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Leanne’s Story (My Version) · Leanne's Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, welcome back to Motherhood Honestly.
0:10
SPEAKER_03: Season two is finally here, and I'm not sure how we've made it this far.
0:13
SPEAKER_03: If you're new around here, this is the podcast where we talk about the bits of motherhood that don't always make it onto Instagram.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: The messy bits, the funny bits, the heartbreaking bits, and everything else in between.
0:23
SPEAKER_03: And if you've been here since season one, welcome back.
0:26
SPEAKER_03: You're the reason I'm started recording season two.
0:28
SPEAKER_03: You clearly enjoyed listening to Mums Over Share, so you're definitely in the right place.
0:32
SPEAKER_03: This season is bigger, more honest, and full of incredible women and maybe men, spoiler alert, sharing their journeys, and I cannot all wait for you to hear them.
0:40
SPEAKER_03: So grab a cup of, settle in, and let's get into season two of Motherhood Honestly.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: So today the tables are turning and your host of Motherhood Honestly Leanne is the one in the hot seat.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: I've known her for 25 years and I'm so privileged that she has asked me to interview her so she can tell you her story in a way that's never been heard before.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: I've watched her go from a feral teenager to a wife, a mum, and most recently someone brave enough to speak openly about parts of motherhood that almost broke her.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: We're going back through pregnancy, birth, postpartum depression, the thoughts she was way too scared to say out loud, and the moments that changed everything.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: This is her side of the story, completely raw, completely honest, and with no husband by her side this time.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm Alice, her best friend of 25 years, and this is Leanne's story.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm recording.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: Hello.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: Hello.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: How are you, Leanne?
1:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm fine, how are you?
1:38
SPEAKER_02: How are you feeling?
1:39
SPEAKER_02: You're feeling stressed?
1:40
SPEAKER_02: A little bit.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: Can you tell?
1:43
SPEAKER_03: Are you really um overwhelmed?
1:45
SPEAKER_02: Well, now you know how all of your guests feel.
1:47
SPEAKER_03: I know, it's not nice to be on the other side of it.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: But here we are.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully I'm I'm as good as you are at being the host.
1:55
SPEAKER_03: Am I good?
1:56
SPEAKER_02: Well.
1:56
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:57
SPEAKER_03: Got the chat.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: You have got the chat, so I have got big big shoes to fill.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: I am a bit worried about this.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: So sorry, sorry, listeners if if I'm nowhere near as good as Leanne is.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: Um but I'm doing my best, I promise.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: You're doing your best.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, so I suppose today we're here to talk about you and your story.
2:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: So um shall I just jump straight in at questions or is there anything you want to kind of start with?
2:26
SPEAKER_03: I guess I just wanted to say the reason I was doing this.
2:28
SPEAKER_03: I had a QA put out on my Instagram about, you know, my story, and I had a lot of questions that maybe such weren't answered in my podcast with my husband.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:39
SPEAKER_03: And I feel like I didn't do it justice.
2:43
SPEAKER_03: I felt like it was it was my first podcast, so I feel like we kind of, you know, were very surface level.
2:47
SPEAKER_03: Um, whereas, like, you know, over the last few months I've shared a lot more about my journey and people want to know.
2:52
SPEAKER_03: So I feel like I should it's only right that I tell my story in full and sort of how not how bad it got, but how far it went.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: So this is probably the reason why I'm sitting down with you right now on a lovely sunny Saturday afternoon.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: Normally, we're well, last time we did a podcast, Leanne had ploughed me with wine, which helped.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: This time it is only half past 12 in the afternoon, so we are sitting down with tea today.
3:17
SPEAKER_03: So sorry for the slurping sounds.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: And also we are uh we are recording this at my house and not Leanne's, and I do have a dog, so if at any point there is barking in the background, I apologize for that.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: It's just Apollo wanting to be in on the podcast.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: Shout out, Apollo.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: So let's just dive straight in, shall we?
3:38
SPEAKER_03: Let's go for it.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: So I know a lot of that your listeners will kind of know you from listening to your podcasts, but um, I suppose it might be nice for any new listeners out there to just understand who Lianne is.
3:52
SPEAKER_03: Oh god, I feel like my default thing to say is uh, well, I'm a mum, because you know that's like my whole personality now.
3:59
SPEAKER_03: Um who am I?
4:01
SPEAKER_03: I I'm 35.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: Although I tell people I'm 25.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: You look at that, which you know.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you act it.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: I do.
4:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, more like 15, yeah.
4:12
SPEAKER_03: Five.
4:14
SPEAKER_03: Um I so I've been a dental nurse for a very, very long time.
4:18
SPEAKER_03: Had a few different jobs in between, but always stuck with dentistry, which you know, love that.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: Um which we actually used to work together.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: We actually used to work together.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and actually got my first job in dental.
4:28
SPEAKER_03: That's because you were jobless.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: I was jobless.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: And at the time, actually, and the only reason Lianne got me into dental nursing is we were how old were we?
4:36
SPEAKER_02: 18?
4:37
SPEAKER_03: 18.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: And Leanne was the only one of my friends that I knew that every day would come home from work and say how much she loves her job.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that was the same.
4:46
SPEAKER_03: It is, no, it is, it's very much.
4:48
SPEAKER_03: I've been doing it for like 17 years now, and I still love my job.
4:51
SPEAKER_03: I love the people I work with, I'm very, very close to them, and it's a great team.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: So I just love teeth.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: You do.
5:00
SPEAKER_03: Um, what else?
5:02
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
5:02
SPEAKER_03: I kind of like I love reading.
5:04
SPEAKER_03: That's my little outlet on life.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I guess just being a mum and a wife and a friend and food.
5:11
SPEAKER_03: Oh god, I love food.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: We all know I do love food.
5:14
SPEAKER_03: Cheeky Chinese for me.
5:15
SPEAKER_03: Um and I guess, yeah, just I've always been like the the Joker, haven't I?
5:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Which at one stage Deanne did think she was gonna do stand-up comedy.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: That would be my dream out.
5:26
SPEAKER_03: Like I shit you not.
5:27
SPEAKER_03: If I weren't doing dentistry, I would be a stand-up comedian.
5:29
SPEAKER_03: I used to watch Lee Evans on repeated nights.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: We would uh so this is before the days of motherhood.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, but there would be times where we'd we'd have gone out on the Saturday night and on the Sunday we'd go round to our friend Sabrina's house and we'd all mong out on the sofa.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Leanne would put on Lee Evans and she would sit right in front of the TV like a five-year-old child.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: But I'd be silent, wouldn't I?
5:56
SPEAKER_02: No, you would be mouthing the words.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: She would note every single word to the whole of the stand-up show of Lee Evans, and she would sit there mouthing the words, and we'd all just be looking at her like, what on earth is she doing?
6:11
SPEAKER_03: You guys are so hung over there, you just let me do it.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: You're like, we were just like, if it's gonna keep her quiet for an hour, which is very similar to what you do with a child, and you're like, I just need five minutes.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I basically just need five minutes like peace, if that makes any sense.
6:26
SPEAKER_03: To be honest, I always feel like I've always been like quite the funny friend, and I can quite I I I come from a funny family, my dad is very funny.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: Your dad is very funny, great.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: And your mum.
6:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, I mean, look, Elaine is hilarious, hilarious, Scottish banner.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: She's quite deadpan as well.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: Very deadpan, very like, and always remember you remember this because you were there when I tried on some wedding dresses, and I remember walking out one and she was like, no, absolutely not.
6:47
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Wow, okay, yeah, straight to the point.
6:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, my dad's very funny, so I feel like I grew up in quite a funny household.
6:54
SPEAKER_03: Um, and try to find the humour in things.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: Although I don't think this podcast can be very very humorous, but I will there'll be elements, we're quite funny, aren't we?
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Hilarious.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, but no, I think it's it's good to kind of understand, I suppose, your background a little bit.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: And I know you've you've kind of spoken a little bit about this, but kind of where you've where you've come from and your family background.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: Like you said, having parents, very social parents, very funny parents.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: Leanne's house was always the house that before town, when we were 17, 18, 19 years old, she lived literally around the back of town.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: So we'd all get glammed up, go around to Leanne's house, have a couple of pre-drinks before we'd go out.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: I'd always be stealing Jamie's crisps.
7:39
SPEAKER_03: You the the thing is, we would always just be leaving for town as Big Jim and Elaine, my I keep mum and dad, would be walking in the door.
7:46
SPEAKER_03: But dad would and mum would love it, wouldn't they?
7:47
SPEAKER_03: They'd be like, Yeah, go on, go! But we always had to make sure we washed up before we Oh my god, we always had to make sure that everything was washed up in the sink and then we'd have to rearrange the crisp, so then dad didn't know that the crisps were gone.
7:57
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, Jamie.
7:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:59
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I guess that's like my, you know, uh met my husband in 2018.
8:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, he is from the other side of the world, not the other side, but I mean he's he's far away.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: Geography is obviously not your topic.
8:10
SPEAKER_03: It's actually not.
8:11
SPEAKER_03: He's he's from far away.
8:12
SPEAKER_03: He's so he's originally from Romania.
8:13
SPEAKER_03: So we met in 2018.
8:15
SPEAKER_03: And at Pub, he was a chef and I was a waitress.
8:19
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't really like him at first.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: Not to lie.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: It is, it's not.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: It's not.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: We were talking about this the other day with our other friend Kirsty, who also worked.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: He was the manager, yeah.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and Leanne always plays this down like she was not interested in Totti.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: But Kirstie did say she was like, no, like like cartoon dribbling heart eyes for this.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: He was, you know, very attractive and you know, still is, but if the accent, I was like, oh my god, but you know, we're eight years in now and I I don't hear it, so that's fine.
8:50
SPEAKER_03: But Olivia started to say some things.
8:53
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh my god.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: But that's good.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: Does he talk to her in Romania?
8:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he does, yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:58
SPEAKER_03: She can say, like, when we went to um we went back to Romania in May and Todd asked her a question in English, and she replied no in Hungarian, which is NAM, by the way.
9:08
SPEAKER_03: So, like throughout that week, she'd obviously been like listening and like picking up on stuff.
9:12
SPEAKER_03: So, but no, he does.
9:12
SPEAKER_03: He sings to her and he tells her like the numbers and stuff.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's I think that's they're like sponges, aren't they?
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really wish I knew another language.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: So, same.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: You know what?
9:22
SPEAKER_03: I've tried to learn, but Hungarian is the fifth hardest language, you know that in the world.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I I'm an idiot sometimes, I can't even, you know.
9:31
SPEAKER_03: So look, I hope she gets to be able to do it.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, well, and especially like with Tottie, if he is talking to her in it in Hungarian and you've been going back, um, like you went back a couple of months ago, uh, back to and we're going again next year as well, like to see his mum and stuff and his sister and brothers and stuff.
9:50
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, fingers crossed, she but what I don't want is for her to be able to speak fluent, and then they'll just like or talk about you by 100%.
9:58
SPEAKER_03: Mum's been an absolute B I T C H.
10:00
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
10:00
SPEAKER_03: Because I can pretty sure if Livia could talk, she would say that.
10:02
SPEAKER_03: Mummy's been annoying today.
10:04
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so yeah, that's me.
10:05
SPEAKER_03: That's that's that's me, that's my life.
10:08
SPEAKER_03: Me.
10:08
SPEAKER_03: What's that thing?
10:09
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for listening.
10:11
SPEAKER_03: And the end of the podcast.
10:13
SPEAKER_03: And that's it.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I suppose, right, so you talked about kind of how you met Totty and that you guys met at the pub.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, so you kind of then it all started beautifully, this love story between the two of you.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then got married.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: Yep, you were there.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: I was there.
10:35
SPEAKER_03: Maid of honour.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: I was made of honour.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Don't know how much honour.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: You're pretty drunk.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: I was.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: Although I did manage to make it because for some reason the Anne thought it would be a good idea to get me to do a speech at her wedding.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so for the whole like first half of the day, I was so nervous.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I can't get too pissed.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: No.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I was a nervous wreck and an emotional wreck for quite a lot of the day.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: You were fantastic, you smashed it, and then literally, I feel like as soon as your speech ended, you were like, right.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: I was like, right, give me a drink.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, but no, it was a great day.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: It was an amazing day.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: And then took a little while for you for you to get pregnant.
11:22
SPEAKER_03: Um but I suppose it's probably a good idea to kind of start from from there, the beginning of of the motherhood of Yeah, so we we started trying um early of 2022 before our wedding, and I think I deep down knew it would probably take a while, so I was just like, well, we'll just you know see what happens.
11:43
SPEAKER_03: And throughout that year, it was a particularly difficult year in early on in that um sorry, we got married and then in the 2023 early on, we lost my younger cousin Olivia, which you know had a really profound effect on me.
11:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, and I was not in a great headspace.
12:04
SPEAKER_03: Um and we actually fell pregnant um in May of 2025.
12:10
SPEAKER_03: When when was Olivia born?
12:12
SPEAKER_03: In the May of 2023.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: Um and I was so excited because I was like it's finally happened, and it did take about I think it was 15 months in total, which you know, in the grand scheme of things, the doctors sort of say, you know, it's it's try one year and and then come back and see it.
12:27
SPEAKER_03: So but I just think the circumstances around trying weren't in you know the best headspace.
12:31
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, we fell pregnant and I was I say that I was really good in pregnancy.
12:40
SPEAKER_03: You guys are like absolutely fucking not.
12:43
SPEAKER_03: I was an ogre apparently, but in my brain, I was like, I was a bloody dream.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think do you know what?
12:50
SPEAKER_02: I think we all knew before you even got uh pregnant that you weren't gonna be someone that just breezed through it, yeah, because you are a little bit of a hypochondriac.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, 100%.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so every tiny little thing Lianne was like, oh my god, am I dying?
13:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, literally, I am like that still.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: And I think I probably got I probably got it a little bit easier than the other girls because I am the only one of the friendship group who isn't a mother.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: So I was kind of like, I can't really help you with this, Leanne.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not sure what you give you a bit of moral support and tell you it's gonna be okay.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: But um, I do think the other girls I think it was really good for you to have the other girls there to be able to go to with these questions.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: Oh, don't be able to just wrecking my house.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: I've just put my head on a light.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: She's just breaking my uh breaking my lamp.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: Bloody ass out of the way.
13:45
SPEAKER_03: See, this just this is what I mean.
13:46
SPEAKER_03: This is exactly what I'm like clumsy.
13:48
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, right, clumsy.
13:51
SPEAKER_03: Um, right, anyway, sorry.
13:52
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, found got pregnant, um, found out that it was gonna be a little girl, and we decided to name her Olivia after my cousin Olivia.
14:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, and the it we went round to see my auntie Pam and my Uncle Steve in the morning, and we who are Olivia's parents and said, you know, would you be okay if we named her Olivia?
14:16
SPEAKER_03: And it was such a lovely moment, and they were so uh happy, and it was a really special morning.
14:21
SPEAKER_03: Um and then later on that day, and I think this is where the story of my of me and and my husband took a turn, um, because that day my husband's father committed suicide.
14:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, my husband's family's over in Romania, and it was completely unexpected.
14:42
SPEAKER_03: You know, I at this point I'm like 25 weeks pregnant and I think that was the moment that everything kind of changed.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: And in terms of that point, and I know it's a it's a really difficult time to to talk about and to kind of think back about, um but kind of can you kind of remember what was going through your head and kind of how you felt at that point?
15:12
SPEAKER_03: I think it was just pure shock because we had spoken to you know Tottti's dad two days prior, and we were sort of saying, you know, we're gonna bring her over, and and they were very excited because um Tottie's parents had grandsons, Olivia would be the first granddaughter.
15:28
SPEAKER_03: And also I think we'd had such a lovely morning, and then you know, it just turned.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, Tottti's now got to race back home and get a flight to Romania, doesn't know when he's gonna come back, and also like funeral costs, you know, that fought off it fell on Totti, and you know, so it was a whole we didn't think about the baby at one point, it was very much like Totti needs to get back to Romania, Tottti needs to plan this funeral, Tottti needs to be there for his family, and I think it happened so quickly, and he left within you know 48 hours, and then I was just alone, and I think that was the start of I've always been a very anxious person, you know that.
16:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, but that was the start of I would say the prenatal depression, anxiety.
16:11
SPEAKER_03: That's when it started, because I think my you know, and of course he had to go, there was no choice.
16:17
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it was a very difficult time because I feel like I also couldn't support him.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I was quite poorly when I was pregnant and I couldn't fly, so he had to go alone, and for me not to be there for him and him not to be there for me, it was like we were just very, you know, do you know what I mean?
16:36
SPEAKER_03: Living two separate lives, you know, he had to go and sort out his family, yeah, and I had to kind of manage our home life, as well.
16:43
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
16:44
SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, it was incredibly, incredibly difficult.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: And in terms of that time, what did you reach out to people for support?
16:55
SPEAKER_02: Were you because like you said, at that time Tottie had to go and be there, yeah, and so you were feeling quite anxious but also quite helpless because you couldn't be with Tottie at that time, and and you've said that was the kind of start of probably looking back at it now, where it kind of all started from.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: And I suppose looking back on it now, do you feel that you because again, this is it it's such a difficult situation to be in, and this is kind of it is happening to you, but it's happening to Tottie, and so in some cases, some people kind of go, Well, because this isn't my like this isn't happening to me, I shouldn't be the one asking for help now.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: Did you ever feel like that?
17:46
SPEAKER_03: Or did you feel um I guess in somewhat, yeah.
17:51
SPEAKER_03: I guess I felt like I couldn't really um, you know, sort of moan about how pregnant I felt or you know, crap I felt because you know he's going through something ten times worse.
18:03
SPEAKER_03: But what I will say is that I I did obviously you know reach out to you guys and my family, and and you know, they sort of all came and um and I spoke to Tottie, you know, every day.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: And and I'll always remember this.
18:16
SPEAKER_03: Hello, Apollo.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: I'll always remember this.
18:19
SPEAKER_03: Um it was like he'd been gone about eight or nine days, and I was you know starting to say to him, like, oh god, I feel so bloody anxious on the house on my own, and you know, and the next day a big bunch of flowers had turned up, and he was just you know, the note said, like, you're stronger than you ever know, like I'm gonna come back, like you know, blah blah.
18:37
SPEAKER_03: And I just thought, how in all of this you're thinking about me?
18:41
SPEAKER_03: Like, no, like you know, so it just kind of shows what kind of tough person he is.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I think him not being I felt very alone, even though I had a baby in my belly, it was a very lonely time for me, yeah, yeah, mentally as well.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: But I think that's such an important point that you said about that what you were going through wasn't as much as what he was going through.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: And I think that happens to so many people because life happens and shit happens unfortunately.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: But what you are going through is always so important to really kind of sit with, and and and yes, there are people in the world that might be going through worse off stuff, and people that you love and people that you know that are going through a really bad situation, but that doesn't mean that what you're feeling is is any less.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something really, really good about you, Deanne, is that you will or like you did voice that you were struggling, even though you were thinking what Tot is going through is much worse, but what you were going through is still yeah, you needed that support, and I think that's such an important thing to advocate for.
19:57
SPEAKER_03: I think you have to, don't you?
19:58
SPEAKER_03: Like, and what I will say is, you know, I spoke to my family and my friends and things, but I also the one person who really was my absolute saviour was my midwife, my community midwife, Mel.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: I know you're listening.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: She as soon as that happened, and Tottie, I remember I went to one appointment when Tottie was away, and it was like she put me on the path of saying, you know, she let everybody know that this is what's happened to Leanne and her husband.
20:24
SPEAKER_03: And I guess there was a little bit more support for the rest of my pregnancy, mental health-wise, you know, to check in because we you know, when that happens, you know, it's not something that happens every day, Al.
20:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and yeah, I think you have to just go back and remember there was nothing we had no idea there was anything wrong with Totty's dad.
20:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, um there wasn't any big lead up to it, you know, it was just it happened.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, she was really good at just kind of like facilitating help and just being a great listener.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she got it.
20:57
SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, I I'm forever thankful for her, forever thankful for her.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that and and it does show that there is some really amazing people out there that can give you that support, and just so you kind of feel like you're not alone in that situation, and I think that's a really important thing to say, you know.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Even if you think, oh, you know, I just it's just sometimes I feel a little bit anxious, just talking to someone like your midwife or whoever it is, just to kind of not feel alone in that situation, I think that's yeah, that's great.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: And that I like I praise you so much for being able to speak out when you know things aren't aren't right.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: And before we started this podcast, I know we're not gonna go like into massive detail about kind of what happened with Tottie's dad, but this very much happens in mental health, is such a big thing.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: And I think if you don't ask for that help, that's when it becomes too much and you kind of It can really spiral out of control.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I think it is so important to be talking about it and asking.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: 100%.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: And I I know I talk about it a lot on my page, mainly towards mums, but for anyone, you ask someone how they are and they say I'm fine, ask again, you know, ask again, even if it's in a different way.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: Because you know, look at the state of the world right now, yeah, in terms of mothers, you know, they they didn't get the support they needed, yeah.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: You know, so it's it's just really important, and I think I'm so passionate about it, and I feel like people need to know that the help is there, you've just got to have the courage to ask for it, yeah, you know, definitely.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: But I do also think you became very good at pretending you're okay.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Oh god, sorry.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, there is a wasp right near you, it's like it's gone.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: Jesus Christ, Jesus please.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: No, it's fine.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: All right, it's gone, we're okay.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: Don't want a medical emergency, is there?
22:57
SPEAKER_02: It's no, oh, it's come back.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: Oh no, I have to shut the door, but we'll just you know what Olivia said, shoo, go away.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh bless her.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so you you did become really good at pretending you were okay.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: Um so I suppose why do you think you found it difficult to admit um that you weren't really?
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of the time, yeah, you know, you would we'd have girls' nights and you'd be like, Yeah, I'm okay, but you wouldn't be your kind of normal, relaxed, funny self, and you'd leave early and and things like that.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: So we can't we we knew, yeah, but you kind of weren't quite ready to admit no, do you it's but this is pre-Olivia, right?
23:45
SPEAKER_03: Yes, pre-Olivia.
23:47
SPEAKER_03: Um I think when I you know when I was pregnant and um Tottie left, left, Tottie went back home.
24:01
SPEAKER_03: From then on, I had to be close to him at all times and I needed to be near him.
24:05
SPEAKER_03: And if I wasn't, I didn't feel safe.
24:08
SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, my best friends, you 25 years, I don't I'm sitting here, I don't feel safe.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: All I want to do is get up and leave because I don't want to be around here.
24:16
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to talk about I don't want to talk about what you guys are up to.
24:19
SPEAKER_03: I don't want you know, I don't I want to talk about how down I am and depressed I am, you know.
24:24
SPEAKER_03: Um and I also thought as well that after that had happened with Tottie's dad, my whole mental state changed.
24:30
SPEAKER_03: I was a very sad person, and in my brain, I'm like, you guys don't need to be around this shit.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: No chance, I'm not gonna bring you down with me.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: You know what it's like when you say like people's energy is off, then your energy gets off.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was like, this is not this is not what I want to do.
24:45
SPEAKER_03: My only safe space was being at home.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: If I was away from that, no, even at work, I was like, I hate this, you know.
24:55
SPEAKER_03: I have to go to my dad's and I'd be there, and I'm like, I've got to go home.
24:57
SPEAKER_03: Like my safe space was being at home with Toy.
25:01
SPEAKER_03: Because also there was an element of me being like, Toy's gonna go down this route and he's gonna do what his dad did because he's so depressed that his dad's killed himself.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: Like I catastrophise so badly, so so badly.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: But and do you know what as well though?
25:16
SPEAKER_03: I'm I was so aware that you guys and that people you knew you were I was so like hyper aware of it, but it didn't it just yeah, it wasn't a good time, and I feel like I just wanted to be at home, and if I wasn't at home, I was on edge constantly, constantly, like looking over my shoulder on edge, even if I was you know round here having dinner or popping to I don't know the shop.
25:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
25:45
SPEAKER_03: I was only safe at home, and that continued on into my birth and after Olivia, which you know we'll get to.
25:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you know, in some elements, elements still now it's like that.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: And what was I suppose that was there a moment that kind of made you think, okay, this is not not this isn't right, and I need to kind of be doing something about it and start talking to people?
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Or was there someone or or you know, for people that I suppose are out there that might be listening and and know someone that they can see that that's happening to, like, is there anything that you feel helped or would have helped, or is there like a question or or something someone could do to help kind of start to facilitate that conversation?
26:36
SPEAKER_03: I think the first thing, and that's this is the hardest is admitting that there is a problem.
26:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, because you know, for a long time, I have, and many people are I just I'm not the issue, you're all the problem, you know.
26:48
SPEAKER_03: So I think admitting that you have a problem and actually what the core of that problem is, it's not just like oh, I don't want to come out for dinner tonight, it's like why don't you want to come?
26:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah do you know what I mean?
26:59
SPEAKER_03: You need to figure out the why and kind of work through that and process that.
27:02
SPEAKER_03: And I will say, Totti was fantastic at like coaching me and guiding me to go out and do these things, you know, and it's hard.
27:12
SPEAKER_03: I think it got to the point, especially sort of like round you know, maybe like November time, I felt really calm.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I was like, the baby's gonna come and I'm okay, and I felt a lot better.
27:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I started to like you know, be a little bit better, and I had my baby shower and it was all really lovely, and then Olivia came early, and that's when it all just went, it was like a car crash.
27:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like it was like a car crash waiting to happen.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: It was like, you know, they all say um what do they say like it the car before the storm?
27:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I sort of like calmed down a little bit, and it was, you know, all I was feeling really good, getting really excited, and then bam, you know, like one day in December, it all just turned, you know.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so um I think it's a good time to talk about the bear.
28:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
28:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, do you want me to just jump straight in?
28:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay, cool.
28:06
SPEAKER_03: Just jump in.
28:07
SPEAKER_03: Um, so it was the 20th of December.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: We'd been for our 36 weeks, six 36 weeks, I can't talk.
28:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, and they told us that she was breached, which we already knew.
28:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, and they basically said we'll get you booked in for a C-section.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: So Olivia was due on the 15th of January.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, and we were like, okay, so I kind of come to terms with that I'm gonna have this C-section like fine, no problem.
28:31
SPEAKER_03: And you know, that day Tottie made me walk around Banbury during the Christmas shopping, and I was fucking fuming at him.
28:39
SPEAKER_03: Fuming.
28:40
SPEAKER_03: Because we actually hadn't done anything, but it was he says it was like two hours, it wasn't an hour, it was like five.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: So I walked around Tesco's and Tesco big Tesco's in Banbury, and I remember just literally feeling like she was gonna literally fall out my badge.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: And um that night I went home and said to him I wasn't feeling very well, and I felt like I was getting the flu.
29:00
SPEAKER_03: And he said, Go and have a bath, and I was like, That's your answer for everything in life.
29:03
SPEAKER_03: So I did, and I went to sleep, and I woke up around about 11 and with this like urge to pee, and I went to the toilet and my waters broke, and I knew it was my waters because I was like, I've wet myself many times in my life.
29:16
SPEAKER_03: We know, we know, yeah.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: That's the story for another day.
29:22
SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, I was like, Oh my god, so we went straight to the hospital, and um at this point I started to get very panicky and very anxious because I was like, it's too early, you know.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: You've got to remember this is now like a month early.
29:35
SPEAKER_03: Um, and yeah, they did a scan and they said, Yeah, your front waters have gone, which didn't realise by the way, you've got two sets of waters.
29:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, we're gonna um monitor you.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: So I was monitored throughout the day, really.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: Um wasn't really getting any contractions, just kind of just jamming.
29:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then the following day, so this is now the 22nd of December in the morning, they said we're just gonna keep you monitored for the day.
30:00
SPEAKER_03: We'd like to keep the baby in until um 37 weeks, which unfortunately was Christmas Day, and I was like, oh god, but you know, it is what it is.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, we kind of just set up shop at the hospital, and about I don't know, 20 minutes later, this consultant came in, flew the curtain open, threw a gown at me and said, Get dressed, you're going into theatre, and it was that was it.
30:24
SPEAKER_03: That's all he said.
30:25
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, uh, you know, completely like, what?
30:29
SPEAKER_03: And then um the midwife came and she said, you know, we need to get the baby out.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: And I said, What do you mean?
30:35
SPEAKER_03: You know, we can't we've got to keep them in.
30:37
SPEAKER_03: And they said, No, like the baby needs to come out, she's been without waters for nearly 48 hours, infection.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: Um, so we need to get you to theatre, and I had absolutely no time.
30:46
SPEAKER_03: We'd had no time to even call my parents, call Toddy's mum, like there was nothing, no time to process it whatsoever.
30:52
SPEAKER_03: And you know me very well, I'm petrified hospitals.
30:55
SPEAKER_03: I've been in and out of hospitals all my life with my ears and whatnot.
30:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, so you can imagine, you can imagine how I was.
31:03
SPEAKER_03: Um and again, it's a new thing to Totty, so he's like, Oh god, this is a bit, you know.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: So anyway, we we got changed and we went down to theatre.
31:13
SPEAKER_03: Um and I was really panicking, like panic attacks, like crying.
31:18
SPEAKER_03: I was like, I can't do this, it's too early.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: And I felt like I wasn't prepared, I wasn't ready for her.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, and maybe it's a bit of like ADHD, I don't know, but I like things, I like to know what's happening, and if things go off course, I am just like a nightmare.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: Like I worry, and I'm like that in my normal life, you know that.
31:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if a plan changes, I'm like, no.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, they laid me down, but then they took her out.
31:50
SPEAKER_03: And I was recently listening to a podcast with Kimberly Nixon, and she had postpartum psychosis and post-partum OCD, and when I was listening to it, she said something to me, and it really resonated, and that's the only way I can describe it.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: When they took Olivia out and they said, Welcome to the world, Living, they lifted her and they put her on me.
32:09
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna use the analogy of stranger things, it felt like the upside down, everything looks normal, but it was darker, everything was darker, everything was bad, if that makes any sense.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't feel anything, anything.
32:24
SPEAKER_03: I just instantly like it sounds terrible.
32:28
SPEAKER_03: I instantly hated her, and I was like, get her off me.
32:31
SPEAKER_03: I look over at Toddy and he's crying, he's like really emotional, he's really like, Oh my god.
32:35
SPEAKER_03: So I'm trying to match his energy so that nobody knows there's anything wrong.
32:41
SPEAKER_03: And which is such a hard and you know, I've worked through this, but the guilt I felt not even thinking, you know, all I in my brain was screaming, get her off me now.
32:53
SPEAKER_03: And then she took, they did take her because she was early, they had the pediatric.
32:57
SPEAKER_03: There was I forgot to say, there's a lot of people in the room because she was early, it was an emergency C section, you know.
33:04
SPEAKER_03: These pediatric doctors were putting like steroid injections in her and asking me, Can you have the can she have the B12 injection?
33:12
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Oh no, it's a B12, vitamin K ejection.
33:14
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, uh uh.
33:16
SPEAKER_03: I had no idea what I was doing.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: I lost a lot of blood, it was not it was not a nice time, and it was Christmas, and I always remember driving home for Christmas by Chris Rea was playing when she was born, and I hear that song now, and I get so sad because I'm like, oh god, it's like the worst time of my life, and I I say it's the worst day of my life, it should be the happiest day of my life, yeah, because my child's here, but it was the worst day of my life, you know.
33:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I guess so we got back to like the the ward, and um I'm numb and I'm trying that Tottie's taking photos with her, and I'm trying to smile and saying how amazing it is, and and I was crying, but it was I wasn't crying happy tears, yeah.
34:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, and people are messaging and I'm messaging you guys, oh Olivia's here, it's the best thing in the world, you know.
34:08
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm thinking that's what I'm meant to say.
34:10
SPEAKER_03: That's what people say, so I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm gonna say that.
34:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then Tottie went home that night, and I was left alone on this ward with four women, and they were all like sound asleep.
34:25
SPEAKER_03: And I I think the whole of the JR could hear my sobs that night.
34:29
SPEAKER_03: I was inconsolable, like I couldn't.
34:32
SPEAKER_03: I was trying to say to the midwife, you know, when I ring the I rang the bell and nobody would come.
34:37
SPEAKER_03: And you know, I had a C-section, I couldn't pull myself up.
34:40
SPEAKER_03: Liv was crying in her cart and I couldn't get to her.
34:44
SPEAKER_03: And then at one point the midwife came and I just said, I can't do this, I just I want to go home.
34:49
SPEAKER_03: Like I you have to let me go home, I can't be here.
34:52
SPEAKER_03: And she was very much like, let us take the let me take Olivia for you for an hour.
34:55
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, No, that was like the first thing, like it was like a test.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: If I said, Yeah, go on, then I'm a bad mum, so I'm like, No, you're not taking her, she's mine, even though I didn't want her, if that sounds you know what I mean.
35:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, and in the end, in the very early hours of the morning, they they let Tottie come back, and Tottie stayed with me and he didn't leave my side till we got home because I just couldn't be alone because four months prior to that, my husband leaves, I'm alone, I couldn't be on my own, and now I've got this baby who I literally don't want to even touch, don't even want to go near.
35:30
SPEAKER_03: Like, what am I meant to do?
35:32
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, it was it was rough.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: And in terms of I suppose these thoughts that are going through your head about Olivia at the time, kind of that sort of thing when you're thinking, especially because you'd been so excited and and so wanting a child for such a long time.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: Um and I suppose when you have been through that where you're you know so excited, and then those feelings don't come, it and then you've got these feelings of you know, get her away from me, I can't touch her, it it must be so conflicting for you, yeah, in your in your head, and also like you said, about kind of in that upside down, yeah, and then see and seeing Tottie being so besotted by her, and then when you saw other people and how they were, you know, your parents loving her.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: I suppose obviously I've I've not been in that situation, but I can just imagine that makes you feel even more distant from people.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: You're literally like solo on your own, yeah, and nobody understands it.
36:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, nobody's gonna understand it, and you have to portray this picture that you're absolutely fine because that's what you should be.
36:58
SPEAKER_03: And actually, I've learned now it's not what you should be at all, you know.
37:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, I found it very hard, and I found it just I just remembered the loneliness.
37:10
SPEAKER_03: I just felt so alone.
37:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, even with Tottie there, all my mum, I just felt like I was completely on a different planet to what you guys were.
37:18
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
37:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and thrown into the mix of that is a newborn baby who you know I've got nothing, no feeling towards.
37:26
SPEAKER_03: And I remember I remember going to the bathroom and I cried and cried and cried, and I just was like to myself, I just want my old life back.
37:35
SPEAKER_03: That's all I want.
37:36
SPEAKER_03: I don't wanna I don't wanna do this anymore, you know.
37:39
SPEAKER_03: Is there a returns policy?
37:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean I still think like that now sometimes.
37:43
SPEAKER_03: Can I take an out to jail?
37:46
SPEAKER_03: Um I'm sure you're not alone with that one.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely not.
37:49
SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, it was it was hard, and we we we did get home on Christmas Eve.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: Um, and it was strange because when we got home, um there was like balloons in the house, and it was all lovely in the Christmas tree, and I you know me, Christmas is my favourite time of year.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
38:03
SPEAKER_03: Um so I was just like, Oh god, I'm home, like I'm in wearing pajamas, and you know, it's all lovely, the heating's on, it's cozy, and I felt really good.
38:12
SPEAKER_03: I was like, because I was out of hospital.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna ask, when you were in hospital, did you kind of think to yourself, oh, if I can get home in my in my surroundings, then those feelings will come.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I told myself that that's what's going to happen.
38:29
SPEAKER_03: You're going to go home and you're going to be absolutely fine.
38:31
SPEAKER_03: And I truly did believe it.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's one of those things, and I do it in life now.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: If I don't want to be some be somewhere, I'm really obvious.
38:40
SPEAKER_03: Like I itch and like I've got to go.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:42
SPEAKER_03: And because I couldn't do that in the hospital, because obviously they couldn't discharge me.
38:47
SPEAKER_03: That's what made it harder, is that I physically couldn't leave.
38:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean, obviously, I could if I really wanted to, but I'm not going to take that risk with my baby and me.
38:54
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think Christmas Eve morning, we the consultant came around.
38:58
SPEAKER_03: I think she saw in my eyes, I was like, please just let me home, please just get me out of here.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, of course, Olivia passed all the checks, and we did get home, and it was it was such a lovely and Christmas Day was great, you know, very strange Christmas Day.
39:12
SPEAKER_03: There was midwives coming in, we had meals on wheels, you know, and I remember crying, so I wrote uh Tottie's Christmas card, like she but it was so lovely, it was such a magical and special day, and and I'd had a shower, I'd washed my hair, and I felt really good, you know.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: In terms of that, I suppose, because people think about uh postpartum depression and think you've got to be down all the time, yeah.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think this is where some people will see, oh, but she's doing really well and she's had a great day today.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: And that, like, did you kind of think, oh, okay, actually, if I'm having a great day today on Christmas Day, maybe this isn't actually happening to me.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:58
SPEAKER_02: And like, how was it?
39:59
SPEAKER_03: It's like a false sense of security.
40:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: You're like, oh, this is great.
40:02
SPEAKER_03: I've got a loving husband, got a newborn baby, you know, it's lovely.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: And life is good.
40:07
SPEAKER_02: You were having a good day.
40:08
SPEAKER_02: How were your feelings towards Olivia still on that day?
40:11
SPEAKER_02: Was it still the same?
40:13
SPEAKER_03: It was still the same, but I feel like it was masked by the happiness of Christmas Day.
40:16
SPEAKER_03: Because again, big Christmas, I love Christmas, it's my favourite time of year, and I think that just you know, it was a lovely.
40:23
SPEAKER_03: We had a nice Christmas dinner, Olivia was asleep, Olivia wasn't bothering me, she didn't cry because she just slept, she was like newborn.
40:29
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
40:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, I'd had a shower, I'd put some clothes on, you know, my boobs look fantastic.
40:34
SPEAKER_03: They did uh thanks very much.
40:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, my family came and it was you know, it was all very magical.
40:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I I loved that Christmas day, and even the midwife were like, you know, God, you look fantastic, Leanne.
40:46
SPEAKER_03: I was like, thanks, you know, because I was sort of like telling myself that I was gonna be absolutely fine.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, and that was very short-lived.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:56
SPEAKER_02: And then I think it's also kind of when you have those high highs, and then I suppose that crash down the other side must have been like felt even bigger then.
41:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you know, they talk about the three-day hormone crash where you know all your hormones come out and it's they say the baby blues or whatever, and you know, and it was it was the day after boxing day, and I just I just crashed.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't, I couldn't get dressed and I couldn't, I couldn't talk properly, like I was like power in like a paralyzed state.
41:25
SPEAKER_03: Like, and you I have to also just clarify Tottie is doing everything for Olivia, yeah, changing her bum, feeding her, burping her, cuddling her.
41:32
SPEAKER_03: Like I did nothing, did nothing.
41:34
SPEAKER_03: And the only time that I would hold her was for a picture, or if somebody was coming to visit to create an illusion that I was absolutely fine and loving being a mum.
41:44
SPEAKER_03: The day after Boxing Day, the midwife came round to check Olivia and also to check me.
41:49
SPEAKER_03: And my C-section scar was looking a bit iffy-jiffy.
41:52
SPEAKER_03: So they were like, We're gonna give you some antibiotics.
41:54
SPEAKER_03: Now you know me because we've been best friends for 25 years.
41:57
SPEAKER_03: If I have an operation, I get an infection.
42:00
SPEAKER_03: Literally, out of all my 22 surgeries, 22.
42:05
SPEAKER_03: Um, so was I shocked by it?
42:07
SPEAKER_03: No.
42:07
SPEAKER_03: So I went on the antibiotics, and then a few days had passed, and they came again, and it was getting worse and worse.
42:13
SPEAKER_03: So they were like, Leanne, I think you need to go to MAU, and I was like, Okay, fine.
42:17
SPEAKER_03: And I was so happy, Alice, that I got to have go to hospital with my husband and leave my baby at home with my mum, and that's the first time I knew that this wasn't just baby blues, this was something more.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: Before that point, so the days before where Tottie was doing everything.
42:38
SPEAKER_02: Did he see, or did had you spoken to him, or did he understand that like how much you were struggling, or did he think that was kind of part of the C-section side of things?
42:52
SPEAKER_03: He was very much um sort of telling himself, I think it's you know what he thought was that she's has it had it major major abdominal surgery because that's what C-section is, it's huge.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: She's in a lot of pain.
43:03
SPEAKER_03: You know, this is a new thing for both of us.
43:05
SPEAKER_03: We're both sleep deprived, yeah.
43:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, and it's an emotional thing.
43:08
SPEAKER_03: So I think he just thought that was a big, big, huge factor.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: Our life has just changed.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: Olivia's come a month early, it was a traumatic birth, you know.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: Leanne's been through the bloody ringer, and I think that's I think that's what he thought.
43:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, that it was um it was like a combination of those things.
43:28
SPEAKER_03: I think mental health didn't even cut across his mind in that in that first sort of 10 days.
43:33
SPEAKER_03: I don't think it ever truly it truly, unless he did, and he just didn't want to believe it.
43:40
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, but um you know, when I when we we did our podcast, he said about you know, you'd had this major surgery and it was hooray.
43:46
SPEAKER_03: And also Tottie was so well aware of me being left on my own.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: I always remember he went up to the nurses' station the day he went home after Olivia was born and was like, Can you just go and check on Lianne, please?
43:57
SPEAKER_03: Because he knew he knew as soon as he walked out.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: That hospital, I would be hysterical, and I was, yeah, you know, yeah.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, so he was aware of that.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: And so was it just Tottti that you would kind of be a little bit more vulnerable with, or did your parents see any side of that?
44:14
SPEAKER_02: No, at that stage, no.
44:16
SPEAKER_03: The only day that the they did see uh when I broke down was uh the morning, the day after boxing day, Toddy said, Lee, I've got to go into a food shop, and I went, I'll come.
44:27
SPEAKER_03: Because I, you know, could get away from Olivia.
44:30
SPEAKER_03: So I was like, Yeah, I'll come.
44:31
SPEAKER_03: And I'll always remember Al, my feet were so swollen, and I put Toy's size nine trainers on and these fucking joggers.
44:38
SPEAKER_03: I looked like someone out bloody shameless.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: And we were walking around Aldi and I was hysterical.
44:42
SPEAKER_03: And Toddy was like, and I and I remember getting home to my mum and dad were there with Olivia and I broke down on the kitchen floor and I was like, I'm not okay, like I'm not well.
44:51
SPEAKER_03: And I remember my dad being like, Lee, you've just had major surgery, sit down, you shouldn't have bloody gone, Elaine.
44:56
SPEAKER_03: You know, get her a cup of tea.
44:57
SPEAKER_03: You know, they were really sort of like annoyed at me a little bit that I had gone and pushed myself to go for a bloody Audi food shop three days after birth.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: And again, do do you think they kind of thought that it was just you pushing yourself too much too early on?
45:12
SPEAKER_03: I think my dad thought that.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: I think my mum knew.
45:14
SPEAKER_03: Did she?
45:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think my mum knew.
45:16
SPEAKER_03: My mum's great, she you know, you know my mum very well.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: She's so switched on with stuff like that, and I think she deep down she knew.
45:23
SPEAKER_03: She knew um yeah, very early on.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: So then obviously you had to go back to the hospital because your um scar got infected, um, and that was the time where you were like, Oh, finally, some time me and Totten, which you know, now sad sounds crazy like being going to the hospital because you've got an infection is a relief.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um but it kind of talked me through kind of what was going on at that stage.
45:55
SPEAKER_03: I when we got to the hospital and we checked in, this midwife came out and she said, Where's your baby?
46:01
SPEAKER_03: And I said, At home with my mum.
46:03
SPEAKER_03: I should oh right, okay.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: And it was the first time I thought to myself, oh my god, someone's judging me right here for not bringing my baby to the hospital.
46:11
SPEAKER_03: But I was like, it was the middle of winter, like she's premature.
46:15
SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm not gonna bring her into a hospital same where she can get infection, yeah.
46:18
SPEAKER_03: But I understand now, now it's a safeguarding issue, you know.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: But back then I thought, fucking hell, like this woman's literally judging me for leaving my baby at home.
46:26
SPEAKER_03: Then I thought to myself, fucking hell, why would I leave her at home?
46:29
SPEAKER_03: What an awful mother I am, you know.
46:32
SPEAKER_03: That's when the the thought started to creep in, uh, and that was the day before New Year's Eve.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so like you said there, you felt judged.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it's such a common thing, doesn't matter whether you've got postpartum depression or not.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: I think as a mother, you can't do right for all because you just feel like you're being judged all the time.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, but is and again you'll know way more than I do about postpartum depression, but is that something that's really common with people that have postpartum that they do constantly feel judged?
47:12
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, and I think it's um, you know, look at the world right now, look at you know, paid in Panetiya, she she talks about her postpartum depression on live on TV, then she gets cut from all of her jobs, you know, there's a judgment, and I think when when you have a baby and you see social media plays a huge part in it, yeah.
47:37
SPEAKER_03: You see these mums doing really well, and it's not spoken about that it's how hard it is, all these thoughts, it's always like it's one motherhood's wonderful, and and I'll use our friend Jasmine, you know, three, four days after she gave birth, she sent us a message and she said this is the best thing in the whole world, and she meant it.
47:56
SPEAKER_03: So I'm here saying I hate my child, of course I'm gonna be judged for that, but it should you it shouldn't be like that, yeah, because I was not in control of that feeling, but at the same time, I'm like, Well, I feel like that, so this is my fault.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but just going back to that point where you said of course you'd be judged for that, who did when you were thinking that, who did you think was going to judge you for that?
48:24
SPEAKER_02: Like your friends, your family, yeah, you thought everything and also like the doctors, yeah.
48:30
SPEAKER_03: You know, there's a that worry as well that you say the wrong thing and that's it, you're immediately, I don't know, classed as being mental or you know, there's gonna you're gonna you're gonna get a label put on you soon, you know.
48:45
SPEAKER_03: So you're like, no, I need to just make out that everything's wonderful, yeah.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: Um, but internally, and God could how would I sit and tell my husband, I'm really happy that I'm sat with you on my own and Olivia's not here?
48:57
SPEAKER_03: Like, what would he think of you?
48:59
SPEAKER_03: What would Tottie think of me?
49:00
SPEAKER_03: You know, and I was not comfortable to share that with him.
49:04
SPEAKER_02: But I think this is all part of it, isn't it?
49:06
SPEAKER_02: Is when you are in the depths of depression, you do feel like that.
49:12
SPEAKER_02: You feel like even the people that know you, yeah, because all of us, if you'd have said to us like I could I I I can't stand Olivia, I can't be with her, we wouldn't be going, Oh god Liam's a bad man.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it wouldn't it would never be a thought that would come out of any of our heads, but you're you internalize this because it isn't what you expect, that it then spirals, and you think, Oh, well, I can't tell Toy that because he'll judge me.
49:44
SPEAKER_02: But this is your husband, then he'll leave.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: This is your husband who's known you way before all of this has happened, knows deep down who you are as a person, your friends, your family, your parents.
49:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so it's it is it's so different, and it must have been so difficult because like you were talking about feeling so alone in there.
50:08
SPEAKER_02: And I and I know we're gonna talk about this kind of as we go with kind of how you're feeling now and and how you've got to where it is.
50:16
SPEAKER_02: But I suppose that verb that must have been so scary the kind of first time you verbalised it.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: But did it feel kind of a bit of a like a weight lifted off when you kind of realised that you weren't being judged at that point?
50:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I think when I first sort of admitted I had a problem, again, it was at we were at that point where Tottie knew something was wrong, my mum knew something was wrong, you guys knew something was wrong.
50:42
SPEAKER_03: Um so I think there was an awareness about it, you know, people were aware of that maybe I wasn't as doing as well as I was saying, said I was doing, you know, and the midwives were aware of that as well.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:55
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, um but I think it's just really difficult, isn't it?
51:00
SPEAKER_03: With a lot of mums, you know, they sort of glamorise it on social media, and uh it's not to say that it isn't it all it can be like that, because it can, but they're just the times, and I am a prime example that it wasn't, you know, and I have to admit that to myself, you know.
51:18
SPEAKER_03: I think also there's a little bit of guilt, is that you want this baby for so long, this is a very special baby, and the baby comes, and I I don't feel any of that, you know.
51:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and going back to what you've said about social media, it's it's so like it in some ways there are some really great things about social media, like you being able to share your stories and things like that.
51:41
SPEAKER_02: And I think so many brave people out there that are showing that actually life isn't all raises, yeah.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: Um but you and this is the frustrating thing, I suppose, about social media is your algorithm will always bring more of the same up.
51:56
SPEAKER_02: So then you're looking at more mums on online that are happy and a bit snap back and are you know to the world looking like they've got it all sorted out.
52:08
SPEAKER_02: But good luck finding any mother who has got it all sorted out.
52:12
SPEAKER_02: And the more that you start to talk, I think it it's becoming a little bit less taboo now, yeah.
52:20
SPEAKER_02: But it's still quite taboo about saying, actually, I'm really struggling.
52:23
SPEAKER_02: Like motherhood is is hard, and but once you and you'll know this more than me, is once you actually start talking about it, then you've got mothers coming up to go, oh my gosh, yeah, isn't it?
52:35
SPEAKER_02: And then you start to feel a bit like, oh, actually, okay.
52:39
SPEAKER_02: The w the way that I was feeling is that it was fine, like it wasn't fine, obviously, but it's okay to feel like that, and it's okay to be like, yeah, and it's okay to continue to struggle because it's hard, yeah, and like it doesn't get easier as they go, it just like it's just different levels of it, you know.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: And like this is your first time doing it as well, you know.
53:05
SPEAKER_02: It's Totti's first time doing it, it's your parents' first time being grandparents, you know.
53:10
SPEAKER_02: So there's almost a little bit of an expectation, is like that maternal instinct will just set in, and I'm just gonna be the world's best.
53:19
SPEAKER_03: And I again, this is like if you were to ask me, you know, what I thought being a mum would be like, that's exactly what I would have said.
53:26
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna ask you kind of before you even you know, maybe early stages of pregnancy, and before that, kind of what were your expectations and what were you kind of hoping for and wishing for?
53:39
SPEAKER_03: I hope for for her to complete my life to feel this like completeness, you know, like our family is like a strong unit, and you know, me and Tati were gonna be the most amazing parents, and just she was gonna be like this light and this light in our lives, and I suppose in a way, like heal me a little bit, like you know, like my anxiety might be less, and I might be less worried and and just be happy, like fully happy, you know, and go on these adventures of our little mate, and do you know what I mean?
54:17
SPEAKER_03: Like just and when we found out as a girl, God, I was like, I you know, she's gonna be my best friend and the most amazing little girl, and she's gonna love mummy and love daddy, and mummy and daddy are gonna love her, and yeah.
54:32
SPEAKER_03: And then when that didn't happen, that's that's when I found it like social media's a lie.
54:42
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
54:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, which yeah, silly to say really, but that's that's what I found.
54:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I think the thing is that kind of at the start that isn't how it felt, and I'm sure there's still plenty of times now where you still feel the same, you know, still feel the same way.
55:01
SPEAKER_02: But there is a point, you know, it as long as you are reaching out to people, talking about it, getting the help that you need, that has kind of come back, has it?
55:12
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
55:13
SPEAKER_03: Do you feel kind of now?
55:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, like she she's my best friend, and I love her more than I've ever loved anything in my whole life, and it's funny because if you go back to the early days post-partum, and you know, we I further along in my journey of being a mum, it was bad.
55:30
SPEAKER_03: But God, if you'd have told me like in two years' time, you're gonna like that child is gonna be like your whole life, I'd be like, Don't be ridiculous.
55:38
SPEAKER_03: This is how my life's gonna be now.
55:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be depressed, I'm gonna be anxious, I'm gonna hate her forever.
55:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, so it's such a contrast, but I just had to go through hurdles after hurdles and the worst time ever to get to it, you know.
55:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, and some people have it a little bit easier, some people have it a little bit harder.
55:59
SPEAKER_03: You know, there's all different types of postpartum, OCD, psychosis, depression, anxiety, it's all these different, you know, but it all falls under one umbrella.
56:07
SPEAKER_03: But then I also know that it does get better, yeah.
56:09
SPEAKER_02: So I guess that's yeah, yeah, and I think that's such a strong message, is that it's like especially when you're in the depths of it and it feels so dark to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, yeah.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: It may be very small when you're really in that depth of it, but it is there and it is possible to get out the other side and get all of those bits that you ever dreamed of.
56:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think give it like to you and all the women that you've had on on this podcast, and you know, other women out there that have been through that, is that such a big thing?
56:46
SPEAKER_02: Do you and I really hope that you feel really proud of yourself?
56:50
SPEAKER_03: I it I don't want to sound uh sound bechetti, but I do.
56:53
SPEAKER_03: I think there was you know, there was times when I I was never gonna be able to get out of it, you know, and mental health and postpartum depression, you know, it takes you to the darkest corners of your mind out.
57:08
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, oh no, don't get upset.
57:13
SPEAKER_02: No, I'm just so proud of you.
57:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh do you want a cup of tea?
57:17
SPEAKER_03: Do you want to cuddle?
57:18
SPEAKER_02: No, we'll be alright.
57:19
SPEAKER_02: Let's keep going.
57:20
SPEAKER_03: Are you sure?
57:21
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, honestly, I thought I'd be crying.
57:23
SPEAKER_03: I think I've desensitised this whole conversation now.
57:26
SPEAKER_03: I was like, I was having a little cry, guys.
57:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I I know I was there the whole time, but you're talking about all of this, and I just I'm so proud of you.
57:37
SPEAKER_03: Love you, mate.
57:38
SPEAKER_02: And you are just such an amazing mum, and I think you just you don't give yourself enough credit for for where you've got to.
57:47
SPEAKER_02: And I'm sorry, I got you were on a roll then with I was on a roll, but should we take a short letter?
57:52
SPEAKER_03: Let's take a short break.
57:52
SPEAKER_03: Okay, we'll be back in a minute, guys.
57:59
SPEAKER_02: Sorry about that, guys.
58:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh just need a little bit of a little bit of a break back.
58:04
SPEAKER_02: And we've got another cup of tea.
58:06
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we do.
58:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, and we do do keep having to take a couple of short breaks.
58:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:12
SPEAKER_02: That's okay then.
58:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're fine.
58:14
SPEAKER_02: That's fine.
58:14
SPEAKER_03: Let's get it back into it.
58:15
SPEAKER_03: I'm ready.
58:15
SPEAKER_03: Are you ready?
58:16
SPEAKER_02: Let's do this.
58:17
SPEAKER_02: So um, so talk me through kind of the following months after having Olivia, um, kind of what were you feeling, what were your thoughts, kind of what was going on.
58:30
SPEAKER_03: So after um I'd sort of been discharged from the hospital with my C-section scar, um the days and weeks that followed were were not good.
58:42
SPEAKER_03: I I took myself off to the doctors because again, like things weren't improving.
58:46
SPEAKER_03: Like I was so down, I would cry all the time, I would be so angry.
58:50
SPEAKER_03: And by this point, Alice Tory had gone back to work, so I was like completely alone.
58:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, and the GP um referred me to the perinatal mental health team, and they suggested that I start a course.
59:02
SPEAKER_03: So this course was called a perinatal improve your mood course, and it was for new mums who were struggling just like I was.
59:09
SPEAKER_03: So there were six of us on a course, and it was essentially like a CBCT course to change the way we think into a more positive way because obviously we were all you know very down and very negative.
59:21
SPEAKER_03: So I started the course, and it was seven weeks once a week, and uh it if I'm honest, it was I in some ways helpful, but in some ways it it wasn't it was quite a generic course.
59:34
SPEAKER_03: I need something that was more tailored to my problems.
59:38
SPEAKER_03: Um, so you know, thinking more positively, someone telling you that it's really hard to do, you have to train your brain to do that, and I felt like I didn't really have the capacity to do that.
59:51
SPEAKER_03: At this point, I'd been put on antidepressants, which was like a really the highest dose I could be on, so they would make me kind of function so like I could get out of bed, yeah, you know, and I could brush my teeth and I could have a shower sometimes, you know.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_03: But then there were other days where I was completely just when Tottie was off in the like the day in the mid off in the week, I would just lay in bed like completely like in a paradised state, like I couldn't find the oomph to go and even get dressed some days, and when I did it felt like such an achievement, yeah, which I'm silly, really, because that's such a basic thing to do, isn't it?
1:00:26
SPEAKER_03: Like brush your teeth, have a shower.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, that's I did the course, and as I say, I think you know, I can understand the reasons of why they put me on it, but I think I needed a lot more further help.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_02: And uh how did you find the when you went to the doctors and they gave you the antidepressants and said, you know, go on this uh this course.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_02: What did you think at that stage?
1:00:57
SPEAKER_02: Did you think okay, this is gonna be the thing that's gonna help me?
1:00:59
SPEAKER_03: Or like very naive, like, yeah, if I do this course and I take the antidepressants, I am gonna be absolutely healed.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_03: And when that didn't happen, it was like the world, the world's against me, and this is how I'm gonna be now.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was very much another assumption, and it's not like they told me that was gonna happen.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_03: I think in my own mind that's what I wanted to believe.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's quite a common way to think.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think people think that antidepressants are gonna be that thing that is just gonna heal you, it's gonna fix you.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um I heard an analogy about antidepressants a long time ago, going on 10 years now, um, and I think it was on a podcast or something I'd listened to, um, and they use the analogy that your the antidepressants, if your house is falling down, you put up scaffolding around it to stop the house falling down, you know.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_02: And the antidepressants are the scaffolding, but that's not gonna stop your house falling down if you because if you take those away again, yeah, your house is just gonna fall down.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_02: So you need to then do the inner work to keep the house stable.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, and so I and like I said, I think that's such a common thing where people go, right, amazing, I've got these antidepressants, this is gonna be the thing that fixes me.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_02: And when they go, okay, I can function, but I'm still unhappy, yeah.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_02: Then people are like, Well, this isn't working for me.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_02: Feel a little bit of a lost cause.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's exactly how I felt.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_03: Like I love that because it really was.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_03: But I think if I look back now at that time, it was like I was telling myself that I didn't want to get better or I'd given up the fight.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_03: I think I've been living with this for like you know, four or five months now, nothing had got better.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_03: So I think in some ways I'd I'd accepted it.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_03: Um so again, I didn't want to put in that inner work, you know.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_02: So what was that uh what was that tipping point then?
1:03:01
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that you went actually, you know what?
1:03:04
SPEAKER_02: I am done feeling like this.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_02: I am because I suppose, like you said, the the antidepressants kind of got you to continue to kind of survive, but you weren't thriving at that point.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_03: No, I don't know.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_03: I think it's sort of we I plodded on for another few months and it got into the like the summer months, and you know, we got to be outside a lot, and that was you know another thing Tottie was really good at was getting me outside, and you know, we used to go for lovely walks, and um we went away to Devon in September, which was really nice, uh, like a little caravan holiday, and we had a really nice week, and I was feeling obviously not better, but like there were moments on that holiday that I remember were really nice, like um, you know, Olivia's feet in the sea, and she was laughing and giggling, and you know, I thought, oh god, you know, she's really cute.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_03: And because at this point I was still just her caregiver, there was no paternal bond, you know, she needed a bum change, I'll change that for you.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_03: She wants some milk, I will feed you.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_03: So you know, it there were sort of like little snippets of like laughter during that holiday in Devon.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_03: Um, and that was very short-lived, yeah.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_02: And uh just going on to what you were saying about Totty there, um, for like fathers or friends of people that are going through something similar um to what you went through, or going through you know, through postpartum depression, or just feeling not quite themselves after having a baby.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_02: What were those things or what kind of little tidbits could you say were really helped you to kind of feel a little bit better in your day?
1:04:42
SPEAKER_03: I think number one was definitely getting out.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_03: You know, Todd used to work six till two, so he'd get home, and you know, by sort of half to three we were out having a nice walk, and we'd go and get a coffee and we'd we'd talk, and that was always quite nice.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, and as obviously Olivia got slightly older, we could go to the park and she could go in the swing, and you know.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think he got very good at knowing what I needed, and it was just like little things like I'd get up in the morning and you know, he had put a teabag in a mug for me, and yeah, the washing was done, or he'd made me a sandwich, it was in the fridge for lunch, you know.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_03: Just I remember once, Alice, I went to the bathroom and he put my toothpaste on my toothbrush, you know, just silly things like that.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_03: In the winter, he used to put like my socks on the radio, stuff like that, you know.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_03: Just um he really got to know what I needed, and I was really grateful for him because I couldn't have got through it without him.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, and also just give me those um small moments like for myself, so like half an hour to just go upstairs and read my book or go to big Tesco's and have a wander around the candle section, you know, silly things like that.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_03: So um just allow me to have those moments alone, not being a mum and just being me for or you know, so even going to sleep.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_03: You know, just those really nice things.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_03: Um so Yeah, he was very good at doing that.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_02: And I think that again is it is such an important thing that it is the little things that actually can make the biggest difference.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_02: Going for that walk, giving a mum half an hour to just feel like a human again, um to be able to sleep or just yeah, just go and and and do something.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes even just having a bath, you know, like a bit of self-we know how much you love a bath.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_03: Oh god, it's coming into September month, so I am ready for bath bath time.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_02: So then um kind of you've had that year um of Olivia and it's coming up to Olivia's first birthday.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh that kind of what was going on at that stage for you?
1:06:48
SPEAKER_03: Um so it was coming around to sort of like December time, and my mood had dropped significantly, um, and it was you know getting to the point now where I was becoming like I wouldn't say unbearable to live with, but I couldn't function.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_03: So I could get up and go to work because I'd started my new job, and my new colleagues and my new boss were great, they didn't know any of this.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_03: Um and I went to work, put on my Leanne mask, was all happy and you know, wonderful, and then I'd get home and I'd be like sucked right back into that dark hole again.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_03: Um and I decided to throw Olivia a big birthday party, first birthday party, um which you know seems so silly.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_03: Now I hired a hallway to hired soft play, this bloody big cake, and all these things.
1:07:43
SPEAKER_03: I think again it was to try and make me feel slightly better because I was feeling really bad and it it didn't.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_03: An hour before the party, I had an awful breakdown, and I remember my mum, you know, saying Lian Lian, calm down, and I I just couldn't.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_03: I was you know, because I thought I'm gonna have all these people are gonna come to Olivia's birthday, and I'm gonna be like, Hi, how are you?
1:08:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, really well, really great, everything's wonderful.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_03: And in reality, that was not that was not the case.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_03: And I actually I thought about this, I had a huge argument with my dad the following day, and it was something stupid about getting like some of the party decorations, you know, and him to help me.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_03: And I think he was doing I don't know what happened, but we had a blazing route over nothing.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_03: And what I remember most of that party is we'd um got loads of photos of Olivia's first year printed and put them on boards, and when I was putting him up, I can I still can see it now.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_03: I was like, when was that taken?
1:08:39
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I don't remember that photo.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_03: When who took that?
1:08:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, I couldn't like some of those really milestone moments I couldn't remember because I completely just blocked it out.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_03: So it was a really sad time, and um I remember going to my um uncle and aunties on Christmas Day and and then going home and just sobbing.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_03: And I just said to Tottie, I I can't do this anymore, like I'm I'm beyond the point, like I'm I'm at breaking point now.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_02: Um and just sorry, you're still taking the antidepressants at this point.
1:09:15
SPEAKER_02: And uh were you doing anything else at this point, or was it just the antidepressants?
1:09:19
SPEAKER_03: Just the antidepressants, just the antidepressants.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_03: Um and obviously I'd gone back to work, which in some ways was saving grace a little bit, um, just to go to work, put on my Lianne front, have a hot cup of tea, and you know, I'm sure mums are listening, hot cup of tea is like rare these days.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I could be Leanne when I was at work, and then I'd come home and I would just switch, like it was like literally like the film split.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would drive up to the house and the dread that would fill me because I was like, I just I can't do this another another day.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_03: Also, going to work and being Leanne and acting, it's exhausting, yeah.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_03: You know, like mentally, it's draining.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_02: I think, especially with a new team, as you said, you know, with I I suppose being at work anyway, you are you do put on a little bit of a front, you're being more professional, but then to also have to try to I suppose be a little bit of the old Leanne that was there before to be able to make sure that you're kind of integrating within this team on top of everything else that you're feeling, it must have been exhausting.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_03: It was, and you know, I used to come home and we put Olivia to bed and I'd just go to bed, but I was that exhausted.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_03: Um so Christmas had come and gone, and I was so low, and I I could turn to Tottie, and I think it was actually on New Year's Eve.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_03: I said to him, I I can't go into this year feeling like this, like I'm just exhausted and I'm alone.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_03: And when I say alone, you know, when I wasn't at work or Tottie was at work, I was alone with Olivia all day.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_03: I was spending all my time with my mum, like any opportunity I would spend with my mum, and I was cancelling plans with people, you know very well.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, people would say, Let's do this, because we always do something for Christmas, don't we?
1:11:14
SPEAKER_03: And couldn't even like do that.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_03: I would say, sorry, I'm ill, or Olivia's ill, and it wasn't, it was just that I didn't want to go because I could not bring myself to be in an environment that was all happy when I was feeling like the polar opposite to that.
1:11:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, so me and Tottie had a discussion, and we we I decided we decided to um move back in with my mum and dad in the new year.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_03: Um I just needed some further support, and obviously my parents have been absolutely fantastic for that this whole process, they you know they still are.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it sounds so silly, but I just needed my mum out.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just needed my mum.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_03: Um and we moved back in at the start of I think it was Feb start of Feb of 2025.
1:12:01
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I guess this is when things took a real big turn for me and for the worst.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you were still you still massively were putting on this front.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_02: I think that mask had definitely started to slip, and I think yeah, us as your friends had known for quite a while that you something was going on, but you weren't ready to talk about it.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_02: Um and I can remember you actually bringing me up to say to me, Oh, we're moving back in with my parents, and you kind of skirted around the reasons why you were moving home um into sort of like a a mutual kind of supporting each other, you supporting your parents and you guys saving money and thing uh you know, but I I you could also kind of still hear a little bit of almost like shame in that, but you were like, Oh, I'm I'm moving back in with my parents.
1:13:00
SPEAKER_02: I said, you know, I I can remember having the conversation with you and being like, that's a great idea.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_02: Like you'll be able to save some money and just trying to show you the positives in that because I could see that actually knowing you and knowing you for however long, 25 years that I've known you, knowing how central your parents have been in that support for you.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, so I kind of in my head when you said that I thought, oh, you know, this is actually gonna be a really good thing for you, yeah.
1:13:34
SPEAKER_02: Um but I I suppose you're gonna talk about those kind of next stages after that.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_03: I think I I'll add on as well, like when you say about the shave, I was just embarrassed.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_03: I'm a 30 how was I 33-year-old woman, and I can't even live on my own.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_03: You know, I've got to go back to my parents' house for this support because I can't get myself better.
1:13:59
SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, it was a really hard decision, but it was the right one.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_03: So we we went back home and um and it was sad, you know, we sold all of our stuff and literally went home with suitcases and and that was it.
1:14:15
SPEAKER_03: And you know, my mum and dad were so lovely, they set up, they got rid of their dining table, they set up a little living room for me for us, they did the garden for Olivia and she had her own room, dad painted it all, like you know, they really made us feel like you know, I'd lived at Burmold Road all my life, but they just made me feel so special for going back home.
1:14:34
SPEAKER_03: But um, in the weeks that followed me moving back, this is where things take a turn, and this is sort of a trigger warning for anyone when I continue the story.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_03: Um, but my mental health it was at its worst, at the lowest, and this is now around the time where I start getting like fleeting thoughts of um like you're a bad mum, and they start creeping back in, you're a bad mum, Olivia doesn't like you, Olivia hates you.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then and then one day a thought came and it said, you know, I think it would just be better if you went.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_03: Um, and when it first happened, I was like, Don't be so stupid, like I would never do something so silly like that.
1:15:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, but that in voice, and when I say voice, it was my internal thoughts, yeah, um, became stronger and stronger and stronger as the days and weeks went on, and it got to around um March time, and it was a Wednesday, I remember.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_03: Uh, my mum and dad had gone on holiday, and I think they were really dewy about going, and I was like, no, no, go, because they needed a break.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you know, I know that I'm going through it, but my mum and dad and Tottie are living with me, they're also going through it.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, in these times, there's there's a lot of rage from me, resentment, anger.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_03: You know, like I'm not a nice person to be around.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_03: So for them, you know, it's a struggle.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_03: So I was like, you need to go away and get away from it for a week and enjoy yourselves.
1:15:55
SPEAKER_03: Um and it was a Wednesday, and I thought about this the day before Tottie had taken the day off, and we'd taken Olivia to Pepper Pig World.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you know, those photos are off on Facebook right now, and I look like a really happy mum, and I was happy because I had decided that the following day it was gonna be my last day on earth, and I had planned what I was gonna do, and I'd written my letter, and I in the morning I woke up on the Wednesday and I felt like peaceful, which sounds really strange, but I was at peace with my decision, right?
1:16:30
SPEAKER_03: And I wrote all the reasons down of why I should do that, and you know, my mum and dad were away, and Tottie was at work, and I was gonna do it around the time that Tottie came home, so then he could get Olivia, and then you know, Olivia's gonna have a parent that loves her so so much, like you know, instead of me that doesn't like her, she's gonna have support from nanny and grandad, you know, she's gonna be so loved, and I can't give her that.
1:16:57
SPEAKER_03: Um, so it was that that was the decision that I'd made.
1:17:00
SPEAKER_03: And so Tottie works 6 till 2, so his lunch break is at like 11 in the morning, which is you know strange.
1:17:06
SPEAKER_03: But he came home that day for lunch, and Tottie never comes home for lunch.
1:17:10
SPEAKER_03: He gets a 40-minute lunch, like it's not a lot, and that day he decided to come home and he effectively saved my life because he walked in the door, and I think he just knew he could see that I was just Olivia was at down having a nap, and she he could see that I was just something wasn't right.
1:17:29
SPEAKER_03: And when I've asked him about this, he said I said to him, like, you know, why did you come home that day?
1:17:33
SPEAKER_03: And he was very much like, um, he said, I don't know, I just felt like I just needed to see you to make sure that you were okay.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_03: Um so after he came home, um he stayed at home, he did not go back to work, obviously.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_03: Um and he said we need to get you some help now.
1:17:57
SPEAKER_03: We need to we need to get you some further help now.
1:17:59
SPEAKER_03: We you can't keep doing this on your own or alone.
1:18:02
SPEAKER_03: Um and that day we walked into town he said come on, let's get out and have a little walk and get some fresh air.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_03: Because again, I've just been stuck in the house for days because I've not wanted to leave.
1:18:17
SPEAKER_03: Um and I remember walking through town and I was like a zombie owl like I was like the lights on, but nobody was home.
1:18:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I didn't really know what was going on like around me.
1:18:27
SPEAKER_03: Um and it was at that point that I saw a good friend of mine, Katrina.
1:18:33
SPEAKER_03: She was stood in town, and she Totty said, Oh hi Trina, and she walked up to me and she looked me in the eye, and I the only way I can describe it is that she just saw me that day.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_03: She saw me in a state, and she asked me, Are you okay?
1:18:53
SPEAKER_03: And it I said no, and I just blurted everything out.
1:18:57
SPEAKER_03: And I felt like not that she was forceful, but I feel like she understood it, she got it, and she saw me that day in such a state, and I think you know Katrina's been through her own struggles and you know, motherhood and things, and I feel like that day she just saw me and she understood it and she realized how far how bad it had got.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, um and I basically just told Katrina everything, and it was the first time that I'd ever just said it, said it how it is and how bad it's got.
1:19:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:19:33
SPEAKER_03: So effectively Tottie and Katrina saved my life that day.
1:19:37
SPEAKER_02: And just going back to kind of when Tottie came home earlier because obviously you'd said you were very at peace with what you were gonna do and you were kind of ready to to kind of end it all and then Tarty cut comes through the door.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_02: What was it about the fact that at that stage that made you start to open up about what was going on that you because it it from the sounds of it, you very much internalized all of this beforehand.
1:20:14
SPEAKER_02: Was it just because it was that break in yeah?
1:20:19
SPEAKER_03: He kind of like when he walked through the door, I felt a bit of relief that I was like, oh well, I I can't go through with it.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
1:20:29
SPEAKER_03: It was a little bit of relief of seeing him, and there's a reason he came home that day, Al.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, whether you want to believe in or that hoo-ha, I don't know, but um, you know, he there was a reason he came home that day, and that reason is why I'm sat here now with you talking, you know, and I feel like in some ways I realised that when he walked in the door.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
1:20:53
SPEAKER_02: And then uh obviously it's it's not an easy thing to say to somebody this is what's going on in my head, and this is kind of what I was thinking about, especially to your husband who you love, the father of your child, and someone who has been through loss of another loved one.
1:21:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, but to be able to be brave enough to say it and just say, look, I'm I'm really struggling now is so like so brave, and I don't think people give people enough credit for saying that, yeah.
1:21:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, and obviously the people that support you through that, but it's it's such a brave thing to not go through that alone.
1:21:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think, and in the back of my mind, I'm glad you said that, in the back of my mind, you know, that was a small part of me that was like, I can't put them through this.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_03: He's just gone through the worst time of his life with his dad, and then his wife is now gonna do this, and he's gonna be left alone with this baby.
1:22:00
SPEAKER_03: And you know, there was a very small part of me that that that did think about that, and whether that him walking through the door kind of knocked that to the front of my mind, I don't know.
1:22:12
SPEAKER_03: Um but you know, I I truly believe there was a reason he walked through the door that day, yeah, and effectively did save my life because I was so at peace, so at peace with it.
1:22:24
SPEAKER_03: But I think because I'd just given up the fight, I'd given up essentially.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_03: I was like, I can't fight this anymore.
1:22:30
SPEAKER_03: And what you said earlier about the mask slipping, yeah, I couldn't contain it anymore.
1:22:34
SPEAKER_03: And you know, going back to like Liv's first year, the people would come and visit Liv that probably listened to this podcast that had absolutely no bloody idea, you know, no idea of what happened, and they're gonna be hearing this and thinking, Oh my god, I didn't even notice.
1:22:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, because I got good at putting that that front up, my cut old colleagues, you know, old friends I hadn't seen for a while, you know.
1:22:57
SPEAKER_03: Everybody came to see the baby, and I just had to put on this front, and I think you can only do that for so long, yeah.
1:23:03
SPEAKER_03: And I just I'd given up.
1:23:05
SPEAKER_02: It gets exhausting, yeah.
1:23:07
SPEAKER_02: It was, it was it really was.
1:23:09
SPEAKER_02: And then I suppose, like you said, bumping into Trina, yeah, and her just being there and being that safe space to kind of talk to and actually just say, you know what, I'm not okay.
1:23:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, like how did you feel once you'd actually spoken to Trina and kind of got it all all out?
1:23:36
SPEAKER_03: In some ways, I felt lighter.
1:23:39
SPEAKER_03: I felt like um I needed to get it all out, so then it's out in the open and I've said it, and it's not just in my head anymore, like it's actually been verbalized, you know.
1:23:52
SPEAKER_03: And then I have Trina who's such a close friend of mine, of ours, you know, no judgment whatsoever, yeah, you know, like just completely you know, told me what I needed to do.
1:24:04
SPEAKER_03: Okay, Leanne, we need to find you a private therapist, you need to go back to the GP, we need to start, you know, sort of created like a plan for me and and basically told me what I needed to hear.
1:24:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:24:16
SPEAKER_03: Um, and within you know, 48 hours, Totti had found a private therapist who dealt with like birth trauma and postpartum depression.
1:24:25
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, 48 hours later I was in in private therapy, yeah, and it was like the best thing I ever did.
1:24:32
SPEAKER_02: And I think that there was a couple of points that you made there about number one, you told Trina when there was no judgment there because from all of the conversation that we've had today, a lot of it's manifested from from judgment.
1:24:48
SPEAKER_02: The reason that you kept everything and internalized everything was because you didn't you felt like, oh, people are gonna think I'm a bad mum, people are gonna think I can't cope, people, you know, all of these things that are going round and round in your head, and then that those kind of that vo your internal voice saying to you, Oh, but that makes you bad, that people are gonna judge you for that, and actually from your story and from all of the stories of all the mothers that you've had on this podcast, there's not been that judgment there, no, and it's again that's such an important thing to remind all of us that actually people aren't judging you for these things, yeah.
1:25:36
SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, you've just gone through a really awful thing that's happened to you, and you know it it's it's just snowballed, and it is so important to see that that judgment actually isn't there, it's very much internalized.
1:25:49
SPEAKER_03: I think you can catastrophise it very much in your head, can't you?
1:25:51
SPEAKER_03: You know, definitely.
1:25:53
SPEAKER_03: Um but we live in a judgy world as well, that's the problem, yeah.
1:25:57
SPEAKER_03: You know, and when you're online like I am, and you see all these comments and things, you think, Jesus Christ, people are brutal.
1:26:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, especially for um new mothers, yeah.
1:26:10
SPEAKER_02: So I can't even remember what the comedian is, but he did this really funny bit about new mothers, yeah.
1:26:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, about like it doesn't matter what you do, essentially you are gonna be judged by someone, you know, don't lose the baby weight too quickly, you must lose the baby weight, you must breastfeed, you mustn't um get your babes out in public.
1:26:29
SPEAKER_03: This is what I mean.
1:26:30
SPEAKER_03: I did the post a few weeks ago, mother honestly.
1:26:33
SPEAKER_03: Who gives a shit how you feed your baby?
1:26:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, who cares if you had a C section or whatever?
1:26:39
SPEAKER_03: Like nobody cares.
1:26:40
SPEAKER_03: I don't.
1:26:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it's funny because I can say that now.
1:26:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes, but you know, but again, that judgment isn't from the people around you, and I think that is what all of us I mean, we're all chronically online.
1:26:54
SPEAKER_02: I haven't had a child, I I feel judged by the people online, you know, and it becomes the centre of your kind of thought process.
1:27:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think like I I even have to tell myself this is you have to kind of restart to think actually, the judgment I should care about the people that know me, yeah, people that love me.
1:27:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they're not gonna judge me for that.
1:27:16
SPEAKER_02: They're not the people gonna be judging you, you know.
1:27:18
SPEAKER_02: I know, but anyway, sorry, you went on a bit of a tangent.
1:27:21
SPEAKER_02: Fine, not a problem.
1:27:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, so then you've told Katrina, and she's been amazing because she's kind of given you like a almost like a step-by-step guide of right, these are the bits to do.
1:27:32
SPEAKER_02: And I think uh coming, you know, she's she was a mother, yeah.
1:27:37
SPEAKER_02: And so she's kind of she's kind of a little bit of a step further forward than you are.
1:27:44
SPEAKER_02: And I suppose that was probably a really great person to bump into because you know, Tottie was there and he was great, but he was probably in that situation where he was like, right, okay, what are the next steps?
1:27:57
SPEAKER_02: And so having somebody else being able to Come in and go right, these are the next steps to do that, probably really helped, yeah, to move that on a little bit a bit more.
1:28:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
1:28:09
SPEAKER_03: And you know, Tottie didn't really know what to do.
1:28:12
SPEAKER_03: I obviously had no bloody idea what to do.
1:28:14
SPEAKER_03: So having Katrina to come in and say, right, this is what I think you need to do, was just it's what I needed.
1:28:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I needed like a plan, a plan of action.
1:28:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, and also like this plan of action was gonna be my last hope, so it had to work, you know.
1:28:33
SPEAKER_03: But also, Trina spoke to me a lot about um, you know, get like trying to obviously get myself better and and trying to bond with Olivia and things, and she said these things, and uh in my brain at that time, after I'd had that thought that and you know I was gonna plan to do what I did, it never happened again, and my brain somehow decided itself to become more positive, and that's how I knew that I there was still a spark left for me to fight, you know.
1:29:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, and it just took it took a long time, but it you know essentially was the best thing ever.
1:29:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and with each person that you were kind of bringing into this, I suppose it's kind of secret, yeah, that you were kept by yourself for such a long time.
1:29:25
SPEAKER_02: How was that?
1:29:26
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's a it's always going to be a difficult subject to break, yeah.
1:29:30
SPEAKER_02: But kind of how did that make you feel when you started talking to more people about it?
1:29:37
SPEAKER_03: It it better, and I felt like when I'd spoken to Katrina and I said it all out loud, and there was absolutely no judgment, I knew that I could take it further, so then I would call you guys and say, This is what's happened, and this is how I'm feeling, and then sort of my wider family members would then find out, and you know, the closures, and then I sort of let my colleagues know I'm not doing great, and you know, so um, and of course, you know, lo and behold, the support was indescribable, you know, the thing that I'd feared for so long of being judged, just it never came to fruition because nobody ever judged me, yeah, one person.
1:30:19
SPEAKER_02: And then did you also find that actually the more people that you talked to about it, the more you realised actually a lot of people have struggled with a lot of things that have maybe bottled them up?
1:30:34
SPEAKER_03: Yes, absolutely.
1:30:35
SPEAKER_03: It it started a conversation, it created a conversation, yeah.
1:30:39
SPEAKER_03: And you know, in my brain, you know, a year ago, I'm looking at all these our friends and who have mums and they're having a great life.
1:30:46
SPEAKER_03: Look how lovely their life is on Instagram.
1:30:48
SPEAKER_03: And then when you sit down and you really ask them, and then that all their stories come out, and you're like, Oh, right, but I was I felt so alone in it because I didn't talk about it, yeah.
1:30:59
SPEAKER_03: Whereas if I'd hadn't spoken about it and reached out to the people closest to me who are parents or have been through tough times, things might have been different, yeah.
1:31:08
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's just the main point of this conversation is you just need you need to talk, yeah, and hence why I've created the motherhood honestly, because there's not enough awareness of maternal mental health, it's not spoken about enough, yeah.
1:31:24
SPEAKER_02: And just even having like starting a conversation, if it helps one person, then I've done I've done my job right, yeah, yeah, exactly that, and I think it's it's such an important thing, and I mean, you know, I don't have children myself, um, but I've got a lot of people around me that have had children, and I think you know, we've got a really close group of friends, but I think actually, really, until you started talking about your struggles, I don't think I'd really understood how difficult all of our friends, you know, had lots of friends that have had, you know, maybe not to the same level as you, but have found parenthood difficult.
1:32:16
SPEAKER_02: It is it's it's the hardest job you'll ever do.
1:32:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I think it is it, and then I think it just kind of it makes it really opened my eyes to a lot of things, you know.
1:32:32
SPEAKER_02: And the majority of my friends who are mothers are also working.
1:32:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:32:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:32:40
SPEAKER_02: You also have to be a functioning adult as well as having no sleep and like having all of these hormones rushing around your body and all of these other external pressures of you know, life, and you just can't do it all.
1:32:57
SPEAKER_03: No, you actually can't do it all like, and but mothers are expected to out.
1:33:00
SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's the problem.
1:33:02
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:33:02
SPEAKER_03: That's the issue with today's world, yeah.
1:33:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, but it's it is so refreshing to to hear people talking about the struggles that they have.
1:33:13
SPEAKER_02: Um and I know we're gonna go come into it a little bit later about kind of your community and kind of what you're doing here, um, but it is it's just so nice to hear that, and I think you know, I as I've said it's not something that is necessarily I would start that conversation because I've not been there, yeah.
1:33:36
SPEAKER_02: But the more of my friends that become mothers in different circles, I think it then has helped me also to start having those conversations with other people and just checking in, and and then you know, if someone is struggling, being able to say, Oh, well, you know, my other friend has been through you know has had struggles as well, and then kind of referring friends to each other.
1:34:03
SPEAKER_03: That is do you know what Al that's actually happened this week.
1:34:05
SPEAKER_03: I had a friend call up and say that somebody at their work isn't doing so well, and you know, sort of signpost them to me.
1:34:13
SPEAKER_03: And I'm not saying I'm the guru for post-partum depression, absolutely not.
1:34:17
SPEAKER_03: I've just opened up a conversation about it, and what I noticed is when I started talking more about my journey and my story, I found thousands of other women who have gone through the same thing, and that was all because I decided to share my story, yeah, you know, and I think that is such a big part of it, isn't it?
1:34:36
SPEAKER_02: Is if you don't feel alone because a lot of what you've talked about on this podcast is feeling alone, yeah, feeling like you're on your own and doing this, but just knowing that there are other people out there that yeah, might not be going exactly through the same thing as you but can understand why you might be feeling the way that you're feeling, yeah.
1:34:56
SPEAKER_02: I think that just makes you feel a little bit less alone.
1:35:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think also with the women on my podcast, you know, there's elements of those stories, you know, their story that anyone mum can relate to, you know, whether it's mine, whether it's you know, anyone else who I've interviewed, there's elements that you can pick out and I think also I'll just because it's ongoing, but it's like the Lindsay Clancy trial right now.
1:35:20
SPEAKER_03: People and mothers all over the world you know, they may not be in that situation situation, but there's elements of her story which you know bring you back to a time when you might have felt like that, you know.
1:35:34
SPEAKER_03: Um so just I think it's so important opening up the conversation to it and you know the positive uh energy and just that's come from just starting this is unmatched, unmatched.
1:35:48
SPEAKER_02: And but I suppose it's taken you a long, a lot of work and a long time to get to this point where you feel probably comfortable enough sharing you know, your experience with your wider community.
1:36:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:36:03
SPEAKER_02: So I suppose that all started really, I suppose, when you went into therapy.
1:36:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:36:08
SPEAKER_02: So can you talk a little bit about that and your experience?
1:36:12
SPEAKER_03: My uh my experience with therapy was very positive.
1:36:18
SPEAKER_03: I remember the first day I went and um she sort of it was kind of an introduction, and I kind of did what I did with Trina, just sat down and told her my whole story, and you know, again, no judgment, and she you know, she sort of asked questions, and that was the kind of the first one.
1:36:33
SPEAKER_03: And again, I remember going home and thinking, oh well, I don't feel any bloody better.
1:36:37
SPEAKER_03: But you know, that was the first one, and then I remember the next time we spoke a little bit about um the guilt I felt around not feeling anything for Olivia, and we worked a lot with that, and she used the analogy, and I'll always remember this to the day I die.
1:36:53
SPEAKER_03: She said, Um, obviously, I had a very traumatic birth and it was a traumatic situation.
1:36:58
SPEAKER_03: So she said, If Leanne, if I walked into this room now and held a gun to your head, would you feel love?
1:37:05
SPEAKER_03: And I said, No.
1:37:06
SPEAKER_03: She said, 'Cause that's a traumatic situation, isn't it?
1:37:09
SPEAKER_03: And I said, Yeah.
1:37:10
SPEAKER_03: She said, So why would you expect to feel love in that traumatic situation, i.e.
1:37:14
SPEAKER_03: Olivia's birth?
1:37:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:37:16
SPEAKER_03: Um, there's no expectation, you shouldn't expect to feel like that, and it always stuck with me.
1:37:20
SPEAKER_03: And I feel like as soon as she sort of said that, my guilt felt less.
1:37:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:37:24
SPEAKER_03: You know, and when Olivia's older, maybe I will talk to her about it and and tell her the reasons why, you know.
1:37:30
SPEAKER_03: Um, but that guilt sort of became less and less, and I and we spoke a lot about positive moments, especially uh in in the first year, so we pinpointed out things like Olivia saying Mama for the first time, and her laugh and her giggle, and how supportive Tottie'd been.
1:37:48
SPEAKER_03: And we we you know, we really delved into kind of all of the positives that happened over that sort of 18-month period.
1:37:54
SPEAKER_03: Um and I'll always remember I'd had a really lovely session, and this is probably we're now looking at like July, August of last year.
1:38:03
SPEAKER_03: And I remember coming home in the garden and I walked in and Olivia and Tottie were playing in the garden, she ran up to me, she said, Mama and it was like liquid gold.
1:38:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was that rush of love that people feel when they have their baby, or it's like laid on the chest.
1:38:19
SPEAKER_03: That's when I felt it, and it was the most incredible feeling, and I from that point on our bond has only just got stronger.
1:38:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I have to be mindful that that is only in August last year, one year ago, you know, um, which is scary to think, really.
1:38:38
SPEAKER_02: Um but it's also a really nice thing to think, yeah, because especially for mothers that might be going through through the kind of postpartum stages where they they aren't feeling hopeful and thinking, well, this is how I'm gonna feel forever.
1:38:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:38:54
SPEAKER_02: Because everyone talks about as soon as you see your baby and they put it on your chest, you're gonna have this overwhelming feeling of love.
1:39:01
SPEAKER_02: And then you're like, Well, if I haven't had that now, then I'm never gonna get it.
1:39:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the fact that actually you put in the work and you've worked really hard and and you've had a really great support system around you, and it can come later.
1:39:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that is such a like an inspiring thing to think about.
1:39:19
SPEAKER_02: I think you know, for people that might be in the real depths of darkness with this, yeah.
1:39:25
SPEAKER_02: Thinking actually, there has been times where this does come later.
1:39:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:39:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I think that's a really, really nice thing to come out of it.
1:39:36
SPEAKER_03: And as I say, like it only it only got better, and and I as sort of last year went on, we we moved back out.
1:39:42
SPEAKER_03: Um I felt like the therapist had given me the tools and the coping mess mechanisms, sorry, to be able to deal with situations and uh like tackle them head on, like I was strong enough to and I had a wobble in December last year, my anxiety started to creep back, and it obviously means that around that time I am a little bit triggered by that.
1:40:05
SPEAKER_03: But I had the tools and the coping mechanisms to nip it in the bud before it got too late, and you know, there's an example of you know, we were all coming to yours for dinner, and I just didn't feel like I could, so I removed myself of the situation for my own mental well-being.
1:40:20
SPEAKER_03: You guys understood it, I felt better, so it's just things like that.
1:40:24
SPEAKER_03: You just have to kind of manage it, um, and know what's right for you, yeah, you know.
1:40:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, so but I think that's also a a really important thing because it is always gonna be a work it you always have to work for it.
1:40:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't want to sit here out and say that I'm absolutely healed and perfect because that's not the case, you know.
1:40:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, but things are but it's definitely worth the work in.
1:40:50
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely, and it was like um, you know, a few weeks ago we were gonna go to the pub, weren't we?
1:40:54
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, No, I'm sick, I can't come.
1:40:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we were uh there's a running joke with a couple of us in in our group of who's gonna be sick this time.
1:41:03
SPEAKER_02: Is it gonna be Leanne or Olivia?
1:41:06
SPEAKER_02: Um and I really liked the way that Jasmine actually dealt with it this time because actually it was one of the first times in a long time that Leanne had instigated us to go out.
1:41:18
SPEAKER_02: And she was like, it's gonna be like going back to 2010.
1:41:23
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be going out.
1:41:24
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Is Leanne okay?
1:41:26
SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
1:41:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, she was instigating this whole big night out, and we said, right, well, why don't we start the pub like on a on a Friday afternoon and then we'll see how things go.
1:41:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, everyone was on board.
1:41:39
SPEAKER_02: And it's this was kind of maybe a week's turnaround.
1:41:43
SPEAKER_03: Literally, I was like, let's rally the trees.
1:41:45
SPEAKER_02: Never happens when you have a group of friends who are in their 30s that have children, yeah, and like it takes about six months normally to get everyone together.
1:41:54
SPEAKER_02: But it was it was all coming together, and we were like, Oh my gosh, this is gonna be a great night, especially if Lianne is going to be going like wild.
1:42:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then it gets to the day Leanne puts a message in the Greek, so sorry guys, can't come, I've got a cold.
1:42:14
SPEAKER_02: I actually had though, you didn't have a bit of a snotty nose, like not a single drip of snot, was it?
1:42:23
SPEAKER_02: Um but Jasmine, I I think, and again, you may you know you're the one who is going through this, but I think Jasmine did a really nice kind of gentle pushback on you, and she just said, Oh mate, we really wanted to see you.
1:42:43
SPEAKER_02: Um why don't you just come to the pub for a quick uh diet coke and see how you feel?
1:42:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, no pressure.
1:42:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, like how was that it works?
1:42:56
SPEAKER_02: I came.
1:42:56
SPEAKER_02: She came to a great time.
1:42:58
SPEAKER_03: I didn't have a great time.
1:42:59
SPEAKER_03: A good couple of glass of wine.
1:43:01
SPEAKER_03: I it's what sometimes you need, isn't it?
1:43:04
SPEAKER_03: That little bit of push from your friends, and but it just goes to show that even in my present life right now, sometimes I get anxious and I can't be in situations and sometimes I need to be coached or just a little bit of help along the way, you know.
1:43:20
SPEAKER_02: And I think you have become a lot better at it.
1:43:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:43:24
SPEAKER_02: Not saying you're perfect, no, absolutely not.
1:43:27
SPEAKER_02: But just being honest, I think, about it.
1:43:31
SPEAKER_02: Because there there's been other times where like I and this was probably really trying to like trying to like push the boat out with you, is we've also done um we're doing a bottomless brunch in London.
1:43:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, yeah.
1:43:44
SPEAKER_02: Um and I can remember you ringing me up the week before and you were like, I'm feeling super anxious about this, and like I don't know if I want to come.
1:43:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think that was really great that you were just being honest about it saying, I don't think I can do this.
1:43:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:43:58
SPEAKER_02: We had a conversation about it, said, Look, if you feel like you know, you don't have to make a decision until the day.
1:44:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:44:05
SPEAKER_02: Like uh and I think you actually being honest and talking about it, you didn't come to that, which I think was fair enough.
1:44:12
SPEAKER_02: It was a really big ask.
1:44:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, because it was at the beginning of the year, maybe February.
1:44:19
SPEAKER_02: It was early.
1:44:20
SPEAKER_03: It was for Sarah's birthday, so it would have been January.
1:44:22
SPEAKER_02: Um but just talking to people about it, and I know we talked about it, I was like, well, maybe if you just you know get ready, see how you feel.
1:44:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:44:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, but there was no pressure on it, and it was like, you know what, if you don't come to this one, let's find something that we can do.
1:44:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a little bit more on on your level because you're not necessarily one for going on crazy on bottomless branches.
1:44:44
SPEAKER_02: I was like, maybe we do something like bowling.
1:44:46
SPEAKER_02: I hate bowling, by the way.
1:44:48
SPEAKER_03: We did a Sunday roast, and actually I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
1:44:50
SPEAKER_02: So and so I think that's another thing is like once when you're a mother that's kind of getting back to who you are, um it's about taking it one step at a time, doing the things that you really enjoy in a social setting.
1:45:08
SPEAKER_02: Um but I suppose it's it must be hard when you're kind of you're working on yourself and you've been feeling down for so long, kind of instigating those sorts of things.
1:45:19
SPEAKER_02: But maybe it's about actually having a conversation with your people, your group of friends, your husband, whoever it is, and just saying, look, I I need to try and kind of reintegrate myself into my social circle or whatever it is.
1:45:39
SPEAKER_02: I don't really have the energy to be like instigating this and planning this all.
1:45:45
SPEAKER_02: But I would love to do something like this with you guys.
1:45:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, the way I'm feeling, I may cancel on the day.
1:45:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm so sorry, but this is I I'm I'm doing my best, and I think you'll the people that love you will be able to go, you know what, yeah, let's do this, let's see how we can do it.
1:46:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm very lucky now that I have such a strong support network, as in you know, my friends of 25 years and you know, my other sets of friends and and such a strong family and husband and colleagues.
1:46:17
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm very lucky that I have I have my village, you know.
1:46:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm very blessed and very grateful for that.
1:46:25
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, yeah, and I think and I was talking to this with somebody else that it is so important.
1:46:33
SPEAKER_02: Actually, I think we talked about we went for a curry.
1:46:36
SPEAKER_02: It sounds like we go out all the time.
1:46:37
SPEAKER_02: We don't we went out for a curry and we were talking about somebody else and saying how you know they didn't have that village, and so it is a lot more of a struggle for people who don't have that village, and unfortunately, you know, we're not all fortunate enough to have that village, but I think there are so many lovely people out there and you can find your village.
1:47:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you might not have that at the moment, but you know, with things like this podcast, and there are so many great chat forums and all sorts.
1:47:14
SPEAKER_02: So I'd probably say and you'll probably know this way better than me, so just don't be afraid to ask and and just speak to people, send people a message, you know, like I've seen you talk about this, yeah.
1:47:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you know, great things can come from that as well.
1:47:33
SPEAKER_02: So um I do think it's important to have a support network, but if you haven't got that support network, there are support networks out there absolutely.
1:47:42
SPEAKER_02: So how is Totty doing?
1:47:46
SPEAKER_03: No, he's good.
1:47:47
SPEAKER_03: He he's good.
1:47:49
SPEAKER_03: He I think after the the death of his dad and you know watching me sort of go through that I think he is, you know, very he's in a very big advocate for mental health now, whereas I think before Tottie was a bit of a stiff up a lip under the carpet, you know, get on with it type of guy.
1:48:10
SPEAKER_03: He's very open about talking about the mental health now and communicating with me and other people around him about how he is feeling.
1:48:19
SPEAKER_03: Um so I think you know, he did the best he could in the situation we were in.
1:48:24
SPEAKER_03: And I know that he is I won't say traumatised by it, but it's affected him.
1:48:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know.
1:48:32
SPEAKER_03: Um but we take each day as it comes, he's an amazing father to Olivia, like they're just two peas in a pod.
1:48:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you've seen them.
1:48:42
SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, we went back home to see his mum in May, and it was and they met Olivia and and it was a lovely, lovely time.
1:48:51
SPEAKER_03: Um a bit of sweep because you know, obviously his dad's not there.
1:48:54
SPEAKER_03: So I think he is a very strong person and he held himself together very, very well.
1:49:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:49:00
SPEAKER_03: Um and I think how he supported me during all of that time whilst mourning the death of his dad, I'll forever be grateful for him.
1:49:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, oh god, I'm gonna get upset.
1:49:18
SPEAKER_02: The way that you've supported each other has been amazing.
1:49:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you didn't have a choice, yeah.
1:49:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:49:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's um I'm very grateful for.
1:49:30
SPEAKER_03: Very grateful.
1:49:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think it's it is important to also talk about the fathers or or you know, the the partner um in that scenario because it does affect the both of you.
1:49:50
SPEAKER_02: Because I can imagine from the partner's perspective, it must be so heartbreaking to see the person that you love struggling.
1:50:00
SPEAKER_02: to to bond and and just be who they were before and also seeing this baby that they might have really strong loving feelings for and just yeah just it must be such a difficult situation for them to be in and even my my parents out you know for the sort of eight months we live with them you know they went through hell and back and they watch me deteriorate and like you know lose myself my spark and you know my mum still gets upset now if I talk about it you know she really does and it upsets me because I you know I don't want to upset them um but I know that that affected them a lot as well you know um but I'm again forever grateful for them because they just are incredible yeah incredible parents and I've been very lucky to oh someone's shouting in the garden having a lovely time with the garden um so yeah I'm very very just grateful for everybody in my life yeah and you and I and and I think it's also been good because then I suppose all of those people that are supporting you also are supporting each other.
1:51:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah um and I think that's really nice as well because yes obviously it is you going through it but it's the people that are around you like you said with your mum yeah it's really hard to see the people that you love going through such a yeah a traumatic time.
1:51:33
SPEAKER_03: I think as well I'll just quickly say you when you know we were back home and I was sort of going through everything I was going through and obviously Tottie is still mourning the loss of his dad it felt felt very much like I'm not to say my dad was not you know helpful and supportive but it's like my mum took on me and my dad took on Tottie does that make any sense yeah I think sometimes I suppose the way that men and women um process things it can be quite different.
1:52:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah um you know but it's it's not saying that men should just go down the pub and just have a beer and just be alright.
1:52:10
SPEAKER_02: It's still really good for men to talk.
1:52:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah absolutely and my dad and Tottie did you know like and my dad kind of when Totti's dad passed away my dad was on him like I've got you you know I'm here yeah um and I think that's great I think that side that kind of vulnerability that sometimes men feel like they can't open up with and have and be vulnerable and say you know what I'm actually really struggling and this is really difficult for me.
1:52:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah um so I think it is really good that Tottie had your dad there to to kind of lean on and he's also got some really great friends as well like Dan he just you know um but it is also important just to check on I suppose the partner as well yeah so how are you doing now would you say I mean I'm okay I'm okay uh obviously we spoke about I do have days where you know sometimes it's harder than others but again I've got the tools now to manage it my bond and my relationship with Olivia now is the best thing of my whole life like I've never experienced that I like a love like it it's and she is amazing you've met her you know her very well she she loves her auntie legend she is legend she's hilarious she's very funny she's so funny and she's very headstrong very headstrong she knows what she wants yeah she doesn't want to do something you'll know about it um but no she's she's great and yeah I feel like I'm kind of rebuilding myself one day at a time and each day is is getting better and better and now I can sit here I did have a cry actually just now but I can talk about it you know um and be quite open about it so no I'm I'm okay no I can definitely see you getting your Spark back thanks mate and um no I'm just I'm I've already spoken about this but I'm so proud of you and everything that you're doing and being such an advocate for you know the struggles that mothers parents go through um I think it's such a a huge topic that not enough people talk about um and so for you to be not only have gone through you know a horrific time but to be brave enough to actually share your story along with all of the other women that have shared their story on your podcast like I am so in awe of all of you women because it just as we've already talked about being a parent being a mother is already the hardest job in the world but having to do that whilst dealing with mental health and your other issues it's just it's so it's I I don't think mothers are celebrated enough and and just how much you guys do and and yeah I'm just in awe of you all I think you're amazing.
1:55:12
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
1:55:13
SPEAKER_02: I think you're amazing um so just before we go I'd love to know obviously now you've interviewed quite a few women on this podcast what has been your I suppose your biggest takeaway from the women that you've spoken to um and this whole experience for you so far?
1:55:36
SPEAKER_02: I think just how resilient and strong women are and you don't see it when you're in it and and then when you're out of it you're like I am a fighter all these women and all these stories you know everybody's got their own individual story mother or not all women just they have to go through like hell and back but they'll come out fighting yeah and just how strong we are you know and say how resilient we are and just if you put in the work brighter days are coming yeah you know yeah definitely I think yeah the yeah I think the resilience point is massive like the stories that I've heard and you don't you know you might see these women walking down the street and they look okay they might look a little bit um disheveled or a little bit flustered but you would never look at them and think God that woman's been through psychosis you know it you just you and we've talked about this a lot throughout this podcast about women do very well at masking and it's just masking is exhausting.
1:56:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah so just being able to go actually I'm not okay um and build yourself back up again as well that whole piece of doing the therapy going to people and saying I'm not okay going to the doctors that fear of judgment all of the these parts of it are a big milestone that you have to go through and they will be emotionally exhausting.
1:57:18
SPEAKER_02: And to be able to kind of you know do that work and get to the point where you are now and look back and just think my God I've been through the ringer here and I'm still and I'm and I'm starting to thrive again that must be such an amazing feeling like I know how proud I am of you but you must look look back and and think wow I've come so far I do and not it's not me sounding you know like big headed but I I'm very proud of how far I've come but I'm also very proud of the work that I put in and how how strong I was yeah you know even when I nearly did give up you know and like you just said about walking down the street and you know that woman had psychosis that woman lost a child you never know and I think just be kind you know and I think that's a really important message is just to always be kind because you just never know what anyone's going through.
1:58:22
SPEAKER_03: They might be at the very start of their journey or they might in the middle of it or you know you just kindness is free you know just be kind to people and be and like we said just no judgment yeah and on a final night we are gonna finish guys yeah sorry sorry I'm like finally finally um if you could go back to yourself when you were kind of really in the deep depths of of your depression what would you say to her I would say please stay because you're about to witness the most amazing thing as a woman and as a mother and just fight one more time and don't be afraid you're gonna have people that are gonna help you but you've just got to fight one last time and I did and look what happened you know um and that you'll laugh again.
1:59:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah like a proper belly laugh and you know we've had many moments in the last few months of just you know just you'll and and finding you'll find the enjoyment in things again the world will become lighter you know but I think the main thing would just I tell myself just to stay stick around yeah isn't just wait to see what happens yeah well the Anne thank you so much for sitting down with me thank you for interviewing me because I know that was that was a big ask you know and we've talked all the way through this podcast and obviously I've been here and we've been friends for 25 years um and we've obviously talked about your struggles but I think hearing it all in one big thing I think it just it really put into perspective a lot for me so I really appreciate you being so open and honest.
2:00:31
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you and um yeah I think we've we've done a good stint on this we have had to keep stopping this might be my longest podcast sorry guys I like to ramble I like to jog um but no it's been it's been amazing so thank you so much Leanne and um yeah and we'll see you on the next one.
2:00:51
SPEAKER_02: See you on the next if I'm ever sick you'll be you'll be co hosting that's a big pair of shoes to fail I don't think I can do that