Latest / Ambitious Podcast / EP.93: The Power Couple Behind The Massive Marketing Empire w/ Kenda & Soren Laney | The Ambitious Podcast

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EP.93: The Power Couple Behind The Massive Marketing Empire w/ Kenda & Soren Laney | The Ambitious Podcast · Ambitious Podcast

• 0:00
  Within 30 days, I hit 100,000 followers.
• 0:03
  The business exploded. What no one talks about is what
• 0:07
  happens that first month that you slow down.
• 0:10
  The second there's a tiny downturn, you're just crushed.
• 0:14
  A rush of leads. One month is a lot of lost
• 0:17
  revenue potential. That challenges everything we've
• 0:19
  been. Taught people want you to do
• 0:21
  well, just not better than them. And everyone's like, oh, I'm the
• 0:24
  CEO. Wrong.
• 0:25
  That's wrong, $2,000,000 is where businesses go to die.
• 0:28
  You don't get what you expect, you get what you inspect.
• 0:31
  Hello and welcome back to Ambitious Today.
• 0:34
  I am excited because we actually have our first duo couple
• 0:37
  episodes, so I cannot wait for you to dive in.
• 0:40
  Today we are joined with the absolutely amazing Kenda and
• 0:44
  Soren Laney. These are two individuals, 2
• 0:47
  entrepreneurs that I deeply respect.
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  Not only are they completely badass at business, but they are
• 0:52
  also a power couple because not only are they scaling this
• 0:56
  massive business, but all the while they also are two that I
• 1:00
  really respect in the way that they put their marriage and
• 1:03
  their relationship first before anything else when it comes to
• 1:06
  the business. And so you know, to rewind a
• 1:09
  little bit, kinda went from having a couple $100 in her bank
• 1:12
  account to now scaling A7 figure business in time, hitting nearly
• 1:18
  $10,000 in their very first month of operating and
• 1:21
  continuing to shatter milestones month after month ever since
• 1:24
  then. But what's even really more
• 1:26
  impressive than just their business as well is also how
• 1:29
  they have done this as not only a true partners in business, but
• 1:33
  true partners in life. They both bring their unique
• 1:36
  strengths to create really something that is truly
• 1:39
  different, but complementary to both themselves individually as
• 1:42
  well. And what I love about their
• 1:44
  approach is that they're not just teaching theory.
• 1:46
  They are someone that I really respect because they teach what
• 1:49
  actually works. Everything that they speak to,
• 1:52
  everything that they teach is something that they have lived,
• 1:55
  embodied, executed, and learned from.
• 1:58
  So I want to share with you some of the things you're going to
• 2:00
  take away from today. Number one, they talk about the
• 2:02
  burn the ship's mentality that allowed them to scale so rapidly
• 2:06
  while having nothing to lose, and why that became their
• 2:09
  biggest advantage when Kenda then dropped out of college mid
• 2:12
  semester to bet everything on starting this business.
• 2:16
  They also discussed their revolutionary neuromarketing
• 2:19
  framework, which Kendan Soren are famous for that gets them
• 2:22
  past the three decision layers of the brain and why traditional
• 2:26
  buyer types are more like the five love languages than
• 2:30
  anything else. They also discussed the instant
• 2:32
  feedback loop strategy that helps to become their secret
• 2:35
  weapon and how having someone to give you real time feedback
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  while you create content in marketing was the difference
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  between their 200 views and being able to go viral.
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  They talk about why they intentionally stop chasing
• 2:47
  virality with their content and now make more money with 1000
• 2:51
  targeted views than they ever did with millions.
• 2:53
  They discuss the brutal truth about scaling too fast and what
• 2:56
  actually breaks when you go from zero to seven figures in a few
• 2:59
  months, and why most people are not actually equipped to handle
• 3:03
  that growth. And last but not least, they
• 3:04
  discuss how to navigate being partners in business and life
• 3:07
  without also wanting to kill each other and their honest take
• 3:11
  on working together 24/7. Why most people's approach to
• 3:14
  work life balance is also actually backwards.
• 3:18
  So this is one of those episodes where I will say you are going
• 3:20
  to want to grab a paper and pen. Not only because they're going
• 3:23
  to teach you incredible insights around scaling and marketing,
• 3:26
  but also because I will say this episode is going to teach you
• 3:29
  just as much about some insights you're going to want to be aware
• 3:33
  of and having a partnership in business or maybe for you with
• 3:36
  your partner in life. So with all that being said,
• 3:38
  let's get into today's episode. All right, you guys, welcome
• 3:49
  back to Ambitious. I am so excited.
• 3:51
  I was just saying before we press record that this is the
• 3:53
  first duo episode that we've done and there could not be a
• 3:56
  better pairing. We have the absolute like power
• 3:58
  couple of Soren and Kendalaney. So guys, welcome to Ambitious.
• 4:02
  I'm excited to have you here. Thanks for having us.
• 4:05
  We're so. Excited to be.
• 4:07
  Here. Wow.
• 4:09
  I can't wait. Honestly.
• 4:11
  I have had the absolute pleasure of knowing you guys for a couple
• 4:13
  years. And I was just saying that I
• 4:16
  feel like I'm able to see like your two personalities, the two
• 4:18
  ways that you see the business. And it's such like this
• 4:21
  harmonious thing because I feel like you guys have different
• 4:24
  traits, different skills, different perspectives.
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  And then when you bring it together, it really is like a
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  powerful duo. So for anyone maybe who isn't
• 4:32
  everyone's familiar, let's just be honest, everyone knows
• 4:34
  Kendall Laney on the Internet. This is not something you're
• 4:36
  probably seeing for the first time for her name, but I would
• 4:39
  love because you guys really have been in this together from
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  the beginning. Most people see, I'm sure your
• 4:45
  quote UN quote highlight reel. Maybe they see, you know, the
• 4:48
  level of success you've had in business.
• 4:49
  They see your exposure online. They see your following and they
• 4:53
  see who you and you guys have built to be now.
• 4:57
  But what did that really look like for you guys creating like
• 5:00
  this brand and this company and this identity?
• 5:02
  Like if you kind of take us back, what did that journey
• 5:04
  look? Like, so I'll tell you from my
• 5:07
  side and then I think Storm probably will have some
• 5:10
  different insights because I'm always the one that tells the
• 5:12
  story. So this all started, believe it
• 5:17
  or not, if I were to trace all of the dominoes back, I think it
• 5:22
  goes back to being born with eye cancer.
• 5:26
  And at the time of my diagnosis, there was a 2% survival rate.
• 5:33
  And so the doctors told my parents first we'll try to save
• 5:37
  her life and we'll worry about her sight later.
• 5:40
  And so I had my right eye removed when I was six weeks
• 5:44
  old, and I have a prosthetic eye.
• 5:46
  And because of that, my parents ended up putting me in
• 5:51
  therapeutic horseback riding to help with orientation and
• 5:54
  mobility and depth perception and all of those types of
• 5:57
  things. And I just really fell in love
• 6:00
  with it and I ended up being good at it.
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  So my parents moved from Denver across the state of Colorado to
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  the middle of nowhere so that I could have horses.
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  So we got six horses and I got into barrel racing and I was a
• 6:16
  rodeo queen and it was so much fun.
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  And through the rodeo industry, I kind of got taken under the
• 6:24
  wing of a mentor who is very successful in that space.
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  And I was so desperate just to be in her space and to have
• 6:34
  anything to do with her. And just as a teenager, I ended
• 6:38
  up doing social media for her and it wasn't really an official
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  thing. It was more of just you're a
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  teenager, you understand this stuff, go figure it out.
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  And I ended up being really good at it.
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  She now has several multiple 8 and one of them is a nine figure
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  company. And so that's how I got my
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  start. I learned social media.
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  Then I went to college and I was planning on going to law school.
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  My degree was political science and when I met Soren, I was 18
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  and we got married three months after we met.
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  Wait, what? Yeah, know that.
• 7:21
  I know you guys got married young, but I didn't know that.
• 7:23
  Three months, OK. Yeah, I got it BYU.
• 7:26
  I do ring by spring or your money back.
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  And so yeah, we met October 4th and we were married December
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  28th. And I think it it's it sounds
• 7:39
  fast and it was fast, but also I think we'd known each other.
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  What was it? So in like 3 or 4 days and we
• 7:45
  were like, so hypothetically we. Were too.
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  Yeah, it was somewhere in those first couple weeks.
• 7:51
  Yeah, it. Was but we also like we hung out
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  basically 24/7. So it was we just collect from
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  the get go. Which also goes to show when you
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  know you know. And I know everyone always says
• 8:04
  that, but like, I feel like three months, like yes, maybe
• 8:07
  for someone for a standard timeline, it seems fast, but I
• 8:10
  also think there's people who date for 12 years who then
• 8:13
  split. So I feel like the timeline
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  aspect doesn't necessarily mean depth. 1000% and and that's what
• 8:20
  it was like, is it? It's so hard to explain.
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  We just knew. And as much as it sounds like a
• 8:28
  whirlwind romance, there was also a lot of, like, logic and
• 8:33
  thought that went into it because we had the same values.
• 8:38
  We had the same goals, we had the same things that we wanted
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  out of life. We were going down similar
• 8:45
  paths. And we were just kind of in
• 8:50
  lockstep from the second that we met.
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  And it's just kind of continued that way.
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  And so we were like, well, why wait?
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  We obviously know this is going to happen.
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  So we got married. And so that was December of
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  2019, which is important because three months later the world
• 9:08
  shut down. Yeah.
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  And so, yeah, we were Soren was doing summer sales.
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  And so we were going down to Dallas to to do that.
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  We ended up quarantined with my mom and dad for a month because
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  we couldn't get into our apartment yet down there because
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  of all the COVID stuff happening.
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  And that summer, I was really sick.
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  I was having some like hormonal issues and all kinds of things.
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  And I was just so sick. And so I was originally supposed
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  to do sales with him. I did for a little bit, but I
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  was so sick that I couldn't go out and knock doors.
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  And so I was sitting at home and I had these social media skills,
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  and I also knew how to build websites and do all of that.
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  And so I started just taking on a couple website clients and
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  then it kind of came full circle back because once they had the
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  website, they were like, oh, well, we need help driving
• 10:07
  traffic to this website. And I was like, wait, I know how
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  to do that. So I, I started taking on some
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  clients for social media and I changed my major from Polly Sci
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  software engineering. And Soren was like, why don't
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  you post on TikTok? Like you should get on TikTok
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  and just like talk about the stuff you know about marketing
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  and blogs and SEO, all the things.
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  And I was like, yeah, OK, So I started kind of posting like
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  just personal stuff for a couple months and I had a couple videos
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  like really pop off and go viral just like personal things.
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  And then I started posting the business and social media
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  content on TikTok. And within 30 days of starting
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  doing that, I had 100,000 followers on my TikTok account.
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  And it just, the business exploded.
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  And I at that time did not have the skills to build an agency.
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  And so I shifted from management to consulting, which was a a
• 11:14
  great decision. And it, it's been so fun.
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  We've worked with so many people and in this past, I want to say
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  like 6 months, it's been really fun because we've started to
• 11:25
  come back full circle and some of our higher level private
• 11:28
  clients, we've actually started doing management for and
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  building out that side of the business.
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  So it's just been kind of a whirlwind.
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  Yeah. And like when you guys were at
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  that point where obviously you're like, hey, like I know
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  how to do social. Do you guys remember this moment
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  where you went from like, I have a skill to I'm making a
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  business? Because I think that obviously
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  there's you often talk like, and I know you've mentioned before
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  in your marketing, like people should never sell something that
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  they haven't done. And so we always talk with this
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  idea of like, you know, someone who just wants to create
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  something to create something versus I have a skill.
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  So you have the skill and you know, social, you know,
• 12:05
  websites, where was that like point like soaring obviously was
• 12:09
  like, hey, TikTok, there's an opportunity here.
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  Like do you guys remember that conversation where you're like,
• 12:13
  wow, this is not just I'm posting on social media, like
• 12:15
  we're creating a company. Like, do you guys remember when
• 12:17
  that shift kind of happened? I know for me, the company was,
• 12:21
  had long been established by the time I figured out, I was like,
• 12:27
  oh, this is this is real. And I was like, man, people just
• 12:31
  keep paying me for this and, and they want to talk to me about
• 12:35
  this and, and they're paying to talk to me and they just keep
• 12:38
  coming and what I'm telling them is working.
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  I don't know, I guess I'm just going to keep doing this.
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  And it was crazy because, and someone, and I talk about this
• 12:49
  too sometimes, is that, oh, a lot of those early stages of
• 12:53
  business that a lot of people typically take more time to get
• 12:58
  through. Each of those stages was like a
• 13:01
  month for me. The like the first month we made
• 13:05
  like 999 or $9999. It was like almost 10,000 that
• 13:12
  like first month and it just kept like every single month was
• 13:15
  a new milestone. And so we blew through that so
• 13:19
  fast, which is part of why I'm even more so than I was then, so
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  passionate about marketing and content marketing and visibility
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  is because I know that if you can just get enough eyes on your
• 13:35
  business, you can figure out what to do with that.
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  And I believe very strongly, and This is why I focus so hard on
• 13:44
  the organic marketing, is that every person should be able to
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  gather the skills to market themselves and create that lead
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  flow for their business without having to work within this pay
• 13:58
  to play corporate landscape of, you know, raising capital and
• 14:04
  throwing it into ads and testing and all of that.
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  Because that's just not doable for the average person.
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  But it's a skill that anyone can learn.
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  And so that's why I think it's so important to share what we do
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  just because, yeah, I think people should be able to market
• 14:25
  themselves organically. And if you know how to do that
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  and you don't have to work within this pay to play system,
• 14:32
  you'll never go hungry so. Like I think like when people
• 14:35
  hear that journey, right, if you're like, I kind of like
• 14:37
  start this and then I hit a 10K month and obviously you guys
• 14:40
  like catapulted scaling after that.
• 14:43
  You mentioned obviously like you guys focused a lot on visibility
• 14:47
  and you focused on your content and your organic.
• 14:50
  And I think, like you said, there's a lot of people who
• 14:52
  maybe have slower growth. Maybe from your side, Soren,
• 14:55
  like what do you think were some of the things that allowed it to
• 14:58
  grow as fast as it did? Maybe things that you didn't
• 15:00
  even potentially focus on, Like we didn't look over here and
• 15:03
  that's why we were able to grow. Yeah, that's a great question.
• 15:07
  And it's kind of funny 'cause we're equating in this question,
• 15:10
  we're equating business growth to social media growth, which
• 15:14
  has aspects of truth, but isn't entirely true.
• 15:17
  We have clients with like 5000 followers who have done like
• 15:19
  3050 K months. You don't need a large following
• 15:23
  to like absolutely kill it and like the big differentiator.
• 15:27
  And we were talking about this before we started and you
• 15:29
  mentioned it when we started. You know, we're like this duo.
• 15:32
  I was like the mini director behind the camera when Kenda was
• 15:35
  blowing up. When I'm not the director behind
• 15:37
  the camera, Kenda's content usually doesn't do quite as
• 15:41
  well. I wish it wasn't that way, but
• 15:44
  when you have someone giving you instantaneous feedback, because
• 15:47
  usually what people do is they record their content, they post
• 15:50
  it, and then that's how they get feedback.
• 15:52
  And a lot of people don't understand what feedback they're
• 15:54
  actually getting. You know, you get 200 views,
• 15:55
  your hook is terrible, right? You look at the retention graph,
• 15:58
  it's a straight line down, right?
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  So getting like instantaneous feedback on what your content
• 16:03
  is, you know, just making sure you have a really good hook,
• 16:06
  making sure you're enunciating clearly.
• 16:08
  I'm terrible at that. It's why my content sucks.
• 16:10
  Part of it, you know, and then making sure you're just
• 16:14
  directing to the point. Often times people repeat
• 16:15
  themselves. And it's like those little
• 16:17
  technical things that allow for like when we're talking about
• 16:20
  like views like that exponential growth in views on social media
• 16:24
  versus, you know, when we're talking about business growth on
• 16:27
  social media, it's a lot more of like the messaging, which is
• 16:30
  something I struggle at more, can do as much better at that
• 16:33
  than I am, especially with, you know, other clients we've worked
• 16:37
  with. But yeah, because that's, you
• 16:39
  know, building that community, working on how you clearly
• 16:43
  communicate to people viewing your content and like what you
• 16:46
  do because a lot of people like we we've had clients like
• 16:48
  they'll post a video and they're like, I went viral and I'm like,
• 16:50
  great, what's your video about? And they're like, I was eating
• 16:51
  popcorn on the couch and I was talking about this new Netflix
• 16:54
  series. I'm like, OK.
• 16:56
  And that's related to your business.
• 16:57
  How so? You know, just again, being
• 17:04
  concise with messaging is what brings clients in, whether
• 17:07
  you're getting views or not too. So I think that's huge, right?
• 17:09
  Because I think that's a massive point is like most people are
• 17:12
  getting their feedback after it's already out.
• 17:14
  And so there's like this delay really in understanding the data
• 17:18
  of what worked or didn't work before you did it.
• 17:20
  And so for you guys, does that mean that at that stage you kind
• 17:23
  of were like in collaboration together for a lot of it?
• 17:25
  Like you were really talking about messaging together.
• 17:28
  Is the video good together, How to refine it together?
• 17:31
  It was kind of a collaborative effort.
• 17:33
  Oh, yeah, 100. I think that most of the
• 17:37
  concepts I think were things that I don't even want to say
• 17:40
  that I came up with. There are things that like would
• 17:43
  come into either of our minds just through us having a
• 17:46
  conversation about things. Yeah.
• 17:48
  And then he would kind of give me the hook to use the like, OG
• 17:54
  series that absolutely exploited the growing up around
• 17:56
  billionaire series. That was, that was Soren's idea,
• 18:00
  and he helped me with the pacing of the videos and the hook and
• 18:04
  then like making sure that we edited every single space out of
• 18:08
  them and all the technical things.
• 18:10
  And so, yeah, I think that instant feedback loop was
• 18:13
  massive. The other thing that I'll say
• 18:16
  that's like not as much of A technical thing, maybe a little
• 18:20
  bit more abstract, but I think, you know, the idea of like burn
• 18:24
  the ship's, commit to something, go all the way in.
• 18:28
  And I think we were able to do that because at that point we
• 18:34
  really had nothing to lose. And so, you know, we had a
• 18:39
  couple, $100 in our bank account, newly married in a 800
• 18:45
  square foot apartment. And, you know, we were like,
• 18:48
  worst case scenario, Soren goes back out and knocks some doors
• 18:52
  and make some sales. Yeah.
• 18:54
  And so for me, it was like, well, I'm going to start pouring
• 18:59
  my time into this. And we've never shared this
• 19:03
  story, but our very first, like, argument, I would call it, that
• 19:09
  we had when we got married and we'd only been married for,
• 19:12
  like, I don't know, 4, maybe five months.
• 19:16
  And the business was exploding and people were booking in these
• 19:21
  calls and I was focusing on marketing and doing all the
• 19:23
  things. But I was also still in school.
• 19:25
  And so at a certain point, I had to choose where I was going to
• 19:30
  put my time. And I just knew I just had a
• 19:33
  feeling and I just was pouring it into the business.
• 19:37
  And so I failed one of my classes that I was in and then
• 19:43
  ended up just like dropping the other however many mid semester
• 19:47
  and Soren was not impressed because.
• 19:51
  I'm livid is a better term. Yeah, livid.
• 19:56
  To be clear, to be clear, Soren. Was so mad 'cause I mean, you
• 20:01
  know, to be fair, at the time it was a lot of money and, you
• 20:04
  know, we were taking out like student loans to pay for that
• 20:07
  and so. He was like, you're failing
• 20:09
  these classes, like you're just not turning stuff in.
• 20:12
  You're just failing these classes that we're paying for.
• 20:14
  Like we don't have any money. And I'm like, wait, but there's
• 20:17
  I can, there's, it's over here. Like just give me a minute.
• 20:21
  And that was, yeah, that was our first fight.
• 20:26
  And did. You guys with the education
• 20:28
  piece, did you guys grow up being told that like education
• 20:32
  was the safety net? Like is that kind of soaring
• 20:33
  when you were like, we have to fulfill this commitment?
• 20:36
  Was it the money side for you or was it this like belief around
• 20:39
  what the education might have represented for her?
• 20:42
  Education wasn't presented as a safety net in my family, it was
• 20:46
  presented more of an opportunity.
• 20:48
  So neither of my parents finished college when they were
• 20:52
  young. My mom went back and finished
• 20:54
  college online and she attended like 3 different universities to
• 20:57
  end up being her degree. And my mom was terribly
• 21:00
  successful in IT. I say terribly successful
• 21:04
  because like, I mean, she was top of the ladder essentially in
• 21:08
  the town we were in. If she'd been in a bigger town,
• 21:10
  she would have been, you know, amazingly successful.
• 21:13
  I just say terribly because she was limited by where we.
• 21:15
  Live. She's currently building a
• 21:16
  company that's going to be a billion dollar company.
• 21:22
  Yeah, she can never market it. That's yeah.
• 21:24
  She'll start marketing. That's where you guys come in,
• 21:26
  that's where you. Get it?
• 21:27
  Yeah. We're trying to help her live
• 21:28
  it. Yeah.
• 21:29
  So it was presented more of an opportunity.
• 21:31
  I finished my degree while we were, you know, business had
• 21:34
  already crossed 7 figures, you know, for multiple years.
• 21:37
  And we drove back across the country.
• 21:40
  So I can finish my degree because she only have one of
• 21:43
  them. If I don't, she's going to kill
• 21:45
  me. Type 5.
• 21:46
  Got it. I was also funny enough, I was
• 21:49
  mad at Kenda. I'm also, I grew up on a farm.
• 21:54
  I will work 1618 hour a day as a novel.
• 21:58
  That's just the expectation. Like my dad when he was young,
• 22:02
  he was a logger highest mortality rate of almost any
• 22:05
  trade in the US and hardest people ever in in Southern
• 22:08
  Oregon. Like you walk up and down
• 22:09
  mountains. They're not tall, but they're
• 22:10
  steep and they're deadly. And, and you know, and then he
• 22:14
  farmed. He's farmed for the last. 35.
• 22:17
  Yeah, like, and if I decided to go farmer Ranch, like on my
• 22:21
  mom's side, I'd, I'd be like a 6th generation rancher.
• 22:23
  And funny fact about my mom's side of the family, they were
• 22:26
  pioneers in Oregon. It wasn't hard enough for them
• 22:29
  to walk across the country to Portland.
• 22:30
  Now they walked back into Oregon into like the John Day area.
• 22:34
  And then they would drive their cattle down the Columbia Gorge,
• 22:37
  you know, and let's just. Complicate the.
• 22:40
  Situation 'cause you know, just the track wasn't hard enough
• 22:42
  itself, but so like I'll work 24/7 kinda has a different
• 22:49
  temperament than I do so like I would go to school and then I'd
• 22:54
  like work on the business or do other things anyways.
• 22:57
  But her parents when we got married thought I was going to
• 23:01
  ruin Kenda and that she would drop out of college.
• 23:05
  And so part of the reason why I was frustrated about Kenda
• 23:10
  dropping out was because of what?
• 23:12
  Just I I'm a petty person just because of what her parents?
• 23:15
  Would say, yeah. So like, they can't be right.
• 23:16
  You have to go to school. Yeah, yeah.
• 23:19
  Yeah, yeah, Unfortunately Kendo won that argument, Yeah, but
• 23:22
  turns out it was all far the better so well.
• 23:25
  Your parents were pressed too, when I was gonna drop out and I
• 23:28
  made a deal with them. I was.
• 23:31
  Your dad was. Super, you know, my mom hoped he
• 23:32
  would finish. They were a little pressed, but
• 23:35
  it's funny, my parents were more supportive of her starting this
• 23:38
  business than, you know, they have been of me of a lot of
• 23:41
  things. Kind of not that my parents
• 23:42
  aren't supportive of me, but it was just really funny because
• 23:44
  they were like overly supportive of Canada I feel like with most
• 23:48
  things. Well, I made a deal with them.
• 23:50
  I was like, because they kept bringing up me finishing school
• 23:53
  and so I made a deal with them. I was like, OK, if I can get
• 23:57
  this business over $1,000,000 this year, I'll send you the
• 24:01
  receipts. Yeah.
• 24:03
  I don't want to hear another word about college ever again.
• 24:06
  And they were like, OK, and we did it.
• 24:09
  And I sent them the Stripe screenshot.
• 24:11
  Like Evan said a word about college they've never seen.
• 24:14
  Now my mom, she continued to beat me.
• 24:17
  I guess I should have put my name on that document, but you
• 24:20
  know, yeah, you. Should have.
• 24:22
  Gotten in on the agreement. But well, like in this phase,
• 24:25
  you guys are building this massive business.
• 24:27
  You're both in the process of finishing school to like keep
• 24:30
  your commitments to whoever you were trying to arrange them
• 24:32
  with. And I guess my curiosity is
• 24:35
  like, as you said, kind of like at that moment, you guys didn't
• 24:38
  have a lot of financial backing to you.
• 24:40
  It seems like people emotionally supported you, obviously, but
• 24:42
  they weren't necessarily financially supporting you guys
• 24:45
  building this business. And I'm wondering like obviously
• 24:47
  you had, and so you made a really good point, a lot of yes,
• 24:50
  social growth, but the business growth too.
• 24:54
  Do you feel like when you guys kind of quote UN quote blew up
• 24:56
  where you had this initial momentum from social but also
• 24:58
  from, you know, sales? Do you feel like that was from
• 25:02
  this aspect of like scrappiness? It's like the two of you, we've
• 25:05
  got nothing to lose. Like how much of that growth do
• 25:07
  you think was the scrappiness and the hustle?
• 25:11
  Or to your point of feedback, do you think it really was like we
• 25:14
  were super strategic? Because I know some people
• 25:16
  wonder at the beginning they're trying to really scale or
• 25:18
  they're trying to really like, you know, have massive growth.
• 25:21
  Is it about speed? And is it about scrappy?
• 25:23
  Or is it about like being really intentional about every single
• 25:26
  step and having this plan and being like super intricate
• 25:29
  about, you know, the individual pieces?
• 25:31
  And like for you guys, which do you think or maybe both that you
• 25:35
  saw really contributed to that massive surge of growth both on
• 25:38
  social and in sales? So we both share strategic and
• 25:41
  scrappy. It's a mix.
• 25:43
  Kenda is in the moment and this has to be perfect before we
• 25:46
  launch it. Type of a person, person medium,
• 25:48
  like in a couple of months, she's scrappier than I am And
• 25:51
  but then like long term, I'm more of the strategic thinker.
• 25:54
  I I knew I always wanted to start a business.
• 25:58
  I was always told that like that was kind of like the way to
• 26:01
  financial freedom, work for yourself, blah, blah, blah,
• 26:04
  blah, blah. But.
• 26:05
  I didn't want to have a business also like when we were dating.
• 26:09
  OK. Yeah, no, literally.
• 26:11
  Well, because I knew what was required.
• 26:15
  I grew up watching people run billion dollar businesses,
• 26:18
  literally family, friends. I knew exactly what it took to
• 26:25
  build a team and to build an organization and what type of
• 26:30
  hours and demand was is going to be put on you.
• 26:34
  And I remember this very distinctly.
• 26:37
  I don't know if someone remembers this, but we were in
• 26:40
  the car one night. I think we'd known each other so
• 26:43
  like like 2 weeks. So we were probably engaged and
• 26:48
  I, I don't remember at what point, but we were, we were at
• 26:50
  least dating. And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna,
• 26:53
  I'm gonna go to law school. And, and he was like, well,
• 26:55
  would you ever wanna like start a law firm?
• 26:58
  And I was like, no, absolutely not.
• 27:00
  I would never like, I might want to be partner, maybe equity
• 27:03
  partner in a firm, but I would never want to start a business.
• 27:06
  I would never want to have that responsibility and have to
• 27:09
  market myself and bring in clients of my own.
• 27:12
  I would never, ever want to do that.
• 27:15
  And in a lot of ways, I feel like when that initial momentum
• 27:24
  started, and I don't know if Soren felt the same way cuz I
• 27:27
  don't know if we ever really talked about it, but like I kind
• 27:31
  of in those first probably six months in my head, I was just
• 27:37
  thinking, let's make as much as we can right now for as long as
• 27:41
  this lasts. And then we'll just invest in
• 27:44
  real estate and we'll be fine. So.
• 27:48
  And then obviously it's also done real estate, but it's also
• 27:50
  done a lot of other things. So you guys obviously have, if
• 27:55
  we Fast forward, you have this incredible Business Today.
• 27:59
  And with this, you also have, which I think is something that
• 28:01
  a lot of people have seen with your brand.
• 28:03
  You have a lot of visibility. And with that, I know that
• 28:07
  there's a lot of amazing pieces to that.
• 28:09
  You get a lot of people who know your brand, who know your name.
• 28:12
  There's a lot of sales benefits to it.
• 28:13
  There's a lot of upside. But I'm wondering like with
• 28:16
  that, did you guys ever see or feel a downside to the
• 28:19
  visibility? Like I feel like everybody, you
• 28:21
  know, to your point, sort of like I went viral and it's like
• 28:23
  everyone's desire is to be seen by the world.
• 28:26
  But like when that actually happened for you guys and you
• 28:29
  said, I think you said it happened in 30 days, which is
• 28:31
  insane. So you go from some people know
• 28:33
  me on the Internet to tons of people on the Internet know who
• 28:36
  I am within 30 days. Like, was there anything maybe
• 28:39
  that most people didn't see or maybe don't really understand
• 28:42
  about what that actually looked like to have that happen so
• 28:45
  fast? Well, I think there's a few
• 28:48
  things that come up for me. The 1st is that, of course
• 28:54
  there's the hate comments and the negativity, and it's very
• 28:59
  overwhelming and unnatural to have so many people who know who
• 29:04
  you are and who have an opinion about you and think they know
• 29:10
  you from a single comment or a single message or screenshot or
• 29:17
  a post that you made on your social media.
• 29:20
  And I think for me, in the beginning, it triggered a lot
• 29:25
  of, I think emotions that I hadn't necessarily dealt with.
• 29:30
  I was bullied a lot in school just, I mean, that's what
• 29:33
  happens when you have one eye and you're a child in elementary
• 29:37
  school. Kids are cruel.
• 29:39
  And so the, the negative comments, what I, what I noticed
• 29:44
  was that the ones that really got to me were the ones that in
• 29:47
  a way confirmed things that I already thought about myself.
• 29:51
  And so everyone always says like entrepreneurship is this like
• 29:55
  personal development journey that you're never prepared for
• 29:58
  and really didn't know who you were signing up for.
• 30:01
  And so I had to work through a lot of those things and realize
• 30:05
  like that I had to get to a point where I no longer require
• 30:11
  people to like me, the people who don't.
• 30:16
  I've decided that I would be a little insulted if they did.
• 30:20
  And so that was one. The second thing was with such
• 30:25
  explosive growth, you're watching Stripe and you're
• 30:29
  watching your analytics and they're just green and up and to
• 30:32
  the left. What no one talks about is what
• 30:36
  happens that first month that you slow down or you don't make
• 30:41
  as many sales or you're sick for a couple of weeks.
• 30:45
  So you can't take sales calls or you can't create content.
• 30:47
  And at the same time as there's so much excitement because
• 30:52
  you're growing, the second there's a tiny downturn, you're
• 30:58
  just crushed. And so I think the anxiety that
• 31:04
  came with it, I wasn't prepared for it all.
• 31:07
  Because when you're watching Stripe double every month and
• 31:12
  then it starts to flat line, you start to feel like you've done
• 31:16
  something wrong or that maybe you lost your touch or that
• 31:20
  you're not good enough to make it.
• 31:23
  And with time, you realize that businesses plateau.
• 31:27
  That's what happens. And then you have to make shifts
• 31:30
  and adjustments to remove what's blocking you to get to the next
• 31:33
  level. And that's just part of it.
• 31:35
  That's what it is. But in the beginning, it's
• 31:38
  incredibly jarring, and I know Soren will have thoughts and
• 31:42
  feelings about this. The final thing was that was, I
• 31:46
  guess kind of whiplash is you reach a certain threshold of
• 31:51
  success and you start to feel like everyone around you has
• 31:57
  their hand out. And so you kind of, you become
• 32:02
  very defensive in a way because it seems as though everyone's
• 32:09
  trying to get something from you.
• 32:11
  Friends from high school are reaching out asking for a job,
• 32:13
  people are asking for money. It, it's just, it kind of can
• 32:18
  spiral out of control in a way. And on some level I knew that
• 32:23
  already, but it was jarring to see it with people that I knew
• 32:27
  and people that were closer to me.
• 32:30
  It it was really disconcerting to observe it actually kind of
• 32:35
  come to fruition in that way. Well, and I see that even in the
• 32:38
  business space too, like I, I know I have a lot of people that
• 32:42
  I know or that I've worked with in the past who have these huge
• 32:44
  names. And they'll find that even, you
• 32:46
  know, mentors they hire, peers they work with, agencies they
• 32:49
  hire, will leverage their name as a way to grow or expand even
• 32:54
  their own business. And they start to wonder, OK,
• 32:57
  well, does this person care about me because I'm an account
• 32:58
  or because I'm a name or a brand or because they actually care
• 33:01
  about me and care about my business?
• 33:02
  And so I think like it, it's hard, like you said, because now
• 33:05
  you're like so exposed and you wonder like, who can I trust?
• 33:08
  And does this person really care about me?
• 33:10
  Or is it because there's some other hidden agenda, right.
• 33:12
  So I, I so resonate with that. It's a lot of conversations I
• 33:15
  have with people behind the scenes and like soaring for you,
• 33:19
  what did that look like from your perspective when you guys
• 33:21
  were growing so massively? Like maybe things that people
• 33:24
  outside of these huge like accolades and numbers and like
• 33:27
  bulletins and screenshots that they really kind of didn't see
• 33:30
  that you were able to to see from behind the curtain.
• 33:33
  Yeah, I'll just give a different perspective.
• 33:35
  The people I used to work with. Yeah, Kendall's going to love
• 33:40
  this. It's so funny.
• 33:42
  So it was a direct sales organization, like door to door.
• 33:48
  And like I made good money for college doing it.
• 33:50
  They had make good money and they're very entrepreneurial
• 33:53
  real estate. They want you to succeed until
• 33:56
  you want to leave. Yeah.
• 34:00
  Yeah. And when we left, it was really
• 34:01
  funny. It was like my birthday and I
• 34:03
  got a text and we'd actually hired one of the guys to come do
• 34:05
  sales for us. And he was, like doing pretty
• 34:06
  good. He wasn't like the best sales
• 34:07
  guy even there. I just thought he might be
• 34:09
  better at this. He was really good at
• 34:11
  recruiting, not good at sales. And, you know, anyways, he
• 34:14
  texted me. He was like, man, no one
• 34:16
  believes you guys are doing what you're doing.
• 34:17
  But I just wanted to let you know that, you know, I stood up
• 34:20
  for you guys. And it was so funny because at
• 34:22
  the same time, like it was like my birthday and I was like all
• 34:25
  these guys that I thought were my friends, I just got told that
• 34:28
  they didn't believe in me and that they didn't believe what we
• 34:31
  were doing. And like all of this other
• 34:33
  stuff. And like, it's just funny
• 34:35
  because like you just kind of have to remember like people
• 34:38
  want you to do well, just not better than them.
• 34:41
  And people are going to act in their own self-interest, right?
• 34:44
  And if you remember those two things and keep those
• 34:47
  expectations in line, anything better you'll be happy with,
• 34:51
  right? And anything worse, like you'll
• 34:53
  be expecting. So that's just kind of like how
• 34:56
  I treat it. I don't try and control things
• 34:59
  that I can't control. And I just try and, you know,
• 35:03
  take a very pragmatic approach to like when people want a job
• 35:08
  or when people ask for something, you know, so.
• 35:12
  And like in this, obviously with massive growth like that,
• 35:15
  there's as you guys were saying, like there's a stretch of your
• 35:18
  friend circle, there's a stretch of like, OK, like who can I
• 35:20
  trust? Now?
• 35:21
  There's a stretch of your own identity.
• 35:22
  Like you're saying kind of like the bank accounts are going up
• 35:26
  and then they're down, but then they're up again.
• 35:27
  And it's kind of like you're riding this roller coaster.
• 35:30
  That's like the there's an emotional mindset piece there.
• 35:33
  And then I'm also wondering strategy wise, like everyone
• 35:36
  wants to blow up, but also we want to recognize like if you
• 35:39
  had five people in your coffee shop and then tomorrow I'm going
• 35:41
  to give you 50,000. While it sounds nice
• 35:44
  hypothetically, I'm wondering like strategically, how did you
• 35:49
  guys like brace for impact because and, and do you think
• 35:52
  that, you know, maybe was there a downside to growing too fast?
• 35:55
  Do you think that that's possible to grow too fast?
• 35:57
  Because I think everybody and their mom on the Internet wants
• 36:01
  to 4X5X6X their business, right? And it seems really sexy to do
• 36:05
  that. But obviously we all know what
• 36:08
  happens behind the curtain in order to really sustain and kind
• 36:11
  of like be able to handle the load of that level of business.
• 36:14
  So like you guys, you know, grow your socials and then you know,
• 36:19
  right after that you're seeing the business start to kind of
• 36:21
  follow suit. How did you guys brace for
• 36:23
  impact strategically? Like back end structure wise to
• 36:26
  be like, holy crap, we've got sales calls, we've got inquiries
• 36:29
  about people closing. Like how do we navigate this
• 36:32
  when it kind of feels like it probably happened overnight?
• 36:35
  I think well, you and I were on the phone one day and this is
• 36:40
  always stucked with me and I asked my own clients this to
• 36:42
  this day. You asked me if if the business
• 36:46
  were to double tomorrow, what would break and I rattled off my
• 36:50
  list and I've started. There's a really great book.
• 36:55
  I love it. Soren's going to roll his eyes.
• 36:57
  It's called the road less stupid.
• 37:00
  It's a really good book and he, he suggests that you do I, I
• 37:06
  think he says daily, but I, I sit down like once a week for my
• 37:10
  thinking time. And that is one of the things
• 37:14
  that I think on is if everything were to double tomorrow, what
• 37:20
  would break? And I work towards adjusting
• 37:25
  those things. And so that was great insight to
• 37:29
  have very early on. The other thing is like you can
• 37:33
  scale delivery if you can find somebody who understands how to
• 37:37
  build a decent system. Like that's usually not the
• 37:41
  hardest piece. I think the hardest piece is the
• 37:44
  team. Yeah. 100% And so hiring the
• 37:51
  right people, training, consistently developing,
• 37:55
  managing and learning to switch from giving people A to do list
• 38:03
  to instead giving them responsibility.
• 38:06
  That's a really hard shift and it's necessary to be able to
• 38:12
  scale. And I'll let someone talk about
• 38:14
  some of the mistakes we made with the team.
• 38:16
  But one of the big things that most people aren't prepared for
• 38:20
  is like they'll get a burst of leads if they do go viral.
• 38:25
  And then their sales actually drop because what happens is
• 38:30
  they start booking too far out on their calendars and then
• 38:33
  they're no shows go way up and then they're like, why am I
• 38:37
  making no money? What's going on?
• 38:40
  And their system just kind of gets overrun.
• 38:43
  And so, you know, for a lot of people, it's actually better to
• 38:47
  get less leads that are more qualified and refine your sales
• 38:52
  process than it is to have that burst of virality because most
• 38:57
  people are not equipped to handle it.
• 39:04
  And even now sometimes, like when we have a video go viral,
• 39:08
  kind of like, OK, guys, batten down the hatches, like here we
• 39:11
  go. Because it Will Rock the boat it
• 39:15
  it really does. And you'd think, oh, look at all
• 39:18
  these leads, which is great, but there's just so many things that
• 39:23
  are liable to break within that process.
• 39:27
  And then, yeah, I think with that huge visibility and
• 39:32
  bringing on just like such an influx of clients, we then had
• 39:35
  to hire for delivery and Soren has lots of feelings about that.
• 39:42
  Would you like to share some of your?
• 39:44
  Thoughts. Yeah, I think the whole thing
• 39:45
  they always say right is like it's always it's you want to
• 39:48
  replace yourself. But also doing that is easier
• 39:50
  said than done because at least for me or for a lot of
• 39:54
  businesses that I've worked with, when you're in the earlier
• 39:56
  stages of business, you might not have the financial resources
• 40:00
  yet to hire a quote UN quote, specialist, right?
• 40:03
  So like to your point, maybe you have all these leads, but then
• 40:07
  let's just say you want to bring in a closer.
• 40:08
  You're like, well, do we want to give away 20% of or 10/15/20
• 40:12
  percent of our overall sales to this closer potentially?
• 40:16
  See, there's this aspect when you're like, I need to bring in
• 40:18
  team because I have so much demand.
• 40:20
  But also doing so means that to bring in someone good, they're
• 40:23
  probably going to ask a certain level of compensation.
• 40:26
  And so I think most people go, OK, well, let's just like spend
• 40:29
  less and we'll train them up. But with that, obviously, as you
• 40:34
  guys know, there's a lot of experiences that go with having
• 40:37
  to be in that phase before you have all the cash flow to bring
• 40:40
  in. That was like really top
• 40:41
  performers of those those high level people.
• 40:43
  So like soaring when it came to, you know, management and
• 40:46
  leadership and hiring kind of I guess like team evolution, what
• 40:50
  were maybe some of the lessons you guys learned when it came to
• 40:53
  the team side and building up like the team that could sustain
• 40:56
  like the level of business you guys knew was going to happen?
• 40:58
  Yeah, great question. You know, there's a lot of
• 41:01
  theory out there. We definitely tried to do our
• 41:03
  best. I feel like this is something
• 41:04
  we're not overly skilled at. I think we're getting better at
• 41:09
  it. I think it's one of the hardest
• 41:12
  things to do because there's a lot of aspects that go into it
• 41:16
  between like communication, training, all of that.
• 41:19
  My really hot takes, though, are like, you know, you probably
• 41:23
  shouldn't automate anything unless you've been doing it for
• 41:24
  three months because entrepreneurs basically all have
• 41:28
  ADHD and bring stuff 24/7, you know?
• 41:31
  Yeah. And then I think the other thing
• 41:35
  when it comes to it, I mean, I think most businesses like, you
• 41:39
  know, agencies, you'll probably cap yourself out, you know, if
• 41:42
  you have good processes and as long as you're charging, we'll
• 41:46
  call it fair market value, right?
• 41:48
  You know, I think you can do 50K on that.
• 41:50
  A lot of like if you're doing information or consulting, you
• 41:52
  can push 100K months with that. And that, you know, the key
• 41:57
  thing is getting your pricing to the point where you can have
• 42:00
  enough margin where you can comfortably hire that first
• 42:03
  person. And it's like, who do you hire
• 42:05
  first? Most of the time?
• 42:07
  It's probably either you know, we often recommend to clients as
• 42:11
  either an executive assistant. Or.
• 42:14
  The closer usually the closer depending on what your lead flow
• 42:18
  is and what your price point is and all of that, that is going
• 42:21
  to get you the most time back. And The funny thing is, is
• 42:26
  there's people out there that say, oh, the founder should, you
• 42:29
  know, do sales calls because it's what makes the most money
• 42:31
  is directly typed revenue. Da, da, da, da, da.
• 42:33
  And I'm like, yes, but how many founders have you met?
• 42:38
  Again, successful ones slightly different, but how many ones
• 42:41
  have you met that are really good at sales?
• 42:44
  True. The successful ones, they end up
• 42:46
  being good at sales no matter what.
• 42:47
  Like it just you have at a certain point you have to learn
• 42:51
  the skill just about no matter what business you're in.
• 42:54
  Issue being is in the beginning. If you have time and the skill
• 42:58
  set to learn that issue or do you already have the skill set?
• 43:00
  And like if you have a sales background, you know, makes it
• 43:02
  easier. But for most people, they don't
• 43:04
  have a sales background. And if you're taking 20 sales
• 43:06
  calls a week, you know, that's 80 hours or two work weeks.
• 43:09
  You're going to get back a month by hiring a closer and giving,
• 43:11
  you know, 1015% of your revenue depending on what your price
• 43:14
  point is. All depends on what the OD or on
• 43:16
  track earnings are, right? But it's like biggest, biggest
• 43:19
  pulling point. Next would be, you know, the EA
• 43:21
  that can help with fulfillment, right?
• 43:23
  Or help with marketing or, you know, whatever it is, but you're
• 43:26
  looking for that lever that can pull you back the most time.
• 43:28
  So you can either dump that time back into marketing or sales and
• 43:31
  make up for, you know, whatever you're putting out the door in
• 43:34
  payroll and growth. So.
• 43:36
  Yeah. And a lot of this just comes
• 43:38
  back to knowing your numbers, How much does it cost for you to
• 43:44
  acquire a customer and that includes your time, like how
• 43:47
  much would you be making per hour?
• 43:49
  How much time are you going to have to put into marketing to
• 43:51
  acquire that customer to then close the sale?
• 43:53
  And often times if you are able to remove yourself from the
• 43:59
  sales process, your acquisition cost actually goes down because
• 44:06
  you can spend more time doing other things that are going to
• 44:09
  be higher revenue tasks, which is great.
• 44:13
  You, you just have to understand what those what those margins
• 44:16
  are. The other thing is that people,
• 44:19
  and I feel like this is such an abstract concept to try and
• 44:22
  explain, but you're gonna know exactly what I mean.
• 44:24
  People will bring people on for these roles in the beginning and
• 44:28
  instead of delegating, they abdicate.
• 44:31
  And so they're like, here, this is your problem now.
• 44:34
  And it happens with sales. And the other big hire is people
• 44:38
  are like, oh, I'm just going to hire a social media manager and
• 44:41
  then my leaf flow will stay the same and I can do all this other
• 44:44
  stuff wrong. That's wrong.
• 44:47
  A social media manager manages social media.
• 44:50
  They're not ACMO. Those are two different things.
• 44:54
  And so then people hire people and then panic when their
• 44:59
  revenue starts to drop and it's because they hold themselves too
• 45:04
  far out and they just handed it off.
• 45:06
  Same thing with sales. People hire a closer and then
• 45:09
  they're like, well, that's it. They're going to go make sales
• 45:11
  for me. You're going to have to do the
• 45:13
  development with that person. You're going to need to hold
• 45:15
  them accountable. You're going to need to need to
• 45:17
  make sure that they're updating the pipeline.
• 45:20
  You're going to be reviewing calls, you're going to be doing
• 45:22
  sales meetings. And so I think the hardest thing
• 45:25
  for people to wrap their head around as they scale is the
• 45:29
  different role that you move into.
• 45:31
  And everyone says, oh, well, you become ACEO.
• 45:34
  You really don't become ACEO until you have a team of like 5
• 45:39
  to 9. Yeah.
• 45:41
  When you are making those first like one to five hires, you're a
• 45:46
  trainer and then you're a manager and then you can become
• 45:51
  ACEO after your team gets a little bit bigger and that's
• 45:55
  where you step into those visionary tasks.
• 45:57
  But for most people, and everyone's like, oh, I'm the
• 46:02
  CEO. Yeah.
• 46:05
  More accurately, you're probably the COO, and I think if more
• 46:11
  people could just wrap their head around that, it would be
• 46:15
  smoother sailing for people. Well, maybe on that for you
• 46:19
  guys, like I know, you know, it's a buzzword, right?
• 46:21
  Everyone in in the marketing space, business space loves to
• 46:25
  throw out that term. If you guys were going to work
• 46:27
  with a scaling client or if someone's listening right now
• 46:29
  and it's like here's kind of how you've known you're really in
• 46:32
  your actual CEO operating type of identity behavior or that
• 46:37
  seat is really where you're operating from right now for you
• 46:41
  guys. What does that look like or what
• 46:43
  does that mean to you guys? Maybe even as a bumper lane to
• 46:44
  be like, hey, we're staying in the spot where we're most
• 46:46
  leverageable right now. So Soren and I have kind of gone
• 46:50
  back and forth and we kind of tag team different areas of the
• 46:54
  business that make the most sense just based on our
• 46:58
  strengths. If you've ever read the book
• 47:00
  Rocket Fuel Sorens more of the visionary and I'm more of the
• 47:06
  integrator. And so when someone tells me
• 47:11
  what to do, I, I just kind of or like what, what the vision is
• 47:16
  like, what the goal is. I just kind of intuitively know
• 47:20
  what's going to get us there. Yes, I look at the numbers of
• 47:23
  the business and all the things, but I just know I'm like, OK,
• 47:27
  this is the thing. That's that's the blocker.
• 47:30
  Yeah. And so for us, what we've had to
• 47:34
  kind of balance is I'm the face of the brand.
• 47:39
  And so when I say something whether it should or shouldn't,
• 47:43
  it tends to carry a little bit more weight with people, be it
• 47:47
  clients, team, whatever. And so we've had to kind of be
• 47:52
  more strategic with the roles that we're both filling.
• 47:56
  And for a long time, I mentally would have placed myself in the
• 48:00
  CEO role. But I think with the way that we
• 48:04
  actually manage things now, I think Soren's actually more of
• 48:08
  the CEO and I would consider myself more of the CEO because
• 48:13
  I'm the one that's like, if we if we need a system, typically
• 48:17
  I'm building it. If we're mapping out, you know,
• 48:20
  kind of a strategy, then I'm like, OK, this is how I think we
• 48:22
  should do this thing. He also does some of that.
• 48:25
  It just kind of varies with where we work in the business.
• 48:30
  But I think that when you're like truly being ACEO, other
• 48:35
  people are solving problems and bringing it to you to then make
• 48:42
  a final decision and or the problems that they can't solve
• 48:46
  are rolling up to you, right? If you're in that position, then
• 48:50
  I would say you're more of ACEO. If you are telling people
• 48:55
  exactly what to do and you're still adding individual tasks
• 48:58
  for every single person and you're doing the strategy and
• 49:01
  you're doing, even if you're managing a lot of people, I'd
• 49:06
  still put you more in that like operational role, not
• 49:09
  necessarily ACEO. And The thing is also everyone
• 49:12
  wants to be the CEO, so they can call themselves that.
• 49:16
  You're the founder. That's in my head.
• 49:20
  Like that's enough of a title. And so then put yourself in the
• 49:24
  organization where it makes the most sense and where you are
• 49:29
  going to be able to give yourself the most leverage.
• 49:32
  And so for us, like Soren is really, really good at
• 49:38
  explaining things to clients, distilling pretty complex
• 49:41
  information down into something simple that they can implement.
• 49:45
  He's really good at like managing them and moving them
• 49:49
  forward and showing them based off of, you know, here's the
• 49:52
  numbers, here's the data, here's what it's telling us, go do
• 49:54
  this. And so that's where he really
• 49:59
  thrives. And so he's more so involved in
• 50:02
  and over the client delivery and support and that area of the
• 50:07
  business for me where I thrive. And what I'm good at is the
• 50:12
  marketing and the specifically the psychology piece.
• 50:16
  And so I write content, I script content, I write emails, I work
• 50:22
  with Sasha on setting strategy. And so yeah, I'm kind of a
• 50:27
  hybrid between like OPS and marketing.
• 50:32
  And then I'd say Soren's more of the CEO and also like head of
• 50:37
  client success. And so it's like.
• 50:39
  Really like understanding the the traits or the values that
• 50:41
  you have or the skills that you have.
• 50:43
  And then I think it's really like based off what you're
• 50:45
  saying, the title that you guys feel those are most applicable
• 50:48
  to and then try to stay in that bucket to not have to be all
• 50:51
  things in all places. And you mentioned obviously
• 50:55
  because you guys have hired and and developed team.
• 50:57
  And I'm curious when you think about those skills, you think
• 50:59
  about those aspects for you, do you guys then as a result, when
• 51:03
  you're building your team and maybe even for the people you've
• 51:06
  hired in the past, the people who work for you now, when you
• 51:08
  hire them, are you hiring off the person or are you hiring off
• 51:11
  the position? Meaning like the ability to do,
• 51:14
  IE the skills and you know that the qualifications, if you will.
• 51:19
  Or are you guys of the mindset where like the person, IE their
• 51:22
  personality, their values, things like that are more of a
• 51:25
  an influencing factor for you guys that you can kind of have
• 51:28
  the team be equal or be balanced?
• 51:31
  It's a little bit of both for me when I'm specifically looking to
• 51:35
  and it changes a little bit from position to position, but I'm
• 51:38
  looking at culture, values, then skills.
• 51:44
  Most skills can be taught. If it's a position where it's
• 51:48
  something that I haven't done, then I'm obviously going to put
• 51:52
  more emphasis on skills. But if somebody is the the best
• 51:58
  closer in the world, but they're an asshole to the team, yeah, I
• 52:02
  can't do anything with that. And so it's primarily about the
• 52:08
  person. And it's not just their
• 52:11
  personality and those things that a lot of people talk about
• 52:14
  and throw around. It comes back to their values,
• 52:18
  their integrity, and their care for our mission and what we're
• 52:24
  doing above all else. I need someone who genuinely
• 52:30
  cares about what we're doing and genuinely cares about the
• 52:32
  clients. Even if they're a marketing hire
• 52:35
  a video editor. I need someone who's going to
• 52:38
  genuinely care about the clients because even in like taking that
• 52:43
  example of a video editor, right, yes, there needs to be a
• 52:47
  certain level of technical skill.
• 52:49
  I also need them to care deeply about editing and creating
• 52:54
  content in a way that's going to truly be of service to our
• 52:59
  audience, right? And is going to communicate what
• 53:02
  they need. And so even for a super
• 53:07
  technical position like that, it's, it always comes back to
• 53:10
  service. It always comes back to serving
• 53:12
  the clients and serving our audience.
• 53:15
  And what I've found is that any business that comes from a
• 53:22
  position of service is going to make an impact and where a
• 53:28
  positive impact is revenue follows.
• 53:32
  And so with taking that frame on it, I apply that to hiring, I
• 53:37
  apply that to marketing. I apply that to the way that we
• 53:41
  build our systems. I apply that to our onboarding
• 53:44
  and offboarding process. I apply that to our delivery
• 53:47
  process. And so it's just about them and
• 53:53
  getting them the result that they want because ultimately, if
• 53:58
  we're not able to produce that, we don't have a business.
• 54:03
  And so that's always my #1. Well, I know you guys are like
• 54:07
  everyone knows you for the theme of what you guys talk about,
• 54:10
  which is marketing. You're definitely complete
• 54:12
  ninjas at marketing. And I know from that, as you
• 54:16
  just said, like there's an aspect of service which is for
• 54:18
  you guys, when you've scaled, even with the emphasis on
• 54:21
  marketing, how much of your scaling would you say has come
• 54:24
  from acquisition versus retention?
• 54:26
  Oh geez, we're like. Like which?
• 54:29
  Which I guess do you think has contributed?
• 54:31
  Oh, it's like 95 percent, 90% acquisition probably.
• 54:36
  We're so like for the first three years we didn't even try
• 54:40
  and retain. Yeah, like we were, we were
• 54:43
  like, here's your stuff, Go do it.
• 54:45
  And they're like, great, this is amazing.
• 54:47
  We're like, bye. Like have such a nice life.
• 54:51
  Yeah, we. Yeah, we didn't even try.
• 54:53
  We were just like, we hated money, apparently.
• 54:56
  And we're like. Which just goes to show that the
• 54:59
  level of skill that you guys have at marketing, because you
• 55:02
  know, a lot of people sometimes we'll have, you know, as you
• 55:04
  were saying earlier with with lead flow, they may have like a
• 55:07
  small pool of leads, but then they really have to leverage
• 55:10
  retention to grow. And so to me, what I take from
• 55:13
  that is it just goes to show the level of skill that you guys
• 55:15
  have when it comes to marketing to have that level of lead flow
• 55:18
  to be like, we're going to continue.
• 55:20
  Even if you were saying sorry for the first couple years, it
• 55:22
  wasn't even we have capacity to focus on it.
• 55:24
  The marketing still was bringing in so many people.
• 55:27
  And so everyone's dream obviously is to have boatloads
• 55:32
  of leads, so many that you just don't know what to do with,
• 55:34
  right? And you guys talk about
• 55:35
  neuromarketing and I think for the person listening, they may
• 55:37
  be like, what the heck is that? What does that mean?
• 55:40
  How does that work into the ecosystem of their marketing and
• 55:43
  their business? So can you guys explain like
• 55:45
  what is neuromarketing and with that, why has that been so
• 55:50
  influential for you guys when it comes to marketing for you, for
• 55:52
  clients? Kind of like how does that work
• 55:54
  in the ecosystem if someone wants to scale their business?
• 55:57
  OK, I'm so deeply passionate about this.
• 55:59
  OK, she's like, let's go. OK, that's that's I mean, that's
• 56:04
  the why is because I love it so much and I'm so interested in it
• 56:08
  and it just lights me up to talk about it.
• 56:11
  So with, and even even coming back to that, the original point
• 56:16
  is like the, the lead flow versus retention is like you can
• 56:21
  get very far without attempting to retain.
• 56:24
  However, the the next level comes from retention.
• 56:29
  And so that's where like building out the rest of your
• 56:33
  offer suite so that you actually have a place for people to go is
• 56:38
  going to be so, so key. And I actually think that that
• 56:43
  there's a level of continuity with the newer marketing all the
• 56:46
  way through to retention, because in simplest form, you're
• 56:52
  only attracting people who truly need the thing that you're
• 56:56
  offering. And so you eliminate a lot of
• 57:01
  the tire kickers and the people who aren't a fit and the people
• 57:04
  who aren't going to get results and the people who aren't going
• 57:07
  to retain upfront you, you filter those people out before
• 57:11
  you even sign them. And so essentially
• 57:15
  neuromarketing researchers have done a lot of brain imaging with
• 57:20
  FM RIS and EE GS to see how our brains react to certain stimuli.
• 57:26
  And so they, they've done a bunch of studies.
• 57:29
  One of the very notable ones was they showed packaging and
• 57:34
  marketing material of different cigarette companies and they
• 57:38
  asked the people a series of questions about, you know, does
• 57:42
  this packaging make you more or less likely to buy this thing?
• 57:45
  And, and all of these different polling questions.
• 57:49
  They then scanned their brains when showing them and exposing
• 57:55
  them to the stimuli. And what they found was that
• 57:58
  people have no idea why they do the things that they do.
• 58:01
  And when they're shown a cigarette package with imaging
• 58:06
  of a lung that's decaying, they go, oh, yes, of course I would
• 58:11
  be less likely to buy that. Their brains going Ding, Ding,
• 58:14
  Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, give that to me, Give that to me.
• 58:16
  And so they're not even consciously aware of the things
• 58:20
  that are driving them to make decisions.
• 58:23
  And So what they've been able to assess is essentially when
• 58:30
  certain stimuli is introduced, so certain marketing material or
• 58:35
  branding or things like that, what does it actually do in the
• 58:39
  brain? How does the brain light up and
• 58:41
  how does it react? And so taking that information
• 58:46
  and understanding of the neuroscience, I took it upon
• 58:50
  myself to I'm a big reader, but this was kind of an undertaking
• 58:55
  even for me. I started diving into textbooks,
• 59:00
  neuroscience, psychology, because what I found
• 59:05
  overwhelmingly to be true is that the books about sales
• 59:10
  psychology and psychology as applied to marketing, they're
• 59:14
  one, very surface level. And two, they are applied to
• 59:22
  older styles of marketing. When you're reading these books,
• 59:26
  they're talking about a campaign that they did with a billboard.
• 59:29
  They're not relating it to content at all.
• 59:34
  And So what I did was I went through all of these books that
• 59:38
  initially kind of sparked my interest and I was like, OK,
• 59:42
  these are the things about the brain that I really need to
• 59:45
  understand. I went, I did the research and
• 59:51
  then what I did was I took and I applied that to what we already
• 59:55
  knew to be working with content marketing.
• 59:59
  And then we also tested and applied those principles to the
• 1:00:05
  content marketing. And so the result of that was
• 1:00:11
  something that we've coined as content or marketing and
• 1:00:17
  essentially. All we're doing is we're taking
• 1:00:21
  the key 8 triggers that need to happen within the brain, within
• 1:00:26
  the three decision layers of the brain.
• 1:00:27
  So you've got your primal brain, you've got your limbic system,
• 1:00:30
  your emotional brain, and you've got the neocortex, your rational
• 1:00:32
  brain. And so the the primal brain
• 1:00:35
  basically acts as a filter for information.
• 1:00:38
  That's your survival instincts. And so you have to get past the
• 1:00:41
  primal brain to get to the emotional brain to then get to
• 1:00:46
  the rational brain to have somebody make a decision.
• 1:00:49
  And it's funny because I was realizing that that lines up
• 1:00:54
  exactly with the flow of successful content.
• 1:00:59
  You hook somebody in so you get information, pass the filter of
• 1:01:03
  the primal brain, you activate their emotional resonance, your
• 1:01:08
  neurons and just emotional responses within the limbic
• 1:01:11
  system, and then you push into the logical part of the brain.
• 1:01:16
  You kind of bridge that gap. People more or less make the
• 1:01:19
  decision, They make emotional decisions.
• 1:01:21
  They've basically made the decision, but then to actually
• 1:01:23
  justify it, feel good about it, and hand you their credit card.
• 1:01:27
  That's where the rational part of the brain comes in, which is
• 1:01:30
  looking for risk relief. It wants to make sure that this
• 1:01:33
  is actually going to work, which again, this is exactly what
• 1:01:36
  we're doing in a video. We're hooking people in, we're
• 1:01:39
  activating the emotional response, and then we're tying
• 1:01:42
  it into that rational piece that's going to bridge the gap
• 1:01:47
  and actually get them to buy something.
• 1:01:49
  So we started more intentionally.
• 1:01:52
  We were already doing it in a lot of ways, accidentally
• 1:01:55
  started more intentionally applying it to our content and
• 1:01:58
  then brought in the rest of those triggers that have also
• 1:02:04
  been well researched. So we know what the brain's
• 1:02:07
  going to do and started bringing those into the to our content.
• 1:02:11
  Then what we discovered was this works really great.
• 1:02:14
  We don't even need as many views as we were getting.
• 1:02:17
  It's actually better to get less views and just convert at a
• 1:02:21
  higher rate. And so now we, you know, we used
• 1:02:25
  to post videos all the time intentionally that would get a
• 1:02:29
  hundred 500 million views. And we just simply don't do that
• 1:02:35
  anymore because we don't need to, because we will actually
• 1:02:41
  make more money and convert at a higher rate if we just get 1000
• 1:02:45
  views on a video, the Super targeted messaging, then if we
• 1:02:49
  got a video with 1,000,000 views, because then we don't
• 1:02:52
  backlog our sales process and it's more consistent.
• 1:02:55
  I'm able to consistently post a video and I know that I can get
• 1:02:58
  a minimum of 1000 views every single time I post, sometimes up
• 1:03:03
  to 5000. That's fine.
• 1:03:04
  It's not going to clog our pipeline and we know what those
• 1:03:08
  conversion numbers are going to be coming out of those.
• 1:03:11
  And so we're able to stabilize our lead flow in a way that
• 1:03:15
  isn't possible with virality because even though yes, this
• 1:03:18
  rush of leads sounds really great, A rush of leads one month
• 1:03:23
  is a lot of lost revenue potential.
• 1:03:25
  But if you can bring those leads in at a more consistent but more
• 1:03:28
  controlled rate, you're going to make more money over time
• 1:03:33
  because you're able to convert those people have a more
• 1:03:36
  seamless process and then you have the retention.
• 1:03:38
  So then you're building while you're kind of doubling as you
• 1:03:42
  go. So that's kind of what we
• 1:03:45
  started doing. And then we started again more
• 1:03:49
  intentionally applying those different triggers to client
• 1:03:51
  content. And basically it was just very
• 1:03:55
  overwhelming for people. I think that people need to know
• 1:03:58
  all the information. Here's all the theory, here's
• 1:04:01
  what the brain's doing, here's all this stuff, and then you can
• 1:04:04
  go do it all by yourself and see you later.
• 1:04:07
  And So what we shifted to is we created what we're calling the
• 1:04:13
  Converts framework. And so that brings in each of
• 1:04:17
  those 8 triggers, but it's in a more controlled way.
• 1:04:20
  Digestible. Yeah, it's yeah.
• 1:04:22
  So it's not overwhelming for people.
• 1:04:24
  So for each letter of the framework, that's one
• 1:04:27
  psychological trigger that needs to be hit, one button that needs
• 1:04:30
  to be pressed. You do all of those in a week.
• 1:04:33
  Congratulations, you're making super consistent fails.
• 1:04:36
  So yeah, that's. Which is so, so interesting
• 1:04:39
  because it kind of it challenges a couple things that are
• 1:04:42
  considered to be quote UN quote typical or common in social
• 1:04:45
  media, which is a lot of people will talk about.
• 1:04:48
  There was a big narrative around having a big following, having
• 1:04:51
  lots of views. That is something that's a
• 1:04:53
  massive contributor to success, which I know Sorian was saying
• 1:04:55
  earlier, like really is not correlated at all.
• 1:04:58
  And then even to your point of the fact that it has to go
• 1:05:00
  through these three layers, I think you know, to your mention
• 1:05:03
  of the buyer types kind of potentially being like outdated,
• 1:05:06
  it's interesting because as you they kind of have to always go
• 1:05:09
  through these three layers, even if it is at the root and
• 1:05:12
  emotional decision that challenges everything we've been
• 1:05:14
  taught about buyer types, which is the idea that you have this
• 1:05:18
  very singular way of operating, this very singular way of making
• 1:05:23
  decisions. And so, you know, I think that
• 1:05:26
  for people listening, I think it's important because it shows
• 1:05:30
  also based off what you're noting, like the complexity of a
• 1:05:33
  buyer. But also, even though there
• 1:05:35
  might be a complex system in which they make decisions, it's
• 1:05:38
  simple from an execution standpoint to kind of hit on all
• 1:05:41
  those triggers at the same time. Exactly.
• 1:05:44
  That's The thing is like, yes, it is very complex and there's a
• 1:05:47
  lot to understand, but also if you just know what boxes to
• 1:05:51
  check, the brain's good, it doesn't really care how you do
• 1:05:55
  it or in what order, you know? And also to your point about the
• 1:05:59
  buyer types, because I did a lot of research trying to reconcile
• 1:06:05
  kind of my understanding there because I had done a lot of
• 1:06:08
  research on the just personality types and buying behavior prior
• 1:06:12
  to even diving into brain scans. And the conclusion that I've
• 1:06:18
  come to is that the buyer types are like the five love
• 1:06:23
  languages. And so, you know, you've got
• 1:06:27
  your physical touch and words of affirmation and gifts and all
• 1:06:31
  the things. And you know, even if you
• 1:06:34
  primarily are a physical touch person, if that's the only thing
• 1:06:39
  that's present in a relationship, then it's not a
• 1:06:42
  well-rounded, fulfilling relationship.
• 1:06:44
  Right. And So what I've learned is I've
• 1:06:48
  kind as I've kind of reconciled the two is the fact that those
• 1:06:52
  buyer types act in the same way. Somebody might be primarily a
• 1:06:56
  driver buyer that might be their buying love language.
• 1:06:59
  But if the other things that the brain needs to feel safe aren't
• 1:07:04
  present, then you're not creating a well-rounded
• 1:07:07
  fulfilling relationship for that buyer.
• 1:07:10
  And so I think that the understanding of the buyer types
• 1:07:15
  is wonderful because it can give you some direction on a person
• 1:07:20
  to person basis. And also I think that it's more
• 1:07:24
  impactful in a sales conversation than it is
• 1:07:28
  specifically within marketing because you know, you're not
• 1:07:32
  just making a video that's for analytical buyers, right?
• 1:07:35
  You're making a video that's probably hitting several of the
• 1:07:39
  triggers if you're doing it correctly.
• 1:07:41
  And so when we're having a one to one conversation to know that
• 1:07:45
  you're talking to somebody who's super expressive.
• 1:07:47
  So then you kind of roughly know what things they're going to pay
• 1:07:50
  more attention to, what things they're going to care about and
• 1:07:53
  what area of the brain they tend to lean on a little bit more in
• 1:07:57
  decision making. That can be very, very helpful.
• 1:08:01
  But in a lot of ways, it's it's oversimplified from a marketing
• 1:08:06
  standpoint. OK, there's so much I can't, I
• 1:08:10
  feel like there would be like 4 hours of it like OK, tell us all
• 1:08:12
  the things. That's all the frameworks, all
• 1:08:14
  the levels. And I want to go on a total non
• 1:08:17
  sequitur because it you triggered my brain.
• 1:08:20
  And now I was saying before we press record today that there
• 1:08:24
  was something that I was kind of drafting up questions and I was
• 1:08:26
  like, there's something that everyone wants to know.
• 1:08:27
  And you're mentioning the love language as my brain was like
• 1:08:29
  Ding Ding, Ding. So the two of you have worked
• 1:08:33
  together how many years now? 4.
• 1:08:35
  I mean the whole time we've had the business.
• 1:08:37
  So like needless is say we've got some time, we've got some
• 1:08:40
  experience under our belt. Obviously you are partners in
• 1:08:44
  business and you're partners in life and you're spending all day
• 1:08:48
  every day together, which to be honest, some people during COVID
• 1:08:52
  split because of how much time they were spending together.
• 1:08:55
  And yet you guys are building an empire.
• 1:08:57
  And so with this, we see like the Hermoses, everyone's like, I
• 1:09:01
  would love to have a relationship like that where
• 1:09:03
  I've got my partner and we're both obsessed with business and
• 1:09:06
  we're both scrappy entrepreneurs and we're doing it.
• 1:09:08
  But I feel like very rarely do people actually get an
• 1:09:11
  opportunity to hear from both parties at the same time as to
• 1:09:15
  how the heck do you guys make that work.
• 1:09:18
  And so I guess the question would be, how do you guys
• 1:09:22
  navigate partners in business, partners in life?
• 1:09:25
  And like, what are those boundaries or what does that
• 1:09:26
  dynamic look like to be able to have space between those two
• 1:09:31
  categories? Or do you have space?
• 1:09:33
  Are you having dinner and you're talking about Sops, like what is
• 1:09:35
  that? What does that look like?
• 1:09:36
  How do you guys navigate that dynamic?
• 1:09:39
  We got to have taxable expenses somehow, so.
• 1:09:42
  Yeah, yeah. It's a write off.
• 1:09:44
  It's a write off. I love it.
• 1:09:49
  Soren, what do you what do you think in your alliance?
• 1:09:52
  We haven't killed each other yet.
• 1:09:53
  Yet yet. Anyways, no, our personalities
• 1:09:58
  go together really well. It definitely comes with its
• 1:10:00
  challenges. I think the best thing, again,
• 1:10:03
  most people under communicate probably want to over
• 1:10:06
  communicate, especially if you're going to try and do
• 1:10:08
  something like this. And we have our differences.
• 1:10:11
  There are issues that we have had arguments over for years in
• 1:10:15
  the business about certain things, how I think things
• 1:10:17
  should be done versus how Kenda thinks things should be done.
• 1:10:21
  And we have like disagreements. But again, it is just kind of
• 1:10:23
  like you need a, you know, there's the core principles that
• 1:10:27
  you agree on. Kendall was talking about like
• 1:10:29
  culture and values fit 1st and then skills 3rd.
• 1:10:33
  And you kind of want to operate the same way like that in your
• 1:10:36
  relationships, right? Like you want to make sure that
• 1:10:38
  you align on core values 1st. And then everything else kind of
• 1:10:43
  doesn't matter because as long as you know what your core
• 1:10:45
  values are, you know what direction you're headed, it
• 1:10:48
  doesn't necessarily matter what tools you use to get there or
• 1:10:51
  whether you walk or run or bike or swim, right?
• 1:10:54
  It's just you're headed in that direction.
• 1:10:57
  So that's kind of, you know, how I look at it definitely has its
• 1:11:00
  challenges. It's really funny.
• 1:11:02
  One time I was like, I didn't have anything going on And we
• 1:11:05
  were living in Denver at the time.
• 1:11:06
  So I like it was snowing. It was like in 22 and I was so
• 1:11:10
  mad because like 21, it snowed 22.
• 1:11:12
  We get like ski passes. Finally I was like, ah, we're
• 1:11:15
  finally making money. I can finally like I've always
• 1:11:16
  wanted to ski anyways, so I like take off.
• 1:11:20
  I'm like, I'm going to go ski 1/2 day up at Breck.
• 1:11:22
  I roll my eyes because 1/2 day at Breck is like sarcasm when
• 1:11:25
  it's snowing on I-70. Like even if you only see half
• 1:11:28
  the day, like getting back down I-70, like oh man, you just
• 1:11:31
  dumped so much. Time driving is half a day.
• 1:11:34
  But I get up there, I'm on the ski lift and I'm talking to
• 1:11:37
  these guys and I'm like, oh, yeah, they're like, what do you
• 1:11:39
  do? And I'm like, oh, I work with my
• 1:11:40
  wife. And both of them, they're much
• 1:11:41
  older than me. They're like in their 50s.
• 1:11:44
  They were shook up because they're like, oh, yeah, I'd be
• 1:11:45
  divorced if I worked with my wife.
• 1:11:47
  And I just thought that was so funny because I was like, at
• 1:11:49
  least to me, it's not that hard. It's not that crazy.
• 1:11:52
  And I think like the whole thing is just like perspective on it
• 1:11:55
  again. And kind of also, I mean, I made
• 1:11:58
  the joke, you know, extensible dinners, right?
• 1:12:00
  We do talk about business over dinner more than probably
• 1:12:04
  should. But like we try and separate
• 1:12:06
  like personal and business life. And we also like try and do
• 1:12:09
  things like I try and plan a date night once a week, right?
• 1:12:12
  Even if it's just, you know, going and getting dinner
• 1:12:15
  somewhere close by. And taking his sister with us.
• 1:12:18
  She third wheels with us a lot, yeah.
• 1:12:22
  Like, I know, like some people will say, you know, when you're
• 1:12:25
  when you're working with a partner that you have to have
• 1:12:28
  these times, like you don't talk about business and it's like we
• 1:12:31
  are, you know, putting our phones away and we're just
• 1:12:33
  connecting. But then you also have the other
• 1:12:35
  side of the coin where people say, but why would we do that
• 1:12:37
  when we're obsessed with the business?
• 1:12:39
  And it's literally our passion. It's our love and our like the
• 1:12:41
  thing that we're both in love with or that we love the best.
• 1:12:45
  Why would we not talk about it? It's like this is something
• 1:12:48
  we're doing. We're kind of Co creating
• 1:12:50
  together. And so for you guys, do you feel
• 1:12:52
  like you would recommend someone to have space with their partner
• 1:12:56
  away from business or do you feel like it kind of being able
• 1:13:00
  to talk about it and share it is part of why you guys enjoy it so
• 1:13:02
  much? I think it's a little bit of
• 1:13:05
  both and it's also to be successful in business, to be
• 1:13:10
  successful in a marriage, to be successful in anything, you have
• 1:13:15
  to have a certain level of emotional intelligence.
• 1:13:19
  And so I think for some people, they may need to have it super
• 1:13:23
  structured. For us, I think we can kind of
• 1:13:26
  tell when the other person's kind of burnt and needs a break
• 1:13:31
  and we're able to just adapt. And you know, it's the cliche
• 1:13:36
  where people are like marriage isn't 5050, it's whatever
• 1:13:39
  percentage you're able to give. And that I mean, that's kind of
• 1:13:42
  true. Sometimes 5050, both of us want
• 1:13:47
  to talk about the business and we're both on and that's great.
• 1:13:50
  And sometimes I don't want to hear another thing about
• 1:13:56
  business ever again. I'm like, get that away from me.
• 1:13:59
  And I think we're both good at picking up on that and also just
• 1:14:06
  communicating. Yeah, sometimes one of us will
• 1:14:09
  just say, OK, I don't wanna talk about business anymore tonight
• 1:14:12
  and the other just respects that.
• 1:14:16
  The question that I'm wondering is like, OK, so say you have a
• 1:14:19
  say you have a argument in business, right?
• 1:14:22
  Say you have a little bit of a disagreement, a little bit of a,
• 1:14:24
  you know, attention. Or on the contrast, maybe you
• 1:14:28
  have a disagreement in your personal life, in your marriage,
• 1:14:31
  and you just had, you know, you said this way, this way, and it
• 1:14:34
  bothered me and now I'm pissed at you.
• 1:14:37
  Some partners would have some breathing room.
• 1:14:39
  They'd go to work, they would decompress, they might chat with
• 1:14:42
  a friend and then they go back home and they say, hey, about
• 1:14:45
  yesterday. Instead, you guys have to either
• 1:14:48
  close the laptop and go have dinner together or you're waking
• 1:14:52
  up in the morning and you're starting business together
• 1:14:54
  today. So I guess the curiosity would
• 1:14:56
  be like if you were trying to navigate these dynamics and
• 1:15:00
  obviously as anybody would in a, as you said, in a relationship
• 1:15:03
  personally or in business, you're going to have situations.
• 1:15:06
  How do you guys navigate having natural normal conflicts while
• 1:15:10
  also having to protect the outcome of like team and
• 1:15:14
  marketing and making sure the whole thing still happens while
• 1:15:18
  still obviously having each other at like the forefront of
• 1:15:20
  it all? I mean, we just hashed out, I
• 1:15:22
  mean, just like any other team member, if if you had a
• 1:15:25
  disagreement or if you had a partner that isn't your partner
• 1:15:30
  that is in your business, I mean you, you'd hash it out and you'd
• 1:15:34
  get to a conclusion and decide what you guys are going to do to
• 1:15:38
  move forward. And so we just do that.
• 1:15:41
  I think that we both have the same vision for the future.
• 1:15:47
  We both want the same things and we're both working towards the
• 1:15:50
  same outcome. And I think there's a level of
• 1:15:55
  humility that's required because there have been times where
• 1:16:02
  Soren and I disagree about how something should be done in the
• 1:16:05
  business or about what something should look like visually when
• 1:16:09
  we when we create it. And it's kind of just, you know,
• 1:16:13
  no one to pick your battles because there's things where and
• 1:16:17
  and also know if it's like, is it a fatal error or not?
• 1:16:21
  You know, if it's something that is not going to bring the
• 1:16:24
  business crashing and burning, But we disagree on it.
• 1:16:28
  Usually one of us will just be like, fine, let's try it your
• 1:16:31
  way and let's see what it does. And there's been plenty of times
• 1:16:34
  where I was adamant that something needed to be done a
• 1:16:37
  certain way. And I finally just stepped back
• 1:16:40
  and was like, you can do it your way, but you have to do it like
• 1:16:43
  you're gonna, you're gonna build it.
• 1:16:45
  And he did. And it worked better than what I
• 1:16:49
  would have thought or probably better than what I would have
• 1:16:52
  wanted to do. And I think vice versa has
• 1:16:56
  happened. And so it's humility knowing
• 1:17:00
  when to step back and decide that, like, this isn't a fight
• 1:17:06
  worth winning. It really doesn't matter.
• 1:17:09
  The second thing is just a mutual respect, because I think
• 1:17:16
  we have a very good marriage and very healthy relationship.
• 1:17:19
  And I think that that comes because we do respect each other
• 1:17:24
  and we also take a very realistic perspective as to each
• 1:17:31
  other's strengths and weaknesses.
• 1:17:33
  And there's some things that I'm great at that Soren's terrible
• 1:17:38
  at, and there's things that he's great at the I'm terrible at.
• 1:17:42
  And rather than weaponizing those things against each other,
• 1:17:47
  we just leverage the things that we're better AT and work
• 1:17:50
  together. And I think we've chosen to take
• 1:17:53
  that approach because of the respect that we have for each
• 1:17:56
  other, because we understand each other well and we're both
• 1:18:02
  working towards the same goal. Ultimately, you know, even if we
• 1:18:07
  disagree on something, we're not on separate sides.
• 1:18:11
  We're on the same team. We're in the business right
• 1:18:14
  there. There may be different ways that
• 1:18:16
  something could be done, but we both just want what's best for
• 1:18:20
  the business at the end of the day.
• 1:18:21
  And we both know that about each other.
• 1:18:24
  And so I think it makes it easy. And because we do respect each
• 1:18:27
  other, we also trust each other. And so when one of us says no, I
• 1:18:32
  really think that we need to do it this way, the other person is
• 1:18:35
  typically willing to step back and allow them to do that.
• 1:18:39
  And you know, a, a lot of people talk about how you need to have
• 1:18:44
  separation. You need to have your own
• 1:18:46
  things. You need to have your own
• 1:18:47
  friends and your own hobbies and your own whatever.
• 1:18:51
  And while I do agree with that, I think what is equally and or
• 1:18:57
  even potentially more important is to have shared hobbies and
• 1:19:03
  shared interests that you both enjoy.
• 1:19:06
  Yeah. And the business just happens to
• 1:19:10
  be one of those things for the both of us.
• 1:19:13
  And we also, because another question we get asked is like,
• 1:19:18
  well, how do you prioritize? Does your marriage come first?
• 1:19:20
  Does the business come first? And our marriage always comes
• 1:19:25
  first. And they also feed into each
• 1:19:28
  other. We're going to be less stressed.
• 1:19:33
  And you know the number one cause of divorce is financial
• 1:19:36
  problems. Yeah.
• 1:19:37
  Yeah. And so we're going to have less
• 1:19:39
  stress. We're going to have less things
• 1:19:41
  to disagree about if the business is healthy and doing
• 1:19:44
  well. And also the business is going
• 1:19:47
  to be healthy and do well if we ourselves are healthy and able
• 1:19:53
  to step into the business as a united front.
• 1:19:58
  And it's honestly, it's just such a blessing really, to be
• 1:20:04
  able to have something that we both care so deeply about, that
• 1:20:08
  we're both so passionate about, and we we get to build it
• 1:20:12
  together. Well, I also think about like
• 1:20:14
  exactly as you said, think about the blessing of how much time
• 1:20:17
  like when you guys are Fast forward in your 90 that you got
• 1:20:21
  to spend together that most couples spend majority like
• 1:20:26
  we're talking 8 hours a day away from one another.
• 1:20:29
  And yet you guys are in it together all day every day.
• 1:20:32
  And so like the also experience of how much more of like
• 1:20:36
  generally life you're going to be able to experience together
• 1:20:39
  because you're doing this is 10X of what other people will.
• 1:20:43
  And I think that you had on something really important.
• 1:20:45
  I'm thinking for anyone who is working or considering working
• 1:20:47
  with a partner, which is that basically the health of your
• 1:20:50
  marriage is going to present in the business.
• 1:20:52
  So I'm like, and I love that you noted that because basically if
• 1:20:55
  you guys didn't have healthy communication that would present
• 1:20:57
  in the business, if you guys held resentment, that would
• 1:21:00
  present within the business. So really the reason you're able
• 1:21:04
  to work super well together in the business is because you guys
• 1:21:06
  also just in general, without even any business context,
• 1:21:09
  really respect each other, have good communication with each
• 1:21:12
  other. Understand again, as you said,
• 1:21:14
  like skills of one another where one is more leverage than the
• 1:21:17
  other. And I'm thinking, you know, even
• 1:21:19
  soar into your point of like the guys when you went skiing, I
• 1:21:23
  think, which I don't know how to say it like any other way other
• 1:21:26
  than bluntly. Like.
• 1:21:27
  I think there's also a lot of people who don't like their
• 1:21:28
  partner. Yeah.
• 1:21:30
  Who don't like genuine, like, I don't know to say that like, who
• 1:21:32
  don't like genuinely spending time with their partner.
• 1:21:35
  They find their partner to be a burden or they find their
• 1:21:37
  partner after a certain point. It's like, I can't be around
• 1:21:40
  this person. And I think, you know, it's,
• 1:21:42
  it's really inspiring because obviously you guys have been
• 1:21:46
  working in business together for several years and you're doing
• 1:21:48
  so in a harmony way outside of business and in business.
• 1:21:51
  And obviously like it sounds silly, but obviously it shows
• 1:21:53
  you guys actually really genuinely like each other and
• 1:21:55
  spending time with each other. And also that you actually have
• 1:21:58
  a healthy dynamic. And I think it's an, an
• 1:22:00
  invitation. Maybe if someone's working with
• 1:22:02
  their partner and not enjoying that or they think maybe like
• 1:22:05
  the guys on the ski slope, there's no freaking way I could
• 1:22:08
  do that, That maybe it's less of an invitation to think about the
• 1:22:11
  business side and it's more an invitation to think about the
• 1:22:13
  actual relationship or the marriage and being like, why do
• 1:22:16
  I not want to be around my partner?
• 1:22:17
  Or why do I have a threshold of how much of them I can quote UN
• 1:22:20
  quote handle? 1000% And The thing is, is that
• 1:22:26
  the things that annoy you about your partner are typically a
• 1:22:31
  reflection of either something that you don't like about
• 1:22:33
  yourself or an insecurity or weakness on your own end.
• 1:22:37
  And I think if you can just carry that awareness.
• 1:22:41
  And the other thing is that, you know, we don't treat each other
• 1:22:45
  differently inside of the business because we're married.
• 1:22:49
  We if we disagree about something, our, our team will
• 1:22:53
  tell you we'll have it out on the team meeting because it's
• 1:22:59
  never personal mingled with business.
• 1:23:01
  It's always one or the other. And if it's personal, then it's
• 1:23:04
  obviously not going to happen on a team meeting.
• 1:23:06
  But like, if it, if we're disagreeing about something on a
• 1:23:09
  team meeting, I just as with every single person on our team,
• 1:23:14
  they know that I ask for their opinions.
• 1:23:16
  I genuinely want their opinions. I require their feedback and
• 1:23:22
  when they give it to me, sometimes I agree and sometimes
• 1:23:25
  I don't. And we have the same
• 1:23:27
  conversation that Soren and I would have.
• 1:23:30
  And so, you know, whether it's him or Ashley or Sasha, it
• 1:23:34
  doesn't matter If there's something that we're not aligned
• 1:23:37
  on, we're just going to figure it out on on the meeting.
• 1:23:41
  And so it doesn't, we don't like get offline and then go scream
• 1:23:45
  at each other about this. Business thing.
• 1:23:47
  That just doesn't happen because we just.
• 1:23:51
  You treat each other like a team member.
• 1:23:53
  You like I'm treating you like everybody else to make it fair
• 1:23:55
  and to make it equal. Yeah, OK.
• 1:23:58
  So I feel like I would interview you guys for like 2 hours about
• 1:24:01
  the relationship. There's so much impact there.
• 1:24:02
  But I want to end with having and asking each of you.
• 1:24:07
  You obviously work with a lot of different scaling entrepreneurs
• 1:24:11
  and there's a lot of noise. There's a lot of opinions as to
• 1:24:13
  what someone focuses on or what you might recommend as a piece
• 1:24:17
  of advice for someone scaling their business.
• 1:24:20
  So Soren, I'll start with you. If you were thinking of someone
• 1:24:23
  who wants to rapidly scale their business and it could be
• 1:24:25
  personal, could be mindset, could be marketing, it could be
• 1:24:28
  sales, it could be whatever and they really want to scale.
• 1:24:32
  And obviously you've worked with a ton of people who've done this
• 1:24:34
  and your own. What's something that you would
• 1:24:36
  give as advice? Maybe a perspective, you know, a
• 1:24:40
  kind of quote that you live by, something that you would
• 1:24:42
  recommend to them that you would anchor into if they really want
• 1:24:45
  to scale their business or themselves That's.
• 1:24:47
  A great question. So we'll assume they already
• 1:24:51
  have a business area of sales coming in, whatever, right?
• 1:24:53
  I am a really big fan. If you already have something
• 1:24:56
  working, see how you can like 10X it, 100 X IT, whatever.
• 1:25:01
  And if you can't, what is the lever you can pull that's going
• 1:25:05
  to give you the greatest return in your business?
• 1:25:07
  Every business is different again, like if it's marketing
• 1:25:10
  and you're posting one piece of content per day and you want to
• 1:25:13
  2X your business and you know, this doesn't always work, but
• 1:25:17
  like what if you post two or three or four times, you know, a
• 1:25:20
  day? What if you figure out how to
• 1:25:23
  distribute that content effectively onto another
• 1:25:26
  platform to double your lead generation, right?
• 1:25:28
  What are those levers that you can pull to get more mileage out
• 1:25:31
  of what you're currently doing? As far as the saying, man, I
• 1:25:35
  mean, this one comes from Canada, but you know, you don't
• 1:25:39
  get what you expect. You get what you inspect, and if
• 1:25:42
  you don't know your numbers, whether it's social media,
• 1:25:45
  whether it's finances, whether it's your fulfillment, you know
• 1:25:50
  it's going to come back to bite you, right?
• 1:25:52
  You got to know what's going on. So yeah, that's that's kind of
• 1:25:56
  like my take on it. So I want that on a sweater.
• 1:25:58
  OK. I want that on a sweater.
• 1:26:00
  I need that on a hoodie. That's such a such a good line.
• 1:26:02
  So good. Kendo.
• 1:26:03
  Kendo, what about you? Well, he took mine.
• 1:26:06
  I was gonna say that you, you get what you inspect, not what
• 1:26:09
  you expect. Yeah.
• 1:26:10
  And I, I will also add on to that you cannot make the mistake
• 1:26:18
  of thinking that other people think the same way that you do.
• 1:26:22
  And so, you know, I, I think the biggest, most relevant thing for
• 1:26:26
  us for the last few months has been around the team and
• 1:26:31
  building the team and developing the team.
• 1:26:33
  And you might expect someone to do something a certain way.
• 1:26:38
  You might expect that they're going to care a certain way.
• 1:26:41
  You might expect that they're going to think about something a
• 1:26:44
  certain way. But what is required is a
• 1:26:48
  certain level of inspection. And so holding people
• 1:26:51
  accountable, not just telling people what to do, but
• 1:26:55
  documenting it, following up on it, reviewing it, giving
• 1:26:59
  feedback on it is key and kind of same thing, Soren said.
• 1:27:05
  It is like just about any business is scalable.
• 1:27:10
  You just need to find what lever to pull and you find those
• 1:27:14
  levers by just looking at your data and then you're not chasing
• 1:27:20
  and creating solutions for problems that you don't have.
• 1:27:26
  So common people think that they need to make better content,
• 1:27:30
  they need a new content strategy, they need this, they
• 1:27:33
  need that. But if you, you know, zoom in
• 1:27:36
  and actually look at the numbers, your show rate is
• 1:27:39
  trash. If you could refine your show
• 1:27:42
  rate a little bit, suddenly you're doubling your sales
• 1:27:45
  without increasing your lead flow or your close rate at all,
• 1:27:48
  right? And so there's always the little
• 1:27:51
  levers in business and they'll be revealed by your metrics.
• 1:27:56
  And it's always the little refinements that make the big
• 1:28:01
  difference. And when you try to make a huge
• 1:28:04
  shift, when you try to make a big change in your business,
• 1:28:08
  you're basically starting over. And if you can instead find
• 1:28:14
  those little things that are going to my analogy that I
• 1:28:17
  always use is barrel racing. You don't need to change the
• 1:28:22
  direction that you're running the pattern.
• 1:28:23
  You don't need to go from running right side first to left
• 1:28:26
  side first. What you really need to change
• 1:28:29
  is the way your hand is your hand positioning around the
• 1:28:32
  second barrel. What you really need to change
• 1:28:35
  is the way you shift your weight around the third barrel.
• 1:28:37
  Those are the things that actually give you the
• 1:28:39
  exponential growth is those little tiny tweaks that come
• 1:28:43
  from refinement. And that's what separates the
• 1:28:47
  businesses that never had $1,000,000 from everyone else
• 1:28:51
  and also the businesses that get stuck in the one to $3,000,000.
• 1:28:56
  Swamp is $2,000,000 is where businesses go to die.
• 1:29:01
  And what happens is that they think that because they've heard
• 1:29:05
  what got you here won't get you there.
• 1:29:07
  And so they think that they need to do something different,
• 1:29:10
  right? You don't need to do anything
• 1:29:11
  different. You just need to look at your
• 1:29:13
  data to decide what you need to do better, and then you focus
• 1:29:18
  all of your time, energy, and effort onto that one thing.
• 1:29:24
  That's it. I know it's not.
• 1:29:25
  I think for most people it's not sexy because they're like, you
• 1:29:27
  mean, I just have to refine and I have to tweak things.
• 1:29:30
  That's not as exciting as something totally new.
• 1:29:32
  But I very much agree because I think, you know, it kind of
• 1:29:36
  sounds basic. My business has been the same
• 1:29:37
  since almost the first day that I started.
• 1:29:39
  The offers are pretty much identical.
• 1:29:41
  The team has grown, but other than that, marketing, generally
• 1:29:44
  speaking, the same strategy, just different platforms.
• 1:29:46
  So I think for some people that's frustrating because
• 1:29:49
  they're like, there has to be something else that I'm just not
• 1:29:51
  touching yet, which is the reason I'm not successful.
• 1:29:54
  Because if the resources you have in front of you are the
• 1:29:56
  reason you're not successful, you have to own that and eat
• 1:29:58
  that. And that's hard a lot of the
• 1:29:59
  time for people to absorb or to deal with.
• 1:30:02
  OK, So obviously you guys know now after an hour and a half why
• 1:30:06
  I'm obsessed with the both of them.
• 1:30:07
  So if somebody wants to learn more from both of you there, I
• 1:30:11
  know for a fact are going to be nerding out on all things neural
• 1:30:13
  marketing or just in general want to listen to more of these
• 1:30:16
  kind of conversations from you. Where are the best places for
• 1:30:19
  people to kind of learn more about not only services but also
• 1:30:22
  just in general, both of you? Well, of course there's
• 1:30:25
  Instagram. We have the same Instagram
• 1:30:27
  handles at Kendall dot Laney, at Soren dot Laney and podcast
• 1:30:31
  YouTube. But the most exciting thing we
• 1:30:37
  the last three days and we just put it live because we got the
• 1:30:40
  hit of inspiration and decided to do it.
• 1:30:43
  We launched a done for you freebie and so people are able
• 1:30:48
  to apply. Obviously not everyone will
• 1:30:50
  qualify, but people can apply, come through, we're going to
• 1:30:54
  audit their entire account, rewrite 5 pieces of content to
• 1:30:58
  get more leads in the door. So give them a few lovers they
• 1:31:00
  can pull, get some extra leads and they'll get 3 days of
• 1:31:03
  complimentary Slack support as well as a live gap assessment
• 1:31:06
  call with the team. So if they want us to like redo
• 1:31:10
  their content, that's the best way to do it.
• 1:31:12
  And if they qualify, we'll do it completely free.
• 1:31:15
  Otherwise, we have, I think I gave you a resource to link in
• 1:31:18
  the show notes for kind of a content planning structure that
• 1:31:22
  people can also use. And yeah, I think that covers
• 1:31:25
  it. Feel like you guys are
• 1:31:26
  everywhere, your YouTube, your TikTok, your Instagram, you're
• 1:31:28
  everywhere. So I definitely that's epic.
• 1:31:30
  By the way, that sounds incredible.
• 1:31:32
  So if you're hearing that, I would say like run.
• 1:31:34
  But if someone obviously is loving today's conversation,
• 1:31:37
  then I would head to their socials.
• 1:31:38
  Honestly, you guys post content so much every single day on
• 1:31:42
  every platform. So like if you're even today is
• 1:31:44
  truly because I know both their brains is like a appetizer, like
• 1:31:49
  when I'm talking at those fancy restaurants where the portions
• 1:31:51
  are small, that's what today was in the podcast.
• 1:31:53
  So I would highly recommend going and binging because you
• 1:31:55
  guys will be obsessed with a lot of the stuff they do.
• 1:31:58
  And I will tell you and I say it's about very few people.
• 1:32:00
  These two really know business like actual business, not
• 1:32:03
  Instagram business. I'm talking actual business.
• 1:32:06
  And so I really recommend also if you're looking for support,
• 1:32:08
  they have great programs, great supports in masterminds like
• 1:32:11
  group coaching, all of the things.
• 1:32:13
  And so I would head over there too if you like their brain and
• 1:32:15
  want more of that, they've got incredible support.
• 1:32:17
  So thank you guys so much for today.
• 1:32:19
  This was so good. I know we went severely
• 1:32:21
  overtime. I appreciate you guys both, but
• 1:32:23
  thank you guys both for coming on.
• 1:32:25
  Of course, thanks for having us, this was so fun.
• 1:32:28
  Yeah, of course, of course. All righty, you guys.
• 1:32:30
  Well, we will see you on the next episode.
• 1:32:32
  And, as always, stay ambitious.