Latest / The Keri Croft Show / Homage at 19 Years: Ryan Vesler on Creativity, Pressure, and What Comes Next

Transcript

Homage at 19 Years: Ryan Vesler on Creativity, Pressure, and What Comes Next · The Keri Croft Show

• 0:00
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• 0:34
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• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hey there, you beautiful badass.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Badass badass.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Carrie Croft Show.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Ryan Vessler.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Touch, touch.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Carrie Croft Show on location.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for inviting me to Holiday Lanes.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: You should thank Ben at the front desk.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you to Holiday Lanes Corporate for really, you know, bending the rules and letting us come in on they're not even open today.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: But tell people why we're here.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're here because, first of all, you and I go way back, right?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I believe that I am besties with the first employee you ever had at Homage.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: The one Annette Grant.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: We gotta pay homage to Nettie.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Nettie G.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So Nettie and I go way back, and Nettie helped build the brand.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: She did.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was lucky enough to get a bird's eye view into Homage in its infancy.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't you're more of a toddler then, which actually inspired me to be honest.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I've ever told you this.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: But when I watched you guys, I was like, I can I can do this.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of when you make t-shirts?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, SOS.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: System of strength.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can do this.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it was sort of like a part of the inspiration for like starting to build.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you and I go way back.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you were the one, one of the people that coined me Maneater.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're not the only one.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: There was another guy back in corporate America that used to play Hall of Notes when I would walk by his cube.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: But who did it first, me or him?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: He did.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: He did.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sure?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was back in like 2001.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you connected the dots?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I feel a little bit validated that I'm not the only one to say it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Oh no, I think it's a total That's why the name Maneater Media, I mean it's I think it's funny because it's such a double standard.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's hilarious that an assertive, confident woman is seen as a man-eater, right?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: But like if if I was a male in business, nobody would be like, oh, he's a man-eater.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: He would just be a dude doing business.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's true, there is a double standard.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: There is.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: But instead of getting upset about it, I embraced it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I play into it because I think it's hilarious.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great name.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a bad name for it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I would like a royalty percentage for helping you coin the name.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I would absolutely give you a royalty.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to talk about your outfit.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's up?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is an Apex One 49ers windsuit.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I have the matching hat that's dead stock.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Apex One was a 90s sportswear brand started by Michael Lewis and known for its outrageous styles.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Lewis is a visionary merchant and trend spotter.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's the founder of FOCO, which stands for for collectors.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: They make bobbleheads and lots of novelty items.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe the most fun part of my job is going to NFL licensing events where he's there and I'm in Apex One.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think the first time I met him, he was a little bit confused.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's probably not the only one.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I told him that I really admire what he's built, and I think he's a legend in the sportswear world, and so told him I'm a huge fan, and that's why I wear this stuff.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to talk first about your marriage.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like the fact that you're married blows my mind.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're so special and just such a Oh, you're just buttering me up.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're just such a gift.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: When I say that, I know there's another side to it where like if I were with you every single day, like here's how I envision it.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: You probably hate me.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know nothing about Lauren other than like she's a baller entrepreneur and is crushing life, and I I hope to have her on the show.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: But does she does she kind of like wit like get you in line a bit?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you could say that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't give in to a lot of your whims, I could imagine.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean she encourages it, you know.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have to, otherwise, then what?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's blush, he's getting a little blushy.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what so we and we won't stay here for a long time, but I do want to know this, because I think someone at home will be curious about this too.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: What has surprised you the most about marriage?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when I wake up at 1 30 in the morning and my mind is racing, and then like I'm making noise, and then I wake her up, I feel terrible that I'm waking her up, and she's like, no, no, like this is like this is what marriage is.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Does she talk to you like at one in the morning?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty cool.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Gets me to calm down.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot in my mind.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can relate to that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're I mean, you're an entrepreneur, but you're also very, very, very creative.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't stop.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I'm always at it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was working all weekend.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is the way I'm wired.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you is that part of like why you like to come in here and bowl?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a moment where you don't think about stuff?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a different way to, it's just I just disengage.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: You have to understand the league and the people.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a Jewish bowling league.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's been around for I don't know, I'm gonna get this wrong, but like a hundred years, eighty years, something like that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't usually talk about work with them.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: It just it's a brotherhood.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: We just bond people of all walks of life, and uh just a lot of fun.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Some people are in their 80s and they're you know, father figures and mentors, and there's some younger people like me, so well, I guess I'm considering myself young.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not young anymore.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 42.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: 42, yeah.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody told me on Friday that I'm never gonna grow up.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Take that as a compliment.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think in some ways that's true, right?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why do you want to was that does that mean does growing up mean that you stifle your creativity and sort of like the ebb and flow, the way your mind goes?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what's considered sort of growing up?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because if that's the case, who wants to do that?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why yeah, why bother?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think I'll I'll tell you what a grown-up wouldn't do.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Excuse me.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, it's so rude.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Stinky.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: God.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: I hate when I do that, especially during an interview.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's so It was getting into like an intense interview segment.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just needed a break.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we need to do.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: We need to do that every time it gets too deep.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's your safe word.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's my safe word.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I just I don't want to go there.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about though, you putting yourself out there just in general.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I will say I'm really happy.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, thank God.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know who's been making you get in front of the the camera.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know somebody on your team is like, Ryan, dude, like you need to be in front of the camera more.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I can I can tell that like you're being kind of pulled in front of the camera.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And just so you know, and I know I'm endeared, like I like you, but I think everyone's probably feeling the same way.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like anytime you're in front of the camera, it's gonna get high engagement.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're just you're just you need to be in front of the camera.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Probably Dan on our social team, he just like well, first like I'm comfortable around him and he knows me, and he has a great sense of humor, so he's like, let's just start making videos.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of a it was a confluence of things.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I buy a lot of vintage, so there's always like crazy stuff, artifacts showing up every day, and they're on display at the office, hanging.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've covered every wall, I have no more wall space, so now I'm creating more piles.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um people would come in to see the office, and they're like, Whoa, this is a museum.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and I kind of realized I'm like, well, okay, so I'm buying this, which means no one's seeing it except for the people coming in, no one's experiencing it.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So then I decided that I need to sh share the inspiration behind the brand.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I created this homage vault Instagram account, and Dan and I are trying to do weekly videos.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really smart move.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's been pretty fun.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um what's what's hilarious is we'll like block off like an hour to make a video and it's done out for like four minutes.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I just know what I'm saying, like boom.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like here we go.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: The best video we made was the backstory of the Woody Hayes phone number.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I saw that.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, that one got a lot of engagement, a lot of shares.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's still getting shared because that number is getting like 15 calls a day.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the season's over.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Call it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was watching, I was watching that.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: 614-488-1910.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that it's so many people of all the people.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I never told anybody about it.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: Boil down to three things.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Three things.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, the team that hits the hardest and the longest, the team that starts the fastest, and the team that doesn't smart to make mistakes.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: And do smart to make mistakes, and that team will win without any question.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: If you take the tone, if you don't make mistakes, and you deep take the job, no, there's no point to go away.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's no point to go away.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: Now let's go out the door.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So some people, yeah, you can leave a voicemail.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Some people realize that it's recording and they say something, and some people are just talking like in the background.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: But no one would do that.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: No one would go to that length to make that happen.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would say I just thought to myself, like, how like what was the number?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is it available?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but that's that's part of what makes you so interesting, isn't even the right word.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's like genius that you did that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, but it's so good, the attention to detail.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And like you're not even doing it for attention.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: You just did it because like you wanted to connect the dots, it was nostalgic, it made you feel something.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like if people find out about it, great.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I didn't uh I mean I didn't tell anybody.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then like a couple years ago, the weekend or the week of the mission game, I was like, I've never told anybody about this.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually a little afraid because Woody's son, Stephen Hayes, is very protective of his father, and I never wanted it to be perceived that I was somehow trying to profit because like I don't have homage anywhere near that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't say like, this message has been brought to you by homage, because I'm using his voice.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I gonna ask for permission?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there's any family alive.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's truly a homage to him.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just something that can live on in perpetuity.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope it becomes an urban legend, provided that the bill gets paid.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: The first year that it went viral, because it's gone viral three years in a row, I ended up getting this bill for$3,000, thinking that I had unlimited.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then the the the legally, the fine print was like unlimited calls with restrictions.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, what are the restrictions?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I combed the site looking for restrictions.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: They don't, they never articulated the restrictions.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote this letter saying like you can't hold someone to a standard that you don't share.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So then this woman writes me back, she's like, I've conferred with our legal counsel, and like we're gonna go ahead and credit the money, but you need to find a new platform.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: So she they kicked me off.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I moved to a new platform.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So now I have it in writing that I have truly unlimited.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because it went even more viral this past season because we made the video.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Devils in the details, baby.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Voice over IP.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Devils and weird phone phone numbers.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Voice over IP.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So homage is 19 now.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is year 19.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: That is two decades.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gotta feel for you right now a lot different, whether it's heavier, less fun.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the reality of where you're at now is very different than you finding a vintage steel or whatever on eBay.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you're ahead of you're you're the head of this big company that you've created.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that big.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, for some people at home that have that are just starting out, right.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not like the app, but it's I mean, you've built something substantial.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so what what are you gonna do with it?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Good question.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna own it forever.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can't own it forever.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I guess I could, but I mean you take investment capital, so you have to pay your investors back.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: You sign contracts with leagues, you need to deliver growth.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have a lot, I always like to say I have a lot of stakeholders.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I have me, I have my team, that have some people have been with me for 15 years.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's a tough one because when I started, I had no idea that I would be 19 years in, kind of like in this space.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a thrill to be able to get in front of the best IP holders in the world and pitch ideas.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always say that we're you know, half apparel licensee, half creative agency.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not just licensed apparel we're pitching, it's like something really interesting about the apparel.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or hey, we like Elliot, the li our licensing director, spent years tracking down tech mobile.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Any movement on Nintendo?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think it could be possible, but I don't know that we need any more licenses right now.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've already big shading stars.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it'll happen eventually.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like we s we signed Disney, so we've we've got enough to worry about.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the deeper I go into any sports league, MLB, NBA, NFL, like there's so much.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's an endless you can pay homage to anything.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is some of these deep cuts don't generate meaningful enough revenue.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have the bigger you get, the more overhead you you have.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so like you've got to pick and choose your ideas wisely such that they're gonna drive the business forward and hit your sales goals.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the part that I don't like, because you're held to sort of this daily sales plan, and like you have to hit a number.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens if you don't hit it?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see I don't see you loving that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I hate it.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't I just don't I mean I know that you understand it's a necessary evil of the business, like without the numbers, but I just I can imagine you craving a day or a moment where you can go back and just freely be able to like create something.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have that moment of Zen on the Carrie Croft show.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, of course you do.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Just I just get to detach from the world and spend an hour with you in the men's locker room at Holiday Lanes.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about the Carrie Croft show.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: You got out of SOS and now you're Well, I th I started the Carrie Croft show, I think, as a bridge when I knew that things were going to be going a certain way with System of Strength.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, I want to continue to build community.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been super curious.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not business, it's not fitness.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, don't put a sales goal against it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: My real goal was to just have Ryan Vessler, the one, the only.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've been trying to get you on the show for two years.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: You have.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you should give me some honest feedback.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So how aggressive?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I felt like I was softly stalking.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I felt like I was putting some cadence and rhythm between.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: It would go like this.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And admittedly, like I would sort of engage to make you think I was interested, and then I would move the goalpost.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'd come up with some outrageous demand.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you do this, I'll do the same thing.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: 69,000 followers on YouTube.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so most recently I said, if you reserve the men's locker room at Holiday Lanes, I'll do the show.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you called me and you said, I got the locker room, and I'm a man of my word, so here I am.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hell hath no fury, like a woman challenged.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like a man-eater challenge.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Man-eater challenge.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go through that.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: That could be like a recurring segment on the on the show, man-eater challenge.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like mid-show, someone brings something in, and there's like a challenge.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: But don't you think that's already done?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually a great segue to my next question.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Me copying off of someone else.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I've noticed, and one of the things that has been so remarkable to me about your growth, is witnessing the lane that you opened up and witnessing the businesses and the people who could not wait to do it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I would assume that back in the day when you're grinding and you have this idea and you quickly see copycats, you're not like evolved enough or mature enough yet to be like, wow, look what look what we've done.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: But do you at 19 years now look at that and go, wow, like, or do you not pay attention?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, depends.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, back then I was really annoyed.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm like, if you want to start a t-shirt company, like go ahead, because like it's hard.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you want lots of licenses, it's hard.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was just messaging on LinkedIn with a competitor.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just said, Hey, are you gonna be at the licensing show?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think my smaller competitors are probably like a little taken aback by why I want to meet with them.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is, is this industry is extremely complicated, very nuanced, very challenging.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we probably all have the same passion, the same creative spirit, the same entrepreneurial drive.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I I've thought about it, and we just have more in common than not.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there are bigger companies out there.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I'm gunning for them, and I certainly hope they're not gunning for me.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: But like we're in this messy middle.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not worth the energy to get upset about them.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: But why do you want to meet with them though?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Scaling is hard.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what if they want to join our team?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Mergers and acquisitions.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to look for that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: M A.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, I have no idea.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: That would that sounded good.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: That sounded like I know what I'm talking about.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Little bit of M, little bit of A.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to some conglomerate, like big old badass bosses that could just eat you up like Pac-Man, like Gap, Levi's, Abercrombie.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, um, always willing to take calls.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't think you can okay, so you from the whole Express situation, right?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how that ended or how that went, but I'm sure it was complicated.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Very.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you're still here.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't hear about Express anymore.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So like what have you learned as a leader in terms of like, if there's an opportunity that comes, I'm gonna do a full-out sale?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you have those stipulations into your mind of like I'm not messing around again with that type of a deal where like a big company gives me like what what are your what's the fencing that you've created?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a lot.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's hard, it's in in retrospect, a lot of time has passed.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard when there's a very big company that's investing in a small company, and the big company doesn't have a sort of a track record of an of incubating a small company.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Big company also has its own lane, its own problems, its own challenges.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you you have to be like in lockstep.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the learning lesson is like whoever we partner with, if we partner with somebody, there needs to be a very clear line of sight into like what's the goal, what's the objective, what are we gonna do.
• 19:23
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• 19:48
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• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: What's your panacea?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'll help you find it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Who says you need a special occasion to feel like a celeb?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean stress is real.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Life is busy.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And your scalp?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:03
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• 20:05
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• 20:09
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• 20:14
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• 20:21
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• 20:29
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• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because great hair days shouldn't be rare.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you categorize Express?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a failure?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Probably both.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Probably a failure that we didn't execute.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Probably a success that a publicly trade company recognized the opportunity that we had and saw that homage could be this little spark.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So look, it's like anything.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You'll look back and there's things you wish you could have done differently.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: So these business coaches that you have, or these advisors.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Spiritual advisors?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, let's talk business advisors for now.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not your shamans or whatever.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: What do you see as your fatal flaw or Achilles heel?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like what do you want to what are you working on the most from a leadership perspective?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're the CEO.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're leading the show or whatever you want to call it.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I got a lot to work on, okay?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but we all you can't work on all of it.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: At one time.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: So like if you had one where you're like, okay, this would move the needle the most with the team, with the culture, with my own craziness in my head, what would it be?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Probably being more assertive, more vocal.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: The videos that I've been making is kind of a flavor of that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um just like, okay, I'm gonna do stuff.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not gonna just sit back.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I gotta be aggressive.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you are you do you feel like you're a little unsure?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like so to me, you carry a quiet confidence.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Self-doubt is a So you have a lot of anxiety and you're okay sometimes.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's good to hear.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like, you know, you're an idea person, but you're like an overthinker, and then you're like ruminating and you're spinning and you're questioning, and it's like a whole vicious cycle.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's good for people to hear who are seeing this, though, especially the the people who are coming up.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the n like the young entrepreneurs, the people who are you when you were in your parents' basement, trying to figure it out because they're looking at you at a 10,000 foot view.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: They're not seeing warts, moles, anxiety, they're seeing, and they're probably romanticizing it in their head too, like you're the Ryan Wessler.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's good to like kind of not break people down, but like, hey, we're all human.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Here's how I feel every day.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a shit show half the time.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean I try to be as honest and vulnerable to people as I can.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I tell founders, like, hey, listen, you're gonna want to hire your friends.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Be careful because like working with friends and family can forever alter the dynamic and the relationship.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it will.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it will.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it will.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Business will completely change everything.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And there's that saying, right?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're family.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Until you're not.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've gotten heat from this in the past where it's like that I have, you know, maybe been a little too, you know, rough or corporate or whatever, because I don't believe that you're ever family in business.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the best example that I ever heard was like a that of a sports team.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you're there to get better.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you trade away the star player because the chemistry isn't right, or sometimes you release people, like you're constantly trying to get better.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so You're a team.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're a team, not a family.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, families.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's been very hard because like a lot of people have been on this journey with me for a very, very long time.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And they have become family.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so as a business, what's the ratio of family to business?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's a choice of every individual business owner, but I always come back to, you know, family protects the weak.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you have a weak link and you're very man-eater of you.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kidding.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: But if it is true.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to say it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's hey, listen, I'm like you can only do that so much in business.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, go back to the number conversation we had.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like it or not, we all are a slave to the number.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you wouldn't be in business.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you're not at Amish right now because you're making money.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're all the other things too, but if you weren't making money, nobody would be there.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't you can't discount that.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: That is true.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: So to say you're a family, to say you're a high functioning team, I totally agree with.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the family thing, I believe, sets unrealistic expectations and it starts to, I think, allow for some of those toxic things, dysfunctional things that oftentimes can happen in families.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you agree with me.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: He agrees with me.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're very wise.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very convincing.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're very wise.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm long in the tooth.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that probably came to you in a hut in Bali.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I used to have a guy come in there and give me these like really amazing massages.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: His name was what's his name?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Cobra.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: He would come in and just, oh, it would cost literally like$15.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he would give you like a 75-minute full-on just like.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't know I went to Bali?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I was back in the time.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, I knew you went, but like I don't think I ever really It got real weird there.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't I don't think I knew the full extent of your What's your normal morning routine?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like what time are you?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I changed my sleep schedule.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I go to bed at 9 30 and I get up at 5 30 or 6.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I bought these blue light therapy glasses that help get light, because you know, in the wintertime, like you don't get a lot of light.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I make some coffee on my phone, checking emails, trying to get centered, if you will.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I'm usually in the office by eight.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Are you doing any kind of movement, any kind of exercise?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um trying to.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm trying to do 10,000 steps a day.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I probably need to do a bit more exercise, maybe some weightlifting.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've noticed that I can't just eat whatever I want to anymore.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I have lost 10 pounds.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's the stress diet or like the I'm gonna be healthy diet.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, does Lauren cook for you?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any kind of trad wife situation going on there in the house?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is she a good cook?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is it like a nightly thing she'll cook for you?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not all the time.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: She's stressed too.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she's building an empire.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: She's goddess maintenance company.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um that rebrand had me really intrigued.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they're launching a products business.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I only know enough.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know I I knew that the W nail bar with like the W hotel, all that.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're like, we're gonna we're parlay in this thing anyway into a product business, which is really smart.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe she'll be on the show.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want her to be on the show.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: But inside the women's locker room at Holiday Lanes.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would have see.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna tell her that um you should say no politely for two years and then come up with a bunch of outrageous degree.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I why did I court you for that long?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I put up with that type of abuse?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: You I I would have given up a long time ago.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, I that's pro it's part of my problem.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: It made you want it more.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, what is it?
• 27:13
  unknown: No.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: It I am when I I I am nothing if not relentless.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we all have edge.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like something is a positive characteristic until it's not, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So my relentless spirit, I could bottle it up and I could give it.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's where it's a problem for me is like learning to let go of something.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now I wasn't letting go of you.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I knew.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I knew the man-eater could finally like a boa constrictor.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I had you.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew it.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know when it's gonna happen.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: You knew that you could reel me in eventually.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it would it would happen for sure.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just thought, like, look, it's been two years.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm true as picture bow.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna do this thing and be done with that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: I've got other stuff to do with that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, content potential.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's potential here that I think if you would, you know, do some uh what are what are all the cool people doing right now?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like the weird drug psychedelics, open your mind to the possibility.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't you just have Joel Ferneau talking about on your job?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: I saw that real in my feed.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Joel's like a savant with that stuff, man.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's really intriguing.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: You've never done anything like that?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not interested?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably like me.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I get such anxiety even thinking about what you're doing.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you have to be willing to give up control.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, every single person that's done it, like, I'm sure something has not been smooth.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or someone's like, I wish I wouldn't have done that.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you hear about the the positive effects, but what are the negative ones?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just I'm I'm I'm in favor of it.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just would like to see more research.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love the fact that they were doing studies at Johns Hopkins and trying to figure it out.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I do think plant medicine has the potential to be really powerful.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any advices?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like you like, do you like sneak a cig in the back, like in the alley or anything?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I spend too much money on vintage and drink too much coffee.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: No alcohol, no anything.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: You just kinda No alcohol.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not good for you.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Don't even drink soda.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: What do you daydream about?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you can share it or not.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like let's say homage just this is just all hypothetical.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: What do you daydream about your life looking like?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have like an something you want to incubate?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to help me with who cares less party?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, there's there's things about homage that I'd love to do that aren't that don't involve like selling apparel.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love curating spaces.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if you just removed all the clothes and like kept the vibe of all the posters and were like, this is the homage coffee shop, like that'd be cool.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, tell me about the bar.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: That reminds me of the bar there.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: The bar, yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was so confused, but in a good way.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wait, what's happening here?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then I never really got it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: I heard you tell somebody about it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I mean I've I've I've always believed Amis is a platform business.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Could be a platform business across apparel, across media, across hospitality.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, like okay, it's gonna require resources, capital, strategic partners to actually execute that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the bar was a cool opportunity because the graduate was in there, and we I said, would you guys be open to licensing the homage name?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they said absolutely, and it was kind of win-win because they had a few concepts in there, nothing that really st stuck.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So homage brought something to them.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did you design it in there?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, they did.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: They had a full team.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, this is cool.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, usually so like people license us stuff and we do all the legwork.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, now I license something and they did all the legwork.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: But doesn't it bug you that you didn't get to do it?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you would like to no, because their their like their creative team is amazing.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just understood the assignment.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, we know this brand.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let us run with this brand.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: So from the menu to the drinks to the decor.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I brought some posters, but that's because I collect posters.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I do.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know who does a really good job of that?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like on a different level, but is like Mikey's late night slice.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's a cool dude.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's so great.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: He's been on the pod, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he's so great.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I fucking love him so much.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's been such a great friend of the show.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's such a good guy.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: But like whenever you go in there and you see all the like, you know, just it kind of reminds it's very different.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: But when you go in there and you look at everything, you know that like every single thing that's hanging or anywhere has been vetted and that it means something, you know.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I agree with you with Amis.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can totally see parlaying into the grind of that, right?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you're, you know, you have like I don't even, we won't even get into the alleyway of like the sales, you know, putting shit on sale versus like and how much to charge for each thing.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: It just could feel very that part of it, very much like the numbers, the grind, the insatiable beast, right?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you diversify and you have those really logical revenue streams and kind of fit like thought leadership, the content thing is like bonkers.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it is potentially.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is it content marketing or is it content as a business?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because if it's content marketing, then it's in service of the retail brand.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have those things drawn in, but I do believe I can like I can visualize, like I visualize homage as this one lane right now, albeit a really unique, successful lane, but like to be propped up.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: See, and that's also, to be honest, I'm not just chasing you down because I want to interview you for a podcast.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: I am a business person.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I am building a business right now, helping other people build their businesses.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I just see potential in certain things, and like whether it's it's whether it's the the live series or whether it's coming together and Carrie Croft, head of Amish Media.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Just do you know what I'm saying?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're hired.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes! What's my pay?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: But in but truthfully, I I see it's like real foggy, but I can see through.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can see.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can see through the fog?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can see clearly now.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: The rain is gone.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: What are you listening to music-wise?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like what's on your let's look at your Spotify.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Can I see it?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm usually I'm usually You're so weird about touching your phone.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Can I touch your Spotify?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I w it's I'm usually just making songs in Suno about my friends.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, you do that shit.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to songs about my friends.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: What about those weird voices you would send me where it's like you were like, hello, this is you'd have that real weird voice.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so I was so I pitched to George Kaufman of Buyers Imports that they need they need a buyer's boy band.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't want to do that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't interested in that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, that's actually why not?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good idea.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I need a marketing uh competitor for the other.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Adam Lewin, Hamilton Parker.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get him on the show.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what if it's like a Jewish wedding?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that's great.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: But where do you find it?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where do you find the time for this stuff?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is what you love to do.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: I have to do this to avoid myself from going crazy.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see, what else?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, um uh at starter, legendary sportswear salesman Eric Shapiro.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: I started calling him Shapiro De Niro, so we got this.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of recurring Jewish uh thematic in my humor.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Look at him light up.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's like lit up, like a Christmas tree.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're very talented.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see, what else we got?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, uh Brett Weiss from IMG.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: We we've done some licensing deals with him.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: So he kept talking about his vision.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I made a song called The Vision, and he's got like laser beams in his eyes.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: So the vision, the vision, the vision, the vision, the vision.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: So when he gets this, like, I want to know, you send it on text.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then did you get a response?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is it like, oh, that's so funny, or is someone just like, okay.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, they like it.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually it's very strange for a someone who does business with them to be writing songs about them.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think you'll write a song about me after this?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: I could, yeah.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: That would be really that would really be like throwing me a nice bouquet after all this hard work I did.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Two years.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: To get to you.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Let me think about the right genre, because I'm not sure what it should be.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Hip hop?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have a friend named Neil.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's the CEO of a company, an apparel company, a multi-t-shirt, an apparel company at Cincinnati.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I told him that I begin every day with this Neil meditation.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wait for the chorus.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's very powerful.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Have you written your wife a song?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: That would be too normal.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when you were dating Lauren, you had to have won her over with some of your weird stuff.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like there I want to hear like a specific thing that you did that was weird that she would if because I will get her on the show eventually.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I can't remember.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember any of them.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I remember, but like it was during COVID and I was.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember you came over to my place in COVID?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was waking up exhausted, um, stressed out, thought the bit I was gonna close the business.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: You came over and you gave me a pep talk.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: You were like, get out of this.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And a coffee.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: And a coffee.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: You were like, get out of this.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, you're in this head space.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, and like, you were like, people are depending on you.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, get out of this.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I did that for you, and it still took you two years to see me.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: That is true.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: I do owe you.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: You should be mad.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, you don't owe me anything, but damn, I really like cared about you.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: You you did.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what you gave me in return?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
• 37:53
  unknown: Okay.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think the stress just like messes with your memory and you don't remember stuff.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: You gave me a like legitimate, like, it was like 1990 photo of yourself on spring break.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have it somewhere.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: It is the funniest shit.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: You were like, because you were just being funny.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: You were like, here, this is you know, and it was just you were just it was just you, and you were just it was the funniest shit.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is why I love this guy.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: He is why I gave you an old photo of myself.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll have to find it.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm I'm glad that the gift resonated with you.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that my care really, you know.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: That was honestly, all bullshit aside, that was very um that was that was really nice of you.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I meant it.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you did.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: I felt it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: You felt like I don't just go randomly to people's apartments.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: But you do have random massage therapist named Boa Constrictor with Cobra coming into your house.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I was in Bali.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, all bets are off.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could get sliced on a mountain, nobody would ever find me again.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's all good.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just gotta let them.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Can I get this on record?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can we have coffee and talk about these other things?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is thank you.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: You said yes.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't say like you didn't mess around.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because don't you think, if you're being honest, do you think there's potential what I'm saying?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Could be very interesting.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, I have to go back and like look at the sales plan and make sure we're in the ballpark.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just As much as I'd love to, you know, like brainstorm your media concepts with you, man-eater media.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I just think there's a lot to discuss, that's all.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: There are synergies.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: There are synergies.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not trying to boil the ocean here.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Let's fucking do it.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: What about the investment banking?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do all that for you.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be like I'm gonna be like Ryan Vessler's one one-stop shop.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm looking for a banker who is also a baker.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I can do that too.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Take out the end, and you basically have the same thing.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a joy.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we could do this.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for putting up with my nonsense for two years.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love it.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for securing the locker room.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and thanks for being here.