Latest / Flyer Magazine / CAA answers our cardio questions - The Flyer Show 2 July 2026

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CAA answers our cardio questions - The Flyer Show 2 July 2026 · Flyer Magazine

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_05: This is the Fly Show in podcast form from Flyer.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_05: It's your weekly dose of general aviation news, views, and flying chat.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_05: If you'd like airplanes, airfields, airspace, and the strange little world that surrounds them, you're in the right place.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_05: It certainly isn't.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_05: My name's Ian Seeger.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_05: I'm Ed Hicks, and I'm Dave Calderwood.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_05: Excellent, and welcome.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: So we this week we'll be talking a bit later on in the show about the Civil Aviation Authority's change to the cardiovascular assessment Q risk 15% kind of thing.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_05: So we'll we'll talk about it with a little bit more sense than that was, but we'll do that in a bit.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_05: So for now, I would like to say huge thanks to Sky Demon for supporting the show, and here is this week's top tip.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, I'm Rob from Sky Demon, and here's another top tip.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: While a route is planned on screen, the virtual radar will appear.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is the area focused on the profile view of your flight, showing obstructions, airspace, and terrain along your route.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Any legs that are planned below your MSA will be coloured in red.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's possible to rub a band vertically here just as you can with the lateral map.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: The altitude scale is shown here on the left, and if you like, you can drag a finger up and down to change the size of the virtual radar.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Terrain is shown in two greens.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: The bold green in the foreground being the height of terrain directly under your planned track, with the faded green in the background being the highest terrain in a corridor either side.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: The width of this corridor is set in the planning options, and it's what defines your MSA.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you might wish to see a particular point from your route in the virtual radar on the main map.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Double tap the root line in the virtual radar to be shown that point laterally.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: It works in reverse too.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Tapping the root in the main map to highlight that point in the virtual radar.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just like in the main map, you can press and hold anywhere in the virtual radar to bring up the what's here menu for that point.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: For more information, check out our website www.skydemon.era.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_05: There you go then.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_04: So virtual radar.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_04: Curiously, I was uh extolling the virtues of Sky Demon to a friend who's just got a balloon license and he was amazed at virtual the virtual radar uh thing.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: Cool.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_05: Because he'd take it in flying yet?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_04: Not yet, no.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: He was he was literally waiting for his um for his piece of paper to drop through the uh letterbox.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: So he didn't say it's a load of hot air then.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_04: He certainly didn't.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_04: Certainly didn't.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um talking of hot air, um shall we see?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_04: And obviously not that Simon's full of hot air, but maybe he's gonna tell us if it's gonna be hot again.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so let's uh let's see what he says.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Evening all, hope you're having a fantastic evening and looking forward to a weekend of flying.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's a big difference north to south across the country.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Although the good news is that early next week, higher pressure really gets building, all of us then enjoying drier, but hotter and hence more bumpy conditions.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is how things shape up then for tomorrow.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: You see quite a bit of cloud around to start tomorrow morning, but notice how that does break.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sunny sparse come through.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Although we'll get some outbreaks of rain passing through Northwest Ireland and into the west of Scotland during the day.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Leads to non-VFR conditions here, bases less than a thousand feet, tops about twelve thousand feet.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Eastern parts of Scotland though faring better, bases around 3,000 feet, tops at 10,000 feet, and over other areas it's a decent day actually, with the cloud breaking, the sun coming through at 3 to 4,000 foot bases, and tops about 10 to 12,000 feet in just mostly light westerly winds, although stronger across Northern Ireland.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, as we get intowards, the further front, they're going to extend through Scotland.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: You see those bringing plenty of cloud, they bring outbreaks of rain as well, mostly North West Ireland, western and northern parts of Scotland, reduced visibility, less than a thousand foot bases in many places, 12,000 foot tops.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: East of Scotland, probably most of northern England, most of Ireland seeing a fair amount of cloud, can't rely on a spot drizzle over the hilltops, two to three thousand foot bases here, tops about ten thousand feet.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: But for the far south of Ireland, for Wales, for central and southern parts of England, it's a good day again.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well broken cloud, bases around three to five thousand feet in the afternoon, tops about eight to ten thousand feet.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, all in all, a decent day.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: But look at the ice bar, see how close together they are across northern parts of England and southern Scotland and Northern Ireland.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Quite a breeze on there, westerly winds gusting 25 to 30 knots.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Elsewhere, the wind's much lighter, probably about uh 15 knots or so.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then as we get through in towards Sunday, more cloud around on Sunday as further fronts extend through Scotland, through Northern Ireland, bringing drippy damp conditions here and lots of cloud with them.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think generally we do have to say non-verfar here because of that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Less than a thousand foot bases in many areas, topped about 10 to 15,000 feet, misty and murky too, especially over western facing coast and hills.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Better for the far northeast of Scotland, probably better too across that cloud breaking again.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we're looking bases around 2,000 to 4,000 feet, topped at about 10,000 feet.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Again, just these western coast of Wales, parts of southwest England, western parts of the channel, I think could see low cloud drifting in from time to time as a myth.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Just play that one very, very carefully.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: As I say, that high-then building properly early next week.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Looks like we get into fairly decent conditions.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now I've been promising you that for a couple of weeks I'd be releasing the date to my next aviation weather school part one.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm almost there, almost confirmed.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like it's going to be September.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you want me to let you know as soon as that date is announced, just go to weatherschool.co.uk, use the contact us form there, and then uh pop me across an email, tell me that you want me to let you know as soon as the dates are announced so you can get in there first.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, whatever you're doing.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Have a great, have a safe, flying weekend, and uh, I'll see you next week.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Bye for now.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: Looking like it's gonna be nice again, and then maybe a bit hot next week.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: So well, that's good because I'm on holiday next week.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, but that's good.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Have a good one.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: Have a good one.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um, right, should we have some news?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, absolutely.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, guess what?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Gloucester Gloucestershire Airport is for sale again.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the uh two councils on Tuesday, the two two councils that own it, uh Gloucester City and Cheottenham, asked Savills, the estate agents, to restart the sales process.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um Councillor Jeremy Hilton, who's the leader of Gloucester City, Gloucestershire Gloucester I'll start a bit again.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: Councillor Jeremy Hilton, who's leader that out.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: What?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not cutting that out.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: Councillor Jeremy Hilton, who's leader of Gloucester City Council, said Gloucestershire Airport is a vital in an aviation asset for our county and region, and we must do our best for it.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh in recent weeks there's been considerable interest from potential investors in the airport, and now's the right time to put it back on the market.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Haven't seen the listing yet with civils.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: I've always have come been looking for it, so I don't know what price they're asking for.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: Is it is it is it four bedrooms and three bathrooms?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: Is it a fixer up up?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_05: It was on it was on it they got a slot on the local news recently saying um that the council were talking about it, obviously priming people for this announcement saying that it was losing three million a year, which you know, for a facility that big for all the jobs and everything else it supports and the money it brings into the area, yeah areas, probably not a bad investment on their part, to be honest with you.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, no.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_05: But um, you know, councils.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I did see also that uh the airport m movements are slightly up for 2026 so far.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, they're uh so they're doing some things right there.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the residents at uh big name residence at Gloucester, at Gloucester Airport, Skyborne, is investing in his facilities there.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: They've got a big setup there, haven't they?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_05: They've got a big setup and they are super busy.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, really lovely facility there.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, well, let's watch watch this space.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_05: No doubt there'll be all sorts of that will give us something to write about over the next few months, won't it?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: I have another airport story.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_05: Do you?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Where's London?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um that way.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_05: I was born, I was born there.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of where's where's Cranfield?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's that's up north.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: Those are in different and Cranfield is in a different location to London.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, guess what?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: Cranfield is now called London.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: London Cranfield Airport.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think you can do that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it has.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to the flyer live stream from London Wordswick.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: So London Cranfield Airport is now setting its sights on business aviation.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: To be fair, it's been doing that for a while, but it's been slowly building up the resources there.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: And they've also become a partner in what's called the Western Collection.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this is uh a network of regional airports aimed at boosting business aviation traffic.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: Now, actually, Cranford is a pretty good airport for business aviation because it's clear of London, it's even though it now calls itself London, it's clear of uh London airspace.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's um there's no commercial operators there, airlines operating that uh can get in the way.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: So no slot restrictions, it's got a pretty good long runway, good facilities, plenty of places to park aircraft.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's a it's a good place.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, if you go back, I in the 70s and 80s, it was a it was a popular and very happening business aviation location, wasn't it?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: And um it there's a lot of new businesses around there.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there's a whole uh yeah, yeah, lots of t lots of high-tech and all sorts of in the area.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's a bit of a stretch to be calling yourself Cranfield London or London Cranfield.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_05: It's also, if it's going to attract business aviation, it's gonna have to do something about its attitude to actually having airplanes coming to land there.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: And yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: I phoned up a couple of years ago.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_05: I said, can I just pop in?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_05: I just need to pop in, take something out of my aircraft, hand it over to someone, and I'll be gone.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_05: Oh no, you can't do that, we haven't got space for that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_05: I said, it's assessed the 182.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, there's there's no space.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: You can't do that.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: I said, I'll I'll be literally, I'll be shut down and I'll be five minutes, and that's it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not even, you know, I'll I'll come out, pay, I'll pay by credit card beforehand if you want.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, no.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_05: And they was quite possibly the most I mean, uh airfield in name, but not actually doing anything.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: And and there's been they've had they've been down to like slots and it's been difficult to get PPR and all sorts of things.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_05: I've given I've given up.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_05: It's just one of those places you're right, they don't want visitors clearly.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's uh let's let's let's ask people.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: If you've been into Cranfield recently, was it was it a pleasant experience?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and recently means not ten years ago.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_05: Because I remember going in before, it was absolutely fine.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_05: There was there was all sorts of businesses there, i.e., IAE had a place, yeah, Bob Crow had a place, there was a couple of flying schools, restaurant bonus aviation.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um, started by the guy behind bonus prints.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: Remember bonus print?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_05: I remember bonus prints, yeah.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_05: Didn't know that was a that was it, rumour has it, he was learning to fly and was not impressed with uh the learning to fly experience with another school at Cranfield at the time.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_05: I went, I'll show you, I'll start my own one.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_05: That's the story I was told.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_05: Not vouching for that, haven't backed it up.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_05: Please don't sue me.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: I I I I vaguely remember that bonus prints they used to be envelopes, and you could put your film in an envelope and send it to someone.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_05: I know.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_05: Well I discovered last night.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_05: So I discovered last night, I've got six rolls of undeveloped FP4 black and white stuff.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_05: So I need to find somewhere to get that processed and contact sheeted to see what rubbish I was taking pictures of before.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: If you're young and watching this at the moment are going, what a photograph.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: FP4 prints.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: What's an envelope?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Shall we move on?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, let's move on.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um I I've got some uh some nice genies.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: Did we get a song with it?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh no, no, no songs.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, actually, yes, songs.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_05: One, two, three.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_05: Turbo shark.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_05: This is not the turbo shark.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's not the turbo shark.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_05: No turbo shark.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_04: Non-turbo shark.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um but this is news that a privately owned uh shark microlyte in the UK has uh been used uh to uh support uh transport delivery missions uh in the UK and uh it's been flown on a 700 nautical mile mission in a single day.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so this is a chap called Nigel Charles, who is known to us because he runs the local uh local Lideway airstrips.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_04: Fantastic strips.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um so Nigel bought himself a shark recently, just taking delivery of that, and he was flying for the Civil Air Support Group uh and transported some vital uh transplant packages from Wolverhampton to Dundee before picking two more two more packages up in Scotland and delivering those to Elstree.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um 708 nautical miles in just five and a half hours.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Nigel was flying solo to maximise his payload uh and he was using the the remarkable fuel capacity of the shark when it's solo um for the flight.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the flight burned a hundred litres of unloaded fuel, averaging 129 knots and uh 18 litres of fuel an hour, which is really, really impressive.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_04: What's perhaps even more impressive um was the margin because he after he landed, um even after landing with his 45 minute uh fuel reserve, the shark still had enough fuel on board uh to do another three hours of flying.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_04: Bloody hell.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: So roughly 400 nautical miles.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_05: No wonder no wonder the Rutherfords chose it as their weapon of choice to fly around.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_05: Fly around the world.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_05: Send their children off flying around the world.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_05: It's a bit like a parallel, isn't it?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_05: I send both my children off to fly around the world and see what they came back with.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but so yes, so if you if you need an economical um and efficient touring tool, it would be Rashark would be it.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_04: So indeed.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: Indeed.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_05: Right, I've got a story uh which is all about um bit of bit of business going on in aviation.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_05: Uh Aura Aero, the company in South France who have the integral R, amongst other things.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: Very airpatch.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_05: It's not even a very pretty, it's the the the electric version of it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_05: I'm talking about one is ugly.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_05: The Aura, the the the tail dragger side by side is absolutely beautiful.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_05: Integral A.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_05: Lovely, lovely.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_05: Integral R lovely.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_05: Integral E.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: What happened?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_05: They got visited by the ugly stick late at night, didn't they?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, that that is the whole thing.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, they have bought the Volt Aero assets.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_05: Voltaero, remember they're the people who had the sort of Cessna 337 test bed kind of thing, which they've been flying for ages since 2019, I think.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_05: I think they've done like 15 and a half thousand miles in it or something.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so that was a Cessna 337, no engine on the front, the pusher engine still on the back, and then it had electric motors on the ends of the booms, didn't it?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so it's a very so so they've they've been bought effectively by Aura Aero, and they've they've so they've bought got their Rochefort base and factory, they've got all of their they've got they've got the development aircraft, they've got their their um what do you call it, the patents, um various other technologies.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_04: Vault were Vaultero were working with Kawasaki, weren't they?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_04: Kawasaki were were had a had were promising a hybrid power system and Vault Aero had their obviously the they weren't just about modifying a Cessna 337, they actually had their um their evolution of that design idea, didn't they?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: Which they showed at Aero um and Oshkosh.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so so Aura are going to use that to A develop a little bit more their integral E, but also their their big thing that they're working on is the era European regional aircraft 19 seat hybrid, yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: Hybrid powered aircraft.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: It does there is a bit of a pattern here, isn't it?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_05: And dr and drones, they're into drones.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_05: Everyone's I mean, each aircraft manager is not into drones these days.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: You need a drone side side hustle, don't you?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um I mean it this is a bit of a pattern, isn't it?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because obviously um Archer Aero bought you know, it seems like electric businesses buy other electric businesses.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_04: Archer bought um the assets of Lillium.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm trying to think, I'm sure there's another example as well.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean obviously this one as well.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_05: So it makes sense.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_05: I think there's literally billions being spent in the electric aviation industry.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_05: There's a whole load of companies out there enjoying the investments that they get for the billions.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_05: Clearly the market, you know, there's a consolidation required.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um it just works better for people.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_05: It does appear to be a bit of survival of the fittest, really.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_05: Well, so there you go.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_05: And the other thing is Adams Aviation, that top company who supply all sorts of bits and pieces for pilots and owners and engineers and stuff like that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_05: They're pretty much everything.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_05: I mean it's kind of like my go-to company when I need a gasket or so I've just put some put some lights on the airplane.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think there was there was a couple of months where I was on the phone to Adams every week for the couple.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: Go ahead.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um they've just been bought by R Capital, uh London-based um venture capitalist.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_05: And they were previously part of well, there was a f it was a family business originally.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_05: And that that was sold to Incora, a big US aviation supplier.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um and this is the R Capital is is a bit of a carve-out from Incora.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_05: So that that that was that only happened yesterday.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_05: The first of July.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: I I that wasn't I that was on my unexpected list.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_05: Me too.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_05: Me too.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_05: But there you go.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_05: And therein ends the news.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_05: Well, there's a couple of little snippets we can sneak in.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_05: There's the fact that we've we've been reading this morning that the Chinese have have banned all light aviation since someone threw an LSA into the side of a building.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: Patrick bounced off the bottom.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it bounced off, yeah.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_05: It didn't end well for the guy who was flying, yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_05: No, no.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but no one else died.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, Chinese have banned GA.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_05: Did I see?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_05: I I've been away, which is I haven't done this for a couple of weeks, which is like, mmm, I was a bit nervous.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um did I see that or put in.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_05: Embargoed.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_04: No, I didn't.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, good point.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: Well, what you just witnessed there was Ian trying to break an embargo.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'd I'd I'd read about it, but I'd forgotten about the embargo.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_05: Not yet.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um there's probably is it next week?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_05: So there's there's other stuff next week.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_05: This next week's show is gonna be well worth watching.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, definitely.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_05: I thought we're not quite sure who's here to do it, actually.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_05: Because I'm not here.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_05: We'll figure that out in time.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_05: Or not.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_05: There you go.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_05: Right, should we should we move on?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_04: Crack on, yes.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: Club news.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_04: So, club news.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh so uh obviously we're in July now, and uh there are four fabulous free landing fees for you to use with your flyer club membership.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh uh, it's Tibbonham and longside East Kirkby, fabulous East Kirkby, Move the Museum, lovely Lancaster and the Mosquito, uh, and wonderful Redford Gamston, total saving of£50.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: Which uh, when you think that the Flyer Club membership is just£62, that's pretty much your whole membership saved in one go.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: Uh don't forget, if you fly to one of these fabulous airfields who support us with free landing fees, take a photo of you at the airfield.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: Even better, send us a video of you visiting because we love to see you out and about.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: And that's flyer.co.uk forward slash membership for club membership.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_05: And if you do want to pay the£62 up for a year in advance, you can join monthly and pay to six pounds a month.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_05: Even better.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, which you're just not going to notice, to be honest.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: How much is a coffee now?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_05: Coffee's like four quid.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_05: I I bought a coffee this morning.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_05: I bought an it was£3.45.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_05: Which I thought was quite expensive for what was an average coffee.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: For an average coffee, yeah, absolutely.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_05: Next week on Coffee Watch.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_05: Next week it's Coffee and Kit Kat Watch.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_05: Right, should we move on?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_05: The whole discussion thing.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_05: This week's key don't you looking at me like I've missed something out here.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_05: So so you you'll be aware of the Civil Aviation Authority.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_05: You've recently changed their guidance and provided a flowchart for assessing card assessing cardiovascular risk, and you'll probably be aware that they've gone for a 10% Q risk III score for commercial licenses and 15% Q risk III score for effectively class two licenses.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_05: There's a whole bunch of stuff in there, a whole bunch of questions.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: We put uh four or five questions to the Civil Aviation Authority last well, a couple of weeks ago now, and they got back to sort of a pretty full um thing.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_05: The the whole story is on fly or it will be by the time you see this, uh, including their their their response in detail, verbatim as well as the story around it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_05: Let's just say there are questions that remain unanswered and questions that need to be answered.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_05: So Basically, they why did they make the change in the first place?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_05: I guess would be the first question.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_05: Well, they kind of figure that cardiology has moved on in ten years.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_05: Undoubtedly true.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: They also um I think have been prodded a little bit by a couple of comments in AIB reports and from a couple of coroners where some kind of coronary disease could not be proved but was perhaps suspected, and there are other places where it could be proved.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um people would still point out there's actually been no fatalities apart from the people involved, etc.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_05: etc.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_05: And actually we know for a fact that what they've done by introducing this Q risk thing, which has brought a huge amount of expense to people.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_05: We'll talk about that in a bit, uh, is is pushed a whole load of people onto I I got an email literally just before we started recording from someone saying, I'm a 72-year-old pilot, I've never had an issue with my medical, you know.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um I I think I can I'm not like a perfect specimen at 72, but I consider myself pretty pretty fit.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_05: And his QRIS score was 27%.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_05: Oh wow.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um which is quite chunky.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_05: Which is um, but he uh and he had a had a chat with his AME, and his AME said, you know, this is what you're gonna need to do, and of course obviously there's no guarantee you're gonna get your medical class two medical as a result of that, etc.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_05: etc.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_05: etc.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_05: His decision is well, you know, I'm I'm a I'm a pensioner, I can't afford what could be anywhere between 500 and 3,000 pounds, depending on the the investigations I have, that I have to pay for privately every two years, yeah if I if I do get it.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um and so face faced with that prospect, I'm now gonna revert to a PMD.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_05: And and fly around with a PMD.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um I'm not sure you count that as a as a win for health or not, really.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think the PMD is a great very good thing.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_05: And everyone should have one, even if you've got a medical, get yourself a PMD.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but of course you're outside the medical system then, aren't you?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean you're declaring your fit, but there's been no attempt to prove it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_05: No, his point hit one one of the points he made to me in his email uh was that you know previous to to that I had an ECG every two years.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_05: Now I won't have an ECG every two years.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um another bit, you know, I won't see I won't I won't have my health assessed by a medical professional on that regular basis.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, so anyway, I guess we sorry.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: I was I was gonna say the big question, why 15%?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_05: So there's this thing, this kind of accepted thing, um, which is that you know the acceptable risk, if you like, was was one percent uh annually, and the CA have done some some sums and things like that.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_05: They didn't actually provide their working.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's not like an exam where they go, here are our working, where they consider the 15% for private pilots, class two medical people holders, I should say, um, is roughly equivalent to like a one percent risk, which so it met their kind of I have to say we haven't seen the workings, yeah, but that's that's what they said.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_05: In the story that you'll find on flyer.co.uk, um you will see you'll see the story, and then at the bottom of the story you'll see the civ the word for word the the civil aviation reply.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_05: So you can go and have a look at that yourself.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um but as I think we've all found out, and again, something we'll talk about at at the end, is you know, the Q risk score varies depending on lots of different factors, some of them on on basically purely postcode.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_05: Not purely postcode, but postcode has an influence as well.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um so you know, you if if you want to reduce your Q risk score, one of the things is gonna be move house.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_05: That's not that's not stressful.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, so I guess the the other I mean we we so we asked them why the 15%.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um we asked them how many pilots were going to be affected, and they effectively said, well, we don't know.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_05: And but what they did say was there are 22,000 um class two medicals, valid class two medicals currently in existence, right?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_05: And that some something like 17% of the people of those, I think it might have been 17.5%, yeah, to be specific, are 60 or over.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um and they they kind of fully accept that Q risk III parameters means that almost all pilots over 70 will fall will end up with a Q risk III score of above 15 percent.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: All pilots are about if as soon as you get above 67.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that becomes such a such an element.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_05: They the their words were weren't all pilots, their words were like almost all pilots or something like that.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_05: But anyway, there's a whole chunk of that's like the best part of 4,000 pilots who will be, if they want to keep their class two medical, will have to undergo extra examinations, either the stress ECG, which is becoming increasingly difficult to find.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_05: I've had another couple of emails from people saying the these things, you know, I'm happy to pay for it, but it's actually really difficult to find and get booked in.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's not an NHS thing.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um you just it's uh did you know that the the so that stress ECG is called the Bruce Protocol.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_05: Who's Bruce?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know, but um but we have him to thank for a protocol, and this is when they put you on a treadmill and increase your speed.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh there's five stages to the test, um, and the speeds increased, I think, from one to uh five miles.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: Five miles an hour, and then the incline on the treadmill goes um up to um 18%, I think.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's I think it's three minutes at each stage.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_05: And is it is it?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I've never had one, but is it if you get to the end of it alive, you're okay?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: It is.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: So we we we we asked the civil aviation authority, well, what's this have you have you done a cost-benefit analysis?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah and stuff like that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_05: And they basically said no.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um they said a bit more than no.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_05: They fetched it said no.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_05: We know it's gonna cost some pilots some money, but no.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um which was which was not good.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, the the other question is, is it gonna improve safety?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_05: Well, um and how are they gonna actually measure whether it improves safety or not?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_05: There's no there seems to be no way of of telling.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_05: They they say they consulted with all sorts of people from EASA from the FAA, etc.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_05: The FAA have don't have any kind of Q risk assessment, by the way.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um Yeah, so the the uh in in answer to the question will it improve safety?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_04: The CIA said only a small proportion of pilots will require treatment.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh many more will benefit from identifying risk factors earlier.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and um they cited one example of a 65-year-old pilot whose coronary dys disease was discovered and successfully treated.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_05: And you know what?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_05: It's not something that we should take lightly because obviously, you know, coronary disease is a fairly serious thing and people should be aware of that, and it's really good if you but you know if you end up with an example, one anecdotal ex maybe even not you know, eight, you know, one person, that's really good.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_05: But if that affects five, ten thousand people and stops a whole load of people flying, makes a whole you know, how many people are gonna go out of the system and go to PMD and and not discover anything?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um it's it's not I don't I don't think plucking things like that is a really valid.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and we we know, I think, you know, you you were talking about an accident earlier where Yeah, so in June 2022 there was uh a Cherokee flying from Blackpool uh where the instructor, I think who was 57, had a heart attack on takeoff.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_04: Now he was luckily he was flying with another qualified pilot.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um but uh I just I did have some notes on that.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_04: So that was um uh yeah, so it was the evidence suggested that he had cardiac arrest as the airplane took off.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um but he'd been um treated for blood pressure successfully for over 10 years, um, and had routine ECGs.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so his um so his Q risk score uh as calculated by his GP um back in January 2022 was 12.2.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_05: So he'd have been he'd have been cool.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah he'd have been cool.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_05: So I mean I think I think to kind of to sum it up, no, we're not arguing against pilot health.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_05: Clearly, that that that that would be silly, but you know, this is putting potentially over 4,000 people through extra tests, and we don't know how much that's gonna cost them because it could be it will be significant.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um we don't know how many conditions will actually be found as a result of that.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_05: We don't know what whether whether this policy, because the CEO is saying it's not regulation, because you know, effectively it it's many people are referring to it as gold plating.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um there's no way of measuring its success.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything wrong?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do they say anything about the the standard ECG you have when you have a class two medical or i is there anything wrong with that?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_05: Does that not work?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_05: Well, perhaps it's a perhaps it needs to be assessed.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_05: Presumably it works, but it doesn't work in the same way.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I think the Q the the history behind the Q risk III thing is it's based on population data from all over the all over the country, which is why you get some quirks, which is why you get, you know, if you have if you happen to be in a postcode where people aren't particularly healthy, that is going to affect your Q risk score.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_05: If you are a thin and white marathon runner like Ed and have a low BMI or a lower BMI, then that a lower BMI will also affect your Q risk score.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_05: And Ed will go, What should I eat more chocolate and make myself bigger?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_05: Will that be healthier?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_05: And that that's that's that's in part because you know, in the general population, there are many people who are ill and as a result of being ill are slim or slim.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I have you done wasting away.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_04: Have you done your Q risk scores?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: I I've done my well, because you know it definitely affects me.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I'm 73, I did my Q risk.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_05: Your Q risk score?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's my age.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: But just putting in my age, not putting in anything else, just putting your male, obviously, in, but uh not putting in anything else, just my age, gave no other info, got a score of 21.3%.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when I added my cholesterol ratio, but I just happened to know my my good, my good and bad cholesterol, cholesterol ratio.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like when you're 73, you get these annual blood tests.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_05: So uh you have so much to talk about with your mates now.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, I've got a good cholesterol ratio, 3.3%.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and that brought the uh score down to 19.4%.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that was the risk, the Q risk score.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: When I added my postcode, uh it came down to a straight 19.0%.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_04: But you'd still be facing I'd still be facing some sort of you'd have to do the test to get a class two medical.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: What about you, Ian?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, 10.1.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_05: 10.1.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_05: Which was lower than I thought it would be, to be honest.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I I'd mucked around with with weight, which I thought which made less of a difference than I thought it would.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_05: I thought if I suddenly, if I could lose huge, you should lose, I should lose the weight, full stop.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_05: That's I'm just not an argument for not losing weight.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but that had less of an effect.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_05: I I know my cholesterol uh ratio as well, which is 2.5 or something, and that that really helped.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_05: So mine was lower than I thought.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_05: How about you, Ed?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh uh, so I'm I'm 50, and um uh my Q-risk score is 3.9%.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I someone had spoken to me and said, um this Q-risk thing makes no sense because I've doubled my weight and it makes barely any difference to the score.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_04: And you think that would be like if I, you know, if I if I decided to be double size Ed.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um so if I doubled my weight, my Q-risk score would only go up to 4.5.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: So you could supersize, super supersise your lunch today, Ed.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_04: That just seems illogical.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: But I know you know a little bit of the science on that, don't you?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_05: Well, uh not so much the science, but it's because it is based on that huge wide population and and the general population, as so there are lots of different factors that that aren't in initially as obvious as you but intuitive.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_05: They're not as intuitive as you might in initially think.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um I mean the Q-Risk calculator, there's you know there's a couple of websites where you can go and play and put in all sorts of things.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_05: And if you know the answers to some of the specific questions, that's fine.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_05: There's a lot of people who just go in and put you know age and postcode and that.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know mine was pr mine was pretty basic.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know my cholesterol level, so I just did um age, weight, postcode, yeah, um, and and and yeah, answered some of the questions.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_05: So um it's it's not it's not a subject that's done and dusted.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_05: Have a good read of the story, we'll be continuing uh and see what we can do.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_05: And and you know, I I I like the fact that we should all be healthier, yeah, but I also don't like the fact that let's not call it regulation, guidance, you know, and let that you know no AME is gonna go, I'm gonna ignore that guidance, are they?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um you know, guidance has to be based on evidence, and I'm not entirely convinced of the evidence or how they're gonna measure the success of it.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um I would rather they come up with a if they're not satisfied with the ECG, I'd rather they came up with an improved ECG.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: You're still being tested.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I I don't know enough about the medical side of ECGs and and and stuff like that.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: No talk about um uh back in 2022 when the AIB wrote their report about the blackpool accident, they concluded um saying um no test or assessment can give 100% reliable detection of cardiac issues, and any additional tests or assessments presents a risk to the individual or potentially of potentially unnecessary loss of license.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: A balance needs to be struck between minimising the risk to flight safety and providing fair and reasonable medical assessment of individuals.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_04: The rarity of accidents caused by cardiac events in flight suggests that this balance is currently about right, and this is continuously being reviewed.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so is this gonna impact you?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh obviously do tell us in the comments uh if uh these medical changes uh are gonna affect your flying.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh yeah, no, we're keen to hear from anybody really on the floor.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_04: So uh what caught your eye?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh Ian, I'm gonna come to you first.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_05: Are you?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I'll tell you what caught my eye.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_05: You remember those like swinging seven not swinging, you remember?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_05: You remember the seventies?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'd I'd I'd have vague recollection.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_05: Bodiem, yes, BGs, yes, Morris Marinas.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_05: It was it was it was a great time.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_05: It was a great time.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_05: But if you wanted an aeroplane, you could have had a Gulfstream hustler.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_05: That is a name.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_05: That is a name.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I I don't know how they came up with the thing, but imagine, just look at it.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_05: I don't I don't know what process they use to get to this point, but it's kind of like stick a turboprop, stick a garret turboprop on the front, stick a fan jet in the back, make some short stubby wings.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna need some extra fuel, stick some tip tanks on.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_05: It'll do 400 knots-ish, it'll do 38,000 feet, maybe.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_05: It looked it looked brilliant at the time.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_05: Can you imagine that?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's like a love child of a Lear 24 in a PC-12, isn't it?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_05: And they apparently they had something like 70 deposits paid for it.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_05: It didn't, they didn't make it in the end, clearly.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_05: That was what was the logic to turbine and jet power?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_05: Well, the the logic was that you we all know you know props are actually a lot more efficient low down, yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_05: And which is why you've got a whole load of short field stuff with yeah with props and not jets.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_05: So the short field stuff got you that kind of off-the-ground performance.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_05: So you got turboprop for short field, and then once you're in the air and you want like high altitude crew, and you need a jet.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_05: You got the jet.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like, let's have all the engines.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_05: Let's have all the engines, yeah.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: But the prop's still there, causing loads of drag, isn't it?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, what do you do with the prop?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I I wasn't the engineer.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_05: I don't have the answer.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: You still run it.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but yeah, it was it was it was an idea.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, those the 70s were kind of you know not always good for the aviation world.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_05: There was a bit of a bit of a collapse, I think.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um do you think there was design issues?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_04: Some design departments operating with mind-altering drugs.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_04: I I didn't want I didn't want to I didn't want to go that far.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_04: But as you have maybe you look at it and you go to the case.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe there's some influence.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: Reading online, I know there was a great line on Reddit.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: Someone said the Hustler was the perfect name for it, as it wants to take all your money and flying was a big flying it was a big gamble.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: Well, there used to be a porn magazine called Hustler, apparently.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_04: I believe so.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_04: So it's of that era, I think.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: I that is a I I love stuff like that.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I'm sad that sad in a way that it never that we didn't end up with with examples all over ramps all around the world.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_05: You just know, when you look at that picture, you just know that Donald Trump would have bought one and painted it black.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: Gold trip gold trim or something.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's that is a very that's a it's a very Trump Trumpian look.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_04: They got two engines, but I can't do a Trump inversion.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: It was yeah, and uh it was that quite sued for 10 billion.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, that project kind of never really it's it the tendrils of it stretch for quite a long time because um uh there was that evolved into something called the Peregrine 600, which was a military trainer, and then in parallel to that, Gulfstream Aerospace, who were doing the Peregrine, they also did the Peregrine 550.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and in 84 they were like, Oh, we're gonna go ahead with production, but by 85 they'd canned it.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um and but you can still find the Peregrine 550, that's in the Oklahoma Science Museum.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: Well, if ever I'm in Oklahoma, I think I would go and see that.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: I don't see that.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_04: I I do like finding oddities around the world uh in the aviation world.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: I just I just you know, you look at it and you go, okay, it's got a bonkers name, bonkers, bonkers plan.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_04: I know similar times.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um do you remember the Lear fan when Bill Lear went?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: Learjets, they're kind of cool, but actually what you need is a pusher, you need a pusher turboprop made out of composites, not a success.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_05: Well, uh I mean the and the precursor to the Cirrus is the the VK 30.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_05: VK30, yeah.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_05: Which is a pusher, yeah, not a turbo.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_05: Not a great success.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_05: Not a great success.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_05: There's one of those in the EA Museum at Oskosh.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: There is, yeah.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: And it looks fabulous.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_04: It does.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I haven't flown one.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_05: I wouldn't mind it, wouldn't mind flying one.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_04: I d I think there's there's like one or two old ones still around on the house.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sure there was one on the ramp at Merrit on Merritt Island in Virginia.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_05: There was, yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_05: But I'm not sure what state it was in.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: I even saw a Barnstormers ad for one with a turbine in it.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: Really?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh not finished, not a finished project.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Of course the Piaggio P180 Avante is that's a pusher twin turboprop.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, and weird.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: And that that was from the 80s and still exists today.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_04: So clearly despite many people's best efforts.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: The Italians clearly found the right formula for that.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, they've just yes, it's a new manufacturer now, isn't there?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because uh Italians lost the formula.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_04: Momentarily.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: Momentarily.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_04: And Dave, what caught your eye?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: What caught my eye was eight nutters jumping out of a helicopter above Mont Blanc.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, and they they popped out and they springs spring some wings, called wingsuits.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: And they went in formation down from the top of Mont Blanc down to Chamony, down in the valley below, uh, in really quite close formation.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know how flying to formation, we tend to do it one aircraft to another.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: But eight of you, I mean it's just really eight of you trying to avoid the ground.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_04: Trying to avoid the ground more than anything else, I guess.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_04: And that's and just watching that video, that just looks utterly it's bonkers.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely bonkers, yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: My brain has gone, no, that's that's I mean, that's got to be one of the sports.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's got to be one of the world's most dangerous sports, wingsuit flying, hasn't it?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_04: I would think so.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_04: If you hit anything, yes.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: But the point is the point is not to hit anything.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: The point is not to hit anything.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, Jeff Corlettes is probably one of the world's He has hit stuff.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: He has hit he he hit stuff.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not sure it's I think 'cause I think it's a sport where you you you don't want to hit anything, but you do want to be close or go through little holes and stuff like that.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he he hit his legs on a on a rock outcrop as he was hugging the ground.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: And he because the way they land in a wingsuit is that they uh pull up into a stall phone, pop the par parachute out the back.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to be a competent parachutist as well.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: And invariably they don't do the they don't do the um the transition from wingsuit to parachute too near the ground, do they?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_04: No, because you want a bit of But it's funny, uh so I saw some video recently, it's because there's this guy now flying with this um with like this this composite wing on his chest, and I saw some video of him in the wing tunnel, and I think they're working up um and and there was some footage of him in the wind tunnel, and they pretty much turn the wind tunnel off and he lands it.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I think he's gonna go for a landing.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there is one guy who has actually landed from a wingsuit on the ground.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_04: Was he the guy who did it did it in the skateboard?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, he had all his all his carboard boxes lined up there, and he was a stump man.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: Do you think you could do it if you just got a skateboard and velcroed it to your chest?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's like if you get the flare wrong, you run out of energy.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_05: That's gonna be yeah, don't land nose wheel first.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: What did you see, Ed?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, um I saw, and and uh uh I know you couldn't make it, but um and everyone was expecting to see you, but it was the fabulous Luscomb fly in Oaksea to celebrate 80 years of many of the UK Luscombs.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh but uh Nigel Barrett, who is uh UK Luscomb legend.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_04: Nigel Muscom Barrett.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_04: Nigel Luscom Barrett.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: No shoes.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah, he um he was really, really kind of persistent in terms of tracing all the UK owners and managed to get what was estimated to be 80% of the airworthy UK Luscombs, and they all gathered at fabulous Oaksie Park on uh Saturday, and uh they were beautifully lined up, 22 of them, and uh there were a couple of fantastic highlights.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_04: There was the oldest UK Luscom, which is Golf Alpha Foxtrot Yankee Delta, imported into the UK in 1975 by import legend Cliff Lovell.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um that aeroplane was built in 1939, uh, and there was a fabulous one, uh Golf uh Lima Uniform Sierra Charlie, G.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_04: Lusk.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_04: I think every skin on that has been replaced to create a concourse level beautiful triggers broom of Luscombs.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: It was magnificent, but it was just fun, it was a fantastic, fun day.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um Oaksie make fabulous events.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the Luscomb guys, all brilliant, they were all having a great time.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um what was fascinating is you walk around and no two Luscombs are the same.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, different shapes and tail fin, different tailwheels, different bits on cowlings.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but uh yeah, no, just all beautiful Luscums, everyone having a great time so.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I'm really sorry I missed it.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: We had a little bit of a family drama over the weekend.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, but certainly lots of people were going, where's Dave?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_05: Where's Dave?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_05: Where's Dave?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_05: I mean he's a drama.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_05: Right, events.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_05: We got any events?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_05: Must be.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, there are some events.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: On Saturday, the 4th of July, there's a Suffolk Coastal Strut flying and barbecue.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's at Monoduin.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: Is that how you say it?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: Monodewin?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Monuden.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: Stoke Medway Air Show at Stoke Medway is near Rochester in Kent.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: Saturday and Sunday, there's an open weekend on flying at Cotswold Airport.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Sunday, the 5th of July, Lundy Sunday flying.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Brought forward a month.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: And just looking ahead to next week, Slate Kosh, 10th to the 12th of July.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: They've got last time I looked, they still had a few places.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: They have a few places left, but it looks like they're going to have slightly, maybe slightly cooler weather than they had the year before, but it looks like it's going to be stunningly good.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_05: So excellent.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_05: Jolly good.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_05: On that basis, it just remains to say thank you very much, Sky Demon.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you very much, everyone, for watching.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you very much, team.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_05: Please join the flyer club if you're not already.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_05: It's only six pounds a month or sixty two pounds a year.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_05: Flyer.co.uk forward slash membership.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_05: That'll be it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_05: Have a good one.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_05: Cheers.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_05: Bye.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_05: Bye.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_05: Bye.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_05: Let's try and get it done in one.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's very hard to see the camera, isn't it?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's there.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, because of course the um the the thing with the tape on it.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_05: The what's it was taken off it.