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How Bartering Works · Stuff You Should Know

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  Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
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  Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with a barely awake Charles W.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant. Who's drowsy? I'm not drowsy. You look drowsy? Really, Yeah,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: that's totally different. When you get to be forty, you
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  Speaker 1: just you look drowsy all the time. Are you rested?
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I just woke up? Crud? Yeah, I got something to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: look forward to all downhill, buddy, I'll tell you something
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  Speaker 1: that the prisoners in Florida's state penal system have something
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  Speaker 1: to look forward to, springs off fall. In addition to that, okay,
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  Speaker 1: buying honey buns at the commissary? Is that? Is that
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  Speaker 1: the new guy on sub black Sea? You know what
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  Speaker 1: I wrote about this, and somebody had a funny comment
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  Speaker 1: like that honey buns joke? Yeah, uh no, which is
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  Speaker 1: really terrible joking. I think about it, but um no
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  Speaker 1: actual honeybuton you know, like the pastry dessert. It's the best.
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  Speaker 1: Love it, do you? It depends on which brand you're
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  Speaker 1: talking about. In my opinion, Krispy Kreme honey buns are
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  Speaker 1: pretty rocking. I never tried about are they frosted? Oh,
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  Speaker 1: I've got to try one of those. I had no idea. Yeah, wow, Okay, Well,
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  Speaker 1: the ones I'm talking about coming cellophane. They're sold for
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  Speaker 1: about a buck or so UM in prison, so you know,
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  Speaker 1: it's not the greatest brand on the planet probably probably
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  Speaker 1: um And apparently in Florida, I think around the country,
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  Speaker 1: but in Florida in particular, they're like the new prison currency.
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  Speaker 1: Honey buns are because it's a new product that people
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  Speaker 1: just crave. No, it's just been kind of quietly building
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  Speaker 1: up over time, and everybody's been making the cigarette joke
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  Speaker 1: for decades and didn't noticed that, actually tobacco is out
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  Speaker 1: sold in the in the Florida State penal system by
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  Speaker 1: honey buns. Everybody loves a honeybun. Yeah, so we're envelope.
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  Speaker 1: They're like the number one seller in state prisons in
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  Speaker 1: the county. In the county lock up, uh free dried
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  Speaker 1: coffee and ramen noodles still outsell honeybuts. But if you're up,
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  Speaker 1: if you're up the river in the state, honey buns
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  Speaker 1: are number one. Wow, and then envelopes because people are
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  Speaker 1: clearly like to write their letters, right, yes, or they
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  Speaker 1: use envelopes as napkins for hunting buns. It's just dumb
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  Speaker 1: if it seems like they would give them envelopes. Come on,
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  Speaker 1: if these guys are gonna take the time to write, somebody,
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  Speaker 1: give them an envelope. No, you gotta buy it, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: with your thirty five cents an hour making license plates anyway. Um,
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  Speaker 1: so these honey buns are They're used as bribes for protection. Um.
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  Speaker 1: They're used in exchange for other food items, maybe some
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  Speaker 1: envelopes if you're running low. Right, they're used for bets
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  Speaker 1: as wagers. Seriously, there's a really cool article in St.
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  Speaker 1: Petersburg Times that was really well written about it. Right,
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  Speaker 1: but what these people are doing, Let's say in the
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  Speaker 1: case of a bribe, Let's say, um, Todd, the white
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  Speaker 1: collar criminal who somehow ended up in a state prison,
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  Speaker 1: is paying Tiny, the ironically named huge guy, for protection
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  Speaker 1: in honey buns. What's going on there is bartering. Todd
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  Speaker 1: is bartering a honey bun in exchange for Tiny's service protection,
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  Speaker 1: beating the tar out of guys who want to take
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  Speaker 1: Todd's honey buns or he himself not doing that with
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  Speaker 1: his own cronies. Now that's a racket, that's that's not
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  Speaker 1: necessarily the same thing. Oh yeah, still trading without money,
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  Speaker 1: I guess. So okay, So, so we've finally reached the
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  Speaker 1: end of that god awful intro and we're now talking
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  Speaker 1: about bartering, Chuck bartering new or old old old as
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  Speaker 1: the hills, Uh, the earliest civilizations. Josh bartered for stuff
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  Speaker 1: because there was no currency back in the day. So,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, caveman took took that. We always
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  Speaker 1: talked about cooktok trades. Uh, you know animal pelt for
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  Speaker 1: spear made from rhino horn. Yeah, because he's he's like,
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  Speaker 1: I've never seen one of those, but I've got all
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  Speaker 1: these great pelts, and you look a little cold. So
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  Speaker 1: let's work out a deal here parting it is, And
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  Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, it is pretty old. Um. It really
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  Speaker 1: started to take off after we left our hunter gatherer roots, though. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: once we settled down into communities. Yeah, it made a
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  Speaker 1: lot more sense. Um, you might be some sort of
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  Speaker 1: farmer and end up with a surplus. You've got all
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  Speaker 1: the grain you need, but you need some meat too,
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  Speaker 1: And this guy over here has some pigs that have
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  Speaker 1: been looking pretty delicious lately. So you trade them some
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  Speaker 1: of your surplus grain for a pig, and the guy
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  Speaker 1: who has pigs gets some of your grain, and he
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  Speaker 1: has pigs. You have pigs and grain to everybody's happy. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: Jerry thinks this whole thing is funny for some reason.
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  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean that's how it all started. I
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  Speaker 1: actually did a report in um elementary school. We had
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  Speaker 1: to social studies report where we had to devise a
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  Speaker 1: city of our own, like a town, and we had
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  Speaker 1: to construct you know, how it all looked at and
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  Speaker 1: what they did. And I was the only kid who
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  Speaker 1: had a barter system instead of money. The teacher thought
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  Speaker 1: at the time that that was very you know, a
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  Speaker 1: very smart kid for doing that, because I was, you know,
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  Speaker 1: like nine years old. Every once a while, you just
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  Speaker 1: kind of like drift off while you're taking a shower
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  Speaker 1: thinking about the congratulations the teacher gave you that day.
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  Speaker 1: That was my last one congratulations chuck. So that has
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  Speaker 1: stuck with me all these years though, that it's funny
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  Speaker 1: that as a little kid, I thought bartering was kind
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  Speaker 1: of a cool system, and it and it was and
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  Speaker 1: it still is. We'll find out. Yeah, um, there's a
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of cool. Maybe cool is not the
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  Speaker 1: right word. I don't think cool is an economics term,
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  Speaker 1: but there's it has a lot of benefits and that uh,
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  Speaker 1: Bartering generally doesn't lead to surplus, right, it leads to
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  Speaker 1: um basically people just having what they need. Yeah, you're
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  Speaker 1: exchanging something you need or something you have that someone
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  Speaker 1: else needs for something that you need. And in most cases,
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  Speaker 1: most cases, you don't want a whole lot of leftovers.
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  Speaker 1: You just kind of you have something that you're willing
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  Speaker 1: to exchange for something else. Everybody's seeking an even trade,
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  Speaker 1: so nobody's giving anybody a lot more than they need
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  Speaker 1: or you know, conversely screwing the other person over and
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  Speaker 1: taking as much as possible because both parties have to
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  Speaker 1: be cool with it. Right, there's no trade, so there's
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  Speaker 1: not a lot of surplus. Not a lot of surplus.
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  Speaker 1: To anyone who's read Jared Diamonds, the greatest mistake in
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  Speaker 1: the history of the human race means that you don't
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  Speaker 1: necessarily have anybody who's in charge or has control over
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  Speaker 1: other people. By controlling the surplus interesting very well. When bartering, Josh,
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  Speaker 1: it's everything's relative obviously, because if you need if you
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  Speaker 1: live someplace where it's cold and you need more shelter blankets,
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  Speaker 1: let's say or whatever, or let's modernize and say heater,
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  Speaker 1: or then that's going to be pretty valuable to you. Right. Um,
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  Speaker 1: what you're talking about is the relative value of an item,
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  Speaker 1: right exactly. So like in a money system, like there's
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  Speaker 1: a fixed value to the dollar, and it fluctuates, you know,
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  Speaker 1: there's inflation and deflation and stag inflation. But ultimately, when
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  Speaker 1: you're coming to somebody with a dollar, you both have
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  Speaker 1: an agreed upon awareness of what that dollar's worth, which
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  Speaker 1: is a dollar, Like you were saying, with a heater,
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  Speaker 1: somebody who lives in a hot climate is going to
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  Speaker 1: value that thing less than somebody who lives in a
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  Speaker 1: cold climate. So the person in the cold climate would
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  Speaker 1: be willing to pay more or trade more for that
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  Speaker 1: relative value. It's the distinction between um, bartering and money,
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  Speaker 1: one of them, um, but the main one. It's my favorite.
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  Speaker 1: Timing is another big deal when it comes to bartering,
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  Speaker 1: because depending on when this is happening and what your
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  Speaker 1: situation is things canna have a different value. Uh. The
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  Speaker 1: article used an example of Richard the third my Kingdom
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  Speaker 1: for a horse when he was in a battle. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: I was on a hike in Utah one time where
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  Speaker 1: I would have paid a thousand dollars for a bottle
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  Speaker 1: of gatorade or lift down the hill and I wanted
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  Speaker 1: the gatorade? Was that hot and dehydrated? Yeah? It was bad?
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  Speaker 1: Did you were you hospitalized? Now? Now we we hiked
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  Speaker 1: out and made it to the spot and bought like
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  Speaker 1: five gatorades and drank them all. Your urine was just
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  Speaker 1: chunky style, A little bit came out, a little pebbles.
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  Speaker 1: Uh So Yeah, timing has a lot to do with
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  Speaker 1: the value of something as far as how much you
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  Speaker 1: might need that item. Yeah. And Jane McGrath wrote this one. Jane,
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  Speaker 1: she did a good job to remember Jane. Yeah, let
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  Speaker 1: me ask you this, what about when it's not just
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  Speaker 1: a one to one deal, Like you've got corn and
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  Speaker 1: your friend, uh, Ralph next to your farm has cows.
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  Speaker 1: But Ralph doesn't want corn, he wants wheat. But your buddy,
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  Speaker 1: your Yeah, your buddy Pete has wheat, so you want
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  Speaker 1: you can arrange a little three way trade there if
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  Speaker 1: you're an innovative guy, and it's called a triangular barter.
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  Speaker 1: And NBA teams do this. Any sports team can, but
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  Speaker 1: it happens more than NBA than anywhere else and stuff,
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  Speaker 1: well just trading players like you know, I want your center,
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  Speaker 1: but you don't want my point guard. You want there forward,
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  Speaker 1: but I'll take their forward and package it in such
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  Speaker 1: a way that it's accommodates everybody. Huh. So that's a
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  Speaker 1: triangular barter, which so you you you are pointing something
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  Speaker 1: out and that it's not necessarily the most common thing
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  Speaker 1: in a barter economy where you have something that I
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  Speaker 1: need and I have something that you need at that
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  Speaker 1: moment too. That well, that's what works because we talked
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  Speaker 1: about timing and relative value, right, that's one of the
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  Speaker 1: downsides of the barter. And it gets even more complex
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  Speaker 1: than a triangular barter. That's a lot of work, you know,
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  Speaker 1: that's a lot of walking. You know, Um, if you
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  Speaker 1: find that third person and so, um Ralph has that
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  Speaker 1: cow you want, Pete has wheat, You have corn, but
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  Speaker 1: Pete doesn't want your corn. You're gonna have to go
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  Speaker 1: find somebody who wants your corn who has something that
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  Speaker 1: Pete would want, yes or more, which is called the
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  Speaker 1: multilateral trade. You can see it gets kind of convoluted
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  Speaker 1: as well. You know, well, and when it gets convoluted,
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  Speaker 1: there's a greater risk for making a bad deal just
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  Speaker 1: to get it over with, just because you really need
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  Speaker 1: that cow. And that's one of the you know, we'll
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: talk about the downside. It is certainly one of them. Yeah, well,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: well I think we kind of are all are we
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: already there? Okay? Well, that's one of the downsides is
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  Speaker 1: that a lot of work goes into this, and in
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  Speaker 1: the end you might settle for less than a great
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  Speaker 1: deal because it's there's so much work involved. Um, there's
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: some other factors that might force you to settle for
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: poo poo deal, and that is um, time works against you.
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  Speaker 1: You remember we kind of used the example of you
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  Speaker 1: with the gatorade. Yeah, yeah, right, Um, were you somebody
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  Speaker 1: who had something to trade for that gatorade at that
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  Speaker 1: moment and somebody came along with gatorade and gouged you?
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  Speaker 1: Say you had tomatoes to trade, right, You kind of
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: need to trade your tomatoes because they're a perishable item.
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  Speaker 1: So time is working against you, so you might take
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  Speaker 1: a bad trade. It's just to get rid of these tomatoes,
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  Speaker 1: right right, or in the article example is a great one.
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  Speaker 1: Let's say you're a craftsman. You build these great banquet tables.
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  Speaker 1: Banquet tables are big and heavy. You go to trade
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  Speaker 1: for tomatoes because you really need those tomatoes. And the
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  Speaker 1: guy was like, hey, you know, I mean, I'll give
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  Speaker 1: you fifteen tomatoes, and I was like, no, this is
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  Speaker 1: worth like three hundred tomatoes. But what are you gonna
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  Speaker 1: do with three hundred tomatoes. So it's when you don't
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  Speaker 1: have equal You've got a lot of small things, you
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  Speaker 1: have one large thing. You're kind of in trouble. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know if you pick the right business model. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: as a craftsman, and even if you even if you
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  Speaker 1: did take, uh, three hundred tomatoes, you're gonna run around,
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  Speaker 1: you know, trying to trade those surplus tomatoes for you know,
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  Speaker 1: um other stuff you may or may not need, which
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: when you could be building tables. You should be building tables.
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  Speaker 1: It's what you do, it's what you're good at. Yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: So that's because you know, bartering initially sounds like, oh
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  Speaker 1: that's so great. You just trade things and there's no money,
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  Speaker 1: and money leads to badness. But it's not that simple.
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  Speaker 1: It's rare that you just find that perfect match and
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  Speaker 1: perfect timing to work out in a wonder one trade
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  Speaker 1: and then establishing that that value considering that everything in
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  Speaker 1: a barter system has a relative value. You know, there's
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  Speaker 1: as Jane put it, you know, comparing apples to oranges
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  Speaker 1: is still comparing you know, fruit of roughly the same
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  Speaker 1: shape and size. She yeah, she points out that it's
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  Speaker 1: a terrible thing. It's like the low man on the
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  Speaker 1: totem pole. Yeah. I gonna start saying, Uh, that's like
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  Speaker 1: comparing cows to table legs exactly. People like, what the
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: heck are you talking about? You just be like, listen
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: to the podcast exactly. So chuck Um. Because our ancestors
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: are four people, UM ran into these problems where they
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: couldn't figure out how many tomatoes equal the table, and
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: when they did, it just was way too much. They
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: got tired of lugging tables around. Um. They came up
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: with something that we call money currency and it solved
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of problems for all of its drawbacks and
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: ills and evils. Uh, money solved a lot of problems.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: It's easier to carry money around than a table, for one. Yeah,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: think about how much a hundred dollar bill ways. Not much,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: not very much. It sits heavy in my pocket, though,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: my friend, it burns mine, It burns all. It can
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: also be divided pretty easily. Sure, you know a hundred
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: one dollar bills still isn't as heavy as a table, right, Yeah, well,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: and it levels of playing field, like you said said,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: then you don't have to compare tomatoes to tables. It's
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: pretty easy to set your price. If people want to
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: buy it, great, then you got your dough and you
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: can just buy your two tomatoes for dinner that night.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: But a cool, that's uh, that's money. You I'm sensing something.
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  Speaker 1: Are you cool with this one? Or you like the
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: barter system? No, it's fine. Which would you prefer money
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: or barter? Uh? Well, I mean as a nine year old,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I thought bartering was kind of neat, and I still
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: like the concept of trading, like the musical instruments section
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: on Craigslist is is lousy with dudes like I'll trade
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: my list Paul for your Martin acoustic. Right, so you've
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: you've hit upon a the modern revival of bartering. It's
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: all over the place. Actually, yeah, I think Craigslist has
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: an entire section for each city dedicated to bartering, specifically
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: right sub sections in the I don't know this, you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I think Craigslist does have a section. But on like
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the music Instruments board, there's people trading just because that's
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: where they seek trades. But um, there's whole sites dedicated
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: just to bartering and bartering services. That's got to be included. Yeah,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Emily actually does that. I didn't know that. Yeah, she'll trade. Uh,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: she's been getting her hair done in exchange for soap.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: And actually the craft scene, the indycraft scene, this like
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: that's all they do is trade, Like you know, I'll
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: give you this kid's jumper for a bottle of lotion
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: and this is uh, you know, bartering is pretty old,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: but a resurgence and bartering isn't new. Um. There was
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: actually an explosion in the late seventies of barter clubs.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Not to be confused with racquetball clubs or swingers clubs,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: which were both also huge in the late seventies. These
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: were barter clubs really. Yeah, they were around for a
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: little while so people meet and swap things. Um, I
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: think it was mail order. Oh yeah, okay, but when
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: you take a look at these clubs then and today,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: what you described Emily doing is is pure bartering. Um.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: But you know one of the big limitations of bartering, well,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: two of the big limitations are geographic boundaries, right, which
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: which the Internet overcomes because you know, some guy in
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Tacoma has something you need is willing to ship it,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: and you have something he needs. Geographic boundaries gone, right,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: But the timing thing is still a problem. So what
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: barter clubs and barter websites have come up with is, um,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: if if the person doesn't have anything to give you, right,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: then they can trade you in credits. Yeah. I didn't
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: know that was going on. That's kind of cool. That's money,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, in a way. No, that's currency. That's it.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Think about a dollar bill. It's a it's a credit,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: it's a promissory note. It doesn't hold any inherent value. Yeah,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: but only within that network is a currency. Like it's
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: not like you can take those credits out to McDonald
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: still say, no, totally, you can't, but it's still currency. Yeah, right,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: So like within that barter network. It's still they're still
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: using currency. It's just so difficult to get past, you know,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: the necessity for currency. That's a good point. Yeah, it's
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: a big shamnon. You were talking about the craft scene
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: being like huge and bartering, right, they love it. Marketing
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: is as well, like business barters, way more than I
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: ever realized. Yeah, I have a stat for you if
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I may. Yeah. Yeah. In two thousand and eight, North
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: American companies, not even internationally, but North American companies bartered
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: twelve billion dollars in goods and services. Yeah, and apparently
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: that was partially a result of the recession, because in
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: two thousand one they did like seven point seven five billion.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: But still it's a substantial amount of stuff that was traded,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: either in the form of goods or services. Right, people
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: striking a deal like Chicos bail bonds will sponsor your
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: baseball team and they'll pay for your jerseys if you
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: put Chicos bail bonds on the back. Yes, you will eventually.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: In the case of the yankees't you remember who their
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: sponsor was? In bad Newspayers Denny's. Was it really? I
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: just saw the other day and I'm like, huh Denny's.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: They were a high profile team. Oh well, they got
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: a high profile sponsor. UM. We were talking about the recession,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: UM accounting for an increase among businesses. One of the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: great things about bartering is you it says you're cash
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: to pay down debt or to keep workers on the
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: payroll or the cash is always good for business. Yeah, Um,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So that's why corporations do it. People do it in
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: times of crisis, which was the case. Well, it's part
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: of the case right now. There's been a huge resurgence
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: in UM consumer bartering, right because of the economy. Yeah,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: but UM in Argentina and I think two two thou nine,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: their economy was really in shambles and they were bartering
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: clubs everywhere. Well. Yeah, in in places where there's natural disasters,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of times, the first thing they will turn
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: to was bartering, at least in a in a temporary
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: sense until they can kind of get things restored, because
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know the end of the world. What's what's
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: that dollar bill going to do for you? You know?
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I read almost that same phrase on a post collapse
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: blog of survival blog and the guy was rambling off
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: items that will be good for bartering. Dollar bill is
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: not among them, of course not. I R S. Josh.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about that, because if you think, hey,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: this is a great way to skirt taxes, I can
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: trade my haircut for my homemade soap all day long?
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Am I outing myself? Now? Ask an auditors? Now? Yeah,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: because you know you're supposed to report this stuff. Yeah. Um,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: those barter clubs from the late seventies actually ruined it
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: for everybody. Um. Time was you could barter everything and
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: not pay a cent of taxes on it. But the
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: barter club that the artificial economy created by the barter
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: clubs reached about an estimated two hundred million dollars um
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: in size, and I R. S went, we want some
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: of that. So they reformed the tax code in and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: came up with the ten B form Proceeds from broker
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and barter exchange transactions and if you're bartering, you have
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: to both parties have to fill one of these out,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: create like a an estimated market value of the goods
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: or services and pay it. Hey, you know when Emily
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: first brought that form home filled it out of it?
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: What is this you had another form. She said, Yeah,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: you can't trade. You gotta pay the piper. And the
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: piper is the I R S. Yeah, it certainly is, Josh,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: but that's not necessarily well that that's a bad thing.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: But the I R S. You can also write stuff
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: off that you you have traded. Yeah, so it goes
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the other way a little bit too, And we would
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: be remiss to not mention that. Yeah, um, you you
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: can right off as an expense something you trade because
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: it's value and it's lost and you didn't get any
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: money for it, which is how the tax systems set up.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: If you're not getting any money for it, it's different
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and stuff that you're getting money for. Well, and they
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: point out that if you get one of those trade credits,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: you could donate that trade credit to a charity and
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: write that off if that charity will accept trade credit. Yeah,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I've never heard these trade credits. I can look into that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: It's money. I mean, is it a point value they
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: assign a wonder. Yeah, there's actually day it's worth this
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: many dollars. Well, one that I came across, dib space
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: um had something called Dibbitts and their trade credits, and
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: there were one dibots worth a dollar, So it's money
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: based on money in a bartering network. Well money, Did
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: we ever say that money inflation? That's one of the
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: downsides of of currency. We didn't say it, but go ahead,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean that's the big deal. Like you
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: buy a peck a bushel of peaches one year for
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: ten bucks, and the next year that might buy ten peaches.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: That's the downside of money. Although I suppose I could
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: happen bartering too. They could just say, rough, peach crop
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: this year now, will only trade you this many for
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: your core. Yeah. That I would think relative value would
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: be affected by supplying demand. Yeah, I mean that makes sense.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I would think it wouldn't happen on such a widespread level, though.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, think about how many people are affected by
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: the dollar bill and its fluctuations, right, Think about how
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: many people are affected by a local peach crop. And
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: that's actually one of the things that barter systems are
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: um so appealing to people these days. There's such a
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: movement towards local economies. Barter system can't be sustained by
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: a country of three million people, so basically everybody has
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: to split up. I read an essay about how um
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: secessionism could save the US and that if we don't
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: break up, we're in big trouble. Yeah, that any any
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: non authoritarian system of government can't be sustained or adequately
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: administered in populations over I think either three million or
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: thirty million. Yeah, it's pretty cool. As in the Utney
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Reader the last month. Get that ought to check that out.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: It was the one with Marge Simpson as Rosie the
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: river Y. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool. I'll check that out.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: So we're done. I'm done. You got anything else except
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: for me? If you want to hear mention of Kyle McDonald,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the kid we mentioned in the house Swapping podcast a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: little prematurely. I guess who traded a paper clip for
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: a house? He had to pay taxes on that, he
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: had to it, I'm sure, I hope. So maybe Corbyn
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Burnson paid one. If you want to see a picture
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: of that kid, you can type in barter at the
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: search bar at how stuff works dot com and that
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: brings up, of course, listener a, Josh, I'm gonna call
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: this one of two eventual mafia letters that we got.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: We got very many who knew by letters took means
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: broken thumbs. Yeah, sit in little boxes? Yeah? Who knew?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: So many people are connected to the Mafia day A
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: lot of people have stories to tell. Yeah. I think
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: it's also like saying like whose name who his Native
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: American and him, Yeah, I do a little bit. I think.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Uh so we're going to read two of those, one
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: of them right now and one on the following episode.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: And this is from Calvin. This is pretty interesting. Calvin
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the Mafia as Yeah, Calvin the MAFIASA. I just listened
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: to the episode about the Mafia, and I have a
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: couple of things to say. Firstly, I am grossly disappointed
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: in both Josh and Chuck for talking about a Joe
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Velichi and not once mentioning the greatest Simpson episode ever,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Homie the Clown. I was disappointed about this one, yeah,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: in which Homer disguised this Krusty gets captured by Fat
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Tony in the Springfield family and tried to convince them
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: that he is all different kinds of people, Joe Vlachi
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: being one of them. I didn't make that connection. I
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: remember He's like, I'm I'm not Homer, I'm Joe Vlachi,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Joe Lachi, the rat he's like something like that. He said,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: if you did mention it, then shame on the editor
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Jerry for removing it. So let's just go with that. Ye,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: let's go with that one, Jerry, shame mind you boo. Also,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I thought you guys would be interested to hear some
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: hypotheses about why it is called the mafia. One says
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: that during the War of the Sicilian Vespers, a woman
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: found her daughter at the Vespers being raped by French
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: soldiers and then ran through the streets shouting mafia, mafia,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: which is a dialectical translation of my daughter, my daughter,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: my daughter, mafia. Did the mafia come to her rescue
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: or what? I don't know, that's just what he says, Sicilian, Okay,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think he's making this up. It's
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: a theory, I'm sorry, hypothesis. The second hypothesis is also
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: a remnant of the occupation of Sicily by the French.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: The word mafia might be an anagram for morta allah
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Francia Italia, which translates into something like Italy longs for
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the death of France. Yeah a f I A huh.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but they both sound pretty plausible.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: To me. So, I guess the word mafia doesn't mean
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: anything it's in a family name or anything like. I
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: don't know. I never really thought about the originally name.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: We didn't cover that. So these are two hypothesis from Calvin.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: He says both of these came from a book called
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: The Secret Society's Handbook by Michael Bradley. Might be complete Bologne,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: because I'm not sure how reliable that book is, but
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: it's sure is interesting. I thought you might like it
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: very cool. Thank you who is that Calvin? Calvin the Mafiosa.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Of course, thank you Calvin the Mafiosa for writing in.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And um, we want to hear from you guys too,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: so we would urge you to send us an email.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: If you have something to trade, we want to hear
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: about it. Wrap it up spanking on the bottom and
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: send it to stuff podcast at how stuff works dot
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: com For moral on this and thousands of other topics.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com. To learn more
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: about the podcast, click on the podcast on in the
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: upper right corner of our homepage. The house Stuff Works
• 27:03
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• 27:10
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• 27:13
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