13
  So tell me your thoughts, Dad. I already know what this is, so
• 42:18
  I'm just going to absorb it all because he is precious.
• 42:21
  This is so. This is so nice.
• 42:22
  Yeah, so, he said. There are so many wonderful
• 42:26
  musical themes from Star Wars, it's hard to choose only one
• 42:29
  favorite. That said, the Star Wars main
• 42:31
  theme with the opening crawl is top of my list.
• 42:34
  I saw the film at its opening release in 1977 and remember
• 42:38
  sitting in the dark theater waiting for the movie to begin
• 42:41
  and then bang. Yes.
• 42:44
  That first note of the opening fanfare and the flash of the the
• 42:48
  text Star Wars penetrated the dark, quiet theater.
• 42:51
  I had never seen anything like that before, sitting there
• 42:55
  reading the story of the Rebellion and the Empire.
• 42:57
  The music served to transport you to another time and place
• 43:01
  where you get dropped into a Starship battle in outer space.
• 43:04
  Wow. How's that for setting the
• 43:06
  stage? I love that so much.
• 43:09
  That's something I kind of take for granted, that the first time
• 43:12
  people ever saw it, they've never heard that music before.
• 43:16
  No, And it really does come in with a bang.
• 43:18
  I mean, it is every instrument all at once.
• 43:22
  Like, it's epic. It sets the stage for it's a
• 43:26
  galactic epic story. Yeah, and like.
• 43:29
  You're from someone who saw it like and it's original.
• 43:33
  I just. I think it's so cool.
• 43:35
  It's so cool there, he goes on to say.
• 43:38
  I suggest the opening theme is similar to an overture at the
• 43:42
  opera. It provides short excerpts of
• 43:44
  the themes used during the rest of the movie.
• 43:47
  John Williams said it was the last piece of the soundtrack he
• 43:49
  did, and it makes sense that he would incorporate what he had
• 43:52
  already composed to give the audience a musical glimpse of
• 43:55
  what's coming up in the next two hours.
• 43:58
  All that's really needed is that first note of the opening
• 44:01
  fanfare, and people around the world could tell you what the
• 44:03
  music is. If that's not iconic, I don't
• 44:06
  know what is. I like it because it sets the
• 44:08
  tone for the rest of the movie, and as a former trumpet player,
• 44:12
  I love the brass flourishes. Yes.
• 44:17
  Well, we got feedback from our friend Ben.
• 44:19
  He sent me something from Rebels.
• 44:22
  I think it was like Sabine's theme, something like that.
• 44:25
  And then it was across the stars, got mentioned quite a
• 44:29
  lot. That is a favorite of a lot of
• 44:31
  people, so. Yes.
• 44:33
  As we said, Star Wars music is just freaking iconic, so.
• 44:36
  It's and it There isn't a bad piece there really at all.
• 44:42
  Thank you to everyone who submitted and thank you to
• 44:45
  Lauren's dad for sharing that with us.
• 44:47
  Thank you, Dad. Love you.
• 44:52
  Thank you so much for joining us here on The Most Things Kenobi
• 44:54
  Podcast. We appreciate every single one
• 44:56
  of our patrons and are grateful for your support.
• 44:59
  We appreciate every single one of our patrons and are grateful
• 45:02
  for your support. If you'd like to support the
• 45:04
  podcast and become a patron as well, head over to The Most
• 45:06
  Things Kenobi Patreon. As always, you can follow us on
• 45:09
  Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube, and don't forget to
• 45:12
  subscribe on your favorite podcast player.
• 45:15
  If you enjoy our podcast, feel free to rate US on Spotify and
• 45:18
  Apple. And if you need just one place
• 45:20
  to find all of these, head over to Most Things kenobi.com.
• 45:24
  So until next time, Myspace Twin, may the Force be with you.
• 45:29
  Always.