Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Roast! West Coast Classics: Cupping & Processing

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Roast! West Coast Classics: Cupping & Processing · Coffee People Podcast

0:12
Good morning everyone. I hope you have a cup of coffee
0:15
at the ready because this is roast West Coast.
0:18
Classics Vol 2. Let me explain first off.
0:23
Hello? Hi, I'm Ryan Walt, I've been
0:25
hosting the roast West Coast coffee pod cast for three full
0:28
seasons. We We are currently on Hiatus
0:31
for the holidays while we gear up for season 4, which is coming
0:35
in early 2022, but I didn't want to leave you without some great
0:39
coffee content. I'll be checking in with you.
0:41
Each week with some updates, some coffee news, and short
0:44
interviews from the road. And because I've noticed a lot
0:47
of new listeners coming aboard in our most recent season.
0:50
We are re-airing some of the classic coffee smarter coffee
0:53
education, shorts from the first few seasons.
0:57
Also, I'm going back to listen to these shows myself just
0:59
because Covered so much information and I honestly don't
1:03
remember at all coffee doesn't come naturally to me, I have to
1:06
work at it and repetition is my best friend.
1:09
This coffee show launched in the earliest days of covid.
1:12
And at the time I was recording Google meet video chats on my
1:16
phone from the bedroom. While my wife worked in the
1:18
living room I've upgraded since then to a mini studio in the
1:22
closet and you're the first to know that in 2022, we're going
1:26
to be going on the road and doing some in-person interviews
1:28
Omicron. And future coronavirus is named
1:33
Starscream or whatever permitting.
1:35
And I also have some exciting news today.
1:37
Danny Riggins, the owner of ultra coffee and tea, he is
1:41
going to be the very first guest interviewed for season 4.
1:44
In the newsletter, I'll link to their website, where I learned
1:47
that Altria means Journey, onward, which is exactly what
1:50
we're doing with this show. I'll be it first by going, back
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to the beginning to listen, to these Classics episodes, if you
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want to go back and listen to all of the roast West Coast, Be
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smarter and interview episodes from the beginning.
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You can do that on Spotify Apple anchor or wherever you listen to
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creating this content. Thank you for supporting the
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show and by extension the entire craft coffee Community.
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I'm glad you're here sharing. The coffee experience with us on
2:32
this Classics, reissue. I'm going back to season one
2:35
weeks, four, and five of our coffee smarter series.
2:38
We covered the coffee cupping or tasting process, that Roasters
2:41
and Cafe owners go through when choosing the coffee's that
2:44
they're going to roast your cell.
2:45
And then we flow right into the week 5 episode, where we dug
2:49
into the different types of coffee processing, which you
2:51
often see referenced in a coffees name, or on the bag with
2:54
terms like washed or natural. As always our expert had all of
2:59
the answers for us. but right now, I need you to refill that
3:02
coffee mug and settle in under a warm blanket because it has been
3:05
chilly on the coast and it's time for the roast West Coast
3:09
coffee podcast, Classics Edition volume 2,
3:29
Chris welcome back to roast west coast.
3:31
Thank you for helping us get coffee smarter.
3:33
Once again I hope a million people came by the shop and
3:37
asked you about blueberries last week.
3:39
But this week, I asked you about cupping.
3:42
What is coming and what can we learn from it?
3:45
I think it leads a little bit into our conversation last week
3:47
about the flavor wheel. Absolutely.
3:50
You know cupping is a fancy name for coffee tasting.
3:54
This is really the the long and short of it, you know last week.
3:57
We wait. Whoa, whoa whoa, whoa, whoa,
3:59
sorry. You saying, there's a little bit
4:01
of pretension in coffee tasting. You know, it's not some of the
4:06
items thing. It's sort of that the world has
4:08
said that there's potential of gavi tasting.
4:11
I got. But, you know, that's that's not
4:14
necessarily a bad thing. We can, we can find positives in
4:18
the world of pretension that we find ourselves in absolutely.
4:22
So, you know, last week, we talked about being mindful of
4:25
what we're tasting, you know, sort of paying Into what's
4:28
happening to our taste buds and what our brain is picking out
4:33
when we're tasting something. So, you're drinking your cup of
4:35
coffee. It tastes bitter and dark like
4:38
your soul and you're like, whoa, that's sort of tastes like dark,
4:42
chocolate and and by your soul I'm specifically talking about
4:45
you. Your soul Ryan.
4:46
Yep, I got it. Not the viewers Souls, just just
4:49
yours. Anyway.
4:51
Cupping is coffee tasting, is actually the way that coffee
4:54
professionals taste coffee. To give their pallets the best
5:00
chance to fully evaluate all the aspects of a cup of coffee.
5:05
There's a whole ritual around it.
5:06
You have these little ceramic bowls and you fill them with the
5:10
grounds and you fresh grind it and you use the bowl to cup the
5:15
scent, that's Rising off the the fresh ground coffee into your
5:18
nose and mouth set your sensory organs, can fully process the
5:23
scent of the coffee that's coming off of it because scent
5:26
and taste Are very closely related.
5:29
They'll they both use the same nerve cell Factory nerve going
5:32
down from your nose and your and your throat.
5:34
And that scent is really important to helping you pick
5:38
out flavors later in the process.
5:39
That's, that's the first stage of the ritual then you add the
5:42
water to it. And once you add the water to
5:45
it, chemical reaction start happening in the coffee.
5:48
Extraction starts happening, compound.
5:50
Start leaving the dry. Coffee grounds and entering the
5:53
water, and we start smelling the coffee as its steeping there
5:57
with the water. Water added forms a bit of a
5:59
crust. On top, the, the coffee grounds,
6:02
once they'd have the water, added sort of form this, this
6:05
crust on top of the bowl and we use a special spoon which is
6:09
sort of a glorified soup spoon to break that Crust open.
6:14
After it's been sitting there for a few minutes and that
6:17
releases the sense that have been underneath the crust, the
6:20
sense of the liquid coffee and not just the grounds interacting
6:24
with the water. So now the coffee is fully
6:26
brood. And there's enough compounds
6:29
that have left, the dry coffee, grounds and entered, the liquid
6:32
coffee, that we can now smell that liquid coffee through the
6:37
broken cross that we've broken with the spoon, then we remove
6:40
the grounds that are floating on the top will use two spoons to
6:43
do that. We just scoop them off the top,
6:44
its kind of kind of like cowboy coffee like that.
6:47
We never actually filter this then a paper or cloth or metal
6:50
and just scoop, those floating grounds off the top and then you
6:53
use this those same spoons to slurp coffee He loudly into your
6:59
mouth and that has also an effect where it cools the coffee
7:03
enough for you to be able to taste it.
7:05
But also by slurping it loudly and Ice that slurping noise that
7:13
slurping sound actually helps spread the coffee's the entirety
7:17
of the inside of your palate. So that all your taste buds, can
7:21
taste it all at once and send the most data back to your brain
7:26
about what you're tasting. And then this goes on, you keep
7:29
slurping loudly. The coffee itself cools, and you
7:32
keep tasting it. As it cools.
7:35
The goal of that is to determine all the different flavors that
7:39
are in it. And as a roaster decide, if you
7:42
would like to serve that coffee, right?
7:44
Some up shop owner, rather. Exactly.
7:46
So people, in different stages, of coffee production, use
7:50
cupping coffee cupping for different purposes.
7:53
So as a shop owner, I use cupping.
7:57
To evaluate a coffee and decide if I want to serve it.
8:01
If I decide, if it's, if it's good enough for my shop and I
8:05
also use it to help identify specific flavors.
8:09
So that I can describe those coffees to customers a coffee
8:13
buyer. Someone who goes to Guatemala or
8:15
Brazil or Ethiopia to buy coffee from a coffee Farm, or a coffee
8:21
producer of some sort. They are going to be evaluating
8:25
the coffee and looking for The effects may be looking for Flaws
8:29
in the agricultural products so that they can determine whether
8:33
it's worthy for them to buy at all.
8:36
And then sell on two people like me, interesting coffee cupping
8:40
because it really is this intense sensory, overload of all
8:44
the different flavors that are in coffee and we discussed in a
8:47
previous week that coffee is actually the most complex
8:50
tasting beverage in the world. Well, that's a 800 compounds in
8:53
a cup of coffee is a lot for your mind to process.
8:56
So Having this ritual way of evaluating coffees can be really
9:01
helpful for digesting, all that information that you're getting
9:05
when you're drinking that coffee.
9:06
So, yeah, coffee cupping can be used in those different ways but
9:10
the ritual behind it actually has this very practical
9:13
application of allowing your physical abilities, to fully
9:18
digest. The sensory implication, and
9:21
information that the coffee is bringing you very cool.
9:25
I know. I think in all of these
9:27
Conversations. I've been having with different
9:29
Roasters the one thing. They all kind of harp on is
9:32
consistency from week to week, whether it's in the coffee or in
9:35
the Brewing or whatever. And, and having that one way
9:39
since they're tasting all of their, you know, their different
9:41
variations kind of the same way over time helps create a process
9:45
to maintain that consistency. That our listeners are getting,
9:48
you know, if their local shop we do we absolutely Chris.
9:51
That was great. Again, thank you for joining and
9:53
helping us get a little smarter about coffee today.
9:55
Appreciate it. And I'm looking forward to our
9:57
next chat. I was look forward to Ryan.
9:59
I get to drink coffee and sit with you and tell you how much
10:02
you don't know. Mr. Chris O'Brien, welcome back
10:08
to the roast West Coast podcast. Thanks for being here.
10:11
Again to help us get coffee smarter grid to I would
10:15
appreciate it. I'm actually looking at your
10:17
menu right now online and I see a bunch of words on there about
10:22
the different coffees that you guys serve.
10:24
Like if I were to Stillwater, a black cup of coffee, I might
10:26
order something by their location of origin.
10:28
Like Ethiopia or Kenya or Costa Rica.
10:31
Yep. But then, there's always kind of
10:32
extra thing with it usually like Ethiopia.
10:35
Natural or Ethiopia washed, what's the difference?
10:38
And what does that even referring to?
10:41
You know, this is one of my favorite questions and I know I
10:43
tell you that almost every week but I actually really do love
10:47
it. And one of the reasons we set up
10:49
our menu, the way we do is to encourage people to ask that and
10:53
talk about this. So I remember working at a
10:57
couple couple coffee shops to go many coffee shops ago, a couple
11:01
different shops. Would try to teach me what the
11:03
answer to this question was and it never really stuck.
11:05
With me until I really started thinking about the fact that
11:08
coffee is a fruit. So coffee is a fruit, it's to
11:12
beans inside a cherry again. We talked about that in a
11:15
previous episode but that really really matters, you know, it's
11:21
not just this black liquid, that we drink it starts as a fruit.
11:25
So people most often see the word natural on a cup of
11:28
Ethiopia coffee or a bag of Ethiopia coffee, and sometimes
11:32
there will be another bag of Ethiopia coffee, right next to
11:34
it. Doesn't say anything or that
11:37
says washed on it and so that question of what is the
11:40
difference between these two Ethiopia's?
11:42
What is the difference between washed and natural?
11:45
Well, at some point coffee Farmers or people that work with
11:49
coffee Farmers, have to get the seeds the beans out of the
11:53
coffee cherry and then this ship them over here to the United
11:57
States or to wherever where they get roasted.
12:00
And then we grind them and then we Brew them into this delicious
12:03
cup that we drink. But to To get those beans out of
12:07
that cherry. Well it's actually not super
12:10
simple Cherry skin is kind of a little bit tough.
12:14
There's all this fruit in there. There's a couple different
12:16
layers inside the Cherry. So how do we get these beans out
12:20
of the Cherry? That is what we're talking
12:22
about. When we talk about natural
12:25
versus washed, it's been processing that the farm is
12:29
doing to send a product over to a roaster that they can actually
12:32
produce exactly and Being in the coffee business.
12:37
We always say, oh, natural versus wash does the processing
12:41
but processing, literally means how do we get the bean out of
12:44
the Cherry? Most places in the world, you're
12:47
going down to Colombia. If you're in Guatemala if you're
12:51
you know in Kenya they're going to soak the cherries in a big
12:55
pool of water. They're going to fill up this
12:57
big bucket full of water and dump, all their coffee cherries
13:00
in. And they leave them soaking
13:01
there for a whole day. And then, at the end of the day,
13:05
they let All the water out, the cherries are all soft and sort
13:08
of fall off the beans and they can then put it on a conveyor
13:11
belt, E-Type device that helps them sort the beans from these
13:16
soaking wet soggy Cherry pieces, okay?
13:19
So that's washed processing. Most common way to produce
13:23
coffee in the world is to wash the Cherry off the bean.
13:27
The coffee comes from Ethiopia. Originally an Ethiopia in
13:30
Africa, has a lot of dry desert type climate to it.
13:35
It's pretty hard to come upon a swimming pool full of water.
13:38
You know, for some of these coffee producers back, when they
13:41
first started producing coffee and drinking coffee, they didn't
13:44
even have the idea to do this whole pool of water thing.
13:47
And so they would set the cherries out in the sun to dry
13:51
and become little raisins. And then they could easily peel,
13:54
open the cherry and pull out the beans and then you can ship them
13:58
and roast them sure. So nowadays that's actually a
14:01
little bit more labor intensive. It takes some more time.
14:04
There's some things that Can go wrong.
14:06
You know, the cherries can rock badly but the two most common
14:09
processing methods we see. And again my processing we're
14:12
talking about how to remove the beam from the coffee.
14:16
Cherry, the two most common processing methods.
14:18
We see are washed where we wash the Cherry off the bean and then
14:23
dry the beans or natural or be dry the beans and the Cherry
14:27
together creating these little raisins.
14:29
And then we peel them open and pull the beans out.
14:32
This might be a dumb question, but can we just like, pick a
14:34
chair? A coffee.
14:36
Cherry off a tree and eat it. Absolutely.
14:38
And most of the coffee, Pickers that work, the fields that work
14:43
in between these big giant coffee bushes.
14:45
When they need a snack, when they're feeling a little little
14:48
snack ish, they'll pull a cherry right off the branch, and heat
14:52
it, and spit those seeds out, and I've eaten a fair number of
14:55
coffee cherries, and they're actually pretty tasty.
14:58
They tastes sort of like lychee or cherry of course, or maybe
15:02
like grape, there's somewhere in between there there.
15:05
They're sort of a lighter fruit, a little bit tart.
15:08
Little bit, sweet. They taste better than you'd
15:10
expect. They're not bitter.
15:11
Maybe that's like we should go into business.
15:13
We can take, we can take coffee beans, dip them in chocolate.
15:16
Then shove them back into these shops cherries, and then
15:19
Implement chocolate. Again, that just sounds
15:21
delicious to me. I think maybe we should save
15:24
those type of business ideas, for times when we're not on a
15:26
podcast together. That's right, I forgot about
15:28
that. I kind of forget about it
15:32
sometimes when talking so one, Coffee processing is that there
15:36
is sort of a middle ground because there are so many layers
15:40
to this coffee, Cherry. You have the skin, you have the
15:42
fruit and then you have this one last layer around the beans
15:45
called the mucilage is like the stickier layer.
15:48
That's kind of whitish. There's also semi washed
15:51
processing out there where they remove the skin and some of the
15:55
fruit with a machine and then they dry it in part of the
15:59
Cherry, but not all of it. And that sort of gets sort of as
16:02
middle ground effect and different parts of the world do.
16:05
It a little differently. So it's very common.
16:07
In Brazil, they call it pulped, natural down there, in Sumatra
16:13
an island in Indonesia. They do it a little bit
16:16
differently than that, and they call that one wet.
16:19
Hold. And then, in Central America
16:21
it's really popular to use a specific machine to do it and
16:25
that machine can sometimes be calibrated to remove different
16:28
amounts of the Cherry. So they call that honey
16:31
processing. And sometimes they do more or
16:35
Honey left on the cherry. And bye-bye, honey.
16:38
We mean that last mucilage layer that sweet white sticky layer,
16:42
that's left inside the fruit. That's really interesting.
16:45
I know I spoke to Manzanita Roasting Company.
16:48
And if you go on the Manzanita website, they have very detailed
16:52
descriptions of the coffee beans that they sell, as much
16:55
information as they can find. So, if you're out there and
16:58
you're trying to learn more about coffees, or see what
17:00
someone's information is, they will tell you on their site.
17:03
Like what the processing was Where it came from, you know,
17:07
the altitude, it was grown at the type of dirt that the coffee
17:11
plant was in, you know, as much as you can imagine in some of
17:14
that relates to this type of processing.
17:16
So you can find out very quickly more details on the coffee,
17:20
you're drinking. That's so awesome to do that
17:23
because all of that really has an effect on the coffee's taste
17:26
ultimately. Well, Chris, thank you for
17:28
joining me again on getting coffee, Smarter with roast West
17:31
Coast. I appreciate you being here,
17:33
sir. So it's a real pleasure.
17:35
As always and I can't wait for next week.
17:55
I've heard Chris that is Chris O'Brien of coffee cycle.
17:59
Roasting talk about all of this stuff before and you may have to
18:04
but it's still nice to brush up on that coffee and fell and it
18:07
makes me appreciate all of these cups.
18:08
I'm making at home just a little bit.
18:10
Or thank you for checking back into the show this week.
18:13
If you've been listening and you're wanting to recommend a
18:15
great Coffee Roastery or a coffee, professional from the
18:18
West Coast that you think should be on the show, hit me up on
18:22
Instagram at roast West Coast one Roastery.
18:25
I would like to get on the show is cartel coffee based out of
18:27
Arizona, but with a location in Palm Springs, California, I
18:31
popped in after a quick overnight in Joshua Tree and not
18:34
only did I have a great Hospitality experience, but
18:38
their standard drip coffee there, 48 blend was Excellent.
18:41
And after a cold, very cold night, under a giant moon in the
18:44
desert, it was the perfect way to distract myself from the
18:47
traffic through Riverside. Which if you don't live in
18:50
Southern California is where all of the traffic from everywhere
18:54
going anywhere, converges, but I got to get off that tangent.
18:58
Season 4 is going to be our biggest season yet and I
19:02
certainly appreciate the heads-up on Whose stories.
19:04
You want to learn more about one of the coffee roasters.
19:07
You're going to meet next season is Tyler Whitehead.
19:10
He Is the entrepreneur founder and roaster behind ignite
19:13
coffee, company. Based in Oceanside, California
19:17
ignite is coming aboard. As one of this shows industry
19:19
partners and I couldn't be more stoked.
19:22
I'm looking forward to learning more about Tyler.
19:24
The coffee, he is, ethically sourcing and why he was inspired
19:27
to get into the coffee game. A lot of our industry, Partners
19:30
have appeared on the show both before and after becoming
19:33
supporters, and I'm always looking for opportunities to pop
19:36
into one of these shops, including Cafe litter, mostra,
19:39
coffee coffee. This cycle, leap coffee, zoom
19:42
bar, coffee, and tea steady-state, roasting or Camp
19:46
Coffee Company. Then late in the day, I'll tap a
19:48
decaf Maria coffee. With some first light whiskey,
19:51
and take a moment to say thanks to Joe over at Cape Horn, coffee
19:54
importers for always saying nice things about me.
19:57
I'll be back next week with another Classics episode all
20:00
about the relative strength of a cup of coffee and how the grind
20:03
of a coffee. Bean can impact quality and
20:06
flavor the new season 4 episodes will start dropping the first
20:09
week of February. Airy 2022 until then head to
20:13
roast westcoast.com to check out all the other coffee content
20:17
when in doubt had to roast westcoast.com this episode of
20:21
the roast West Coast coffee podcast is was has been written
20:26
produced and recorded by meet Ryan Walt.
20:29
I hope this show is found you happy healthy and with at least
20:32
enough sanity to make it through the day, I hope you have a happy
20:36
holiday season and please always tip your Baristas and be sure to
20:41
drink. Good coffee.