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Bengals Booth Podcast: Read All About It · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody on dan Board, and thanks for downloading
0:06
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast, the they can read All About
0:12
Speaker 1: It edition as I catch up with Sports Illustrated NFL
0:16
Speaker 1: writer Gilberto Manzano to discuss many of the things he's
0:21
Speaker 1: written about the Bengals this offseason, nearly all of it positive.
0:26
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Core,
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Speaker 1: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's
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Speaker 1: a quick reminder that you can have the latest edition
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Speaker 1: of this podcast delivered write to your phone, tablet or
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Speaker 1: computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the
0:58
Speaker 1: greatest thing since European train travel. My wife and I
1:03
Speaker 1: were recently on a vacation that took us to four
1:06
Speaker 1: countries Germany, the Czech Republic, Austria and Slovakia, and we
1:12
Speaker 1: did it without renting a car thanks to the abundant
1:15
Speaker 1: availability of trains in that part of the world. Our
1:19
Speaker 1: trains were on time, reasonably priced, and with the exception
1:23
Speaker 1: of one hour long trip where the air conditioning wasn't working,
1:26
Speaker 1: a very enjoyable experience. It's something that I think we
1:30
Speaker 1: botched in the US, where tracks that were once used
1:33
Speaker 1: by passengers are now almost exclusively used by freight trains.
1:38
Speaker 1: For most Americans, domestic train travel isn't even a consideration.
1:44
Speaker 1: There is a high speed train that connects Orlando to
1:47
Speaker 1: Miami that opened in twenty twenty three, and they're working
1:50
Speaker 1: on one to connect Los Angeles and San Francisco. So
1:54
Speaker 1: while it's unlikely that we'll ever have the abundant service
1:57
Speaker 1: that exists in much of the world, maybe we can
2:00
Speaker 1: look forward to more high speed trains in this country
2:04
Speaker 1: in the years to come. For my purposes getting from
2:08
Speaker 1: Bearcat games to Bengals games in the fall, trains from
2:11
Speaker 1: Cincinnati to Cleveland and Cincinnati to Pittsburgh would be a
2:15
Speaker 1: great place to start. Now, let's get to this week's guest.
2:19
Speaker 1: Gilberto Manzano covers the NFL for Sports Illustrated, and this offseason,
2:24
Speaker 1: the Bengals have frequently popped up in his columns. He
2:28
Speaker 1: joined me this week to discuss Dexter Lawrence, Joe Burrow,
2:31
Speaker 1: the Bengals wide receivers, and why he thinks Cincinnati will
2:35
Speaker 1: win ten or more games this year. Gilberto, you have
2:39
Speaker 1: written about the Bengals frequently over the last several months,
2:42
Speaker 1: so we have plenty to discuss today. Let's start with
2:46
Speaker 1: a column where you listed NFL offseason winners and losers.
2:50
Speaker 1: Your winners included Miles Garrett going from the Browns to
2:53
Speaker 1: the Rams. That one's pretty easy to understand. Your losers
2:57
Speaker 1: included Mike Vrabel, who's obviously had a rough few months
3:00
Speaker 1: where the Bengals aren't concerned. You listed Joe Burrow among
3:03
Speaker 1: the winners. Why Joe specifically?
3:06
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's because they finally fixed the defense. And maybe
3:11
Speaker 2: I should watched my words a little carefully because I
3:13
Speaker 2: shouldn't say fixed right away. How about boosted or made
3:17
Speaker 2: noticeable upgrades? Because I still want to see this defense
3:20
Speaker 2: on the field. Dan, But when you get a big
3:23
Speaker 2: splash trade and you acquire you know, Deamonson tackle Dexter Lawrence.
3:27
Speaker 2: A second, you bring in some debt with Jonathan Allen.
3:30
Speaker 2: You're bringing boy of Moffitt, who won the Super Bowl
3:32
Speaker 2: with the Seahawks. You know, you got an improving cornerback
3:35
Speaker 2: group with DJ Turner and Dax Hill. So finally Joe
3:40
Speaker 2: Burrow gets some help defensively, because you can't keep scoring
3:43
Speaker 2: forty points per game Dan and then expect to make
3:46
Speaker 2: the playoffs. But I love watching Joe Burrow, so I
3:49
Speaker 2: think for him. You know, offensively they were already there.
3:52
Speaker 2: You could say that's been fixed a long time ago.
3:54
Speaker 2: But defensively, I like the upgrades. And I'm going to
3:58
Speaker 2: go out and a limb and say it is. So
4:01
Speaker 2: I say with hesitation that you know how it is
4:03
Speaker 2: with the defense here. But to me, I like everything
4:05
Speaker 2: they did there.
4:06
Speaker 1: How good does the defense need to be in light
4:09
Speaker 1: of how good they are on offense?
4:11
Speaker 2: You don't have to be that great or special. And
4:14
Speaker 2: I know in today's football then we saw the trend.
4:16
Speaker 2: The Seahawks were dominant defensively, the Broncos, the Texans. I'm
4:20
Speaker 2: so surprised that the Texans couldn't get out of the
4:22
Speaker 2: second round. But you got to have a good defense.
4:25
Speaker 2: But with the benefit for having Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase A. T. Higgins,
4:29
Speaker 2: a Chase Brown. I keep going on and on and on
4:31
Speaker 2: with his offense. You don't have to be special, you
4:34
Speaker 2: have to be definitely, you know, above average. I think
4:37
Speaker 2: I could say, and what's above average? Maybe not allowing
4:40
Speaker 2: more than twenty three twenty four points. That's pretty high
4:44
Speaker 2: and trying to do the math here, but maybe you know,
4:46
Speaker 2: if you keep a team on their twenty one points,
4:49
Speaker 2: that's three touchdowns. That's that's enough, I think for Joe Burrow,
4:52
Speaker 2: because Joe Burrow could average.
4:53
Speaker 3: Twenty eight to thirty points per game.
4:55
Speaker 2: I think the Bills on the Cowboys in the Rams
4:57
Speaker 2: were the highest high score offenses last year. To me,
5:00
Speaker 2: you don't have to be special, but you got to
5:02
Speaker 2: have some bend, don't break approach here for Al Golden's defense,
5:05
Speaker 2: so to me, they are in the right path. And honestly, then,
5:09
Speaker 2: I think a lot of times was it was how
5:11
Speaker 2: do you operate with the salary cap for the Bengals,
5:14
Speaker 2: how do you work around Joe Burrow's contract?
5:17
Speaker 3: T Higgins and Jamar Chase.
5:19
Speaker 2: So I think the Bengals were trying to figure out
5:21
Speaker 2: how do you move money around or create money and
5:25
Speaker 2: build more resources to get this defense going, And I
5:28
Speaker 2: think they figured that out this offseason.
5:30
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, because when the Bengals
5:32
Speaker 1: were able to re sign both Jamar and Tea in
5:35
Speaker 1: the same offseason prior to last year, I think a
5:38
Speaker 1: lot of people said, well, there's going to be no
5:40
Speaker 1: money left on defense. But they've done a pretty good
5:44
Speaker 1: job of structuring these things because this year in free
5:46
Speaker 1: agency you listed several of the names boy A Mafe,
5:49
Speaker 1: Brian Cook, Jonathan Allen. They traded for Dexter and gave
5:53
Speaker 1: him an extension. So even though they are paying Burrow,
5:57
Speaker 1: Chase and Higgins at the top of the scale, they've
6:00
Speaker 1: managed to adjust their cap and set you way that
6:03
Speaker 1: they've still been able to sign some people on.
6:05
Speaker 2: D Yeah, then you know, I think the salary cap
6:09
Speaker 2: restrictions are a little bit of a myth and fans
6:12
Speaker 2: like to get into it and they look at over
6:14
Speaker 2: the cap or or spot rack and say, Okay, there's
6:17
Speaker 2: not a lot of money here, how does this team compete?
6:20
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of maneuvers gymnastics or captain gymnastics,
6:24
Speaker 2: I like to call it here with the salary cap
6:25
Speaker 2: where you move money around. But you know, sometimes it's
6:28
Speaker 2: not even that complicated. You have to hit on your
6:30
Speaker 2: draft picks and then you get those rookie deals, the
6:32
Speaker 2: more affordable deals, and I think with this for an
6:36
Speaker 2: office with Cincinnati, that's been a bit of a struggle.
6:39
Speaker 2: We'll see what Shamar Stewart does in year two. But
6:42
Speaker 2: you got to hit on some draft picks and you
6:44
Speaker 2: got to draft develop and that's how you, you know,
6:47
Speaker 2: build a consistent winner. You see all the teams around
6:51
Speaker 2: the league that win every year and they have a
6:54
Speaker 2: high paid quarterback or even high paid wide receivers. You
6:57
Speaker 2: got to, you know, get young and get some affordable contract.
7:00
Speaker 2: But also, yeah, you got to be savvy with the
7:02
Speaker 2: salary cap. You gotta know what you're doing there. And
7:04
Speaker 2: sometimes all about taking shots on guys who maybe are
7:08
Speaker 2: undervalue and maybe they fit in your scheme. And you
7:11
Speaker 2: see what Zach Taylor's doing offensively, and you're thinking, well,
7:14
Speaker 2: that guy wasn't used properly, he's not being highly valued.
7:18
Speaker 2: Bring him over and then you make something work because honestly,
7:20
Speaker 2: when you have Joe Burrow and Chase it makes life
7:23
Speaker 2: easier for everybody. So maybe guys are able to have
7:26
Speaker 2: more beneficial surrounding. So to me, I was never really
7:29
Speaker 2: an issue. To me, it was more about putting more
7:32
Speaker 2: effort into it. And I know that sounds strange to say,
7:35
Speaker 2: but it felt like I think last year it was like, Okay,
7:38
Speaker 2: let's put the football out there.
7:40
Speaker 3: You got Burrow, you.
7:40
Speaker 2: Got Chase, you got Higgins, these guys got paid. This
7:43
Speaker 2: is what you wanted, Joe Burrow, you want this tree
7:45
Speaker 2: to be together, not go make it work. And unfortunately
7:47
Speaker 2: I didn't work out because of the injury to Joe Burrow.
7:49
Speaker 2: But still you could see that when Joe Flackle came
7:52
Speaker 2: in after that trade, he couldn't do it by himself
7:54
Speaker 2: because the defense was still, you know, not performing up
7:58
Speaker 2: to par. So to me, I think it was like
8:00
Speaker 2: a feel out year after these contracts hit, and I
8:02
Speaker 2: think the Bengals did hit it, and you could tell
8:05
Speaker 2: there was pressure because when you make a trade for
8:07
Speaker 2: Dexter Lawrence and you lose a first round pick, you
8:09
Speaker 2: know that they don't do things like that.
8:11
Speaker 3: That says everything.
8:13
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow missed nine games last year. He missed seven
8:16
Speaker 1: games in twenty twenty three. Tow injury last year, wrist
8:20
Speaker 1: injury the previous time. Both of those injuries occurred on
8:24
Speaker 1: normal looking plays. For lack of a better description. How
8:27
Speaker 1: do you view Joe Burrow's injury history at this point
8:30
Speaker 1: of his career.
8:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bit concerning, Dan, but like you mentioned,
8:36
Speaker 2: these are part of the game. Injuries. You just never
8:38
Speaker 2: know where it was going to happen. So, you know,
8:41
Speaker 2: I was a little critical of the Bengals maybe a
8:43
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, when like, Okay, you got to
8:44
Speaker 2: protect this guy better, you got to get some better alignement.
8:47
Speaker 2: But they have paid for offensive lineman. You know, they
8:49
Speaker 2: brought in Orlando Brown junior that comes to mind mems
8:52
Speaker 2: is the first round pickup. But I'm not mistaken there.
8:54
Speaker 2: But they have put in some resources there and they
8:57
Speaker 2: have some good players and interior as well, So you know,
9:00
Speaker 2: you obviously you got to make a full effort, like
9:02
Speaker 2: I mentioned with the defense to protect Joe Burr. But
9:04
Speaker 2: sometimes it's hard to prevent injuries. And I don't want
9:08
Speaker 2: to say that Joe Burrow's injury prone because Dan. I
9:11
Speaker 2: can't get twenty twenty four Joe Burrow out of my
9:14
Speaker 2: mind because he was special on an elite level. And
9:17
Speaker 2: now you got me thinking, I honestly I have issues
9:20
Speaker 2: with the MVP criteria. I know you got to be
9:22
Speaker 2: a playoff team to win MVP, but just pure quarterback performance.
9:27
Speaker 3: I thought Joe Burrow was the best in twenty twenty four.
9:30
Speaker 2: I know Josh Allen got quarterback or or got MVP
9:33
Speaker 2: that year, but to me, just operating and playing the
9:36
Speaker 2: position the best you can.
9:37
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow was that.
9:39
Speaker 2: And I think he needed that season because it was
9:41
Speaker 2: a few years removed from what twenty twenty one when
9:43
Speaker 2: they went to the Super Bowl.
9:45
Speaker 3: So it's easy with Joe Burrow.
9:46
Speaker 2: Ib he's on the field, you're gonna get top five
9:49
Speaker 2: quarterback performance and that's rare to have in the NFL.
9:52
Speaker 2: You got that from Josh Allen. You know, you got
9:54
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes, you got Lamar Jackson. But so it's a
9:58
Speaker 2: rarity for the Bengals, and it goes back to last
10:00
Speaker 2: year where I thought they got complacent because when, yes,
10:02
Speaker 2: when you have Joe Burrow and your roster, you feel
10:05
Speaker 2: like that's enough. But and I go back to this
10:08
Speaker 2: a lot you have been thinking.
10:09
Speaker 3: Then.
10:10
Speaker 2: I remember the prime Aaron Rodgers years with the Packers,
10:13
Speaker 2: and I was so frustrated with the other media members
10:15
Speaker 2: where they just crowned the Packers because they have Aaron Rodgers.
10:18
Speaker 2: I'm like, it takes more than that, and as we
10:21
Speaker 2: found out, it was a struggle for Rogers to get
10:22
Speaker 2: break through that wall. So again, seeing more upgrades for
10:26
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow in a complete roster is going to be
10:28
Speaker 2: a big plus.
10:30
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated NFL writer gilbertill Manzano is our guest. You
10:34
Speaker 1: can follow him on X at g Manzano twenty four.
10:39
Speaker 1: In one of your most recent columns, you ranked the
10:41
Speaker 1: top five wide receiver duos in the NFL, and you
10:43
Speaker 1: said that three teams stand out above the rest. Dallas
10:47
Speaker 1: with Ceedee Lamb and George Pickens, the Rams with Pukinakua
10:51
Speaker 1: and Davante Adams, and then obviously Cincinnati with Jamar Chase
10:55
Speaker 1: and T Higgins. Of those three, you put Cincinnati at
10:58
Speaker 1: the top. What separated Jamar and T from those other
11:03
Speaker 1: great duos?
11:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, it's simple T Higgins. I think T Higgins
11:07
Speaker 2: could be a number one white out on most teams
11:09
Speaker 2: in the NFL, and a lot of times, you know,
11:12
Speaker 2: when I talk to their coaches and players, they they
11:15
Speaker 2: they're a little more biased to their number two white out.
11:18
Speaker 3: They don't want to hurt their feelings. We know Dan.
11:19
Speaker 2: The wide receivers, you know, their little sense in it
11:22
Speaker 2: some times, so you got to call your body one
11:25
Speaker 2: A or Alpha one A or whatever it is. And
11:27
Speaker 2: to me, I think when you talk about a guy
11:30
Speaker 2: who's technically a number two on a team and you
11:32
Speaker 2: mentioned T Higgins, you say, yeah, that guy you pay.
11:35
Speaker 2: And I still can't believe the Bengals figured out how
11:37
Speaker 2: to pay T. Higgins because he did take some of
11:39
Speaker 2: a little bit of a hometown discount. But I've seen
11:42
Speaker 2: time and time again when you know, maybe there's a
11:44
Speaker 2: lot of focus on Jamar Chase and T Higgins has
11:47
Speaker 2: to step up, he does it and a lot of times,
11:50
Speaker 2: and I like, I like watching the Bengals. You could
11:51
Speaker 2: tell it's obvious that Dan because of the offense. But
11:53
Speaker 2: I remember that Broncos Bengals game on a Saturday night
11:58
Speaker 2: late in the season twenty four way just T Higgins
12:00
Speaker 2: tep with some clutch touch, sounds like he has that gear.
12:04
Speaker 2: Sometimes you might forget because Jamar Chase is that special
12:07
Speaker 2: and you and you rely more on Jamar Chase. But
12:10
Speaker 2: on any given day, no matter if it's been a
12:12
Speaker 2: couple a couple of choiet performers.
12:14
Speaker 3: You know, te Higgins is capable of doing it.
12:16
Speaker 2: If Burrow goes down and you need to get Joe
12:19
Speaker 2: Flacco settled in, te Higgins could do it. If Jamar
12:21
Speaker 2: Chase is sidelined for a day, Uh, te Higgins could
12:24
Speaker 2: do it. So to me, that separates the other guys.
12:28
Speaker 2: And and I know that maybe my job is to
12:30
Speaker 2: be critical, So I'm gonna say this. I don't want
12:32
Speaker 2: to be too harsh on the on the Cowboys, but Uh,
12:35
Speaker 2: George Pickens a couple of times disappeared. He's a special
12:38
Speaker 2: maybe more talented. Maybe I'm I'm debating, not in my head,
12:42
Speaker 2: That's what I do for a living. Then debate a lot,
12:45
Speaker 2: but uh, Pickens disappears at times, and I think Higgins
12:48
Speaker 2: is always there for the call. Uh the rams of
12:51
Speaker 2: puking a cool and Devonte Adams, I thought it's more
12:53
Speaker 2: about uh, special surroundings with good coaching and Sean McVay
12:57
Speaker 2: and you have MVP quarterback and Stafford. But I think
12:59
Speaker 2: DeVante Adams is in the back end of his prime,
13:01
Speaker 2: or maybe out of his prime.
13:03
Speaker 3: He's finding a different role in La so on.
13:06
Speaker 2: Just talent quarterback surroundings and clutch gene they have it
13:11
Speaker 2: all there with the receiving do.
13:13
Speaker 1: When it comes to the importance of a position group
13:16
Speaker 1: as it correlates to winning, Where is wide receiver in
13:19
Speaker 1: your mind?
13:21
Speaker 2: It's pretty important today's football, and it's always evolving. That's
13:25
Speaker 2: the beauty about the sport. I like that the mind games,
13:28
Speaker 2: the counter adjustments and what and what's important, and the
13:31
Speaker 2: teams that are ahead of the curve tend to be rewarded,
13:34
Speaker 2: Like the Seahawks went all in with this defense. And
13:37
Speaker 2: I was also pretty critical of the Seahawks, and I
13:39
Speaker 2: was thinking, Okay, you know where's going, where's the offense
13:43
Speaker 2: gonna come from? And they knew they have They had J. S.
13:45
Speaker 2: N who's a special wide receiver, and they bet on
13:47
Speaker 2: him and he took off. But they also built a strong,
13:50
Speaker 2: you know, secondary, they built a strong interior. So it
13:55
Speaker 2: seems like wide receivers ride receivers losing a little losing
13:57
Speaker 2: a little bit of that luster because we are geared
14:00
Speaker 2: into more defenses like Houston and Denver. You look at
14:03
Speaker 2: the top four last year, New England was very good
14:05
Speaker 2: defensively and then the Rams went out and got Miles
14:08
Speaker 2: Garrett and mcduffie', so they know the trends defensively are
14:12
Speaker 2: good right now, but there's still gonna be a big
14:15
Speaker 2: advantage when you have T Higgins and Jamar Chase, And
14:18
Speaker 2: like I mentioned, you mentioned that they are number one
14:21
Speaker 2: on my dual receivering rankings at SI dot com, and
14:25
Speaker 2: I think that gives them an advantage.
14:27
Speaker 3: And I'm not gonna lie.
14:28
Speaker 2: There was times last year when I was running about
14:30
Speaker 2: the Bengals where I was going back and forth about
14:33
Speaker 2: paying T Higgins and investing so many, so much resources
14:36
Speaker 2: to two wide receivers are making what twenty eight million
14:39
Speaker 2: dollars per year, the only two pairing in the NFL
14:42
Speaker 2: doing that. So but I think when you have advantages
14:46
Speaker 2: the things that other teams don't know how to match
14:48
Speaker 2: defensively with the chess game or the chests in the
14:50
Speaker 2: mind game, that's what the Bengals have and they need
14:53
Speaker 2: to figure out how to utilize that more. And Zach
14:56
Speaker 2: Taylor is one of the one of the best coaching
14:58
Speaker 2: minds out there offensively. Yeah, if you have a special advantage,
15:02
Speaker 2: I don't want could stop go ahead and pay for
15:04
Speaker 2: it and keep it around. So if I had to
15:06
Speaker 2: kind of put like a ranking on it, obviously, quarterback.
15:10
Speaker 2: You know, I still really prioritize the offensive line, and
15:13
Speaker 2: I know people always forget the front and then obviously
15:16
Speaker 2: defensive front, and then wide receiver up at cornerback fifth.
15:19
Speaker 2: But by receivers number four, many people have a top three.
15:23
Speaker 2: But again, when you have those two guys, you could
15:25
Speaker 2: definitely create advantages in many areas and you give your
15:28
Speaker 2: offensive line a big boost when you know guys would
15:30
Speaker 2: get opened very quickly.
15:32
Speaker 1: Up text, we discuss a recent column that angered some
15:35
Speaker 1: Bengals fans. But first here's a quick reminder that the
15:38
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by pay Corps,
15:41
Speaker 1: proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by
15:45
Speaker 1: Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed elevate your home,
15:50
Speaker 1: business and community to a new level, and by Kettering
15:53
Speaker 1: Health the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health
15:57
Speaker 1: is the official healthcare provider of the Bengal So Bartiol
16:01
Speaker 1: Manzano from Sports Illustrated as our guest, you had a
16:04
Speaker 1: column recently where it appears that some Bengals fans clapped
16:08
Speaker 1: back a little bit, and that's where you ranked teams
16:11
Speaker 1: by defensive triplets. So a defensive lineman, a linebacker and
16:15
Speaker 1: a defensive back for the Bengals. Your trio is Dexter Lawrence,
16:19
Speaker 1: Demetrius Knight, and Dax Hill. I know some fans questioned
16:23
Speaker 1: why Dax as opposed to DJ Turner, who had such
16:26
Speaker 1: a terrific year last year. What was your response?
16:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was I was a little surprised by that.
16:33
Speaker 2: And maybe that's where the national guy comes in, where
16:36
Speaker 2: he's not there every day and the locals no more.
16:39
Speaker 2: So I'm always gonna you know, you know, see what
16:42
Speaker 2: the b reporters were saying, Well, you know what the
16:44
Speaker 2: fan base is talking about. So that's kind of the
16:47
Speaker 2: job for the national and guy to make sure you
16:48
Speaker 2: know everything about these thirty two teams. But you know,
16:51
Speaker 2: I did notice the improvements from DJ Turner. It just
16:55
Speaker 2: to me, at the end of the day, sometimes football
16:56
Speaker 2: is not that you know, complicated, and uh you look.
17:00
Speaker 3: At the numbers.
17:00
Speaker 2: The second there did struggle individually, you know, you know,
17:04
Speaker 2: Turner did great, And I think a lot of times
17:06
Speaker 2: what people do is they get caught up on the
17:08
Speaker 2: Pro Football Focus grades or whatever advanced status out there,
17:12
Speaker 2: and it says, here are the top five guys who did.
17:15
Speaker 3: Well cornerback for the week.
17:18
Speaker 2: And you see Turner on there on a weekly basis,
17:20
Speaker 2: and that's great enough. But when I see the whole team,
17:23
Speaker 2: the whole second, they're getting you know, Torch on a
17:25
Speaker 2: weekly basis, you're allowing twenty five plus points per game,
17:29
Speaker 2: thirty points per game. Uh, the offense has to pick
17:32
Speaker 2: up the slack because defensively you're not bringing it. And
17:35
Speaker 2: maybe it's it's harsh to penalize Turner individually, but it
17:40
Speaker 2: is a trio and for these rankings, so it's a
17:42
Speaker 2: collective unit. And I think I do consider that more
17:45
Speaker 2: for this ranking. And I'm glad you're asking me that
17:47
Speaker 2: because I want to give you what goes into my
17:49
Speaker 2: mind when I'm trying, when I'm sitting there and making
17:51
Speaker 2: this ranking. And to me, I say, what do the
17:53
Speaker 2: Bengals need? They need they need a lot more, they
17:55
Speaker 2: need more help, and they need more versatility. What can
17:58
Speaker 2: you bring to the table and what can you do more?
18:01
Speaker 2: And I did like what Dax Hill did where he
18:04
Speaker 2: was asked to play slot or on the inside, and
18:06
Speaker 2: maybe he didn't want to do that, he wanted to
18:08
Speaker 2: play on the outside, but he still stepped up and
18:10
Speaker 2: he helped out, and maybe the results weren't as pretty
18:13
Speaker 2: as the Turner had, but bringing that value where the
18:17
Speaker 2: coach could come up to you and say, hey, we
18:19
Speaker 2: need you to play inside. Can you move from the outside,
18:22
Speaker 2: Can you go back to the outside, Can you go
18:23
Speaker 2: back in the inside? And back and forth when you're
18:25
Speaker 2: having a struggle season for the whole unit and you're
18:28
Speaker 2: asked to do more and to help out in any way,
18:31
Speaker 2: and just say and do it.
18:32
Speaker 3: And honestly, I like Dan. I like that.
18:34
Speaker 2: Daks told the coaches this offseason, I want to be
18:37
Speaker 2: on the outside more because the season hasn't started yet,
18:39
Speaker 2: but I'm sure if it's a struggle, you got to
18:42
Speaker 2: play more inside, He's gonna gladly do it. But versatility
18:47
Speaker 2: and bringing it more to a team that needed more,
18:49
Speaker 2: that's why I put Dak Hill there. But yeah, I'm
18:53
Speaker 2: not gonna lie. I did not spend all my time
18:55
Speaker 2: watching Turner video. So when people were screaming at me
18:59
Speaker 2: for that, what I took a note I'm gonna watch
19:01
Speaker 2: more digit Turner. I hate I hate just relying on
19:04
Speaker 2: pro football focus for the grade. So uh, but I
19:08
Speaker 2: will admit I got I gotta I gotta pay more attention.
19:11
Speaker 2: He had a great improvement. I actually was waiting for
19:13
Speaker 2: that improvement after he was drafted. And you know, maybe
19:16
Speaker 2: I stop paying attention after the Joe Burrow went down.
19:20
Speaker 2: But to me, I think being versed on play inside
19:22
Speaker 2: outside was of value. But hey, maybe Turner is a
19:24
Speaker 2: better cornerback Indivigilia on the outside.
19:27
Speaker 1: All right, now, are you ready for my clap back
19:30
Speaker 1: thing that that you wrote recently? All right? And in
19:33
Speaker 1: one of your columns recently, you said that you don't
19:35
Speaker 1: see the Bengals back end making a sizeable improvement. And
19:41
Speaker 1: I would argue that replacing Geno Stone with Brian Cook
19:46
Speaker 1: might be the biggest upgrade that any team made at
19:50
Speaker 1: any position this offseason. You know, you could argue Miles
19:54
Speaker 1: Garrett obviously because of my gradius, but I do think
19:57
Speaker 1: that that change in and of itself there's a significant
20:01
Speaker 1: improvement for the Bengals back end.
20:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could say maybe one of the best undervalue
20:06
Speaker 2: signings or underratied signings of the off season. And that's
20:08
Speaker 2: even one that I feel like I've overlooked because of
20:11
Speaker 2: Dexter Lawrence. And you know, part of it is like
20:15
Speaker 2: with the last few years, What's funny, Dan, as you
20:17
Speaker 2: probably noticed, when you have Trey Hendrickson doing allowed to
20:21
Speaker 2: work for the front, and it's like, okay, can somebody
20:23
Speaker 2: step up? Well, you're bringing Lawrence, you're bringing boy and
20:25
Speaker 2: mo Off, You're bro bringing Jonathan Allen and then Henderson
20:29
Speaker 2: he's gone now to arrival in Baltimore, and it's like, Okay,
20:31
Speaker 2: the front has depth now. It's just unfortunately that you know,
20:34
Speaker 2: Hendrickson was gone now. But uh so I was maybe
20:37
Speaker 2: focused there and then I saw the I'm going by
20:39
Speaker 2: by by a phase, I guess, and then linebacker there's
20:42
Speaker 2: a massive horror linebacker. But yeah, Brian Cook was definitely,
20:47
Speaker 2: uh a savvy signing. And the thing about that where
20:50
Speaker 2: you know, I kind of made a push back a
20:52
Speaker 2: little bit, Dan, It's like, can you do it now
20:54
Speaker 2: with our coach bags? Can you do it now when
20:56
Speaker 2: you're not playing in Kansas City, where you're not when
20:59
Speaker 2: you're not playing with Doug McDuffie and and Jalen Watson
21:02
Speaker 2: and you don't have Chris Jones in the middle, it's
21:05
Speaker 2: gonna be a new look defense. Uh. You still have
21:08
Speaker 2: the you know, returning DC there in Golden but he
21:12
Speaker 2: still has to pick that up and learn the terminology
21:16
Speaker 2: and the scheme and your teammates. So uh, that's part
21:20
Speaker 2: of it too as well. But you're not wrong. Brian
21:22
Speaker 2: Cook is a name that people should you should know
21:23
Speaker 2: more about. Uh, you know, with the cheese being in
21:26
Speaker 2: the playoffs US National guys, we watched Brian Cook a
21:29
Speaker 2: lot and he stepped up time and time again.
21:31
Speaker 3: Uh.
21:31
Speaker 2: He has some clutch plays in Super Bowls. So when
21:34
Speaker 2: you say super Bowls, I mean as you were doing
21:36
Speaker 2: something right.
21:37
Speaker 3: Uh, And and yeah he is. He seems like a
21:39
Speaker 3: guy who's always has a nose for the ball. Uh.
21:42
Speaker 2: You know, maybe sometimes there's some miss assignments there, but
21:44
Speaker 2: he's always in the right spot, you know, a batter
21:47
Speaker 2: pass here, a pick six here, or scoop and score
21:50
Speaker 2: whatever it is. So I think having that playmaker side
21:54
Speaker 2: where maybe you know, you're like I was saying about
21:56
Speaker 2: dak Shill, he's picking up more of the slack. I
21:58
Speaker 2: think Brian Cook could do that. He could be so
22:00
Speaker 2: I much of an eraser, you know, and he's a
22:02
Speaker 2: little versatile. He's not just like a free safety or
22:05
Speaker 2: a box guy. Again, he's all over all over the ball.
22:07
Speaker 2: So when you know that there's somebody behind you or
22:11
Speaker 2: to help you out. You don't have to play perfectly
22:13
Speaker 2: in that mindset, and having less pressure probably makes you
22:16
Speaker 2: play better at the end of the day, for the
22:18
Speaker 2: for the second, for the whole cornerback group in the
22:20
Speaker 2: second there, So that is good there, you know, I
22:24
Speaker 2: think I have to see it more. And maybe I'm
22:25
Speaker 2: not going to push back because you're right, because maybe, yeah,
22:27
Speaker 2: maybe Turner makes keeps going up and up and up.
22:30
Speaker 2: Maybe Dax Hill finally finds his position and he's playing
22:34
Speaker 2: it well. Maybe having that that that helper and Brian
22:36
Speaker 2: Cook can help you out too as well. So uh yeah,
22:39
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna fight you, Dan.
22:40
Speaker 3: You know, I like to argue. That's what I do
22:42
Speaker 3: for a living. Uh but I'll even I'll even help you.
22:45
Speaker 2: I say people should know Brian Cook more, and even
22:47
Speaker 2: myself included, because I can't just keep focusing on Dexa Lawrence.
22:50
Speaker 2: It's great, I like, I like watching Dexa Lawrence play
22:53
Speaker 2: in the middle. But yes, Brian Cook is definitely gonna
22:55
Speaker 2: pay off.
22:56
Speaker 1: I think he's the University of Cincinnati guy and went
22:59
Speaker 1: to high school in Cincinnati. So we've seen a lot
23:01
Speaker 1: of Brian, so I feel like we have some insight
23:04
Speaker 1: into the difference he's going to make with the Bengals.
23:08
Speaker 1: We're visiting with Gilberto Manzana from Sports Illustrated training camps
23:11
Speaker 1: about three weeks away. There's still some big name veteran
23:14
Speaker 1: free agents on the market, including linebacker Bobby Wagner. Now
23:19
Speaker 1: this was back in May, but you wrote then that
23:21
Speaker 1: Cincinnati would be the ideal landing spot for him. To
23:25
Speaker 1: still feel that way about the thirty six year old linebacker.
23:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think Bobby Wagner.
23:31
Speaker 2: I know he might be now, which is weird to
23:33
Speaker 2: say for a future Hall of Famer, a little more
23:35
Speaker 2: one dimensional where he is a little bit of a
23:37
Speaker 2: downhill playmaker. He does struggle in coverage now at this
23:41
Speaker 2: stage of his career. But if you could bring him
23:43
Speaker 2: in for a base defense, you know, for a second down,
23:46
Speaker 2: and then take them off the field for obvious pass
23:48
Speaker 2: the situation, I think you're okay there. I think you
23:51
Speaker 2: have to have a little more in the middle there.
23:53
Speaker 2: And I know that nowadays linebackers are not being used
23:56
Speaker 2: as much. They mean somewhat of a comeback last year
23:59
Speaker 2: with the evensive surges there. Uh, and then more defensive sorry,
24:03
Speaker 2: more offensive playing or using more running backs, So you
24:06
Speaker 2: got to be bigger, you gotta be more beefy uh
24:08
Speaker 2: in the middle to make that counter adjustment. But Bobby
24:12
Speaker 2: Wagner's leadership, uh, you know high football IQ just knowing
24:16
Speaker 2: what's going to happen on the field could help out
24:18
Speaker 2: a young group there. So sometimes not just about you know,
24:22
Speaker 2: can you play three downs and then help out the
24:24
Speaker 2: defense and be Hall of Fame level again. I think
24:28
Speaker 2: that's why Dan Quinn kept kept bringing back Bobby Wagoner
24:31
Speaker 2: in Washington because he knows how he can help out
24:33
Speaker 2: a struggling defense.
24:34
Speaker 3: So uh, to me, I think it's still good fit.
24:36
Speaker 2: Obviously, this is a part of the year that that
24:39
Speaker 2: maybe I get burned a lot, Dan because coaches know
24:42
Speaker 2: what they have on their roster, they know who's gonna send,
24:45
Speaker 2: who's gonna be ready for that breakout year, and then
24:47
Speaker 2: guys like us come over and training cap and say
24:50
Speaker 2: who's that guy? And then the coaches are like, we
24:52
Speaker 2: told you and in February or April that that guy's
24:55
Speaker 2: gonna do well. You didn't believe it. You wanted to
24:56
Speaker 2: draft that guy, you wanted to sign that guy, and
24:59
Speaker 2: here we are. So that's always a big part and
25:01
Speaker 2: I do keep that in mind. And a lot of
25:03
Speaker 2: times people focus on big names a lot and what
25:04
Speaker 2: they've done in the past. Football is not about that,
25:06
Speaker 2: is what are you going to do in the coming season,
25:09
Speaker 2: because it is a young man's game and football's evolved
25:12
Speaker 2: in constantly.
25:14
Speaker 1: The Vegas over underwin total for the Bengals going into
25:17
Speaker 1: this season is nine and a half. You have predicted
25:20
Speaker 1: that the Bengals will go over so my fan base
25:24
Speaker 1: will be happy to hear that. What's your confidence level
25:27
Speaker 1: that the Bengals will top nine and a half wins?
25:30
Speaker 3: Yeah? I know.
25:32
Speaker 2: I've been on the other side here for the Bengals
25:34
Speaker 2: because of the defense and and playing one side of football.
25:37
Speaker 2: But like we started to show, Dan, they made some
25:40
Speaker 2: upgrades and you know, you got the thing I like
25:42
Speaker 2: about this offseason is you got the big star, the
25:44
Speaker 2: splash and Dexter Lawrence. Yeah, you do lose Hendrickson to Baltimore,
25:48
Speaker 2: but then it's the depth. It's the upgrades and in
25:51
Speaker 2: other places like you mentioned Brian Cook, and I mentioned
25:54
Speaker 2: some guys on the front. Yeah, maybe the linebacker of course,
25:57
Speaker 2: still a struggle, but like we mentioned, also, you don't
26:00
Speaker 2: have to be a special defense. You have to be
26:02
Speaker 2: above average or sometimes average, depending on how good Burrow,
26:05
Speaker 2: Chase and Higgins are that Sunday. So if you could
26:08
Speaker 2: just bend no break, I think they could win you know,
26:11
Speaker 2: ten games, and we saw them almost win you know
26:14
Speaker 2: that amount in twenty twenty four with the healthy Burrow,
26:17
Speaker 2: so I still think he's special. I don't think he's
26:19
Speaker 2: injury pro. I think Burrow alone it's like that Aaron
26:22
Speaker 2: Rodgers factor with the Packers. He's gonna get you nine
26:25
Speaker 2: to ten wins. After that, it's up to the rest
26:27
Speaker 2: of the team to see how far you go. But
26:29
Speaker 2: I think it returned to the playoffs would be a
26:31
Speaker 2: big step forward. I think the AFC North is right
26:33
Speaker 2: there for the taking. The Browns are on transition again,
26:38
Speaker 2: Steelers kind of have I feel like they hit a
26:40
Speaker 2: wall in the middle. They bring back Aaron Rodgers will
26:42
Speaker 2: see what they do. And Baltimore is coming from a
26:45
Speaker 2: reset year themselves because they lost their coach in Harbor
26:48
Speaker 2: and they didn't make the playoffs, so who knows what's
26:50
Speaker 2: gonna happen there.
26:51
Speaker 3: So I think the AFC North up for grabs. And
26:54
Speaker 3: I think the Baglands could take it.
26:55
Speaker 1: You rode an extensive preview about the Steelers recently. I
26:59
Speaker 1: kind of got the vibe from what you wrote that
27:01
Speaker 1: you thought that maybe it was time to move on
27:04
Speaker 1: from Aaron Rodgers and this was the time for the
27:06
Speaker 1: Steelers to rebuild is the wrong word, because they're never
27:10
Speaker 1: going to be in rebuilding mode, but maybe transition from
27:13
Speaker 1: this aging core that's kept them relevant but has a
27:17
Speaker 1: limited ceiling.
27:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
27:19
Speaker 2: Then the thing I get frustrated the most, or the
27:22
Speaker 2: teams I get frustrated with the most, are the ones
27:24
Speaker 2: stuck in the mediocre cycle. They just keep kind of
27:26
Speaker 2: just saying, all right, let's do it again, let's do
27:28
Speaker 2: it again. And I think the Steelers I've been stuck
27:31
Speaker 2: in this old mindset like we're the Pittsburgh Steelers. We're
27:35
Speaker 2: gonna be physically defensively, we're gonna have some a good
27:38
Speaker 2: quarterback play, and we're gonna make it tough on you,
27:42
Speaker 2: and we're gonna go far here. But they've hit a wall.
27:44
Speaker 2: It's obvious. The results are there. Twenty seventeen, maybe it
27:47
Speaker 2: was the last time they won a playoff game. Aaron
27:49
Speaker 2: Rodgers is in age forty three, and I thought Rogers
27:53
Speaker 2: played great, but and I was I'm watching a lot
27:56
Speaker 2: of soccer right now, Dan, And when I was watching
27:58
Speaker 2: Mexico England, you could tell one team is playing balk
28:01
Speaker 2: control because they're average and they don't want to give
28:03
Speaker 2: the strikers on the other side a chance, which was
28:06
Speaker 2: like you know, Harry Kane and Judy Bellingham with England
28:09
Speaker 2: and when the second I got the ball, they just
28:11
Speaker 2: ran up the field and scored. And it's unfortunate because
28:13
Speaker 2: on Mexican and that was a struggle. But it fills
28:16
Speaker 2: with the Steelers. They are that mediocre team that you
28:18
Speaker 2: got to play keep away. You got to have a
28:21
Speaker 2: rhythm and timing, you got to slow it down. And
28:23
Speaker 2: you can't really do that when you play the big
28:25
Speaker 2: guns in the NFL, because they're going to light you
28:26
Speaker 2: up for twenty one points and I don't know where
28:28
Speaker 2: you're down two touchdowns and you're playing this slow football.
28:32
Speaker 2: And that's what I view with the Steelers. They got
28:34
Speaker 2: to do something differently. I actually want to see what
28:36
Speaker 2: they do with Drew all of the rookie quarterback. But
28:39
Speaker 2: they've hit a wall there and you got to do
28:42
Speaker 2: a reset and even a team like the Raiders, who
28:44
Speaker 2: have struggled forever. I praise them because they got the
28:47
Speaker 2: number one pick. That is a full reset. You got
28:49
Speaker 2: to be in a reset mindset when the when the
28:52
Speaker 2: results aren't there. The Patriots Receiland did with Drake Maye.
28:54
Speaker 2: They reset it. It's just the way the NFL set up.
28:58
Speaker 1: We have covered quite a few of the things that
29:00
Speaker 1: you've written about where the Bengals are concerned recently. Anything
29:04
Speaker 1: that we have to look forward to coming up in
29:06
Speaker 1: the weeks to come.
29:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm actually gonna start doing my training camp tour.
29:11
Speaker 2: I wish I could make it after Cincinnati. My other
29:13
Speaker 2: colleagues at the Monday Morning Quarterback have Cincinnati, but I
29:17
Speaker 2: am more on the West Coast. I am Los Angeles base,
29:20
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna see I think about nine teams. The
29:23
Speaker 2: Cowboys come out to California. Obviously the Rams are gonna
29:25
Speaker 2: be hyped up with the moles Garrett trade. I'll see
29:28
Speaker 2: the forty nine Ers, Raiders, Cardinals, Broncos, and the defending
29:31
Speaker 2: champion Seahawks. So yeah, check out all the coverage. I'm
29:34
Speaker 2: going to have hopefully some good features, some good reporting
29:37
Speaker 2: that comes out of it. And then also, Dan, like,
29:39
Speaker 2: I'm gonna start doing a lot more draft coverage this
29:42
Speaker 2: year because it's gonna be a very loaded class with
29:44
Speaker 2: the quarterback names. You guys don't need a quarterback there
29:47
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati, but hey, maybe you guys pay attention to
29:50
Speaker 2: that for my draft cover to see which you know,
29:53
Speaker 2: maybe not wide receiver, but which defensive player is doing well?
29:56
Speaker 2: But who knows what they need this time of year,
29:58
Speaker 2: because it's going to be a new season, new results, Bud, Yeah,
30:01
Speaker 2: draft coverage, training camp, and some more futures, especially our
30:05
Speaker 2: NFL Preview magazine's going to come out in August.
30:08
Speaker 1: Outstanding, Gilberto, this has been fun. I really appreciate your time.
30:11
Speaker 1: Thanks so much and keep up the great work.
30:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, thank you for having me on, Dan.
30:15
Speaker 3: It was a pleasure.
30:17
Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this episode of the
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