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Ayaan Hirsi Ali Shocks Richard Dawkins with Her Powerful Defense of God! · Brett Keane and Eve Show

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  Hi guys, get ready for a powerful intellectual debate
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  between two iconic figures, doctor Richard Dawkins and ayaan
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  hirsi Ali watches ayaan, a former atheist, passionately
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  defends the love of God against Dawkins arguments this is a
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  discussion that challenges both faith and reason let's watch
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  the. Video To call herself a
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  Christian is a bit different. I mean, a Christian has to
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  believe in something, and I mean any, well, you go to church now
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  and you listen to the vicar and do you kind of notice what a lot
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  of nonsense he talks? I mean, do do you really take it
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  seriously that Jesus is the son of God?
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  Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus was born of a virgin, and
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  that's part of Christianity. So I think because you and I
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  know you very well, we've been friends for a long time.
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  And in fact, in some ways I think of you as a mentor.
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  I would say you're coming at this from a place of there is
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  nothing. And what has happened to me is I
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  think I have accepted there is something.
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  And when you accept that there is something and there is a
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  powerful entity for me, the the God that that turned me around,
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  I think what the vicar is saying no longer sounds nonsensical.
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  It makes a great deal of sense. And not only does it make a
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  great deal of sense, it's also LED with the wisdom of
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  millennia. And so like you, I did mock
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  faith in general and probably Christianity in particular.
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  But I don't do that anymore. And, and again, that is where
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  the humility comes into it is it doesn't seem in 2024 after I
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  went through that experience, it doesn't seem nonsensical to me.
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  And it doesn't, I don't mock it. I think I've been, I've come
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  down to my knees to say perhaps those people who've always had
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  faith have something that we who lost faith don't have.
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  And, and, and people who have faith also like the woman who
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  told me, well, you, you've reached you, you've tried
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  everything and you've lost hope. You've lost faith.
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  Try it. Pray.
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  I think just in, in that one word, there is so much wisdom
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  and, and that it's I, I am suffering and I'm staggering to
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  say. I'm just trying to say, no, it's
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  not stupid. It's in fact, it's clever and
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  it's wise. So you believe in some kind of
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  higher power, which is comforting you, and you react.
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  You're obviously you're reacting from an Islamic past and, and I
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  know that from what you've written, that part of what you
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  feel is Christianity is a bulwark against Islam, which is
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  a quite separate thing from what you've been now saying.
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  But but you, you stand by that. I mean, you, you, that's part of
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  what, what you're saying. And I accept that and I, I
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  support that, that that's why I've called you a political
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  Christian. But from what you've just said,
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  it sounds that you're more than just a political Christian.
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  I mean, it sounds that you actually believe it so.
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  So what is your response to those specific questions of
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  Richard when the vicar is saying that Jesus is the Son of God?
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  Literally, not figuratively, Yeah.
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  How do you square that with your highly trained rational mind?
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  Well, it is again different planes of perception.
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  So I I choose to accept Jesus Christ, the teachings of Jesus
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  Christ, the story of Jesus Christ, I choose to accept that.
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  So on the personal level, the rewards I get very subjective
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  again, but mine and through choice which is separate from
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  where? I think that aside from my
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  personal experience, the history of Western civilization is
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  mainly Christian and that the external forces, for instance,
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  the spread of Islam non violently or violently and the
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  challenge of Islam and the message of Islam to Western
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  civilization can be counted and should be counted with the
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  message of Western civilization, which is essentially Christian.
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  And in that sense, I think there are more people who agree with
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  me. But that is on the societal
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  level and then on the civilizational level.
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  I think that every moral you've used yourself, Richard, the
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  phrase lately that there is moral Christianity and there is
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  cultural Christianity. And when moral and cultural
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  Christianity collides with moral and cultural Islam, or moral and
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  cultural Confucianism or cultural authoritarianism, I
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  think then perhaps we're on the same page about that might be a
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  way of countering it. But on the personal level, yes,
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  I choose to believe in God. And I think there we might say,
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  let's agree to disagree. I I didn't hear that.
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  She's saying, let's agree to disagree on the on the details,
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  I mean. If if it's more than just
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  details. I mean, OK, I wanted to say 2
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  two different things. Let's take the moral thing
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  first. Islam is a nasty religion.
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  I think we agree about about that, but Christianity is not
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  all that nice either. And when you think about
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  Christianity, Christianity is obsessed with sin.
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  Saint Augustine said that we are all, we all inherit the sin of
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  Adam. Well, of course he didn't exist,
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  but so we inherit original sin. Original sin came down in the
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  seaman. Jesus was not conceived with
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  seaman. That's why he's clear of sin.
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  His mother Mary had to be clear of sin as well, so she had to
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  have an Immaculate Conception. This is all obvious nonsense.
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  This is all theological bullshit and the idea that humanity is
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  born in sin and has to be cured of sin by Jesus being crucified,
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  Jesus being punished for all our sins.
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  That is a morally very unpleasant idea.
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  I'm sure you must agree about that.
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  I find that Christianity is actually obsessed with love and
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  that the figure, the teachings of the teaching of Christ as I
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  see it. And again, I'm a brand new
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  Christian. But what I'm finding out, which
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  is the opposite of growing up as a Muslim, the message of Islam,
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  but the message of Christianity I get is that it's a message of
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  love. It's a message of redemption,
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  and it's a story of renewal and rebirth.
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  And so Jesus dying and rising again for me symbolizes that
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  story. And in a small way, I felt like
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  I had died and I was reborn. And that story of redemption and
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  rebirth, I think makes Christianity actually a very,
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  very powerful story for the human condition and human
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  existence and the pain of suffering, but also our internal
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  the recognition of what you call sin.
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  But perhaps the character defects that both good and evil
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  are there, but that both good and evil are in US.
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  I think those teachings in Christianity are far more
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  powerful and have led to, I think, the flourishing of
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  Western civilization. Compared to say, growing up as a
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  Muslim when I was taught that really the only way for you to
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  be faithful is to fear naked fear and to have these sets of
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  obligations which you basically obey.
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  And that was very much about power about it was centered
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  around Hellfire and, and all of these other things.
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  And so Christianity, as I experienced, I'll give you an
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  example, when I was an atheist and I was going all over both
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  the United States and all over Europe, mocking Christians,
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  making fun of them, making fun of faith, as you're doing now,
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  dear Richard, I was walking with six to seven men at any given
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  time, protecting me armed from things that I said that were
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  offensive to Muslims, of Muslims thought were offensive to them.
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  Christians were writing me letters saying, you know, we're
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  going to pray for you. You're misguided, and I think
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  that alone defines for me the distinction between Christianity
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  in general, main mainstream Christianity and mainstream is
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  1. Well, I must say I've never met
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  a vicar that I didn't like. I mean, they're always very,
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  very nice people. Yeah.
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  But but nevertheless, the stuff they believe is obvious nonsense
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  and and you, you have to take the whole package because when
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  you talked about Jesus rising from the dead, you don't believe
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  Jesus rose from the dead, surely?
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  I choose to believe that Jesus rose from the dead.
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  You. Choose to believe it.
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  And that is a matter of choice and it's a matter it's, I think
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  we, it has to go back to is there something or is there
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  nothing? And I think you start with there
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  is nothing. And yes, for years I agreed with
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  you, there's nothing. But if you come round to the
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  idea that there might be something much more powerful
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  than we are, something that caused everything else, then
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  something like Jesus rising out of the dead or these other
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  miracles, Jesus being born out of a virgin for that higher
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  power, it's not a big deal. But again, it's a matter of
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  choice. And it is just different planes
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  of perception. And I think here on this plane
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  of perception, having been a former atheist, I don't think
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  this is something we're going to resolve tonight or agree on
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  right now. And so that is where I think
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  it's perhaps some more interesting, even if you choose
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  not to believe, to say, let's at least talk about the value of
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  Christianity for today. For I look at these
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  universities, the most illustrious universities of the
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  West, and you've all shared with me images of young women draped
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  in kefirs, the symbol of Hamas, performing the Muslim prayer,
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  and tell me if those kids are not morally and utterly lost and
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  queers for Palestine. So while you and I and Steven
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  Pinker and all of those wonderful people were locked up
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  in our ivory towers, let's ask ourselves what was happening on
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  the ground. Because in the last 6 decades we
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  pretty much demonized Christianity and the teachings
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  of Christianity out of the public space, out of school, out
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  of universities, and a vacuum occurred.
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  And that vacuum is now being filled, as GK Chesterton said.
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  Not because people have come to reason, but because now they'll
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  believe in anything. There are very awful forces
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  today out there that are claiming the hearts and minds
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  and souls of these young students, and when you say that
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  it's nothing, you offer them nothing.
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  We're getting into the bigger political cultural question.
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  I just feel it's worth pressing one more time on this.
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  What you said, agree to disagree.
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  And I understand, having read Richard's letter to you, that
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  that literal belief is the bit that he can't get past.
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  Are you saying that you don't literally believe those things?
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  You talked about planes of reality.
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  Is it that you see a beauty in those things and choose to
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  suspend your rational judgement? Or do you literally believe
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  them? Yeah.
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  I mean, I think there is something subjective and there's
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  a choice. There are things that you see
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  and perceive that a different person cannot perceive.
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  Art, music. In fact, I think you do enjoy a
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  great deal of Christian art and music.
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  I will look at a painting by Pollock and I will think my 6
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  year old must have spilled all the paint on the canvas and run
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  around. And people are crazy enough to
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  pay millions of dollars and hang it on walls.
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  But I've actually seen people be moved to years staring at a
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  Pollock. That is a plane of perception
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  that is real, but that's also very, very difficult to measure.
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  And it's the same the way you're moved by certain pieces of
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  music. So the fact that I have faith
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  and I choose to have faith because of what I've experienced
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  is just as real for me as it is for the millions of people who
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  believe. But for me, what is even more
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  real is it's, it's the story itself and the the wisdom in
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  that story, the the morality that has come out that has
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  evolved out of that story, the internal debates of millennia
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  long and everything that we inherited from it.
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  It's just too casual to cast that aside.
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  And when we've done it, I think we have caused ourselves a great
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  deal of damage. Thanks for watching this
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  incredible debate between Doctor Richard Dawkins and Ayaan Hirsi
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  Ali. If this discussion got you
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  thinking, make sure to like, subscribe, and share your
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  thoughts in the comments below. If you want to watch the full
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  debate, the video link is in the description.
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  Stay tuned for more thought provoking conversations.