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Turn out the Lights, The Trial is Over · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Hi, guys, Nancy Grays here,
0:11
Speaker 1: thanks for being with us. With me is my long
0:15
Speaker 1: time a friend and colleague, defense attorney Renee Rockwell, who
0:19
Speaker 1: was known as the Queen of Joke. I don't know
0:22
Speaker 1: that I would like that name, Renee, but sadly that
0:25
Speaker 1: is your monikers, the queen of dope. Not that you
0:28
Speaker 1: ever used joke, but you sure represent a lot of
0:30
Speaker 1: dope crimes. Renee. Let me tell you where I am.
0:33
Speaker 1: I'm in not any man, and I am driving at home.
0:40
Speaker 1: It's about a five hour drive from the Colleton County
0:44
Speaker 1: court House where the verdict again Alex Murdog has just
0:50
Speaker 1: been handed down in sentencing of walking two life sentences
0:55
Speaker 1: to run consecutively. Renee, I hate so without parole's sentence,
1:03
Speaker 1: but boom too. You know what. I think he should
1:06
Speaker 1: get out of jail when Maggie and Paul can get
1:10
Speaker 1: out of their coffin. When do you think that will
1:12
Speaker 1: be anytime soon? Well? I have my thoughts about the
1:17
Speaker 1: whole case and whether or not I felt like he
1:19
Speaker 1: did it or not, but that's not a job. The
1:24
Speaker 1: jury's already handed down their verdict and he placed himself
1:27
Speaker 1: at the end of the crime two minutes before the shooting,
1:31
Speaker 1: because his voice was caught on a video. All was
1:34
Speaker 1: making a video of a pet dog to send to
1:38
Speaker 1: a lady that but I want to talk to you
1:39
Speaker 1: about something other than the jury verdict, because the jury's
1:42
Speaker 1: rendered their verdict, that feeling after he finished the trial,
1:49
Speaker 1: because I gotta tell you, the lead lawyer, Frighton Waters
1:54
Speaker 1: lost fifteen pounds during the trial. He was pale, aunt,
2:01
Speaker 1: shadows under his eyes. I mean, it takes a toll, Renee.
2:07
Speaker 1: It does. And Nancy, do you ever recall getting anything
2:10
Speaker 1: else done while you're on trial? Even while you were
2:14
Speaker 1: waiting for the jury, you don't turn your attention to
2:18
Speaker 1: anything else. It's almost like you you're sending energy to
2:22
Speaker 1: the gerars. I couldn't get a thing done. I would
2:25
Speaker 1: let bills go by, everything would pile up. I remember
2:31
Speaker 1: after one trial, Renee leaving the courtroom, going back across
2:36
Speaker 1: the bridge to the courthouse where my office was, and
2:41
Speaker 1: I went in my office. As the whole time I
2:45
Speaker 1: was on trial, the records room had been bringing new
2:49
Speaker 1: cases to my office and putting them on my desk.
2:52
Speaker 1: That huge stack of about I don't know seventy new
2:55
Speaker 1: cases had been had fallen over on my desk like
2:58
Speaker 1: an accordion and had gone down the side of the desk,
3:02
Speaker 1: and I had left a dozen Christy cream donuts in
3:06
Speaker 1: there the morning that I left to go start the trial,
3:09
Speaker 1: which lasted about three weeks. And I mean it looked like,
3:15
Speaker 1: you know, a cyclone had hit my office, because I
3:19
Speaker 1: never went back during the trial. And you did you
3:22
Speaker 1: get anything done even while the jury was out? Could
3:25
Speaker 1: you even move barely from the courtroom or the bench outside? Now,
3:32
Speaker 1: I did you nervous? When I first started drying cases,
3:35
Speaker 1: I tried to actually sit really close to the jury
3:38
Speaker 1: room and see at least I could hear them fighting
3:41
Speaker 1: or you know, voices race. And then one time I
3:46
Speaker 1: heard them arguing, and I got so upset and I said,
3:51
Speaker 1: to the veil of what is happening. I can hear arguments,
3:54
Speaker 1: said their race voice. You said, they're just getting their
3:58
Speaker 1: lunch order. I didn't have to listen. I'm never trying
4:02
Speaker 1: to listen to it. And you know, a defense attorney
4:07
Speaker 1: loves the jury that's arguing with each other, loves that
4:13
Speaker 1: maybe they'll they'll hang Nancy, and I will call you
4:16
Speaker 1: after trial. You would always go in. You love to
4:21
Speaker 1: collect the notes that were left behind, thrown away, the
4:26
Speaker 1: jurard notes. You could tell from those notes what they
4:29
Speaker 1: thought was important. Another thing you taught me, Nancy, was
4:33
Speaker 1: after a trial going to the jurors, the ones that
4:36
Speaker 1: would stay and talk to you. They were just about
4:39
Speaker 1: sick of us by the time the case was over,
4:42
Speaker 1: but you always wanted to talk to a juror about
4:46
Speaker 1: what did you love, what did you hate, what did
4:49
Speaker 1: we miss you on? What was important, what was not important?
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Speaker 1: Help us, help us learn how to how to clean
4:57
Speaker 1: it up, tighten it up. You never know when you're
4:59
Speaker 1: gonn to try the case again, even if it's a
5:02
Speaker 1: bitter pill to swallow. You know, you can hear that
5:07
Speaker 1: and do better the next time. But you know what
5:09
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about right now, Renee, this is a beautiful country.
5:13
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something. Holton County is really pretty.
5:17
Speaker 1: And where we cover the trial I almost said where
5:21
Speaker 1: we trying the case was, um, you know there, the
5:25
Speaker 1: Calton County Courthouse in Walterboro, South Carolina. Renee, It's beautiful.
5:31
Speaker 1: The weather is like you know, have you ever got
5:34
Speaker 1: into a bathtub. It's not hot and it's not cold,
5:36
Speaker 1: it's just perfect. That is the way Walterboro Fields. It's
5:41
Speaker 1: really a nice little town. Did you go by the
5:45
Speaker 1: any any parts of the sites that were mentioned in
5:50
Speaker 1: the in the trial? Did you go by? Because I
5:52
Speaker 1: know you love to do that, you like you know,
5:56
Speaker 1: you're the same, you know. I I into every every
6:01
Speaker 1: location that was mentioned. Everywhere I tried to go look
6:05
Speaker 1: at it, or did go look at it. I tried
6:08
Speaker 1: to get in or did get in. There was some
6:12
Speaker 1: really pretty country. But what it strikes me right now,
6:15
Speaker 1: I'm not a little red light and the whole town.
6:18
Speaker 1: There is a McDonald's and a Sprint gas station on
6:22
Speaker 1: my left, a Baptist church of course was both on
6:27
Speaker 1: my right, and an income tax service one red light.
6:32
Speaker 1: Oh wait, no it's not. It's not a Baptist Church's
6:35
Speaker 1: Church of Christ Beach Island. And that's it. That is it. Oh,
6:43
Speaker 1: there's a welding shot. There are a lot of little
6:47
Speaker 1: kind of out oh in a dollar tree. It's the
6:50
Speaker 1: whole thing, and people from all around the area are
6:56
Speaker 1: typically called for jury duty. But I'm looking at how
7:00
Speaker 1: beautiful it is, Renee and just thinking what an idiot
7:05
Speaker 1: Murdoch is to give up. Is beautiful, wife, is children,
7:15
Speaker 1: they had three homes, and I'm telling you, Moselle, that
7:18
Speaker 1: that country is just beautiful, tall pine trees, just are
7:24
Speaker 1: as I can see, and let's see it says it's
7:28
Speaker 1: eighty one degrees outside. He's never gonna be free driving
7:33
Speaker 1: down the road like I am right now. It's never again, Renee. Well,
7:39
Speaker 1: not with a life without parole, consecutive life without parole,
7:44
Speaker 1: and Nancy, I don't like a without parole sentence, and
7:48
Speaker 1: prosecutors should not like those types of sentences either. Those
7:52
Speaker 1: are the consentences. Well, those are the kind of sentences.
7:56
Speaker 1: He's septent four years old, So life with parole, possibility
8:00
Speaker 1: of parole, he's never getting out likely. But with all parole,
8:05
Speaker 1: an inmate has no reason to follow the rules. An
8:10
Speaker 1: inmate has no reason to walk the line. Renee, Why
8:15
Speaker 1: do you say things like that? I mean, I'm just curious,
8:17
Speaker 1: like this guy is going to follow the rules. He's
8:20
Speaker 1: stolen them at least nine million dollars from his clients,
8:23
Speaker 1: some of them quatch apolegic poling cancer victims that are dying,
8:30
Speaker 1: people that are left with nothing. He stole from them
8:34
Speaker 1: without following the rules. He cheated on his wife, was
8:37
Speaker 1: that following the rules? He killed Paul and Maggie. Without
8:41
Speaker 1: following the rules. He's not going to follow the rule,
8:44
Speaker 1: No way. I don't even know why he said that.
8:47
Speaker 1: I just said that, Nancy, because when you see an
8:51
Speaker 1: inmate that has no reason to behave they tend to
8:56
Speaker 1: get in a lot of trouble. While in Jay and
9:01
Speaker 1: you shall, I don't care one. I'll lay that to
9:04
Speaker 1: the warden. I'm gonna let the wardens do his or
9:08
Speaker 1: her job, and I'm gonna do my job, let the
9:11
Speaker 1: prosecutions do their job. And life without the possibility of
9:14
Speaker 1: parole is really light when you compare it to a
9:19
Speaker 1: possible death penalty sentence he could have gotten in South Carolina.
9:24
Speaker 1: You know what, I was trying to tell you, how
9:26
Speaker 1: beautiful this country is, and here in South Carolina, I've
9:30
Speaker 1: never really been through it very much. And what an
9:33
Speaker 1: idiot Murdoch must have been to give up everything, and
9:37
Speaker 1: that one moment of anger he lost all this And
9:42
Speaker 1: you're talking to me about life without parole, Okay, go ahead.
9:46
Speaker 1: So so, Nancy, I do have my feelings, as I
9:49
Speaker 1: told you, about licenses when there's no possibility of parole,
9:54
Speaker 1: if that's what you want to talk about. But across book,
9:57
Speaker 1: I want to talk about why are people such idiots?
10:01
Speaker 1: Do they not think about anything? That he really think
10:04
Speaker 1: he can get away and he's given up his whole
10:08
Speaker 1: life and there's no more Maggie, there's no more family.
10:12
Speaker 1: It's all over there. You go on. He's on his
10:15
Speaker 1: way to the poking now. But Natty, I was talking
10:18
Speaker 1: to a prosecutor this morning in Fulton County who said,
10:22
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know if he really did
10:24
Speaker 1: it or not. Did I ask you what? Somebody I
10:30
Speaker 1: don't even know? They weren't in the courtroom. I mean Renee. Okay,
10:34
Speaker 1: I say, I'm going to have to go through the
10:36
Speaker 1: evidence with you. Nothing would do, Nothing will do. Let
10:40
Speaker 1: me go through the evidence with Renee. So this is
10:44
Speaker 1: what happened before I get lost. Let me see. Here
10:47
Speaker 1: is this where I'm turning? Yes, this is where I'm
10:49
Speaker 1: turning Renee the night of the murders Maggie, Paul and Murdock.
10:57
Speaker 1: First of all, he lured Mackie to the hunting lodge
11:01
Speaker 1: by telling her that his father, mister Randolph, was going
11:06
Speaker 1: to pass away and they needed to go to visit him.
11:09
Speaker 1: She did not want to go. She was at the
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Speaker 1: beach house and edistow. He didn't want to come back.
11:17
Speaker 1: They weren't living together, to my understanding, but he gilted
11:20
Speaker 1: her into it. I'd like to point out they never
11:23
Speaker 1: did go see mister Randolph. That was a big fat lie.
11:26
Speaker 1: So they're out there at this kennel trying to take
11:30
Speaker 1: a video of a dog, and it's a video to
11:35
Speaker 1: send to a lady Vett so the lady vet can
11:39
Speaker 1: look at the dog see what if anything is wrong
11:41
Speaker 1: with its tail. So that's a scenario. It's at night,
11:47
Speaker 1: getting close to nine o'clock and the son, Paul, is
11:52
Speaker 1: taking this video and in the background you hear his
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Speaker 1: mother talking, and you hear Murdoch talking well for the
11:59
Speaker 1: next but no, I don't want to get ahead of myself.
12:03
Speaker 1: So then he claims he goes to see his mom
12:06
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes away, who has advans Alzheimer's, and he's
12:12
Speaker 1: there for twenty minutes. He gets back in the car,
12:16
Speaker 1: his suburban, and drives eighty mph on his jarred roads
12:20
Speaker 1: no light. I drove them myself. I don't know how
12:24
Speaker 1: he drove that path because I passed literally at least
12:29
Speaker 1: forty deer in packs. And I don't even know how
12:32
Speaker 1: many possums called out in front of him when I
12:35
Speaker 1: was driving at night, no light at all. He drove
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Speaker 1: at Mtah, got back and within twenty seconds calls nine
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Speaker 1: one one. He tells nine one one that he did
12:51
Speaker 1: not see his family, for I had not seen them
12:55
Speaker 1: for nearly two hours. And they asked if when did
12:59
Speaker 1: you see them? He said at supper. He lied about
13:03
Speaker 1: the critical moment at the kennel because right after that
13:08
Speaker 1: video it's disproven their murders occurred. I mean immediately after
13:12
Speaker 1: that video, I get Paul were shot. Now, who other
13:16
Speaker 1: than the killer Renee would know to Why about the
13:19
Speaker 1: critical five at stucture? Why lie and I one one?
13:25
Speaker 1: And when all you have to do is press reset, replay,
13:29
Speaker 1: rewind and they can hear it again over and over
13:33
Speaker 1: and over again, especially comparing it with another tape recording
13:40
Speaker 1: or at least audio of them talking in the background.
13:43
Speaker 1: Times are critical twenty twenty three, Nancy, you can just
13:49
Speaker 1: hit the replay button. And the thing is he didn't
13:52
Speaker 1: know his voice the call of the video. He was
13:55
Speaker 1: not pictured in the video, but Renee and they had
13:57
Speaker 1: multiple friends, family, flaw partners say even I think his
14:03
Speaker 1: brother said that is Alex Murdoch on that video, and
14:07
Speaker 1: that was that about come I'm talked off the top
14:10
Speaker 1: of my head because I'm driving. But that was about
14:13
Speaker 1: eight forty nine ish. As they believed that murders happened
14:19
Speaker 1: within the next two or three did it. So to
14:23
Speaker 1: find him not guilty, you'd have to believe that he
14:26
Speaker 1: left and the next two or three minutes someone came in,
14:30
Speaker 1: got too of the Murdoch family weapons, the murder weapons
14:36
Speaker 1: belonged to the Murdoch and they proved that beyond even
14:40
Speaker 1: a shadow of it out through ballistics. Came in, ran
14:44
Speaker 1: in behind Alex Murdoch, down, two guns, shot Faullen, Maggie,
14:49
Speaker 1: put the dogs back in their cases in the kennel,
14:53
Speaker 1: and then left. I mean they practically would have had
14:56
Speaker 1: his path Murdoch on that really long tribeway leading out
15:00
Speaker 1: to the main road. So I mean it's not even
15:03
Speaker 1: feasible because he placed It's like Scott Peterson Renee, he
15:07
Speaker 1: placed himself at the saint of the crime at the
15:09
Speaker 1: time of the crime. He's a lawyer, he knows better
15:14
Speaker 1: than to make a statement. Of course, We just kept
15:17
Speaker 1: talking about things that that painte individuals into a corner.
15:23
Speaker 1: They say something and then they're stuck with that statement. Yeah,
15:27
Speaker 1: he lied on Nineland one, and he lied to police
15:31
Speaker 1: and that he was married forever to those lines and Renee,
15:36
Speaker 1: you know, it went twenty plus a month until he
15:39
Speaker 1: got on the sand and only then did he say, Okay,
15:43
Speaker 1: yeah that was me. I lied about it. And this
15:45
Speaker 1: is a ECAs because I did not want to attract
15:48
Speaker 1: scrutiny on myself. Time stories with Nancy Grace every night.
16:08
Speaker 1: Come on, did you found your loved one, the one
16:13
Speaker 1: you love the most in the world dead When you
16:17
Speaker 1: really think about avoiding scrutiny on yourself, I'm not sure, Nancy.
16:23
Speaker 1: That did take twenty months to figure that explanation out.
16:29
Speaker 1: So didn't work, did it? No, it didn't. But I'm
16:34
Speaker 1: curious about why he insisted on taking the stands. If
16:38
Speaker 1: every had a client is on taking a stands against
16:42
Speaker 1: your advice, Okay, two things, Nancy. Rule number one, you
16:47
Speaker 1: never let your client take the stand. But what's rule
16:52
Speaker 1: number two? Sometimes the jury wants to hear the defendants
16:57
Speaker 1: say I did not do it. In this case, I
17:01
Speaker 1: would imagine that Heap as a client, not as a lawyer,
17:05
Speaker 1: but as a client, would have been hard to manage
17:11
Speaker 1: just because he's an attorney. And you can imagine some
17:14
Speaker 1: of the some of the clients over the centuries that
17:17
Speaker 1: might have been hard clients to manage, might have been
17:20
Speaker 1: clients that did not listen to their attorneys, might have
17:24
Speaker 1: been clients that didn't take the legal advice about taking
17:28
Speaker 1: the stand. And of course once you're on the stand,
17:32
Speaker 1: your attorney is going to question you, and those are
17:35
Speaker 1: going to be the softballs. But when that's over, here
17:39
Speaker 1: comes the heavy hitting, Here comes the dynamite, Here comes
17:45
Speaker 1: the bombs and the bomb shells. Yeah, I mean, I
17:48
Speaker 1: have to say I thought he did a fairly good
17:50
Speaker 1: job on direct examination. And it pains me because I mean,
17:55
Speaker 1: I trusted that Freyton Waters is going to do a
17:58
Speaker 1: good job on a cross and he did. But while
18:01
Speaker 1: Arno was up on the stand on directed saminations he
18:04
Speaker 1: did a great job. He was very convinsing. But then
18:08
Speaker 1: on cross he melted like the wicked witch of the weapons,
18:11
Speaker 1: like totally melted, crying the noddy to trying to convince
18:17
Speaker 1: the jury to getting caught in one line after the next.
18:22
Speaker 1: It was. It was painful, but it had to be done. Well.
18:26
Speaker 1: There you have it, Nancy, And no matter how long
18:30
Speaker 1: that you have to spit, no matter how much time
18:33
Speaker 1: you spend with your client, how much trial prep, you
18:38
Speaker 1: can go in there and you can put him in
18:41
Speaker 1: these mock rooms that look like jury rooms and look
18:45
Speaker 1: like to stand and look like the juris. You can
18:48
Speaker 1: even hire jury consultants just to sit there and act
18:52
Speaker 1: like you are in a courtroom and pay individuals to
18:56
Speaker 1: have those many trials with you. No matter what you do,
19:00
Speaker 1: you cannot prepare them for the cross examination. Now. I
19:06
Speaker 1: mean Great Waters crossed him for about two days, and
19:10
Speaker 1: they did that with a box trial. I think they
19:14
Speaker 1: spent a lot of money working this chase up. They
19:17
Speaker 1: had all the defensive family in the courtroom behind him
19:22
Speaker 1: every day, including his son, his brother, so they were there.
19:26
Speaker 1: I mean, the defense did everything I can think. The
19:30
Speaker 1: only thing where I believe the defense fails is keeping
19:33
Speaker 1: you off the sense. And I mean, if the defendive
19:37
Speaker 1: want to takes stand, you can't stop him testifying. No
19:40
Speaker 1: you can't. And then actually that's his right to testify.
19:46
Speaker 1: And before he takes the stand, a judge will tell
19:50
Speaker 1: every defendant outside the presence of the jury. Do you
19:54
Speaker 1: understand even if he's a lawyer, do you understand what
19:58
Speaker 1: this means when you take to stand? You know, I
20:02
Speaker 1: think it really Of course, the jury never found out
20:05
Speaker 1: he had had a pair. There was only one affair
20:09
Speaker 1: was actually brought up in the courtroom and that was disallowed.
20:14
Speaker 1: But you know, every attic that's a man has to
20:18
Speaker 1: find some woman that'll do drugs with him. You know,
20:22
Speaker 1: he I'm sure had nothing to do with drugs at all.
20:26
Speaker 1: She was all about the two boys. Um, a lot
20:33
Speaker 1: was kept out that the jury didn't hear about Murdoch.
20:36
Speaker 1: But all that thievery feeling from his clients, and a
20:40
Speaker 1: lot of those clients were really bad off, like dying
20:44
Speaker 1: with hints or having been in horrible car crashes. All
20:48
Speaker 1: with the cross repletion. He stole all their honey, all
20:51
Speaker 1: of their you know, their recovery, their their settlements. He
20:55
Speaker 1: just stole them. And what tells the clients always I'm
20:58
Speaker 1: working on it's gonna happen one of these days. And
21:03
Speaker 1: he was spending all the money on God only knows what.
21:06
Speaker 1: I don't know what he was doing. All that money
21:10
Speaker 1: you've ever had a client that you told not to
21:12
Speaker 1: take the stand, do it anyway, Yes, And you can
21:17
Speaker 1: only suggest a few times that you can even bring
21:20
Speaker 1: in friends that are defense attorneys that used to be prosecutors,
21:24
Speaker 1: that will start wearing them out after after your practice
21:29
Speaker 1: direct but that is their right, Nancy. And when they
21:32
Speaker 1: get on the stand, it's almost like you can't even
21:36
Speaker 1: help them. After you rest on your on your direct examination,
21:42
Speaker 1: you can't help them. You can knock over a glass
21:45
Speaker 1: of water or something, you can run some distraction in
21:51
Speaker 1: the courtroom, but you can't help the client. It's almost
21:55
Speaker 1: like turning them loose. And then the dogs just attack.
22:01
Speaker 1: And there's a thing you can do is sit there
22:03
Speaker 1: and see them annihilated across the examination. But I'm wondering
22:08
Speaker 1: at the jury. You're looking at the jury and the
22:12
Speaker 1: jury drinking it in, and their faces and whether or
22:17
Speaker 1: not they're taking notes or if they just cross their arms.
22:21
Speaker 1: And then and then the disgust sets in. And another
22:25
Speaker 1: thing about all the stealing and the and all the
22:30
Speaker 1: the misuse of fund et cetera. The prosecutors introduce that
22:36
Speaker 1: not to not to to make you want to say
22:39
Speaker 1: okay and now, and because of this, he also murdered
22:45
Speaker 1: his family. But no matter what, Nancy, it starts out
22:50
Speaker 1: with a very bad taste in the jury's mouth about
22:54
Speaker 1: this defendant. Well, this is the thing. The judge ruled
23:00
Speaker 1: that evidence out. The defense scored big time, and then
23:04
Speaker 1: one of the lawyers not to leave the attorney. But
23:07
Speaker 1: second Chair Griffin actually opened the door. I could not
23:15
Speaker 1: believe it because you know that kind of haven't typically
23:19
Speaker 1: the judgment rule out because it deemed to be more
23:22
Speaker 1: prejudicial than probative. That when Griffin did that, I could
23:28
Speaker 1: not believe it. He opened the door in the financial crimes.
23:34
Speaker 1: And of course the state walked right in and they
23:39
Speaker 1: waited for that. The state waited for them. And once
23:42
Speaker 1: you get once you put all that in front of
23:44
Speaker 1: the jury, well there you go. Oh. I mean, it
23:49
Speaker 1: proved not only that he was a bad person, but
23:52
Speaker 1: that he would do anything. It's the staying there, I think,
23:57
Speaker 1: extriving at lifestyle. He would do anything big, borrow it's
24:01
Speaker 1: steel to preserve Alex Murdogue had preserved facade they had going,
24:09
Speaker 1: and to just keep it going, he had to keep
24:12
Speaker 1: stealing and lie about it. And I think that was
24:17
Speaker 1: the thing. The line, the line to the jury about everything.
24:22
Speaker 1: I think that was the purpose of that testimony. Well, Nancy,
24:26
Speaker 1: you have to you have to feel sorry for the
24:29
Speaker 1: remaining child. Everybody's gone. But let me ask you something.
24:34
Speaker 1: When you had finished a long jury trial, what do
24:38
Speaker 1: you do besides try to get back to normal life?
24:43
Speaker 1: Are you talking directly after the trial? I always run
24:47
Speaker 1: up and see if I can talk to the jurards.
24:50
Speaker 1: Love love love. You taught me that, Nancy, besides the
24:53
Speaker 1: jury notes that are discarded, love to talk to a
24:56
Speaker 1: jurard to find out U what they liked, what they
25:01
Speaker 1: didn't like, where they needed more explanation, whether or not
25:06
Speaker 1: they thought it would have been better for somebody to
25:08
Speaker 1: take the stand, not take the stand. You've done it
25:12
Speaker 1: a thousand times too, Nancy. I'm sure you've run into
25:16
Speaker 1: juries jurars that you've tried cases in front of, just
25:20
Speaker 1: in the Atlanta area. One. Can I tell you my
25:24
Speaker 1: dentist was one of my girars obviously not while not while,
25:31
Speaker 1: not while it was your dentist. No, No, I mean
25:35
Speaker 1: this is years later, right. I had a dentists appointment
25:39
Speaker 1: and I thought the guy looked kind of familiar, And
25:42
Speaker 1: the more I thought about it, I could just picture
25:44
Speaker 1: him and I can pull over with a shirt underneath,
25:50
Speaker 1: and I got into looking at him, and sure enough
25:54
Speaker 1: that he was on my jury. I think he was
25:58
Speaker 1: on the bank robbery Jay, where I had a disliketing
26:01
Speaker 1: bank Robert. Don't touch the al Ram, this is a Robie.
26:05
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that was in case I need to ask.
26:08
Speaker 1: I can't remember what case you. Yes, I do. I
26:11
Speaker 1: do run into gurors occasionally, but I remember I feel
26:17
Speaker 1: much the same way today right now, as a matter
26:19
Speaker 1: of fact, that when I would walk out of the
26:21
Speaker 1: courthouse and breathe in, I felt like I had never
26:26
Speaker 1: breathed before. It like you're enforced in this this complicated
26:35
Speaker 1: chess game, and that's all consuming, and then when you
26:40
Speaker 1: step out, it's over. It's like you're seeing the world
26:45
Speaker 1: again for the first time and you haven't seen it.
26:47
Speaker 1: And it's however long you've been working on that trial
26:51
Speaker 1: exactly NaN's. And to be a prosecutor, what a three
26:55
Speaker 1: ring circus. You got to make sure your victims don't
26:59
Speaker 1: get away, your witnesses are are there and ready to
27:04
Speaker 1: go and not. I mean, you've had cases, Nancy, where
27:08
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've had a victim go eat lunch, and
27:12
Speaker 1: then you've had to send your You've had to send
27:14
Speaker 1: your investigators out to bring them back because they went in.
27:19
Speaker 1: I'll I'll never forget at the first the first time,
27:24
Speaker 1: they didn't call it this at the time, but it
27:26
Speaker 1: was a child trafficking scene. And my girl victim disappeared
27:34
Speaker 1: the night before her testimony. I was up till five
27:37
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning trying to find her. Sure enough,
27:40
Speaker 1: Fild investigator Ernest found her and brought her back to
27:44
Speaker 1: the courthouse. She was afraid, afraid to test the time. Yeah,
27:48
Speaker 1: people have no idea what goes into putting on a trial,
27:51
Speaker 1: and for the stake. Remember I had just albertson for
27:54
Speaker 1: so long and there was no slowing down with him.
27:57
Speaker 1: He was the oldest judge of the courthouse and he
28:00
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure everybody needs he was fit and
28:03
Speaker 1: ready to stry cases. That then I would fish one winness.
28:07
Speaker 1: They call your neck quitness, and if you didn't have
28:10
Speaker 1: your neck quitness ready, then that would be deemed to
28:13
Speaker 1: be the end of your say you weren't ready to present,
28:17
Speaker 1: then it was over. You better have somebody who walking
28:21
Speaker 1: in and getting it on that winnes stand. Somebody better
28:25
Speaker 1: get up there and get put their hand on the
28:27
Speaker 1: Bible and start talking pretty much the way it went. Okay.
28:32
Speaker 1: Final thoughts on Alex Murdog getting ready for the appeal. Nancy,
28:38
Speaker 1: I can assure you that the defense attorneys, the defense
28:42
Speaker 1: team knows how to reach each and every one of
28:46
Speaker 1: those girars, because they'll be approaching the gerard, maybe getting
28:50
Speaker 1: an Affidavid, maybe trying to find some reason, some appealable issue,
29:00
Speaker 1: in some way to save their client from spending the
29:04
Speaker 1: rest of his life in jail. Can you explain the
29:08
Speaker 1: people how you can give your all to a dependence
29:12
Speaker 1: and then they jump I'm explaining ineffective assistance accountable. Well, Nancy,
29:18
Speaker 1: that's that's expected, and the courts um sometimes get aggravated,
29:24
Speaker 1: but defense attorneys are the first one to step up
29:27
Speaker 1: and say, yes, you're right, I was ineffective. I'll give
29:30
Speaker 1: you an affidavit. I was ineffective because I didn't do
29:34
Speaker 1: this that that is that, sign their names to it
29:38
Speaker 1: and file that out the land. They help the clients
29:43
Speaker 1: acts exactly. Oh yeah, the defense They was out from
29:47
Speaker 1: the court out today, all wearing their sunglasses talking about
29:51
Speaker 1: how unfair of the trial was and they vowed to
29:54
Speaker 1: a feel and like a first they as the first. Yeah,
29:57
Speaker 1: they're already working on that affield. Man, you'll see it.
30:01
Speaker 1: But you'll see a new set of attorneys coming in
30:05
Speaker 1: for the appeal because they will at this point have
30:10
Speaker 1: to talk about how the first defense team messed up
30:14
Speaker 1: in some form or fashion and caused some type of
30:18
Speaker 1: an appealable issue. You know, I'm thinking Renee, the other nine.
30:26
Speaker 1: I finished work, lay, I flit for a walk around
30:31
Speaker 1: the four house and I walked down to the jail
30:36
Speaker 1: and it's surrounded by razor wire. This is glittered in
30:41
Speaker 1: the n eye in the life, and I'm thinking about
30:44
Speaker 1: Murdoch being in there and what he was thinking, what
30:49
Speaker 1: he did this thing, I'm telling you, and I cannot
30:54
Speaker 1: breathe in this air fast to get away from Murdoch
31:00
Speaker 1: and the waste of the thought of being in jail,
31:03
Speaker 1: and the waste of the crime scene photos of Paul
31:06
Speaker 1: and Naggie and all of them heart breaks, Alex Burdog
31:12
Speaker 1: frained down on his family. I gotta tell you now,
31:16
Speaker 1: you've got a strong or something that I do hard
31:18
Speaker 1: enough to prosecus case, much less offend these people. But
31:22
Speaker 1: you know what my hat talked to you. Nay rockfelt
31:25
Speaker 1: goodbye friends,