Latest / SisterSmart Leadership / 21: 8 Conversation Skills for Work

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21: 8 Conversation Skills for Work · SisterSmart Leadership

• 0:00
  So many conversations don't go anywhere or worse.
• 0:02
  They create a negative situation.
• 0:05
  Sometimes the entire team is stuck because of interpersonal issues.
• 0:08
  So how can you create teams that are fast, innovative, and interdependent?
• 0:13
  In this episode, you'll learn how to do just that because I'm going
• 0:17
  to share with you five conversation killers that you'll want to stay away
• 0:20
  from and the sister smart framework that's the key to building teams with
• 0:23
  true collaboration and co creation.
• 0:26
  I'm Jill Avey, a career success coach, and this is Sister Smart Leadership, the
• 0:31
  show that explores how women can rise from director to vice president and beyond
• 0:36
  by fully leaning into their feminine energy as their biggest advantage.
• 0:40
  Let's get you one step closer to the recognition and promotion you deserve.
• 0:45
  In my corporate career, communication was my specialty.
• 0:48
  I led company wide cross functional teams that were very complex.
• 0:52
  We would have people from every department on the team and we had
• 0:55
  to move everything forward with all those different viewpoints.
• 0:58
  So think about it.
• 0:59
  We would have somebody from design who was worried about the user interface
• 1:03
  and there would be the sales team who was focused on gaining customers.
• 1:08
  And then there was customer service who needed to keep them happy for the long
• 1:11
  run engineering, who was designing the next great products, operations who
• 1:15
  had to deliver the goods, and R and D who was looking far into the future.
• 1:20
  And then we had legal who had to keep us in compliance about everything, and then
• 1:24
  finance who was watching our budgets.
• 1:26
  Every one of these people had a different lens on that they were looking through.
• 1:30
  And what that meant was that everybody had different priorities
• 1:33
  and they have different issues that they wanted to cover.
• 1:35
  So we all had to come together and move this project from one place to a new
• 1:38
  initiative that included presenting to senior leadership what our results were.
• 1:43
  So we had to get a good outcome and the problem is, is that
• 1:47
  I didn't manage any of them.
• 1:49
  These were all my peers or leaders senior to me on these projects
• 1:52
  and this work was always on top of their already busy schedules.
• 1:56
  So with no power over anyone, it made all those meetings more complex.
• 2:00
  And I had to use all of my skillset and communication to do that.
• 2:04
  So thankfully I was a master communicator and I was chosen to
• 2:07
  lead these really amazing teams.
• 2:10
  I've been a student of communication for 30 years, so I can relate to my clients
• 2:14
  when they talk about their struggles and perhaps you can relate to them too.
• 2:18
  Maybe you need effective communication skills when interpersonal
• 2:21
  relationships are getting in the way of getting that work done.
• 2:24
  Maybe you're struggling to help your team understand other team members
• 2:28
  frame a reference so they can find the most effective way to work together.
• 2:32
  Maybe people on your teams are really challenged with having open and
• 2:36
  honest conversations about conflict.
• 2:38
  If you've ever struggled to get your team to stop talking something to
• 2:40
  death when decisions need to be made because you're in that vicious cycle
• 2:44
  where you want to drive your projects forward, but you're stuck because the
• 2:47
  work doesn't seem to be getting done.
• 2:49
  Maybe you need to attract and retain younger team members who want to be part
• 2:52
  of the process, not just told what to do.
• 2:54
  And if you've ever struggled to have difficult conversations, like getting
• 2:58
  C level management to understand what your capacity really looks like,
• 3:02
  maybe you want new opportunities to get folks to see you in a new light,
• 3:05
  to take a bet on your potential, not just your proven track record.
• 3:09
  These are some of the struggles that get solved through conversations.
• 3:12
  So let's jump in to see how we can hold our conversations back.
• 3:16
  And I will give you the secrets to great conversations that can
• 3:19
  solve all these problems and more.
• 3:21
  So first let's talk about the five conversation killers.
• 3:24
  Conversation killer number one.
• 3:26
  This is when we make other people feel threatened and most likely you
• 3:29
  don't even know you're doing it.
• 3:31
  Most of us are not trying to make people feel threatened, but there are things that
• 3:34
  we can do that will trigger somebody's threat response, which you've probably
• 3:38
  heard of as the fight or flight response.
• 3:41
  So this can happen in subtle ways in meetings.
• 3:43
  When it's happening to you, you might feel the fight response that can come
• 3:46
  out as arguing or getting louder, or maybe digging in your heels some more.
• 3:51
  The flight mode comes out as impatience or a sense of urgency for the meeting
• 3:56
  to be over now, it could even feel like literally wanting to leave the room.
• 4:00
  And then there's a freeze response when your mind goes blank.
• 4:03
  So a senior leader asks you a question and you feel put on the spot and you
• 4:07
  can't think of anything, even though this is your area of expertise.
• 4:10
  Appease is the next response.
• 4:12
  That's more of a withdrawal from the conversation.
• 4:15
  And it often comes with crossed arms and a little leaning back, like, sure, whatever
• 4:19
  you want, just tell me how you want it.
• 4:21
  Finally, there's a tend and befriend response.
• 4:23
  That's more of a peacemaking effort under stress.
• 4:25
  So these responses are really obvious when you're out for a hike and you
• 4:28
  see a big bear in the woods and you want to run, but they're a lot more
• 4:31
  subtle when we're in an office place.
• 4:34
  So, how do we cause these responses?
• 4:36
  Here are a couple of ways that we can do this.
• 4:39
  One is by excluding people.
• 4:40
  This happens when we're not careful to bring everybody into the conversation
• 4:44
  by making sure that those who need to be in the meeting are in the meeting.
• 4:48
  And another way that we can trigger a threat response is by
• 4:50
  criticizing or shutting people down.
• 4:53
  This can happen inadvertently when we want to move a meeting on.
• 4:56
  Maybe you've been on a topic for too long and you need to move on, but you
• 5:00
  need to be careful about how you do that.
• 5:03
  Instead, we can work on including and appreciating.
• 5:06
  It helps people open up when you can focus on finding the things that you
• 5:11
  can appreciate about what they've said before you move the conversation on.
• 5:15
  Part of building trust is helping people feel safe and not having that
• 5:19
  fight or flight response be triggered.
• 5:21
  Conversation killer number 2 is falling into the tell, sell, yell trap.
• 5:27
  It starts when you're trying to convince or influence and then maybe you don't feel
• 5:30
  like what you've said was really heard or that it landed right or maybe you think
• 5:34
  that people weren't paying attention to you, so you might sell it a little more
• 5:38
  and maybe you get a little stronger about what you say, or a little more forcefully
• 5:43
  and maybe you say it with more conviction.
• 5:45
  And then you might feel like you still weren't heard.
• 5:48
  And then you might ratchet it up again to a little bit more of a yelling about it.
• 5:52
  I think most everyone can relate to this.
• 5:53
  You get more and more passionate about something, or maybe you're getting
• 5:56
  frustrated or angry about it even.
• 5:59
  What we need to do here is instead of ratcheting up these messages and hoping
• 6:02
  of persuading someone, we need to stop and go back to the drawing board
• 6:06
  and think about what else we can do.
• 6:09
  So when your message isn't landing, you can ask yourself: where can
• 6:12
  I stop here and build trust?
• 6:14
  How can I build connections with the audience, with the
• 6:16
  team members in this meeting?
• 6:18
  And how can we co create the solution instead so that I can get buy in here?
• 6:23
  Maybe it's really not about whether your opinion or your idea is good.
• 6:27
  Maybe what needs to happen is that group needs to come together and come up with
• 6:31
  the one thing that's right for this team on this day versus the thing that you
• 6:35
  thought through so carefully and that you think is the right thing to do.
• 6:38
  When the team comes up with a different solution or even the same solution,
• 6:42
  the fact that the group came up with it rather than you telling it and
• 6:45
  selling them on it will create a lot of buy in and having that buy in can
• 6:49
  create a lot more speed down the road.
• 6:51
  Our 3rd communication killer is when listeners are not feeling heard.
• 6:57
  What happens when people don't feel heard is that it can seem like you don't care
• 7:01
  about what they think or that you don't value them as a team member or that you
• 7:05
  think you know everything already and that's a really bad one because what
• 7:08
  happens is when you're in groups with senior leaders, they might think that
• 7:12
  you're not a good team player or that you don't work well with others or that
• 7:15
  you're not good leadership material.
• 7:17
  And why this can be devastating to your career is because when
• 7:21
  people don't think you're listening to them, they stop speaking up.
• 7:24
  And when people stop speaking up, they will watch you making missteps and
• 7:28
  they won't say anything to help you.
• 7:30
  And if they get resentful enough, they'll actually celebrate you when you fall
• 7:34
  or they'll contribute to your fall.
• 7:36
  So these are all things that we really want to stay away from, of course,
• 7:39
  but most importantly, and probably most often what happens is the people
• 7:43
  around you have great ideas and they won't say anything or they'll see a
• 7:47
  problem and they won't say anything.
• 7:49
  And so these are things that we really want to avoid because
• 7:51
  we don't know what's missing.
• 7:53
  We don't know when somebody has not spoken up when they could have.
• 7:57
  And that leads us to communication killer number four, which
• 8:00
  is not understanding trust.
• 8:02
  So trust is how we're going to get around some of these things
• 8:04
  that we've been talking about.
• 8:06
  Unskilled managers waste time on trust-degrading things like using fear
• 8:11
  as a motivator, holding information as security, saying yes to everything
• 8:15
  because they feel obligated, jumping to conclusions without talking to the
• 8:19
  other party, looking for someone to blame or hold accountable for their
• 8:23
  mistakes, figuring out how to outwit their opponents and other departments,
• 8:27
  continually using worst case scenario thinking to keep themselves safe.
• 8:31
  And they also keep up on all the gossip to stay informed.
• 8:35
  Instead, professionals focus on one thing only and that's building trust, that's it.
• 8:40
  Building trust is that important.
• 8:42
  And we can use Angela Arendt as an example.
• 8:45
  So Judith Glaser, the creator of conversational intelligence, worked
• 8:48
  with her for a long time, mostly at Burberry and Angela Arons made trust
• 8:53
  her number one focus as a leader and it worked amazingly well for her.
• 8:57
  She was a CEO of Burberry for six years in that time of massive company growth.
• 9:02
  She was the highest paid CEO in all of the UK.
• 9:05
  And then she went on to Apple where she was a senior VP of retail of online
• 9:09
  stores, and she was the highest paid leader at Apple making more than Tim Cook.
• 9:13
  So that's pretty amazing for somebody who's focused on solely on building trust.
• 9:18
  And I think her success really shows that this works.
• 9:22
  And that leads us to our communication killer, number five, which is not
• 9:26
  rebuilding trust when it's been broken.
• 9:28
  You need to repair trust for people to feel psychologically safe.
• 9:32
  This often doesn't happen in the workplace and it's worth doing because
• 9:35
  there are a lot of benefits for people to feel safe in their jobs.
• 9:39
  They become more resilient and they can take failures and bounce back more easily.
• 9:43
  They will speak freely when they see potential or problems.
• 9:46
  They will open up their creativity and they will have better problem solving.
• 9:50
  They'll have stronger interpersonal connections and
• 9:53
  their confidence will be higher.
• 9:55
  They'll feel empowered to make a difference, which is a key
• 9:57
  indicator of job satisfaction.
• 10:00
  And when we create interdependent teams that really work, team
• 10:03
  members can work through their own problems and they don't shy away
• 10:06
  from those difficult conversations by letting things go and simmer.
• 10:09
  They actually welcome healthy conflict and talk about the hard stuff and they feel
• 10:14
  invested in the success of their team.
• 10:16
  So what is the secret to avoiding all of these five conversation killers?
• 10:21
  In the sister smart leadership program, we use a framework with these three key
• 10:24
  results that create drastically better performance for you and your team.
• 10:29
  So, result number one is upregulating oxytocin in your conversations.
• 10:34
  So there's a hormone you may have heard of called cortisol.
• 10:37
  And when that fight or flight mode that we talked about earlier is triggered,
• 10:41
  cortisol gets released in your body.
• 10:43
  That prepares us to fight, flee, freeze, or appease, or tend to befriend,
• 10:47
  and it's preparing us for action.
• 10:49
  And so what that does is it moves blood and energy to the muscles, and our heart
• 10:53
  will start pumping harder, and we'll start breathing faster, and then it also shuts
• 10:57
  it down everything that's not needed.
• 10:59
  So like our digestive system, and more importantly, it shuts down our
• 11:03
  prefrontal cortex, and so that's that part of the brain right here behind
• 11:07
  our forehead and this is where all of our higher functioning happens.
• 11:11
  So when we're in fight or flight mode, it shuts down that
• 11:13
  part because we don't need it.
• 11:16
  We don't need to take time to stop and make decisions and bond with
• 11:19
  other people and have empathy.
• 11:21
  This is a mode where we need to just be reacting and acting.
• 11:26
  So think about that for a moment.
• 11:28
  Hypervigilant about protecting yourself, and you don't want to bond or share, and
• 11:32
  you're not using the best part of your brain, the part where all your creativity
• 11:35
  and good problem solving comes from.
• 11:37
  We are instead working more from the primitive part of our brain
• 11:40
  that's just about taking actions.
• 11:42
  Does that sound like people that you want to have in your meetings?
• 11:46
  No, right?
• 11:47
  And it doesn't sound like the person you want to be in your
• 11:49
  meetings either, does it?
• 11:51
  So what we need to do is we need to promote a situation where we
• 11:54
  have oxytocin flowing instead.
• 11:57
  So this is the counterpart to cortisol and it's another hormone that's
• 12:00
  associated with nurturing and bonding.
• 12:02
  And so this is a hormone that you can feel and it's that warm fuzzy
• 12:06
  feeling that you would experience when you give yourself a hug.
• 12:10
  Like relaxing.
• 12:11
  So if you're not driving, give yourself a hug right now.
• 12:14
  And you can feel yourself warm up and become a little softer.
• 12:18
  And that oxytocin is opening people up.
• 12:21
  It's reducing anxiety.
• 12:23
  It's helping us feel more social competence and connection.
• 12:26
  And what this does is it allows us to use that most powerful part of our brain.
• 12:31
  Oxytocin is going to help us use this amazing part of our
• 12:34
  brain, the prefrontal cortex.
• 12:36
  And what we need to do is really promote this environment where oxytocin can flow.
• 12:41
  In the Sister Smart program, we have exercises that will help you to create
• 12:45
  this environment in any situation.
• 12:47
  So whether it's a one on one meeting or a complex cross functional team with
• 12:51
  senior leadership, you can learn how to keep yourself out of fight or flight
• 12:55
  mode and identify when others are feeling that as well and what to do about it.
• 13:00
  So our result number two is to have what's called level three conversations.
• 13:06
  So level three conversations are focused on discovering what we don't know.
• 13:10
  And we call these co creating conversations.
• 13:13
  We also call them we centric conversations.
• 13:16
  It's not an I centric conversation.
• 13:18
  It's about the group.
• 13:19
  It's about listening to connect with other people and hearing what
• 13:22
  they need, what their viewpoints are, where they're coming from.
• 13:26
  And it's a high trust environment.
• 13:27
  It's a place where healthy conflict can occur.
• 13:30
  It's a place where oxytocin is flowing.
• 13:32
  Level three conversations are amazing for engagement and getting
• 13:36
  projects to run more smoothly.
• 13:38
  The more we can bring our conversations into a level three place and the better
• 13:42
  the information that we're going to get from our teams and from ourselves as well.
• 13:46
  So you might be thinking that this sounds great for meetings that you run,
• 13:49
  but that you don't have control over a portion of the meetings that you attend.
• 13:52
  Well, there are some meetings that you have no control over
• 13:55
  and we have to accept that.
• 13:57
  There's also a lot that you can do to encourage level three
• 14:00
  conversations in any discussion.
• 14:03
  It all starts with the kinds of questions that you ask.
• 14:06
  In our program, we call it asking questions for which you have no answers.
• 14:10
  And these are the questions that open up a conversation and get people
• 14:13
  thinking about that bigger picture and what shared success would look like.
• 14:18
  Result number three is creating psychological safety.
• 14:21
  So that is the number one thing that makes teams perform better and it makes meetings
• 14:26
  go better because we can do our best work when we're feeling psychologically safe.
• 14:30
  So what is psychological safety?
• 14:32
  This is where people can feel that they can speak up and offer their
• 14:35
  ideas, ask questions without the fear of being punished or embarrassed
• 14:41
  because nobody comes to work wanting to look ignorant or stupid.
• 14:45
  And yet so often our environments create this feeling.
• 14:49
  So this is a topic I get really excited about because it can have so much impact
• 14:53
  on team performance and it makes a huge difference in the culture of your team.
• 14:57
  In fact, episode 23 is going to be devoted entirely to this subject, so I
• 15:02
  don't want to go too much into it here.
• 15:04
  Instead, I'm going to encourage you to keep tuning in so that you can learn all
• 15:07
  about the magic of psychological safety.
• 15:10
  So think about how much conversation affects our work lives for a moment.
• 15:14
  I mean, it touches everything we do.
• 15:16
  I like to end every episode with these three shifts that you can make
• 15:20
  today to improve your conversations.
• 15:22
  So first, watch for the conversation killers in your next conversation.
• 15:27
  As a reminder, they were making people feel threatened, falling
• 15:30
  into the tell sale yell trap, not making your listeners feel heard.
• 15:35
  Not understanding trust and not rebuilding trust when it's been broken.
• 15:39
  And the second shift that you can make today is to notice when you
• 15:42
  feel safe in a conversation versus when you don't notice in your body,
• 15:47
  the difference between the two.
• 15:49
  And the third shift that you can make is to notice when you're triggered into
• 15:53
  fight or flight mode in a conversation.
• 15:55
  So notice how that feels in your body and also notice which
• 15:58
  modality you go to most often.
• 16:00
  Do you go to appease or fight or tend to befriend?
• 16:04
  Which one do you go to?
• 16:06
  So let me know which shift you'll start with.
• 16:08
  If you're watching this on YouTube, leave us a comment and let us know
• 16:11
  which one you're going to try first.
• 16:13
  As I mentioned, we learn conversational intelligence in the fourth module of
• 16:17
  our sister smart leadership program.
• 16:20
  And if you'd like to hear more about the sisters in leadership process and how
• 16:24
  it might work for you, you can download my private podcast on the seven step
• 16:28
  passport to promotion at the sister smart.
• 16:31
  com website.
• 16:32
  The link is in the show notes here.
• 16:34
  And if you want to dive deeper into women's leadership and
• 16:36
  how to move up in your career.
• 16:38
  Subscribe either on YouTube or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
• 16:42
  I'm on a mission to help more women get into leadership and stay there.
• 16:45
  And if that's aligned with you, I'd love to have you be part of this community
• 16:49
  and tune into more episodes on sister smart leadership that will support you in
• 16:54
  becoming the leader that you want to be.
• 16:56
  If you're ready to fully lean into your feminine leadership and get promoted
• 17:00
  from director to vice president and beyond, hit that subscribe button so
• 17:04
  you'll get all the episodes to come and check out the recommended video here
• 17:08
  to see how women are rising up without playing by the old rules that built these
• 17:12
  male dominated industries and systems.
• 17:17
  So many conversations don't go anywhere or worse.
• 17:20
  They create a negative situation.
• 17:22
  Sometimes the entire team is stuck because of interpersonal issues.
• 17:26
  So how can you create teams that are fast, innovative, and interdependent?
• 17:30
  In this episode, you'll learn how to do just that because I'm going
• 17:34
  to share with you five conversation killers that you'll want to stay away
• 17:37
  from and the sister smart framework that's the key to building teams with
• 17:41
  true collaboration and co creation.
• 17:43
  Not just handoffs that are thrown over the wall.
• 17:46
  Instead, we can create collaborations where people open up with their
• 17:49
  ideas and concerns, and they're motivated to reach their goals.
• 17:53
  In my corporate career, communication was my specialty.
• 17:57
  I led company wide cross functional teams that were very complex.
• 18:01
  They would have people from every department on the team, and we
• 18:04
  had to move everything forward.
• 18:06
  With all those different viewpoints.
• 18:08
  So think about it.
• 18:09
  We would have someone from design who was worried about the user interface.
• 18:14
  And then there would be sales whose focus was on gaining the customers.
• 18:17
  Then there was customer service who needed to keep the customer happy for the long
• 18:21
  run and engineering who was designing all the next products operations who
• 18:26
  had to deliver the goods R and D who was looking far into the future, legal,
• 18:31
  who had to keep us in a compliance and finance who was watching our budgets.
• 18:35
  So every one of these people had a different lens that
• 18:38
  they were looking through.
• 18:40
  What that meant was everyone had different priorities and they had different
• 18:43
  issues that they wanted to cover.
• 18:45
  Yet we all had to come together to move this project from one place to
• 18:48
  another with this new initiative and it's usually included presenting our
• 18:53
  results to the senior leadership.
• 18:55
  So we had to get a good outcome.
• 18:59
  Let me say that again.
• 19:00
  So we all had to get a good outcome, except I didn't manage any of them.
• 19:05
  These were peers or even senior leaders on these projects.
• 19:09
  So this work was always.
• 19:12
  On top, let me say that again too.
• 19:16
  And this work was always on top of their already busy schedules.
• 19:19
  So with no power over anyone, it made all these meetings more complex.
• 19:24
  I had to use all my skillset and communication to do that.
• 19:28
  Thankfully, I was a master communicator and I got chosen to
• 19:31
  lead some really amazing teams.
• 19:34
  I've been a student of communication for 30 years.
• 19:36
  So I can relate to my clients when they talk about their struggles and
• 19:39
  perhaps you can relate to them, too.
• 19:42
  Maybe you need effective communication skills when personal
• 19:45
  relationships are getting in the way of getting your work done.
• 19:49
  Maybe you're struggling to help your Maybe
• 19:56
  you're struggling to help your team understand Other team members frame
• 20:00
  a reference so that they can find the most effective way to work with one
• 20:02
  another Maybe people on your teams are really challenged with having open and
• 20:07
  honest conversations about conflict If you've ever struggled to get your
• 20:11
  teams to stop talking something to death when decisions need to be made because
• 20:15
  you're in that vicious cycle of where you want to drive your projects forward,
• 20:19
  but you're stuck because the work just doesn't seem to be getting done.
• 20:23
  Maybe you need to attract and retain younger team members who want to be part
• 20:27
  of the process, not just told what to do.
• 20:30
  If you've ever struggled with having difficult conversations,
• 20:33
  like getting C level
• 20:38
  If you've ever struggled to have difficult conversations, like getting
• 20:41
  C level management to understand what your capacity really looks like, maybe
• 20:46
  you want new opportunities to get folks to see you in a new way, in a new role,
• 20:50
  and take a bet on your potential rather than just your proven track record.
• 20:58
  I want to say that one again too.
• 21:06
  Maybe you want new opportunities to get folks to see you in a new role
• 21:10
  and take a bet on your potential, not just your track record.
• 21:16
  Oh, I do say just sorry.
• 21:18
  I got confused there.
• 21:20
  Okay.
• 21:24
  Maybe you want new opportunities.
• 21:27
  No, that's not how I wanted to say it.
• 21:29
  Shoot.
• 21:30
  Okay.
• 21:31
  Maybe you want new opportunities to get folks to see you.
• 21:35
  No, that's not how I want to say that.
• 21:41
  Maybe you want new opportunities to end.
• 21:43
  Sorry.
• 21:48
  Okay.
• 21:50
  There we go.
• 21:51
  Maybe you want new opportunities and to get folks to see you in a new role
• 21:55
  and take a bet on your potential, not just your proven track record.
• 21:59
  These are some of the common struggles that get solved through
• 22:02
  conversation and we learn how to do that in the Sister Smart program.
• 22:06
  So let's jump in first to what I.
• 22:12
  Okay, one more time.
• 22:16
  Let's first jump into what can hold our conversations back, and then
• 22:20
  I'll give you the three secrets to great conversations that can
• 22:22
  solve all these problems and more.
• 22:25
  So first let's talk about the five conversation killers.
• 22:28
  So first, conversation killer number one.
• 22:30
  This is when we make other people feel threatened.
• 22:33
  And most likely you don't even know you're doing it.
• 22:36
  Most of us are not trying to make people feel threatened, but there are things that
• 22:41
  we can do that can trigger somebody else's threat response, which you probably have
• 22:45
  heard of as the fight or flight response.
• 22:47
  And this can happen in subtle ways in meetings.
• 22:50
  When it's happening to you, you might feel the fight or fight response coming
• 22:53
  out as a fight, maybe arguing or getting louder or like digging in your heels.
• 23:00
  The flight mode comes out as like impatience, a sense of urgency
• 23:05
  for the immunity over now, or even literally wanting to leave the room.
• 23:10
  And then there's the freeze response when your mind just goes blank.
• 23:13
  So, a senior leader asks you a question and you feel put on the spot and you
• 23:16
  can't think of anything, even though this is your area of expertise.
• 23:20
  Appease is a withdrawal from the conversation, maybe with a little
• 23:25
  crossed arms, a little leaning back, saying like, sure, whatever you want,
• 23:28
  just tell me what to do and I'll do it.
• 23:31
  And then finally, there's a tend to befriend response.
• 23:33
  That's more of a peacemaking effort under stress.
• 23:37
  So those responses are really obvious when you're out for a hike and you
• 23:41
  see a big bear in the woods and you want to run, but they're more subtle
• 23:44
  when you're in an office place.
• 23:46
  So, how could we actually be causing these responses in others?
• 23:50
  So here's a couple of ways that we can do that.
• 23:52
  So one is by excluding people.
• 23:55
  This happens when we're not careful to bring everybody into the conversation
• 23:58
  by making sure that those who need to be in the meeting are in the
• 24:01
  meeting and that everyone has a voice.
• 24:04
  We can also trigger a threat response by criticizing or shutting people down.
• 24:10
  And this can happen inadvertently when we want to move the meeting on,
• 24:14
  for example, maybe you've been on one topic for too long and you know
• 24:18
  you have to move on, but you need to be careful about how you do that.
• 24:22
  So instead we can work on including and appreciating, and this helps people
• 24:27
  open up for you because you can focus on finding the things that you can appreciate
• 24:32
  about them of what they've said.
• 24:34
  So part of building trust is helping people feel safe and not have that
• 24:38
  fight or flight response be triggered.
• 24:41
  Conversation killer number two is falling into what we call
• 24:44
  the tell, sell, yell trap.
• 24:46
  And this starts when you're trying to convince somebody or influence people.
• 24:51
  And then maybe you don't feel like you said,
• 25:05
  And then maybe you don't feel like what you said was really
• 25:08
  heard or that it landed right.
• 25:10
  Or maybe you think that people weren't paying attention to you.
• 25:13
  And so you might sell it a bit more and then you might get a little
• 25:17
  stronger about it and say it more forcefully or with more conviction.
• 25:21
  And then you might feel like you still weren't heard and you might
• 25:24
  ratchet it up again in a bit of a more of a yelling about it.
• 25:29
  I think almost everyone can relate to this from some point or another.
• 25:32
  Um, you get more and more passionate about something, or maybe you're getting
• 25:36
  more frustrated or even angry about it.
• 25:39
  So what we need to do here instead, instead of ratcheting up these messages
• 25:43
  in hopes of persuading someone, we need to go back to the drawing
• 25:47
  board and stop and think about it.
• 25:50
  When your message isn't landing, you can ask yourself, where
• 25:53
  can I stop and build trust?
• 25:55
  How can I build connections with my audience and the
• 25:58
  team members in the meeting?
• 26:00
  And how can we co create a solution so that I can get buy in here?
• 26:05
  Maybe it's not about whether your opinion or your idea is good.
• 26:08
  Maybe what needs to happen in that group is that the group needs to come together
• 26:12
  and come up with the right one thing that's good for this team on this day
• 26:17
  versus the thing that you thought through and you thought about it really carefully
• 26:22
  and you think it's the right thing to do.
• 26:24
  When the group comes up with a different solution, or even the same solution, the
• 26:28
  fact that the group came up with it rather than you telling it and selling it On
• 26:32
  them is that will create a lot of buy in for everybody and having that buy in can
• 26:37
  create a lot more speed down the road.
• 26:39
  So it's worth it to take the time to do this upfront.
• 26:42
  Our third communication killer is when listeners are not feeling heard.
• 26:48
  Hang on.
• 26:50
  Crosstrap's driving me crazy.
• 26:56
  I'll start from the top on that.
• 27:00
  Our third communication killer is when listeners are not feeling heard.
• 27:05
  This happens when people don't feel heard.
• 27:09
  Sorry, I need to do that again.
• 27:12
  Communication killer number three is when listeners are not feeling heard.
• 27:16
  So what happens when people don't feel heard is that it can seem like
• 27:20
  you don't care about what they think or that you don't value them as a
• 27:24
  team member or that you think you know everything already yourself.
• 27:28
  And that's a really bad one because what happens is that particularly when you're
• 27:32
  in groups with senior leaders, they might think that you're not a good team
• 27:35
  player or maybe that you don't work well with others and that maybe you aren't
• 27:39
  good leadership material in general.
• 27:42
  And then this is why this can be devastating to your career
• 27:45
  because when people don't think that you're listening to them.
• 27:50
  They stop speaking up and when people stop speaking up, they'll
• 27:54
  watch you make missteps and they won't say anything to help you.
• 27:58
  And if they get resentful enough, they'll actually celebrate you when you fall or
• 28:03
  they'll even contribute to your fall.
• 28:05
  So these are things that we really want to stay away from, of course,
• 28:09
  but importantly, and probably more often what happens is that people
• 28:12
  around you will just have great ideas, but they won't say anything.
• 28:17
  Or they'll see a problem and they won't say anything.
• 28:20
  And so these are things that we really want to avoid because we
• 28:23
  don't know when something is missing.
• 28:26
  We don't know when somebody has not spoken up or when they could have.
• 28:42
  Kingston!
• 28:44
  Kingston!
• 28:54
  Hey!
• 28:58
  Thank you Kingston
• 29:06
  Hey, hey, hey Kingston.
• 29:09
  Come here.
• 29:11
  Come here,
• 29:16
  buddy Kingston
• 29:24
  we had to talk about this already.
• 29:29
  Come here.
• 29:34
  We had to talk about this already.
• 29:35
  Didn't we?
• 29:35
  I thought we weren't doing that today
• 29:44
  Can you be quiet now, buddy?
• 29:46
  Hmm?
• 29:46
  Come
• 29:50
  on.
• 29:50
  I've lost my train of thought now.
• 29:52
  Yeah.
• 29:53
  Are you gonna have to sit in the bedroom?
• 29:59
  Maybe I'll go down instead.
• 30:01
  Can you be quiet?
• 30:03
  Yeah, maybe I'll go be quiet.
• 30:06
  Okay, lay down.
• 30:08
  Lay down.
• 30:09
  No, don't pop it.
• 30:18
  The fort is safe.
• 30:23
  His people, his flock is safe.
• 30:35
  And that leads us to communication killer number four, which
• 30:38
  is not understanding trust.
• 30:40
  So trust is how we're going to get around some of these things
• 30:43
  that we've been talking about.
• 30:44
  Unskilled managers waste time on degrading trust things like using fear as a
• 30:50
  motivator, like holding back information.
• 30:54
  Sorry, I gotta say that over again.
• 31:00
  Unskilled managers waste time on trust degrading things like
• 31:04
  using fear as a motivator and holding information as security.
• 31:08
  Saying yes to everything because they feel obligated.
• 31:12
  Jumping to conclusions without talking to the other party.
• 31:16
  Looking for someone to blame or hold accountable for their mistakes.
• 31:20
  Figuring out how to outwit their opponents in other departments.
• 31:24
  continually using worst case scenario thinking to keep themselves safe.
• 31:29
  And they keep up on all the office gossip to stay informed.
• 31:33
  Instead, professionals focus on one thing, and that's building trust.
• 31:37
  And that's it.
• 31:38
  Building trust is that important.
• 31:40
  And we can use Angela Ahrens as an example.
• 31:43
  So Judith Glazer, the creator of conversational intelligence.
• 31:46
  I better say that differently.
• 31:50
  So Judith Glaser, the creator of conversational intelligence, which
• 31:56
  let's see, how do I want to say that we can use Angela Ahrens as an example.
• 32:02
  So the creator of conversational intelligence, which is what we work with
• 32:06
  in the sister smart program, the creator, her name was Judith Glaser, and she
• 32:11
  worked with Angela Ahrens for a long time.
• 32:13
  I don't feel like I need to go into that much detail.
• 32:30
  We can use Angela Ahrens as an example.
• 32:33
  So Judith Glaser, the creator of conversational intelligence, worked
• 32:36
  with her for a long time, and she knew that Angela Aarons made trust
• 32:41
  her number one focus as a leader, and it worked amazingly well for her.
• 32:46
  So she was the CEO of Burberry for six years, and in that time
• 32:49
  had massive company growth.
• 32:51
  She was the highest paid CEO in all of the UK, and then she went to Apple, where
• 32:55
  she was senior VP of retail online stores, and she was the highest paid leader at
• 33:01
  Apple, making even more than Tim Cook.
• 33:03
  So that's pretty amazing results for somebody that's
• 33:05
  focusing on building trust.
• 33:07
  And I think that her Success really shows that this works.
• 33:11
  So this leads us to our conversation killer number five, which is not
• 33:14
  rebuilding trust when it's been broken.
• 33:17
  So you need to repair trust.
• 33:25
  You need to rip, rip.
• 33:29
  You need to repair trust for people to feel psychologically safe.
• 33:33
  And it's worth doing this because there are a lot of benefits to
• 33:36
  people feeling safe in their jobs.
• 33:38
  First, they become more resilient and they can take failures
• 33:41
  and bounce back more easily.
• 33:43
  They'll be able to speak freely when they see potential problems or, um,
• 33:53
  They will speak freely when they see potential or problems.
• 33:57
  It will open up their creativity, and they'll have better problem solving.
• 34:01
  They'll also have stronger interpersonal connections, and
• 34:04
  their confidence will be higher.
• 34:05
  They'll, as well, they'll feel as And they'll feel empowered to
• 34:11
  make a difference, which is a key indicator of job satisfaction.
• 34:15
  So when we create interdependent teams that really work, team members can work
• 34:19
  through their own problems together.
• 34:21
  They don't shy away from difficult conversations by
• 34:24
  letting things go and simmer.
• 34:26
  They actually welcome healthy conflict and talk about the hard stuff and they feel
• 34:30
  invested in the success of their team.
• 34:33
  So what is the secret to avoiding all of these five conversation killers in
• 34:38
  the sister smart leadership program?
• 34:40
  We use a framework with these three key results that create drastically better
• 34:45
  performance for you and your team.
• 34:48
  So result number one is up Reggie.
• 34:52
  So result here, let's just make it obvious.
• 34:58
  So, result number one is upregulating oxytocin in your conversations.
• 35:03
  There is a hormone you may have heard of called cortisol.
• 35:13
  There is a hormone that you may have heard of called cortisol and that fight
• 35:18
  or flight mode that we talked about earlier is triggered when this happens,
• 35:22
  the cortisol gets released in your body.
• 35:24
  So that repair, let me do that all over again.
• 35:38
  Result number one is upregulating oxytocin in your conversations.
• 35:42
  So there's a hard.
• 35:44
  There's a cortisol.
• 35:54
  Result number one is upregulating oxytocin in your conversations.
• 35:58
  So there's a hormone you may have heard of called cortisol.
• 36:02
  And when that fight or flight mode that we talked about earlier is triggered,
• 36:05
  cortisol gets released in your body.
• 36:07
  That prepares us to fight, flee, freeze, or appease, or tend to befriend,
• 36:12
  and it's preparing us for action.
• 36:13
  And so what that does is it moves blood and energy to the muscles, and our heart
• 36:17
  will start pumping harder, and we'll start breathing faster, and then it also shuts
• 36:22
  it down everything that's not needed.
• 36:23
  So like our digestive system, and more importantly, it shuts down our
• 36:28
  prefrontal cortex, and so that's that part of the brain right here.
• 36:31
  Um, behind our forehead and this is where all of our higher functioning happens.
• 36:37
  So when we're in fight or flight mode, it shuts down that
• 36:39
  part because we don't need it.
• 36:42
  We don't need to take time to stop and make decisions and bond with
• 36:45
  other people and have empathy.
• 36:47
  This is a mode where we need to just be reacting and acting.
• 36:52
  So what happens is that we become hyper vigilant about protecting ourselves and we
• 36:56
  don't want to bond or share or we want to.
• 37:00
  Oh, sorry.
• 37:01
  I cut that piece out.
• 37:02
  So think about that for a moment.
• 37:04
  Hypervigilant about protecting yourself, and you don't want to bond or share, and
• 37:09
  you're not using the best part of your brain, the part where all your creativity
• 37:12
  and good problem solving comes from.
• 37:15
  We are instead working more from the primitive part of our brain
• 37:18
  that's just about taking actions.
• 37:20
  Does that sound like people that you want to have in your meetings?
• 37:24
  No, right?
• 37:25
  And it doesn't sound like the person you want to be in your
• 37:27
  meetings either, does it?
• 37:29
  So what we need to do is we need to promote a situation where we
• 37:32
  have oxytocin flowing instead.
• 37:35
  So this is the counterpart to cortisol and it's another hormone that's
• 37:39
  associated with nurturing and bonding.
• 37:41
  And so this is a hormone that you can feel and it's that warm fuzzy
• 37:45
  feeling that you would experience when you give yourself a hug.
• 37:48
  Like relaxing.
• 37:49
  So you can get like, if you're not driving, give yourself a hug right now.
• 37:52
  And you can feel yourself warm up and become a little softer.
• 37:57
  And that oxytocin is opening people up.
• 38:00
  It's reducing anxiety.
• 38:01
  It's helping us feel more social competence and connection.
• 38:05
  And what this does is it allows us to use that most powerful part of our brain.
• 38:09
  Oxytocin is going to help us use this amazing part of our
• 38:13
  brain, the prefrontal cortex.
• 38:15
  And what we need to do is really promote this environment where oxytocin can flow.
• 38:20
  In the Sister Smart program, we have exercises that will help you to create
• 38:24
  this environment in any situation.
• 38:25
  So whether it's a one on one meeting or a complex cross functional team with
• 38:30
  senior leadership, you can learn how to keep yourself out of fight or flight
• 38:34
  mode and identify when others are feeling that as well and what to do about it.
• 38:39
  So our result number two is what's to, uh, to have what's
• 38:43
  called level three conversations.
• 38:46
  So level three conversations are focused on discovering what we don't know.
• 38:50
  And we call these co creating conversations.
• 38:53
  We also call them we centric conversations.
• 38:55
  It's not an I centric conversation.
• 38:57
  It's about the group.
• 38:58
  It's about listening to connect with other people and hearing what
• 39:02
  they need, what their viewpoints are, where they're coming from.
• 39:07
  And it's a high trust environment.
• 39:08
  It's a place where healthy conflict can occur.
• 39:11
  It's a place where oxytocin is flowing.
• 39:13
  Level three conversations are amazing for engagement and getting
• 39:16
  projects to run more smoothly.
• 39:19
  The more we can bring our conversations into a level three place and the better
• 39:23
  the information that we're going to get from our teams and from ourselves as well.
• 39:27
  So you might be thinking that this sounds great for meetings that you run,
• 39:30
  but that you don't have control over a portion of the meetings that you attend.
• 39:43
  Well, there are some meetings that you have no control over
• 39:46
  and we have to accept that.
• 39:48
  There's also a lot that you can do to encourage level three
• 39:51
  conversations in any discussion.
• 39:54
  It all starts with the kinds of questions that you ask.
• 39:57
  In our program, we call it asking questions for which you have no answers.
• 40:01
  And these are the questions that open up a conversation and get people
• 40:04
  thinking about that bigger picture and what shared success would look like.
• 40:09
  Result number three is creating psychological safety.
• 40:12
  So that is the number one thing that makes teams perform better and it makes meetings
• 40:17
  go better because we can do our best work when we're feeling psychologically safe.
• 40:21
  So what is psychological safety?
• 40:23
  This is where people can feel that they can speak up and offer their
• 40:26
  ideas, ask questions without the fear of being, um, punished or embarrassed
• 40:32
  because nobody comes to work wanting to look ignorant or stupid.
• 40:37
  And yet so often our environments create this feeling.
• 40:40
  So this is a topic I get really excited about because it can have so much impact
• 40:45
  on team performance and it makes a huge difference in the culture of your team.
• 40:49
  In fact, episode 23 is going to be devoted entirely to this subject, so I
• 40:54
  don't want to go too much into it here.
• 40:55
  Instead, I'm going to encourage you to keep tuning in so that you can learn all
• 40:59
  about the magic of psychological safety.
• 41:01
  So think about how much conversation affects our work lives for a moment.
• 41:05
  I mean, it touches everything we do.
• 41:08
  I like to end every episode with these three shifts that you can make
• 41:11
  today to improve your conversations.
• 41:14
  So first, watch for the conversation killers in your next conversation.
• 41:19
  As a reminder, they were making people feel threatened, falling
• 41:22
  into the tell sale yell trap, not making your listeners feel heard.
• 41:26
  Not understanding trust and not rebuilding trust when it's been broken.
• 41:31
  And the second shift that you can make today is to notice when you
• 41:34
  feel safe in a conversation versus when you don't notice in your body,
• 41:38
  the difference between the two.
• 41:41
  And the third shift that you can make is to notice when you're triggered into
• 41:44
  fight or flight mode in a conversation.
• 41:46
  So notice how that feels in your body and also notice which
• 41:50
  modality you go to most often.
• 41:52
  Do you go to appease or fight or tend to befriend?
• 41:55
  Which one do you go to?
• 41:58
  So let me know which shift you'll start with.
• 42:00
  If you're watching this on YouTube, leave us a comment and let us know
• 42:03
  which one you're going to try first.
• 42:05
  As I mentioned, we learn conversational intelligence in the fourth module of
• 42:09
  our sister smart leadership program.
• 42:11
  And if you'd like to hear more about the sisters in leadership process and how
• 42:15
  it might work for you, you can download my private podcast on the seven step
• 42:20
  passport to promotion at the sister smart.
• 42:22
  com website.
• 42:23
  The link is in the show notes here.
• 42:25
  And if you want to dive deeper into women's leadership and
• 42:27
  how to move up in your career.
• 42:29
  Subscribe either on YouTube or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
• 42:33
  I'm on a mission to help more women get into leadership and stay there.
• 42:37
  And if that's aligned with you, I'd love to have you be part of this community
• 42:40
  and tune into more episodes on sister smart leadership that will support you in
• 42:45
  becoming the leader that you want to be.