Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Beauty in Restoration with Meshali Mitchell

Transcript

The Beauty in Restoration with Meshali Mitchell · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast with Amy Wicks, your wholehearted life and business coach.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: You should know this podcast will inspire you to grow in self-awareness, be passionate about your faith, and get clear on your calling.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: If you are new here, then welcome to the community of multi-passionate women who love to go deep on topics like faith, Enneagram, relationships, leadership, and community.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: This conversation might provide the step you need to make the change you desire.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: So let's get started.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: I think it was back in 2018, about this seed of an idea about capturing beauty and restoration.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Years ago, Michelle and I got to meet thanks to Sarah Hagerty at a conference in Dallas.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: We chatted briefly then and continued the conversation via text.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: And eventually we captured a podcast conversation just about life in general, some of her experiences as a photographer, but also the story of her home, the origin story of how this process of buying this house came about and the God sightings that she experienced.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: And then also in that conversation, she shared the early idea of perhaps the Lord would have her write around this journey of restoration.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Now, if you have written a book or thought about writing a book or you appreciate books, then you likely know there is so much that goes into the author's journey and into the words between the pages or all the space between the words.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: Michelle Mitchell is really a great example of how she has lived out the story and lived out this journey and invited us to dive into the pages both in a visual way and then through words to see the gift of God's restoration and the beauty that can be found in the process, even when we come up against a lot of obstacles or we think, I don't know if this is going to be possible.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: So there's so much here.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to use much time in the introduction, because trust me, you're going to want to listen all the way through.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Really, this conversation feels more like a chat at a coffee shop.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: So I hope you'll enjoy the relaxed nature and glean whatever insights are meant for you today.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: Now we talk about coaching, of course, in this process.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: I can't help but either put my coaching hat or share about the experiences.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: So if you've ever considered inviting someone into your story and exploring more about how history informs that story and about the next right step for you, then I encourage you to book a clarity and a breakthrough call with me.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: I love to virtually sit with someone and bring a story to the surface so we can discern the next right step together and get clarity on the places that feel a little cloudy for you.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: There doesn't have to be major life trauma.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: In fact, if there is, I highly encourage working with a counselor or a therapist.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: But if you just need not only a steady voice and encouragement, but the discernment and support to take action in places where you feel like there has not been proper action in the past, well, I'd love to be that person for you.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: All right.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Now let's jump right into this conversation about restored partnering with God and transforming our broken places.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Hey, Michelle.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
4:12
SPEAKER_02: I'm doing great.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: How are you?
4:15
SPEAKER_02: Good, good.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad to see your face.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: I keep up with you online, but it's just good to see you.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: I wish I could give you a big hug and see you in person, but this is the next best thing.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I wish we could just have a private coffee about all the things.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: So when you come up for air after lunch, I'd love to do that.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: We could do a little zoom coffee and just uh hold space for you as you process.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, we do need to do that.
4:41
SPEAKER_02: That'd be a blessing to me, at least.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it would be a blessing to me.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
4:46
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't offer if I wasn't serious.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: I was thinking this morning about our original connection, and I remembered it was Sarah and her.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: Oh, she is truly a ride or die.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: And um she is.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: That's a perfect word for her.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, praise.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: She's got your back in prayer and in just holding space like a Enneagram four can do, and all that good stuff.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: That's what we need to talk about eventually, Amy, because I'm and I know this is not common in 2025, but I'm like, I'm the person that's still trying to figure out what Enneagram I am because I've thought over totally common.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: I've thought over the years that I'm all of them at one point or another.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: You're not alone in that journey.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: So I need your I need your expertise.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, real quick, it has been six years since we recorded.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: So maybe I you do a quick recap because my thought is you felt that maybe you were a type nine.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure she remembered that, or maybe you wrote it down.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: So I, and I'm still kind of like sticking to that.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: I've viewed off of that through the years just because of different things I've heard.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: But um different friends too that know more about the Enneagram than me.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: I know that this is not supposed to be something you do, but like Lisa Turkers, for instance, she's convinced I'm a nine.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: She's like, you're a nine through and through.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Um because I think Do you know I want to talk to her?
6:14
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think she's really a one.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Like I have read all my things.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: She was a nine.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: Has she told some?
6:21
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: Has she said other um maybe maybe it changed when she spoke to Meek uh because she we were doing a shoot a couple years ago.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: This was maybe two or three years ago.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: So maybe that's changed.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: But still, um yeah, she said she was like, You are a nine because I'm a nine and we have this, is this, you know, um, but mainly people have told me that because nines go to three in health, I think, and they go to sixes, evidently in unhealth.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: And I very much relate to that part of a nine.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: There's other things that I've wondered about, but when I heard that, I was like, Oh, I go to Achiever in Health, uh, you know, from what I've read, and then definitely go to the six in unhealth.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, okay, man.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: So there's some sort of connection there, which is very interesting.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: And now I need to do my fact-checking with Lisa because yeah, I all I know I was going off of who knows, who knows what it was, because I do, I I felt like she has taught me through the years personally, spiritually, and then you know, even in this space that we find ourselves in.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: So I'll have to go back and fact check that.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'd be curious for you to trace some of those patterns, yeah.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: The three and the six, because I I'll say it with this, Lisa removed from the conversation.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: Um I know that there seems to be a large percentage of women that I engage with that are not necessarily in the author space or or online space that are threes.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: But I seemingly have a lot of women who come my way who have a really hard time figuring out their dominant type.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: And it turns out they are a three.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's so the fact that there's a three and a six connection, a nine, all of those, there's this unique triangle.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: I think for women in general, especially depending on our upbringing, that three is a little bit hard to discern because there's so much that we've worked a lot of our lives to not be or do societally or culturally.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: That, and the three is really good at in really looking like all the numbers at some level, it's a skill set.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: Because you can become whatever you need to be.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, which is the reason this is a whole nother, I don't want to keep you forever because I could talk to you about this forever.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: But I love it.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: My book agent Mike, yeah, uh Mike Salisbury, he's a three.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: And so in a lot of our conversations, he's referred in knowing me and in especially in this space, because everybody kind of sees you in these different so in this book world, in this arena, he had very much related to me.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: So he was surprised.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: He was like, Wait, you're not a three.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't know.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: I think I'm a nine, but I think I go to a I don't know.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: So but that I will say that nine six three triangle or whatever you're mentioning, I definitely feel that that I'm somewhere in there.
9:24
SPEAKER_02: And I just don't know how to rank yeah, which comes first.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: But I I definitely think I would be in that that sphere, that triangle.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay, your next step because you have done a lot of work.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: So I feel comfortable in in saying you could probably spend some time with this and get a little bit closer.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: But look at the core motivations, the longings, the desires, and the fears of those three types.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: And and chase a little bit how those have played out from your earliest memories.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: Of you know, and I know that there's you even share in this book where we'll talk about some of the family history there, right?
10:03
SPEAKER_01: That plays into our story.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: It helps us understand not the lens we're looking through, but why we saw things the way we did.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: And experienced it maybe even different than a sibling because of the lens we were looking through.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's so, and that's something I'm walking through, just FY in a great way, is yeah, yeah.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: My siblings are my biggest fans, and so they're cheering me on.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: They're amazing.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: We've we yeah, so but we've talked about it, like just our how we've been raised in the same household, but different wirings and different, obviously, experiences with the same in the same setting.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: And it's just so interesting and fascinating, you know.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: It really is.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really is.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I love that.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: I could talk, I could talk about that forever with you.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: I'd keep you all day.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: So well, I would do it because you'd be taking me off here.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, you are too.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, I what I love is that we did talk about this book idea six years ago, which six years ago.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of life has happened.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Catch me up a little bit more.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: How does it finally feel to bring this vision to life?
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of things that came to life in this time too.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it this this podcast is like, I was gonna tell you this earlier.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: It's so precious to me.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: It's it's unique because you, there are several others, a few others, you and a few other podcast hosts that interviewed me or came to the house six years ago in 2018.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: Let's see, seven years ago.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: So it's just so precious and neat to be able to speak with you about the journey.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, even you having that reference of then and now and um the process and how much has changed and but how much is the same, you know, it's just it's all so beautiful.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: So um, so it's really interesting to like be able to have this talk with you specifically today because I was looking back through old emails 2018 and looking at our conversation.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: I thought, how neat, Lord, that just to see that and just yeah, the change and all of that.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: So it's really cool.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: It's wild.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's wild for sure.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: I know you've learned a lot of things, but what's maybe one or two really surprising lessons you've learned about yourself along the way?
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Because there's a lot in the discipline of writing a book, the process of publishing it, and then we talk about launching, it touches on all of the things.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: If you weren't in therapy before, you need it.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: The house renovation process and the book writing process both have showed me.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I could write a whole book on that about how much, you know, I've learned about myself and the process, how much the Lord has revealed to me and worked through things with me.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: One of the top things I've noticed about myself and that this is highlighted is what a perfectionist I am.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, this whole like yeah, the whole day by day.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, we talk about the journey with Christ, the journey of restoration and all of that, but living that out, um, you know, slowly and methodically, you know, room by room, piece by piece.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: I talk about that a lot in my home renovation process, you know, and that's easy to talk about, but for a recovering perfectionist, what I call myself, living that out has been a whole journey.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: And so I've I've learned so much about um grace and celebrating how far I've come while still looking ahead to things that are still yet to be done and the beauty of that and living in that tension because perfectionism killed so much for me so long and robbed so much joy from the process.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: And so I I from 2018 to now, you know, I was reflecting on it because of this podcast today, and I've changed so much in those areas, and the Lord has really transformed me.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: And um, now I sit here in the house even today.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: There's still work yet to be done.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's I I tell people all the time, like, I'm not gonna step outside the house at any point and tie a big red bow around it and go, okay, ta-da, we're restored.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: It's done.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: Great.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: It's a it's an ever-evolving process, and so I'm learning to celebrate that instead of looking at that as a bad thing.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: Now I celebrate it and I celebrate all that has been done and like I said, all that's to come.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: And so that's so good.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've seen so much transformation in me, in myself, in the process of that, because I'm telling you, as a visionary, like I said, and a perfectionist, I see what I want done and I want it done today.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: And um, and that's in my, you know, a lot of this journey.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: I parallel the house, and then I talk about my soul, and I'm meaning that in both dynamics in the house and the process of restoring the home.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: I want things done today.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: And in my soul, it comes.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: I see what needs to be done or I feel what needs to be done.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, in the past, I've wanted it done right now.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I've really learned about grace as a recovering perfectionist, and I'm learning about finding beauty in the process and not just talking about that, but really living it out, you know.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is I'm living it, people.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: You are.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: I believe that.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: In my coaching process, because over the years I've developed the whole heart of transformation process.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: We utilize Enneagram and different therapy tools and scripture, lots of scripture and spiritual direction.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: One of the steps is naming some of the ideal self things, right?
15:19
SPEAKER_01: The ideals we have, the false self, a lot of it for women really is perfectionism.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: And we we have interesting ideas.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, one of the questions I ask early on, once we identify, and it's really hard, like most of the time, it's very interesting to hear how people identify it at the beginning to then at the end or what we mean along the way.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Because it's our identity, and we're constantly putting our identity in the wrong things instead of in Christ.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: So I I always like to ask at the time, and then continue to ask along the way, if you no longer were driven by that ideal self, and in your words, the perfectionism, yeah, what might change in your day-to-day?
16:04
SPEAKER_01: So I'd be curious for you, I'm putting you on the spot, what's like one thing that you don't strive or work so hard for that used to be this huge burden when you were going after that perfectionism or what we call maybe ideal self?
16:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that perfectionism in my mind kind of created a false protection for me.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what I was protecting myself from, but I think a lot of it had to do with um, I think again, paralleling these two things, the house and my soul and my me, my identity, that perfectionist, I think I thought protected me and made me look okay to people, made me feel, you know, worthy.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: So um if everything could just be perfect enough or, you know, mended enough or healed enough and everything looked okay, then I would be valuable and worthy.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: And but to let anybody in, you know, through this process, that's how I've been transformed in some ways.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: But before early on in my journey, letting people into the real self was so terrifying for me.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I've really prayed through and tried to get to the root of what that was.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, what was I so scared of?
17:17
SPEAKER_02: What was so terrifying?
17:19
SPEAKER_02: Because I'd say, and and you could probably help me with this, but um, I always tell people, and even in the book, I talk a lot about it, but fear and perfectionism were were kind of my two monsters, and that was really layered for me.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: But um, perfectionism was always kind of got, you know, leading me and driving the car, and then fear, um, which kept me really small.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, I didn't want to buy the house.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: I was scared to.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: I didn't want, you know, there were so many decisions that I've kind of had to overcome, you know, that that monster of fear.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, even in writing this book, I tell people and starting my photography business and jumping out, you know, like I did in that, writing this book, buying the house.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: I had to really overcome that monster of fear that tried to push me back and tell me to live so small, you know.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: So um, so yeah.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: So that's a and that's still, like I said, even in this journey right now with doing this, it's new.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm having to kind of face that fear still.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like that external a drive for the perfectionism and even to be at a certain level of accomplishment or finished.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: It was it tied to your feeling of worth and value and how others would receive you or not receive you, or value value you or not value you?
18:42
SPEAKER_02: I think very, very much so, yeah.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't have said it at the time, but I felt like I had to be perfect to be worthy, or I had to be perfect to be valued.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: And so um, if there was a threat to that, you know, I really that perfectionism would go into overdrive.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: And I talk about, you know, in the book, getting, even as a young girl through high school and college, I would strive to get more accolades.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: I would strive to get more, you know, to achieve more and do more.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: And this hamster will of performance just wore me out until I just couldn't do it anymore.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so yeah, I think that perfectionist self, uh, and you might say different.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: I would love to hear your thoughts, but um, you know, was driving that car and um it was just like a raging machine.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: And um, so yeah, for sure.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, I can't help but put my Enneagram coach hat and yeah, think through this, right?
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Because I well, one of the things I would like to know, when did it finally get to the point where you're like, I can't do this anymore?
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Was there a bottom of the you moment or a revelation that happened that you're going, uh, okay, some something's gotta change.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: I can't do this.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm exhausted.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: That yoke that is supposed to be light, yeah, and you know, freeing, it's a burden and it's heavy and it's anything but free.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: I talk in the book about how my mid-20s, I kind of hit a I hit rock bottom in my emotions.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: And I say I was, you know, I'd gone through a lot of trauma in my childhood that I never, even as a believer, even living in a minister's home, I never in a healthy way, we never, I never dealt with it.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: I never really walked through the, you know, healing with the Lord.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: And so went through my college years, my teen years, my college years, thinking Bible school would fix me, thinking all these outer things would fix me, and none of them did.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: And I hit this rock bottom moment in my mid-20s where I say I was bleeding out.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: Like I was just, it was almost like I was putting band aids over bullet holes and just bleeding out because pain demands to be felt.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: And I was just in really, I see that moment now as grace because it's what really brought me freedom.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: But I um began to take some really huge practical steps at that time in my life, mid into my late 20s.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, in um what my journey looked like was I started seeing a great counselor and began to let her in on like living in true humility and true vulnerability and letting her into.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: And this was this is crazy to say, this was, I would say, probably the first time in my whole life I'd done this, where I I really truly lived before another person in truth.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: And just without a mask.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, without a mask, with no no image to upkeep, no hamster will of performance.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: And I sat before her and um and I tell this story in the book, and just I was real raw and honest about the trauma I had been through, about the wounds, about how hard my parents' divorce had been as the oldest of four kids, you know, on me, um, some sexual abuse I'd experienced, all these things I had never talked about.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: That were just building up in my soul.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: And I was just shoving down and shoving down and shoving down.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: But like I said, pain demands to be felt.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: And God cares about our pain.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: And so I um it's all grace now.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: I see it as all grace, but went to her and began to let her in on um, you know, I it like in James talks about confess your faults one to another so that you may be healed.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: I did that.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: I started practicing that biblical.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: I started doing that.
22:26
SPEAKER_02: And and uh the word works and I began to be transformed.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: I it's you know, it's a mystery.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how all of it works, but the word works.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: And so I began to open up my life to her.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: I began to open up my life to other healthy believers and begin to walk through.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: That's really when I started the journey of restoration, the true journey of restoration in my life and um and allowing, taking some of those practical steps and allowing people in.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, and there are other practical things, but that was kind of the start of me letting down and allowing people to see the real me.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, and what I say is giving Jesus the keys to these rooms that I had locked up so tight, you know, um for so for survival that were caused for survival.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: That's it.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, I was just I was just carrying these wounds, like a like a suitcase with me everywhere I went.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: And um, he wanted to free me from those things, you know.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: And uh that was what began my real process of restoration.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: And again, it's been a process, right?
23:32
SPEAKER_02: Um I talk about that a lot, a beautiful process.
23:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I hope that answers your question.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of the beginning of how I began to seek healing and um, you know, in my journey.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: I have this phrase that came from a number of different things and influences, I'm sure, but I use it with my coaches a lot and my clients, but we're all broken, we're all blowing it.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: The brave one does something about it.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think that right there, I love that.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: It's just what you talked about, though.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: We all have that brokenness.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: We can come from what other people might perceive as a perfect, yeah, together, totally non-broken family, and yet there'd be so much devastation.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah now there may not be that much devastation in our friend's life who's listening, but there are small tea traumatic moments.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: There is brokenness.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: We're on this side of heaven.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: We are going to experience brokenness.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: And we are we have all sinned and we've all fallen short of the glory of God and we need him.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: And so there, you know, in Romans 8.28.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: And so it's the like we're broken, we're blowing it, we're gonna mess it up.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: But you just illustrated such a brave moment that I think is worth highlighting.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: I know you didn't ever do it thinking someday I'm gonna write a book about this.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's probably the last thing on your mind.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: It takes bravery and and the kind of un to that, you've really done the work, you're still doing the work.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna raise my hand too, still doing the work.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: How do you go from working it in your personal life to being willing to share some of that?
25:17
SPEAKER_01: The you know, some of the details and the especially like before when the first person to know most of the things is a paid for counselor no one else knows.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: And then like that's that is a marked that is marking the healing for sure, or like you know, like yeah, displaying the healing, but there's a lot more that has transpired to get you to this point.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: Oh, totally.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I will say that even the healing, like I said, the process of healing has been that exactly what that says, a process, um, a journey.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: And I knew in my heart, even as my story was unfolding, I've been really careful and I encourage listeners to do this too about the timing.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: You know, I knew that the Lord would ever have me share, that I would know the right timing, um, that I would be in the place that, you know, I was healed enough to share.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, but really in my journey is I I was doing the grit work for a lot of years in the unseen, you know, just doing the grit work um and healing and it wasn't on display.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I never knew this was gonna be a book.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: I never knew I purchased the house and it would ever become, you know, anything.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: But over the years, um, I think what's fueled me, Amy, is um, you know, people that have written me, and all of us, like you said, have um chapter one of my book is called Paradise Lost.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, I share not like super details about my story, but enough of it to where people see brokenness and pain and trauma.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: And not all of our stories are the same, like you said, we're all different, but everyone has seen themselves in my story.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: Everybody has experienced, like you said, whether it be if we want to label it, you know, big T, little T, all of us are born into this broken world.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: And everybody I've talked to has said, you know what, Michelle, like my story is different than yours, but I I resonate with you.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: I've I had something happen in my life that just has kind of marked me and wounded me, and I've had trouble rebuilding from it.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: It's it's kind of marked my soul.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I talk about things in my life that I feel like kind of crushed my spirit.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: They like broke my spirit as a young girl, and even in a minister's home, and how the Lord has come in and rebuilt me and restored me.
27:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's given me the fuel.
27:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, I I've really been careful about the timing, but um, it's been really beautiful over the years as the Lord's healed me and I've heard other people's stories.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: That's really fueled me and given me confirmation that it's time, you know, it's time to share my story.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: It's time to live from a healed place and live from the overflow and help now help others.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, because there's so much brokenness in the world, you know.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: Right now, I really do feel that the book is for such a time as this the whole restorative word and the restoration, restoration message.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's so much brokenness in the world, is crying out and groaning for restoration.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, all of our stories look different, but we all relate and come together in that.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: And that's what Christ has come to do is restore us and make us new.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: He is the only answer.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so yeah, so that's been my fuel.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, even in the timing of all this and my healing journey, but I do feel like uh for such a time as this, like it's a now, now word for people, you know.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have thought about the book often for a number of reasons.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Like it has been on my heart, seriously.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you know, yeah, that really does hearing that.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: What I love is that we have each other's phone numbers.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: So the random text out of the blues, super fun.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: But I love it.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: It is the parable of the story because and I I live in a city in particular that has been really impacted by um massive leadership failure in the Christian church.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: And uh the whole nation has been impacted.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: I just can't think of a corner of a country that doesn't have some well-known leader who has fallen and turns out their life, you know, is very different than what was perceived or or could be seen.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: And in that, it is the conversation of deconstruction, right?
29:26
SPEAKER_01: That has come up often.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: And where I have really wrest through is understanding people do need to unpack what um isn't right and it's good.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: But I've likened it to this picture of where, you know, when we talked about a lot of this process where there's a lot of the bones are still good.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: There's still structural things that are sound and solid, but we might need to knock out some walls and you know, take out some moldy insulation or you know, like different pieces absolutely need to come down and and out and never back again.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: But the idea itself of church and the body of Christ and that there can be healthy leadership and this lived out well to me is displayed in the evidence of restored the story itself, your process of rebuilding.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: To me, I just I'm like, yes.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this was how how was this not written before?
30:26
SPEAKER_01: It's just brilliant.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, thank you, Amy.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: That means so much to me.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I totally agree with everything you said.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: And I it's funny that you mentioned that.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: You're the first podcast host that's mentioned that specific angle of the world right now and culture and what we're as the body of Christ kind of walking through together.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I but I have thought many times, even in writing this book, that was a burden on my heart because in writing it last year, you know, now it's coming out last year, all year I was writing it, putting pen to paper.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: And I was seeing these stories, even in the body of these ministries that I loved and respected, you know.
31:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that was on my heart in a really deep way.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: And I myself feel like it's even a now word for ministers.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: And I've had absolutely I've had um, and I'll share this.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: I've I've had a lot of ministers write me privately.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, I feel like this message is for Christians and non-Christians alike because the world is crying out for restoration and healing.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: But I've even had ministers um trust me and just say, hey, I resonate with this.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: Like I've watched some of your story and kind of watched how you've in an honest way walked through some of these deep places and deep hurts, even from your childhood with the Lord and how he's brought you true healing and transformation.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I kind of breezed past those things and now I'm in ministry and I'm dealing with this in my soul, but I'm on a public platform and I need healing.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: And so I've been able to encourage some of those people, um, you know, from like I said, my journey.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: And um, because we all have them, you know, but I just don't think we correctly, we don't, I don't think we correctly um walk through those places with the Lord.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: And um so anyway, so that's so interesting that you brought that up.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: And I do, I agree with you.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh restoration is more about the building up than it is about just the tearing down.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: And I talk about that in the book.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so yeah, I really do.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: I believe with all my heart it's a now word, like in season for the body of Christ.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: And the Lord has restoration and healing for us.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: But we just, like the subtitle says, we have to partner with him.
32:37
SPEAKER_02: We have a pla a part to play in the process.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: As a I talk about this a lot too, as a charismatic Pentecostal.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, I used to love to stand at the altars and just pray that all these things would just rain down and that healing and the Lord did have those things for me, but there was a process, there was a part to play.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a part that depended on me.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: You know, the Lord does the work, but it's up to me to say yes, and it's up to me to apply the word to my life, and it's up to me to walk in faith and all those things.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: So, um, so that's been, you know, part of the process too.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: And when I really began to experience and not just hear about it, but like experience that John 10 life where I was living in abundance from my soul suddenly, instead of performing and being on this hamster wheel and laying my head on the pillow at night and thinking, God, I don't, I don't understand the John 10-10 thing that you promise.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: I feel anxious and depressed.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, now I'm I'm at a point in life where I'm living from that abundance of soul that I don't want to escape from, you know.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: And that's come through just the work of the spirit, and he's healed places that I thought could never be healed and transformed me.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: And it's been a work of the Holy Spirit, and I'm so grateful.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: And um, so yeah.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we just have hosted a the whole hearted abundance summit, and the core verse was John 10:10.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like we unpacked it in a few different ways.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: One is the first part of that verse is so real, spiritual warfare is evident all around us.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: And if we begin to name the real enemy, not the people, not even the institutions, the enemy is out to steal, kill, and destroy.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And when we we do that, we can do an about face and begin to battle with prayer, rattle with scripture, put on the full armor of God, know your enemy, then right, know your enemy, and then that step of obedience.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Obedience might look like being fully transparent and vulnerable with a paid-for counselor or coach, yeah, practicing confession as the Bible invites us to, like doing these steps of obedience, acting in faith and out of a place that God loves us first.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: And then there is an amazing transformation, as you said, that we we can't do, we do partner, but the spirit fully does the work in us.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: So we can, regardless of our circumstances, begin to uh really receive all the abundance the Lord has for us because the abundance is not circumstantially dependent.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Right, it comes from that inner place as we do those steps going forward.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: And I know you can testify to that.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: I certainly do the whole reason why I'm doing it.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: So good pumps me up hearing you talk about it because I relate so much.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: And I always say that I do the work God asks me to do, and He does the work I could never do.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: You know, and so that's that that's kind of sums up this whole process of healing in me is I do what he's asked me to do, and that's it, which is a lot of times trust, obey, surrender.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: Like you said, partner with the word, confess, be vulnerable, you know, apply the word to my life.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: And in that, the Lord has done a work that I could never do.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: I could never put all this together if I tried on my best day.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, or organized any of this.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: So um, so yeah, I so relate so deeply to everything you're saying and say yes and amen.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: I know we could we could be preaching together all day.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: I want to come, you're making me want to come to the summit or whatever you're doing.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: I might have to gift you this session summit so when you travel, you can download and listen.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, because I I think you'd really be blessed by it.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: And I I want to touch on this because a couple times you've talked about it being a timely word.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: Not only in the moment of history we find ourselves in, but even in this time of year, the book's coming out a couple weeks before Easter.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's a time of spring.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Tell me about that because personally, and I know that you have experienced this at some level too.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: Like it's been years of winter for me.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think spring is just around the corner.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: I I sense some of those buds and things like that, but it's more in my own heart than circumstances.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Just talk to me about you know, Easter, spring, your book coming out, restoration, the meaning for you and all of that.
37:12
SPEAKER_02: I love, I love the parallel you made there.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, you've just been speaking my language the whole time.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: This whole podcast.
37:19
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I remember having, like I talk about even on here, I've I've said a lot about it being a process and a journey.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: And there have been, like I said, I'm I don't want people to think that I'm, you know, I'm gonna tie this big red bow around the house and it's gonna, it's perfect.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: And it's, you know, there's been a lot of grip work.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: There's been a lot of days I've woken up and it's been really hard.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, restoration can be hard on certain days, and I've wanted to quit.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: And I remember I was um in 2019, I was just having a moment where personally, and then with the house, you know, in my soul and my healing journey, I just felt overwhelmed.
37:52
SPEAKER_02: I felt like some of these emotional mountains were too big, and I just simply could not do it.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: On top of that, I was restoring the house, you know, as a single woman, and they were practically, I was like, I just can't do all this.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, I was talking on the phone to a friend, Christy Knockles, who is so precious.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: And the Lord is we all love, the Lord has used her in my life uh in so many beautiful ways, but we were voice memoing back and forth.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: We love, we call them voice memo podcasts.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: We send to each other.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and probably someday, you know, release some of those into the world so we can all learn.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: I know we should do it, we should do it.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: But she was talking to me.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, I was just sharing my heart and being vulnerable with her and some of the things I was feeling and sensing.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: And she said something to me, and all of a sudden the spirit really just quickened.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: Like when she said this word, it just in my heart, she said, you know, she goes, never forget, he makes dead things live.
38:43
SPEAKER_02: He makes dead things live again.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: And um, so even in hearing, you know, you talk about Easter and Lent and this process of you know, what Lent, that's what Lent is, overcoming darkness and this journey of hope and renewal and repentance and grit in all these things I'm talking about.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, and as we're moving toward the promise of life and life more abundant.
39:08
SPEAKER_02: And that promise is sure, and that promise is there.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: And so I love that you paralleled the book with even this time.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, that's so amazing, even the timing of it coming out, because um, that's what the book really encompasses is that journey of coming darkness and the grit and the journey of hope and renewal as we move toward the promise of restoration, which is all of our promise, all of our hope.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's key.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: You even talk about moving toward because Easter, there is an essence of like there is a culmination or climax of the story.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: But to be fair, it's also just the beginning.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: And as you said, right?
39:51
SPEAKER_01: There's never this big red bow that we get to tie on our lives or on the house and go, da-da-da, nothing ever has to be done again.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Completely.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: It is the ongoing, it is the imitation for the ongoing work of falling in love more with God and becoming more like Him and our obedience and sacrifice and everything involved in that, and therefore sanctification.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I mean, the word itself, even you know, denotes there there is a moment, but then there's so much more.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:29
SPEAKER_02: So I always say on this side of heaven, um, there's so much more, more beauty, more promise, more healing, more, you know, all those things.
40:36
SPEAKER_02: There's always it's kind of like instead of a period, it's a dot, dot, dot as we're moving, yes, like you said, towards heaven.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, yes, and I love ellipsis.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh grammarly, my fact checker is always judging me about my ellipsis.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, no, we need more of it.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: So that's right.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: I our time is going by so quickly, but I do want to make sure people know the uniqueness of this book.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: And so because if they didn't know, you are this gifted seems like a tri word, but you are a very gifted photographer.
41:15
SPEAKER_01: You get to capture people who are really well known and beautiful moments and honest moments.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: You capture something that most people kind of, it's it's an art form.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: So I say all of that like sincerely, it's true.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: You you definitely want to go follow Michelle for the book, but also the photography.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: So you've combined these gifts.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: So I what I thought I'd love for you to describe so those who are listening can kind of hear what to expect in the book that it's it's more than just nonfiction.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: There's yeah, um, you know, and that's funny.
41:53
SPEAKER_02: That actually just came out of um it was kind of birthed out of just my wiring, Amy.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: I tell people, yeah, I wish I could have dreamed up this really cool project where I bought this old house and you know, I restored it and took pictures and wrote about, but really that that was a day-by-day process.
42:10
SPEAKER_02: Um truly organic.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: Truly organic, yeah.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: For so for the Lord, um, in his sovereignty and love to put a girl like me in this house with my story, you know, um, I just began in 2018, you know, the story um, because we did the podcast before, but I was purchasing my first home and I come across this old rundown farmhouse that I just felt drawn to love back to life.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I in the beginning I'd had kind of my sights set on newer, better houses that were more done, but this something about this house just drew me in and purchased it and began to go in, you know, room by room, piece by piece.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: And um, I wish I could have done like an HGTV move that bus overnight, overnight thing, you know, where it's like move that bus and it's perfect.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: But that just wasn't the process that um the Lord had for me or that I chose.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: So I began to go in each room, and like I said, the house was um pretty, pretty run down.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: And I would go in each room and and gut the room and see the potential, and I began to go in and restore the room, you know, room by room, like I said, piece by piece, and the whole house started beginning, you know, it began to come together.
43:21
SPEAKER_02: And I naturally, as a photographer, took pictures, you know, of these before and afters and began to write about the process.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: And then as I began to do that and flow in that and move in that, well, then the Lord began to liken it under my story and me as a living house, like C.S.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: Lewis said.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: Imagine yourself as a living house and God comes in to rebuild that house.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: And so I began to parallel these two things and write.
43:50
SPEAKER_02: And then out of the overflow of that, just begin to share.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: It was like so deep in, you know, it was so embedded in me just because of my story and uh what I was walking through personally.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: And so the Lord began to use that.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: I began to share about it, you know, on Instagram or on my social media platforms as a photographer, you know, just began to share and prayed that it would encourage people and began to put it out in the world.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, that reson, you know, that deeply resonated with people.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: And there's something about, you know, I talk about how it's a modern day parable.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, Jesus chose to teach in parables for a reason.
44:25
SPEAKER_02: There's something about people seeing imagery with teaching, and there's something about the way the Lord uses it.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: And so this book is unique.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, even in some of the images that we chose to pair with writing.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: And um, in some of my people that close to me that have read the early copies, they have all said to me, you know, oh my God, you know, goodness, as I'm reading the book, the way the words and then you seeing the image, the way the Lord uses that to speak is just so deep and so rich and so powerful.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: So I'm so grateful for it because I do feel like I've kind of pioneered this thing.
45:03
SPEAKER_02: I've um I've never seen really, I don't think I've never seen another book really like it.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm excited to see um how the Lord uses it in the earth and how he brings healing to people um and how he uses, I can't wait to hear the feedback, you know, how he uses the writing and the story, but also how he uses the imagery and how that speaks to people.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, but like I said, it was something that I kind of walked into.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: I didn't, I didn't plan it or foresee it.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: It just was something I said yes to.
45:31
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, publishers reached out and um and it's become a book.
45:36
SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, that's how that's how it was birthed.
45:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: So, so naturally you and I want to just make a note of the time frame because you mentioned this as a an aspect of your personality, and I do hear this frequently, especially in this space.
45:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have a vision, and that vision feels like a now moment.
45:58
SPEAKER_01: And God is saying, No, your now moment is five, six, seven, ten, twenty.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: And so I I think this is a beautiful testimony to that, where what even you shared six, seven years ago on the podcast, yeah, is even more beautiful now because of the refining that's been through.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: And there has been some costs to pay.
46:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: But it's it's even more beautiful to those who are going to get to encounter it and yeah, absorbing the beauty of the pictures and just all of I think the visual appeal alone is going to create such a unique reach.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: So kudos on just staying the course and staying in the race.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: We all need to be reminded.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: It it was a vision you had and it is fulfilled now.
46:44
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, it I'm I know we all get in the middle of it and it is the messy middle, and we wonder what the heck?
46:52
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have a section called waiting in the mess, because that's what most of these days I've had stuff like I was doing, you know.
47:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, now people see this book, and maybe some of the people are first hearing about me and they see the finished product and they think, oh wow, you know, this has been a lived out process.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: And I talk a lot in the book about waiting and beauty that's found in waiting.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: And there's some things and some treasures that the Lord only gives to us through the process of waiting.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
47:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, so lean in, you know, for followers or listeners that are listening, if you're in a waiting period, you know, lean into that and um partner with the Lord in your waiting.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: And there's treasures there to be found um in those tough places.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: Beautifully said.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, Shaley, I can't wait to continue the Enneagram piece of this conversation.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait either.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: I do.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: I think it to me when I I'll be really curious to hear my friends' feedback who know the Neogram, because there were some real strong indicators to me that I'm like, oh, this seems like a road to go down.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: I tell people who I'm helping, or just in general, when we're having these conversations, is that you try on the types like a garment you picked out at the store and it looked okay in the fitting room, but then you take it home and you start pairing it with your favorite jeans or your other accessories, and you're like, I'm not sure if this would work.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: So do that with the court desires, longings, all of that.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: I I think three, six, nine are worth looking at and and playing with a little bit more.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I do too because I go, I go back and forth between mainly the the three and the nine.
48:37
SPEAKER_02: Um not as much the six.
48:39
SPEAKER_02: I definitely think I go to six.
48:41
SPEAKER_02: I relate to that in unhealth.
48:43
SPEAKER_02: I can become way like real when I'm tired.
48:46
SPEAKER_02: I noticed this a lot when I was traveling a ton with my, you know, with photography for years, when I would get overworked and you know, tired and just gone, gone from home too much.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: Get into that anxious, you know, glass half empty, everything's wrong, all the what ifs, I'm scared of everything, you know, that whole thing.
49:05
SPEAKER_02: So yes, I don't know.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, it's it's so interesting to me, but I definitely, like I said, think I'm in that triangle somewhere of three, six or nine.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: So the only one that I would throw in there, just because we were talking about the word perfectionist, I see you using the word from a different place.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: But the one is often known as struggling with perfectionism.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think we all do for different reasons.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I'm like, I feel like that's an aside.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: It's worth looking at the core longings for the one.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: But I I think you're really close.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: And so we'll have to do a follow-up and play this out a little bit more.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: I would love to do that so much.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: That'd be so fun.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's also interesting to me.
49:47
SPEAKER_02: So I'd love it.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, Michelle, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm sad that it's been so long since you've paid a visit, but you've been doing the work and um hopefully that you can, you know, just come up back on again soon and we can chat and just I'd love it.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: So proud of you for doing this work and getting it out in the world.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: And I know it's gonna impact a lot of lives.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: So well done.
50:12
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, friend.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that so much.
50:14
SPEAKER_02: And thanks for having me on.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I love and respect you, and I know this is a sacred space.
50:19
SPEAKER_02: So honored to be here.
50:20
SPEAKER_02: And um, I want to come back and talk to you.
50:23
unknown: Yay!
50:23
SPEAKER_01: Great, awesome.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: Let's schedule it.
50:25
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
50:28
SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: I was really sad to have an end.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: And admittedly, after we stopped recording, we chatted a little bit longer until both of us were late for our next thing.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: But I hope that the goodness that you heard today ministered to you, encouraged you, or maybe even gave you some clarity about something in your life, whether it's as big as writing a book, or it's just putting yourself out there in boldness and opening your heart and your life to relationships and friendships, or maybe it's even exploring more about your personality type.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's been a little unclear and you're not quite sure, like Michelle shared today.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: And also, I think I've talked her into coming back on the podcast and talking more about her Enneagram journey.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: So be looking for that.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: I hope that we get to record that conversation soon.
51:23
SPEAKER_01: But in the meantime, friend, I would love for you to go grab Michelle's new book, Restored Partnering with God and Transforming Our Broken Places.
51:31
SPEAKER_01: Like I mentioned, it is a beautiful work of art alongside wise words that have been lived well.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: And as always, if you need a guide by the side to help you restore whether it's relationships, your faith, or maybe even your engagement with community, I would love to help you take that next right step.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: It's easy to book that call with me, and I hope that I get to chat with you soon.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Because remember, friend, we're all broken.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: We're all blowing it, but the bright one does something about it.