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We Bridged Cultures on Tour with Karan Ajla · Music Explored Podcast

• 0:32
  Church is the only place you can be fired but still be hired.
• 0:35
  It'd be the worst of the worst.
• 0:37
  But because you're filling a spot, if your family is a part of, like, the clergy, if your family is a part of, like, the makeup of the church and you're a son of the house, then you're gonna.
• 0:46
  Exactly.
• 0:47
  You kind of know.
• 0:48
  Yeah.
• 0:52
  All right, here we go.
• 0:53
  What's going on, my brother?
• 0:54
  Yes, sir.
• 0:55
  Ant man.
• 0:56
  Yeah, man.
• 0:57
  This is a.
• 0:58
  This is a special one.
• 0:59
  The voice that you're hearing is Mr.
• 1:01
  Sean Samuels.
• 1:02
  Oh, Lord.
• 1:03
  Grown.
• 1:04
  Man.
• 1:04
  Oh, man, I have stories for days.
• 1:06
  You better.
• 1:06
  You better pray that don't say too much on it.
• 1:09
  Go both ways, actually.
• 1:12
  Maybe I'll just mind my manners.
• 1:13
  But listen, we.
• 1:14
  Have stories.
• 1:15
  Oh, trust me, we have history.
• 1:17
  Sean, I remember.
• 1:18
  I'm gonna start off with.
• 1:19
  This is how I'm going to introduce you.
• 1:20
  When SEAN was about 15, 16 years old, he was becoming a drumming phenom in the city.
• 1:27
  We grew up in, like, same church circles, and I used to, when I started trying to get him out for gigs and events we were doing, I had to call his brother or call his mom to ask permission
• 1:40
  to get him out.
• 1:41
  I had to pick him up.
• 1:42
  I had a.
• 1:43
  I had to state what time I'd have him back home by.
• 1:46
  Oh, my gosh.
• 1:47
  Those are.
• 1:48
  Those are the days.
• 1:49
  I was actually remembering those days.
• 1:51
  Like, I was doing something.
• 1:53
  I was like, man, do you remember, like, history?
• 1:57
  That's.
• 1:58
  That's like history.
• 1:59
  Yeah,.
• 1:59
  Man.
• 2:00
  The startup, the come up.
• 2:01
  Yeah, man.
• 2:02
  Get you home late.
• 2:03
  You'd be like, yo, can you just walk me to the door and tell my mom.
• 2:07
  Exactly.
• 2:08
  Oh, my God.
• 2:09
  It.
• 2:09
  Seems like a lifetime ago, man.
• 2:10
  It's crazy, especially with how far you come now.
• 2:13
  But.
• 2:13
  Yeah.
• 2:14
  Oh, man.
• 2:14
  Grateful, man.
• 2:15
  Grateful.
• 2:16
  Oh,.
• 2:16
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:19
  You were.
• 2:19
  You were definitely a.
• 2:20
  Instrumental part of all things development, growth and.
• 2:25
  And learning for us, man.
• 2:27
  So looking forward to this chat.
• 2:29
  Let's.
• 2:29
  Do it.
• 2:30
  I'm excited.
• 2:31
  Let's go all the way back, man.
• 2:32
  Like, if you could just give us a little overview of that feeling that you used to have.
• 2:39
  Like, you know, that initial towards music.
• 2:42
  Yeah.
• 2:42
  Do.
• 2:43
  You remember where that came from?
• 2:44
  Honestly?
• 2:45
  It's like with a lot of us, it started in church, Right?
• 2:49
  Started.
• 2:49
  In church.
• 2:49
  Of course.
• 2:50
  Like,.
• 2:50
  It's all, like.
• 2:51
  It's just what it is.
• 2:52
  And the crazy thing is that usually how a lot of us got started is because somebody left or somebody went on to a different venture or something.
• 3:02
  So there was just an open Spot and that's the beauty about church is that like church is the only place where you can literally be the worst and literally start from the bottom and they'll just like thug it
• 3:15
  out because they weren't paying musicians.
• 3:18
  They didn't value like we value it today where it's just like no, we need to have the right guys in the seat.
• 3:23
  Yeah.
• 3:24
  Before it was just like it's if you're family, okay, you must know something.
• 3:29
  You had to figure it out.
• 3:30
  So I.
• 3:32
  True Holiness Apostolic Temple, I'll never forget.
• 3:35
  955 Wilson Avenue.
• 3:38
  That was the come up shout out to Kevin that he decided to do other things.
• 3:44
  And the spot was open and I just jumped into it.
• 3:48
  And then that's.
• 3:49
  At first it was just like, okay, let me just start playing because my brothers were playing.
• 3:53
  My.
• 3:53
  Brother Rohan was playing, my oldest brother, he was like the one that, he's like the first phenom of musicians in my family.
• 4:01
  Yeah.
• 4:01
  Basically phenomenon.
• 4:03
  Yeah.
• 4:03
  And the drummer, I remember he was playing at like Rayma at like such a young age.
• 4:09
  And.
• 4:10
  Yeah,.
• 4:11
  At that time Rayma had like all the heavyweights, like Larnell was there, agent then and like it's just the craziest, the crazy gu.
• 4:20
  But from there Rohan moved to, to, to base and then my cousin Dean was on keys and Ocean was just too small, my youngest brother was just too small.
• 4:29
  So then I had to just step in and then from there.
• 4:32
  I don't, I don't ever think I was a gifted musician.
• 4:35
  Like, I don't, I don't, I never considers myself a gifted musician where somebody was just like, yo, you're super gifted.
• 4:41
  Yeah.
• 4:41
  I think a lot of it for me was just like I saw it, I liked it and then I just dove right into it.
• 4:48
  And then it's just the passion grew from there.
• 4:51
  Yeah.
• 4:52
  And then getting better every day just came with you're doing it every day.
• 4:56
  So eventually.
• 4:58
  Excuse me, because you're doing it often and you're just, you continue to do it, you're gonna get better because of reps.
• 5:04
  Right.
• 5:04
  And, and again we were having church like four or five times a week, sometimes seven days a week.
• 5:10
  Right.
• 5:10
  So I was playing literally like every day at church non stop.
• 5:15
  So and then that's what got the fire.
• 5:18
  And then from there met people like Anthony.
• 5:20
  When I was like, yeah, you said 16, like Anthony.
• 5:23
  I always, I always credit, when people, when I do these interviews and people ask me, I always credit Anthony, Anthony for actually I don't know what he saw but he pulled me out of my house.
• 5:38
  Right.
• 5:39
  Come on, Marvin.
• 5:41
  Like, and he.
• 5:42
  So he gave me.
• 5:43
  I think he gave me a platform, DNA project.
• 5:45
  Gave me a platform to.
• 5:46
  To still suck, but actually try and, like, see what I can do.
• 5:51
  Hunger, man.
• 5:51
  It was hunger.
• 5:52
  Yeah.
• 5:53
  And then from there, like, we're here today.
• 5:56
  So super grateful for people.
• 5:58
  Like, it's always important to have people that could see past your own, what you think your own limitations are.
• 6:05
  That's true.
• 6:06
  And.
• 6:07
  And DNA project.
• 6:08
  Anthony as well.
• 6:09
  Athol Baker.
• 6:10
  I remember Athol Baker.
• 6:13
  Phenomenal bass player out of Toronto, too.
• 6:15
  Big.
• 6:16
  Shout out to Athol Baker.
• 6:17
  He's the one that brought me, actually, to my first, like, my first gig ever outside where I didn't, like, come back home and sleep in my bed.
• 6:25
  Like, my overnight gig in Montreal.
• 6:29
  He brought me to the first one ever in Montreal.
• 6:31
  And again, like.
• 6:32
  And it's those little things.
• 6:34
  Once you can go, once you can glimpse something, I was able to glimpse, okay, this is what this life could be.
• 6:41
  And then that.
• 6:42
  And then that, like, sparked some crazy fire.
• 6:45
  And from there it's just like, let's go.
• 6:49
  What a difference, though, man.
• 6:50
  Because, you know, obviously, growing up in church, you said you weren't really valued.
• 6:54
  You might get a patty.
• 6:55
  I mean, you're always guaranteed a patty at the end of the service if you're.
• 6:58
  If you're playing at outside church, especially.
• 7:00
  Yeah, exactly.
• 7:02
  And that was.
• 7:02
  That was about as far as it's gonna go, so.
• 7:04
  Exactly.
• 7:05
  That's it.
• 7:05
  Yeah.
• 7:06
  So it's a very different time.
• 7:07
  Different.
• 7:09
  And the idea of taking that, like, humble beginning and seeing anything even remotely beyond that wasn't even a real thing at that point.
• 7:19
  You mentioned the story of your first overnight experience.
• 7:23
  What was your first, like, I made it moment?
• 7:25
  Like, I know you probably had several since.
• 7:27
  Oh, my gosh.
• 7:28
  Do you remember the first one?
• 7:30
  Or was that it?
• 7:30
  Your overnight?
• 7:31
  Was that, like, this is it?
• 7:33
  Like, I.
• 7:33
  I don't.
• 7:34
  I still don't think, like, humbly.
• 7:35
  And I'm not, like, just trying to, like, convention talk it and just be like, oh, my humble beginning, but humbly, I.
• 7:43
  I don't think I made it.
• 7:44
  But a moment that actually, like, hit me really was when I did the Junior Awards about four or five years ago.
• 7:53
  Okay.
• 7:54
  I think was a full circle moment for me because it was something that, like, I had, like, going growing up, I had so many doubters, like, so many people that have said, like, yeah, that said, like, john, you'll
• 8:09
  never make it.
• 8:10
  You'll never do it.
• 8:11
  And then from that, like, because it wasn't just playing the Juno Awards, it was actually, like, orchestrating it as well.
• 8:17
  With.
• 8:18
  The help of my brother Kirk and my guy Icky.
• 8:22
  But that.
• 8:23
  That moment was beautiful for me because it's just like, you're playing in front of your.
• 8:28
  Your.
• 8:29
  This little church Apostolic Drummer.
• 8:31
  Where.
• 8:31
  People can only say that you're.
• 8:33
  You're playing in church, and then I'm looking out, and that was like my first, kind of like my first arena at that level.
• 8:42
  Award show type thing, where it's just like, hey, you have one shot.
• 8:45
  There's no retakes, you just gotta go, like.
• 8:48
  And I realized a lot of people were super nervous.
• 8:51
  And for me it's just like, wow.
• 8:53
  It's just like everything that I've learned up to that moment in regards to, like, church, that's what prepared me for that, where it's just like, hey, for church service, you only get one shot.
• 9:01
  There's no.
• 9:01
  Like.
• 9:04
  So, like, I think that Junior Awards in Nova Scotia was like, whoa.
• 9:08
  Like, okay, Sean, you're on.
• 9:09
  You're really on your way now.
• 9:11
  Like, something is about to happen.
• 9:12
  Like,.
• 9:13
  Yeah, yeah, that's huge, man.
• 9:15
  That's huge.
• 9:16
  That's surprising, too.
• 9:17
  So, yeah, you really.
• 9:19
  You really are humble, guy.
• 9:20
  Because a lot of people, I mean, I was expecting there might have been some smaller moments before that, but you were really just like, pretty locked in until there was something that was maybe, you know, very much outside
• 9:30
  of your norm.
• 9:31
  Yeah, it's just because I.
• 9:32
  I had.
• 9:33
  I knew what I wanted to do, honestly, and I knew everything makes.
• 9:36
  Sense.
• 9:36
  Will lead up to that, but I didn't know that that would be the.
• 9:40
  That.
• 9:41
  Yeah, but I.
• 9:42
  Knew that something, like, there's no way.
• 9:45
  Like, I made so many sacrifices.
• 9:47
  Like.
• 9:47
  And all my parents left.
• 9:49
  My.
• 9:49
  My entire immediate family moved to Edmonton.
• 9:52
  And I decided, like, yo, I'm gonna be the last one.
• 9:55
  I'm gonna stay.
• 9:55
  Because I have.
• 9:56
  Like, there's something here that I.
• 9:58
  That I don't.
• 9:59
  I could feel it.
• 10:00
  I don't know what it is, but there's something here.
• 10:02
  That,.
• 10:03
  Like.
• 10:03
  And I'm gonna stick.
• 10:04
  I'm gonna stay in Toronto and.
• 10:06
  Because I could have easily got up and left and went to Edmonton.
• 10:10
  It would have been easy to do for sure.
• 10:12
  It would have been easy.
• 10:13
  I wouldn't.
• 10:13
  There's so many things that happened to me since, like, yes, it led to this positive moment where I am in my life right now, but there's a lot of negative things, things that.
• 10:22
  That had to fight and Press through the sacrifice I had to make to stay here.
• 10:26
  Yeah.
• 10:27
  But it's.
• 10:28
  I'm grateful that I just, like, stuck to my guns.
• 10:31
  And that's kind of the story of my life, honestly, where it's just like.
• 10:34
  Like, everybody says, go right.
• 10:35
  Like, Sean is going to try and go left and see what.
• 10:38
  What's on the left side.
• 10:39
  Oh, yeah, I could vouch for that.
• 10:43
  Right.
• 10:43
  Like, I'm gonna try and see what happens and.
• 10:46
  And that's kind of like my life.
• 10:48
  And there's certain mistakes I've made, I'm sure.
• 10:51
  Like, I know I've made mistakes, but it's all.
• 10:54
  It's all the.
• 10:55
  The.
• 10:56
  The growth.
• 10:57
  Like, it's a part of the growth and things that you.
• 10:59
  Learn, lessons learned.
• 11:00
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:01
  Speaking of that, I mean, growth and lessons.
• 11:03
  I know you mentioned a few of the lessons and the preparation that came from growing up and playing in church, but what did you.
• 11:12
  What are some of the takeaways that you might have or were there any, like, real big takeaways from playing in, like.
• 11:19
  Like the outside of church, but, like, the entertainment space?
• 11:22
  So you think there are any lessons from that that you.
• 11:24
  Oh,.
• 11:24
  My gosh.
• 11:24
  I've learned at church.
• 11:26
  A million lessons.
• 11:29
  Like.
• 11:29
  I said, like, church is very.
• 11:33
  Like, church is the only place you can be fired but still be hired.
• 11:41
  Like, church is the only place where, like, you could.
• 11:44
  Like I said, you could be the worst of the worst.
• 11:46
  Yeah.
• 11:46
  But because you're filling a spot, it doesn't.
• 11:49
  Like, you're gonna stay there.
• 11:50
  You're gonna sit in the seat.
• 11:52
  If you're.
• 11:52
  If your family is a part of, like, the clergy, if your family's a part of, like, the makeup of the church and you're a son of the house, then you're gonna.
• 12:02
  Exactly.
• 12:02
  You kind of know.
• 12:04
  Yeah, right.
• 12:05
  Honestly, like, it's just a reality.
• 12:07
  It's the reality of.
• 12:08
  Of what it is if your family is a part of.
• 13:13
  Like, my uncle was the apostle.
• 13:15
  My dad was assistant pastor.
• 13:17
  My uncle was the.
• 13:18
  My.
• 13:19
  Was the minister assistant pastor.
• 13:22
  My mom was like.
• 13:23
  So we were.
• 13:24
  We were stuck.
• 13:25
  We.
• 13:25
  We were.
• 13:25
  We had to figure it out.
• 13:26
  We were locked in.
• 13:27
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:28
  Now when we skip to.
• 13:30
  So skip to, like, my again, I'll talk, like, the DNA project.
• 13:33
  There's a lot of bad habits that I had from church that I brought over to that side that did not correlate, that did not work.
• 13:42
  And so certain things, like the discipline of learning music, the discipline.
• 13:48
  Of.
• 13:49
  How you carry yourself, the discipline of, like.
• 13:51
  No, you're not the.
• 13:53
  You're not the biggest fish in that pond.
• 13:55
  Like, because at church you're the drummer and everybody's like, you're.
• 13:59
  No matter how many great drummers will fill in at your church, you're the favorite drummer.
• 14:04
  You're the best drummer that they've ever seen because you're homegrown.
• 14:07
  When you go out in the, in the entertainment world outside of church now, it's like, okay, well there's other guys and if you're not holding your weight, we're gonna sub.
• 14:19
  I mean, DNA has sat me down many times.
• 14:23
  Me trying to figure out what I wanted to do.
• 14:27
  But like, honestly, bro, but it's all to the.
• 14:30
  Like, it's to the betterment of the person.
• 14:33
  And it, it will see.
• 14:34
  Like, there's two ways you can look at it.
• 14:35
  There's one way that I could be like, yo, forget these guys and just like, whatever.
• 14:39
  Or there's one way, yo, no, you.
• 14:40
  You actually are wrong.
• 14:41
  And you need to fix up.
• 14:42
  You need to learn the music as is.
• 14:44
  You need to show up on time, your gear needs to be clean, you need to look good.
• 14:49
  Like, you need to wear.
• 14:51
  Wear the attire that we have appointed for this gig.
• 14:56
  And a lot of those things, those are the certain things that some things in church you get, you pass by.
• 15:02
  But on the other side of the world, like, it's no, these are things that actually matter.
• 15:06
  The playing is 1%.
• 15:08
  Everything else is what actually carries.
• 15:11
  Because again, on the entertainment world, there's many musicians.
• 15:14
  Good, great, bad.
• 15:15
  But you'll see the ones that make it past that next level are the ones that are super professional, that show up, that are tidy, that are respectable, that aren't overly, aren't cocky and.
• 15:29
  And they treat everybody with respect.
• 15:31
  And I think those are some of the lessons that I had to learn.
• 15:34
  Yeah.
• 15:34
  That I had to like.
• 15:36
  Like, those are the difference.
• 15:37
  Like being in church where it's just like in church again, it's like, yo, I'm the drummer of the church.
• 15:42
  I do whatever I want.
• 15:43
  I show up when I want.
• 15:44
  I can show up late because I'm still going to play.
• 15:46
  Nobody's gonna play.
• 15:47
  But in, in this world, like.
• 15:49
  Yeah, exactly.
• 15:49
  You're going to be what, you're going to wait for cry rehearsals?
• 15:52
  You're gonna wait for me anyways.
• 15:53
  So these are the certain lessons that, like, just some lessons that bad habits that I.
• 15:59
  I took over.
• 16:00
  Not intentionally, but it's just what I knew things to be.
• 16:03
  Used to that.
• 16:04
  Yeah,.
• 16:04
  I was used to it.
• 16:05
  And then it Just didn't carry over.
• 16:07
  And you.
• 16:08
  You get in trouble or you simply just get replaced.
• 16:10
  You don't even get in trouble, you just get replaced.
• 16:12
  Like,.
• 16:12
  Those are big lessons for anyone listening who's, you know, starting off.
• 16:16
  Those are some big things, some big points to consider.
• 16:20
  And I want to stay on that theme of lessons because, I mean, I don't know if it's.
• 16:24
  I'm sure it's changed over the years, but maybe, maybe we could talk wherever you want.
• 16:27
  If it's back then or now.
• 16:29
  Who are some drummers or musicians overall that you're really studying, let's say back then that you were really patterning.
• 16:36
  Patterning your sound after at that point.
• 16:38
  Yeah.
• 16:39
  So back then I was like a huge Nick Smith fan.
• 16:43
  He's a drummer from like a YouTube.
• 16:47
  Sensational kid coming up.
• 16:49
  So Nick Smith was one of my guys I actually, like, copied because again, I didn't really have mentors or whatever.
• 16:57
  Maybe I wasn't receptive to it or maybe they just weren't there.
• 17:00
  But YouTube was my mentor.
• 17:02
  So, like, I'll just.
• 17:03
  We sat on YouTube, learned all the shout licks, did everything, learn all this, and we were just a YouTube musician.
• 17:11
  University man.
• 17:12
  YouTube university man.
• 17:14
  The lesson that you learn on that is like actually crazy.
• 17:16
  But like in.
• 17:17
  In person, guys like Jonathan Kerr coming up.
• 17:21
  Yeah,.
• 17:22
  He's another great musician.
• 17:24
  Guys like Otis Williams, Larnell Lewis.
• 17:27
  These are guys that were.
• 17:30
  Were like in.
• 17:33
  In art in my time back then.
• 17:35
  And those guys, they're still like.
• 17:37
  Top.
• 17:37
  Of the top.
• 17:37
  Things.
• 17:38
  Like,.
• 17:38
  They're still top of the top.
• 17:39
  Like number one,.
• 17:40
  Some global success.
• 17:42
  Very.
• 17:42
  Like Otis Lardnell.
• 17:44
  Yeah.
• 17:45
  And John Kerr.
• 17:47
  And then as well as like some people that people may not know, like Ron Thomas, Ronnie Thomas.
• 17:51
  Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 17:53
  He's from another apostolic church that we grew up with.
• 17:55
  And Lee Croft Miller.
• 17:57
  Like Lee Croft Miller,.
• 17:58
  He.
• 17:58
  Was, he's somebody I looked up to to this day.
• 18:02
  Just great heart.
• 18:03
  He's one of the people that, like, I know when every.
• 18:06
  A lot of people are just like, Sean, you're never gonna do it.
• 18:09
  He's one of the people that have always been in my corner just pushing.
• 18:13
  So, yeah, you.
• 18:15
  You kind of need that.
• 18:16
  Like, so some of it was, yes, people like drummers, like, skill wise.
• 18:22
  But a lot of it too was like, how they push.
• 18:24
  Like Jonathan Kerr as well.
• 18:25
  Like, he's one of the people that, like, he'll show up to our little conventions and he'll play and just like, astonished by, like,.
• 18:31
  What was that.
• 18:32
  Like who's this guy?
• 18:34
  Like, and.
• 18:34
  So.
• 18:35
  People like that, like, I really looked up to coming up and then as well.
• 18:39
  Like, I'll say one more.
• 18:40
  My little brother, like, o' Shane Samos.
• 18:42
  I.
• 18:42
  That's big.
• 18:43
  Yeah.
• 18:43
  He was another.
• 18:44
  He.
• 18:45
  Another phenom, gifted musician.
• 18:47
  Now he's playing keys, he plays bass.
• 18:49
  He's the.
• 18:49
  Like, he's.
• 18:50
  He's just be something.
• 18:52
  So coming up too,.
• 18:53
  Like,.
• 18:54
  God has been good to us, man.
• 18:56
  Like, and.
• 18:57
  And like, coming up, seeing him play, him inspiring me.
• 19:01
  Like, like, yeah.
• 19:02
  I've learned a lot from him as well.
• 19:04
  So I.
• 19:05
  I like that a lot of my inspiration comes from a lot of homegrown people.
• 19:08
  Yeah.
• 19:09
  Rather.
• 19:09
  Than.
• 19:09
  It's just like, people that I can actually talk to.
• 19:12
  Yeah.
• 19:12
  On a level.
• 19:12
  Access to.
• 19:13
  So that's kind of where it started.
• 19:15
  That's big.
• 19:16
  That's big.
• 19:16
  And I know at some point your.
• 19:19
  Your role started to change.
• 19:22
  Yeah.
• 19:22
  When did you.
• 19:23
  I mean, we've worn many hats since then, but where did you feel that shift moving from, like, say, drummer, even to producer to music director?
• 19:31
  What was that like?
• 19:32
  I would never forget.
• 19:34
  I would never forget when I.
• 19:38
  I had a gig.
• 19:38
  I won't say any names.
• 19:40
  I was on.
• 19:40
  I was on a gig and.
• 19:41
  Okay,.
• 19:42
  I think I was the first call.
• 19:44
  And this is a music.
• 19:49
  This is a DNA project.
• 19:52
  This is a DNA project.
• 19:53
  Exclusive.
• 19:54
  I'll say.
• 19:55
  Okay,.
• 19:56
  So I was on a gig and, like, I was the first call.
• 20:00
  And then the next year they brought in another board player.
• 20:03
  And then after that, I was that board player, got another musician.
• 20:07
  This foregoed me completely.
• 20:09
  I'll never forget.
• 20:10
  I was in the shower.
• 20:11
  I think I was about 17, 18 around there.
• 20:15
  I was in the crowd and I was crying, like, my eyes out.
• 20:17
  Like, just like, man, like, like.
• 20:20
  But it was my first taste of, like, this is kind of what the industry is.
• 20:23
  And this was in church too, right?
• 20:25
  So this wasn't like.
• 20:25
  Yeah, yeah.
• 20:26
  This was church.
• 20:27
  Like,.
• 20:27
  Okay,.
• 20:27
  So.
• 20:28
  Yeah, so this is like.
• 20:29
  But it was like, it gave me my first taste of like, this is how harsh the industry could be.
• 20:33
  No matter how good you are, no matter.
• 20:35
  Even if you were the first.
• 20:36
  First call, even if you brought in that person.
• 20:40
  Yes.
• 20:41
  They could still.
• 20:42
  See.
• 20:42
  I'm glad it was church because people need to hear that, man.
• 20:45
  Because my first thought was, it wasn't.
• 20:47
  But I've seen it happen.
• 20:48
  I felt it happened at church.
• 20:49
  Yeah, it's.
• 20:50
  It's.
• 20:50
  It happened to me.
• 20:51
  And from that day, I was just like, I will never be that person.
• 20:56
  That's just like a secondary call or, like, I want to start making the calls.
• 21:01
  Right.
• 21:02
  And.
• 21:02
  From then, like, I.
• 21:03
  I just start to position myself around people that.
• 21:07
  That are doing, like, the musical directing role and learning.
• 21:10
  So from then, I saw things that I like, again.
• 21:12
  Like, again, experience expands your passion.
• 21:18
  And that.
• 21:19
  That.
• 21:19
  That experience pushed my passion.
• 21:21
  Okay.
• 21:21
  I want to get.
• 21:22
  I want to be at the table.
• 21:24
  Yes.
• 21:24
  Like,.
• 21:24
  I want to be.
• 21:25
  I want to advocate for us.
• 21:27
  That's big.
• 21:28
  And.
• 21:28
  And kind of like what you do or you.
• 21:31
  You're at the table.
• 21:33
  And you were.
• 21:34
  You were actually instrumental in that growth, too, seeing how you push, how you advocate for musicians, even with the pay scale and understanding.
• 21:43
  Like, I remember the start of DNA and we're carrying gear to now we're showing up and everything is there.
• 21:50
  Like,.
• 21:51
  Like, you know what I mean?
• 21:51
  Like.
• 21:52
  But you were one of the people that were very instrumental in.
• 21:55
  In me pushing.
• 21:56
  I'm like, yo, if Anthony's doing it, I could do it.
• 21:58
  Yeah, like,.
• 21:59
  Like, like, let's go.
• 22:01
  So from there, that's what pushed me into getting, like, musical directing and get into that producing.
• 22:06
  Yeah.
• 22:07
  And from there, that's like, like took off,.
• 22:11
  Right?
• 22:11
  Yeah.
• 22:12
  Doors open because now you could see past whatever it was in front of you.
• 22:17
  Yeah.
• 22:18
  And I always find this interesting because, I mean, everybody knows.
• 22:21
  Everybody has a core understanding of what it means to be a musician to a point.
• 22:25
  What it means to be a drummer, specifically.
• 22:28
  What are some of the things that a music director does that most people won't even know about?
• 22:34
  Oh, my gosh.
• 22:35
  Musical director is.
• 22:37
  You manage the band.
• 22:40
  So besides the music, forget the.
• 22:43
  Let's put the music aside.
• 22:44
  Yeah.
• 22:44
  I think everybody thinks it's like, they just like the credit of the name beside it.
• 22:49
  Musical director, this person.
• 22:51
  Yeah.
• 22:51
  Put that aside.
• 22:52
  What you're actually doing, musical directing, you're managing people, and that is hard.
• 22:58
  You're managing creatives.
• 22:59
  And we know how.
• 23:00
  I know how I am as a creator.
• 23:02
  So.
• 23:03
  Now imagine.
• 23:05
  Now imagine like, seven, eight creatives that are very emotional.
• 23:12
  Good ways.
• 23:13
  Very emotional.
• 23:13
  Very outspoken as well.
• 23:16
  Very.
• 23:17
  And they know they're talented too.
• 23:18
  So it's not like you're sitting there like, these guys are like, just losers.
• 23:21
  These are great musicians as well.
• 23:23
  Yeah.
• 23:24
  So you're really managing people.
• 23:26
  You're managing emotions.
• 23:27
  You're managing.
• 23:27
  You're managing conflicts, but you're advocating for the musicians.
• 23:33
  You're.
• 23:33
  You're the middleman between the artists or the tour manager or the management and the band.
• 23:39
  So at the same time, you're gonna have to be making calls that sometimes don't.
• 23:44
  At the forefront don't look like.
• 23:46
  Look great.
• 23:47
  But you have to play the long game.
• 23:49
  And.
• 23:50
  You have to understand, you have to see past that gig or you have to see past this opportunity to see.
• 23:57
  Okay, maybe.
• 23:58
  Okay, let's.
• 23:58
  Let's calm down on the price here, guys.
• 24:01
  And because I see a year from now, this.
• 24:04
  It could go here.
• 24:06
  Like, are you guys able to join this wagon?
• 24:09
  Like, are you guys able to.
• 24:10
  Vision casting?
• 24:10
  It's vision casting really motivating.
• 24:14
  The playing is again, like, it's 5%.
• 24:16
  Like, because for me, like, personally, I have, like, I've.
• 24:21
  I was heavy into, like, making the arrangements, and I.
• 24:24
  And I love doing that at one point, and I still love doing it.
• 24:27
  But then now it's just like, you only have capacity for so much.
• 24:31
  Right?
• 24:31
  So for me, like, the biggest.
• 24:33
  The biggest deal is that, okay, I need to make sure I'm good with the manager, management, with the artists.
• 24:38
  Make sure, like, different communication skills and styles for different people.
• 24:44
  The way I communicate with you, Anthony, is not the same way I can communicate with.
• 24:47
  With B member or C person or D person.
• 24:52
  You have to know how to communicate with each people.
• 24:54
  And these are all things on a drop of a dime.
• 24:57
  Like, there's no.
• 24:58
  Like, you just have to just know how to do it.
• 25:00
  Yeah.
• 25:01
  And that comes with experience.
• 25:02
  But I would say, like, church was the best place to do it because at least church, when I, When I took a position as like, musical director at church, remember, you're dealing with volunteers.
• 25:17
  You're dealing with people that.
• 25:18
  They.
• 25:19
  Just show up to rehearse.
• 25:20
  They don't do this on an everyday basis.
• 25:22
  So to continue to be able to motivate those type of people, it actually translates great.
• 25:25
  When you're motivating people that do it full time because they're getting paid.
• 25:30
  Right.
• 25:30
  So it's different, but like, those things from church, Church actually prepared me to help with.
• 25:35
  And there's still, like, I'm still such a rookie to this, I think, but there's still so many lessons I learned from church of managing people, managing leadership.
• 25:44
  And you just take that and you bring it into this world of, of people getting paid and people getting paid handsomely.
• 25:51
  And like, okay, how do you make sure you manage the people, manage emotions, make certain people feel that they're cared for.
• 25:58
  Again, you're not.
• 25:59
  Every decision is not going to be the favorite decision, but you kind of have to just like, stand firm and be like, yo, this is the.
• 26:06
  This is the Decision we're gonna make.
• 26:08
  Because I see a little bit further than you see because of the information.
• 26:11
  I know that you don't.
• 26:12
  Know.
• 26:13
  Exactly.
• 26:13
  Yeah.
• 26:14
  Like, so it's kind of.
• 26:15
  Kind of that stuff.
• 26:16
  Yeah, true Ambassador.
• 26:18
  Exactly.
• 26:19
  That's the greatest.
• 26:20
  Yeah, Ambassador.
• 26:22
  You know what?
• 26:23
  So you talked about the communication.
• 26:24
  Another part of that.
• 26:25
  Obviously there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes.
• 26:28
  A lot of conversations, a lot of preparation.
• 26:30
  What about on stage?
• 26:32
  Yeah.
• 26:33
  How's your communication?
• 26:34
  Like, what's your communication style on stage as far as keeping everybody together?
• 26:38
  Sometimes you got to motivate people too, and things happen in real time, so.
• 26:43
  Exactly.
• 26:45
  So for me, like on stage, I, I try to do my best to talk less because it could be a distraction.
• 26:53
  Too many voices.
• 26:55
  So perfect example for Karn Ajula, the artist I'm touring with now, he's.
• 27:00
  I have a separate top back that goes directly to the band and I have a topic that goes directly to him.
• 27:08
  So for me, like, my, my main thing is just like the way I communicate on stage for the band is really like, we have a playback engineer and now we have creative directors.
• 27:19
  Right.
• 27:19
  So now that we have people in the seat, I pull back.
• 27:23
  Right.
• 27:24
  So let people do their thing.
• 27:25
  I think what, what often happens is like some people just want to be the loudest voice in the room.
• 27:30
  But for me, like, if you have people that are taking certain roles, for me, my job is to let people be great in the role.
• 27:39
  My job is not to try to talk over people.
• 27:43
  So, like, our creative directors are the ones that call the.
• 27:46
  Okay, this song.
• 27:47
  Next song here, this song here.
• 27:49
  But for my job is like, because of my bird's eye view, I could see the entire stage.
• 27:55
  I can see the entire arena.
• 27:56
  Yeah, I'm, I'm.
• 27:57
  It's like quick things like, hey, hey, guys.
• 28:00
  You guys, we're about to watch out for this on this side, watch out for that.
• 28:05
  And that's kind of how I communicate and as well as, like when we get to that, like we play a two hour set and that set is like, it's a heavy set.
• 28:13
  It's a heavy set of non stop music.
• 28:16
  And so it's just motivation.
• 28:17
  Like, hey, guys, yo, this was great.
• 28:19
  Yo, you guys sound amazing.
• 28:21
  Or if something wants to happen on stage and something wants to happen and you just motivate like, yo, guys, we'll get the next one.
• 28:27
  It's okay.
• 28:27
  Let's go, let's go.
• 28:28
  Let's keep pushing, keep pushing.
• 28:30
  And you try to keep the place light.
• 28:31
  Keep the.
• 28:32
  Because Again, it is, it is a.
• 28:34
  It's, it's physically demanding.
• 28:35
  Like, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot.
• 28:38
  Yeah.
• 28:38
  And think about like the day that we had, like, we're up from like 9, we had call time at like 11, lobby at like 11, we had sound check at 12.
• 28:47
  We're at the arena for like, we're at the arena longer than we're on stage.
• 28:51
  Like, you know what I mean?
• 28:52
  So it's just like, it's kind of, you kind of have to just keep motivated and keep pushing and.
• 28:57
  But that's like my communication.
• 28:58
  It's less and it's less.
• 28:59
  Oh, you need to do this, you need to do that.
• 29:01
  I don't, I tried to stay away and let the people, creative directors do that stuff.
• 29:06
  Yeah.
• 29:06
  So you're empowering everybody around you to bring what they bring to the table.
• 29:11
  And then there's like, I never even thought about it till you're saying it.
• 29:14
  But there's like an element of coaching too.
• 29:17
  Yeah.
• 29:18
  Because I mean, for both of us, there's times where you're probably on stage and your whole band could be music directors themselves.
• 29:23
  Right,.
• 29:23
  Exactly.
• 29:24
  But there's still an expectation that, you know, you have your, you're, you're on it, you're catching things, you're still motivating because everyone's still human and they're probably allowing you to operate in your role as well because no one's
• 29:36
  going to step and try and you know.
• 29:37
  Exactly.
• 29:38
  Over call you and all that stuff too in your, in your preparation.
• 29:43
  I know there are still a few sides to all this communication stuff.
• 29:46
  Yeah.
• 29:46
  So, I mean, what's one of the bigger differences or some of the bigger differences between how you would prepare or communicate with the band versus preparing an artist?
• 29:58
  Yeah.
• 29:58
  So the, the cool thing.
• 30:00
  So with us, like, I'll just use this gig specifically.
• 30:04
  Yeah.
• 30:05
  With, with us, the band lives, Everybody lives in Toronto.
• 30:08
  Right.
• 30:08
  So.
• 30:09
  Yeah.
• 30:10
  And we all basically have been playing with each other for like the last five years.
• 30:13
  Four or five years.
• 30:14
  So it's like there is a camaraderie that we have off on stage and then again there's relationship off stage as well.
• 30:24
  So for me, like, preparing the band is really on the level of like, hey, okay guys, this is the music.
• 30:31
  But then let it be collaborative.
• 30:32
  Right.
• 30:34
  The problem when it's not a problem, but for the way I see things is like when everyone can take ownership of, of what they're doing, then you're going to get a better result because People feel that, like, there's
• 30:47
  a sense of ownership.
• 30:47
  There's a sense of, like, this is my part.
• 30:49
  Like, I helped build this thing.
• 30:51
  Like, you know what I mean?
• 30:52
  I agree.
• 30:53
  And that's kind of like the way I communicate with the band in regards to, like, preparations.
• 30:57
  Like, hey, guys.
• 30:57
  Okay, after the music has been created, after arrangements have been done, okay, guys, we have rehearsals, and then we have guys, like, throughout the band.
• 31:06
  They're like, hey, why don't we try this part?
• 31:07
  Why don't we try that part?
• 31:08
  Why don't we try.
• 31:09
  And it's like, you just give people.
• 31:11
  Let people.
• 31:12
  Like, this is not like a dictatorship.
• 31:14
  This is not like, oh, this just has to be Sean's arrangement.
• 31:17
  I don't care.
• 31:18
  There's no royalties from creating arrangements.
• 31:20
  So I don't know why people get so hung up on, like, yo, this is my arrangement.
• 31:23
  Like, it's like, okay, cool.
• 31:25
  Like, cool.
• 31:26
  You made it great.
• 31:27
  But I feel like you also get a better result when you get other minds in the room, because you often see things one way.
• 31:34
  Yeah,.
• 31:35
  With.
• 31:35
  With.
• 31:36
  With Karn.
• 31:37
  Now, the beauty of Karn, like, he's been at it for a while.
• 31:40
  With him, it's just really just vocal preparation.
• 31:44
  Just make sure he's rested and just make sure, hey, Karn, how you feeling today?
• 31:47
  Are you.
• 31:48
  How you feeling?
• 31:48
  And then he'll let me know, okay, I feel this way.
• 31:50
  I feel that way.
• 31:51
  And then you just continue to coach that way.
• 31:53
  Like, hey, okay, so you feel this way.
• 31:54
  Okay, how can I.
• 31:55
  Then you figure out without.
• 31:57
  It has to get to a point where they don't.
• 31:59
  Like, as a musical director, it needs to get to a point where if nobody communicates, you're still accurate.
• 32:05
  Whatever you say, still accurate to the moment.
• 32:07
  Because you kind of.
• 32:08
  You've studied the people,.
• 32:10
  Right?
• 32:10
  And for me, like, I.
• 32:11
  I know, Karen, to a point now where he doesn't have to say anything to me.
• 32:15
  Like, I just sense by his vibe, even a look that he gives me.
• 32:19
  I'm like, okay, yo, this is where he's at right now.
• 32:21
  Yeah.
• 32:21
  Even when we're in meetings.
• 32:23
  If we're in meetings and he's not feeling something, he could just look.
• 32:25
  There's a look that he will just look.
• 32:27
  Or you just smile me.
• 32:29
  Okay, cool.
• 32:29
  Okay, guys, let's.
• 32:30
  Let's try this way.
• 32:33
  And because again, as a musical director, you take a lot of the heat as well.
• 32:37
  Like, when things aren't.
• 32:39
  When things aren't right, it's.
• 32:40
  It's on you.
• 32:41
  So I.
• 32:42
  Think.
• 32:42
  Yeah,.
• 32:42
  Yeah.
• 32:43
  So it's like, if.
• 32:44
  And you have to just take that on the chin.
• 32:46
  And I've taken it many times where it's just like, okay, Sean, that was.
• 32:50
  Wasn't the best call.
• 32:52
  And regardless if it was my fault or not, you just have to.
• 32:56
  That's your job.
• 32:57
  It's a part of the job.
• 32:58
  Right.
• 32:58
  So with the preparation, like with Karm, we talk back and forth and about arrangements and stuff.
• 33:04
  And as well, we work with the producer.
• 33:07
  His name is I Ikki, and he's a huge producer, so which is great too, because he actually makes the music.
• 33:14
  So a lot of the stuff, too, He's.
• 33:15
  He's very hands on as well.
• 33:17
  So it does make my job easier.
• 33:19
  And then as well, I have to understand that there's already connection.
• 33:24
  There's already a deeper connection between the producer and the artist, then the musical director, then the artist.
• 33:30
  So I have to know, like, okay, when they're in their discussions, Sean, pull back, let them lock in, and then reassert yourself and then ask your questions.
• 33:39
  But that's kind of how I prepare with.
• 33:41
  With them.
• 33:42
  Yeah.
• 33:42
  Wow.
• 33:43
  So, yeah, you've definitely learned a lot from this experience.
• 33:46
  I mean, absolutely.
• 33:47
  This one specifically, while we're talking about it.
• 33:49
  Yeah.
• 33:51
  Here's a.
• 33:52
  Here's a quick question for you.
• 33:53
  What.
• 33:53
  I mean, what is change?
• 33:55
  Okay.
• 33:55
  Not.
• 33:55
  Let me say it this way.
• 33:56
  Has music directing changed your perspective to how you approach drumming?
• 34:03
  Yeah.
• 34:04
  Stay out the way.
• 34:06
  Like, it's not about.
• 34:07
  Okay, okay.
• 34:08
  That's a big one.
• 34:08
  That's a big one.
• 34:09
  Yeah.
• 34:09
  It's not about you.
• 34:10
  Play your part, do the part.
• 34:14
  Don't get.
• 34:15
  Don't get bored playing the same thing over and over again.
• 34:20
  I think, because oftentimes as.
• 34:22
  Again, creatives, like, we.
• 34:23
  Our minds go, like, we get bored easily.
• 34:25
  Like, we.
• 34:26
  You're playing the same thing.
• 34:27
  It's just like, okay.
• 34:29
  But.
• 34:29
  Then now that you know the vision of the entire show with the creative direction.
• 34:35
  Because I'm in the creative direction meetings as well, like in regards to.
• 34:38
  With the.
• 34:38
  With the creative directors and the artists and.
• 34:40
  Yeah.
• 34:41
  Put my opinions in as well, because, you know, the entire show is like, okay, yo, it's.
• 34:47
  It's not about you.
• 34:48
  I always.
• 34:48
  I always think this.
• 34:49
  I'm like, yo, if.
• 34:51
  If.
• 34:52
  If I'm not there, that the show still goes on.
• 34:55
  If artist is not there, the show's canceled.
• 34:58
  Right.
• 34:58
  So,.
• 34:59
  Yeah.
• 34:59
  Yeah,.
• 34:59
  I'm nothing.
• 35:01
  I'm actually nothing.
• 35:02
  I.
• 35:02
  Somebody could sub me out,.
• 35:04
  And.
• 35:04
  That's fine.
• 35:06
  I know the.
• 35:07
  It's not me.
• 35:07
  Diminishing.
• 35:08
  My value.
• 35:08
  I know my value and what I bring to the table.
• 35:10
  But.
• 35:11
  It's the reality of like your people get sub people.
• 35:14
  Yeah.
• 35:14
  People move on to different ventures.
• 35:17
  People die.
• 35:18
  Like it's.
• 35:18
  These are.
• 35:19
  This is.
• 35:19
  Life.
• 35:20
  Like.
• 35:20
  Things happen.
• 35:21
  So true.
• 35:22
  So I know for sure that for me it's like as it.
• 35:27
  For drumming wise, it's just like, yo, stay, play your part.
• 35:29
  That's it.
• 35:30
  Like if they're.
• 35:31
  If they're only asking you.
• 35:32
  If the song is only asking for you to play this simple beat.
• 35:36
  The simple beat is.
• 35:38
  Is what makes the song what it is.
• 35:40
  Like if the producer produces me a certain way, like the art, once you play that beat, that kick, that snare, the audience is gonna directly connect to it.
• 35:48
  And that's what gets people in the seat, gets people moving.
• 35:51
  And then again it goes on to the next show.
• 35:54
  I mean.
• 35:54
  Oh man.
• 35:54
  Like that the band was tight.
• 35:56
  Like.
• 35:56
  Yes.
• 35:58
  Like, how many people are there to see me play?
• 36:00
  Like two.
• 36:02
  Like, and that's if I bring Leah and Elijah, my kids.
• 36:06
  Nobody's there to see me.
• 36:07
  Like the bigger.
• 36:10
  Playing your role.
• 36:11
  Exactly.
• 36:12
  And that's what it is.
• 36:13
  That's how.
• 36:13
  So musical.
• 36:14
  That can help with that.
• 36:15
  Yeah,.
• 36:15
  That's the drumming in regards to drumming and like being intentional about what you're playing, the sounds that you're using, taking the extra time to understand the symbol choices, things that you choose, the drums that you saw, the drums
• 36:31
  that you're using, like all those things are like, they help.
• 36:36
  Yeah.
• 36:36
  So it's more technical for sure.
• 36:38
  Very, very technical.
• 36:39
  Yeah.
• 36:40
  And I could see how that would completely change your approach too.
• 36:44
  So we've mentioned this, you've mentioned his name a few times.
• 36:48
  Karan Ajla.
• 36:49
  Right, Talk us about.
• 36:53
  Okay, first of all, just for anyone who doesn't know, because I know it's sort of.
• 36:56
  He's a specific sort of artist.
• 37:00
  Talk to us kind of about the scale.
• 37:02
  Like what's like the biggest show you've played as far as crowd.
• 37:08
  So Carnagela is a South Asian artist.
• 37:11
  His.
• 37:12
  The.
• 37:13
  The genre that he plays, I'll say is like hip hop, R B, pop.
• 37:17
  It's very.
• 37:18
  It's just.
• 37:19
  The language is in.
• 37:20
  Is Punjabi, Hindi.
• 37:23
  Like just the differences, the language.
• 37:25
  That's a beautiful thing, beautiful thing about music.
• 37:26
  Music speaks across all languages.
• 37:29
  I don't speak.
• 37:30
  It's universal.
• 37:31
  I don't speak Hindi, I don't speak Punjabi.
• 37:32
  But I play the shows.
• 37:35
  So our biggest show that we did so far, we did 70000 in Delhi,.
• 37:41
  I.
• 37:41
  Think.
• 37:42
  And then we did like another like, I think it was like 40 or 50, 000 in Chandigarh.
• 37:48
  Major scale.
• 37:50
  Yeah, major scale.
• 37:51
  Major.
• 37:51
  Scale.
• 37:52
  I know.
• 37:52
  We did two nights this year.
• 37:54
  We did two nights at Scotiabank.
• 37:57
  Two back to back nights, sold out.
• 38:00
  So it's like, that's like in total like 40, 000.
• 38:04
  So it's like, yeah, we kind of like, he's, he's, he's up there.
• 38:07
  Like, he's, he's pretty big.
• 38:09
  Pretty big.
• 38:10
  Pretty big.
• 38:11
  Solid, solid artist.
• 38:13
  He writes great music, um, produces.
• 38:18
  Yeah, it's a great opportunity.
• 38:20
  And again, like, I know there's some people that told me when I first got the gig, it's like, yeah, Sean, I don't know if this is the great gig for you.
• 38:26
  I was just like, ah, let me see.
• 38:28
  And.
• 38:28
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:31
  I'm gonna go left.
• 38:32
  I'm gonna go left.
• 38:33
  Let's see.
• 38:35
  So you know what?
• 38:35
  So talk us about.
• 38:37
  I mean, it's a huge opportunity.
• 38:38
  We kind of skipped somewhere in the middle.
• 38:40
  So what was it like?
• 38:41
  Like the.
• 38:42
  How did it come to be?
• 38:43
  Like talk us through a phone call or whatever it was that happened.
• 38:46
  Yeah.
• 38:46
  So again, shout out to iy Actually, I start from the beginning.
• 38:51
  Shout out to Matt and Cole from Coalition Music.
• 38:54
  They're the one that introduced me to Iki.
• 38:57
  And then Icky came to me.
• 38:59
  Iki came to the band.
• 39:00
  We were praying for this artist named Preston.
• 39:02
  Okay.
• 39:02
  And I believe Icky got signed recently.
• 39:04
  I'm not sure, but he heard us and he's like, yo, we've built a relationship.
• 39:09
  And then he came to us like, yo, there's this artist named Kala.
• 39:13
  He's doing this like little tour and whatever.
• 39:15
  And like, if you want, like, if you want to, if you guys want to do it, I think this would be a good look to merge like different cultures and stuff and bring something again.
• 39:24
  He was a visionary.
• 39:25
  Like, for him to see, like, he saw this back then and I was just like, okay, cool.
• 39:31
  I didn't think of nothing, like, of it.
• 39:32
  Yeah.
• 39:33
  So we started doing little arrangements and then from there, just.
• 39:37
  The first tour didn't work out.
• 39:40
  It just didn't work out.
• 39:41
  They were already mid tour.
• 39:43
  It just didn't work out.
• 39:44
  So that it went quiet for a little bit.
• 39:47
  And then I got a call from Icky's like, yo, Sean, can you like add some music or arrangements to this?
• 39:55
  Like we're gonna do Juno Awards.
• 39:57
  And.
• 39:57
  I was like, okay, sure.
• 39:59
  So I called Kirk.
• 40:00
  Kirk did the arrangement literally in like four hours.
• 40:03
  He called Me, he's like, joshua, here is it.
• 40:05
  And I sent it to Icky and I said, and they're like, oh, this is great.
• 40:08
  And then from there we did the Juno Awards.
• 40:11
  And that's why, like, the thing is, like, treat everything like it's the biggest thing in the world, right?
• 40:18
  Like never going to opportunity.
• 40:20
  And this was the one thing I had to learn.
• 40:22
  Like, even when, like I was in the, like even at the starting of the DNA project, as I got comfortable,.
• 40:28
  Is.
• 40:28
  When I started just like, yeah, it's just another gig.
• 40:31
  Like, whatever.
• 40:31
  Like,.
• 40:32
  Naturally.
• 40:32
  Yeah,.
• 40:33
  Naturally.
• 40:33
  And.
• 40:33
  But the problem is, like, you cannot do that, right?
• 40:38
  Because every gig is a special opportunity.
• 40:40
  No matter if it's 5, 000 people, 50, 000 people, or 5 people, you just don't know who's in the room.
• 40:45
  You don't know who's seeing.
• 40:47
  So we did the Juno Awards.
• 40:49
  And I remember driving back.
• 40:52
  No, we did, we did a rehearsal at DC Music with the artists.
• 40:58
  And it was a cool rehearsal.
• 41:00
  Like, it was cool.
• 41:02
  And then we did the sound check.
• 41:05
  And then I remember walking to the Junior sound check and everybody's looking at us like, who are these guys?
• 41:09
  Like, we did the sound check.
• 41:11
  Everybody was just like, wow.
• 41:13
  Like, I remember driving back with management.
• 41:16
  I don't know how I ended up in that car.
• 41:19
  And.
• 41:20
  The management's like, hey, Shawn.
• 41:21
  Yo.
• 41:22
  We really like you guys.
• 41:24
  Yo.
• 41:24
  We're gonna be touring like the world next year, this year.
• 41:28
  Wow.
• 41:29
  And from there, that was it.
• 41:30
  And it's.
• 41:30
  That's been.
• 41:31
  That was like three, four years ago.
• 41:32
  Now.
• 41:33
  And then, and then we're just, we just continue to like push through.
• 41:36
  And now we're here, like, and, and.
• 41:38
  But that was just, literally, you just put your all into it.
• 41:41
  It doesn't.
• 41:41
  It didn't matter if he wasn't from my background, my culture.
• 41:45
  Yeah.
• 41:46
  I just said, yo, let's, let's do it.
• 41:48
  Let's try it.
• 41:49
  Like, what do we have to lose?
• 41:50
  If it doesn't work, it doesn't work out.
• 41:51
  But at least there's an experience that we gain from it.
• 41:54
  And then we've been touring ever since.
• 41:56
  Like,.
• 41:56
  Wow.
• 41:56
  And it's been crazy.
• 41:58
  Wow.
• 41:59
  I think you answered one of my questions I was going to ask you about.
• 42:02
  I mean, with the cross cultural thing.
• 42:05
  Yeah, you answered it, but I was going to ask you how you earned the trust of musicians, you know, with respect to his background and fans.
• 42:14
  But I think you said that my.
• 42:15
  I think what you told me just now is just by, by, by going all in on it.
• 42:20
  Go,.
• 42:20
  Go all in.
• 42:21
  Like, once they see that you care.
• 42:23
  Yeah.
• 42:23
  And you value what they value and you.
• 42:26
  And you have the same values as well.
• 42:28
  Yeah.
• 42:29
  Then it'll be like, that's how you gain the trust.
• 42:32
  And then you just continue to push and, and for me, just being.
• 42:35
  And being entire.
• 42:36
  Yeah, that, that helps too.
• 42:38
  But like, but then as well, like on the flip side is like your honesty, like just being honest.
• 42:43
  The integrity, the character aspect of it.
• 42:46
  Like, yo, are you.
• 42:46
  The music or just.
• 42:48
  Of the person?
• 42:49
  Right.
• 42:50
  Because remember, they buy into like the music is the first thing they hear.
• 42:53
  Like, these guys can play.
• 42:56
  But secondly, remember the culture.
• 42:58
  The great thing about South Asian culture is that they're very family oriented.
• 43:03
  So they're, they're basically like, like us, like Jamaicans and Caribbean and Afro, like, very family oriented and they like to keep things in the family.
• 43:13
  Very loyal.
• 43:15
  So like, they saw that, like, we're.
• 43:17
  We as a band, we're loyal.
• 43:18
  Like, it's okay.
• 43:19
  Like, we're, we're gonna ride out.
• 43:21
  Like, we don't care what people have to say.
• 43:23
  Yeah.
• 43:23
  And then that carried over to now we're actually literally doing like, I remember they flew me out for like a three minute show.
• 43:31
  They flew me to India for a three minute show.
• 43:33
  I did the show and then flew back that night.
• 43:35
  Like, it's.
• 43:36
  Like.
• 43:36
  But,.
• 43:37
  But that's like, I look at that stuff as like just trust because they could have caught anybody out there to do.
• 43:41
  Yeah, that's true.
• 43:42
  Yeah.
• 43:42
  But you.
• 43:43
  Know what I mean, like, exactly.
• 43:44
  Right?
• 43:44
  So, yeah, that's kind of how you have to build with artists.
• 43:47
  Because artists, remember, artists, they think different.
• 43:49
  They don't think like us.
• 43:51
  Yeah.
• 43:51
  Like, they're not like, like artists are just different.
• 43:54
  And you have to be able to break that barrier.
• 43:57
  And I was able to do it.
• 43:59
  The band was able to fully understand and we were able to.
• 44:02
  To lock in.
• 44:03
  I'm gonna quote my guy, Jaden Baker.
• 44:06
  He said something basically what you're saying.
• 44:08
  Yeah.
• 44:08
  He said talent gets you in the door, but your character, that gets you the callbacks and keeps you in that door, in that room.
• 44:15
  Exactly.
• 44:16
  That's it right there.
• 44:19
  One more question about this specific music.
• 44:21
  I'm curious because, you know, I don't know what to call it, but let's say Punjabi music is known for like, it's certain very specific, like rhythm notes.
• 44:33
  How did you approach that?
• 44:34
  Was that.
• 44:35
  Did playing gospel help or hurt or was there any overlap for you?
• 44:39
  No, honestly, gospel did help because in gospel music, we play to, like, click tracks and loops and all that stuff.
• 44:45
  And.
• 44:46
  And it's not obviously the same as, like, Bangla drums and dolls and stuff like that, but it's still a loop that we play to.
• 44:53
  And then the whole thing, when you're playing to loop, you lock in with the loop.
• 44:56
  You.
• 44:56
  And how loops.
• 44:57
  Loops have subdivisions and loops sway here and there depending on the song.
• 45:01
  And again, in church, we play every type of time signature.
• 45:04
  Like, from 9, 8, we play 3, 4, we play 6, 8, we play 4, 4, we play the church mother that got a song in her spirit that she thinks she thought she wrote.
• 45:16
  Yeah.
• 45:17
  And we just had to learn it right there, right on the spot.
• 45:21
  So church prepared us for that.
• 45:23
  So, like, the approach that I had to.
• 45:26
  That was again, I came into the situation with, like, okay, this is how I'm gonna play.
• 45:32
  But then I also had to humble myself to be, like, to the producer, like, hey, like, how do you guys hear this?
• 45:38
  Like, am I playing it right?
• 45:39
  He's like, no, you're playing it right.
• 45:41
  But just, like, sway a little bit on the hi hat.
• 45:43
  I'm like, oh, shoot, I didn't even notice.
• 45:45
  Or like, yo, pull back.
• 45:46
  Watch your kicks.
• 45:47
  Like, your kicks.
• 45:48
  Like, don't fill in the space where there's no kick.
• 45:52
  Don't play the exact same kick.
• 45:54
  Because the.
• 45:55
  The.
• 45:56
  The pattern that it's doing is very specific to the movement.
• 45:59
  So I had to sit there, humble myself and be like, yo, Sean, shut up.
• 46:03
  You don't know anything.
• 46:04
  That's a good approach to learning.
• 46:06
  Yeah,.
• 46:06
  Right.
• 46:07
  And.
• 46:07
  And just forever be a student.
• 46:08
  Like.
• 46:09
  And for me, it's like.
• 46:10
  So that was kind of my approach.
• 46:11
  Until, again, like, the gospel background, the church background helps because then you're also.
• 46:15
  You're also bringing your own flavor to it.
• 46:19
  One comment I always got, I see online is like, sean, how do you, like.
• 46:23
  Like, how did you, like, fuse them?
• 46:26
  I'm like, I don't know.
• 46:27
  I'm just playing church.
• 46:31
  I'm playing a church.
• 46:33
  I'm right at home.
• 46:34
  Right?
• 46:34
  So.
• 46:35
  But, yeah, those are the certain things I had to, like, actually sit down with the producer and be like, hey, buddy, like, what do you think?
• 46:42
  How is this?
• 46:43
  Send him recordings.
• 46:44
  He'll send me back.
• 46:46
  He will send me back.
• 46:47
  Things being like, yo, Sean, that wasn't right.
• 46:49
  Like, that didn't sound right.
• 46:51
  Like that.
• 46:51
  I'm talking about, like, videos from shows, too, right?
• 46:54
  Like, not just.
• 46:54
  Rehearsals.
• 46:56
  Yeah.
• 46:57
  Like, Sean, that wasn't right.
• 46:58
  But I'm like, I don't.
• 47:00
  I'm not offended.
• 47:01
  There's no ego.
• 47:02
  Like, okay, cool.
• 47:03
  Like, so how do I fix it?
• 47:04
  And.
• 47:04
  Then I'll be like, okay, cool.
• 47:06
  And then the next show he'd be like, yeah, Sean, that's perfect.
• 47:08
  But that's kind of the,.
• 47:09
  That's big.
• 47:10
  Yeah,.
• 47:10
  Like, that's, that's kind of the, the path I took rather than trying to, like, know it all.
• 47:16
  But I also listen to, like, other drummers and like, now I, I, I have friends in the indie in, in India as well that play this music that I could get feedback from.
• 47:28
  Like, hey, what do you think?
• 47:29
  No, Sean, do this, do that, and, and that's how you continue to develop the sounds super.
• 47:35
  Useful.
• 47:36
  That's big, man.
• 47:37
  I like what you said when you, you said basically, you have to approach this as a student and just.
• 47:42
  You don't know anything.
• 47:43
  Exactly.
• 47:44
  One of the, one of the hacks to learning is actually just forgetting everything that you thought you knew and.
• 47:49
  Exactly.
• 47:50
  With a clean slate.
• 47:51
  So that's huge.
• 47:52
  That's big, man.
• 47:54
  Well, I'm gonna let you get out of here, but I have a couple more questions for you.
• 47:56
  Yeah,.
• 47:57
  Let's do it.
• 47:57
  I mean, thanks for your time, man.
• 47:59
  This has been great.
• 48:00
  It's been cool to catch up and get a little anything.
• 48:02
  For DNA, you know.
• 48:03
  That.
• 48:04
  Yeah, your, your, your career.
• 48:06
  Proud of you too, man.
• 48:07
  You've done some big things.
• 48:08
  There's a lot more to come.
• 48:09
  I'm just looking forward to seeing and hearing about it.
• 48:12
  But what's next for you?
• 48:13
  Is there anything you can share?
• 48:16
  What's next?
• 48:17
  Honestly, I head back on the road, so we have this Rolling Loud festival in India and then we have a couple more festivals.
• 48:30
  I'm really trying to get heavier into the musical directing role.
• 48:34
  Like, trying to go at it full force.
• 48:35
  Not just playing as well, not just playing every gig, but actually, like.
• 48:40
  And then as well as the creative directing side.
• 48:42
  So I'm doing.
• 48:43
  So I'm getting to that.
• 48:44
  I have some opportunities coming up for those as well.
• 48:49
  Church.
• 48:50
  I'm heavy in church.
• 48:52
  My church serves City church.
• 48:55
  I think it's one of the greatest churches in, in the city of Toronto.
• 49:00
  So I have a leadership role there as a pastor as well, and then as well, the worship coordinator, a worship pastor there as well.
• 49:09
  So there's a lot of things.
• 49:11
  And then my kids are growing.
• 49:12
  Up,.
• 49:13
  So it's just like.
• 49:15
  Being.
• 49:15
  A father, being a husband.
• 49:16
  Like, so these are the things that, in my immediate future.
• 49:20
  But yeah, there's, I mean, you know how the industry goes.
• 49:23
  Like, one Day.
• 49:24
  Yeah.
• 49:25
  We're gonna do this in two days.
• 49:26
  You're gone for six months.
• 49:27
  Yeah.
• 49:27
  And it's like.
• 49:28
  It's just opportunities come, and so I just want to make sure that I'm always prepared mentally, emotionally, physically.
• 49:36
  I think that's one thing that we don't talk about often in as musicians, man.
• 49:40
  It's.
• 49:40
  Like,.
• 49:41
  How many musicians have been, like, dying.
• 49:43
  How many musicians have.
• 49:44
  Been.
• 49:45
  Dying emotionally?
• 49:46
  Dying physically, actually, mentally.
• 49:50
  And I think one thing that we have to.
• 49:53
  And I know Anthony's, like, a workout guru, and.
• 49:56
  He's.
• 49:56
  One of the guys.
• 49:57
  I've never seen Anthony, like, upset, like, ever.
• 50:00
  So I don't know, like, what you drink, you need to share that with the world.
• 50:03
  I drink meditation and prayer.
• 50:06
  But, like,.
• 50:07
  I.
• 50:07
  Think.
• 50:07
  I.
• 50:07
  Hope.
• 50:08
  I hope one day you have that segment where you could bring somebody in to really, if you haven't done it already, to talk about, like, holistic.
• 50:15
  That's a.
• 50:15
  Healing musicians.
• 50:16
  Right.
• 50:16
  Because we're literally like.
• 50:19
  Musicians are dying.
• 50:20
  Either it's like, high blood pressure.
• 50:22
  Like, these guys are on the road.
• 50:24
  Eating right.
• 50:25
  You're not eating right.
• 50:26
  You're.
• 50:27
  How many marriages are going down the drain?
• 50:29
  How many.
• 50:30
  Like, these are things that, like, for me, like.
• 50:32
  And that's another venture I want to get into as well, is like, how do we heal musicians?
• 50:38
  Right.
• 50:38
  How do we heal the creative.
• 50:41
  And.
• 50:41
  Bring it back to life?
• 50:42
  But, like, that's kind of like my.
• 50:45
  I don't know how I got here, but that's kind of like my heart.
• 50:48
  For,.
• 50:48
  Like, musicians, because it's like I'm seeing it all too often where people are, like, dying either way.
• 50:56
  They're dying somewhere.
• 50:57
  Different ways.
• 50:58
  Yeah.
• 50:58
  We're gonna.
• 50:59
  Come.
• 50:59
  Back.
• 50:59
  We're gonna have to come back to that, man.
• 51:00
  We're.
• 51:01
  Yeah.
• 51:01
  Together.
• 51:01
  And you gotta.
• 51:02
  Do it.
• 51:03
  Absolutely.
• 51:04
  Talk about that.
• 51:04
  Maybe a couple people.
• 51:06
  So passionate about that.
• 51:07
  Yeah.
• 51:08
  Yeah.
• 51:08
  I mean, you're.
• 51:09
  With one.
• 51:09
  Of the guys.
• 51:10
  I see it.
• 51:10
  Doing.
• 51:11
  See doing it in as far as physically in the mindset with Onishin.
• 51:17
  I definitely see his journey, too.
• 51:18
  And I know you're with him on that, so maybe he's one of the guys to bring on to that.
• 51:22
  Yeah.
• 51:23
  Defin.
• 51:24
  I remember, like, Ocean being, like, super ocean starting this thing.
• 51:29
  Yeah.
• 51:29
  And then to see where.
• 51:30
  Ocean.
• 51:30
  You just ran a 40.
• 51:32
  A marathon.
• 51:33
  43K, 42K.
• 51:35
  Yeah.
• 51:36
  Right.
• 51:36
  And.
• 51:36
  And you would never think.
• 51:37
  But that's, like, consistency.
• 51:39
  I remember even, like, my blood pressure was high, and I had to, like, completely switch things and be like, okay, what is going on?
• 51:46
  Health,.
• 51:47
  Anxiety, through the roof.
• 51:48
  Like all these things.
• 51:49
  That.
• 51:49
  I had to be like, okay, yo, what do.
• 51:50
  Okay, what's going on here?
• 51:52
  And at the end of the day, like when the tour is done, you still have to go home.
• 51:56
  That's true.
• 51:57
  And you still have to deal with these things face on, like,.
• 51:59
  Head off.
• 51:59
  Yeah, they're not going to go away.
• 52:01
  They're.
• 52:01
  Not going away, definitely because there is the touring woes when, when the tour ends, you don't know what to do with your life and.
• 52:09
  And depression kicks in.
• 52:10
  Those are real things, bro.
• 52:12
  But yeah, we, we should definitely get into that.
• 52:14
  We're going to dive into.
• 52:15
  That, to be a part of that.
• 52:16
  All right, we're going to do.
• 52:17
  That's the part two, man.
• 52:19
  For sure, for sure.
• 52:21
  Okay, I'm gonna leave on this note.
• 52:23
  Yeah, yeah.
• 52:24
  What are some words that you would give to the 16 year old drummer that's listening or oh.
• 52:30
  My gosh.
• 52:30
  That runs up to you on the street or after a show or something like that?
• 52:34
  Oh.
• 52:35
  Without getting emotional, the 16 year old drummer, I would say, man, like, just lock in, man.
• 52:46
  Like it's, it's.
• 52:47
  You're gonna make mistakes, but try and find that person.
• 52:52
  Like, they don't need to be the most famous person, but try to find the.
• 52:56
  Try to find that person or people that literally like, can.
• 53:01
  Can push you along.
• 53:03
  For me, that, that, that was the DNA project.
• 53:06
  The, the people from the DNA, Anthony, you, Daniel, Mike, a lot of the people that I didn't like, I didn't.
• 53:17
  I never thought that these are going to be the people that you never think these are the people that are going to be in your corner pushing you.
• 53:23
  I get that.
• 53:24
  But like finding people that literally like, are pushing you, that are honest with you, but as well understanding.
• 53:31
  You're 16, you're gonna make mistakes.
• 53:34
  Like, you're going to make bad calls.
• 53:37
  You're.
• 53:37
  You're going to do things not the proper way, but give yourself grace to grow.
• 53:43
  But like, let your passion drive everything.
• 53:46
  Let the passion drive.
• 53:48
  Don't worry.
• 53:48
  Don't worry about the money, don't worry about all those things.
• 53:51
  Don't worry about whatever, like what Instagram is telling you.
• 53:56
  Because by that time right now, Instagram is driving people to hell and especially driving people into like, things that they can't even like into goals and achievement that they will never achieve because it's actually how that person got
• 54:08
  to that place.
• 54:09
  Yeah,.
• 54:09
  You will.
• 54:10
  You wouldn't be able to do that.
• 54:12
  Right.
• 54:13
  So for me, it's just like, yeah, 16 year old, yo, just lock in, find the people like, and then just again, focus on just giving yourself grace to grow.
• 54:22
  But the main thing is that Keep playing, keep playing, just play.
• 54:26
  It doesn't matter what the dollar, because now you're seeing 17 and 16 year old in our time, back in the day, we weren't worried about $100.
• 54:34
  Gig.
• 54:35
  You're just playing.
• 54:36
  We're just playing.
• 54:37
  But nowadays, 16 year olds are getting like 3, 4, $500.
• 54:42
  Just times have changed and money's driving these things.
• 54:45
  But.
• 54:46
  Then that's so funny.
• 54:47
  You're killing opportunities because what's driving you is wrong.
• 54:52
  So it's just like the Bible.
• 54:54
  Says.
• 54:54
  The Bible says.
• 54:56
  The Bible doesn't say money is the rule of all evil.
• 54:58
  The Bible says the love of money.
• 55:00
  Is it real?
• 55:01
  Yeah.
• 55:02
  So it's like, what is that thing between the money that's driving you to where you want to go?
• 55:10
  Like if.
• 55:10
  Yeah,.
• 55:11
  I let the passion drive you let the.
• 55:13
  I want to get better every day.
• 55:14
  Like, look at people, like, come to me.
• 55:16
  Like, I'm very open book.
• 55:18
  Like, anybody watching this, like, hit me on Instagram, hit me wherever.
• 55:21
  I'm very open to, to help in whatever way I can and be that person that Anthony was to me, to somebody else.
• 55:28
  That's big, man.
• 55:29
  I mean, great chance to let people know where to find you.
• 55:33
  Yeah.
• 55:34
  So Instagram, Sean Samson.
• 55:37
  I'm a lot.
• 55:38
  I'm heavy on Instagram, Facebook, Sean Samuels.
• 55:42
  My email, Sean Samuelsmusic gmail.com hit me for anything, any and anything.
• 55:47
  And I'm here at your service,.
• 55:49
  Big man.
• 55:50
  Man, I really appreciate you, man.
• 55:51
  Like I said, super proud of you, bro.
• 55:53
  All the things I know, this is just, you're just getting started.
• 55:56
  So I'm here for it.
• 55:58
  And I'm, I'm happy, man, because I know we had.
• 56:02
  I mean, life happens.
• 56:03
  You got busy with projects.
• 56:04
  Yeah.
• 56:04
  Yeah.
• 56:05
  I'm actually really happy and grateful that we're back to working together.
• 56:08
  Yeah.
• 56:09
  Excited for some of the things that we have coming up.
• 56:11
  Yes, sir.
• 56:12
  So let's go, man.
• 56:15
  Yeah.
• 56:15
  Thank you again.
• 56:16
  Hope everyone enjoyed this interview.
• 56:17
  Full of gems from great, humble guy.
• 56:20
  Next time, I'll do the talking and I'll.
• 56:22
  I'll tell it the way that I see it.
• 56:25
  Yeah.
• 56:25
  Yeah.
• 56:26
  I won't be here for that.
• 56:29
  I appreciate you, man.
• 56:30
  All right.
• 56:31
  Appreciate you.
• 56:32
  All right, thanks for listening, everybody.
• 56:34
  Have a great one.
• 56:34
  Take care of yourselves.
• 56:45
  Sam.