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Steven Kelsey | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #89 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  It's another episode of the Christian we've podcast.
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  But are you subscribed? If not make sure to like, share
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  and subscribe, spread the word about the Christian Reef podcast
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  and enjoy this episode. Hello and welcome to another
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  episode of the Christian brief podcast.
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  Today's guest is a podcaster, a nerdcore rapper of retro gamer,
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  all the way from Seattle Washington in the United States
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  is name is Steven Kelsey Welcome to the show Steven.
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  How are you doing? Well, thank you for having me.
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  Are you awake? Are you awake your foam awake?
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  I'm awake. I forgot about that alarm.
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  This is the level of professional.
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  I'm really glad that I can, we can really have a moment that
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  like locks in How professional items and this this will set the
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  tone for the rest of the Pod. Yeah I hope I hope they weren't
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  worried. They weren't thinking it's like
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  oh what's this? This nerdcore musician?
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  This serious and it's like yes, but also no complete mess of a
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  human being. How are you doing?
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  I'm good, man, I'm good. I'm good.
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  It's funny. Actually, I'll just talk about
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  that real quick. So I never actually planned to
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  have a particular demeanor for this show.
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  It's just an addict. Philip Dover time.
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  I guess that my overall goal with this is to always get my
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  guests talking and you know try and find out the person behind
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  whatever they do because it's all well and good asking you 15,
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  20 30 questions about your life but you know you really want to
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  get that discussion going, don't you want to get something out of
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  it, you know, the juice the, the good stuff and yeah, like I've
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  noticed over the course of my podcast your various different
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  guests. I do take on a slightly
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  different demeanor depending on the Russians obviously
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  naturally, you know, but I don't know.
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  I take some pride in the fact that I think I'm able to pop and
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  make all of my guests feel comfortable and laughs That's My
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  overall goal is, can I marry us to feel comfortable and we can
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  get a good conversation out of them?
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  This is interesting how that happens.
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  Yeah, it is it is in interviews and such that I've done it's
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  much more comfortable for me to almost just sort of like turn on
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  the the the recording like as the conversation begins.
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  I've let people know. It's like, okay, I'm going to
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  start recording now, but we'll get into the episode then we'll
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  just have our conversation. And then a lot of times, I'll
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  get there's been a couple times where talking with someone I've
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  been like like oh I need to do the show intro, we've been
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  talking for an hour, I'm going to cut that to the front of this
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  and then we'll just use this conversation that's good with
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  you and they're like, oh oh my goodness.
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  You know, making sure that them to anything to did I say?
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  As I said anything. Yeah, yeah.
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  We need to alert my legal team like rap music.
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  But yeah, I think that that's a lot better and I think that's
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  yeah, you know, that's that's the good joys of like podcast
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  and vod's and YouTube and twitch is that it's much more personal.
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  It's much more all most vulnerable, I think a little
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  bit, then say, if you were going on a radio show or you were
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  going on, you know, television Media or doing an interview for
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  a periodic, Oil, you would definitely have your talking
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  points. There's, there's a structure
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  there versus this and especially post like in pandemic world this
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  where it's just like no I'm just good.
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  Talking with someone for like a little bit.
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  Just just let me communicate and connect with a human at all
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  today and that's that's really helped that out.
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  Yeah for sure. And you know I've spoken about
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  this on the show before it's a regular listeners will know
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  where I'm going with this. But when it comes to sort of
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  authenticity as it pertains To you know, chat shows or even
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  podcast. Sometimes it's interesting.
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  One of the things I've always said about doing with my podcast
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  and my content in general. If you see me in a live stream
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  or you see me doing a video that's the real me, that's how I
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  am in real life. It's just that, you know, I'm a
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  bit more introverted. You know, I won't be this or
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  person to start conversations. I'm quite quiet in real life.
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  If I know you if I you know, feel comfortable with you, I'll
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  be the Life in the soul of the party.
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  But that's, you know, I just like to observe and listen and
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  life more than talk, you know, I save all the Talking for this,
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  you know, makes more sense. Yeah.
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  But with that being said, I mean, one thing I've always been
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  intrigued by especially with YouTube, and yet podcasts to is
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  this idea that when the camera is off your one person.
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  And when it's on your another person, and I suppose, every
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  content creator, when they first start out, they probably have
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  that sort of decision conscious or not, whether or not to put
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  Like a Persona, like am I going to play a character so to speak?
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  And I guess like my first question to you just a foot of
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  my hair's? This random is have you ever had
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  like situation where you've been appearing on someone's show?
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  And you know, they basically are completely different off camera
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  and then they put on a Persona on camera.
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  I have you experienced that before.
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  Yes, I have I have kind of a unique application to this
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  because on top, Top of like the YouTube and the podcasting and
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  stuff. I've also been like a stage
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  musician for, you know, I'm old now.
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  So, over two decades and so, I kind of quickly learned that
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  there was a lot of code switching, going on at varying
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  degrees, depending on the person, you were talking to.
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  I find that in the, in the podcast space, or in the spaces
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  that I entertain myself. And I'm attracted to most,
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  there's the least amount of mask.
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  From most people, I have met some people, especially in the
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  event, organizing sort of convention side of things where
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  I've played at like different like comic book and video game.
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  And and and those kinds of conventions, there are people
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  that absolutely are one person when they're on stage or when
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  they're professionally talking to artists.
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  And then the Moment, you get them out of that step they are
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  completely different person. It's not like a judgement on
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  character. Like it's I'm not saying, oh,
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  they're all monsters underneath. It's just very obvious that they
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  put on. I'm a professional at work, and
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  this is how I must comport myself versus this, is me having
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  a real human to human conversation with someone.
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  And I think that in YouTube and podcasts and twitch The finer or
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  the smaller distance, you can have from a person who you are
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  as a human versus who you are. As the person interviewing
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  people are talking with people or playing with people, the less
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  distance you can have possible the better.
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  I think that there's an expectation from a YouTube
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  audience that you're having it. So yeah I've had some times I've
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  never had a terrible bad. Science, but that's because I'm
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  a very pushy outgoing person. So, I kind of register the kinds
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  of people that won't work very early on.
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  And I just don't, I just don't work with them.
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  I spent a lot of time both in education and then doing this
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  sort of, you know, like social function of being these Niche,
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  sort of Music performance groups and stuff like that.
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  That I have a pretty good quick read on somebody.
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  And if I don't get like a It's sense of.
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  Oh, this person seems furnace, this person seems genuine, then
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  I just I it just becomes a. Yeah, sure, you know, will
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  appear some time and then I just sort of quietly ghost them on
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  the Internet. No judgment or anything but most
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  people I can pretty much pick up.
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  It's like okay, you get a little bit more professional but
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  otherwise your yourself versus you are a character of a human
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  being for an audience. And then after that That you're
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  just nothing like it. One of the people I actually do
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  a lot of content with is a little bit like that but it's
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  more like I think like yourself where when the mic isn't in
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  front of him he is just very quiet.
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  He is not the person to open the conversation.
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  He's a very like man of few words and the moment of Mike's
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  on it's like a radio host has suddenly appeared in front of
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  you and he's just eloquent And considered and that's impressive
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  but it's part of him. He's just not coming.
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  He just doesn't feel the urge to use it in day-to-day versus
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  versus when he's being performative.
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  This is exactly how I am. No audience will know this as
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  well as I've spoken about it before, I always refer to myself
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  as an omni. I was gonna say, open the floor
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  for a second. I'll never, and it's by choice
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  as well. Like, what, and what I mean by
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  that, is that That I, you know, I can perfectly happily talk
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  like this and you'll see me in real life.
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  I will do that when I want to it's just that and I don't know
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  if it's because of being an empath or being, I don't know.
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  Having that trait that introverts have where I get kind
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  of quite like, my energy is depleted after talking to like
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  lots of people or specific types of people.
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  But to be honest with you, it only really is like that when
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  it's like a negative person, or someone is very Cool, you know,
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  if it's someone I love being around my energy, doesn't go
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  anywhere, but the point I'm trying to make is that I'm very
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  selective about who I spend that time with expending energy.
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  Let people forget that talking is very tiring, you know what I
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  mean? Some people can do it for hours
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  and hours and hours and hours, right?
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  But like, I don't know, I feel like if you're doing it
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  properly, you're actually speaking and, you know, having a
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  deep conversation, not just like, talking about the weather
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  and And just the traffic or whatever, like you as you happen
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  to a proper conversations it can be quite tiring.
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  And also I don't know over the course of the last couple of
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  years, I've kind of realized like it's it's much better in
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  life than listen more than to talk all the time because you
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  obviously learn more and you get a lot more out of life.
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  I think. Yeah, you do.
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  And yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
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  I guess it makes you more interesting because it's like
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  you're bit mysterious. You're not like constantly
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  talking all the time. You know, there's maybe a bit
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  more You you, you know. Yeah.
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  But um, yeah it's interesting like but just taking it back to
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  the authenticity thing. I mean I find that kind of
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  bizarre. And what I mean is that I don't
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  understand how it isn't tiring for those people to do that to
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  put on that Persona because one of the things I did from the
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  get-go was I decided I'm not going to do that because back in
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  2013 2014 when I first started my channel, my YouTube channel I
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  you know did I copy what everyone else is doing?
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  I didn't have any original ideas, I had no confidence I was
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  like, oh just do what everyone else is doing and you know, I
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  made a couple of videos Could get some views, but it wasn't me
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  and I hated it. And I also thought even back
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  then, that this is a bad idea because you have to be this
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  person all the time and it's like that's tiring.
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  And I thought, well, I don't want to be like for someone I'm
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  not, I want to be liked for who I am, you know what I mean?
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  And I feel like it's it would be much more interesting if people
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  meet me in real life, like that's still the same person.
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  And you know, when what you were talking about with regards to,
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  you know, professionally ISM, and showing certain sides of
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  yourself. I feel like what I do is I
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  don't, I don't hide a lot, but I guess I do hide the very best
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  for, like personal friends, personal company and stuff.
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  But like what you see on camera is just is professional
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  projection, but this is how I, you know, present myself to
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  generally I would say, you know what I mean, maybe I'm not like
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  mr. Presenter 24/7.
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  But like ultimately, it's mostly like that.
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  For the most part. Yeah, I think I think there's
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  there's a very clear line between doing a character or
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  being a Persona and then sort of like the sort of code that
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  everyone sort of develops with to professionally presenting
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  themselves to be like friendly and approachable person, right?
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  But like, also not necessarily in a comfortable social space.
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  So this would be like your work, you're at the supermarket, you
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  know, your You're anywhere anywhere that you're going to be
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  or maybe you're even going to a social event like a dinner, or
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  like, like a party or something like that or to go over to
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  someone's house and like, you know, one friend, you have that
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  one friend that invited you and you're just meeting a bunch of
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  people and, you know, it's probably going to be fine but
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  it's that sort of thing. Its first date energy that kind
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  of thing where you don't want to go too far from who you are but
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  you, you got to be friendly and I do actually know I've done a
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  lot of research. To YouTube and podcast and like
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  creativity. And I understand the marketing
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  instincts of putting on a character, especially while I'm
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  Twitch streaming, it's an absolute.
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  It's, I'm trying to use a non-problematic word.
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  It's an absolutely Bonkers scenario on Twitch.
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  How people act to get views or to get people excited as sort of
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  like a Native structure versus me assuming an admittedly.
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  I am assuming that most of these people are not this turn to 11.
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  Well, they're gaming when a camera is it on them?
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  Yeah. When they became a sitting there
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  they're not like yelling and screaming.
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  They're not like over exaggerating so many of the
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  emotions which is kind of the twitch modus operandi for gaming
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  is to sort of turn yourself into the most intense almost like
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  18-year old version of yourself like Teenage fully invested in
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  the game to caffeinated to sugared up version of a person.
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  Yeah, I was gonna say is well, they like well you said like oh
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  maybe we don't get too emotional playing games.
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  I mean, dude, come on, everyone's from their controller
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  across the room. Oh yeah, late once or twice for
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  all of us or a handful of times for all of us.
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  So you just Rage. Quit stood up and you're like I
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  need a walk, I'm done. But They're do, you know they're
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  streamers that are doing at five six days a week for anywhere
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  between two and six hours a day and they're keeping that energy
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  the whole time. Well, they're playing, you know,
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  fall guys or well, they're playing Among Us or some such
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  Among Us is a little different because it's a social game and
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  you're lying to each other. So you can really get invested
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  in that. But like, like, you know, if
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  this is an unranked Call of Duty online match, are you really
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  that invested Are you energized to a degree about people
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  watching you and interacting you but also really pushing as much
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  of yourself forward as possible to the point where you're kind
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  of unnaturally doing it? And I think that's that's
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  extremely common on Twitch. I don't think it's a bad thing
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  because it is there to be entertained.
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  You're there to perform for people to a degree.
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  But I understand how that also applies to YouTube.
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  It was real bad in like the first few years of YouTube of
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  people coming on and be like, you know, the standard.
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  Like, what's up? Welcome to my channel.
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  Make sure to click that like button and subscribe.
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  Hit the notification Bell and we're just gonna jump into it
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  like that kind of energy. People still do that.
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  Yeah. Is it necessary for everything
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  on YouTube? Some people might be that kind,
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  but I think a lot of people that put it on, put it on because
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  that's what the Zeitgeist us. That's what the market does.
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  You go to look at what your audience does, though?
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  You don't like who you already? Like, when I see certain
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  YouTubers that like like for kids I'm like that's fine.
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  You did that. That's what kids are reacting.
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  That makes sense. But when they were audiences
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  like people our age or a little bit younger, I'm thinking, why
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  are you going? Hello guys.
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  Welcome to this video and this is what we're doing in this
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  video today is going to be absolutely awesome when we're
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  going to make sure you like, share and subscribe, and it's
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  gonna be fantastic. And it's like, what?
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  Breathe, breathe calm down, ammo down?
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  Yeah, I mean, I've gotten into I mean, for years I've been into
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  this For last few years, I'm way into the video.
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  Essayist, YouTube's give me 40 minutes on something where it's
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  person and my classic go to is just like you don't have to be
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  that you can be Sean on YouTube where there's not even a video
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  camera. Its most or like three arrows or
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  any of those channels where it's like 40 minutes of someone
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  speaking very calmly and there and I'm like there's that
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  there's their own relaxation vibe to that they have Viewers
• 17:41
  Jim. I don't know why this used to
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  like me but you remember leafy. Yeah, commended for some reason,
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  the only thing that used to bother me is that his voice
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  would be like this and he'd be like, okay guys.
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  So today we're going to be talking about why while these
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  people are doing this. And what you need to understand
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  is that this is how it's going to be.
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  And this is how my voice is going to sound throughout the
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  entire fucking angle. And I'm only going to do this.
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  So it sounds like I'm in the, your ear whispering and
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  annoying. You and I'm never going to stop.
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  And it's like, but, you know, I mean he was successful so work
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  today. Who's a good gimmick at the
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  time, but like it is exact. I think it's probably because
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  you're a musician, right? There's an exhaust ability to
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  listening to something that we all work on.
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  When we make our videos, dies, others compression, making sure
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  that things are clear that minimizes that exhaustion.
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  And when Get up. I'm not going to get up close to
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  the eighth. You know, I was about to do and
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  I'm like now we're good. Good luck.
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  When you get up close to the mic, when you get up like this,
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  really close to the mic and and you're doing it all your
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  plosives. All your s, sibilance is way out
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  front, your breath is there. And it's so exhausting to here,
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  for a long time, I hit people and do it on Tick-Tock all the
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  time, Scott, take time, and be like, they'll hold the mic, like
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  this to their mouth and just Be like you're all cougars.
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  Who just what we're going to do? And yeah, it's completely
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  distorting them. Like, it's right up, right in
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  your ears right now. Like, and a lot of times when
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  you're listening to stuff on Tick Tock like is through your
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  phone, but you still get that distorted kind of annoying.
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  Yeah. Crap coming through.
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  It is like, what? Why don't you just hold it out a
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  little bit. Doesn't have to be right next to
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  yours. Just like about this far just
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  just like that 23 inches from your mouth so much better than
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  right there. No, I definitely experienced
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  that and it's something. That when you get into sound
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  design and especially when you get into mixing for like podcast
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  versus music versus whatever you're doing it for versus say
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  film or even YouTube videos, getting those little details is
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  something that I think it's more.
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  I'd probably forgive it more on Tick-Tock because take sock is a
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  relatively young audience or relatively new thing, that's
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  cell phone app, driven versus say YouTube, where you're
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  building a video. Or even twitch where there's a,
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  you know, a thousand videos out there being like, hey, how
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  should you set up your Twitch stream and they're like, put the
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  mic relatively close to your face, but a little distant,
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  maybe a pop filter, you know? They, they basically show you
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  how to do it with Tick, Tock. It's still very much, much, like
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  Vine was before it very much like that, that, that young,
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  this is my first version of making content platform.
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  And so, for those people, I kind of forgive them also They kind
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  of remind me of those old like YouTube poop memes that would
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  like blast your ears aggressively at one point or
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  another video just way overclocked way high decibel,
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  the left's were up at like 10 plus 10, just like burning your
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  computer speakers or your television speakers a down with
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  it and so, yeah. That's that's the, that's the,
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  the forgiveness I have but I do disagree.
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  It's like an especially in the podcast medium which is the true
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  audio medium right where I'm like, I need this.
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  There's a reason the sm7b is the universal podcast industry
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  standard, Mike is because it makes your voice low and warm
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  and everything at a reasonable distance and it automatically
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  reduces all those exhausted moments.
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  So that's that's the it's also four hundred dollars plus it's
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  interface. But like yeah that's the 400 USD
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  plus its interface. But you know, that's the price
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  you pay. So I'm less forgiving it in the
• 21:44
  music and podcasts and YouTube videos.
• 21:47
  I'm probably more forgiving and Tick-Tock and even twitch to a
• 21:51
  degree though. I need.
• 21:53
  It's not it's not hard to get, okay, sound onto which is
• 21:56
  already compressing your audio. So weirdly that it you just need
• 22:00
  something decent. Gotta understand what twitch
• 22:04
  twitch does to your bloody audio and it's awful like it.
• 22:07
  See terrible, even when I have this mic, like, you know, It's
• 22:10
  not the best bike in the world but it's decent.
• 22:13
  Good podcast in mind and yet twitch, just it just ruins it.
• 22:16
  It's awful. Yeah, it does.
• 22:19
  It's one as so. I have a suspicion and my
• 22:23
  suspicion is because I don't know if you bounce this podcast
• 22:27
  at this is getting real technical.
• 22:28
  I don't know if you bounce this podcast and 128 for the general
• 22:32
  network broadcast or if you do 256 free like MP, I have to
• 22:37
  bounce mine at 128 mp3 for like If I and iTunes and everything
• 22:42
  basically to hit the floor of it.
• 22:44
  When I do it for an MP3 form, I have a feeling Twitches actually
• 22:49
  doing a either doing a compressed audio.
• 22:54
  That's either comparative to an it like a really cleaned up
• 22:58
  8-bit wave or a or something akin to sub 128 MP3 and that
• 23:06
  that's the level of compression and And it makes everything
• 23:12
  hard. It is the hardest thing to make
• 23:15
  a twitch stream, sound good up front, especially because it's
• 23:20
  also usually compressing game noise and sometimes background
• 23:24
  music into it, and it's not treating those as different
• 23:27
  audio tracks. So you've got a lot of made
• 23:30
  ugly. You've got some base especially
• 23:32
  if the game's heavy on sound effects.
• 23:34
  It's really dependent on the streamer to just desperately try
• 23:40
  To mix from what they're putting up to Twitch, as well as it can
• 23:46
  be. For it to be compressed down to
• 23:48
  a 1980s car stereo level of sound.
• 23:52
  Yeah. Yeah, it's it's, it's, it's,
• 23:54
  it's Bonkers and it makes me upset because it means that I
• 23:57
  have to. Usually, if I want to do
• 24:00
  anything with it, also separately local record, my
• 24:03
  audio, local record, my video and, and the sound coming into
• 24:08
  my computer separate tracks on Else and then I'll cut those
• 24:12
  down because I just simply cannot abide.
• 24:15
  If it's, especially if it's just me, letting all that go.
• 24:18
  And so I just overworked my poor computer.
• 24:21
  Well it's well, I'm doing like Retro Game streams or things
• 24:25
  that I'm going to click for later on Twitch play.
• 24:29
  Fair play. As since we're talking about
• 24:31
  twitch tell us about you know what you're actually doing over
• 24:37
  there. I don't mean like what are you
• 24:39
  what are you doing over there? I mean Like you know, what do
• 24:42
  you actually do? Because I know that you're a
• 24:43
  retro gamer, I mentioned that in the Preamble.
• 24:46
  Do you only play retro games? If so, which games you play and
• 24:49
  what can people expect from your Twitch?
• 24:51
  So might, which is so there's, there's a few main thrusts
• 24:56
  because I'm an old man for especially for the internet.
• 24:59
  I'm just very old. I'm in my 30s but that's a very
• 25:02
  old for the internet. Um, yeah, tell me about it man.
• 25:06
  I'm 27 now. And it's like I feel Feel the
• 25:10
  weight of 30 crushing? Yes, it's coming.
• 25:15
  It's coming. It's like, it's like someone
• 25:17
  furiously. Banging on a door and it's like,
• 25:19
  you've got, like some flimsy lock that's just about to bust
• 25:22
  and you're just, like, I'm not excited for lower back pain.
• 25:28
  Um, I would again that it's not gonna get better.
• 25:34
  Um, too bad, that's a PSA right there.
• 25:38
  It's like in your 30s. Doesn't get better like a body
• 25:45
  housing. There's, there's a kid.
• 25:47
  That's what you'll see. Is it gonna be?
• 25:50
  Yeah. So, 2 p.m. retro gems, which is
• 25:55
  2 p.m. Pacific, which I believe will be
• 25:57
  about 8-10 p.m. your time would be would be usually Japanese
• 26:06
  role-playing games from the 90s is essentially the ethos And so,
• 26:11
  Super Nintendo and PlayStation and Sega Genesis era RPGs, and I
• 26:15
  do that for two reasons, number one, their game style that I
• 26:18
  like, and I grew up on that was like my focus.
• 26:22
  Those are the things that set like a bunch of franchises like
• 26:25
  Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest and all those things kind of
• 26:30
  came out of that era or exploded out of that era and sort of
• 26:34
  defined that. And then the second reason is
• 26:37
  because I started twitching Dreaming like so many with the
• 26:41
  pandemic because I was because I was bored.
• 26:46
  And and so I started doing it. And I'm like, well, I don't know
• 26:51
  if I can talk and interact with people.
• 26:53
  While I'm playing a very current game like, well, I'm playing
• 26:56
  even like an OverWatch or something like that.
• 26:59
  I could do it in the brakes, but while I'm actually in the match,
• 27:01
  I don't know if I have that ability to split Focus.
• 27:04
  So I'm going to take this Retro Game for man that requires no
• 27:08
  sense of urgency whatsoever. Her and I'm just going to play
• 27:12
  those because I know the games. I've played a lot of the games
• 27:15
  before. Sometimes I'll play a game that
• 27:17
  I've never that like I missed in my youth, but I played a lot of
• 27:21
  the games before and I liked them a lot but they because
• 27:25
  they're turn-based RPGs because there's a lot of like wandering
• 27:28
  around. There's also almost no voice
• 27:30
  acting in, any of them, it's just the old retro soundtrack,
• 27:33
  the game in like a tiny little box and then me being able to
• 27:37
  talk about whatever I want over it.
• 27:39
  Because Again, it's a much more low-key kind of relaxed thing.
• 27:43
  I do that on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and then the other
• 27:46
  thing that I stream, the other big thing that I stream, kind of
• 27:50
  regularly is Dungeons & Dragons. I get to that we got.
• 27:54
  Yeah and so but video game wise it's not always going to be
• 27:59
  retro. I've done some Fall Guy stuff
• 28:01
  before, I've never done Among Us.
• 28:03
  And I'm about to really just blitzed, which not with like a
• 28:07
  plan, but I'm trying to play the game disc.
• 28:10
  Oh Elysium in the next two weeks before Mass Effect.
• 28:14
  What is it? Legendary edition, the remaster
• 28:17
  of the Mass Effect Trilogy comes out and I'm gonna want to play a
• 28:19
  lot of that and so I'm just going to Twitch stream a lot of
• 28:22
  that there's no schedule for that.
• 28:24
  It just means that there's a good chance over the next two
• 28:27
  weeks that during the day time or during the the kind of like
• 28:32
  10 a.m. to like 5 p.m. Pacific time frame.
• 28:37
  I will probably be Twitch streaming because I'm really
• 28:40
  trying To get through that game. Because once Mass Effect comes
• 28:43
  out and then I will also be streaming Mass Effect because
• 28:46
  it's sort of the final form of the jrpgs.
• 28:49
  I played in the 90s even though it's done by, you know, Canadian
• 28:53
  Studio by Western Studios. As far as like, story and
• 28:57
  character, development and villain and world-ending level
• 29:01
  Stakes. Mass Effect is very much the
• 29:04
  modern Evolution or was the modern evolution of what, what
• 29:10
  fight. No Fantasy 4.
• 29:11
  And 6 in Chrono, Trigger, and all those games were right now.
• 29:15
  I'm playing Breath of Fire 2, by the way.
• 29:16
  Sorry, no, it's no, no need for apologies.
• 29:19
  Never apologize on my book cause you took as much as you like,
• 29:25
  yeah, when it comes to your Twitch, like obviously, you said
• 29:28
  that you've been doing it for out the pandemics.
• 29:29
  So like, how are you doing so far?
• 29:32
  I haven't had a chance to glance at your twitch but like, how's
• 29:34
  it going? What your kind of gold?
• 29:38
  I don't really have a lot of goals I used.
• 29:40
  Which as an excuse. So I've always said that when
• 29:43
  you're doing creative things, what you want to do is take
• 29:46
  things that you already like to do and just do them harder.
• 29:49
  Like that's that's really what it is.
• 29:51
  And so I like playing retro games, but it's hard for me to
• 29:54
  justify them because there's already so many new titles I
• 29:57
  play. Current is okay.
• 29:59
  Yeah. Plant current PC games.
• 30:01
  There's already so much new stuff, so I liked.
• 30:03
  So I just sort of carved out an opportunity to do it.
• 30:06
  That was content like that was like content.
• 30:10
  Elated. And that was enough of an excuse
• 30:12
  to get me to do it regularly, like to put it into my schedule
• 30:16
  because I only stream for like to wish hours at a time, a lot
• 30:19
  of twitch streams. They'll go 3 for 6 hours.
• 30:23
  I only do it for a couple hours and I do it in the afternoons.
• 30:26
  So it's not really in the way of like my evening plans or
• 30:32
  anything. I would do with other people or,
• 30:34
  you know, by spouse like spending time with my
• 30:36
  significant other. But so, I sorta just started
• 30:41
  doing it and I watched the several liked which videos which
• 30:45
  had already been kind of interested in twitch.
• 30:47
  I'd watched a fair amount of twitch but I already been kind
• 30:50
  of interested. And then a lot of creators that
• 30:53
  are fairly successful just said, don't try and be whatever.
• 30:56
  This is just be what you want to be.
• 30:58
  But think about the fact that there's people in the room with
• 31:01
  you. So you've got a hold a
• 31:03
  conversation to a degree, don't just turn on the game and play.
• 31:08
  Interact with the people. There's all these different
• 31:10
  tools and ways to go about this. And so I was like well I can
• 31:13
  talk so I'll just talk, I'll come up with topics so it's
• 31:16
  going fairly well, I don't push the weirdly enough.
• 31:22
  I don't push the Retro Gaming that much because I just sort of
• 31:26
  advertise it when I'm, you know, like once a week or once every
• 31:30
  other week when I'm about to go live post on social media and
• 31:33
  stuff like that, I don't push that a lot because I feel like
• 31:36
  that's the relaxing kind. It afternoon kind of hang things
• 31:40
  that you just have on the background and we talked old
• 31:43
  RPGs or politics or comic book stuff or whatever is on my mind
• 31:48
  and then then but you know, you know, it's grown fairly
• 31:54
  naturally organically. I would say that my goal with it
• 31:58
  is to have a thing where where it adds as a supplement for
• 32:03
  people to have a conversation with me if they want between the
• 32:07
  Content that I can't do that with which is like the podcast
• 32:12
  or other twitch streams. Like I mentioned earlier where
• 32:15
  I'm doing it with multiple people, I'm going to press you a
• 32:18
  little bit more in the numbers because and the reason for this
• 32:21
  is because If it was and I was listening who don't use twitch,
• 32:28
  twitch does nothing for small content creators.
• 32:32
  Trying to gross. Yeah, is zero, you know, I for a
• 32:36
  long time, I was actually doing Retro Gaming on Twitch, so lie
• 32:40
  and not streaming anywhere else, and it wasn't going well, to be
• 32:44
  honest now and I stopped doing it because it was just not fun
• 32:48
  anymore. But what I did discover during
• 32:50
  that time is that I loved talking at length.
• 32:54
  Doing live streams and I knew that if I would ever build up
• 32:57
  enough of an audience, that's what I would do and then someone
• 33:00
  introduced me to restream and yeah, basically, I started
• 33:05
  streaming live on Twitch D live and YouTube at the same time and
• 33:09
  that's what I do every Friday, right?
• 33:11
  Yeah. And through that, I've started
• 33:12
  to begin to build a community through that.
• 33:16
  And every Friday we meet up and we have this, this live stream
• 33:20
  more and more people joining and because I'm creating content Do
• 33:24
  these different platforms, right?
• 33:25
  Like Tick-Tock, Instagram, stuff like that.
• 33:28
  If they like, what I do, they're they're more inclined to join me
• 33:30
  and to join those extremes, right?
• 33:32
  And this is what a lot of big successful content creators
• 33:36
  recommend that you do because bringing it back to Twitch.
• 33:39
  You just can't do that. Unless you're, you will get
• 33:43
  random people come into your streams here and there, if
• 33:45
  you're playing a popular game or something really Niche or
• 33:48
  something, but it is very difficult.
• 33:50
  You don't mean like, no, I'm just that.
• 33:51
  I was playing all Pokemon games and literally Me, no one was
• 33:54
  joining. There was a period where some
• 33:57
  people were joining now. And again, I'd like one or two.
• 33:59
  I think the most I've ever had from a raid was like somewhere
• 34:01
  between 15 to 30, but only happens like once or twice and
• 34:05
  it just I got so sick and tired of just talking to myself that I
• 34:08
  just packed it in. But now that I've got this kind
• 34:13
  of live stream thing going on, it works for me and that's what
• 34:16
  I've kind of stuck with you. You roll with what works?
• 34:19
  But yeah, twitch. It's like it's not like YouTube
• 34:22
  YouTube even If you're small content creator, they do kind of
• 34:26
  push you once they see that you're doing certain things that
• 34:29
  certain videos are doing well, they will eventually start to
• 34:32
  push you. And if you have a good like, SEO
• 34:34
  profile on the back, you know, things like keywords and stuff
• 34:37
  like that, they will reward you for that.
• 34:39
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. As far as I'm aware that twitch
• 34:42
  doesnt rewards you anything, or how to use also.
• 34:46
  Yeah. YouTube is also easier because
• 34:48
  if you, if you feel like you've made a good video and you
• 34:52
  really, you really have a lot of faith in the product and its
• 34:54
  really like paint prescient. It's really like current and
• 34:58
  everything. You can just give Google money
• 35:01
  to help you along. Well, there is that shit.
• 35:04
  Yeah, I mean, I don't recommend it for a lot of people, I don't
• 35:07
  necessarily know how much it turns but like, like they're
• 35:10
  gonna put it over in the relevant things and they'll help
• 35:13
  you with that. And yeah, obviously, that's
• 35:15
  participating in something. That's a little less honest.
• 35:18
  But I, you know, I'm talking to the creators that are like, I've
• 35:21
  made this. I think this is really good, I
• 35:23
  think. It's Stacks up.
• 35:25
  I've got a little extra money. Let's put that in the
• 35:27
  recommendations, and that will work.
• 35:30
  If the person's individual view, subjective view of their own
• 35:34
  content. Actually lines up with a broader
• 35:37
  object audience, subjective view, or an audience objective
• 35:40
  view, but yet, which know there's zero discoverability on
• 35:44
  Twitch. There is zero tools on Twitch to
• 35:48
  help audience really fine specific creators or creators.
• 35:52
  They might like or Or or those creators to reach that audience,
• 35:59
  they'll have recommended stuff for you, but it's all already
• 36:02
  people that are doing well enough.
• 36:05
  There's no growth discoverability.
• 36:07
  These are people that already are sort of proven entities, to
• 36:10
  Twitch. And so for me, Twitch numbers
• 36:12
  are like this. My average afternoon streams,
• 36:15
  I'd say my average viewer count lives, somewhere at around
• 36:18
  anywhere, between 5 to 15 depending on the day.
• 36:23
  Um, I can get his Is five, but I can get as high as 15 and so I
• 36:27
  like to say it's like 8 or 10 people hang out in the room on
• 36:30
  my on my to p.m. retro gems streams.
• 36:33
  I I just, I just, I just interject that for those
• 36:36
  visiting on Twitch, that's a very very good for start.
• 36:39
  Yeah, that's starting out. That's X affiliate numbers.
• 36:41
  Um, yeah, yeah. And then on my afternoon or on
• 36:49
  my viewer, my follower count. I think it's kind of around
• 36:52
  like, 120 right now. which means that I kind of specifically did
• 36:57
  what I wanted to which was position might which timeframes
• 37:01
  and what I was doing at very particular times that I didn't
• 37:05
  see retro content online, I didn't see a lot of people
• 37:10
  playing Super Nintendo games or Genesis games or anything at the
• 37:15
  afternoon time on the west coast kind of early evening on the
• 37:18
  east coast in the US and of course later at night there so I
• 37:25
  kind of had to pick and so I did do a little research there to
• 37:29
  decide if I was going to do it like right away at like 9:00
• 37:33
  10:00 in the morning or if I was going to do it around like noon
• 37:36
  or two and I eventually moved it to two.
• 37:38
  And that did well, I have about a 10 percent subscriber rate,
• 37:44
  which is nice. So that isn't a lot of money,
• 37:49
  but it means that every, you know, three, four months between
• 37:51
  that and like donations and cheers and stuff, I end up
• 37:54
  getting a small little paycheck from twitch and for now that is
• 37:58
  100% fine. Because I did not see twitches
• 38:02
  and income Source. Yeah, or an expansion.
• 38:04
  I always saw it as a I want to do this thing, so I'm just going
• 38:09
  to Twitch stream it as well. I'm just going to do the thing.
• 38:12
  It means that I have to put a bit more energy into it, but if,
• 38:16
  if you keep your head space, that the point of it is to do
• 38:20
  the thing, not to have that thing.
• 38:24
  You blow up or have that thing become the career, but it's
• 38:28
  just, I want to play retro games.
• 38:30
  I want to play video games, I want to play D&D.
• 38:33
  I'm just going to stream it as well.
• 38:35
  It means that all of that negativity, that definitely
• 38:38
  comes from when you're streaming for 0 or 1 or 2.
• 38:41
  People just just rolls off. I just literally set up this
• 38:46
  same exact setup. I'm here.
• 38:48
  And I just open up a program and hit go live.
• 38:51
  I guess I spend a little time on overlays and stuff like that.
• 38:53
  At but it's not or on design but it's not a lot of extra effort
• 38:58
  for my goal on Twitch. I would love it to get to the
• 39:01
  point. Where about monthly?
• 39:03
  I was receiving a little bit of money that would require about
• 39:06
  three to four times my current rate but I don't need it to go
• 39:12
  past that and honestly any affiliate that's getting a
• 39:14
  monthly check from twitch is in like the top three to five
• 39:19
  percent of twitch streamers. There's not a lot that.
• 39:22
  I mean there's hundreds of Thousands of twitch streamers at
• 39:25
  this point. So there's not a lot of money
• 39:28
  being had by anyone other than the highest of the high, the
• 39:31
  smallest percent of people yet that there's certain people on
• 39:34
  Twitter was a guy. I think his name is Devin Nash.
• 39:37
  I've spoken about this on the podcast before and he like,
• 39:41
  pretty much just tells people don't bother with twitch go to,
• 39:44
  in terms of going affiliate because it's compared to how
• 39:47
  much money you can make on other platforms.
• 39:49
  Yeah. It's the, there is no comparison
• 39:52
  at which basically takes like, Ninety percent of your income or
• 39:55
  something crazy like that. And it blew my mind learning
• 39:58
  about that. And to be fair, I don't even
• 40:00
  think about twitch at all. Like it, I have it there and
• 40:04
  every now and again people will hop in into my streams from
• 40:09
  twitch. And, you know, the irony, the
• 40:11
  funny thing about it, right? Is, that they're always ask me,
• 40:14
  like, oh, who are you talking to?
• 40:16
  Because they obviously can't see the comments, right?
• 40:18
  And I'm like, oh yeah, we're also streaming on YouTube and D
• 40:21
  live. And then they would help over
• 40:22
  and go to my Probably subjects, it works.
• 40:25
  Well, that's what I really care about but it's in, I do think
• 40:30
  that restream and things like that, not going affiliate are a
• 40:34
  little bit better to stream across other platforms.
• 40:38
  I know it looks like the numbers are shaking out that if we're
• 40:42
  talking about the thing you make the most percentage of persons
• 40:45
  versus, I don't know about the watchability numbers and stuff
• 40:48
  like yeah, don't have those on hand but if you're talking about
• 40:50
  the things you make the most percentage of Facebook right
• 40:53
  now, Yeah, I used to paying version of it, which is not
• 40:58
  what? I that's total bananas.
• 40:59
  It's not what I would have expected, but it's Facebook
• 41:02
  right now. And that makes sense to me in a
• 41:04
  way that Facebook is the only social media platform, first,
• 41:08
  right? So, it's whole vibe is exposure
• 41:11
  even though it loves to charge you, for every cent that it can
• 41:15
  of that if you're on a page or if you're trying to do that, but
• 41:19
  Facebook's whole vibe is exposure and and feed stuff.
• 41:23
  Go, it's gonna throw whether or not people always pay for it or
• 41:28
  not, if someone streaming on it, it's going to throw that stream.
• 41:31
  If you are friends with someone that's watching that stream, you
• 41:35
  will see that there watching that stream like you won't every
• 41:38
  time, but you will see it sometimes.
• 41:40
  And that kind of thing. Can't happen even on YouTube,
• 41:44
  which is demonstrable a better than twitch as well as a
• 41:48
  platform. Pretty much everything is better
• 41:52
  than twitch to stream on. Twitch just sort of invented the
• 41:55
  wheel. So having restream also hit that
• 42:00
  is just sort of like, you know, having that extra line on your
• 42:04
  business card. If you're streaming of it's like
• 42:06
  yes, of course, I'm on Twitch. But what's important to me is
• 42:08
  this thing. Yeah, like, like an office.
• 42:12
  Having a mailing address. How many offices actually want
• 42:14
  to receive mail anymore? None, they'd all like it to come
• 42:17
  digitally. If they can avoid it or if they
• 42:20
  can avoid it coming through mail.
• 42:21
  But you literally have to have Least a p.o. box of some kind to
• 42:26
  show that you're like a real business that exists and so so
• 42:34
  therefore I think that's what twitch is becoming and it's
• 42:38
  probably going to fade. I would imagine over the next
• 42:40
  few years, we will finally see a fair enough migration off of
• 42:44
  twitch, probably to YouTube. It makes the most sense but
• 42:48
  possibly to other platforms or stratifying for a little while
• 42:52
  until someone comes in. Yeah, it's a big list.
• 42:54
  I wouldn't be sad to see twitch, go and it just see how it's
• 42:57
  constant problems with that platform.
• 43:00
  Everything from that dmca staff to, and I'm going to be wrong.
• 43:04
  I know YouTube is, is guilty of that too.
• 43:06
  But too, well, I mean Twitches ridiculous with it.
• 43:09
  Like, you can actually legitimately happy like, be
• 43:12
  removed from the platform for that.
• 43:13
  And it's like, what, what for playing a music like, yeah, for
• 43:17
  those, for those that don't know, I don't know if you've
• 43:21
  talked about the dmca twitch, Rama.
• 43:25
  But like, the dmca takedowns, which are basically, you have
• 43:28
  copyright music playing in your video that you don't have
• 43:32
  license to broadcast to make money off of, or whatever.
• 43:36
  The dmca takedowns on Twitch was like, I, yes, YouTube had
• 43:42
  problems with these but YouTube had like some problems with it
• 43:47
  and then invented situations and tools to manage those problems
• 43:52
  and processes very Quickly and effectively.
• 43:55
  And it happened at a time when YouTube wasn't a money-making
• 43:58
  platform for a lot of people and and versus twitch which like,
• 44:05
  again knew this was the thing. 100% aware just didn't bother
• 44:10
  dealing with a problem that it knew what hit them like a tidal
• 44:13
  wave. It hit them like a tidal wave
• 44:15
  and now now, oh, yeah, like you said, we had people who sold
• 44:19
  channels were cancelled or are taken down whose every clip and
• 44:23
  video. That they had previously was
• 44:25
  deleted and saved and just gone forever.
• 44:28
  Um, some of them got some restoration, some of them got
• 44:32
  back there but that was all Twitches focused which is not a
• 44:35
  small company, it's Amazon. So therefore it should have
• 44:39
  known that eventually record labels would come with.
• 44:45
  These dmca's like they did for YouTube a decade ago.
• 44:49
  Um when it was a much smaller thing and YouTube Just invented
• 44:53
  very Lean platform struck, there was no buting, the audio on
• 44:56
  Twitch. There was no, you get a
• 44:59
  copyright thing. The video doesn't even get taken
• 45:01
  down. You look at it and then you can
• 45:04
  address that as you. So VB that's just 0 to any
• 45:07
  dmca's your channels gone and and yeah, it was shocking.
• 45:11
  So I am grateful to Twitch for what it did because it created a
• 45:15
  thing that didn't really exist and for Mass public.
• 45:20
  And unless it does some significant changes to its It
• 45:24
  needs to go the way of, You Know, the Way of the dinosaur
• 45:28
  that it is, which is it needs to walk away and let other people
• 45:32
  innovate and do a better job and those might be big corporations
• 45:36
  or they might be, you know, smaller platforms.
• 45:39
  It's deform the deal. What's the other thing that you
• 45:43
  stream on beside YouTube, daddy, with d life?
• 45:47
  We live D live d-line things like that coming in and doing
• 45:52
  better work. I better interfaces for people.
• 45:57
  Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's like you said
• 46:00
  before, I think it has just tied into name, value and judgmental
• 46:03
  about Facebook real quick. So, you mentioned that like,
• 46:05
  yeah, I found the same thing. Like I have a Facebook page that
• 46:10
  they realize, I only started like properly updating in the
• 46:13
  last year. Yeah.
• 46:15
  Because I noticed that randomly, they just push your Clips like
• 46:20
  and you start getting like, thousands of views, randomly.
• 46:23
  And it's really random. So now because I post basically
• 46:27
  for, I do long form, a short form content separately so your
• 46:31
  channel that this podcast will go on is my, my main Channel, my
• 46:34
  long form, content, Channel and stuff, right?
• 46:37
  But then I've also got a short Channel essentially and a
• 46:42
  podcast Clips Channel, which is a mixture of long form, and
• 46:45
  short film clips, right? Yeah.
• 46:47
  All of my short form content also gets posted on Instagram
• 46:53
  and And Tick-Tock and then Facebook because I've noticed
• 46:57
  that this happened and obviously most videos you see on Facebook,
• 47:01
  a short form anyway, so long form.
• 47:02
  I mean long-form stuff can get views, but short form is
• 47:05
  generally better, right? Exactly.
• 47:07
  It's performing live. It's interesting because I
• 47:09
  always kind of pushed Facebook to the back of my mind because I
• 47:13
  assumed like I can't do anything for you and you know, it's like
• 47:16
  they just want you to pay for their advertising and stuff.
• 47:19
  But on the coach room like they do want you to do that, but they
• 47:22
  do push you. It's a video.
• 47:25
  I think it's because right now, Facebook is in a place where
• 47:28
  pushing video content on their platform is advantageous for
• 47:32
  them as a corporation and it's a great way to sneak around having
• 47:35
  to having to, you know, pay the money.
• 47:39
  Just so that the people that follow your page can see your
• 47:41
  posts because it is a weird extreme Valley between between
• 47:49
  Facebook, like page posts, where you post Something up for the
• 47:54
  people that like your page to see and a video that they'll
• 47:57
  just randomly promote to a bunch of strangers because you
• 48:01
  literally for those that don't know if people with Facebook
• 48:04
  pages, if you want your whole audience, that has decided to
• 48:08
  like your page to see it, you have to pay Facebook.
• 48:11
  There is no natural. Like I suppose, your viewers
• 48:15
  could like, and share and comment enough that Facebook's
• 48:18
  algorithm will actually push it out.
• 48:20
  But nine times out of 10, you have to give them a little bit
• 48:22
  of money or the People that have decided that they like your
• 48:25
  content won't even see some of your posts.
• 48:27
  This is especially true with events as well, but videos it
• 48:33
  benefits, Facebook, Instagram has the same thing there, you
• 48:36
  know, owned by the same company, Instagram has the same thing
• 48:39
  where there's a lot of visibility on Instagram to
• 48:41
  people who don't know you. And then, of course, take talks
• 48:44
  some master of this, right now. Tip talks all about that.
• 48:47
  That. And so, these things that with
• 48:50
  Facebook, specifically, you have to kind of play games, like
• 48:53
  instead of Of having a page maybe have a group because
• 48:56
  groups show people everything in their feets.
• 48:59
  So if somebody posts to the group the group, the person will
• 49:02
  get a notification as well as on their feed.
• 49:05
  They'll see it so like, like getting around Facebook's
• 49:09
  advertising, it's so amusing to me, that one of the easiest ways
• 49:12
  to do it is just post a video to their platform, not a link but
• 49:17
  like just a video to their platform that plays and they
• 49:21
  will gladly spread that around Yeah.
• 49:24
  Video could literally just be an advertisement.
• 49:26
  You can literally in the video be like, hey, we got a new
• 49:30
  episode coming out and then maybe you play like a little
• 49:32
  clip and then you're like, come back to this and it's like 30
• 49:35
  seconds. It's clearly a commercial,
• 49:38
  doesn't matter, they'll play. I think that's why they've been
• 49:41
  pushing my content lately. Yeah, because I've been doing
• 49:44
  that. I made the transition ice.
• 49:46
  I mean, I still will promote external staff when it's
• 49:50
  released because why wouldn't you?
• 49:51
  But whenever it's a video that a short, I just post it directly
• 49:55
  to Facebook and yeah, that's what they like, that's what they
• 49:58
  want. He's his interesting thing about
• 50:00
  Facebook as well, The Tick-Tock does as well.
• 50:03
  So whenever I upload a video on Facebook or Tick-Tock, initially
• 50:07
  nothing zilch forgotten about, but with Tick-Tock about seven
• 50:13
  or eight hours later, starts picking up, use just like on
• 50:17
  with YouTube Shores, same principle.
• 50:19
  It gets you out of a bunch of people, sometimes twice or even
• 50:22
  three times. Facebook does the same thing.
• 50:25
  So for instance, I uploaded a video, you know, that that Bongo
• 50:30
  touch our song. Right?
• 50:31
  Yeah, yeah. And and that's got like 1.7 K
• 50:35
  now and Counting and I released it may be God month ago, and it
• 50:43
  just would they randomly blow it up?
• 50:44
  And it's, yeah, I think it's to do with what you said is when
• 50:47
  you upload it directly to the platform, they reward you for
• 50:50
  doing that. Yeah, they because that's what
• 50:52
  they want. Especially Facebook right now
• 50:55
  because it really wants to enhance its video functionality.
• 51:00
  I have a feeling that Facebook and Instagram are eventually
• 51:03
  going to make a play to do a full video platform.
• 51:08
  Yeah. But like the That's a YouTube
• 51:11
  comparative. I don't know when their pull
• 51:15
  trigger is but the more people that are watching 32nd minute
• 51:19
  long 5 minute long seven-minute or live streams on either of
• 51:22
  those platforms will will kind of encourage them to do that.
• 51:28
  So they're just looking to get those numbers.
• 51:29
  So if you want to advertise on Facebook, we're telling you just
• 51:33
  just upload videos directly to Facebook nothing, super long,
• 51:36
  nothing like, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, that doesn't seem to
• 51:39
  play. Say, but again minute long even
• 51:41
  like 5 minute long videos. Yeah, those those play really
• 51:45
  well on, on on it amazingly. I actually, I actually disagree
• 51:50
  with you on that. Yeah, I think that It would make
• 51:56
  a lot of business sense in some ways to set up a separate
• 51:59
  platform, that combines everything in one and basically
• 52:02
  start afresh, right? Like, I think it would be a
• 52:05
  advantageous but the same time when you look at in specifically
• 52:10
  the structure of what they're doing on both Instagram and
• 52:12
  Facebook, they don't need to set up one.
• 52:16
  And what I mean by that is if this is not me trying to be
• 52:19
  nitpicky I'm just sort of saying like because of the way that
• 52:22
  those websites are used Like you said, Facebook is the gold
• 52:27
  standard for social media while you know it's what most people
• 52:30
  use the old standard. Yeah.
• 52:32
  It's you know what I mean? It's it's like yeah it's not
• 52:35
  like it's not like a social media platform.
• 52:39
  Sorry YouTube is not really like a social media platform like how
• 52:42
  Facebook is Janome. Yeah, the video sharing platform
• 52:45
  that has social media functionality, whereas Facebook
• 52:49
  and Instagram are social media platforms with the video
• 52:52
  functionality. Hmm.
• 52:54
  Now Instagram has done everything under the sun with
• 52:57
  reals. You can upload your standard
• 52:59
  Clips. You can do long, form, content
• 53:01
  on there. Now, you can do, yeah, I you can
• 53:03
  do everything right, Facebook? Basically the same thing, but it
• 53:08
  still comes boils down to the fact that like everyone using
• 53:12
  Facebook has that one news feed and whatever they've liked be at
• 53:17
  the group's. You mentioned the pages,
• 53:19
  whatever they get, pushed all of that stuff over its new, whether
• 53:22
  it's relevant to the things. Yeah, search for Those mints
• 53:25
  whatever they get pushed, all of those different things.
• 53:28
  And I think that style has never stopped working if you don't him
• 53:34
  in you, you are correct. That has never that.
• 53:37
  I mean, obviously Tick-Tock just sort of emulated it for its
• 53:40
  video by being like would have that but just video share
• 53:43
  content. Yes.
• 53:44
  So like like it's still essentially a news feed.
• 53:47
  It like half of my time on Tick Tock is watching tic tocs that I
• 53:53
  have not followed you know. Like watching creators that are
• 53:56
  just being pushed to me and seeing if I liked them, which is
• 54:01
  why everybody should be making videos on Tick.
• 54:03
  Tock, absolutely myself. But I just haven't gotten to
• 54:06
  that yet. Ever, haven't figured out how I
• 54:09
  want to modify my stuff to it but but yeah, everybody should
• 54:13
  be making videos on Tick Tock. It's the platform of the moment
• 54:15
  for a reason. Does it matter?
• 54:17
  Your age doesn't matter, the kind of videos just make them
• 54:21
  and you will find an audience there that you would never.
• 54:24
  Get to reach anywhere else. Yeah, I couldn't agree more with
• 54:28
  you. I set up a tick tock last year.
• 54:31
  It didn't really get anywhere. Yeah, I had like a hundred or so
• 54:35
  people 150, but it just, it wasn't really, it wasn't going
• 54:38
  anywhere, but I wasn't playing the game properly.
• 54:40
  I am playing the game properly now, which I'm what I mean by
• 54:44
  that is being experimental hopping on trends when they
• 54:48
  come, you know, just don't be scared, just go for it, try it
• 54:52
  because it pays off. So, and you'd be surprised the
• 54:56
  stuff that I mean, Jesus Tick-Tock is the only platform
• 54:59
  that I have where I've gotten to over a thousand followers.
• 55:03
  I'm on like seven one thousand seven hundred followers now.
• 55:07
  Yeah. And that kind of blows my mind
• 55:09
  especially that like every pretty much every video get at
• 55:11
  least 100 views now which is nice to see but it's like I
• 55:19
  think it forces you to be much more creative than other
• 55:23
  platforms. It absolutely does.
• 55:26
  You've got your time limits? You've got sort of the fact that
• 55:31
  you can't live in a space, right?
• 55:34
  With You Tube videos with podcast, it's about what is this
• 55:36
  product that you repeatedly put out that you do that sort of
• 55:39
  feels like you with Tick-Tock it.
• 55:42
  A lot of there's that but there's also what are people on
• 55:45
  Tick? Tock watching right now?
• 55:47
  What's the Hot stuff on Tick Tock and I love it so much
• 55:51
  because no other platform Tick-Tock organically provides
• 55:56
  trending for their platform creators every every minute.
• 56:01
  And so you can easily see like oh, what would be a video that
• 56:06
  it would get me on a feed that did that?
• 56:07
  And because the videos are short, you're not putting a ton
• 56:10
  of production time into it so it's not as exhausting to sort
• 56:14
  of follow the trends and be like, how do I make this
• 56:17
  different? The 70 of this video that I've
• 56:20
  seen or 100 or depending on the trend 1000 and yeah, I love, I
• 56:28
  am old, I'm in the back half of my 30s and Tick-Tock is like one
• 56:32
  of my favorite relaxation devices at this point of just
• 56:36
  scrolling through tick-tocks and enjoying it.
• 56:40
  And and then I get to see what the kids are doing with what the
• 56:43
  users are up to but it's cool. I love it.
• 56:47
  I just I can't figure out how to make D and D into it without
• 56:54
  doing what I've already seen and more specifically my kind of
• 56:57
  like branded content. I have a couple ideas, I just
• 57:00
  haven't like played with an experiment on clipping up, my
• 57:05
  podcasts and twitch streams into something that I can just push
• 57:09
  to tick. Tock yet.
• 57:12
  We've actually lost you on video.
• 57:14
  We have a lovely still of you. Kind of Stop being frozen in
• 57:20
  time and I'm wondering if we can get you back because I'd love to
• 57:23
  have you back, can you? It's the Moment of Truth here?
• 57:29
  Also we are we are we gonna get him back?
• 57:31
  Are we gonna get him back? Is he going to come back?
• 57:35
  Dundun, dundun. Dundun.
• 57:40
  Can you hear me now? I can hear you.
• 57:42
  I just can't scare. Let me let me kill my video.
• 57:48
  And I think this is what is happening.
• 57:51
  So yeah, for those listening, for those listening, they won't
• 57:54
  be able to appreciate this. That's why I say, make sure to
• 57:57
  go out and check out the platform platform podcast on
• 58:01
  YouTube, so you can actually see what we do here.
• 58:05
  But, yeah, I see a blue screen of death.
• 58:08
  What is this? Blue screen of death.
• 58:10
  What's a light? Light, blue screen of death.
• 58:14
  There you go. You can do it.
• 58:15
  There he is. Now, it's a different camera
• 58:18
  camera. Yeah, it's the laptop camera.
• 58:20
  It's a Wayne's World. You camera.
• 58:21
  One camera. Two camera.
• 58:24
  One camera two. Yeah, it's blue.
• 58:27
  Okay, that's just, he's going back to Blue now.
• 58:29
  He's lost is no, no, we're good, we're good, we're back, we're
• 58:32
  back here. My other camera having video
• 58:39
  problems but we should be good. Apologies for the delay.
• 58:42
  That was a typical. We have, we have Comcast in the
• 58:45
  United States. There are Xfinity.
• 58:48
  They're terrible. They're one of three.
• 58:51
  Major internet providers to control.
• 58:52
  Almost all the internet here and do not.
• 58:56
  If you come to the u.s. give them as little money as
• 58:58
  possible, but they all have monopolies and duopolies if you
• 59:02
  live here. So you have to play with one of
• 59:05
  There's no there's no open options and so I thusly survive
• 59:11
  with this. Let's say yeah, yeah, let go on.
• 59:16
  Let's talk D&D. You want to, you want to talk to
• 59:19
  Andy? I want to talk Dandy what is D
• 59:22
  and D, D and D is Dungeons and Dragons.
• 59:24
  The popular board game that we all know and love.
• 59:27
  You know, I've never actually played it but I'm aware of it,
• 59:32
  talk to yeah. Let's let's start with twitch
• 59:34
  side of Things. So what are you doing with
• 59:36
  twitch with as it pertains to DSL.
• 59:39
  So with DD Fort which I have a weekly game on Twitch on
• 59:47
  Tuesdays at like 7:30 p.m. Pacific.
• 59:50
  It's like two to three hour or two and a half to three hours
• 59:53
  sessions and we play Dungeons and Dragons virtually the way
• 59:59
  that it looks when you watch D&D is very similar to what kind of
• 1:00:03
  critical role. The most famous D&D Sort of
• 1:00:05
  stream out there does where there's, you know, little boxes
• 1:00:10
  of camera, heads talking much like a conference call and
• 1:00:14
  usually there's like a pretty overlay or pretty design around
• 1:00:18
  it. Some character information and
• 1:00:20
  then you have many maps. And so I play a lot of D&D
• 1:00:24
  anyway, and I'm usually the, the dungeon master in games, which
• 1:00:30
  means I run the games. And so I was, I reached out to a
• 1:00:34
  bunch of people. When the pandemic started again
• 1:00:38
  and I was like, hey everyone, I want to do a D&D game, we don't
• 1:00:42
  have to Twitch stream it but I wouldn't mind Twitch streaming
• 1:00:45
  in. And then for that group, I
• 1:00:47
  actually had to randomly roll dice to pick because I just kind
• 1:00:51
  of reached out to like social media and said, who would be
• 1:00:55
  interested assigned them all, die, number value, and then roll
• 1:00:58
  dice to find who would be in the party.
• 1:01:01
  And then they all agreed to be on Twitch.
• 1:01:03
  So I was like, fine will Which treatment, and then it's just
• 1:01:07
  like, a normal table game. It's just virtual.
• 1:01:09
  So it's all narrative and talking and stuff, and then,
• 1:01:13
  rather than a physical map with Miniatures people, in a digital
• 1:01:17
  map, in the case of my Tuesday game, I use Photoshop actually,
• 1:01:21
  and I just move their markers for them because I'm very used
• 1:01:23
  to using Photoshop. And then I have a Monday game as
• 1:01:26
  well and that game we use roll20, which is a virtual
• 1:01:30
  tabletop that allows people to log in and like move their
• 1:01:33
  tokens around and look at the map.
• 1:01:35
  And it allows me to do stuff as well digitally and all that.
• 1:01:39
  What's the DND twitch Community? Like how big are we talking?
• 1:01:45
  Because obviously, you know, dear dear, dear and he's been
• 1:01:47
  around for a long time we took and I think it was heavily
• 1:01:51
  popularized if I'm correct me if I'm wrong in the 80s.
• 1:01:54
  Yeah, and then obviously, it's transformed.
• 1:01:57
  As you mentioned there, you know, there's a virtual versions
• 1:01:59
  of the gam. Sure there's many, many
• 1:02:00
  different versions. But yeah, talk to us a little
• 1:02:03
  bit about the twitch community. What that looks like and how big
• 1:02:06
  it is, and so on and so forth. The twitch Community for D and D
• 1:02:10
  is actually pretty big for it. Like, like, when you're not
• 1:02:14
  thinking in twitch numbers, okay, you're looking at at any
• 1:02:19
  given time you're looking, if you're looking at twitch, they
• 1:02:23
  tend to show people who are wanting things in different
• 1:02:25
  categories, and Dungeons and Dragons has its own.
• 1:02:28
  You know, like category label. And so you're looking at
• 1:02:31
  anywhere between five Thousand to twenty thousand people at any
• 1:02:37
  given time are somewhere watching DMD, unless it's in the
• 1:02:41
  very narrow at multiple time, zones are sleep, nobody's
• 1:02:45
  playing this kind of thing. Um, but yeah, Twitches, B and D
• 1:02:50
  is pretty popular in the way that D&D player's.
• 1:02:55
  Rd&d audience will watch a ton of different DND content.
• 1:03:01
  Like they, you don't you don't have Of twitch viewers and a lot
• 1:03:06
  of live stream viewers have a handful of people, they like to
• 1:03:09
  watch and they'll watch their content and then that's it.
• 1:03:12
  But with Dean D, you're watching games, you're watching
• 1:03:15
  persistent campaigns and you're usually watching a group of four
• 1:03:20
  to seven people playing at the same time, so you get audience
• 1:03:24
  members. If it's something like high
• 1:03:25
  rollers D and D which has 35 thousand followers on its
• 1:03:29
  Channel, not including the Yogscast channel that it's part
• 1:03:31
  of our geography, as group that is part of you're you have you
• 1:03:36
  have people that are in like the 10,000 Mark watching live
• 1:03:40
  because they also stream as Gamers individually in the video
• 1:03:44
  games days and they all brought their audiences in.
• 1:03:47
  So it's a pretty cool thing. My favorite part about twitch
• 1:03:50
  D&D and performative d and d for live stream is that is that if
• 1:03:54
  you want to have a little fun with the audience that's
• 1:03:57
  watching it you can call out to people it while you're playing
• 1:04:03
  as a DM and be like this. Normally be a roll from me as
• 1:04:07
  the dungeon master. I'd be rolling a dice to see how
• 1:04:09
  likely this is going to happen. Would this person like to do it,
• 1:04:13
  you know, with this name in the chat like to do it and I can
• 1:04:17
  kind of let them influence the game that are people that have
• 1:04:19
  donated money before simply to allow a player.
• 1:04:23
  To re-roll something, that's not organized system.
• 1:04:27
  I don't have Micro transactions in my game, that was just grown
• 1:04:30
  out of that person being like I've donated this much.
• 1:04:34
  Can someone re-roll And I'm like yeah, fine.
• 1:04:36
  And so that's kind of fun. It randomizes it a lot they say
• 1:04:39
  you could get. I mean I know that the objective
• 1:04:42
  is to have fun. It's not to make money but in
• 1:04:44
  terms of like good ways to kind of get donations through two
• 1:04:48
  extremes. That's a great way to dick like
• 1:04:51
  to choose how to dictate the game via donations.
• 1:04:54
  I mean, why not go for, why not? Yeah, if people want to do it.
• 1:04:59
  Yeah, but they've absolutely like saved characters before,
• 1:05:03
  but it's also really fun one. Favorite things about it too, is
• 1:05:06
  that when your Twitch streaming like for retro Gems or any other
• 1:05:09
  video game, when your Twitch streaming a game and you're
• 1:05:12
  playing in your kind of talking with your chat, you can sort of
• 1:05:15
  verbally talk with your hands are occupied.
• 1:05:17
  And when I am dungeon mastering, I can barely.
• 1:05:21
  I have to be very deliberate about when I pay attention to
• 1:05:23
  chat because I'm usually engaged with other people on the stream.
• 1:05:27
  I can't, I can't really interact but my entire table of players
• 1:05:32
  can be in the chat and talking with people.
• 1:05:35
  People because you're not always involving your whole group of
• 1:05:39
  party members. Sometimes you're doing a
• 1:05:41
  one-on-one scene with people or two people are over here and
• 1:05:44
  they're talking and so they can actually talk.
• 1:05:46
  So it's actually a more connected in like if it gets big
• 1:05:50
  enough to where the chat is just chaos.
• 1:05:52
  Yeah, then can't do that. But when it's small for smaller
• 1:05:55
  streamers, I think it's really fun because you cannot interrupt
• 1:05:59
  the gameplay, the stream is still happening.
• 1:06:01
  You're not interrupting the table, but you're also engaging
• 1:06:04
  the Audience. That's come there as one of the
• 1:06:08
  players and doing that, and it's one of my favorite things that
• 1:06:12
  sort of grown out of it. Also, it's, it's numbers are
• 1:06:16
  like better when you starting out as a twitch streamer.
• 1:06:19
  If you do like D&D, getting onto someone else's twitch, DDT,
• 1:06:23
  which is a great way to cross advertised, as well as just
• 1:06:28
  getting people to watch in my case, retro gems 5215, a lot of
• 1:06:34
  times It's like 8 to 10 people for my DNT streams.
• 1:06:37
  It's always 20 people to 30 people, like but guaranteed the
• 1:06:43
  worst night I've had is 15 and that's because I just think it's
• 1:06:50
  more interesting because it's a continuing campaign.
• 1:06:52
  So when someone's invested, they're just going to keep
• 1:06:54
  watching it and they can catch up on the vods on YouTube if
• 1:06:57
  they want or within the two weeks of twitch.
• 1:07:00
  But yeah, I love I love d and e on Twitch.
• 1:07:03
  It's absolutely one of my favorite The past the time you
• 1:07:07
  also, the host of a DND actual play podcast.
• 1:07:12
  Yep, I have no idea what this means.
• 1:07:13
  I just have this in my notes and known as the low armor cast
• 1:07:19
  podcast. So talk us through exactly what
• 1:07:22
  is a actual play podcast. And it can be, it can be quite a
• 1:07:28
  range. So low armor cats, actual play
• 1:07:30
  podcast means that we are legitimately playing the DMV
• 1:07:33
  game just like you. Jion likes a a live stream on
• 1:07:36
  Twitch. We're actually playing d and e
• 1:07:39
  but the difference between actual virtue of y'all like
• 1:07:43
  virtually I know in the podcast version because those are with
• 1:07:48
  people that I like live with, or were already in my quarantine
• 1:07:51
  bubble. Okay, I'm physically, there were
• 1:07:53
  all in a room. We've got mics all in it.
• 1:07:56
  It's not my favorite thing to mix but, um, we're all in a
• 1:08:01
  room, we've got mics. So it's very much a moment of
• 1:08:04
  playing D&D. Like a table would play the only
• 1:08:07
  difference with actual play versus live play.
• 1:08:10
  Is that actual play? I go in and edit it after the
• 1:08:14
  fact. So, a lot of the confusion, a
• 1:08:18
  lot of the discussion of strategies that don't go
• 1:08:20
  anywhere. I trim that down.
• 1:08:22
  So we might play for two hours and then the audio from it, -
• 1:08:26
  the - the intro and outro and bumpers and insert adhered
• 1:08:31
  whatever you might actually only have like an hour and ten hour
• 1:08:34
  and 18 minutes of content. I've trimmed a lot of stuff that
• 1:08:38
  would be kind of filler time or or discussions that, you know,
• 1:08:44
  just aren't that entertaining or aren't really kind of focused
• 1:08:48
  around the gameplay in the story and get rid of it.
• 1:08:52
  And so that's that can get really extreme those people that
• 1:08:54
  get very close to radio drama with their actual place and it
• 1:08:58
  can be very light. There's people much like most of
• 1:09:00
  critical role where it was just It was just what was being
• 1:09:05
  played, they didn't they didn't trim out anything in the middle.
• 1:09:07
  So if they had a 20 minute discussion about what they
• 1:09:10
  should do next, you just listen to that versus me.
• 1:09:13
  I would pick the part that was the plan and then, that would be
• 1:09:17
  all you would hear. You wouldn't hear all the plans
• 1:09:18
  that just didn't go awry. So you see here the table talk
• 1:09:22
  but not that much. Is there like a video version of
• 1:09:25
  the podcast or is it just Audio Only or it's just Audio?
• 1:09:30
  Only I am that's actually Lee something that we may set up a
• 1:09:36
  video version for YouTube because I do want to bring them
• 1:09:41
  to YouTube but I don't want to put in the time to make hour and
• 1:09:44
  a half long YouTube videos to go with an audio track and you know
• 1:09:50
  we're changing the location that we record them and there's a
• 1:09:54
  more permanent room and in that more permanent room, I can take
• 1:09:58
  a handful of you know like cell phone smartphone cameras.
• 1:10:03
  Or GoPros or what have you and kind of set them up to sort of
• 1:10:07
  Auto record and then mix that together.
• 1:10:11
  I haven't decided whether or not I'm going to do that because I
• 1:10:15
  already a have the two other campaigns that I'm running and
• 1:10:19
  that are on Twitch and be, I don't know.
• 1:10:22
  I haven't seen a good test for the crossover of the people who
• 1:10:27
  listen to D and D in podcast form versus the people who watch
• 1:10:30
  it and twitch form. I cannot Believe that he's gotta
• 1:10:34
  call. He's got a call.
• 1:10:36
  Yep, don't worry, it's done. I'm not using this anymore.
• 1:10:40
  I should just turn this off. Now I was using my cellphone as
• 1:10:44
  the camera but the twitch the there's a whole separate D&D
• 1:10:54
  podcast listening community that are not the same as the people
• 1:10:58
  that watch it on Twitch or watch it on YouTube there.
• 1:11:01
  Crossover of course, but there is a Group of people that when
• 1:11:05
  they listen to D and D they just listen to it.
• 1:11:08
  Yeah don't and so I wanted to I that's another form of in my
• 1:11:13
  entire life is video games and DD like there's and I guess
• 1:11:17
  nerdcore music. There's nothing but Niche
• 1:11:19
  interests for for for people that love going to conventions
• 1:11:24
  for me. The reason I asked you that
• 1:11:26
  question as well. Is that?
• 1:11:27
  Like, I'm kind of intrigued by like how the game would be
• 1:11:32
  different? And in terms of, you know, the
• 1:11:37
  audience kind of experience with a Audio Only version versus a
• 1:11:42
  video visual version and is interesting that you say that
• 1:11:45
  there's two distinct audiences, that makes sense to me.
• 1:11:48
  Because I imagine that for a lot of the people listening to the
• 1:11:51
  audio version, they want that kind of experience where they
• 1:11:56
  don't have. They wouldn't like imagine it,
• 1:12:00
  you know what I mean, more than maybe like the people that
• 1:12:03
  visually want to say it. And I think that to be fair you
• 1:12:05
  probably make the same argument of podcasting in general, you
• 1:12:09
  know? I mean, it's a very different
• 1:12:10
  experience. I got imagine listening to my
• 1:12:11
  podcast must be very different via audio platforms versus the
• 1:12:16
  the video version. But yeah, I don't know if I can
• 1:12:21
  actually speak to this more directly to so high rollers
• 1:12:26
  which again I mentioned earlier. As a very popular twitch stream
• 1:12:31
  they originally were twitch only like that's where they lived.
• 1:12:34
  And then eventually they got a YouTube channel that uploaded
• 1:12:38
  there vods later and so they had twitch and they had that and
• 1:12:44
  then they had a new cast member that sort of became their
• 1:12:46
  regular cast member, who told them you know with a little bit
• 1:12:51
  of work we can do this as a podcast as well and we just take
• 1:12:55
  all this audio and then do It won't be the nicest sounding
• 1:12:59
  podcast, because it'll be, you know, over over-the-air audio
• 1:13:03
  voice audio. But, but it like, we can do this
• 1:13:09
  really well and get an audience that wasn't there.
• 1:13:12
  And when he was interviewed about it, he's like, yeah, we
• 1:13:16
  have our, you know, our their views end up after vods on
• 1:13:20
  Twitch and such and and then YouTube, they end up having
• 1:13:23
  somewhere in the neighborhood of probably about 40 to 50,000
• 1:13:26
  people that watch every episode in.
• 1:13:28
  Video form and he's like, yeah, there's another, like 10,000
• 1:13:31
  15,000 people that listen to us in podcast form, those cannot be
• 1:13:36
  the same people. And as, you know, or as, as
• 1:13:40
  people who research podcast now, podcasts advertising is like the
• 1:13:44
  most money to advertising that you could possibly get.
• 1:13:47
  So that was a really high Revenue stream.
• 1:13:49
  And so part of his job now weekly is to upload their
• 1:13:53
  episodes and everything to kind of add to the value of all the
• 1:13:57
  GM. Of the players kind of
• 1:13:59
  collaborating. Yeah podcast definitely more
• 1:14:03
  performative package. Where it's just like here's a
• 1:14:06
  passive way to receive this twitch stream a lot looser, a
• 1:14:10
  lot more, whatever the audience is kind of vibing on and also in
• 1:14:18
  my mind a lot less efficient to run a game, I can run a game
• 1:14:21
  very efficiently in a podcast, I cannot on Twitch, it's very much
• 1:14:25
  like in the moment loose and Goofy.
• 1:14:28
  And the campaign, actually, it affects the narration of the
• 1:14:31
  campaign to, it takes longer to accomplish things on Twitch than
• 1:14:34
  it does in the podcast. How would you explain Dungeons
• 1:14:41
  and Dragons to someone who's never played it before and maybe
• 1:14:44
  has a very basic understanding of it?
• 1:14:48
  So, basically me, how would you explain tenses and Dragons to
• 1:14:51
  me? So Dungeons & Dragons is a
• 1:14:56
  collaborative storytelling. improvisational game that has a
• 1:15:01
  framework of rules that are Secondary to storytelling with
• 1:15:10
  your friends and using your imagination and having fun, that
• 1:15:14
  is what D and D is. It is literally a story world
• 1:15:20
  that people create and play in and lots of people, you know,
• 1:15:24
  people don't play Dungeons & Dragons only in the world's
• 1:15:29
  created by wizards of Coast Wizards of the Coast, the
• 1:15:32
  Publishers of it, you can apply that rule framework to any That
• 1:15:37
  you want as they as a dungeon master or main story teller or
• 1:15:41
  Gamemaster, or what have you, and then the best version of D
• 1:15:47
  and D is simply your storytelling.
• 1:15:50
  It an audience, giving them things, or at your table, giving
• 1:15:53
  them things to play with, and your players use their
• 1:15:55
  imagination and story tell themselves back at you.
• 1:15:59
  And that's what it is. It's like an improv game.
• 1:16:01
  Anyone that's watched improv. Theater has watched the majority
• 1:16:05
  of D&D happen. Or what D&D is happen happening
• 1:16:10
  - the dice rolling part, and the rule said that sort of gives
• 1:16:14
  mechanics to the things that we can't just so easily, judge and
• 1:16:19
  narrate. So, the fighting and like the
• 1:16:21
  doing things. But what you do, how you do it,
• 1:16:25
  that's entirely your choice. That's all imagination.
• 1:16:28
  And that's why I love. I got to say, I never understood
• 1:16:32
  the, the hate towards it so of any 80s and stuff.
• 1:16:36
  When Well, you know, like when when being a nerd really geek
• 1:16:40
  wasn't cool. I mean, yeah, it's interesting
• 1:16:43
  to be because when you just look at the Indy for what it is, I
• 1:16:47
  mean, it's it's a brilliant game for a kid, you know, I mean,
• 1:16:51
  it's a fantastic game to play because it really forces you to
• 1:16:54
  use your imagination and kids do that naturally.
• 1:16:56
  Anyway, so it makes sense that it's popular because of that
• 1:17:01
  everybody has played D&D in their child, or put our use the
• 1:17:05
  same to yes lady in there. Childhood that that they would
• 1:17:09
  use to play are actual DD. It's literally just coming up
• 1:17:14
  with scenarios in your head and playing Mount.
• 1:17:16
  We've all played with toys and set up scenes and things like
• 1:17:20
  that did. Did Europe have the satanic
• 1:17:22
  Panic with the India that they had in the 80s in the US and
• 1:17:25
  early 90s? I have no idea.
• 1:17:28
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:17:30
  So that was part of it. Is that one of the things that
• 1:17:33
  was difficult for D and D to get going, is that in the air?
• 1:17:37
  These especially by the mid-80s and then into the early 90s, the
• 1:17:41
  u.s. at least and probably partials of Europe because this
• 1:17:45
  how media goes had a big kind of conservative move going on our
• 1:17:50
  president. At the time was Ronald Reagan.
• 1:17:53
  So big sort of like conservative kind of Christian values and
• 1:17:57
  whenever that happens, much like violence in video games or
• 1:18:00
  what-have-you. Yeah, we're rocking music.
• 1:18:02
  The Devil's music D and D because it was such a strange
• 1:18:06
  thing because it was all based based on imaginations and
• 1:18:08
  admittedly because of the covers of the books, had demons and
• 1:18:11
  dragons and monsters on them. Um, the Indy was lumped in as a
• 1:18:16
  gateway to Satanism and a gateway to all these bad
• 1:18:20
  behaviors and like legitimate Network news, and like 60
• 1:18:25
  minutes, which is a news editorial show here like all
• 1:18:29
  these massive tens of millions of parents are watching this,
• 1:18:32
  would give time to people talking about how dangerous And
• 1:18:37
  how risky playing this imagination Fantasy game is so
• 1:18:45
  so they're absolutely with something that was shutting it
• 1:18:48
  down much earlier than just separately.
• 1:18:52
  From it being kind of like a geeky or a nerdy kind of silly
• 1:18:56
  thing to do. Especially once you get past
• 1:18:58
  childhood because it is it's a very it's fun but it's a very
• 1:19:01
  silly thing to be like let's play imagination game forever.
• 1:19:07
  And, and it's a very silly thing and it creates silly scenarios
• 1:19:11
  which are all over the place in performative D&D and into H and
• 1:19:15
  podcasts and YouTube. And, but the reality is, is that
• 1:19:20
  now, that we're in this sort of world where a lot of people
• 1:19:24
  could watch D&D, like you can watch critical role.
• 1:19:27
  You can watch Dimension 20, you can watch or you can listen to
• 1:19:32
  things like NAD, pod or Dungeons and daddies and things like
• 1:19:35
  that. You can hear what it actually is
• 1:19:39
  and what it actually is, it sounds like a bunch of friends
• 1:19:42
  sitting around at a table at a pub, like essentially telling
• 1:19:47
  each other stories and enter and visiting and entertaining each
• 1:19:50
  other. Just doing it, fictionally
• 1:19:52
  rather than in the world. That's all that really is.
• 1:19:55
  And then occasionally the dungeon master the game master
• 1:19:57
  will say, I need you to roll a dice and it needs to be this
• 1:20:00
  level or above. So there's like a bit of
• 1:20:03
  gamification man mechanic but that part especially now, with
• 1:20:06
  all the The apps and tools so easy so much simpler than it
• 1:20:11
  used to be to just be like oh you've never played before.
• 1:20:14
  Here's this walk through the character creation Wizard.
• 1:20:18
  And then I will tell you is the DM when you need to interact
• 1:20:21
  with that at all. Otherwise, don't worry about it
• 1:20:24
  too much. It's just a fun way to kind of
• 1:20:25
  Define who your character is, but you don't need to understand
• 1:20:29
  it. You just need to understand, I'm
• 1:20:30
  going to say things, and then you can do whatever you want.
• 1:20:32
  You can literally do whatever. And I'll just tell you how that
• 1:20:36
  happens. Or make you roll dice to see if
• 1:20:38
  you succeed or fail. This conversation is actually
• 1:20:41
  making me. Want to play the game?
• 1:20:43
  Yeah, it's working. I recommend everybody gives it a
• 1:20:46
  try. It's so easy and fun.
• 1:20:49
  And anyone that's played video games is going to understand the
• 1:20:52
  rules eventually pretty quickly because they're all very like
• 1:20:56
  RPGs are based Western RPGs, Diablo Baldur's Gate, all that
• 1:21:01
  stuff is based on Dungeons and Dragons mechanic.
• 1:21:05
  Also some of the most like, some of the biggest RPGs like Star
• 1:21:10
  Wars To the Old Republic back in the back in, like the original
• 1:21:13
  Xbox era, what would be happening is that you would
• 1:21:17
  attack someone. And then behind the scenes,
• 1:21:20
  where the player can't see a, the computer would actually be
• 1:21:23
  rolling a D20 to see if the attack was successful.
• 1:21:27
  Like a D&D campaign, just all behind a pretty computer image
• 1:21:32
  instead. And so, like, like people have
• 1:21:35
  played this game, they just don't know it yet and when they
• 1:21:38
  do it and they do it with friends.
• 1:21:40
  AIDS and they go light, you know, they they all agree this
• 1:21:43
  like we're here to have fun first in the end they find it a
• 1:21:47
  lot of people really like it and then some people it's not their
• 1:21:49
  jam and that's fine but a lot of people really like it is that as
• 1:21:52
  a fun thing and it can be kind of whatever you want.
• 1:21:55
  Whatever the group is interested in.
• 1:21:58
  Why do you think D and D is still so popular?
• 1:22:01
  I mean, it's been around for 40 years.
• 1:22:03
  Now, it's kind of amazing to think about coming up, coming
• 1:22:05
  up, on 45, coming up on four or five years, OSHA?
• 1:22:08
  Maybe, maybe maybe it was the 70s.
• 1:22:11
  Then okay, I didn't know that it didn't, I wouldn't say got
• 1:22:13
  popular in the 70s. Okay, it's just that's when it
• 1:22:16
  started. I would say the 80s.
• 1:22:18
  Like stranger things. Is very accurate.
• 1:22:21
  Yeah. As a as a as a representation of
• 1:22:23
  when it started really bleeding into the pop culture, Zeitgeist
• 1:22:27
  as a thing that exists. But yeah, so I would say that D
• 1:22:33
  and D is popular despite its earlier versions.
• 1:22:38
  It's early versions are very hard to To play like I I've been
• 1:22:42
  playing tabletop for 15 years. I don't understand.
• 1:22:47
  Like our, it's not that, I don't understand, I don't enjoy it
• 1:22:50
  all. Playing the first versions of
• 1:22:52
  D&D, they are very mechanical. They're like wargaming, they're
• 1:22:56
  much more like miniature wargaming, which makes sense
• 1:22:58
  because they were made the guy that made DD Gary gygax was a
• 1:23:02
  big war gaming fan, so they're very math Centric.
• 1:23:06
  They're very, they're not, they're not even what you see
• 1:23:08
  in. Stranger things where kid is
• 1:23:10
  like, Reading is like, and you're walking through a tunnel
• 1:23:12
  and you see a Gore guy is like, what do you do?
• 1:23:15
  Like they're much more, like discussing strategy D&D I think,
• 1:23:20
  as funny as it is, the thing that suppress it in the 80s that
• 1:23:25
  satanic Panic. That, that really that really
• 1:23:31
  like, oh, what's this weird? Like nerdy or French culture
• 1:23:34
  thing is sort of what held it together as being the ongoing?
• 1:23:40
  Tabletop that like this sort of like Benchmark and brand of
• 1:23:44
  tabletop because it's shorthand much like Kleenex is shorthand
• 1:23:47
  for tissue D. And D is shorthand for all
• 1:23:50
  tabletop games. There's tons of companies,
• 1:23:53
  making different role, playing games like that but a lot of
• 1:23:56
  people just, I'll call it D and D that Fringe stuff really kept
• 1:24:00
  it in the media. And then it was kind of the same
• 1:24:04
  level of popularity for a long time.
• 1:24:07
  Very much. You'd see it in game stores.
• 1:24:08
  The occasional comic book store Occasionally there.
• 1:24:11
  Be some kids playing it in a public library, not huge.
• 1:24:14
  And then the internet happened. And the moment that people
• 1:24:18
  started being able to see, D&D being played or see tabletop
• 1:24:22
  being played, it blew up in popularity also with a bunch of
• 1:24:25
  tools to make it easier right? Like to make character creation
• 1:24:30
  easier to make interaction and then digitally like I play so
• 1:24:36
  much T and d right now because I can do it on Twitch.
• 1:24:38
  I couldn't play three local All campaigns almost weekly.
• 1:24:42
  If I was just in the Seattle area, it would be exhausting to
• 1:24:46
  drive out. Go over to a friend's house make
• 1:24:48
  that time but because I can just sign in you can just play.
• 1:24:51
  So I think d and e is more popular because of that.
• 1:24:54
  But people love telling stories. And so, it just had to survive
• 1:24:58
  long enough for people to see that.
• 1:25:00
  That's what the game was. And the moment they see what
• 1:25:02
  that's the game is. They get excited about it,
• 1:25:06
  they're like oh I can just tell stories.
• 1:25:08
  I can just be I can be Aragorn Aragorn from from Lord of the
• 1:25:12
  Rings or I can be Batman if I want to or I can be this and
• 1:25:17
  kind of take my, do my own, take on it or I can just be a foolish
• 1:25:20
  character and do my own take on it.
• 1:25:22
  That's what makes D&D. I think exciting is because you
• 1:25:26
  can take the stories that you hear, and then re tell them your
• 1:25:29
  own way as a player and then the GM of Course the game master the
• 1:25:35
  dungeon master we can we can just create Whole World's whole
• 1:25:39
  fantasy worlds like you would as a as an author and just be like,
• 1:25:43
  oh there was the continents, and here's the politics.
• 1:25:45
  And here's the, the, the magic and how this works in the world.
• 1:25:49
  And then just give that to in a captive audience to play in.
• 1:25:54
  Thanks for sharing now you yeah, you are nerdcore rapper.
• 1:26:00
  We mentioned that again in the Preamble, under the name.
• 1:26:03
  Death Star. Yeah.
• 1:26:05
  They're Stars the main thing? Yep.
• 1:26:06
  What exactly is nerdcore and how did you get into this?
• 1:26:10
  We're just going through, like going through my interest is
• 1:26:13
  like going through its like are you lonely?
• 1:26:15
  Do you need? I fully I'm fully onboard for
• 1:26:20
  dunking on myself for being a super big because It'd be a geek
• 1:26:24
  is cool. Now it's not even though it is
• 1:26:26
  now it is now but like I didn't I was this way you know 20 years
• 1:26:33
  ago so it wasn't but it meets it me too by the way I just said
• 1:26:39
  all right I grew up in the 2000s and I was alternative crowd and
• 1:26:43
  it's just weird seeing how now being a geek being nerd.
• 1:26:47
  Being alternative is now accepted by everyone and you
• 1:26:50
  just see so many people being Hypocrites and you're like, How
• 1:26:53
  the tables done in turn. Thank you, Millennials and gen Z
• 1:26:58
  for doing that. It's been very nice to like let
• 1:27:01
  Millennials and gen Z sort of run with.
• 1:27:03
  Yeah. But what if we weren't dicks
• 1:27:05
  about what people liked, what if we just let people like what
• 1:27:08
  they like? But anyway nerdcore, hip-hop is.
• 1:27:12
  It's a genre based hip-hop. The best way to describe it.
• 1:27:17
  Is it Cindy hip-hop about things that have large fan cultures
• 1:27:22
  usually Lee or that would have historically commonly be person
• 1:27:27
  has been prescribed to geeky or nerdy things anymore.
• 1:27:30
  It's hard to say geek culture nerd culture.
• 1:27:33
  Because there's you know, Marvel movies aren't geek culture.
• 1:27:36
  No one in the MCU. No one thinks that, you know,
• 1:27:40
  Iron Man in some movie Just for nerds or The Avengers are, you
• 1:27:44
  know, that kind of thing. But the way that nerdcore is
• 1:27:49
  specifically different as hip-hop and it kind of gets used
• 1:27:52
  to apply to all All geek music but it definitely hip-hop.
• 1:27:57
  Is that the focus is a bit more on that rather than just being a
• 1:28:02
  normal hip hop song which might references you know, Nintendo or
• 1:28:06
  might reference you know, us superhero or a samurai film or
• 1:28:10
  such the focus is on the fandom culture, the geeky, or the
• 1:28:15
  nerdy, or the intellectual thing, and that's what's
• 1:28:17
  important. As subject matter of the song as
• 1:28:21
  either, the songs just about that.
• 1:28:23
  That, or it's a filter through, which someone expresses their
• 1:28:27
  emotions using metaphors and imagery of that as a thing.
• 1:28:34
  So, there's a common question of is this nerdcore amongst the
• 1:28:39
  community, which is, is something like Del the Funky
• 1:28:43
  Homosapien 's Deltron 3030 album, which is a concept album
• 1:28:48
  where he's a cyborg in the future and it's all science,
• 1:28:52
  fiction heavy. Is that nerdcore because Del the
• 1:28:56
  Funky Homosapien usually doesn't do that.
• 1:29:00
  But he did it for that album and the answer is gray because genre
• 1:29:05
  labels are always gray. But yeah.
• 1:29:07
  Essentially if you like if you want to hear raps about video
• 1:29:10
  games that you like or shows that you like or or things that
• 1:29:14
  reference anime, that you like that's the genre for you hip-hop
• 1:29:18
  nerdcore. It's very big genre.
• 1:29:23
  And it's got like a lot of it's got funnily enough, bring it all
• 1:29:26
  the way back to content creation.
• 1:29:28
  It's got to kind of Vibes, there's the classic musician
• 1:29:32
  nerdcore, which is like a band or an artist that would like to
• 1:29:36
  tour and go do live shows and release albums and EPs and then
• 1:29:40
  there's YouTube nerdcore, which is like a YouTube creator that
• 1:29:44
  creates a song about a video game that's popular at the
• 1:29:46
  moment, creates a video about it and then writes the rap music to
• 1:29:50
  go behind it. And those are two very different
• 1:29:53
  Camps of artists because one is less about being the sort of
• 1:29:58
  classic musician and the other is more about being the YouTube
• 1:30:03
  content creator that just uses that just creates these nerdcore
• 1:30:06
  raps with it, and they don't really intersect very heavily at
• 1:30:10
  all, they're very different groups.
• 1:30:12
  There's only a couple kind of crossovers that both do the
• 1:30:15
  YouTube thing and live tour, one of the best and worst things
• 1:30:22
  about Washington. Oh, that's a good question.
• 1:30:26
  Best thing about Seattle, Washington is The nature the
• 1:30:33
  environment like like the positioning.
• 1:30:38
  We've got, we're kind of like a light UK.
• 1:30:41
  We're kind of like a light England as far as.
• 1:30:45
  As far as like, the look, anyone who's been been like, who's came
• 1:30:50
  from, like, England, or Scotland, or Ireland, kind of
• 1:30:54
  recognizes the greenery and everything.
• 1:30:56
  We're less dreary Seattle's known for its rain.
• 1:30:59
  It doesn't have real rain. It's also known For it's
• 1:31:02
  overcast, and it has about 30 more days of clouds than your
• 1:31:06
  average state in the u.s. that is an in California.
• 1:31:09
  But the difference is, is that it's all Evergreen.
• 1:31:12
  We have very few, deciduous trees.
• 1:31:15
  It's almost all Evergreens Pines, like, fir trees stuff
• 1:31:19
  like that, and it's got Rolling Hills and mountains.
• 1:31:23
  We've got two mountain ranges that are in sight of Seattle.
• 1:31:28
  And yeah, it's just beautiful. It's so beautiful.
• 1:31:31
  So that's the best thing. The worst thing.
• 1:31:39
  I'm sorry to ask this but we haven't.
• 1:31:41
  We didn't really discuss it. Are you comfortable with me
• 1:31:44
  getting not so much? Are you comfortable with me
• 1:31:49
  getting gently like social or political on this or even
• 1:31:53
  something you like to do? Do it?
• 1:31:55
  I'm not gonna hit you with any surprise white supremacy or
• 1:31:57
  anything like that who I am but I mean it's too extreme, I'll
• 1:32:03
  cut it but like, yeah, sure. Worst thing about Seattle for me
• 1:32:09
  is that Seattle is a very liberal.
• 1:32:12
  Like, what would be seen? As let me use more Universal,
• 1:32:16
  leftist City but not really, and I think everyone can identify
• 1:32:21
  this kind of kind of politics where it's like, there's a lot
• 1:32:26
  of talk about policy and acceptance and welcoming open
• 1:32:31
  arm things and Progressive policies.
• 1:32:34
  But when it comes down to money and And policy.
• 1:32:38
  It's surprisingly less that way. So if it doesn't affect money,
• 1:32:41
  it is that way. There's a lot of gender and and
• 1:32:46
  walks of life acceptance here. There's a lot of like probe has
• 1:32:50
  the but when it comes to taking care of the homeless problem or
• 1:32:54
  maybe, you know, taking care of a homeless problem or making
• 1:32:57
  sure that it doesn't cost too much to have kids or making sure
• 1:33:01
  that rent isn't too high so that people can afford to live those,
• 1:33:05
  don't do those. Not implemented in a progressive
• 1:33:09
  fashion or in an Outreach fashion and it is heartbreaking
• 1:33:13
  to watch because the city is so very similarly to San Francisco.
• 1:33:17
  We are so Proud of our of our Progressive values.
• 1:33:22
  But at the same time, not following through on it and it
• 1:33:25
  feels very hypocritical. And it also just infuriates me
• 1:33:31
  because I'm like, we're so close.
• 1:33:34
  We have the talking points. We just need the action but
• 1:33:38
  capitalism capitalism going to capitalize.
• 1:33:41
  And it does not, it does not allow for a lot of those kind of
• 1:33:45
  hard Outreach policy. So, that is the truly
• 1:33:47
  frustrating thing is being in. Downtown Seattle and seeing
• 1:33:50
  people that the city on the surface or in press, would say
• 1:33:53
  that it would help but it does not help it just shuffles them
• 1:33:56
  around and moves them big about the homeless population here
• 1:34:00
  because this is a terrible City to be homeless student and it
• 1:34:05
  drives me nuts because we don't have a lot of them.
• 1:34:07
  We could house them, we could take care of those people that
• 1:34:09
  need it better and we just don't.
• 1:34:11
  And so that's the worst thing. I know that's really heavy and
• 1:34:14
  not like geek culture or something fun.
• 1:34:16
  Like I hate all the Starbucks but that's the thing.
• 1:34:20
  That's what I was going to say night.
• 1:34:21
  Thank you for for being so honest.
• 1:34:23
  I always like to I ask people about where they come from and
• 1:34:28
  it's intriguing because you know, some people are very very
• 1:34:30
  honest in their answer and they'll say the good and the bad
• 1:34:33
  and I'm really go for it. Other people bit more
• 1:34:36
  conservative with their answers and I guess they don't want to
• 1:34:40
  be controversial, maybe more, maybe they just don't have
• 1:34:42
  anything bad to say which is fair enough, you know, which is
• 1:34:45
  nice if that's the king. Yeah.
• 1:34:49
  Always, I always like to be very clear.
• 1:34:51
  I deal with a lot of artists nationally, your and in and
• 1:34:55
  there are a lot of, you know, people of color in nerdcore.
• 1:34:58
  Hip-hop, which makes sense, it's hip-hop, but, and they talked
• 1:35:03
  about coming here and everything, and I have to
• 1:35:05
  explain to them. I'm like, this seems like that.
• 1:35:07
  But this is a very, very, it's a very on the surface, very
• 1:35:13
  Progressive City and then underneath it, it's a very kind
• 1:35:15
  of like fiscally conservative, not used to a lot of difference.
• 1:35:19
  Like there's, you know, it's a big city, but like you're not
• 1:35:22
  going to see a lot of cultures here.
• 1:35:25
  So all the Democrats in generally in Washington.
• 1:35:28
  And what are the Democrats typically in in?
• 1:35:32
  What? Yeah, yeah, we get into this
• 1:35:35
  too. Yeah, Democrat.
• 1:35:36
  So Washington is really everyone thinks of Washington in Seattle
• 1:35:41
  and there are 100 percent, right?
• 1:35:42
  That's where most of the population is.
• 1:35:44
  There's another kind of sister city about 30 minutes or sorry
• 1:35:47
  about. I'm sorry.
• 1:35:48
  I I realize I just It's a stupid question.
• 1:35:51
  Of course it is Washington. Yeah so everyone thinks about it
• 1:35:54
  being Seattle however your that's not a stupid question.
• 1:35:58
  Seattle King King County which contains the other one, a bunch
• 1:36:03
  of suburbs and then this County directly south of it which
• 1:36:05
  screens and other city and a bunch of suburbs.
• 1:36:07
  That's where the Democratic party's basis here.
• 1:36:11
  The rest of the state is conservative so as far as land
• 1:36:14
  mass goes 85% of Washington, state is conservative As far as
• 1:36:19
  population goes about two-thirds of, it is Democrat.
• 1:36:24
  Now, what that means is that you have a state that has a large
• 1:36:28
  population of people that deeply disagree with what I consider is
• 1:36:32
  a very Centrist Democratic view. But very, very middle, Democrat
• 1:36:39
  view of Seattle, like of the Seattle area.
• 1:36:44
  And they are in the areas where all of our hydroelectric is all
• 1:36:48
  of our exports. Biggest exporter of hops in the
• 1:36:51
  United States for beer and such and so they have a lot of like
• 1:36:58
  functional power in their counties and then we have a
• 1:37:01
  dense population in a city of Democrats.
• 1:37:04
  Liberals leftists that do that. That's why during like the black
• 1:37:09
  lives matter protests, there was the whole thing where Seattle
• 1:37:12
  had its Capitol Hill demilitarized zone.
• 1:37:17
  It's a little like protest area can remember it's Jack same
• 1:37:20
  where they held that for two weeks, if that had been in any
• 1:37:23
  other part of Washington they're just would have been a breach
• 1:37:25
  that night and it would have been dealt with but because it
• 1:37:27
  was in Seattle, they kind of had to play games politics.
• 1:37:30
  But again Democrats in Seattle are very much like their their
• 1:37:36
  their I don't want to use the term wealthy Elite because
• 1:37:40
  that's been pushed up higher, but they're comfortable
• 1:37:43
  middle-class Democrats. Which means that a lot of times
• 1:37:46
  they have problems with like the full commitment Two things.
• 1:37:50
  And though I don't judge them for that, it's just create the
• 1:37:54
  political Style versus there. So yeah, Washington is
• 1:37:58
  definitely on the left of the United States are Seattle.
• 1:38:02
  Specially is on the left of the United States, political
• 1:38:04
  Spectrum, but it still has its still very much in our kind of
• 1:38:08
  key. Like, how much would it cost to
• 1:38:10
  just deal with this problem? A little too much, let's push it
• 1:38:13
  off another year, kind of kind of politic and that's very much
• 1:38:17
  true in our voter base but yeah. We're a blue State.
• 1:38:20
  As we call it, you know, voted for Biden, as a state, as a
• 1:38:25
  whole voted for our Governor's. Democrat, our two senators or
• 1:38:29
  democrat, all of the Seattle areas representatives and the
• 1:38:32
  county that we have Democrats. That's our party here because
• 1:38:38
  the conservative party in the u.s. is really extreme.
• 1:38:42
  Now, I'm going to, I'm going to be nice and say it's gotten
• 1:38:45
  pretty intense over on the conservative side in the u.s.
• 1:38:48
  So we This is pretty good number.
• 1:38:51
  I gotta say it's very confusing because obviously, when Trump
• 1:38:56
  got in, yeah, I would agree with that assessment.
• 1:38:59
  He did get a really extreme, but at the same time, it really did
• 1:39:03
  seem like a lot of that time. His own party were not fully
• 1:39:07
  behind him, which makes complete sense.
• 1:39:11
  I'm not, like, trying to like, you know, yeah, disagree with
• 1:39:13
  that. But the same time, it's like the
• 1:39:16
  only time I can think of, in recent times where there's been
• 1:39:18
  so much, CH conflict within the party.
• 1:39:21
  You know what I mean? As and we funnily enough, we've
• 1:39:24
  had a similar thing with our equivalent in the UK, the
• 1:39:27
  conservative party in more recent years, where like they
• 1:39:31
  wouldn't be behind that particular leader.
• 1:39:33
  And there was like older older, generations of politicians are
• 1:39:37
  disagreeing with what the younger, more progressives are
• 1:39:39
  saying and stuff and is very intriguing because, you know,
• 1:39:44
  fundamentally you are all supposed to agree on the same
• 1:39:47
  things, but then you find yourselves.
• 1:39:49
  Secreting quite quite massively. Well, yeah, I mean that's true
• 1:39:55
  of the democratic party in the u.s. there's the left side of it
• 1:39:58
  which is like, right? Yes, Universal basic income,
• 1:40:02
  Universal Health Care which is weird that we still don't have
• 1:40:06
  all those sorts of things and then you have the kind of more
• 1:40:10
  Centrist Democrats, but the leadership and everything is
• 1:40:13
  more in Step. It was so weird when Trump got
• 1:40:15
  elected and the Republican party for the first time in my
• 1:40:18
  lifetime. I'm and honestly the first time
• 1:40:20
  in a long time, since since the Vietnam War era since the 60s
• 1:40:24
  and 70s actually wasn't in unified lockstep, the
• 1:40:28
  conservative party in America at one of its biggest strengths,
• 1:40:31
  was that everybody agreed on everything all the time
• 1:40:35
  politically, as far as politicians win and it was what
• 1:40:39
  made them so effective as a political party is that they
• 1:40:42
  pick their leader, they knew their Senators.
• 1:40:45
  They all had the same talking points, it was Ho it was full
• 1:40:48
  Unity. And then the the Democratic
• 1:40:51
  party which is more left was the party of we're all arguing
• 1:40:55
  amongst ourselves constantly and we don't like this person or we
• 1:40:58
  do like this person and then Trump got elected and he'd like
• 1:41:02
  it made sense. Why George w--?
• 1:41:05
  Bush was a perfect example of sort of like the Republican
• 1:41:07
  party at its peak positioning where all of its cabinet members
• 1:41:11
  and everything were were working to get their goals done.
• 1:41:15
  And and the messaging was on point from that side.
• 1:41:19
  I'd and it was very branded for their voter base and everything
• 1:41:23
  was in there. And as much as Donald Trump,
• 1:41:25
  absolutely is a conservative as far as like the policies, he
• 1:41:28
  might Implement and stuff like that.
• 1:41:30
  He is a wild card that they can't trust.
• 1:41:32
  They couldn't trust to be on brand or on message and it
• 1:41:35
  showed time after time again in his term, but they understood
• 1:41:39
  that the cult of personality candidate had a large fashion.
• 1:41:43
  It base, a larger base, a base that would have beat almost
• 1:41:47
  every other candidate in. Previous American elections.
• 1:41:51
  He lost this election because of how many people went out, but he
• 1:41:54
  put up numbers that were higher than so many candidates
• 1:41:59
  previously and so huge cult of personality.
• 1:42:03
  So we really tapped into not my favorite thing in the American
• 1:42:07
  Zeitgeist, but a piece of the American Zeitgeist and ran with
• 1:42:11
  it in the Republican party was just sort of stymied being like
• 1:42:14
  what do we do with this and and then realize something very
• 1:42:19
  nice. Nice which is that they can
• 1:42:20
  verbally denounce something but not do anything about it and
• 1:42:24
  it's fine. Like the population is too tired
• 1:42:26
  and busy to care enough to do it and actually give them
• 1:42:30
  repercussions. So that's what they then shifted
• 1:42:33
  to toward the back end. Was this is bad words from this,
• 1:42:36
  man. All right.
• 1:42:38
  Continue on and then that's it. Like that's all they had.
• 1:42:43
  One thing I find very interesting about Trump that
• 1:42:46
  people or at least I haven't seen Big covered a lot in the
• 1:42:50
  media, if at all, and I mentioned this on the podcast
• 1:42:54
  before is the fact that I'm surprised people didn't see this
• 1:42:58
  coming as well. If you look at his political
• 1:43:01
  affiliations over the last 20, 30 years, he has flip-flopped
• 1:43:07
  between Republican and conservative and not just like,
• 1:43:10
  for a small period of time, we're talking years.
• 1:43:12
  Yeah, years of time. Yeah.
• 1:43:13
  Like I feel there's a big chunk in the 90s where he was with the
• 1:43:18
  Democrats I believe. Oh yeah.
• 1:43:19
  And it makes sense. You know, business people in
• 1:43:21
  America, you know, this is a same exactly the same in the UK.
• 1:43:24
  You, you, you back certain political parties because you
• 1:43:28
  want to get certain laws passed or get certain things, you know,
• 1:43:33
  maybe smaller trade barriers or barriers to entry or whatever.
• 1:43:38
  You want to invest in invoke change in some way to benefit
• 1:43:41
  your business. I get that right.
• 1:43:44
  Yeah, he did it so many times. It's kind of unprecedented
• 1:43:47
  normally like, Is this person will stick with one particular?
• 1:43:52
  Yeah. Generally a party and then there
• 1:43:54
  might change on some positions. Yeah.
• 1:43:57
  Like a big, a big one. A big app.
• 1:43:59
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:44:01
  Yeah. No.
• 1:44:02
  It wasn't covered a lot after he was the Republican candidate.
• 1:44:07
  Because so if you were to deconstruct the kinds of things
• 1:44:12
  that allowed him to align with the Democratic party versus the
• 1:44:15
  kinds of things that allowed him to align with the Republican
• 1:44:18
  Party, they're not That different and that was really
• 1:44:20
  the thing, like you said, it was much more business, advantageous
• 1:44:24
  things. The the Democratic Party in the
• 1:44:26
  90s was a very much, what, what a conservative party would be in
• 1:44:33
  the in Europe. Now what?
• 1:44:36
  Maybe not bow, like 10 years ago?
• 1:44:38
  Um, because it was, it was doing deregulation of financial
• 1:44:44
  institutions. They were, they were reducing,
• 1:44:49
  Taxes at the top layer, they were creating more business tax
• 1:44:54
  write-offs and more business tax.
• 1:44:57
  Exclusions, they were doing a lot and the reason that they
• 1:45:00
  were doing that and we can really, like I love political
• 1:45:04
  history, because Trump was like, almost an inevitability
• 1:45:08
  politically not him specifically, but that kind of
• 1:45:10
  person and it was, it was callable from, you know, it was
• 1:45:15
  callable from two decades ago. You could have easily been like,
• 1:45:18
  oh, eventually Either the next one or the one after that, is
• 1:45:21
  going to be a call to personality candidate.
• 1:45:24
  And it's because, because of Reagan Reagan Force the
• 1:45:27
  Democratic party to shift its policy really aggressively
• 1:45:31
  because they could not get past how popular rare but
• 1:45:35
  Republicans, became leading up to and then exploding during
• 1:45:39
  Reagan. So, there was no way they were
• 1:45:41
  going to compete on a national scale, without moving.
• 1:45:45
  The needle to different talking points than they had pre Reagan.
• 1:45:52
  What is the biggest life lesson that you've learned so far?
• 1:45:58
  Oh, that's a good. That's a good podcast question
• 1:46:01
  due to do. Biggest life lesson.
• 1:46:03
  I've learned so far and we've touched on it.
• 1:46:05
  A lot here is full like as much as I allowed by society and the
• 1:46:12
  life that you have to live to survive.
• 1:46:16
  As authentic as you can possibly be, do not waste any time.
• 1:46:23
  If you if you can avoid it, not pursuing the things that you
• 1:46:28
  want. We all have to work.
• 1:46:29
  We all have jobs. We all have things that we are
• 1:46:31
  required to do, but at least while you're doing them, you can
• 1:46:34
  be as authentic as possible without getting fired from them
• 1:46:37
  or excluding yourself from them, be you as much as possible.
• 1:46:43
  The whole reason I'm fine with twitch being Slow growth or
• 1:46:46
  YouTube video not doing well or a podcast, you know, listening
• 1:46:50
  episode being like, well, that episode didn't have as much
• 1:46:53
  24-hour download, is because I am literally just doing things.
• 1:46:57
  I want to have fun with for that purpose.
• 1:47:01
  If they're successful great. If they're not to me, they're
• 1:47:05
  already successful because they're things I want to do and
• 1:47:08
  that's true and workplaces of being as authentic as possible
• 1:47:11
  to make work more pleasant to me.
• 1:47:13
  That's true. So be who you are.
• 1:47:15
  If Or quiet, if your reserved, that's cool.
• 1:47:18
  If you're loud, that's great. You gotta survive.
• 1:47:21
  But other than that, be who you can be as much as possible,
• 1:47:24
  you'll love life. A lot better.
• 1:47:27
  Life will be much calmer. You'll have a lot more fun than
• 1:47:31
  if you try to be the most successful or be what you think
• 1:47:35
  you need to be. So, that's the biggest lesson
• 1:47:37
  I've learned because I was not that way until about my mid-20s.
• 1:47:41
  I was very manufactured. Thank you for sharing.
• 1:47:45
  And as we draw things to a close for today, do you have any
• 1:47:48
  upcoming projects or maybe some final thoughts that you'd like
• 1:47:51
  to share with our listeners? I mean, I definitely, you know,
• 1:47:54
  we've talked about a lot of my projects, the dying of exposure
• 1:47:58
  twitch Channel and low armor, cast for sort of and and YouTube
• 1:48:01
  are sort of like the big three. I am going to be releasing two
• 1:48:06
  things in the nerdcore. If you're interested in nerdy
• 1:48:09
  music and you're interested in in music that's about like
• 1:48:13
  Science Fiction and Fantasy and comic Books and stuff like that,
• 1:48:18
  and in mid-summer. So sometime in July, both Death
• 1:48:24
  Star, as well as me as a solo artist, which is just Steve will
• 1:48:32
  be. There will be two EPS coming out
• 1:48:35
  from both of us, accompanied by music videos on YouTube, which I
• 1:48:39
  never used to do, but I am doing now and they might just be a mvs
• 1:48:43
  or little clip togethers or pictures.
• 1:48:45
  Videos of me just rapping at my desk, with some b-roll and other
• 1:48:49
  things going on, but there'll be videos on YouTube.
• 1:48:52
  So I would say probably I don't have exact dates for him but
• 1:48:56
  July is the month. And so if you follow me on
• 1:48:59
  social media at dying of exposure, you're going to find
• 1:49:03
  everything about that because I always filter everything.
• 1:49:06
  I'm working through that social media, It's in, Steven has been
• 1:49:10
  an absolute pleasure, having you on the show.
• 1:49:12
  So I want to say thank you very much for being such a great
• 1:49:15
  guest. Thank you for having me.
• 1:49:18
  And I really appreciate, I love that.
• 1:49:21
  We started off talking about the mechanics of streaming and
• 1:49:23
  content creation. It's one of my favorite topics
• 1:49:27
  but yeah, thank you so much for having me and yeah, I guess
• 1:49:32
  we've been talking for a couple hours so she probably we should
• 1:49:35
  probably wrap up. She's again things.
• 1:49:41
  He standard podcast link to h plus.
• 1:49:47
  To be honest to be, I always just end it when it feels,
• 1:49:50
  right, I tried to get one. It's winding down.
• 1:49:52
  No, not even. Not even.
• 1:49:54
  I mean I always look at have I asked all the questions I wanted
• 1:49:58
  to ask have I had a really have I had a good discussion with
• 1:50:01
  this person, you know. Have I really gone the distance
• 1:50:05
  with this and you know yeah I think what I feel is right?
• 1:50:09
  Yeah. Actually I was prepared for you
• 1:50:11
  to cut topics for time. Be like we're going to do d and
• 1:50:13
  e and it's like, we don't have time for nerdcore.
• 1:50:16
  Anything else but just cut know. Yeah.
• 1:50:20
  Like I've had it be a situation where I'm like, I've come on.
• 1:50:24
  I usually don't try to promote one specific thing.
• 1:50:27
  I'm good with whatever people want to talk about, but I I come
• 1:50:31
  on and they're like, yeah, we want to talk about this this and
• 1:50:33
  then, you know, an hour in they'll just be like, all right,
• 1:50:36
  well, we have to wrap up, sorry, we didn't get to this and I'm
• 1:50:38
  like, that's fine. I just came to chat, I don't
• 1:50:41
  mind whatever we talk about, we could have literally, if you
• 1:50:44
  just did wanted to if we'd started Our politics earlier.
• 1:50:47
  We literally could have politic the whole time.
• 1:50:49
  I yeah, I can see that I can see it.
• 1:50:52
  Yeah. If I could see myself going
• 1:50:54
  about a real rabbit hole with you on that one.
• 1:50:56
  Yeah I'd be like oh do you want to understand you know nixonian
• 1:51:00
  Republican strategies that have led us to the modern
• 1:51:03
  conservative xenophobia us that we live in today?
• 1:51:08
  All that stuff? It's absolutely naturist but
• 1:51:11
  yeah this is big great. Thank you very much.
• 1:51:13
  Thank you for taking some time for me.
• 1:51:16
  And I look forward to doing it. Do you have an idea of when this
• 1:51:20
  like episode or this stuff is going to start trickling out?
• 1:51:24
  I don't know what your turnaround time is, it's about
• 1:51:27
  as fast as I can. Get it out, it will be out, but
• 1:51:32
  yeah, it my process. I don't know if my listeners
• 1:51:34
  actually know about this but typically my turnaround time for
• 1:51:38
  an episode is normally the next day, it's actually pretty quick,
• 1:51:41
  whoo. But when it comes to cutting out
• 1:51:43
  clips and this depends that Take that I can take.
• 1:51:47
  That could take a long time. Yeah.
• 1:51:49
  I there's other podcasters that literally, they'll be like,
• 1:51:52
  alright, we did this interview and then four months later, is
• 1:51:55
  when the episode. Yeah.
• 1:51:56
  Grab that big Runway. That's affected me because I've
• 1:52:00
  also as I've started podcast and I've also started appearing
• 1:52:03
  other people shows for promotional purposes and yeah
• 1:52:08
  there's been times when people have done that and then the
• 1:52:11
  information is no longer relevant like like there was one
• 1:52:14
  that was released recently and In the bit where she was like,
• 1:52:18
  oh yeah, plug. What you want to plug?
• 1:52:20
  I said, oh yeah, this Channel and this Channel and I'm doing,
• 1:52:24
  I'm doing it. Like I mentioned at the time I
• 1:52:25
  was doing retro-gaming, I don't do retro-gaming anymore, so it's
• 1:52:28
  like if people watch that now, they're like, why doesn't he do?
• 1:52:32
  Oh, is fast. I would, I would love to plug
• 1:52:37
  something that's happening. Now, that's a really, really fun
• 1:52:40
  because I kind of did something else.
• 1:52:41
  Like July, it'll probably be out before then.
• 1:52:46
  So There is if people want to get into nerdcore figure out
• 1:52:48
  what it's all about or figure out the variety of it.
• 1:52:50
  There's something happening right now, called the nerdcore
• 1:52:53
  vocalist producer challenge. It's run by the nerdcore group
• 1:52:57
  on Facebook and what it is is it's a bunch of nerdcore
• 1:53:00
  musicians producers and emcees that form teams together and a
• 1:53:05
  lot of times we tend to form teams with people.
• 1:53:07
  We don't normally work with and so it'll be a Duo of a producer
• 1:53:10
  and MC and then every three weeks they'll be a new song
• 1:53:14
  Challenge and it'll Have guidelines.
• 1:53:17
  Like it can't be in a 4/4 time signature which is your standard
• 1:53:20
  like rock and dance time signature.
• 1:53:22
  It'll be in 3/4 which is more of a waltz or an odd time signature
• 1:53:29
  like 54, which is what you'd hear like Primus songs in but or
• 1:53:35
  a lot of jazz music for that matter and then like and or
• 1:53:39
  they'll be a thing like this has to be seen from a video game.
• 1:53:44
  So you have to pick the style of video game from this.
• 1:53:46
  List and then the scene or like the moment in the video game
• 1:53:49
  from this list and that's what the rapper has to do.
• 1:53:51
  Or you can only use live instruments or you can only do
• 1:53:54
  this or that. And what it means is that in one
• 1:53:58
  place, every three weeks, three weeks this year, this round, the
• 1:54:02
  year's competition roughly about 40.
• 1:54:04
  Teams are uploading a new song on a playlist that you can hear.
• 1:54:10
  And so you can just go and listen to a ton of different
• 1:54:12
  nerdcore artists, you don't have to do any research, you don't
• 1:54:15
  have to spend any time. It's all conveniently on
• 1:54:18
  nerdcore VP si.com or the nerdcore VPC playlist on
• 1:54:22
  Soundcloud and I'm competing it in this.
• 1:54:24
  Yes. Year this year as well as the
• 1:54:26
  main producer and DJ for Death, Star on a different team, he's
• 1:54:31
  judging it and a number of other nerdcore artists.
• 1:54:34
  You can watch talkbacks about it on Twitch, a bunch of us stream
• 1:54:38
  about it, but yeah, it's a cool place.
• 1:54:41
  So for the listeners that they want to figure out what their
• 1:54:43
  core is all about, they can just go to nerdcore.
• 1:54:46
  Si.com, listen to the music. There, we just did round two.
• 1:54:50
  So round three is up in a couple weeks and there's five rounds.
• 1:54:54
  So they'll be a ton of music to just enjoy and find out and
• 1:54:58
  their songs about duck hunt. Their songs about Quake, their
• 1:55:01
  songs about Star Trek, their songs about whatever you could
• 1:55:05
  imagine. Well, listen, best of luck with
• 1:55:08
  that once again, thank you very much for being on the show and
• 1:55:12
  to all my listeners make sure you go check out Stevens
• 1:55:14
  projects. He's a stand-up guy.
• 1:55:16
  Clearly got a lot of cool interest so yeah go check all of
• 1:55:19
  that out. And yeah, if you're watching the
• 1:55:22
  podcast on YouTube as always, please make sure to put all that
• 1:55:26
  was. Please make sure please make
• 1:55:27
  sure to like share and subscribe.
• 1:55:30
  And if you're listening on Spotify, Apple podcasts Google
• 1:55:33
  podcast. Please leave us a review.
• 1:55:35
  I want to see more of those podcast reviews are so
• 1:55:38
  necessary. I've only had a few.
• 1:55:41
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:55:43
  I've only yeah I've only had the One on a podcast.
• 1:55:48
  But yeah, those follows they are, they are everything in the
• 1:55:51
  podcast environment, even a few of them, just take the time, put
• 1:55:55
  in the little stars, especially on the Apple stuff and then take
• 1:55:58
  your time. Even if you're right, I really
• 1:56:00
  like this podcast done like put it in there and helps so much.
• 1:56:05
  Absolutely and yeah, just let us know who you would like to see
• 1:56:08
  on the show. Next what you would like to hear
• 1:56:10
  us discuss on the show next and until next time, be safe be
• 1:56:14
  well, and I'll see you in the next one.