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Will Liberatore Take The Next Step? What Starters will the Cardinals Sign? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: When you see those cardinals pecking away, you know it's
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: time for another edition of Cardinal Territory. Hello everybody, I'm
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes, joined by Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn, who
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: was absent for the last show because he was in
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: a tree stand and he was hunting, and I would
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: be remiss, gentlemen, hello if I didn't start by getting
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: an update on what sort of carcass that Lance ended
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: up with.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Lance, I was over in Ohio, so now I'm back
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: in Illinois and I've got I've got one that I'm
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: looking for here, but in Ohio saw one that I
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: would have liked to have shot. But you know me,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I'm very by the book. Wasn't quite shooting light. Didn't
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: really seem very ethical person, So I didn't make this shot.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: On the guy.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: When you can't really see what you think it's who
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: it is. Next thing, you know, you get up to
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: him like, oh, that's the wrong one. Anyone who's hunted
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: knows that feeling. There's nothing like the old ground shrink
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: kings as they call it. But no, I couldn't quite
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: see him. So that's the that's the hard part of hunting.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: You know, you got to have the right shot, right
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: right angle, all those good things, and you know, he
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: just didn't present himself for me for that harvest unfortunately, Kyle,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Are you disappointed?
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: I mean you do your homework and do all everything
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: you can and then the deer changes course on it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: You know, what are you gonna do?
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: It stinks.
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: I feel for you, but I think you have enough
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: acres to find the one that you need there in Illinois.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: You should be okay.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Ohio is just kind of a bonus hunt anyway,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: So you know you're there, just get to stand, get
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: your feet wet. But yeah, so unfortunately that was that
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: was how that went. So well, we're back in We're
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: back in the rut, and you know, in Illinois here.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: So I might go out this afternoon and see what
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I can. You see what pops out?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for the record, it's a compound. It's in a state.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: It's not a normal home. We do want to talk
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: a little Cardinals baseball, and I think it's fair to
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: say that one thing is clear. As Heim Bloom takes
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: over and starts to sort of piece together the roster
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: for this year's team the upcoming season, they're gonna need
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: some pitching. Because Sonny Gray has agreed to a trade.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: You think they could probably get that done. Where there's
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: a will, there there's a way. Miles Michaelis is a
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: free agent. So that leaves the Cardinals with Libertor, McGreevy,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: possibly Polante, and Kyle lay He who's intriguing because he
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: was so good out of the pen, always wants the ball,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: has a rubber arm. They're gonna bring him to spring
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: training and stretch him out as a starter. I think
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: he's gonna end up in the rotation. So I wanted
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to start with Matthew Libertor. Start with you, Lance Libby.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Last year, first year, they were worried about its first
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: year as a full time starter. Started the season up
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: with really good month and another good month in the middle,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: ranted some problems, had a little fatigue issue, but finished
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: really strong. You guys were both teammates a Liberatory. So Lance,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: what do the Cardinals have in Libby?
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I think we're kind of in a still wait and see.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: But I think there's a lot of good signs and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: a lot of good building blocks going forward for him.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: He's gonna be able to stack years of starting Last
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: year was a good building block after a year of
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: throwing out the bullpen and really understanding understanding how stuff plays.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: And then last year was a hey, how's the year
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: going to go on? As a starter, the ups and
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: downs of the body of the workload, the in between
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: start workload. Because I know Livy's a thrower, He's gonna
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: have to find that in between of throwing too much
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: and not enough, and the only way to do that
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: is by doing it. So I think next year he's
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: just going to be even better. Those those times where
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: he was, you know, maybe had a you know down
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: a couple of starts won't be as long. And that's
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: the part of of you know, doing it for a
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: year in and year out, you learn to get through those quicker,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: or you learn to make him only a start or
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: two and they don't turn into a four or five
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: start stretch like they did at times this year. So
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I think I think he's only on the up and up,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: and I think last year was a good sign and
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: you know, just getting into it again where he'll be
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: even better at it because he's already.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Don't once, Kyle, jump in, we're under new rules.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: Just jump in where you feel right.
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, thank you, Jim, I appreciate you giving
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: me the approval to talk.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Usually usually excuse.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: Me, yeah, I mean I don't want to interrupt lance,
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: you know, like I'll interrupt you to ask a question.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: But I'm not Gonnace, just you know, out of respect.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: Not that I don't respect you, Jim, You're a very
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: respectful person. I respect you. Back to Libby, I think
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: Libby is is gonna have, you know, a step forward
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: and be even better. I think if there's one thing
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: that he probably really took from this year is that
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: there is a difference in how your stuff plays as
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: a reliever and a starter. And he had figured out
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: how his stuff played really well as a reliever in
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: the last couple of years, and then this year he
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: really figured out how it played as a starter. And
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: I think that's something that as as you figure that out,
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: and as you can carry that from year to year,
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: you know, that's when you can really take steps forward.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: And I know it's a process that maybe fans aren't
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: a huge you know, they don't necessarily like it because
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: it takes time, but it's a real thing when you're
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: trying to use four or five pitches instead of simplifying
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: and using two or three it's a big deal. And
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: then when you're going through a lineup two or three times,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: it's a big deal. So he's a guy that I
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: look for to be a really good pitch for the
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Cardinals this year.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: He just turned twenty six. He's been around a long time.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I think people forget he's still a young guy. But
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: last one thing I noticed about Libby when he was
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: in the bullpen, especially leverage situations, it seemed he pitched
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: with more of an edge, like there was a little
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: growl to the things he did, and I saw some
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: of that as a starter. How important is that for
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Libby to be that guy on the mound?
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's and it's just finding who you are, right.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's one of those things that as a
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: young kid, like you just said, he's twenty six and
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: he's still kind of figuring out who is, who his
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: demeanor is, who he is, and who he wants to
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: be out there. When you come up and don't have success,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: it's hard to kind of have that. I think you're
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: starting to see him have success and then he's gonna
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: get comfortable and who he is and he's gonna you're
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: gonna start seeing that he's gonna be able to go
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: out there and just compete. Instead of being like, hey,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I need to show everybody I belong, it turns into hey,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go out here and compete, and then that's
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: when you take that next step. So I think Libby
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: needs to know he belongs, and he's proven that he belongs.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Now it's like, hey, how can I go dominate as
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: much as I can? And that's when that when that
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: growd comes out. So I'm looking forward to him having that,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Hey I'm in the rotation. I've shown that I can
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: be in the rotation. Now I can just go compete.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And that's what it's about. Where when you're coming up
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: and young and you're you're having ups and downs and
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: you're struggling a little bit, it's you can't really be yourself.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: But now he's gonna be able to be himself. I hope,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: and you're just I think he's going to be even
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: better when he gets to be able.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: To do that.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: If there's such thing as a learning process, which I
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: believe there is. Andre Polante had a learning process last year,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: some good, some not so good. You almost feel for
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: him because he wears it. You know, you look at
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: him and you know, if he's coming off a good
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: outing or a bad outing, I assume dealing with that
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: is part of that process kind of you know Polonte
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: pretty well. Do you think he's a guy that could
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: or should be part of the cardinal rotation coming up?
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I think he should be, and I think if
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: he's not, he's going to be a part of somebody's
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: rotation because this stuff is really good, and he's going
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: to get another opportunity. You just, you know, if we
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: probably look at I didn't see all of his starts,
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: so just how the numbers were, but I'm sure there's
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: probably five or six, maybe seven starts that probably weighed
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: a little bit and you know, skewed some of the numbers.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: So you know, over the overall, he probably was fairly
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: average at what he's doing. Hey, what's going on? How
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: are you? So?
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: I think that.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: You know, he's got to get another chance. I've been
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: there where you have a down year and you're just
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: you're not the pitch that you want to be. There
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: could be a whole lot of other factors that go
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: into it that cause some of the issues. And once again,
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: you know, he's also trying to figure out how the
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: league is adjusting to him starting. I know that sounds crazy,
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: but he just is. So, you know, I look for
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: him to have a bounce back here, and I really
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: hope the Cardinals keep him and give him another chance
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: because he's He's great for that clubhouse, awesome personality, and
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: I think he's gonna have another really good year.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: What what's the problem with Polante when things aren't going
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: right in your view lands, I.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Think he runs away from contact when he starts giving
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: up pits, and that's when the walks.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: The walks got him this year.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there was a different mindsets and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: was he chasing strikeouts or chasing non contact. And when
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: you start doing that, that's when the walks go up.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: And when the walks go up, that ground ball seems
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: to get through and costs you a run or two,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and then the innings get longer. He's a ground ball specialist,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: so he needs to realize I'm not going to be
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: able to chase strikeouts and be a high strikeout guy,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: but when I get the opportunity, go for it. But
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: his problem last year, I think from the get go
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: was he tried to strike people out. Oh, when you're
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: trying to strike people out, oh, it turns the three
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: to two real quick, and then you put a lot
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: of stressful pitches on yourself, and then that's when the
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: things snowball on you.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: So Number one thinging, he's going to go first two
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: pitches of it. At bat.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get a ground ball and get it
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: out and go from there. And if I get the
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: ability to get to a strikeout count, then go for it.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: But you can't strike anybody out. Oh, And I think
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: that's what he was pressing to try to do last year.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And then when you do that as a picture, it
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: gets bad for you.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Now, you guys, he's such a thinker, right, He's such
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: a thinker, and he prepares. He's like you said, Jim,
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: he is hard on himself. He does wear it. Which
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: if I was having to sit down with him, and
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: I've talked to him a lot, I would say, listen, Dre,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: you can't be so hard on yourself. I need to
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: be able to look at you in the dugout and
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: not know how the outing is going, because you need
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: to be able to move on to the next inning.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: That's that's tough, easier to say, tough to do. But
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: he's such a thinker. And when you're starting to look
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: at either arbitration or you know other numbers like you know,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: advanced statistics, you know, trying to get your fip here,
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: your strike up for nine there. Like, at the end
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: of the day, getting outs is the goal. And if
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: you can find a good process to get outs, you
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: will be able to pitch for a long time. And yes,
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: I look at a guy like Ranger Sworez. Why does
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: Ranger swore is not gonna start in the postseason? I
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: don't know, but it probably has something to do with
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: velocity or strikeouts whatever it is. Like, but Ranger Sworez
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: is a stud. He gets out at a.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Very high clip.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: Andre Ponte is really good and he has a recipe
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: to get outs. And like Lance said, pick your times
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: where you need to get a strikeout and go get one.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: Other than that, go rattle through five or six innings
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: as quick as you can and be that guy that
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: is above average and is in the seventh inning all
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: the time.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I root for that guy because he's a nice guy.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: I believe he does have good stuff.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: If you look at your screen right now, you see
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: that one of these things is not like the other
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: two or former athletes send on a pilot cash. The
• 11:42
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• 11:47
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  Speaker 4: I feel like this is a good time, like you know,
• 13:01
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• 13:05
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• 13:09
  Speaker 4: I think you should say that next time.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I just read what they tell me to read. You know,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not a thinking man. I'm your You get to
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• 13:25
  Speaker 1: the is the Cat's me out. So we're talking about, uh,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals potential uh starting rotation. I wanted to bring
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: up a couple other guys like we saw McGreevy last year,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: young guy who doesn't wear it, seems to always have
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: fun out there, always seems to be enjoying himself, and
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: he had some success small sample size, we saw big games.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: He pitched really well.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Lance.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: What do you think the Cardinals may have in Michael McGreevy.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I think he could be a solid Uh you know,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: he's three four type starter. He's got all the pitches,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: he's got all the makeup for it. I don't think
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: if you look at his stuff as a whole. It's
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: very complimentary to each other. I don't think he has
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: a standout pitch or anything like that, but he knows
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: how to pitch. He moves the ball around. He's not
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: a Hey, I'm just going to use these two pitches
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and get you out. He's gonna move around the strike
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: zone do his thing. So I think when you look
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: at that without the high velocity and stuff like that,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: you you kind of pushed him in the three four range.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean he can't be very successful in
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the big leagues because he has all the pitches. So
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: it's it's I mean, they've pretty much shown it's the
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: time to see what you got there. He's had success
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: at at all the levels. He's had success at times
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: in the big leagues. Now give him a chance to
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: be with a big leagues all year ago, the ups
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and downs kind of like Libby had to do this year.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: That should be his spot next year, if that makes sense.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: So I think that's a that's where he's at, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: then hopefully you look at him the next year and
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: then you got you have him and Libby as a
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: as your chance to Hey, these two are the guys
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: that we can we can slot in at at three four,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: maybe one of them jumps to a two, and then
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: you're in a really good spot where you have a
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: we have two younger guys that have all the pitches
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: to be successful.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Then you can build around those two in the rotation.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And they're all I think they're similar age wise too,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: so it could be could be a good spot for him.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Kyle, Yeah, I I agree.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: I like mc greevy. You know, he's got stuff. I
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: like how he you know, really everything Lance said. You know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: Lance has taking all my information today and just really
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: you know, taking away the need for me to be
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: here right now with all of his answers. But I think.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Good point. Good point.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: I think it'll be interesting to see how it's swing
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: and miss changes, and maybe he ticks up over a
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: full year. You know, It's it's hard to I know,
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: the game doesn't necessarily like starters like this that don't
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: get swing and miss and don't have the projectable numbers.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: But he's just another guy. All throughout his career, he's
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: gotten outs, you know's how to pitch, and you gotta
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: have guys like that, all right.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: For the record, the bosses are new bosses. Foul territory
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: probably came from aj Prazinski. They put in a nice way.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: They were like, we want to see the guys like
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: interact more. That was their way of saying, we'd like
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to see a little less jump and a little bit
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: more of the other guys, So feel free to jump in. Kyle,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I do want to. I do kind of want to
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: steer it. Another guy who I find intriguing, we mentioned him.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: We talked about Kyle Lake, a guy who I like
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: a lot. He was Kyle Lahey was nasty out of
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the bullpen and he would pitch back to back game James.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: He would pitch.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: He didn't really care when he got the ball. And
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: I asked him about it and I said, where does
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: that come from? He said, I never want to say
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: that I can't take the ball or I'm not ready.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: You know, he always wants the baseball, and now they're
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: going to give him a shot to stretch out and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: be in the starting rotation. You know, that guy a
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: little bit really quiet, but when he's on the mountain,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: he's intense. He's his own guy.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Lance.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: What do you think about lay he as a starter.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's a no doubt or it really is.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I think you saw that. Here's the truth of the matter.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: He didn't want to get sent down, so he was
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: always ready. He got screwed when we were with him
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: being sent down, being overused, and he's like, no, I'm
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: good every day, I'm good.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: I don't want to go back down.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: So when you have a guy with that mentality and
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: then you're gonna give him a chance to start, he's
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: got a chance to say, hey, I don't want to
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: go back to the bullpen, watch me run with this shit.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And that's what I think he is as a person.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: He's like, I want to be good. I want to
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: be a big year. You give me an opportunity. I'm
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: not turning anything down. So with all this stuff and
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: his mental in this stuff that he's had to deal
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: with in his career by going up and down and
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: kind of he got taken off the roster. I think
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: the year we played with him, he came into camp
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: as a as a non roster guy technically, and I
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: was like, why is this guy not on a roster
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: and how nobody picked him up when he was in
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: spring training. They're like, oh, we don't know we just
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: kind of snuck him through, and I was like, he's
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: kind of nscrewed and now he's got a chance. So
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: hopefully he runs with it. And I think he's got
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: all the tools to do it.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: I think the other part of this that is beneficial
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: for the Cardinals just as a whole. Right, you know,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: if I'm looking at this from from the higher up view,
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: is his versatility is something that's you know, not he
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: is taught and is a little bit more rare, you know.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: So if he goes into spring training and say they
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: do find a veteran guy that they bring in, say
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: a Quinn Matthews, is you know, taking that next step.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: And he's ready.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: Well, now you have a couple options where you can
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: either go to a six man for a little bit
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: if you need to limit innings for some of these guys,
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: or you can say, hey, leeki uh once again, I
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: know the stinks, but there's gonna be plenty of starts
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: here forty this year. But we don't want to send
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: you down because you have this ability to stay stretched
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: out two, three, four innings at a time, and then
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: when we do need a starter, you're ready to go.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: And that's gonna be. You know, your spot just offers
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: a lot of flexibility, keeps him in the big leagues,
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: throwing meaningful innings and getting meaningful outs.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a no doubt.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: So you look at this year, the way that they're
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: gonna go about it, he's probably gonna he's he's in
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: one hundred and forty max anything. If Matthews is anything
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: like they hope he's gonna be, he's in one hundred
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: and forty inning range.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: You want Polante.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: If he's in there, that's your one sixty with uh
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: with Libby, there's another one sixty.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: To hopefully a little bit more.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: But if you start doing that, there's a lot of
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: innings to cover, and if you're gonna need eight guys
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: to do it. So if you have those those four
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: right there, and then you have McGreevy with probably with
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: his starting pass and stuff like that, he should be
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: in the one forty one to fifty range. They're gonna
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: need another one hundred and fifty guy, maybe two like
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: if you look at it, or maybe a hundred guy.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: One hundred and fifty guys.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: So you got to figure out how to get these
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: innings as starters because you have a young bullpen that
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: did really good when they got put in their spots
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: in the back end of the season, So how do
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: you go backwards from there? And it's like, we need
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: to find multi we need to find eight guys that
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: can cover five to six innings to start, and that's
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: where they're at. And they've got the makings of what
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: we just named four or five. You know, now, who's
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: gonna be the next three that step up or what's
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: going to be on the market for for those guys
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: that are not huge salaries.
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: So this is this would be my proponent for keeping
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: Sonny Gray and not trinting him is because you look
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: at these guys that you just named and how they
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: pitched in what they're capable of. All of a sudden,
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: you have three or four guys that you can pencil
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: in for a low four high three era maybe even better,
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: and Sonny Gray leading the whole thing. And I think
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: we can agree that a good pitching staff can take
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: some pressure off the offense and that's the stability part
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: of having a team that consistently wins. And that would
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: be my.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: And and taking exactly and teaching those guys a lot
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: as they go along, because he wants to do that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, we we both saw Sonny and you know
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: Sonny really well. Like I mean, how cool is it
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: if those guys have Sonny Gray down there for him
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: for their bullpens, you know, just talking and working with
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: Dusty and working with Sonny and and making making changes
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: and little adjustments. I can, you know, reap big rewards.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: So the young guys Doyle, Gwynn, Matthews, Roby tink Hans,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: among others. Hello, at your daughter, what's your name?
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: This is noblely Yeah, she can't hear you right now, Jim,
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: I probably prefer it that way. I got the headphones day,
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: and you know, he's just esus, the pretty face of
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: the family here just saying hi.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: So if those guys are part of the picture, then
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I think having a veteran like Sonny Gray would be
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: a good thing. I have a feeling Sonny's gone. He
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: already said yeah, I'd be fine with the trade. But
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: if not, then the Cardinals you're going to have to
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: look outside the organization, either trade or free agency. I'm
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: gonna get your guys thoughts on that when we come
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: back from break stick with us you're watching Cardinal Territory.
• 22:16
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  Speaker 3: FT sounds good to me.
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  Speaker 1: I'm just waiting for them to send us free product
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  Speaker 1: and then you can have Lance Linn or Kyle Gibson
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  Speaker 1: drinking your energy drink or displaying your product as long
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  Speaker 1: as you give them some free stuff. Are you guys
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  Speaker 1: on board with that.
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  Speaker 3: We'll call that retirement Bud. Yeah, yeah, we have turn
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  Speaker 3: let's do it.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: And we have Kyle Gibson, who he just lost. He
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: always comes back. He always comes back. So before the
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: break we talked about and I think it's not a possibility.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I think it's gonna happen where the Cardinals are gonna
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: have to go outside the organization. They have some young arms.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Are they ready?
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. They have some guys in the rotation
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: now that should be back, and they've shown me they
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: can pitch. But they're gonna need some help. So I
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: gave you guys a little homework assignment, and I gave
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: you guys like twenty five minutes to work on it.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: So you should be ready.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Give me one or two guys that are either free
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: agents or you think realistically could be acquired via trade
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: that could help the Cardinals. I'll start with Lance because
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: he answered my text first.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I've got two guys, and I think I talked about
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: him earlier this year. I got Jordan Montgomery, which won't
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: probably won't be ready to juneish.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: But I also have.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Gelida Lucas Jeelita, who they said all signs are healthy
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: and all that, and both of those guys are kind
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: of in a hey, we got to prove it. They're
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: in the age bracket to where hey, you gotta we
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: gotta have a prove it type deal, and if they
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: do well, you trade him, you get something for him.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: But if they do really well, then you got a
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: nice combo of veteran guys that do it a little
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: differently that could be really good for the group that
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: we've talked about already today. They both are different type
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: of thinkers, which will will bode well with each guy
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: in the or different guys in the clubhouse. So those
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: are my two that I would go and get. And
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I don't know what you know either
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: one of them are looking for. But Montgomery's probably in
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: a in a situation where he's gonna take a one
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: with an option type of thing, and Gelidos, you know,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: he's got to prove that he's healthy after the little
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: hiccup that he had right at the end of the
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: year too.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: But I played with I've played with both.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: They're both X tammates and both great guys and to
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: pitch and pitch at a high level in different types
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: of ways.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: So I like, yeah, I think that. I think that
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: the two guys that I think I talked about, you know,
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: if you weeks ago, one would be Zach Eflin. Don't
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: know what Zach would be looking for, but man, what
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: a great guy, really good thinker, would be great for
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: those young guys. And I think the other one that
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: I mentioned that Lance laughed at me because I had
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: no idea of what the projected salary is going to
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: be for him. But I would look at a guy
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: like Zach Gallon and I would I would look at
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: him and think about if these young pitchers, if you
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: really believe you have the right group for the next
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: four years, three to four years, then you need that
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: guy to lead that group for those three or four years.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: That would just be my opinion. And if a guy
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: like Quinn Matthews or somebody becomes, you know, a dominant
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: lefty that you believe he can be, now all of
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: a sudden, you have a really formidable one two punch
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: to go along with the other three or four guys.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: So that's I don't know. That would just be my play.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Do you think Billy d goes over one hundred million
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: dollars for a pitcher this offseason?
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: I don't know. See that's the beauty is here. Jim
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: did not ask me anything about mister DeWitt and that nursey.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: Mike question.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Do you think Billy Dee goes over one hundred mili
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: this off season for a starting pitcher?
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: I think that if hein Bloom and you know it,
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: if you're getting rid of if you're.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Getting rid of Sunny Grade, you're not spending one hundred
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: million dollars on a damn thing.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: I understand. But you have Sonny Gray for one year.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: Zach Gallan is going to be five years probably now
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you're you're into this window that
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: you believe you need to be to bring Cardinals fans
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: winning baseball again. That is why I would bring in
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: Zach Gallan to go through this window of the next
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: four or five years.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, so Zach Gallon and you you're mentioned Sonny Gray.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: So Sonny Gray's twenty five a year was his number.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: No, this is his last year at thirty five.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I know that, but that that was his number of
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: his deal. Three for seventy five. That was his number,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: all right, So Gallon's probably looking for six.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: For the.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Question that I have is I just you know, I
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: just think that it's, hey, we're gonna take money away.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Let's sprinkle lens some one for fives to tens.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Let's see where we're at.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Come, do you think he's gonna get six? You think
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: he's getting at least he's getting at least five. I mean,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: if he wants to take a shorter if he wants
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: to take a shorter deal, it's gonna be over. He's
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: younger than Sonny was when he got his deal, so
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: ga Gallon's thirty. Yeah, So if it's a he's gonna
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: get at least four and it's gonna be over. It's
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: gonna be twenty five to thirty a year, at least
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: in my opinion. So I don't think that fits the
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: mold of the Cardinals off season.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: And I also don't think I know how high.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: Approaches.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: True.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: True, but in my opinion, if you're going to do that,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: you keep sunny. The next thing, you know what those
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: start as we're talking about now, you gotta now you
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: gotta you're in the You're in the stake.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: That's what we talked about already. I agree. I look back.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: I look back and see how Texas did it. You know,
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: those couple of years after we were no longer there, right,
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: you know, everybody probably thought that they were a little
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: nuts going into twenty twenty two and bringing it secret
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: and Simeon and putting Staples at the middle of the field,
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: and like, well they didn't add any pitching. You know,
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: how is this going to play out? Well, then twenty
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: twenty three they got their pitching. Yeah they had You know,
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: I think, like, you can do the same thing, you
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: can bring it down and then now it helps you
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: for the next four years.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I haven't had had a rough season last year, right, yeah,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I just one.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: If that hurts the things he's done in the postseason
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and the things you're looking at, worst case scenario, worst
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: case scenario, he's four for twenty five.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: A year.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, and then he wants to do order deal.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: He's going to get more than twenty five on a
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: show shorter term deal.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, I think we gave folks some things
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: to think about as we focused on pitching today because
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: we had both our pitchers. Matt Holiday not here this week.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Hopefully he rejoins us next week. But gentlemen, you did
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: give us a lot to think about. Always a pleasure.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Even though Kyle Gibson took a couple of shots at me.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Didn't appreciate that, but I appreciate spending some time with you.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Thanks Jim, And.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: It was nice and it was nicely in your daughter
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: as well. That's gonna do it for this edition of
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory. We'll have another one coming up shortly. We
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: hope that one will not suck.