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The Assassination of Malcolm X: Pt. 2 · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Wait truly good? Sure, and spit at you. I'm a
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: check up, Sure and spit at your th is Wait.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm your host,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me on the phone right now.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Who's this myers?
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Someone else call him? I'm so confused right now?
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: No, No, it's just you. Yeah, I'm getting hundreds of
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: calls already.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I've lost all credibility already.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: It's still weird recording this way, but we're doing it.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: We're still cranking out the con that's short for content.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Saves me time when I talk. How's it going, How's
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: how's being locked down? Treating you?
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Man? My girlfriend's place. So it's it's weird because it's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: the longest we've spent together and we have yet to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: fist fight.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: So it's nice, just like slap boxing and stuff. Not
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: it hasn't escalated to fist fights.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: No, like she was yet to be annoyed with me,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: which is fucking astounded. Like I'm just I've been bothering
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: the fuck out of our Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I imagine a lot of people are bothering the shit
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: out of each other right now.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Didn't divorce rates have spiked in China because of this.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard that, which makes sense. I didn't. I
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: guess I don't know what divorce laws are like in China.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Is it that easy? I bet it's easier than usual.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Who knows, it's.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Gotta be super easy, at least on the dude side.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Fucking godless communists don't value the institution of marriage at all. USA.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: We're today we're doing part two of our episodes about
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: the assassination of Malcolm X. Last week we talked about
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  Speaker 2: the official version of events, and this week we're going
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  Speaker 2: to talk about the conspiracy theory version, which isn't a
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: whole lot different. It's just that the wrong people probably
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: went to jail.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, and who orchestrated it? Really?
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  Speaker 2: I feel like yeah, And I feel like we still
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  Speaker 2: don't want hundred percent know the answer to that, even
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  Speaker 2: though there's a six part documentary, Like there's some suggestion
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  Speaker 2: as to who orchestrated it, but it feels like there's
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  Speaker 2: still more to it than what we've heard so far.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Like it's fucking it's fucking weird. It's weird,
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  Speaker 1: but it's also like kind of in terms of evidence
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  Speaker 1: and like who probably did it? It's like a layup
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  Speaker 1: in terms of conspiracies.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and that I think that has to do
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  Speaker 2: with the fact that Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad and
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  Speaker 2: the Nation of Islam in general, we're so heavily surveyed
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  Speaker 2: ailed by the FBI and so many government agencies that
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  Speaker 2: once all that stuff became declassified, we just had like
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  Speaker 2: hours and hours and like not even hours, just like
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  Speaker 2: years worth of recordings and reports about the assassination of
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  Speaker 2: Malcolm X. And it's sketchy.
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  Speaker 1: Oh absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: Most of what we're talking about today comes from a
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  Speaker 2: documentary that's on Netflix right now called Who Killed Malcolm
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  Speaker 2: X' say six part documentary. I think it actually needs
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: to be six episodes, which is rare. A lot of
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: documentaries are coming out now and they're a whole series,
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  Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, this could have been like two
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  Speaker 2: and a half hours long and we would have been fine.
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  Speaker 1: I think this one could have been. Sure, it's a five.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah maybe, Like there's a lot.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Of like conjecture and stuff that I was like, you
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  Speaker 1: could have you could have condensed us a little bit.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: But I get why they didn't, So I totally understand it.
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  Speaker 1: Like I'm not mad at it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the thing about Malcolm X, his he's just not
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  Speaker 2: his story isn't as well known in this country, so
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  Speaker 2: I didn't mind. Like there was a lot of biography
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  Speaker 2: type stuff, yeah, which in a lot of cases I
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  Speaker 2: would have rather have been skipped, But I feel like
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  Speaker 2: it's it's kind of just a good primer on who
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  Speaker 2: Malcolm X was. In general. The documentary centers around the
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: work of a guy named Abduur Rochman Mohammad, who is
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: a DC tour guide basically yeah by trade, and he,
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  Speaker 2: as it turns out, has been investigating the death of
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  Speaker 2: Malcolm X for about thirty years now.
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  Speaker 1: Also, I think it's fair to say that Malcolm X
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  Speaker 1: completely inspired this guy to like convert to Islam and
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  Speaker 1: like change his name right, which is a huge factory.
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  Speaker 1: He was like when he was like fourteen or so,
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  Speaker 1: he discovered Malcolm X and was like, oh, Muzzlim. Now,
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  Speaker 1: like this guy speaks to me.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he seems like a good dude, and it seems
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  Speaker 2: like his interest in this is purely motivated by justice
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  Speaker 2: and wanting the real killers of Malcolm X to face
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  Speaker 2: punishment for it, which spoiler never gonna happen.
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  Speaker 1: No. Also another spoiler, he finds all the information way
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  Speaker 1: too easily.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just out there. It's just in boxes.
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  Speaker 1: It's like in a basement or like a library. It's
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  Speaker 1: the easiest mine.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it always kills me when, Like even in
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: this show, at one point they interview a guy in
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: his title is official FBI Historian, and he's like, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: we were just really cracking down on the civil rights
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  Speaker 2: back then. It's like, are you proud of this? What
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  Speaker 2: is happening right now?
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  Speaker 1: Also, it's like it's fucking it's mind blowing how many
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  Speaker 1: of these people were like still alive, like they had
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: like the lead detective from that like just still like
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: more spoilers, I'm sorry, going off to the rails.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the one of the people who were
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  Speaker 2: who was convicted of this is out of prison now
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  Speaker 2: and he's in his eighties. And that guy looks fucking great.
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  Speaker 1: He looks so good.
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  Speaker 2: He looks like he is like at one point the
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: we're jumping ahead, but in the documentary they're interviewing this
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  Speaker 2: guy and he's like, yeah, I got kids, who I
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: have a kid who's sixty four years old. It's like,
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  Speaker 2: you don't even look sixty four.
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  Speaker 1: To be fair, though I think he had like four
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  Speaker 1: or five kids by the time he was like twenty
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  Speaker 1: three or so, like that's when he got when he
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  Speaker 1: got arrested.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he went to prison during that stretch
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  Speaker 2: of their lives when they would have aged him and
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: warn him out. So then he got out and didn't
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  Speaker 2: have didn't have to deal with any of that, So
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  Speaker 2: still still got that youthful exuberance. I'm sure that makes
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: everything better. Yeah, hey, cheer up. But he at least
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  Speaker 2: just still look young. So yeah, abduur rock mon, he's
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  Speaker 2: I'm glad people like this exist. There are a couple
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  Speaker 2: other examples. There was a guy named Howard Donahue who
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  Speaker 2: was part of this really famous CBS experiment where they
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  Speaker 2: tried to recreate the Kennedy assassination basically, and he was
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  Speaker 2: the only guy who could do it, and people ever
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  Speaker 2: since then have cited that as evidence that Lee Harvey
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  Speaker 2: Oswald did it. But Howard Donahue was like, no one,
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  Speaker 2: no one could have done this on the first try,
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  Speaker 2: this is crazy, And he spent about thirty years investigating
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: that and I think came up with a pretty valid
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: theory that we've talked about on the podcast. Before and
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: also Tom Grant, the guy who has been investigating the
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: death of Kurt Cobain literally since the day that happened.
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  Speaker 2: And it's a brave thing to be that way in
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: the world as it exists right now, with the way
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  Speaker 2: like conspiracy theorists kind of get a lot of scorn
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  Speaker 2: and ridicule, And it's interesting to see someone dedicate their
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  Speaker 2: life to something like that.
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  Speaker 1: And you consume what you consumed him, Like, I feel
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  Speaker 1: like this clearly like cost him so much in his life,
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  Speaker 1: like his marriage and whatnot. Like this dude was just
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  Speaker 1: all consumed by this.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it I think I understand that because it's
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  Speaker 2: it's one of those things that when you start looking
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  Speaker 2: into the evidence that's just readily available out there in
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  Speaker 2: FBI files and whatnot, it's pretty obvious who actually committed
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  Speaker 2: this murder. Yeah, And like there's a whole community in
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  Speaker 2: New Jersey that has known forever that this guy did it,
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  Speaker 2: and nothing was ever done.
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  Speaker 1: No, it was like, oh, yeah, that's the guy who
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  Speaker 1: did it, and everybody's like wise and arrested or like,
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  Speaker 1: oh we can't talk about that, like it's fucking nuts.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. The argument is basically, well, he reformed his life
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  Speaker 2: and he's better now. It's like he shot Malcolm X.
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  Speaker 2: That was a huge crime. Well he hasn't shot him recently.
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  Speaker 1: No, It's just it's still just mind blowing by how
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  Speaker 1: he just walked the streets and was just like a
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  Speaker 1: hood legend. I was like, that's the guy who did it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like in the documentary at one point, someone's like, man,
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  Speaker 2: I can't imagine having to carry that weight your whole life.
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  Speaker 2: It's like that's who you feel bad for, the dude
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  Speaker 2: who had to carry a murder on his conscience his
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  Speaker 2: entire life.
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  Speaker 1: Like he's he definitely moved on. No, I can't wait
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  Speaker 1: till we just get into Like the documentary, it's about
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  Speaker 1: how this dude's face was just everywhere, Like his name
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  Speaker 1: and face was everywhere.
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  Speaker 2: He's in the video of the crowd beating the other gunman,
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  Speaker 2: and he could not look more fucking guilty in that video.
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  Speaker 2: Holy shit, Yeah, because you see.
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  Speaker 1: The Talmage guy getting beat up by like twelve cops
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  Speaker 1: and people. He's a dozen people carrying this guy and
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  Speaker 1: you see his head stick out like a hand of
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  Speaker 1: Barbara cartoon. And then the dude who killed him just
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  Speaker 1: walking by putting a gun in his jacket and then
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  Speaker 1: keeping it moving.
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  Speaker 2: He looks like he's got a little smile on his face.
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  Speaker 2: He already knows he got away with that shit.
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  Speaker 1: He's just like he might as well thumbs up, like
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  Speaker 1: that one camera that was there. It was crazy, it
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  Speaker 1: was it's like, that's the guy.
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  Speaker 2: It was.
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  Speaker 1: Everything was just so fucking crazy. It was insane.
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  Speaker 2: So, as we mentioned last week, we'll run through the
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  Speaker 2: official version again real quick. The official version of events,
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  Speaker 2: Malcolm X was killed by three assassins, Talmadge Hare, Norman
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  Speaker 2: three X Butler, and Thomas fifteen X Johnson. We know
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  Speaker 2: Talmadge Hare is super duper guilty.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah he's yeah, absolutely, he's a guy in the video.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of Malcolm X's security guards shot him in
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  Speaker 2: the fucking leg so that that was a legitimate conviction.
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  Speaker 2: But as we discussed last week, when he went on
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  Speaker 2: try as it started becoming more and more apparent that
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: the two co conspirators he was being tried with were
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  Speaker 2: actually gonna be found guilty, he made a point of
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  Speaker 2: testifying on their behalf and saying very clearly that not
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: only are they not guilty, but there were actually four
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  Speaker 2: conspirators and none of that mattered. All three of them
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  Speaker 2: ended up going to prison because they were tried together.
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  Speaker 1: No, it's fucking it's a fucking travesty unlike the justice system,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: but totally expected for that time and uh probably still like.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Oh one, Like I feel like we've as a country
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: gotten better at stuff like this, which is scary. Yeah,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Like I I think we still kill people. We just
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  Speaker 2: uh it's not so public and obvious, which I don't
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  Speaker 2: know why they even changed. It's not like the government
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  Speaker 2: ever got caught killing anyone in the sixties, Like.
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  Speaker 1: They just sweep something else or just something else will
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: just come out that's like bigger and we forget about it.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Eat Epstein.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what's going on with that? I'm sure that
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: case is going to get solved real soon.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah right, No, he's just gonna be a Netflix doc
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  Speaker 1: like fifteen years from now. We'll be like, oh, I
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  Speaker 1: didn't know. It's crazy fucking power so fuck yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So basically, this documentary challenges that official theory of what
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  Speaker 2: happened to Malcolm X. And there's basically two parts to
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  Speaker 2: this conspiracy. There's the Nation of Islam's role, which is
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: still very prominent Yeah, they at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 2: are responsible for the actual killing. But then there's also
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  Speaker 2: law enforcements role, which if they didn't somehow directly influence
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: this event, they won one hundred percent knew it was
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: going to happen and just let it happen, which is
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  Speaker 2: uh not how police are supposed to work.
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  Speaker 1: No, like just the well get into it, but just
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: the whole thing is just it's fucking crazy and just
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: like so fucking like wide like wide open, you know
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  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like Malcolm X, someone should have told
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  Speaker 1: Malcolm X, like yo, man, there's like no pops outside.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: We got like no security, like we probably shouldn't do this.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that that lack of security is really important to
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the story. But one of the one of the first
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  Speaker 2: things they challenge in this documentary is the notion that
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Elijah Muhammad absolutely would not have ordered a hit on
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  Speaker 2: Malcolm X. And that is a thing you hear pretty
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: consistently from Nation of Islam members who were around at
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, but also Malcolm X himself, in the
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  Speaker 2: weeks before he was killed, was very publicly telling anyone
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: who would listen that the Nation of Islam was going
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: to kill him soon. So if he thought they were
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: behind it, I kind of trust that.
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  Speaker 1: And also the people that have come out and said
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: that the Nation hasn't didn't put out the hit on
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: him are Nation of Islam members, So like why would
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: their voice like kind of matter, you know what I mean? Right,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Like they're all boys and it's gonna be like, hey,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Elijah Mohmed would never do that. It's like I felt
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: like he he absolutely would.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And the the point they make in the
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: documentary is that he didn't really need to explicitly come
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: out and say, hey, someone kill Malcolm X. Like all
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: he needed to do was just kind of drop the
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: hint that Malcolm X was a problem for him and
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: someone was going to take care of that problem no matter.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: What's so crazy And.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: For proof of this they turned to the experts, which
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: is the FBI. If you if you want any information
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: about Malcolm X or Elijah Muhammad and what they were
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: up to every single day and sixties, the FBI probably
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: recorded whatever they were doing.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Every singlephone call, every single meeting, like they had molds
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: within the organizations on both ends, like and just pages
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: and pages of fucking notes about these guys.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the the number of FBI informants and operatives that
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: we eventually find out they had not just inside the organization,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: but in the room when Malcolm X died. It's mind blowing.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the guy that gave him like CPR was one.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that that's we'll get to that. That's fucking yeah.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: That's probably the craziest detailed.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: It's all fucking instinct. Just like, how did they not
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: notice these new people in the group, you know what
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I mean?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they that's the thing they had to notice, Like
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: the the FBI. I personally like the documentary doesn't explicitly
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: say it, but I kind of feel like the person
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: who shot Malcolm X was probably working for or with
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the FBI absolutely, because they go to a lot of
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: lengths to protect him. And as we learn from the
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: assassination of Malcolm X, the FEDS weren't really uh, trying
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: too hard to protect black people in the sixties, No,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: but this guy they did. Weird. But in these FBI files,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: one of the when they're talking about this idea that
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Elijah Muhammad wouldn't have ordered the hit. Like you said earlier,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: this these files are just there. They're just like they're
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: just in a basement and this guy was like, oh yeah,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: we got boxes a shit.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like almost like no one's ever wanted to look
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: at this, but we have all this like it's it
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: was fucking crazy.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And in one of the logs of Elijah Muhammad's calls,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: there is this quote with these hypocrites, when you find them,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: cut their heads off. And what they say in the
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: documentary is that would have been enough. Like whoever was
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: in the room and heard Elijah Muhammad say that would
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: have just taken it as Okay, well we need to
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: kill Malcolm X. Man and talmuch Hayer also says at
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: one point during an interview which he's passed away since then,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: this is like an old prison interview. Yeah, but he
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: said he wouldn't He didn't need a direct order from
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Elijah Muhammad. He knew what he was supposed to do.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: There were also suggestions that Elijah Muhammad's children were using
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: the Nation of Islam to get rich, and that if
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: something happened to Elijah Mohammad, Malcolm X would be number
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: two in the line of command and he might crack
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: down on all that corruption. So maybe they wanted him dead.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Which again just it all makes sense, Like I know
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: we talked. We touched on it in the last episode
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: about how like Malcolm X is theoretically like fucking it
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: up for a lot of people, Like he was safer
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: being a part of the nation of his arm like
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: spreading like sort of like the rhetoric that they were spreading,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: rather than just going against the grain and being like, no,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: everybody should be equal, we should all be in this together.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Like that's way more dangerous than fucking just being a separatist.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, once he left the Nation of Islam, he was
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: kind of everyone's enemy instead of just the Nation of
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Islam's enemy. Like by by the time he gets to
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: North Africa, like the State Department is basically monitoring him too.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: The thing that really strikes me about this documentary is
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: just like imagine being Malcolm X in that last month
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: of his life, Like just knowing that every force possible
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: in this country, even a group that you helped build,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: is now basically intent on shutting you up forever. That
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: would be such intense pressure. And to still go out
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: and hold these rallies and still keep that commitment. The
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: world needs more people like that. But the government would
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: just kill him.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, We'll just like turn a blind eye, Like they
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: were like that referee who was just like, you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you guys get you guys are going to get any
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: call you want, Like, just do your thing and we're
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: gonna make sure you win.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like we saw the same thing when Tupac died.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: That felt like a thing where the police were just like, eh,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: we're probably never gonna figure that out, right. I bet
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: in fifty years when all the files are declassified, we'll
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: find out the FBI was just on Tupac all the
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: time and knew this shit was about to happen.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Which it's crazy to think about it. He was only
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: like twenty five years old on twenty four to twenty five. Yeah,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: that's the fucking crazy part. And I feel like every
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: year there's at least a documentary on either VH one
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: or BT maybe every two years about like we know
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: who killed Tupac and the they never get an answer.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: No, there's been three attempts to make a movie out
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: of There's a book called Labyrinth, which is based on
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: this LAPD detective named Russell Poole, and he did kind
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: of an independent investigation into Notorious Big and Tupac both
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: and basically decided that the LAPD was the most complicit
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: in that killing. And they've tried three different times to
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: make a movie out of that book and it ends
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: up getting shut down every time Stallone tried to make one. Really,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Johnny Depp not only tried to make that movie, but
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: there were trailers in theaters for it, and then the
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: allegations about him abusing Amber Heard came out, and oh fuck,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: the movie got shelved. And then Leonardo DiCaprio was set
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: to Playpool in a movie and it got shut down again.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: So it's like that live action like a Kira of
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: like black conspiracy movies basically.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: So they also talk about just how badly the relationship
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: between Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam was deteriorating.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And I think they make a pretty strong case that
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: the idea that Elijah Muhammad wouldn't have ordered this really
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter because he said it.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: And it's also like again, like Malcolm X was like
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: blowing up his spot on every fucking front, right, Like
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: he was just like Nation Mzam's bullshit, that's not Islam.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Elijah Mohammad's got multiple baby mamas, and it's like it's
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: blowing up his spot insanely.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and even if Elijah Muhammad never said that Malcolm
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: X should be killed, his son said it. Elijah Muhammad
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Junior at a rally basically said Malcolm X's tongue should
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: be cut out and mailed to Elijah Muhammad. And I'm
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: no medical expert, but I feel like he would probably
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: die in that process. So that's that's close enough.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: They said that like Elijah Mhammad's son was like his mouthpiece,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: so like whatever he said was Elijah Muhammad would have
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: said it. And he's telling me that, like Elijah Mohammad's
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: son is just going to go out there and say
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: shit without getting like a co signed from Elijah Muhammad.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we already know what happens when a member of
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: the Nation of Islam at the time said something Elijah
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Muhammad didn't like, because it happened to Malcolm X. After
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: JFK died, he was publicly censured for saying what he said.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: So there was no censuring of Elijah Muhammad Junior when
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: he said Malcolm X should be killed. So I think
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: the idea that the Nation of Islam wouldn't have ordered
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: this is not true. No, take that history.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: And again, all they did was just interview nation of
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: his own members, and I want to say Elijah Muhammad's
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: daughter being like Elijah would never say that. It's like, dude,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: he did, Like.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah he did. She was like I was there, okay,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: you also like four, yeah, exactly. Everyone's kids look crazy young.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: One of Malcolm X's daughters is in this and she
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: looks like she's fucking twenty eight. Yeah.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: No, it goes with like black don't crack. Plus, this
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: really wasn't that long ago.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. It was. Uh, I think we're coming
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: right up on what year, was it sixty seven?
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Sixty seven, so like fifty three years yeah, wow, so
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: she was probably like she's probably like sixty and she
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: looks twenty eight.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, goddamn good jeans.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: So, with all of these rifts that are happening between
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam, the FBI is
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: on all of their phones and communications. They have top
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: level informants, which in the Nation of Islam there were
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: only like ten people at the top, and the FBI
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: was like, we got three at the top, which that
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: is thirty percent of the top leadership of the Nation
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: of Islam was FBI informants.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: It's fuckingsane.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Like watching this, I almost got the sense that the
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Nation of Islam was maybe started by the government to
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: like steer black people in this country away from actual
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Islam and more toward whatever the Nation of Islam is.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Like I can I totally see that and like somewhat
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: agree with that. Where if they weren't started by the government,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the government at least co signed on it to be
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: like it's sort of a benefit to like have black
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: people think that they can get power, but they really
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: aren't going to advance even within this group, right, so
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: it was like as radical as they seemed, they were
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: pretty safe for like what could actually demand change like
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: at the time.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that that really becomes the defining difference between
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: the Nation of Islam and Malcolm X. He wanted to
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: handle things one way and they wanted to handle things
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: another way. And the situations where they choose, where the
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Nation of Islam chooses to stand down and not say anything,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: like the jfk assassination, those shootings at the mosque in
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: La Like that just makes me feel like, who are
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: you really fucking working for here? Because those were things
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: that people should have been very angry about and you
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: would expect the Nation of Islam to say something about it,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and in all of those moments they kind of backed off,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: which I don't know, seems weird. So the FBI they
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: find out all of these rifts are happening, and it
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: seems like what they decide to do is just sort
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: of like see if they can inflame things a little bit.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And the one thing they do is they fire off
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: letters to Clara Muhammad, who was Elijah Muhammad's wife, telling
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: him her about all of the affairs he was having.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Didn't really work, did.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Not work, and she was just like, yeah, what is
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: he supposed to do? Like kind of cool with it,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Like it takes like he was fucking stunning to me.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that because that also is a
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: thing that eventually causes Malcolm X to leave. And I
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: think that also is makes me kind of suspect of
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: the organization as a whole, because they interview this guy
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: named John Ali a whole bunch and it's been suggested
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: or suspected that John Ali was actually a FBI agent
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: or an FBI informant, and they ask him about Elijah
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Muhammad's affairs and he's like, yeah, I don't care, Like
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: what's it matter to me? And it's like, well he's
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: teaching a thing and then he's doing a different thing,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: and like that doesn't bother you at all. And he's like, nah,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: it's like what it should bother you unless you're like
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: a government agent.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: It really should. And just the things people would sort
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: of blind eye to to, like for their leaders and
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: for their cause, like if it can benefit them, they
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: don't give up. Fuck.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: There is a really interesting moment in this documentary where
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: the FBI, as part of their efforts to kind of
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: divide the Nation of Islam further, they approach Malcolm X
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: and try to flip him as an informant, and he
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: records the entire conversation. They don't realize he's recording, and
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: at one point they they, you know, just kind of
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: outright say, you know, if you can give us information
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: about what's happening in the Nation of Islam, maybe we
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: can give you money or help or whatever kind of
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: help you need. And his quote was, there is no
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: government agency that can ever expect information from me.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Fuck.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is what I like to hear. Dude.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: It would have fucked up everything if he flipped and
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: joined the FBI because I feel we both suspect, like
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: the FBI and the Nation of Islam or like pretty
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: they're pretty friendly. So if they were like, yeah, we
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: got Malcolm Xic's informant, they would have just allured him
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: as an informant immediately.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. And during this time, he's trying to
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: like send letters to Elijah Muhammad to reconcile, and everyone
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: is like stopping those letters from getting through.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: It's like a notebook.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is exactly like the notebook. So they finally
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the thing that it seems like, finally splits them is
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Cassius Clay, where malcolm 's befriends Cassius Clay and Miami
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: and kind of brings him to the Nation of Islam.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: And then when he gets there, he's like, well, Elijah
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Muhammad gave me my new name. It's Muhammad Ali, which,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: as it turns out, that's a very special name. Yeah,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: in Islam, and Malcolm x is kind of exiled from
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: the group, even even Muhammad Ali turns on him.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I know. It's fucking sad.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: So that that's when they finally split, and even a
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: cop in this documentary realizes that that was a not
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: a great move on Elijah Muhammad's part, because Malcolm X,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: like even if he said some controversial shit from time
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: to time, he was great at recruiting people to this cause.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Like it's just it's just all so fucking
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: crazy and like pretty depressing, good honesty. Just just how
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: much like preventable shit there was and just like how again,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: how wide open this all is, Like this evidence was
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: readily available for the public, and it's just it's just
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: so fucking sad.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was as as we find out later,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the like all of this was readily available to the FBI,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: like they everyone knew this was gonna happen. That's the
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: saddest thing about this to me, it's it's not so
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: much I mean, it's obviously a huge bummer that Malcolm
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: X was assassinated, but it's like so many people knew
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: it was gonna happen and just kind of waited for
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: it to happen, and they were happy when it did.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Alcohom saying it for like the last month
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: was it like being like they've been trying to kill me,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: they're gonna kill.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Me, Yeah, and the police do some really cynical shit
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: in response to that. But before we get to that,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: they he splits with the Nation of Islam, and that's
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: when he starts touring the world and basically saying, look,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: I'll work with anyone to fix this problem. And that's
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: when I think he really gets on the US governments.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, he was already on the government's radar, but
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: he was on the State Department's radar once he started
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: doing that, because like an independently powerful Malcolm X is
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: dangerous to both of those. It's the Nation of Islam
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: and the US government. And I feel like those two
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: sides both had an understanding that someone was going to
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: kill him, and they were just like, well, whoever gets
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: there first, I guess. So one of the things they
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: talk about a lot in this documentary is the affidavit
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: that Talmich Hare filed where he names all of the conspirators,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: which he didn't do. It took him twelve years to
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: do that, and he basically waited for Elijah Muhammad to die,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Which cool that you finally did it, but also two
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: other people went to prison for twenty years over this shit. Yeah,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: but I also I don't know what he could have done,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Like he literally got on the stand and said, no,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: they were not there, they could not have been there.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Don't find them guilty, and they found him guilty.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: No, that's true. And again I get why he waited
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: till Elijah Maamad died because I mean it's a huge
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: nation of his lamed community in jail. So like, if
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: he fucking named the other people who's with like that,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: he probably would have died in jail quicker than he
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: actually did.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That, I mean that's where he That's where Malcolm
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: X found the Nation of Islam. So they yeah, that's
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: true that that probably was prison pressure, yeah, more than anything.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: But he does finally name him Benjamin Thomas, Leon Davis,
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: William X, Bradley, and Wilburt. I can't I can't tell
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: from the documentary if the fourth guy's name is Wilbur
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Kinley or Wilburt or Kinley.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: They're all like dead by that time, right, most of them, Yeah,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: like four to five of them, but one of them
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: was still alive and out having a fucking.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Blessed out there paling it up with Corey Booker and shit, right,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: all of all of the conspirators were from Newark, from
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: the Newark New Jersey mosque, which is it seems like
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: had been an open secret as it relates to the
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: killing of Malcolm X for decades. Absolutely, they interview all
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: of these people in Newark, like all of these Nations
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: of Islam leaders in Newark, and they're all like, yeah,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: we know, like we knew the killers came from New Jersey.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Dude. It was just like everybody's like, yeah, we're not
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: going to talk about that. Yeah. It was like, yeah,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: we know, what does she want to talk about? And
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: it's like, dude, that is why Abdul Rahman was there,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: was to talk about this, but like, yeah, come on,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: like now was not the day to talk about this
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: guy who killed Malcolm X.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They both Norman Butler and Thomas Johnson. They both
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: had really solid alibis, and even without those alibis, they
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: bring up the point that, you know, the reason we
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: were convicted of this is because we were very openly
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: aggressive and very open adversaries of Malcolm X. So it
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: makes sense that we would be convicted. But also because
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: they were such which open adversaries of Malcolm X, there's
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: no fucking way they would have been let in the
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Audubon ballroom that day. Yeah, and one of Malcolm X's
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: security detail at one point files an affidavit saying the
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: exact same thing, Like they knew these people very well,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: they knew how they felt about Malcolm X, and they
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: would not have let those two in the ballroom at all.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Of course, they got twenty years for not showing up.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they said, I mean that didn't keep them
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: out of prison. What's crazy is when they tried these
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: three men, they tried them as a group, which meant
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: any of the evidence they had against Talmageyer, which was
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: pretty considerable, yeah, also applied to the other two. So
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: there was really like there almost was no independent alibi
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: that you could have now.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Which is again is so fucked up. But again go
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to show how like the government just wanted this over
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: with as quickly as possible because they knew if this
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: case like dragged out, then more evidence would have come
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: out and like proven that they were in on it.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like the police knew all of this, Like
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: they knew so much about how the Nation of Islam
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: worked because they had so many informants within the group not.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Knowing that, but they did such a little police work
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: for this. Oh yeah, they were like we talked to
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: like ten people. Oh they said they saw these guys
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: and it's like and they left the fucking podium like there,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: they didn't take it or anything. And then that night
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: was still a ballet.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a dance later that night. They cleaned
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: up the ballroom. Who cares.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, it was such like fucking just misconduct and
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: just chilliness for what went down. Yeah.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: That One of the ironies of all this is they
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: talk so much about how Malcolm X's killers came from
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: the New Jersey Mosque. There's a high school in New
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Jersey called Malcolm Chabaz High School. Yeah, and it turns
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: out it's the high school that one of the killers
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: graduated from. Man. Fun fact, there's also a Malcolm Schabaz
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: High School in Madison, Wisconsin.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: That's pretty cool.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I used to live in Madison and Schabaz was the
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: high school you went to if you just couldn't get
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: along at any other high school.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: That's usually the case for like most black leader named schools.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine that. I thought this country was better than that.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's how the country knows and not
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: give them money to those schools.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh yeah, pretty much right to say no. I mean,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: it's like it's like the old Chris Rock joke, like
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: MLK Boulevard in any town is going to be the scariest,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: most violent street.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: That's fair.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: And it's yeah, I think that they do the same
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: thing with high schools. Man. So this affidavit that Talmadge
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Hayer filed it it lays out exactly how this happened.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Like he goes into detail about how they scoped out
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: the building the night before and they figured out what
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: exits they were gonna use, and they were able to
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: just they had no deterrent there was They were just
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: able to do it. Like if talmuch Hair hadn't got
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: shot in the leg, he would have probably got away too.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And it wasn't even like a fucking sophisticated polan
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Like this isn't like an Ocean's eleven type detail that
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: went into this. They were say, we're gonna cause it distraction.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: You guys run up there with your guns and then
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: shoot him. But like if there was like a modicum
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: of like police protection like patting people down, shit would
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: not have happened, right.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And talmuch Hair even says that he says if there
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: had been a police presence at the door, they probably
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have done this, no, and instead there were two
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: cops on the roof and no other police anywhere, so
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: they threw this These documents, they land on William X
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Bradley as the person who fired the shotgun, and according
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: to the coroner, the shotgun is what killed Malcolm X.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: So the documentary, at least in terms of the Nation
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: of Islam, half of things really focuses on William X
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Bradley and Abdua rock lind He he is a ballsy dude.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: He's like, I want to go find this guy and
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I want to talk to him.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And then when he drives by his house multiple times.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like stalking him a little bit.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: But I wish he would have talked to him because
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I I don't know far we can get now, we'll wait,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: we'll wait. But like, yeah, but it's just crazy. It's
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: just crazy how he was like still alive and chilling
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: for decades.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: And he finds out that William X Bradley has probably
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: changed his name to a Muslim name, and he's doing
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: all of this work to try and figure out what
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: that name is, and no one will talk to him,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: and then he just has some chance encounter with someone
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: where he's like, hey, do you know anything about the
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: guy who killed Malcolm X? And the person just goes,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, almost Stafa Shabaz, William Ex Bradley. He just
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: blurts his fucking name.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Out like an old friend other than that guy. That
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: guy's great, guy's great.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it runs a boxing gym.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Now yeah, what do you well, what about he killed
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Malcolm xIC Okay, like not even like hiding it, not
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: even like trying to protect him. He's like it's it's
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: so yeah, that guy's great.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: So Abduah rock Mound takes this name back to Newark
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: and starts throwing it around to those same people that
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: he had been talking to before, who were like, yeah,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: we know there's some like connection, but we don't talk
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: about it. We don't know anything. And he's like, well
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: what about this guy? And people get very nervous, yeah,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: like visibly nervous when he brings the name up. And
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: even there's like, I think it's the current mayor of
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Newark that he's interviewing, and even that guy's like leave
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: it alone, like we don't talk about it. And it's
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: like you are. You are the mayor. You're supposed to
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: talk about things like that.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Which just goes back to like your theory of him
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: working for the FBI and him being so protected on
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: such a high level.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like he was protected at every level.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Like imagine knowing the dude who killed Malcolm X is
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: just living in your community and you're like, I can't
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: arrest him. I can't, I can't do anything because you
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: probably couldn't. Like, No, the funniest detail about like this
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: documentary is worth watching for this moment alone, which is
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: when Al Mustafa Sabaz turns up in a Cory Booker
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: campaign video and Corey Booker is in this documentary. When
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: they first showed him, I was like, what the fuck
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: is Corey Booker doing here? Then I remembered he was
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: mayor of Newark for a long time. But then they're
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: interviewing Corey Booker and they're like, uh, you know Al
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Mustafa Schebaz And he's like, oh, yeah, Muslim brother lives
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: in uh lives in Newark, the fixture of the community.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: They're like, uh, thank you. They're like, uh, did you
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: know he maybe killed Malcolm X. Corey Booker's like no,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: and then they're like, did you know he's in one
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: of your campaign videos? And then they show him and
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: they keep interviewing Corey Booker, and every time they say
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: killed Malcolm X, he goes, please say allegedly, Please say allegedly.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Like imagine if Corey Booker was still in the presidential
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: campaign right now and that fucking came out right and
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: he had to know, like he had to know about
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: this guy.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Everybody knew. That's the thing, Like everyone knew, Like everybody
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Everybody's like, Yo, there's a guy who killed Malcolm X.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Again like a like a local celebrity, Like he was
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: definitely invited to like birthday parties and shipping Like you
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: got the guy who killed Malcolm X. I couldn't get
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: you that cover band I got the guy killed Malcolm X.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Is gonna stand in the corner and look shady as fuck.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: He's gonna do a tight fifteen up top. It gonna
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: be a lot of fun. Yeah, Like if the current
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: mayor of Newark knows about that guy, Corey Booker knew
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: about that guy. There's no fucking.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Way everybody knew about that guy. Like everybody fucking knew
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: about the dude. Every Islamic leader like, oh yeah, that's
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: the guy. He comes here all the time, and it's
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: just like nobody gave a fuck and just shows like
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: the hypocrisy of being like we love Malcolm X, yet
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: we're super cool with the guy that killed him.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like the general consensus just seems to be, well,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: he's a good dude. He got out of prison in
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, he rebuilt his life, he runs a
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: boxing gym. Now, he's like cutty from the wire.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: He's great. Imagine like being a kid being yeah, who's
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: tall you gotta fight? Well, the guy killed Malcolm X,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: so like you know you're not gonna fight that. You're
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: not gonna fight that guy.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Definitely not. And speaking of conspiracies, since where this first
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: half we're just talking about the Nation of Islam part
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: of this documentary. Yeah, how about what happens to al
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Mustafa Schabez? He dies before abdua rock band can interview him.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: He dies, and look, I get that.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: He's old, but that's crazy timing.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting timing that the last living person who
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: probably could have shed some light on what happened, what
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: really happened to Malcolm X just conveniently dies right before
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: this documentary gets to interview him.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: That's fucking insane. And then like he fucking shows up
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: to the dude's funeral and people are like, oh, yeah,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: it's a guy. He kill Malcolm X, but we got
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: a bear him right now.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fucking Lieutenant governor is there, so then
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: he interviews her about the guy and she's just like,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't ask too many questions, man, I
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: It's fucking crazy.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: So it's pretty apparent from this documentary that, by the
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: most technical terms, the Nation of Islam killed Malcolm X,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: and it was almost certainly four or five people from
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: the Newark Mosque, even though history has said all of
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: the killers came from the Harlem Mosque. It seems like
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: those two were railroaded and yeah, did not have anything
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: to do with it. So that's one half of the conspiracy.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Then there's the police response and law enforcement's role in
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: all this, which I still think comes down to like that,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: you know, like the Good Samaritan law where if you
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: see someone in trouble, you're supposed to get out and help. Yeah,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: like there should have been some good Samaritan laws going
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: on here, because the entire US government knew Malcolm X
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: was gonna die, and they were just like, let's.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Hope, yeah, just watching in like a w and be like,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, fuck it. Like again, no cops. They were
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: all hanging all two of them were hanging out on
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: a roof across the street, right.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: And they mentioned in this documentary that normally events like this,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: or events at the Audubon Ballroom, which was in Harlem,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: by the way, normally lots of police show up. And like,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: I guess that's just hearsay, but I bet there was
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: a pretty strong police presence around any group of a
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: lot of people in Harlem in the sixties.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, or even think about it, like now, right, say
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: you remember one of your teenager you hada cops and
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: busting in a party, right, there was at least six cops.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Or if you've ever been to like go to a
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: rock show at a small club and then go to
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: a wrap show at that same club and just spake
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: note of how many cops you see?
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I know, whenever I get pulled over, it's at least
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: six cops, all right, Like yeah, they only had two
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: own like the closest ship furthest possible way place, Like
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: they were on a roof across the street, so if
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: shit did go down, they have to run down like
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: eight flights of steps and then get there.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: And as we know now some shit did go down
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: and they didn't get there in time. No, And they
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: talk about how just in general when the police showed
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: up there was no sense of urgency. It was like
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: they were arriving to a thing they knew was gonna
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: happen and they were just there to check it out.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Now, they didn't close off any of the air like
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: it was. It was just like gross by how like blatant.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: It was that they did not give a fuck.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And as you mentioned earlier, they cleaned up the
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: crime scene immediately after so they could hold another event
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: at seven o'clock that night. And they they interview this
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: district attorney in it in the documentary and he's like,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I didn't see anything there that would have swayed my decision,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: And it's like, you are the district attorney, You're not
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: a fucking forensic investigator.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was fucking gross.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: So there was that they cleaned up the ballroom tal
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: much hair, they cut to an interview with him where
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, if they were just police at the door,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: we probably wouldn't have done it. And we sort of
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: mentioned this earlier. But in nineteen eighty three, this TV
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: show called Like It Is with Gil Noble, they do
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: an episode on the assassination of Malcolm X and they
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: go back to the Audubon Ballroom, which had been shut
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: down for years by then, and in the fucking basement
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: they find the podium Malcolm X was talking at just
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: riddled with bullet holes. Yeah, it's like, how is that
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: not in police evidence somewhere? Like did they investigate this
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: at all?
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Or even like a museum?
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Is the unit bomber's cabin in a museum?
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah? Yeah. My second thought after why don't the
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: police have this is you should take that the Pond Stars,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: see what you can get for that.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: But then Pond Stars would have brought in like Abdu
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Rahman because he's the premier Malcolm X expert, and he
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: would have graded its value exactly. So this is just
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: cut out the middle man of Pond Stars.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he would have probably bought it.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: He could, just it's probably in his house. It should
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: at least be in this guy's house.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: So the fact that that podium is there speaks directly
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: to what kind of investigative work went into the death
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: of Malcolm X. And they talk about the fire bombing
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: that happened, and in the days after that fire bombing happened,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: it turned out the NYPD was like feeding information to
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: reporters off the record, basically saying, yeah, we think maybe
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: he did this himself, which is absurd. Yeah, like Malcolm
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: X was rendered homeless by that fire bombing, and he
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: had several kids that he seemed to care a whole
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: lot about. There's no fucking way he would have firebombed
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: his own house. And what they were doing was kind
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: of putting it out there that, oh, he doesn't really
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: need to be protected. He's just sort of making all
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: this up.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Throughout this documentary, it's the backstory of Malcolm X. Like
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: really good dude. Oh yeah, like you said some controversial things,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: but it was always like a family man and like
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: really cared deeply about his family.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he cared deeply about his family, and he cared
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: deeply about his people. And like this was at a
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: time when like things still aren't great for black people
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: in this country, especially as it pertains to treatment from
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: the police, but it was really off the chain back then. Yeah,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: and there needed to be a Malcolm X. Like Malcolm
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: X was mandatory, like there needed to be that kind
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: of presence for black people in the country at the time,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: and I think the government knew that, and I think
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: they fucking let him die over Yeah.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: No, absolutely, at least gave it. Definitely gave it to
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: green light, like fucking do this shit for us, please.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the saddest moments in this documentary, they're
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: interviewing this cop named Tony Booza, who seems like he
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: sort of regrets what happened back then, but you know,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: fuck you still. One of the things he says is
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: that the NYPD was surveilling Malcolm X so heavily that
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: they knew he needed to be protected from the Nation
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: of Islam, And he was like, but we couldn't afford it.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: We had it would have been all this overtime and
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: we couldn't afford it. So what they did is this
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: is some really cynical shit. They approached Malcolm X and
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: were like, hey, do you want protection from us, knowing
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: he would say no, And once he said no, they
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: got him to sign a thing saying he refused protection.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: They were like, all right, good luck, which that's not
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: how it's supposed to work. No, like the police are
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: just supposed to protect you. I mean we know they don't,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: but no.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: But it was just, man, it's just it's all just
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: so fucked up and just how everybody's openly admitting it.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. What really blows my mind about that overtime claim is, well,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: you were running a whole separate division of the NYPD
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: called the Red Squad, which was just tailing Malcolm X
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: everywhere he went and taking pictures and documenting his movements.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: And it's like, maybe, if you weren't spying on him,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: you could have transferred those resources into protecting him.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Perhaps it's a little bit Yeah.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm no budget expert, but seems like that
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: might have worked. And yeah, they did. They had this squad,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: this division of the NYPD that was basically like a
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: little FBI called the Red Squad. And there's a really
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: great scene where this reporter is yelling at someone on
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: the roof of a building near one of Malcolm X's events,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: and he goes, who are you with the police, And
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: then he just starts yelling red squad. Yeah, and and
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: the guy just the cop just like smiles a little
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: and does the shush thing with his finger. It's like
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: it was. One of the things they mentioned a couple
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: times in this documentary is, yes, Malcolm X knew he
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: was being watched by the FBI and monitored, but he
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: thought it was happening in a really open and obvious
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: way like stuff like that. When it turns out it
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: was so much deeper than that.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's only just so crazy about how they were
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: able to get so close so easily.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they we We sort of mentioned this earlier, like, well,
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: we should mention the there's a Hoover a j Edgar
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Hoover quote which I think has become pretty famous in
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: relationship into Malcolm X, and it's from an FBI document
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: where he literally says, we need to do something about
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: all this black violence, do something about Malcolm X. And
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: then it also said in another document that he wanted
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: to prevent the rise of a black messiah. So the
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: FBI was really intent on stopping Malcolm X, and what
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: they did they didn't have there there were no black
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: FBI agents at the time, which shocker. Yeah, kind of,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: but it seems like just for sarcastic it makes most
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: of my sense. Yeah, like for business reasons if nothing else,
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Like it would make your job a lot easier to
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: just have black FBI agents, but they didn't, so they
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: went in. They would just approach people on the street
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: and round them up as informants and have them infiltrate
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: the Nation of Islam. And one of the people that
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: they did this with, a guy named Jean Roberts, ends
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: up rising all the way to the point of being
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: Malcolm X's head of security. There's a picture from the
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: assassination where you see this guy really prominently. His name's
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Gene Roberts. In that picture, he looks like fucking Morris
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Day in Purple Rain. Yeah, he looks great. And he was,
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: as it turns out, put in place by the NYPD
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: and was part of this group that worked with the
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: FBI called the Bureau of Special Services. And one of
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: the craziest moments is when he talks about being there
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: and seeing all of this, and the shooting happens, and
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: he ends up giving Malcolm X mouth to mouth to
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: try and save his life and then gets back to
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: his office and his superiors are like, hey, why'd you
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: try and save that guy. He's a bad guy. You're
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: supposed to let him die. And he's like, I don't know.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a cop. I thought my job is to save
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: me people. And it's like, that's what when that cop
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: they interview says, Malcolm X didn't realize how closely we
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: were watching him, like his number two, the person he
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: would probably trust most to protect him. Ye was working
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: for the fucking FBI.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: But also again he was working for the FBI, but
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: still again tried to protect him.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He is also one of the people who helped
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: slow Talmach hair down. He hit him with a chair.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Which is fucking crazy, like f type shit.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: And they interview this FBI agent named Arthur Fulton in
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: the documentary. He says they had nine informants in the
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: audience at the Audubon Ballroom that day, and it seems
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: like the FBI just kind of always knew exactly what
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: happened to Malcolm X, and they were just willing to
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: let two other people go to prison for it because
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: their files, they they have a picture of the man
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: who shot Malcolm X. They have a description of the
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: man who shot Malcolm X. Like we mentioned he's in
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: the video.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: He's in the video putting the gun in his jacket
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: and didn't walking away cool, like just the most confident strut.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Like everyone walking away from a crime the way that
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: guy was walking away did it?
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like did it and knew he wasn't gonna get caught.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like who wouldn't stay and check that out? Like
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: if they're beating the guy who just shot Malcolm X,
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: and you're like, what, I gotta beat traffic, I'm I'm
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: trying to catch a train, Like, no, you're gonna fucking
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: hang out.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: He walked off like it was like Ken Griffy when
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: he hits the Homer back in the nineties. He just
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: with a backflip and just fucking strutted flip his shotgun. Yeah,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: and Talmachayer is getting just shit kicked out of him
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: and he just stayed in his face like hair, his
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: body is not on the ground, but he's floating like
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: three ft in the air just from fists and feet. Yeah,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: it's crazy.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: And yet they find these FBI files more FBI files
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: that have a picture of the guy who fired the shotgun.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: They name him as the shooter and then on a
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: few different occasions in those files, they're like, by the way,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: don't tell the NYPD, which there really can only be
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: one reason why the FBI would not want the NYPD
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: to know the name of the actual killer, and that's
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: if the FBI is protecting him for some reason. Absolutely,
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: and why would they be protecting him. Maybe he was
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: an FBI agent, or maybe he was an informant, or
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: maybe they just got to him and sent an informant
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: in and put it in this guy's ear that he
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: should probably kill Malcolm X. And he did it, and
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: the FBI got away with it.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: They got away with it. Na should VISI got away
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: with that. The only people who didn't. One person really
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: didn't get away with it, and deservedly so is Hair.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: But that's because again, he was dumb enough to get caught.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was too slow.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: He was too slow. Also, like everybody's aim was fucking
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: awful except for the shotgun guy.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they talk about how he fired from the hip,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: which is only a thing experts do when they're shooting
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: a shotgun, Like you have to really know how to shoot,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: to shoot the way that that guy was shooting.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: There's only like what like there's like forty or fifty
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: bullets that hit the walls in podium, but only the
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: shotgun blast is what got them. Yeah, like fucking stormtroopers.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: And it ends up being convenient for the purposes of
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: this documentary because Bradley was the only person still alive,
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: like the other conspirators had all been rumored to have died,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: and it's so frustrating that this ends with him just
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: missing his chance to confront William Bradley.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: And it's just I honestly feel like the nation and
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: the FBI like went hand in hand with this and
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: then like control of the cops. I feel everybody was
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: in on this to get them. Like it's just honestly,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I feel like it just there's no other way.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean I feel the same way about JFK.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: Like there's you see the same thing with the JFK
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: assassination where it's like where were the police there were
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: like there there should have been police everywhere and they
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: there weren't, And it's like that can only lead a
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: person to think a law enforcement knew that something was
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: going to happen and that they shouldn't be there.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: I Mean, the more you talk about JFK and this
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: whole era of killings that seems to be how the
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: government assassinates people, like their textbook brand or like you
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like that's just the play they
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: go with, Like that's their fucking that's their slants play,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: Like that's just the go to on how to kill
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: people is get the dividing groups involved in it and
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: then just have them do it while they facilitate everything else.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's pretty obvious that's what happened
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: with Malcolm X and that like that's that's best case scenario,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: because worst case scenario is just that the FBI in
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: the Nation of Islam worked together to make this.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Happen, Yeah, which they probably did.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like there had to be some level
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: of collaboration on their part.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: But it's and it's again, it's crazy how all this
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: evidence was just out there and like no one gave
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: a fuck.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's still out there. Like if nothing else,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: they could maybe clear Norman Butler's name, like he's still
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: alive and out and living as one of the killers
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: of Malcolm.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: X, which I think they're gonna think they're going to
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: do it. They reopened the case recently, right, So they're
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: definitely gonna at least try to clear that guy's name
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: because that really fucked up his life. Like, I know
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: he was against Malcolm X and went through like a
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: revolutionary based in the sixties or whatever. But dude served
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: twenty years, lost his family, like still a Muslim by
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: the way, which is kind of fucking impressive.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it looks like it's working out for him.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Holy shit, dude looks fucking great. It's crazy, Yeah, it is.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: It's just such a it's a disappointing ending to the documentary.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: It reminds me of there's a documentary called I think
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: it's just called Edward Wayne Edwards. But this guy, Edward
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: Wayne Edwards, killed a lot of people and one of
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: his kids is convinced that he is the Zodiac Killer,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: and he actually makes a really strong case that his
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: dad was the Zodiac Killer. And at the end of
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: the documentary they have Edward Wayne Edwards DNA and we
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: know the San Francisco PD has the Zodiac Killers DNA,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: and it ends with them trying desperately to get San
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Francisco PD to just compare these two DNA samples to
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: see if they're right, and it never fucking happens. And
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's because they know they let the Zodiac
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: Killer get away and that he killed more people. I
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: think the Zodiac Killer and the Atlanta child murderer were
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: the same person.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The watch that Edward Wayne Edwards documentary. I think
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: it's on Investigation Discovery.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: What a snitch of a kid? What a fucking snitch
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: of a kid?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah? No shit, Yeah right, whow your dad. That's how
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Edward Wayne Edwards finally got arrested. His daughter turned him
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: in for a crime, which is like she just like
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: started thinking about how weird her dad was and started
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: googling cold cases from where they used to live, like
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: all the places they lived, and she found one and
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: was like, I bet my dad did that, And sure
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: enough he did. But the documentary ends with us still
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: not knowing if he's the Zodiac Killer.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: I just wish they didn't spend a whole episode on him,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: like driving by the dude's house.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the last episode seemed kind of pointless.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Like he was just like, go fucking talk to the guy.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he was probably a little nervous, like
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: someone getting that much protection for a crime. That big Like, uh,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: that's why I still like when he dies in the documentary,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, who did it? Yeah, because it
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: could have been the Nation of Islam could have killed
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: him too.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Did they ever say how he just died in his sleep?
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: Right? Yeah? They just say he died. They don't say
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: how it happened.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, someone definitely fucking killed that guy.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was like that was my first thought.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Like whenever, Like, there's that Kurt Cobaine documentary from like
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: ten or fifteen years ago where this guy named El
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: Duce is like, yeah, Courtney Love offered me twenty five
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars to kill Kurt Cobain and then that guy
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: got hit by a train three days later. What Yeah? So,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: like it's weird, how like not just how many weird
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: murders and assassinations are out there, but then all these
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: documentaries where oh what a coincidence. It's that in three
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: of these high profile documentaries, someone dies before anyone can
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: find anything out or the authorities won't do anything to
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: investigate it. It's like cover up.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: No, but it really like it really fucking is everybody
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: knew he did it?
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody fucking knew he did it.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's in Corey Booker's twenty ten reelection campaign
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: video if you want to go see him for yourself.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: People should definitely watch this documentary, especially with everyone being
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: shut in.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got six we all have six hours to
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: kill Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: I mean the episodes are only like forty five minutes each,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: so it's not even six hours. If you got time
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: to watch Tiger Man, you got time to find out
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: who killed Malcolm X for real.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: That's why it was funny. When you hit me up
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: like are you free to do this? I'm like, I
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: got I want house arrest. See I could do this.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, We're all free to do whatever we want.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: Except yeah, Eve, that's true, and even then it's fucking sad.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: And again, if you order Postmates or New Takeout, please
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: tip those people, like for the Little Beast Bingji fuck
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: at least give them a like a solid tip man.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I ordered weed the other day and I tipped
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: nine dollars just because it's like, it's it's impressive that
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: you're still out doing that.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look I got takeout, yesh. I gave a good
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: like twenty spot for the tip. Yeah, And I was like,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: thank you. Thank you for fucking doing this.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you for your service. That's what we're gonna be
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: saying that to fucking hospital and food workers when this
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: is all over.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just hope it's like brings people together, even
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: though it probably isn't right. We're fucked, We're kind of fucked.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: Oh we're super fucked. Did you see Trump wants to
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: suspend habeas corpus and be able to detain people indefinitely
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: without charging them during all of this or in times
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: of civil disobedience. Yeah, they're trying to ram that through
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: while we're all panicked and indoors.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Jesus, Yep.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: It's pretty fucking intense, and uh, it seems like we're
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: we're wandering off course. But I think this all fucking
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: relates to the assassination of Malcolm X, Like just stop
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: having so much faith in this country, Like, except that
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: this country is fucking bad and needs to be fixed
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: and we'll all get along a lot better, hope.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: So, like, this country will put its own self interests
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: before the people's, So like, if they want to keep
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: something that's like status quo, are they they will fuck
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: whomever they have to to get it done.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the assassination of Malcolm X is a great
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: example of that. Like there there would have been a
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: revolution in this country if he was allowed to live
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: and carry out the work he was doing. Yeah, government's
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: not going to stand for that.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: Also again throught his document. I feel kind of bad
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: for Abdurahan because like he gave up like his whole
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: life for this. Yeah, and then he even had like
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: the most disappointing ending. He's like, fuck, like I lost
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: my family to this. I finally figured it out and
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: like fuck, no one really cares.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing happens, Like that's that's what happened with the
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: JFK guy. He did like all these years of research
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: and then released a book in the seventies and was like,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: here we go, the world's gonna know the truth, and
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: the world didn't give a shit. Man depressing.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: It's so fucking sad.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Anyway, I hope we cheered everyone at home up a
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: little bit. A little lighthearted episode about extra judicial killing
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: by the US government.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Got I'm so sad, it's gonna go sit. I'll be
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: stay here and be sad now, thank you. I can't
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: even do anything.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not literally nothing we can do. We just
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: have to. Uh, we'll turn our recorders off and then
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: go back to the couches and be sad. Yeah, what
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: a time to be alive, man. So that's our episode.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Watch the documentary Who Killed Malcolm X for a lot
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: more detail. This podcast is going to be like an
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: hour long. That documentary is way longer.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: It's fucking six.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: And uh, I think it does a really good job
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: of laying out what actually happened to Malcolm X and
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: who was responsible for even if they never get to
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: talk to the guy. And uh, I think it's like
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I like to end these things by by saying if
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: I believe this conspiracy or not, and this one very much.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: This the Yeah, I feel like there's more of a
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: conspiracy that we're not even hearing about. But just whatever
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: is presented in this documentary is at at the very
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: least that's all true.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like what could be the opposing argument?
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like this is what we did in the sixties
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: as a country, Like we killed progressives and we found
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: really sneaky ways to do it. And uh, this is
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: another example. So that's our episode. Uh, do we have
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: anything to plug before we get out of here?
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: I just follow my social media I don't know. Instagram,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Man, I'm fucking sad.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wash your hands, keep an eye on the government.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Keep it on the government. Tip your fucking delivery people.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Stop hoarding toilet paper, leave some for everyone else.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: All that shit. Uh and yeah. Patreon dot com slash
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: on pops you can get bonus episodes of Conspiracy Show
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: and help keep this network afloat when you subscribe. And
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: I think that's all I got, So let's get out
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: of here. A TIFFs say goodbye, goodbye everybody, We love you.