Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Crime Roundup with Nancy Grace: New Federal Charges Against Luigi Mangione | Zone 7

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Crime Roundup with Nancy Grace: New Federal Charges Against Luigi Mangione | Zone 7 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, I've got to tell you
0:03
Speaker 1: about an incredible podcast I firmly believe you.
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Speaker 2: Will not only love, laugh, but learn from.
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Speaker 1: It's Zone seven with my longtime friend and colleague for
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Speaker 1: expert Cheryl McCollum. As a crime scene investigator with years
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Speaker 1: of experience in the system, Cheryl brings a treasure trove
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Speaker 1: of knowledge to Zone seven, diving into cold cases with
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Speaker 1: an incredible perspective that only someone in the business could bring.
0:40
Speaker 1: She brings on incredible experts directly from her Zone seven network.
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Speaker 1: Follow Zone seven on your favorite podcast app and without
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Speaker 1: any further ado, here is my friend, Cheryl McCallum.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum and
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Speaker 2: we are joined by the one, the only, the incomparable,
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Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. Good morning, Good morning.
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Speaker 3: Luigim and JIONI just caught a federal charge.
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Speaker 2: Right on.
1:23
Speaker 3: Wait, can I tell you something real quick?
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Speaker 2: Yes?
1:27
Speaker 3: Hold on, David, come here, shut David. I had to
1:31
Speaker 3: make it real. He had to be in the room
1:33
Speaker 3: before I told him to shut up. Okay, I can
1:34
Speaker 3: just pretend to say shut up. We don't say the
1:37
Speaker 3: spird but I reserve it just for David. Did you know,
1:41
Speaker 3: man Jonnie caught a federal chargers means he can get
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Speaker 3: the death penalty. Okay, that's what I was going to
1:45
Speaker 3: tell you. When I was prosecuting people with Judge Alberson,
1:52
Speaker 3: who is my favorite judge of all time, Luther Alberson
1:56
Speaker 3: was so old that he was he the manitary retirement
2:00
Speaker 3: age did not apply to him because he was already
2:04
Speaker 3: I don't know. You may have been too all at
2:06
Speaker 3: the time they passed it, but I can tell you this,
2:08
Speaker 3: this is what it meant to me in practical terms.
2:11
Speaker 3: He wanted to be known as fit as a fiddle
2:15
Speaker 3: and the best judge in the courthouse. So we would
2:17
Speaker 3: have to keep our jail count the lowest. What is
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Speaker 3: a jail count? That means that out of all the
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Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds of cases you have pending, the number
2:28
Speaker 3: of defendants that are sitting in jail waiting for the
2:33
Speaker 3: resolution of their case, it would come out every Monday
2:37
Speaker 3: and you would see what judge is not attending to business?
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Speaker 2: Uh huh, Because if.
2:42
Speaker 3: You've got people sitting in the jail, you need to
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Speaker 3: try them, or plead them, or drop the case, do something,
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Speaker 3: and all the judges would compare that jail count secretly
2:52
Speaker 3: and see which judge, like Eldridge Lord he would have
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Speaker 3: a jail count up round eighty nine one hundred and
3:01
Speaker 3: Albertson wanted his jail count under twenty. Okay, And since
3:07
Speaker 3: they wouldn't plead anybody out cheap, they all had to
3:09
Speaker 3: go to trial. Okay. I loved him so much, so
3:15
Speaker 3: what he would force us to do, which was finally
3:18
Speaker 3: made and forced me on one day a week, we
3:22
Speaker 3: would bring in the defendant from the jail and the
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Speaker 3: attorney and me and my investigator, and we'd go through
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Speaker 3: the file and give a plea deal if there was
3:32
Speaker 3: a deal to be had. They were saying, Miss Grace,
3:37
Speaker 3: I caught a little robbery charge, like somebody threw it
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Speaker 3: at them and they just happened to catch it. Yeah,
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Speaker 3: so what I see same, Me and Jonny just caught
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Speaker 3: a federal charge. It made me think I caught a
3:50
Speaker 3: little robbery charge, miss Grace. Yep, I'm just charge oh man, Okay,
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Speaker 3: so this is what I know. In the last twenty
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Speaker 3: four hours, federal prosecutors unseal a murder case against Menzioni,
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Speaker 3: holding out the possibility of the death penalty after a
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Speaker 3: trial on separate state charges. There you go the federal
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Speaker 3: charges on one count using firearm to commit murder, death
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Speaker 3: tooth stalking counts and a firearms offense. What about that?
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Speaker 2: I think it's the right call, and I think it's
4:30
Speaker 2: going to send a really good message for some of
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Speaker 2: these copycats, intended idiots, because you know, these people think
4:38
Speaker 2: this is a game. They think this is something. Hey,
4:41
Speaker 2: we can go around and you know, stab the CEO
4:44
Speaker 2: in a meeting, you know, make threats on line to
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Speaker 2: this one, it's going to be shut down. And the
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Speaker 2: more people that you know, play these games and go
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Speaker 2: to jail, it's going to regulate the other ones.
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Speaker 3: I've got a big, big, overarching question, why are there
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Speaker 3: so many idiots running around? I was reading an article
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Speaker 3: about Mangoni and some lawyer. If I could remember their name,
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Speaker 3: I would absolutely tell you so well, this isn't a
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Speaker 3: federal case because crossing state lines to commit a crime
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Speaker 3: does not make it federal. I'm like, what who said that?
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Speaker 3: Because the complaint accuses me and Gione of crossing state
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Speaker 3: lines from Atlanta to the Port Authority in New York
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Speaker 3: to stalk and kill Thompson, which gives the FEDS jurisdiction
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Speaker 3: to prosecute him.
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Speaker 2: Yep, and he did so with an illegal weapon with
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Speaker 2: the intent to come in murder, which he did.
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Speaker 3: I just had to crack open another can first thing
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Speaker 3: in the morning, tea of the eight blood sodium and
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Speaker 3: I'm hitting it hard. Today's Cheryland.
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Speaker 2: Hey, I gotta jail you something. What in nineteen ninety
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Speaker 2: six when you left Atlanta ninety seven, you know, all
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Speaker 2: night we didn't even have cable TV. So like I
5:56
Speaker 2: knew this was a big deal. I knew it was
5:59
Speaker 2: super cool, but I didn't get to watch you every week,
6:02
Speaker 2: you know, every night. And then when you came back
6:07
Speaker 2: and was it two thousand and five you started a Jillian.
6:11
Speaker 3: Let me say, David, when was it. I think it
6:13
Speaker 3: was before then. It was before then. Let me think,
6:16
Speaker 3: because for the longest time I did Court TVD Then
6:19
Speaker 3: I across town. You know it can take an hour
6:22
Speaker 3: to cross town. I don't mean go up down downtown.
6:26
Speaker 3: I mean go from the east side to the west side.
6:29
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. And then for a while my EP
6:33
Speaker 3: wanted me to do a podcaster. It wasn't a podcast,
6:36
Speaker 3: it was filmed in the car in the car on
6:40
Speaker 3: the way where we would have our meeting about what
6:45
Speaker 3: were we gonna? What were the was the focus that night? Anyway?
6:48
Speaker 3: It was insane. Yes. So then at some point it
6:54
Speaker 3: was after I had oh and when I was pregnant.
6:57
Speaker 3: No one knew I was pregnant except the make up
7:00
Speaker 3: ladies Anita and Vincenza, and they need because I throw
7:05
Speaker 3: up at the trash can almost every morning. And then okay,
7:07
Speaker 3: I'm fine, put on the make it.
7:09
Speaker 2: Let's go okay.
7:13
Speaker 3: And then ultimately I moved back to Atlanta and started
7:16
Speaker 3: shooting the hl In Show from the Atlanta Flagship.
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Speaker 2: Correct. And that's and you know I was on with
7:23
Speaker 2: you a lot. Oh gosh, yeah, I mean I knew
7:26
Speaker 2: that you were well known, especially in Atlanta. I mean,
7:29
Speaker 2: but I didn't understand naturally what you were if that
7:34
Speaker 2: makes any sense. Conceptually, Yes, you were on TV. People
7:38
Speaker 2: knew you, but even back in the day in Fulton County,
7:41
Speaker 2: everybody knew you. So it was two thousand and six.
7:45
Speaker 2: I'll never forget it.
7:46
Speaker 3: I know that story is going somewhere.
7:48
Speaker 2: It is I funched the Gilmore Girls and Nancy. That's
7:56
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know that show. But it's
7:57
Speaker 2: about a mom and a daughter.
7:58
Speaker 3: It's really cute talking about Star.
8:01
Speaker 2: Hollow, are you I am?
8:04
Speaker 3: Lucy loves it. Yes, I've been forced to watch it now.
8:07
Speaker 3: I actually like it.
8:08
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know if.
8:09
Speaker 3: It's Orwillian or not. You know, you do it so
8:12
Speaker 3: much you think that's wonderful.
8:15
Speaker 2: It's wonderful. But you know that mom on the show,
8:19
Speaker 2: her humor was so funny but so quick. I mean,
8:23
Speaker 2: she would have these lines. She would say, I'm so
8:26
Speaker 2: fast that if you weren't paying attention, you would miss
8:29
Speaker 2: some of the embedded humor. Well, I'm watching that show
8:32
Speaker 2: in two thousand and six and she's talking about her mama.
8:35
Speaker 2: Her mama drives crazy sometimes, you know, she can just
8:37
Speaker 2: strangle her whatever.
8:38
Speaker 3: Her mother was very often right, I might add.
8:43
Speaker 2: And so she was saying she needs a buffer of
8:46
Speaker 2: her best friends sometimes between she and her mom. And
8:49
Speaker 2: she was like, look, that buffer is my mom's best friend.
8:52
Speaker 2: Without that buffer, Nacy Grace is going to be camping
8:55
Speaker 2: out or miss Patty's front law. And I was like,
8:58
Speaker 2: what Grase? And how could the Gilmour girls make a
9:03
Speaker 2: reference that fast? I knew in that moment just how
9:07
Speaker 2: famous you were. Fast forward two nights ago, Hucky Caroline
9:13
Speaker 2: busting this house talking about Nancy Grace. They just did
9:17
Speaker 2: a parody on f and Lady. I don't know if
9:20
Speaker 2: you saw it, but girl, you are still iconic.
9:25
Speaker 3: I really appreciate all that you're saying I do. And
9:28
Speaker 3: it was flattering. I got a flutter text one hated
9:32
Speaker 3: that hurt your feelings.
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Speaker 2: Hurt your feeling No, not at all.
9:37
Speaker 3: I was, you know, flattered and honored. And it could
9:41
Speaker 3: have been so much worse.
9:42
Speaker 2: Basically, oh Hockey, Caroline loved it, and they were both
9:46
Speaker 2: going with am I regis right? You know it was awesome?
9:53
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I dig it and I sit there and
9:56
Speaker 2: I think, and I've said this before to you, but
9:58
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it again. It took so much guts
10:02
Speaker 2: to do what you did, leave what was familiar, all
10:05
Speaker 2: these people that loved you, with a track record that
10:08
Speaker 2: you had, and go to a city you had never
10:11
Speaker 2: lived in before to do a show and then to
10:16
Speaker 2: use your name. And I've told Hunt and Caroline this.
10:21
Speaker 2: If she had failed, Nancy Grace would have failed. If
10:25
Speaker 2: you had called the show anything else, you know, legal breaths,
10:29
Speaker 2: nobody would even remember you if it hadn't worked, But
10:32
Speaker 2: what you did was just legendary. So I just wanted
10:36
Speaker 2: to say it was super cool for my own children
10:38
Speaker 2: of us in to be champion for you because they
10:41
Speaker 2: thought it was that just fantastic.
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Speaker 3: Well, I don't really know how to take a compliment.
10:47
Speaker 3: I really appreciate that, but i'd like to I feel
10:51
Speaker 3: better talking about cases than I do about any of that.
10:54
Speaker 3: And I also am just oblivious to everything going on
10:59
Speaker 3: around me than the twins, David, mother and the cases.
11:05
Speaker 3: Everything else is just like what, oh yeah, and the dog.
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Speaker 3: So thank you. But can we talk about MANZIONI now, yes, absolutely,
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Speaker 3: there's no telling what's going to happen next with Menngione.
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Speaker 3: But what do you make of the federal charges? Are
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Speaker 3: they a bargaining chip? Are they real? Are the Feds
11:32
Speaker 3: going to actually go forward with it? Or is it
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Speaker 3: something to hold over his head to get a plea.
11:38
Speaker 3: I don't see him entering plate, not with these lawyers.
11:42
Speaker 3: You know, it's freaky. His lawyer is married to the
11:45
Speaker 3: Diddy lawyer, Sean Combs.
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Speaker 2: Yes, I saw that, and I'll tell you I take
11:51
Speaker 2: a different stance. I don't think they're going to offer
11:53
Speaker 2: him a please. I think you've got every ceo with
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Speaker 2: every fortune five hundred saying this has got the end.
12:00
Speaker 2: You've got to stop it. These people are exposed. Everybody
12:04
Speaker 2: knows where they are seventy hours a week. They know
12:08
Speaker 2: their entrance, their exit. And that's the reason folks like
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Speaker 2: Home Depot and Cocola and Delta and all these other
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Speaker 2: people have CEOs with drivers and private security because they
12:19
Speaker 2: need them.
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Speaker 3: If you know that a new poll was just conducted,
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Speaker 3: I mean, if you believe polls that states younger voters
12:29
Speaker 3: are evenly divided on whether what means you Onie did
12:34
Speaker 3: was assassination or whether it was righteous.
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Speaker 2: I'm going to say again, and I've said it. I
12:41
Speaker 2: have had so many people send me screenshots, whether it's
12:47
Speaker 2: the new Robinhood, he's a hero, he's so good looking,
12:52
Speaker 2: all these things. All I can think of is how
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Speaker 2: lucky you are that you're life has never been touched
13:02
Speaker 2: by this level of violence. That you can think that
13:04
Speaker 2: it's okay any group, any group that you can say, oh,
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Speaker 2: they deserve to be killed in the street, you have
13:15
Speaker 2: got to look at that on some level and go,
13:19
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I am so out of bounds here because,
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Speaker 2: like you and I have talked about privately, you change
13:25
Speaker 2: that rich with any other word, and you know you
13:30
Speaker 2: sound crazy as a rat in a coffee camp.
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Speaker 3: I want to talk about the notebook, the spiral notebook
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Speaker 3: that you keep mentioning, and I like the way you
13:37
Speaker 3: mention it and the context in which you mention it.
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Speaker 3: The notebook. I can't wait to read the entries because
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Speaker 3: it's going to be his handwritten notes of his amusings.
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Speaker 3: I've always wondered what was OJ Simpson writing in that
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Speaker 3: notebook Cochran would give him to make him look like
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Speaker 3: he was studious and attention to the trial. They're probably
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Speaker 3: just doodlings. But I do know that one entry dated
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Speaker 3: August fifteen. I know very little at this juncture, but
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Speaker 3: I do know that entry said, quote the details, the
14:15
Speaker 3: details are finally coming together. And I'm getting this from
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Speaker 3: the federal federal complaint. Quote. I'm glad in a way
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Speaker 3: that I've procrastinated. He says. It gave him more time
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Speaker 3: to learn about the company he was targeting. He says,
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Speaker 3: the target is insurance. It checks every box. I mean,
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Speaker 3: we're gonna learn a lot. As you described a rat
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Speaker 3: and a coffee again, that's right about what's going on
14:48
Speaker 3: in his hand I mean it's because I'm curious. I
14:52
Speaker 3: don't want to get too If I were trying the case,
14:54
Speaker 3: I wouldn't get too deeply in it except for the
14:56
Speaker 3: probate of value. This entry shows that, and that entry
15:00
Speaker 3: shows this, because if you really get tangled up in
15:04
Speaker 3: the inner workings of his mind, I mean, it's like
15:07
Speaker 3: walking through five feet ache income. I mean, you're not
15:10
Speaker 3: going to get anywhere. It's just ramblings and musings. And
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Speaker 3: I don't know that I would even want the jury
15:16
Speaker 3: to have it. Well, I guess you'd have to give
15:18
Speaker 3: it to him because it's probably full of bizarreities. It's
15:22
Speaker 3: not a word, and I wouldn't want the jury bogged down.
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Speaker 3: But that said, I would love to read it.
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Speaker 2: And that's why he's a contradiction. Nothing he does versus
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Speaker 2: what he says, versus what he believes versus his actions
15:37
Speaker 2: add up. So on the one hand, he's a tech expert,
15:42
Speaker 2: but he's going to use a spiral notebook. He wants
15:45
Speaker 2: to hide and get away with this. Yet this is
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Speaker 2: in your handwriting and found on your person. A lot
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Speaker 2: of playing and went in but no streat wise activity,
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Speaker 2: like he doesn't understand how if I used fake ID
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Speaker 2: and cash money, how in the world did they find me?
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Speaker 2: Because he doesn't understand law enforcement, especially one of the
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Speaker 2: best law enforcement agencies in the world. And then you've
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Speaker 2: got the Internet, the very thing that he wasn't even
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Speaker 2: trying to be a part of because he quote went
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Speaker 2: off the grid prior to the assassination.
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Speaker 3: Wait, you call Livin and a forty story higher eyes
16:27
Speaker 3: on the Honolulu Beach going off the grid?
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Speaker 2: Oh what?
16:32
Speaker 3: No, off the grid is Eric Rudolf? This means youonity
16:38
Speaker 3: at what kills me? Wait a minute, can I tell you
16:40
Speaker 3: something else? We need to talk about this. I hate
16:42
Speaker 3: to give you all my AMMO that I planned to
16:44
Speaker 3: use on crime stories, but I will, Sister at arms.
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Speaker 3: All of these photos. Look at them. One of them,
16:53
Speaker 3: he's laying on his back. Okay, think about it. He's
16:56
Speaker 3: laying on his back. Think of somebody laying on a bend.
17:00
Speaker 3: You're at the end of the bed with your camera
17:01
Speaker 3: and they lay on their back and hang their head
17:03
Speaker 3: down and look at you upside down. There's a shot
17:06
Speaker 3: of him like that with a bunch of girls. Do
17:08
Speaker 3: not throw away that last donut. Oh okay, never mind,
17:13
Speaker 3: they're Krispy Kremes. Why are there so many duncans and
17:16
Speaker 3: so fio Crispies?
17:18
Speaker 2: Right?
17:19
Speaker 3: What's that all about? Everybody knows Krispies are better.
17:22
Speaker 2: And that hot sign come on now.
17:24
Speaker 3: Hot donuts now sign. It's not a hot sign, it's
17:27
Speaker 3: an HDN hot donuts now now. So all the teachers
17:32
Speaker 3: are trying to cram everything in before they go for
17:35
Speaker 3: Christmas tests and all that. So we've been living off
17:37
Speaker 3: Krispy Kreme donuts all week. Anyway, I thought David was
17:41
Speaker 3: actually make sure there's not one left in there, because
17:44
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure mother only Okay, it's so hard to
17:48
Speaker 3: give my mother anything for breakfast that she likes, and
17:52
Speaker 3: I've just discovered she never really likes sweets. In the
17:55
Speaker 3: last couple of weeks, she loves Krispy Kreme donuts, so
17:59
Speaker 3: I usually hand make her oatmeal with those golden raisins
18:03
Speaker 3: in it. Okay, she got turned to that. Okay, cheese
18:05
Speaker 3: grips with bacon in it, got turned to that cheese,
18:08
Speaker 3: got tired of that. Now She's send a Krispy Kreme
18:11
Speaker 3: donuts and I'm so happy. I hope it lasts forever. Okay,
18:15
Speaker 3: where was I? Oh? Oh the photos? How can he
18:18
Speaker 3: lay on his back and hang his head there, I'm
18:21
Speaker 3: backwards off like a hammock or something, smiling and giggling
18:26
Speaker 3: with a back problem. Then he is pictured in a
18:30
Speaker 3: hallway pickling two girls at once as they laughed giddily.
18:34
Speaker 3: He is surfing, he is running on the beach. There
18:38
Speaker 3: was one photo and I know you're stealing all this
18:41
Speaker 3: from me by thought process. He loved who You know,
18:44
Speaker 3: It's like I sumoked you. You suck it in, then you
18:46
Speaker 3: spit it out like us.
18:47
Speaker 2: You're right, idea.
18:48
Speaker 3: I'm just looking at you, going I just said that.
18:50
Speaker 3: Then wait, there was one with a girl riding piggyback
18:54
Speaker 3: on his back. I'm starting to be suspicious of this
18:58
Speaker 3: whole back thing.
18:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, little bit. And you know, he's hunched over building
19:04
Speaker 2: a firearm, which took hours and hours and hours. He's
19:07
Speaker 2: hunged over right in a manifesto. He's hunged over writing
19:11
Speaker 2: messages on shell cases. He's running from the scene. He's
19:15
Speaker 2: bicycling from the scene. He's riding a bus.
19:18
Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of low grade heels in
19:22
Speaker 3: Central Park, some of them not that low grade because
19:27
Speaker 3: the twins, they grew up in New York. The twins
19:31
Speaker 3: love to play in their gray rocks and they're really
19:36
Speaker 3: they're all over central part and they're really tall. They
19:40
Speaker 3: love to get up on those rocks. That'd be a
19:41
Speaker 3: nervous wreck. And I'm thinking that's where he ditched his
19:45
Speaker 3: backpack and they had to climb up those rocks to
19:47
Speaker 3: do that.
19:48
Speaker 2: Again, does not sound like a back problem.
19:51
Speaker 3: Oh, you know, he's gonna lay it on thick in
19:53
Speaker 3: the courtroom, though, You're.
19:54
Speaker 2: Right, And I think all they need to do is
19:55
Speaker 2: show the video of him riding that bicycle over speed
19:59
Speaker 2: bumps and every everything else. He's not wincing. And again
20:03
Speaker 2: he chose a bus which took four times as long
20:07
Speaker 2: to get to New York. If you've got a back problem,
20:11
Speaker 2: you're not gonna want to sit for that long.
20:13
Speaker 3: Have you ever had a back problem?
20:15
Speaker 2: Never, I'm a knock on one.
20:17
Speaker 3: I haven't either. But they're excruciating. They're really painful from
20:22
Speaker 3: what I understand. So I don't know for me. The
20:27
Speaker 3: jury's out on the back ELM. Because I see the
20:30
Speaker 3: X ray with the pins, I guess those are pins
20:33
Speaker 3: and his spine and his vertebra. But his activities, how
20:37
Speaker 3: can you do that with all the back? Why do
20:40
Speaker 3: we wait a minute? Number one, I think it shows
20:43
Speaker 3: he's a liar, but that has nothing to do with
20:47
Speaker 3: any sort of justification for gunning anybody down, much less
20:51
Speaker 3: somebody you've never met.
20:53
Speaker 2: You can't give me a reason. And that's the reason
20:55
Speaker 2: when people say, well, what is the motive, I don't care.
20:58
Speaker 2: There's a reason. We don't have to and say what
21:00
Speaker 2: the motive is in court. To me, it's not relevant.
21:04
Speaker 2: What is relevant is this young man decided on his
21:08
Speaker 2: own that he was going to murder somebody in cold
21:12
Speaker 2: blood from the bat. I mean, what a coward, what
21:16
Speaker 2: a honk move? You won't even step to somebody face
21:20
Speaker 2: to face.
21:21
Speaker 3: The only reason he's getting the celebrity treatment is because
21:24
Speaker 3: he is rich, educated, white. Yes I said it, and
21:30
Speaker 3: some people not me, but some people think he's handsome.
21:34
Speaker 3: That's why if this were anybody else hid be under
21:38
Speaker 3: the jail, they'd be like, screw him. That is it.
21:42
Speaker 3: It is elitist and it is wrong. And if anybody else,
21:46
Speaker 3: and let me just throw in while we're on a
21:48
Speaker 3: two tier justice system right now. Uh uh No, he
21:54
Speaker 3: is a school shooter, and we're all like, oh, she
21:57
Speaker 3: was so tortured you maybe because her parents got married,
22:03
Speaker 3: got divorced, got married, got divorced, and she would be
22:06
Speaker 3: two days with this one, two days with that one,
22:08
Speaker 3: three days with this one, back and forth. Children all
22:12
Speaker 3: around the country have that whacked out shared cope. Iarantine
22:17
Speaker 3: because the parents want to be with the child. Thank god,
22:22
Speaker 3: they want to be with the child. Well one of
22:24
Speaker 3: them just doesn't take off for California and leave the
22:27
Speaker 3: other parent with the child to raise on their own.
22:30
Speaker 3: I don't know. When I'm looking at her. And aside
22:34
Speaker 3: from her, she's fifteen. The twenty year old man that
22:39
Speaker 3: was conspiring with her online what a.
22:42
Speaker 2: Freak, right, And somehow they connected, somehow they found each other.
22:47
Speaker 2: And then he's telling her, Hey, I'm going to get
22:50
Speaker 2: a gun and I'm going to go do a mass
22:51
Speaker 2: shooting at a government building. Same time, she's getting a
22:55
Speaker 2: gun from somewhere we don't know from where yet, and
22:58
Speaker 2: she goes to her school of only four hundred kids.
23:02
Speaker 2: I mean, what a tiny environment. Everybody had to know
23:07
Speaker 2: each other. And then she decides I'm gonna kill however
23:11
Speaker 2: many I can kill. She had two weapons with her
23:14
Speaker 2: and then took her own life. In that same incident, Cheryl,
23:17
Speaker 2: I can't.
23:17
Speaker 3: Believe he's mad. It through an entire crime round up
23:20
Speaker 3: and talked about Eric Rudolf and I even threw out
23:22
Speaker 3: the bait bab he said his name was. And he
23:26
Speaker 3: didn't tell Rudolph story, not about him in his scraggly
23:29
Speaker 3: hair and a stinky self and eating nuts and berries. Nothing.
23:32
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there were a lot of people that
23:34
Speaker 2: thought he was good looking too.
23:36
Speaker 3: I never thought he was good looking.
23:37
Speaker 2: There was a lot of people that thought he was
23:39
Speaker 2: especially the composite that Marla Lawson did. They thought he
23:43
Speaker 2: was a good looking kid. The problem is, again you've
23:47
Speaker 2: got somebody that is mentally not okay.
23:50
Speaker 3: Well this did not start that up, doctor Bethany Marshall
23:53
Speaker 3: and doctor Karen start don't he is not It was
23:56
Speaker 3: not insane. And when you say he's not mentally okay,
23:59
Speaker 3: whatever that means, but it does not rise to the
24:02
Speaker 3: level of insanity under the law, which means under the
24:05
Speaker 3: old McNaughton rule, which is brought over from Great Britain,
24:09
Speaker 3: the foundation of our common law, which means case law
24:14
Speaker 3: not codified as in the Criminal Code, whether you know
24:20
Speaker 3: right or wrong at the time of nan that's all
24:24
Speaker 3: it means. Not like told mom Laurie Valo, who pretended
24:28
Speaker 3: to get crazier and crazier as the day's passed bibles.
24:30
Speaker 3: She was in jail at the time. Oh, by the way,
24:34
Speaker 3: you do know she's representing herself. Now, I would pay
24:37
Speaker 3: money to watch this, but I don't have time to
24:38
Speaker 3: go and watch that trial. But yes, she is going
24:41
Speaker 3: to represent herself.
24:43
Speaker 2: I cannot wait. But I do want to make something clear.
24:47
Speaker 3: It's about Eric Rudolph because I've been waiting for you to
24:50
Speaker 3: jump on the Rudolph bandwagon.
24:51
Speaker 2: Go ahead, but his bandwagon is relevant because there's so
24:54
Speaker 2: many similarities. But I was not in any way suggestion
24:58
Speaker 2: he was legally insane, not all. That's the reason he ran,
25:01
Speaker 2: That's the reason he hid, That's the reason he had
25:03
Speaker 2: a plan to get away with it, because he absolutely
25:06
Speaker 2: knew it was wrong, just like Rudolph knew it was
25:08
Speaker 2: wrong and had a plan to go hide in the
25:11
Speaker 2: Nandahala forest. That is part and I've said it and
25:15
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep saying it. Every step you may
25:19
Speaker 2: to commit a crime, you leave yourself open to make
25:23
Speaker 2: a mistake. So the more steps you make, the more
25:27
Speaker 2: chances we have to catch you because you're going to
25:29
Speaker 2: screw up.
25:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, the more elaborate the planning and the more elaborate
25:33
Speaker 3: the cover up. A nightmare is when it's a random
25:36
Speaker 3: act on the spur of the moment and the person
25:39
Speaker 3: just disappears. That's really hard to solve the case like that,
25:43
Speaker 3: and they do happen. Hey, you know what I was
25:44
Speaker 3: talking about. The federal charges, I mentioned a few. There
25:47
Speaker 3: are the federal complaint, added four new federal charges, shoot
25:54
Speaker 3: count secondary murderer. Oh gosh, I'm just looking the picture
25:57
Speaker 3: of him right now. Oh before I outlined the federal charges,
26:02
Speaker 3: you do know that he was out of street cloths
26:04
Speaker 3: and looking all let me just say, well, dressed in court.
26:08
Speaker 3: So he's pulling a coburger.
26:10
Speaker 2: It's gonna fail. It's every bit of it's gonna fail,
26:13
Speaker 2: just like these people that are saying he's the new
26:15
Speaker 2: Robin Hood. Robinhood killed plenty of people. That's the reason
26:19
Speaker 2: he ran in the forest in the first place. He
26:22
Speaker 2: killed the sheriff. He killed at least three that I
26:25
Speaker 2: can think of from the original book. They don't get it, Nancy,
26:29
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna say this. You know, the whole steal
26:32
Speaker 2: from the rich and give to the poor. You change
26:35
Speaker 2: the word rich with any other group and it sounds disgusting.
26:42
Speaker 3: The the other day, we were talking about and I
26:44
Speaker 3: don't even know why, Oh it was because of me
26:46
Speaker 3: and Jionie Robinhood. And someone said Robinhood never killed anyone,
26:51
Speaker 3: but actually he did. He killed the foresters. He killed
26:55
Speaker 3: fifteen foresters who mocked him and wouldn't pay him. Okay,
27:00
Speaker 3: he killed the sheriff of nodding him. I don't know
27:02
Speaker 3: who else he killed, but I know he killed those
27:04
Speaker 3: that many.
27:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a punk too.
27:07
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not going to get into tearing down Robinhood, Okay,
27:11
Speaker 3: but because we go down that path, somebody brings up
27:14
Speaker 3: Robinhood every time we talk about men ZIONI, and I'm
27:19
Speaker 3: just wondering. Go with me on this. Is that what
27:23
Speaker 3: they're going to do at trial? If they do that,
27:27
Speaker 3: they have to admit he's the killer, because you can't
27:29
Speaker 3: compare him to Robinhood if you're not admitting he's the killer.
27:33
Speaker 3: So I don't know how wise that would be, but
27:35
Speaker 3: I mean, the evidence may be so strong that they
27:37
Speaker 3: have to. I think they're going to go with mental
27:39
Speaker 3: defect and pain.
27:41
Speaker 2: I do too, because the reality is we've got a video,
27:44
Speaker 2: so there's not a lot they can do. Oh it
27:47
Speaker 2: was a mistaken identity. Oh it wasn't him. Oh he
27:50
Speaker 2: was nowhere near there. We've got him on video. So
27:54
Speaker 2: they've got to come up with something. But if they
27:56
Speaker 2: do the Robinhood defense, I would welcome that. Honey, let's
28:00
Speaker 2: please play that guard because not only would you have
28:04
Speaker 2: to admit he's the murderer, what is it going to
28:07
Speaker 2: leave you with as far as trying to wiggle out
28:09
Speaker 2: or make some kind of deal, because I do not
28:11
Speaker 2: believe that the prosecutor is going to make a deal
28:15
Speaker 2: in this case. I think the people that are quiet
28:19
Speaker 2: are going to hold more power. The only people you're
28:21
Speaker 2: hearing from are these misinformed people that want his tattoo
28:27
Speaker 2: and are saying that he's a martyr and saying he's
28:30
Speaker 2: a hero, and saying he's the new Robin Hood. Those
28:33
Speaker 2: are the only people you're hearing from. They are not
28:36
Speaker 2: the majority.
28:38
Speaker 3: That is the one thing I learned from Lewis Slayton.
28:40
Speaker 3: I learned so much from him. My boss, my beloved boss,
28:43
Speaker 3: the elected district attorney is like a grandfather of me.
28:48
Speaker 3: Never speak to the press. Never and when I would,
28:52
Speaker 3: as a prosecutor, speak when I would be caught. Let's
28:56
Speaker 3: say the same thing. I believe the jury will render
29:01
Speaker 3: a verdict that speaks the truth. Something along those lines.
29:04
Speaker 3: Have you ever noticed baseball players always say the same thing, Well,
29:08
Speaker 3: we're gonna give it all we've god, you know it's
29:10
Speaker 3: going to be tough. They say the same thing every
29:13
Speaker 3: time I do the same thing, because it's a no
29:17
Speaker 3: when if you start talking about your case, and you're right.
29:20
Speaker 3: The Feds and the prosecutors have said very very little, as.
29:24
Speaker 2: They should, but I think when they do speak, it's
29:27
Speaker 2: going to be powerful.
29:29
Speaker 3: So question to you, what are you doing for Christmas?
29:33
Speaker 2: Oh? I had just about ready believed or not. Our
29:36
Speaker 2: family we do a huge party Christmas Eve, that's the
29:40
Speaker 2: tradition that our family has. And then Christmas Morning, of course,
29:44
Speaker 2: Santa comes for all the children, and then we go
29:47
Speaker 2: to my sister Charlene's and then we go to my
29:49
Speaker 2: mother in laws, so we'll be stacked up. How about y'all,
29:54
Speaker 2: you're just gonna have a hoot, Nanny we do you.
29:58
Speaker 3: Traditionally, the Christmas the Saturday before Christmas, whatever Saturday that
30:05
Speaker 3: may be, and we have it here and we put
30:10
Speaker 3: on a big and dig and we cook it all ourselves.
30:15
Speaker 3: This year we've cooked all different sort of things. But
30:17
Speaker 3: this year, David, my beloved, is going to stay up
30:23
Speaker 3: all night smoking butt. And he's in a panic because
30:28
Speaker 3: he doesn't have enough butt, so he kiss he's going
30:31
Speaker 3: all over town kying to find Boston butts. Okay, and
30:35
Speaker 3: then we do a barbecue sauce that I can cont
30:40
Speaker 3: then let's see what. Then we have traditional size, probably
30:44
Speaker 3: sauted green beans. David's got a thing about coleslaw blah
30:49
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. Okay. Then the Graces get together on
30:53
Speaker 3: Christmas Eve and normally I make turkey, but the Greases
30:59
Speaker 3: have req did Boston butt. So we're going to do
31:02
Speaker 3: the whole thing the whole night before Christmas Eve Eve.
31:06
Speaker 3: It stept that night too, smoking Boston butts for the
31:10
Speaker 3: Grace bunch. And then there's Christmas and then there's a
31:14
Speaker 3: Christmas Eve pageant at the church where the twins don't
31:18
Speaker 3: know it yet, but they're act Tollites because you know,
31:22
Speaker 3: Lucy does not like anything to do with being in
31:26
Speaker 3: public or speaking in public, she says, very shy. So
31:30
Speaker 3: what we've learned is we have to tell them at
31:33
Speaker 3: the last minute. Like I pull up to the church
31:36
Speaker 3: in the swank mobile, the man of them, I opened
31:39
Speaker 3: the door. I let my window down about half an inch,
31:43
Speaker 3: and if she gets out, the door shuts and I'm locking. Oh,
31:46
Speaker 3: by the way, you're an actolyte, and I drive off.
31:49
Speaker 3: If we don't do it that way for a whole
31:51
Speaker 3: week or so, it will go.
31:52
Speaker 2: I don't want to do it.
31:53
Speaker 3: I don't want to be in front of everybody, blah
31:55
Speaker 3: blah blah. So that's we've learned. That's the best way
31:58
Speaker 3: to do it. So I don't tell unless she listens
32:01
Speaker 3: to crime around, and she won't know until about five
32:04
Speaker 3: minutes before they come to her with that big long
32:08
Speaker 3: robe and the rope they tire.
32:11
Speaker 2: That's so adorable.
32:12
Speaker 3: Don David's fine with it. And he's got his big
32:15
Speaker 3: long legs hanging out at the bottom because there's not
32:17
Speaker 3: no robe long enough for hell.
32:19
Speaker 2: Hey, how about that jump ball the other night? He
32:22
Speaker 2: was a foot in a mouse towering over the opponent,
32:26
Speaker 2: and I.
32:27
Speaker 3: Loved I loved that. Pet Tromas didn't get it was
32:29
Speaker 3: part of a video and I had to use all
32:31
Speaker 3: my technical prowess to steal the video get a still
32:35
Speaker 3: spot out of that. Oh, he loves basketball so much.
32:40
Speaker 3: So that's what I've got going on. And of course
32:44
Speaker 3: my mom is here. I wish my sister and her
32:47
Speaker 3: family could be here from California, but all of her
32:50
Speaker 3: children are coming to her in California. My brother is
32:53
Speaker 3: in this neck of the woods, so I hope I
32:55
Speaker 3: get to see them. But I'll see my nephew and
32:58
Speaker 3: his wife and their children and the lunches of a
33:01
Speaker 3: whole bunch of relatives. So I'm looking forward to that.
33:03
Speaker 3: Do you know, in all the years I have known David,
33:08
Speaker 3: I never had a single, not one crossword with either
33:13
Speaker 3: his mother or father, or sister or brother either one.
33:16
Speaker 2: Can you believe it?
33:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I fell on a pot of honey. I sure did.
33:20
Speaker 3: And then I think about I think about like the
33:23
Speaker 3: Kentucky moms talk about an evil mother in law, whoa
33:27
Speaker 3: and it happens a lot. I thought it was a rarity.
33:29
Speaker 3: It's not where mother in law's killed the daughter in
33:32
Speaker 3: law and vice versa.
33:34
Speaker 2: It's inside the Kentucky mom. That's how I knew She
33:38
Speaker 2: did it because when they said we were going to
33:40
Speaker 2: meet to shame the children, Because if she hadn't done it,
33:44
Speaker 2: she'd have been the first one telling God and country
33:46
Speaker 2: this piece of crab didn't show up. You know, she
33:48
Speaker 2: ain't no good, she's no kind of mama. When she
33:51
Speaker 2: didn't do that, she was my single focus.
33:54
Speaker 3: Don't you just miss those days?
33:55
Speaker 2: Do it? Riding around the car together, Yes, every freaking day.
33:59
Speaker 3: But now children, So that's somewhat of a consolation prize.
34:04
Speaker 2: Okay, I want or not.
34:05
Speaker 3: We're married, Christmas, I love you.
34:07
Speaker 2: Merry Christmas. I love you too, Sugar,