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The Truth About Mass Tort Payouts No One Explains to Clients · The Jon and Marc Podcast

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There are a few universal best practices. 1 is have good
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command of your systems and your data.
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Another thing is like select good partners.
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If you're working with third parties, marketing companies, or
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it's it's data vendors, or if it's case management software,
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make sure that they understand if you're in mass tort, what a
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mass tort case is and what it looks like and what you need in
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order to prove that case down the line.
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Welcome back to the John and Mark podcast.
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We're here today with Executive Vice President of Mass Torts at
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Archer. This is Gary Goldberg.
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You may recognize Gary. He's at every one of these
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events. We're at national trailers right
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now. I think last time I saw you is
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that mass Torts made perfect. He's at all the events and
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Archer is involved in the background on a lot of the
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things that happened with mass torts.
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And that all basically runs through Gary.
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So thank you very much for joining us today.
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We're going to talk a lot about the way mass torts work on the
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back end, because usually we're talking about it on the front
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end. Hey, it's Mark.
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Before we dive into this episode, we just want to say
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that we built our digital around 1 simple idea.
1:13
Law firms do not need more random marketing activity, they
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need more assigned cases. That's why we handle everything
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from advertising to social media with a founder LED approach that
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keeps the strategy tight and the work accountable to a real
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outcome. Stop chasing vanity metrics and
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get more cases. Go to rrdigitalmedia.com For
1:32
more information. Let's get back to the episode
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you work on. The exact opposite.
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In the business that we work, we're on the front end on the
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lead. In case generation side, you're
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on the exact opposite end of what happens after a case
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settles, money gets distributed and how it gets to the end
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client. Yeah, why everybody's doing this
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in the first place? Yes, we deal with many law firms
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that are involved in personal injury, masks towards a big pain
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point for law firms is dealing with the client expectations of,
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hey, I heard there was this settlement.
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I mean, there was just recently. You've got settlements all
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across spectrum, which is actually great for the plaintiff
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space. But you can look at like the JDC
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settlement in California, right? It hits the news and then
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someone who signed up with a law firm, they're like, OK, when am
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I getting my money? And then the law firms have to
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deal with that pushback and not really having answers in a mass
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tort case. How What does that timeline
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normally look like for when a case settles until when people
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actually get their money? And how does Archer get involved
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in that process? Yeah, going right to the heart
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of the matter. No, we we do not mess around
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here. I'll give you some softballs
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later. Well, first of all, thank you
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very much for for having me on. I, I love the podcast.
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So it's a really an honor to be here and, and talk about
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something that that might be a little different than than some
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of your other guests have discussed, but ultimately is as
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eminently important as we mentioned.
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It's the way that if you are participating in a mass tour,
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you ultimately get compensated and how your clients are going
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to get compensated, which is why we're we're all doing this in,
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in the 1st place. So managing client expectations
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is really like one of the cardinal rules, the name of the
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game, right? Because let's call the average
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mass tour claimant does not have a very good clear perception or
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conception of what a mass tort is and what the litigation
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process is going to look like. Maybe they've been exposed to
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courtroom dramas and they think that a decision is going to be
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made and checks are going to be cut within 1/2 hour's time of
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that episode, right? Maybe they have been really well
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educated on what the litigation process looks like, but the
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ongoing communication throughout the life cycle of the mass tort
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doesn't keep them abreast of the developments, the twists and
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turns, the decisions that come down from the court that might
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delay things. Maybe they're not aware of all
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the back end things that we have to do, all the gates that we
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have to jump through as an administrator to ultimately put
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money in their pocket or not. And so unlike a typical maybe
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call wreck case or other single event personal injury case where
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it tends to be somewhat linear and the facts of that case can
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lead to a reasonably good projection of what that outcome
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is going to be. Mass torts have all of these
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different variables that play in.
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And then when you lay on top of that, the idea that sometimes
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there are bellwether trials, right, which are a small, tiny
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sampling of the overall claimant population in a mass tort, but
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may make huge headlines. This particular claimant got a
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$200 million verdict. There was a billion dollar puny
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here. There's all this stuff that
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makes headlines and mass tort claim to say, well I want one of
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those not realizing how it really works.
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Well, not even necessarily knowing that they're part of a
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mass tort, right? Like I signed up my Ozempic
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claim and Ozempic is actually a part of this bigger consolidated
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litigation that has many other people who are in the same boat
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as you are, who are hoping for the same outcome as everybody
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else's. And it's the the expectation
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managing when again, on on our side of this, like a claimant or
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potential claimant is responding to an ad or they're, you know,
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doing a search and one of our clients are coming up and like
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connecting that all the way through to like the end state,
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knowing all of the work that goes on in between is you can't
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expect them to truly understand it.
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Well, and even the most educated and seasoned people who work in
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and around mass torts have a hard time handicapping and
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forecasting these things anyways, right?
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You talk to litigation funders, they can't adequately, in many
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cases, if you ask them, and this is just my opinion, not that of
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Archer, always accurately forecast the duration risk of
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their collateral. Because maybe we're going to get
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a certain court decision that pushes things out.
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Things go on delay. There's all these variables.
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So those sort of macro issues are really hard to understand
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for an injured person who is going through something
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traumatic. It's the biggest thing going on
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in their lives possibly at that point in time, and they will
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passionately believe that they have an excellent case that
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deserves compensation, but they're tied to this bigger ship
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that's moving through the ocean. So during this process, Archer
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is the administrator of the settlement funds and the
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distribution, correct? Right.
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So are you a client of the law firms?
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Are you a client of the clients? Are you a client of the court?
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How does that work? That's a great question.
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Ultimately, Archer acts as a neutral in the process, right.
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Our job is to deal with with facts, deal with the parameters
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established by a master settlement agreement, deal
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within the bounds of the various statutes governing liens and and
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3rd party recoveries from from whether it's bankruptcy
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trustees, health insurance collectors, government agencies
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and so forth. So we have this big lattice of
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rules that we as an administrator have to go through
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and check the box 1 by 1 until money can actually go out the
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door and to attorneys and and injured folks alike.
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So every project is unique. We try our best really to, to
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standardize our offerings and, and, and try to create
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uniformity across all these programs, but they truly are all
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unique from the underlying injuries to the individual
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litigation dynamics to the terms in these master settlement
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agreements, not to mention the evolution that can happen just
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within the industry and with other third parties We deal with
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from mass tort to mass tort, which can be months or years for
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certain classifications of torts.
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So it's it's constantly evolving and that's why we as an
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organization are working very hard to create as much
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predictability and transparency in the process as possible.
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And we've come a long way in doing that.
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But frankly, there are a lot of things that are out of our
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control. But ultimately we are a neutral
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party. I would say more often than not,
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it is the plaintiff's executive or plaintiff steering committee
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who will make a decision about who the third party vendor or
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vendors will be in the administration context.
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But it's got to often be signed off on by the defense,
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especially if the defense is contributing to to paying for
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that administration. A lot of times the courts have
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to be involved and approve you. Sometimes there's a special
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master involved, but that's generally speaking the dynamic
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we're we're dealing with. We'll talk about the plaintiff
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side more because that's what what we know much more about.
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When you're working with plaintiff firms and you have
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multiple firms that are involved in the acquisition process.
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So many times you'll have a firm that generates a case and they
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refer it to the handling firm. Sometimes it goes to another
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jump along the way. What is your involvement with
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those different stakeholders? Or is it just with one?
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Staying focused for for a second on the claims administration
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post settlement administration role, I think it's helpful for,
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for those that that don't understand all the way that Mass
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Torch can sell or resolve to understand that they generally
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come in three flavors, right? 1 is what we call a global
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settlement. That is where a defendant says,
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you know what? We're out.
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White flag, we're out and we're going to settle with all firms.
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Anybody who's got a, you know, a filed case or toll case or
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whatever we want out of this in its entirety.
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And those settlements can take on a few different forms.
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There could be a fund established where they say, OK,
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we're going to put X amount of dollars aside and if cases meet
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a certain criteria, OK, they're going to get paid out of this
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pot of money. We've seen instances, for
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example, let's look at the NFL concussion settlement, right,
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which is a different structure, says we're globally resolving
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all these cases, but we're going to establish sort of an uncapped
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fund with qualification criteria if you want to apply and get
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money from the fund. We've seen other different
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hybrid arrangements. We've seen, particularly with
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chronic disease cases, situations where defense will
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say, OK, we're going to pay some for now and we're also going to
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set aside some money for future injuries and other claims that
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might come out of the woodwork. As you know, their diseases
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metastasize and become evident, right?
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So a global settlement, broadly speaking, takes out all the
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cases. Then you could have individual
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case or firm inventory settlements or docket
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settlements where one law firm settles directly with the
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defendant for all of their mass store cases and it doesn't
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necessarily affect anybody else. And then there's sort of a
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hybrid arrangement which we call the consortium, where it's a
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group of law firms that come together and they say, well,
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what about our cases? We believe that these are right
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for settling for any number of different reasons.
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We've got a group of law firms. Let's settle these cases.
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So our and John, this is getting back to your original question.
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Our involvement with the stakeholders depends a lot on
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the form of the settlement because in a global settlement
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we really might only be dealing directly with the executive
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committee or steering committee decision makers on behalf of the
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whole global. But we have to communicate with
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the individual law firms that have cases, even if they're not
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in a decision making capacity, on who's doing the
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administration. Got it.
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You're this like wizard behind the curtain that handles a lot
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of the things that that people don't know about go on during
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the process. Can you talk about a little bit
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about like what actually has to happen after a case winds up
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resolving to kind of get through that marathon that has to start
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only when the case actually winds up getting to a point of a
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global? Settlement.
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Say there's a global settlement. What is that actual?
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Like educate us because I have no idea.
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Yeah, I'll, I'll try to give you a, a pretty straightforward sort
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of base case that captures the most common situations, right.
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So let's say there's a global settlement.
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A lot of times the global settlements will will be in
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agreement. In principle, there might be
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some sort of MOU, some sort of term sheet, but the exact
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specifications of the Master Settlement agreement are not yet
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decided. That's a process that can take
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several months as it gets fully papered up.
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They've settled but not like have a contract the full.
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It's like a term sheet. It's a term sheet.
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And so when we when we talk about managing client
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expectations, again, the headline reach says this big
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settlements reach and immediately injured folks are
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saying, well, where's my check? The deal is not done yet, right?
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It's been announced, but there are particulars to work out.
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So that may take a few months. And then let's say in, in the
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course of normal events, we're appointed in this scenario as
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claims administrator, lean resolution, qualified settlement
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fund administrator. For the sake of simplicity,
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there will be a process of gathering information.
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Maybe the information on claimants is already in a
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database somewhere. Maybe it needs to be collected
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from all the firms. But at some point, we have to
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get our hands on claimant data to do our jobs.
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A lot of times we'll work in conjunction with a special
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master third party neutral who's going to decide how are these
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funds going to be split up? We have a pot of money in a
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global settlement fund. How much of that is going to go
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to this injury and this injury and this injury or this injury
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category and these other categories or how much is going
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to be set aside for enhanced injuries, right.
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So truly catastrophic situations versus sort of the the normal
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base case. This is like commonly referred
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to like the settlement matrix. Settlement matrix is a is a
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great example of it. You can think of it as a grid,
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right? And there's a lot of different
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ways to design these grids, but if you meet certain criteria on
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the X axis and a certain on the Y, that's how much you may be
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awarded. So this process alone can also
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take a few additional months. And we are in an interesting
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position when it comes to lean resolution, which lean
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resolution is the bane of a lot of people's existence, right,
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because it means a third party is taking part of the
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settlements. But it also represents an
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additional time lag that we've got to to manage.
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So the demographics of the case may dictate which agencies we
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have to deal with the most. You have an older population.
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Medicare could have hundreds of millions or billions of dollars
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of recovery rights in that case. And so we've got to go work out
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deals with them. The 50 state Medicaid agencies,
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every health plan in America, the military plan, so on and so
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forth. So all these things are sort of
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happening simultaneously and it's a big dance.
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Who's going to qualify? What is the criteria under the
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Master Settlement Agreement for who qualifies?
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Who's making those decisions? What are the terms of the MSA
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say? How much are people actually
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getting? So we can tell collectors how
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much they're getting and then we can start the process of
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actually negotiating and finalizing all these leads.
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And then you have other issues that pop up like probate.
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Some of the mass source we're dealing with right now, they've
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been going on for so long, People are dead, people are
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dying. So a good tip from a just
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practice management standpoint is making sure as your clients
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are are getting older, they might pass away, that you know
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who the representatives are, you know, if they have a will
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because a lot of money can get stuck in probate.
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We we can all think of big mass torts out there right now that
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have ultimately older populations, serious chronic
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diseases, high rates of deceased individuals.
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And then you have bankruptcies, right?
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And a lot of people can't work. They've been very sick.
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We see a high rate of bankruptcies within mass torts.
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Those issues have to be worked out because a lot of times the
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bankruptcy trustees will make a claim against the settlement as
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well. So it's all this stuff, right,
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That if you're a mass tort claimant and you see the
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headline, we don't know all this is going on behind the scenes.
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Mass tort can have between 5300 thousand people as part of it.
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Tons, tons of people. How has your world been impacted
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by the growth in fraud in the mass tort space?
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It's been obviously a hot topic, right, For the past couple
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years, yeah. So it's a, it's an interesting
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question because ultimately when, when cases get to the
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point that we're in this, this post settlement context, right?
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And we're, we're looking at who's going to get paid and,
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and, and how much. There more often than not has
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been a significant amount of vetting done through various
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channels, various methods, whether it's I could be a Lone
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Pine order from the court that says you have to prove up
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certain metrics, certain characteristics of your case
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before they can even advance to a certain point.
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A lot of times the defendants will have their counsel or the
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counselor will have a vendor involved in also vetting cases,
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right, using technology and research tools and databases and
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so forth to see, OK, are these real living individuals, we need
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certain proof before they can move on to another stage in the
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process. So we need to see the medical
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records, we need to see clear evidence of damages.
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And these have to be, we need to have a fulsome set of data
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before anybody can get paid. So one of our jobs on the back
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end, and I think it's, it's sort of inherent in all the data
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we're already collecting is, you know, we've got to have a name
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and a Social Security number and an address and all the sort of
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requisite pieces of information across the board.
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And then we do data scrubbing, We do things to verify the case
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and then you have supporting pieces of information.
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So by the time it gets downstream to us or ultimately
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when we're making payments, like there's a very robust process
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with a lot of gates that one would have to overcome.
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So I think it it's just my opinion and maybe a bit more of
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a quote UN quote front end issue then when it gets to us.
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Sorry I've been fleshed out by then, hopefully are.
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Are you seeing any extra costs come into the process that you
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guys have to account for because of that extra vetting?
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I would imagine that the the additional scrutiny that a lot
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of firms are putting on verifying veracity of cases may
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come with an expense load for them.
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I think where we are seeing a little pressure on the expense
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side is the sheer volume that we are now seeing in mass torts due
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to, you know, the expertise and marketing.
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Giving people more access to the justice system means that we're
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dealing with a lot more data. And it doesn't always mean that
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we're dealing with more money being paid from the defendants,
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right? So we have an increased burden
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in trying to negotiate $100,000 lien against a $30,000
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settlement, right. We've got additional scrutiny on
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us to make sure that people reach, you know certain award
19:25
category. So you may see more appeals
19:28
filed in certain cases that slow up the process, right.
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So there's that's where some of the additional pressure comes in
19:34
on, on us. And unfortunately Archer is in
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is in a tremendous position to continue to make very heavy
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investments in, in technology and data tools.
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And we've done some amazing things over the last couple
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years to, to, to be able to scale to accommodate these mass
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torts. But sure, it comes with an
19:52
expense for sure. So if everything runs as
19:55
planned, if there's a settlement from the time that is reached,
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where is the like average time? Range for payments to start
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paying out to claimants. Yeah.
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So let's just talk about it. Let's say it's a a
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pharmaceutical or a medical device case, right, where we do
20:12
expect there to be a lien of some sort for most individuals,
20:16
right, because they sought some sort of medical treatment,
20:19
someone paid for it. Usually you would see some sort
20:23
of payment to a hold back, right.
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So if for every dollar of gross settlement award, you know, the
20:29
lawyers are getting a certain percentage and then we as an
20:33
administrator, given all the cases that we've worked on, can
20:36
make reasonable guesses on how much we can conservatively hold
20:41
back from someone's award to take care of all these
20:44
contingent issues like liens and so forth.
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So if someone's going to get a hold back, they may get a hold
20:50
back post allocation in let's call it 6 to 9 months, right?
20:56
We talked about some of those precursor things, the things
20:59
that need to happen before we can even get to that point, you
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know, are the allocations done? Does everyone have their data
21:05
organized? Are there any other parties
21:07
involved in this administration picture?
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But I'd say that that's a reasonably good estimate is from
21:15
the date of settlement to the date of some some money moving
21:18
out to hold back. That's a conservative number.
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And then the final payments out to individuals really depends on
21:27
who do they owe money? What third party lien holders
21:31
are we negotiating with? If you find someone has a VA
21:34
lien, dealing with the VA is is arduous.
21:39
It takes a long time. They're maybe not as organized
21:44
and and just by nature of their structure, each individual VA
21:48
facility keeps their own records.
21:50
It's not like going to 1 central source or you have certain state
21:53
agencies that take a long time to respond.
21:55
So you can look at a situation where two people with the same
21:59
injuries, just by virtue of what healthcare they received or
22:02
where they lived could have a pretty big delta and when
22:05
they're going to get their money.
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I'd say though, that 90% of funds are generally cleared and
22:13
distributed within a 10 to 14 month time frame.
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But there are some straggler situations, some outlier
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situations that really become the long poles in the tent.
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So based on that process, what can law firms do when they're
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generating cases, when they're filing cases on the front end,
22:33
to help speed up that process and make it easier for Archer on
22:37
the back end and ultimately for their clients getting paid
22:39
faster? Yeah, I think there are a few
22:41
universal best practices and one is have good command of your
22:48
systems and your data. When you are going to be asked
22:52
to respond to a court order, maybe for a plaintiff fact sheet
22:57
or a claims form or some sort of demand that the defense makes.
23:03
Firms that actually know their data can navigate it can in an
23:09
organized and efficient manner reach out to their clients and
23:12
get answers. If they can't get it out of
23:14
their own system, will generally have a leg up in the overall
23:18
process. Because sometimes these these
23:20
demands for additional proof or data will come towards the end
23:23
of the process, right closer to when we're getting involved.
23:26
And in some of these settlement programs, it's like a first in,
23:30
first out type of situation. So if it's taking you a very
23:34
long time to gather the requisite information, you're
23:37
going to be at the back of the line and there could be a lot of
23:40
people ahead of you. So that's that's something that
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I think is eminently important is have good command of your
23:45
data, know how to use it, make sure it's exportable, it's
23:49
actually usable, it's searchable.
23:51
Another thing is like select good partners, right?
23:54
If you're working with third parties, whether it's marketing
23:57
companies or it's it's data vendors or whoever it is, it's
24:00
case management software. Make sure that they understand
24:04
if you're in mass torts, what a mass tort case is and what it
24:07
looks like and what you need in order to prove that case down
24:10
the line. Put them through that vetting,
24:12
that rigorous vetting. Another thing is understand the
24:16
process. Don't stick your head in the
24:18
sand when communications come out from leadership or they come
24:21
out from Archer. As an administrator, we do a lot
24:24
of things to try to educate firms of all shapes and sizes on
24:28
what's going on in the litigation, what's going on in
24:30
the administration process. We have a portal.
24:32
Use those tools that are available because ultimately the
24:35
firms that communicate the best with their clients, that
24:39
understand the nuances and individual circumstances of
24:42
their cases will be the ones that don't get inundated with
24:45
phone calls. They can be very stressful if
24:48
your clients have not been educated along the way on how
24:51
all this works. A firm that we work with that
24:55
does both mass torts and does Pi, right?
24:58
And we see that a lot, right? Pi sort of transition in the
25:01
mass torts, but in the Pi world is very, very local focused,
25:04
right? They, they get their clients
25:06
from their local market. Their reviews are very, very
25:09
important to them because it helps them rank locally.
25:11
And this firm was struggling because with their reviews
25:15
because they would have mass tort claimants were waiting on a
25:19
payout from an announced settlement, leaving review after
25:22
review, bad reviews, waiting for updates on their cases.
25:25
When is my payout coming? I signed up with your firm three
25:28
years ago. What's going on?
25:30
This is not just a let me dip my toe into mass torts if I'm a
25:34
personal injury lawyer, right? That it's a very dangerous game
25:36
because the secondary effects of doing it incorrectly, whether
25:39
it's, you know, treating it like you're gambling and just, you
25:43
know, and putting money on something and hoping for the
25:45
best without having a good handling firm or good knowledge
25:47
of the litigation or not understanding that you actually
25:50
have to manage these cases after you sign them up.
25:53
And there will be potentially negative impact on your firm's
25:57
reputation if you don't actually manage that process correct.
26:00
You are doing the marketing. Use your handing off to a
26:02
handling firm. You're signing up that client to
26:05
your firm and you're creating a client and turning relationship
26:08
for the next three to 10 years. Yeah, Yeah.
26:09
Well. Even.
26:10
The handling firms too, like it's no doubt it's a big issue,
26:14
especially in like the higher volume mass torts over the
26:16
years, right? The Camp Lejeunes, the three Ms.
26:19
like there were so many claimants that you have to
26:21
manage and if you weren't adequately prepared to handle
26:24
that kind of. Three always a 300,000.
26:26
That's right saying and mass tort firms never like master
26:31
lawyers generally don't have an arm's length relationship with
26:36
those clients, right, Just because of the nature of it,
26:39
because you can sign up cases from anywhere in the country
26:42
that may ultimately retain your law firm.
26:45
And unless you're, you know, unless their their case is
26:48
slated for trial or you're, you're taking depositions on
26:51
their individual case, you don't have that, that, that normal
26:54
sense of, of aprivity in the relationship and they have your
26:56
cell phone, all those sorts of things.
26:58
I know it's, it's been a focus for mass court firms to create a
27:02
more personalized experience, but it has to be centered around
27:07
facts and good information. Because ultimately, when you
27:12
know someone's delivering a bad review, it's probably because
27:15
they, they, they, they didn't understand how a mass tort might
27:19
work or why it takes so long. And I don't understand these
27:22
words that are being used and. What is a mass tort?
27:25
What is it? Yeah.
27:27
It's funny, one of my best friend he he signed up as part
27:31
of the PFAS mass tort. He he matched the injury pattern
27:34
and everything. He signed up, he qualified and
27:37
he was like, dude, that was really intense.
27:38
Like getting qualified. He's like, what happens next?
27:40
And I was like, you sit there and you do nothing until someone
27:42
tells you otherwise. He's like, for how long?
27:43
I go forever. Until someone tells you that
27:47
that it's moving. And then I just give him
27:48
whenever I hear updates, I just tell him what's going on.
27:50
He's OK. Good.
27:51
No, I haven't heard anything. So I'm like, if you haven't
27:53
heard anything, that's good news.
27:55
They'll tell you when they kick you out.
27:56
And everyone is confident they have the best case, right?
27:59
Yes. That's a problem not just for
28:01
the claimants, but for the law firms.
28:03
They don't understand what the progress is in a case because
28:07
for them, sometimes it was just like a financial investment in a
28:10
certain case type. And yes, we're talking about
28:13
money. And like, this is a business,
28:14
but at the same time, like you're dealing with real people
28:19
with real issues and like an operation at your firm that has
28:23
to be able to handle like the ramifications of you managing
28:26
all of these clients at scale. It's a huge undertaking.
28:30
I'm not trying to scare anyone to like not enter mass torts it
28:32
it could be great, but you have to know what you're doing.
28:36
And, and like learning any new line of business or learning a
28:40
new skill, seeking out some mentors, some people who have
28:43
been through this, the, the thick and the thin, the good and
28:45
the bad, who kind of seen a little bit of everything.
28:47
I mean, there's, there's a reason why mass tort conferences
28:50
exist. There's an exchange of ideas
28:52
there. And there are, there are some,
28:53
there are some war stories there.
28:55
So there is a wealth of knowledge out there from people
28:59
who have been doing mass torts for for a long time.
29:01
We've sort of seen it all at this point.
29:04
I would not be bashful about asking for guidance and advice.
29:07
And if you're vetting, you know, either referral or Co counsel
29:11
partners, really educating yourself as part of that process
29:14
and who might be best positioned to to partner with in any aspect
29:18
of the business, because you, you can't simply replicate your
29:22
Pi model into a. Into a not at all, not at all.
29:25
And this, this is one of the reasons why like every week,
29:29
like Joe Fantini and Mark and I, we sit down and for 10 minutes
29:32
we literally just talk about what has happened in each case
29:35
over the past week. Like, it's hard for us who are
29:37
in the industry to keep up on what's going on and to know,
29:41
like, how many bellwethers are going on right now and like,
29:43
which trials are starting today and where are we at in the
29:45
settlement process for all these different cases, let alone the
29:48
ones that haven't even been consolidated yet or just getting
29:51
consolidated. It's a lot.
29:53
It's a lot to consume. And we are in the industry.
29:55
I can't even imagine what it's like for a claimant who's
29:58
sitting on the other end and just like, waiting, right?
30:00
They sign up and they just wait. And we've got, you know, talc
30:03
finally moving now, right? Here we are a decade later, and
30:06
there's some people who've just been sitting there with their
30:09
claim for years and years and years.
30:11
Are you seeing right now more of your clients getting getting
30:17
curious in mass torts or they want more on the cynical side of
30:21
things like generally where do people stand?
30:24
I would say people are definitely, I think bearish
30:30
coming out of that, turning a little bullish coming into this
30:33
year. I think there's a lot of
30:34
frustration. I think there's a lot of things
30:35
have been dragging on. People are a little less excited
30:38
about maybe taking some extra cash into the year, investing in
30:41
that, diversifying the portfolio.
30:43
I think it's changing a little bit this year on certain things
30:46
where they see newer mass torts where they really like the cases
30:49
better. We have mass tort.
30:51
Clients who are and. We have a ton of single men,
30:54
personal injury that some of them do mass tort but most of
30:57
them do not. I think that it's it's evolved
31:01
so in the the way that people had previously thought about
31:05
masked torts and medical devices and dangerous drugs.
31:08
That is less and less common, right?
31:10
You even look at the ones that are maturing right now, right,
31:13
Roundup and paraquat. Those are are pesticides,
31:15
environmental, PFAS, environmental.
31:17
You've got all of the platforms right now that are making the
31:21
technology platforms that are like becoming masked towards
31:23
sort of a new avenue. I think like that new blood is
31:28
and and seeing some of these cases actually like like
31:31
Snapchat settle out last week to to not go to trial.
31:34
You know, you're going to see big news this week or in the
31:36
coming weeks if if Zuckerberg actually winds up having to sit
31:40
and get examined by Mark Lanier, Like granted, there's no cameras
31:44
in the courtroom, but like that is going to be news, right, and
31:47
video game addiction and roadblocks, right, Things that
31:50
are more in like the common news cycle.
31:53
It just in conversation like the norm versus like some obscure
31:57
drug that someone took, even though Ozempic like that's a
31:59
good one because the drug is like so common and it's just a
32:02
trendy thing. So I I think that there's to
32:05
mark your point, like it's on the upswing, but people are
32:09
dealing with like the fallout from like the Zantacs and like
32:12
all the cases that that people put a lot of money in that felt
32:15
the same Tylenol. Yep, there's still a lot of
32:19
trauma from that one. Well.
32:20
One of the common threads among a lot of the litigations you
32:24
just mentioned is the injury in many of them is some sort of,
32:28
you know, chronic ongoing latent disease, right?
32:33
This is not a an acute medical device failure, right?
32:37
Where there's some sort of breakage, there's some sort of
32:39
like immediate perforation. You're talking about claims that
32:43
that sort of mature over a longer time frame.
32:47
It's not a hip implant where there's, you know, revision
32:50
surgery and it gets fixed and it's like a finite thing in
32:52
time. A lot of this is like general
32:55
exposure to to to to chemicals or contaminants.
33:00
And the diseases are are like things like cancer or it's just
33:03
things like Parkinson's that develop over time.
33:06
So you may have clients who exhibit some signs of these
33:10
things early on, then it actually develops into a
33:13
Parkinson's claim. So on our side of things, right
33:16
when we're looking at how these cases get resolved, you know,
33:19
defendants will tell you they're sort of in a bind because they
33:21
don't know what their total exposure is.
33:24
And that's their their their position.
33:25
But let's just look at a lean resolution scenario.
33:30
If you're treating for a disease over many, many years, including
33:34
the time frame that the case has kind of pushed and pushed and
33:38
pushed the, the treatment for those diseases gets very
33:42
expensive. Multiple rounds of chemo or like
33:46
experimental drugs and or just generally expensive treatment
33:50
versus I got a hip replacement. We know what that cost, right?
33:54
And we know that that can be measured into the overall damage
33:57
argument. We from a lean resolution
33:59
perspective, we can figure it out.
34:00
So it's creating some some additional complexities for
34:02
sure. Question 2 for something you
34:03
said earlier. So if in some of the
34:05
settlements, you know they put money into a trust or a fund for
34:09
future, you know, claims or additional things that happen,
34:12
who administers those additional funds are set aside?
34:15
Is that Archer or is that another third party that manages
34:17
that money? Yeah, sometimes we we will do
34:20
that. So one function that we fulfill
34:22
is we do qualified settlement fund administration, which is a
34:26
specific type of escrow account where we act as a trustee of
34:29
funds to to make the distribution.
34:32
But we can also do that in the capacity of saying, OK, we're
34:35
going to be the trustee for this pot of money.
34:39
And as people make additional claims on the line and those
34:43
claims are ultimately proven, we can make distributions out of
34:46
that subject to the, you know, the the rules and the oversight
34:50
that we have as trustee of those funds.
34:51
Got it. What else do we need to know
34:53
about this process that we haven't asked?
34:56
Yeah, I I would. Favorite interview question?
34:58
I love asking people that not not in podcast.
35:00
By the way, when we're interviewing people to hire, I
35:02
always ask them, I say, what is the one question we have not
35:05
asked you that that you would like to answer for us?
35:08
If we boil all this down right and and get to the heart of the
35:12
matter clients, I really have one, one question, when are my
35:17
clients going to see their money, right?
35:19
That's kind of how we started this, this whole conversation.
35:22
And Archer is in an interesting position because we are this
35:28
gatekeeper, right? That looks like this monolith
35:31
between someone's. Celebration.
35:33
I want my money and I want it now.
35:34
Right. And what I would tell everybody
35:37
is that even though the landscape has become more
35:42
challenging, these macro issues are more challenging.
35:45
We are working very, very hard. It could be its own episode unto
35:48
itself on using all sorts of technology, processes, people,
35:53
all these improvements to try to give a better and more efficient
35:59
experience to everybody even given the these kind of
36:02
staggering complexities of some of these issues.
36:05
So if you're looking at the post settlement process now versus
36:11
where it would have been on an apples to apples basis 345 years
36:14
ago, we are leaps and bounds better as an industry and as an
36:20
organization because we we we've learned through through a lot of
36:25
analysis, a lot of trial and error through empirical
36:28
experience. And now we have technologies
36:32
that have really assisted us. Nobody builds tech for our
36:36
industry, right? It's like 2 niche, right?
36:38
But now we have some really cool tools to improve the overall
36:42
experience and hopefully, you know, get money into injured
36:45
people's pockets faster. So we're trying really hard,
36:48
guys. We're working very, very hard on
36:50
it. Yeah, I I appreciate you coming
36:52
on the show and and we don't do educational episodes like we
36:56
usually are like sharing strategies and tactics like
36:59
things can people can implement. This is like this is important
37:02
stuff for I think our audience to know and learn and
37:04
understand. I.
37:05
Have a lot of background. Yeah, the mass tort world is
37:08
robust in its nuances and the different vendors that you have
37:13
to interact with and the players and the landscape and.
37:16
Yeah, it's not as simple as settling a case and the
37:18
insurance company is sending you a check.
37:20
Yeah, we wish it was that easy, but it is not.
37:23
So thank you so much, Gary, for joining us.
37:25
People have questions after watching this episode, which
37:27
they will How do they get a hold of you?
37:30
Linkedinyoucanemailmeggoldberg@archersystems.com You can find me at one of these
37:35
conferences. You can go to archersystems.com
37:38
and and make an inquiry through the website.
37:40
I generally give my cell phone out.
37:41
Well, maybe not do it on podcast, but I'm, I'm pretty
37:45
accessible and we've got, you know, social channels and all
37:48
that stuff. And I have other colleagues who
37:50
are wonderful and experienced and, and knowledgeable.
37:53
So if you run into someone from Archer, don't be scared.
37:56
We're generally pretty nice, nice folks and and hopefully can
37:59
help you. Out fantastic episode.
38:01
Thank you so much for coming on. We absolutely.
38:03
Love it. Thanks everybody for watching.
38:05
If you like this episode, please click subscribe or on YouTube or
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on LinkedIn. Follow us on Instagram and we
38:11
will see you on the next episode of the John Mark Podcast.