Latest / Karl and Crew / Ministering to Women with Dr. Pamela McRae & Taking the Gospel to TikTok with York Moore
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- 0:00S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
- 0:06S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
- 0:10S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
- 0:16S1: the truth daily.
- 0:17S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available.
- 0:21S2: And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
- 0:25S2: that would make it worth it.
- 0:26S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
- 0:29S3: the life source, which is God.
- 0:32S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
- 0:36S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
- 0:39S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
- 0:44S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
- 0:48S1: and Crew.
- 0:49S5: You know when you are at the airport and it's
- 0:52S5: time to board. Mhm.
- 0:54S2: They call you in groups?
- 0:55S3: Yes.
- 0:57S2: And undoubtedly, If you're in a group like seven. Yeah.
- 1:03S2: Like as they start calling more and more groups.
- 1:05S4: Those were in gray canal board, those wearing blue canal board.
- 1:11S2: And it starts with like families with young children.
- 1:13S3: Oh, I love that phase of life.
- 1:15S2: That's yeah.
- 1:16S3: It's been the best thing ever.
- 1:18S2: That's right. Military.
- 1:20S4: Yeah.
- 1:20S2: Of course. Um, those who need extra assistance sure. Get
- 1:24S2: to board first.
- 1:25S4: Yeah.
- 1:26S2: And then you go group one. Group one proudly, proudly
- 1:29S2: stands up, marches their way.
- 1:31S3: I paid more for this.
- 1:32S2: Yeah. Group seven starts to get a little anxious, and
- 1:35S2: they start kind of forming like a little semicircle, like
- 1:38S2: standing just far enough back so as not to be
- 1:41S2: in the way, but close enough so that the minute
- 1:43S2: group seven is called. They can make a bolt to
- 1:45S2: be like, not the very last one on the plane
- 1:48S2: where you've got no overhead luggage space.
- 1:50S3: Yeah. And that in all honesty, that's kind of the
- 1:53S3: only place where I've seen it really matter is overhead luggage.
- 1:56S3: Unless you were on southwest where, you know, and they,
- 1:59S3: they even changed this where like the seats weren't assigned.
- 2:01S3: You got your assigned seat. Just who cares if you're
- 2:04S3: last you're sitting in the same spot.
- 2:06S2: It's the baggage thing.
- 2:07S3: It's the baggage thing.
- 2:08S2: It's the baggage thing and the experience, it being a
- 2:10S2: a more relaxed experience. Although the irony. My kids are
- 2:15S2: bigger now, but when my kids were little, I didn't
- 2:17S2: necessarily want to get on the plane first. Why? Only
- 2:20S2: because they're already going to be on the plane for
- 2:23S2: so long. Yeah, especially for like I did a lot
- 2:26S2: of international travel when my kids were young. So I'm like,
- 2:29S2: I'm not getting on and then sit there for 45
- 2:32S2: minutes before we even get off the ground.
- 2:34S4: Exactly.
- 2:35S2: And like, run around, burn off some energy here in
- 2:37S2: the airport.
- 2:38S3: A little bit. I guess that makes sense for me.
- 2:40S3: So my daughter, every time we've flown so far, she's
- 2:43S3: only she's had to be in a car seat that's
- 2:46S3: strapped in a thing. And so I don't want to
- 2:48S3: do that last on the plane while I'm, you know,
- 2:51S3: leaning over people trying to get this thing strapped in.
- 2:54S3: And so I need to be on there first. But
- 2:56S3: I'm also very happy because I also don't want to
- 3:00S3: stand in a slow moving line with a one year old.
- 3:04S3: I'd like to just get moving.
- 3:05S2: We like to find ways to, um, take advantage of perks.
- 3:10S3: 100%.
- 3:11S2: That's why you have probably apps on your phone for
- 3:14S2: the different places that you either buy food often.
- 3:16S4: For sure.
- 3:17S2: You have airline rewards, loyalty points, right? Some people try
- 3:22S2: to stick to a particular. Yeah. And why do we
- 3:26S2: like to do that? Why do we gravitate towards rewards clubs,
- 3:31S2: even TSA PreCheck? I'm definitely a fan of TSA PreCheck,
- 3:34S2: although now that most people have it in bigger cities,
- 3:37S2: it's kind of like.
- 3:38S3: Yeah, it's how much time is it saved?
- 3:40S2: There's there's something that honestly delights me when I go
- 3:44S2: get up to. And I see two different lines and
- 3:48S2: one of them is snaking around like, and you can
- 3:51S2: tell that's going to be like a 45 minute line.
- 3:54S2: And then you go to that either clear or TSA PreCheck,
- 3:57S2: and you see it's like a quarter of the length. Yes.
- 4:01S2: And then you just zip through the little stanchions and
- 4:03S2: you're already, you know, maybe 20 from the front.
- 4:05S3: Yeah, absolutely. Benefits make you feel special.
- 4:08S2: They make you feel good, right?
- 4:10S3: Absolutely. 100%. It's, uh, you know, Costco food court. You're
- 4:14S3: telling me I can, I can get a membership here
- 4:16S3: and I can, I can pay just $1.50 for a
- 4:19S3: foot long hot dog and a drink. Come on. That
- 4:21S3: sounds amazing.
- 4:22S4: Right?
- 4:23S2: That's. Prices stayed the same.
- 4:24S3: I can't. It doesn't make any sense.
- 4:25S4: I mean, scary, but.
- 4:27S3: They take they take a lot of losses on, like,
- 4:30S3: rotisserie chicken and food court because they know you'll buy
- 4:32S3: all the other things too.
- 4:33S2: Because they know you're going to buy a case of.
- 4:36S3: 100%.
- 4:37S2: Whatever, because you never go to Costco to sample anything.
- 4:41S2: Although the samples are.
- 4:42S3: Samples are.
- 4:42S2: Great, but like a product, like you can't like try it.
- 4:47S3: No, because you're getting 50 of them.
- 4:49S2: And if you don't like it, well, I guess you
- 4:50S2: could return it.
- 4:51S3: You could, But.
- 4:53S2: But I digress.
- 4:53S4: You bought like. Yeah.
- 4:55S3: You can't eat six burgers and go. I didn't like
- 4:57S3: these burgers. I'm returning them.
- 4:59S2: Back to the perks. Whether it's the cutting the of
- 5:02S2: the line or getting into a shorter line. How would
- 5:06S2: you feel? Let's take, um, let's take our example of
- 5:12S2: the of the airport group numbers. You are in group seven.
- 5:17S3: Okay.
- 5:18S2: You wait your turn. Yes. You noticed somebody with maybe
- 5:24S2: traveling a group of friends. You happen to see their
- 5:27S2: boarding pass? They they have boarding group eight. But you
- 5:31S2: happen to notice when boarding group four is called, they
- 5:35S2: just kind of slip into the line.
- 5:37S3: I've seen.
- 5:37S2: It. How do you feel about that?
- 5:38S3: Ooh, injustice. Let's bring the hammer down upon him. Maybe
- 5:43S3: they should miss their whole flight for trying to do this.
- 5:46S2: How dare they?
- 5:47S3: How dare they? I'm sitting back here waiting my turn.
- 5:49S3: And you're just gonna to jump in the front. That's wrong.
- 5:53S2: It's hard wired in us, isn't it?
- 5:55S3: 100%. I'd say we get a whole kangaroo court right
- 5:58S3: here in this airport.
- 6:01S2: We feel like if special privileges apply to us, other
- 6:06S2: people who don't have special privileges.
- 6:08S4: Get out of the way.
- 6:09S2: Should not be able to just jump in. Correct? Right.
- 6:13S3: Yes.
- 6:14S2: I bet you could tell I'm going here. Going somewhere
- 6:17S2: with this for sure. Oh, we're going back to the
- 6:19S2: parables on this back to school week. We've got a
- 6:22S2: lot to learn when it comes to the upside down
- 6:25S2: kingdom of God.
- 6:27S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.
- 6:31S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
- 6:35S1: Moody Radio.
- 6:36S2: We are hard wired to crave a sense of fairness. Yes, justice.
- 6:44S4: Yes.
- 6:45S2: But there's layers to it because there's the kind of justice. That's.
- 6:50S2: I want somebody who does something wrong. I don't want
- 6:56S2: that to go unpunished. Sure. I don't want to. There.
- 7:01S2: We feel dissatisfied when a crime goes unsolved. There's a
- 7:06S2: reason why they have cold case units.
- 7:08S3: Yeah, because people, they don't want to stop looking. Because
- 7:11S3: it's right that a person pays for their crimes.
- 7:14S2: There's this sense that no justice demands that somebody be
- 7:17S2: held accountable. Right. So there's that sense of hardwired desire
- 7:22S2: for justice. But there's this other hardwired sense that leans
- 7:27S2: a little bit more towards entitlement. It's not, I want
- 7:30S2: something that's done wrong to be made right. It's, I
- 7:35S2: want something that I deserve, and I don't want someone
- 7:39S2: who doesn't deserve it to get it to.
- 7:43S3: Yeah, absolutely. This is mine. It shouldn't. I worked for this.
- 7:47S3: I did this, I earned it on my own. Yes.
- 7:50S3: Why do they get to do what I get to
- 7:52S3: do when they didn't work as hard?
- 7:54S2: And it's the whole reason why we you think about
- 7:56S2: the way we function in traffic. People get irate when
- 8:01S2: there's a merge kind of in everybody's sort of zippers in. Oh,
- 8:06S2: but some guy.
- 8:07S3: Yeah.
- 8:08S2: Drives on the shoulder.
- 8:11S3: Oh man. That's me. I get irate about that.
- 8:14S2: Goes all the way up to the front. And then
- 8:16S2: he has the audacity to.
- 8:18S3: Put his little blinker on.
- 8:19S2: To kind of insert themselves in. Yeah. Or when there's
- 8:22S2: a line at the grocery store, it is just it
- 8:25S2: is an unwritten rule. When you come, you wait your turn.
- 8:30S3: Yes.
- 8:32S2: It's not that there's a crime that needs to be
- 8:35S2: accounted for.
- 8:36S3: It says you.
- 8:37S2: It's that we feel like I'm entitled to certain things.
- 8:41S2: And other people should have to go through the same
- 8:44S2: process and come after, of course.
- 8:46S3: 100%.
- 8:47S2: Wait, let's go to Matthew 19.
- 8:50S3: Don't do it. I'm just kidding.
- 8:51S4: Don't do.
- 8:51S2: It. You know, Jesus tells a number of parables that
- 8:56S2: start with the kingdom of God is like. Yes. To
- 8:59S2: help bring understanding to those who have ears to hear
- 9:04S2: of what the Kingdom of God is like. And spoiler alert,
- 9:08S2: it's an upside down kingdom. So all of the things
- 9:12S2: that the disciples and for us then and now understand
- 9:18S2: kind of innately to be true about the world that
- 9:21S2: we live in, Jesus has a way of flipping it
- 9:24S2: upside down. Before I get to the parable that we're
- 9:27S2: going to talk about in Matthew 20, I want to
- 9:30S2: give you a setup from Matthew 19. So you can
- 9:33S2: kind of we can kind of put ourselves in the
- 9:35S2: shoes of the disciples as they would be hearing this
- 9:38S2: and understanding it. So a series of things happen prior
- 9:41S2: to the telling of this parable. It's the parable of
- 9:45S2: the laborers in the vineyard. But prior to that, Jesus
- 9:48S2: blesses children. Do we remember that when they. He says,
- 9:52S2: let the children come to me. Do not hinder them.
- 9:55S2: He welcomes in children.
- 9:57S3: As the disciples turned them away.
- 9:58S2: Exactly. For to such belongs the kingdom of heaven. That's
- 10:02S2: Matthew 19, verse 14, that's directly followed by his encounter
- 10:07S2: with the rich young ruler, a man who comes up
- 10:10S2: to him. He's got great wealth. And he says, teacher,
- 10:13S2: what good deed must I do to have eternal life?
- 10:17S2: In other words, how can I earn my eternal life?
- 10:21S2: What do I have to do? And so Jesus has
- 10:24S2: this fascinating exchange with him where the rich young ruler
- 10:28S2: ends up kind of congratulating himself on, I have done
- 10:32S2: all of these things.
- 10:33S3: Yes. Fantastic.
- 10:34S2: Look at.
- 10:35S3: Me. I've got it.
- 10:36S2: I should be welcomed on in.
- 10:37S4: Yeah.
- 10:39S2: But Jesus kind of gives him the kicker. If you
- 10:42S2: would be perfect, go sell what you possess and give
- 10:45S2: to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
- 10:47S2: And come, follow me. The young man walks away sorrowful,
- 10:50S2: for he had great possessions. Jesus was exposing his heart
- 10:57S2: that really he loved his wealth and his riches more
- 11:00S2: than he desire. That he had to follow Jesus.
- 11:02S3: Correct.
- 11:04S2: So the disciples are taking this all in and they
- 11:09S2: hear them. Jesus turned the young ruler away, not because
- 11:12S2: he doesn't love him, but because his heart has been exposed.
- 11:16S2: Jesus said to his disciples, truly I say to you,
- 11:18S2: only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom
- 11:21S2: of heaven. Again, I tell you, it is easier for
- 11:24S2: a camel to go through the eye of a needle
- 11:26S2: than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
- 11:29S2: The disciples, at this point they are astonished.
- 11:31S3: Yes.
- 11:32S2: Who can be saved? Because that's possible here.
- 11:37S3: Culturally, they thought, you know, wealth was a sign of
- 11:41S3: blessing from God, which in a lot of senses, it
- 11:45S3: absolutely is. But they were like, well, if a rich
- 11:48S3: person can't be saved and they're blessed from God, then
- 11:52S3: what chance do I have?
- 11:54S2: Peter says, we've left everything to follow you. What? What
- 11:59S2: will we have? And Jesus reassures them that everyone who
- 12:04S2: has left houses, or brothers or sisters or fathers or
- 12:07S2: mothers or children or lands for my name's sake, will
- 12:10S2: receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. But many
- 12:13S2: who are first will be last and the last first.
- 12:17S2: Want you to, in your mind, put a pin in
- 12:19S2: that last little statement. Many who are first will be
- 12:22S2: last and the last first, because that's going to come
- 12:25S2: back in just a couple of verses. But think about
- 12:28S2: this for just a second. So many who are first
- 12:30S2: will be last. The rich young ruler in most contexts
- 12:34S2: would be ushered to the front of the line. Right?
- 12:36S3: Absolutely.
- 12:37S2: Wealth got you a lot of influence. Power. Prestige. Position. Yes. Correct.
- 12:44S2: And then you have these young children who should be
- 12:46S2: at the back of the line, but yet Jesus brings
- 12:48S2: them to the front of the line. Right. Because he
- 12:52S2: says such belonged to the to the kingdom of heaven
- 12:55S2: belongs to such as these, those with childlike faith. Yeah.
- 12:58S2: So this any sort of ordering system that they would
- 13:01S2: be familiar with. Jesus is turning upside down wealth. Mhm.
- 13:06S2: That's not going to get it. But children who offer nothing,
- 13:12S2: who don't have any influence, Jesus says the kingdom of
- 13:15S2: heaven belongs to these. Then we're going to get to
- 13:18S2: Matthew 20 coming up. The first will be last and
- 13:23S2: the last first. The disciples at this point have to
- 13:26S2: probably be feeling pretty good.
- 13:29S3: I think so.
- 13:30S2: Yeah. This is this is good news for us. It
- 13:33S2: goes on. The news is still good, but there's more
- 13:36S2: flipping upside down. Jesus is not done yet. More coming
- 13:39S2: up here on Carl and crew.
- 13:41S1: Take your next step with Jesus today. You're listening to
- 13:45S1: Carl and crew.
- 13:47S2: When Peter asks Jesus, we've left everything and followed you.
- 13:51S2: What then will we have? Jesus reassures him. He reassures
- 13:57S2: the disciples that there will be great reward for them.
- 14:00S2: Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or
- 14:04S2: father or mother or children or lands for my name's sake,
- 14:07S2: will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. That
- 14:11S2: had to be really comforting to hear.
- 14:13S3: Oh my goodness. Yeah. They're like, okay, it's so quiet
- 14:15S3: in here. I'm on the right path with Jesus.
- 14:17S2: But many who are first will be last and the
- 14:20S2: last first. That's the last verse of verse 19. And
- 14:23S2: then he continues verse in the chapter 20. He continues,
- 14:29S2: the thought for the kingdom of heaven is like. So
- 14:32S2: this is a continuation of this whole instruction. And then
- 14:36S2: he goes on. I'm going to summarize some of this
- 14:39S2: to tell them about a parable about a master of
- 14:42S2: a house who goes out early in the morning to
- 14:45S2: hire laborers for his vineyard. He agrees with the laborers
- 14:49S2: that he's going to pay them a denarius, which is
- 14:52S2: the equivalent of one day's wages to work for the day.
- 14:55S2: And he sends them off to work in the vineyard.
- 14:58S2: A couple hours past this landowner. He sees some other
- 15:02S2: people standing who don't have work. So he says, come on,
- 15:07S2: you can work in the field to the vineyard. Another
- 15:11S2: three hours passed. Now, the 11th hour, he goes out
- 15:14S2: and he finds more standing around, not working. He invites
- 15:18S2: them in. Why do you stand here idle all day?
- 15:21S2: He said, no one has hired us. And he says,
- 15:23S2: you go into the vineyard too. So then evening comes.
- 15:28S2: The owner says to his foreman, call the laborers, gather
- 15:31S2: everybody around. It's time to pay them their wages, beginning
- 15:35S2: with the last up to the first. Now I'm going
- 15:38S2: to read to you. This is Matthew 20, starting with
- 15:40S2: verse nine. And when those hired about the 11th hour came,
- 15:46S2: each of them received a denarius. Now when those hired
- 15:50S2: first came, they thought they would receive more, but each
- 15:53S2: of them also received a denarius. And on receiving it,
- 15:58S2: they grumbled at the master of the house, saying, these
- 16:00S2: last worked only one hour, and you have made them
- 16:04S2: equal to us who have borne the burden of the
- 16:07S2: day and the scorching heat. Imagine this for a minute.
- 16:12S2: And this is a parable. So this didn't actually happen,
- 16:15S2: but this was a parable, right? The people who were
- 16:18S2: hired in the 11th hour were paid first, and were
- 16:22S2: paid the same amount as those who had worked the
- 16:25S2: entire day. This seems really unfair in this parable, right?
- 16:31S3: Sure. Absolutely. It does.
- 16:33S4: Definitely on the surface, of course.
- 16:35S2: And you can identify with that feeling.
- 16:37S3: Yeah, I worked harder, I did more, I should make more.
- 16:41S2: I have TSA PreCheck. Don't you know.
- 16:44S4: There's a tinge going hey, wait a minute.
- 16:47S2: You don't have TSA PreCheck. You shouldn't be in this line.
- 16:50S2: I'm supposed to be in front.
- 16:52S3: Absolutely.
- 16:53S2: Matthew 20, verse 13. But he replied to one of them, friend,
- 16:56S2: I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree
- 16:59S2: with me for a denarius? Take what belongs to you
- 17:02S2: and go. I choose to give to this last worker
- 17:05S2: as I give to you. And then verse 15, am
- 17:09S2: I not allowed to do what I choose with what
- 17:11S2: belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity? So
- 17:17S2: the last will be first and the first last. Got
- 17:20S2: a bit of a full circle moment here, right?
- 17:23S4: Absolutely.
- 17:24S2: So the disciples, their understanding of the kingdom of God
- 17:27S2: that any sort of riches or wealth would get you
- 17:31S2: to the front of the line. No no no no,
- 17:33S2: that's not how it works. The first will be last
- 17:35S2: and the last will be first. But also any sort
- 17:39S2: of notion that the people who were to come after
- 17:43S2: them should not be granted the same generosity afforded to them.
- 17:50S2: It's not a system of merit. It's not how hard
- 17:53S2: that you can work. It's not how many hours you
- 17:56S2: put in. The landowner clearly representing God here, does he
- 18:01S2: not have the right? Do we begrudge his generosity because
- 18:05S2: he's generous to other people? In the same way he's
- 18:09S2: been generous to us? Or they felt like even though
- 18:14S2: a denarius was what was agreed upon from the very beginning,
- 18:18S2: they didn't want the person who came in the 11th
- 18:21S2: hour to get the same thing.
- 18:23S3: Exactly.
- 18:23S2: Felt very unfair.
- 18:25S3: Because they did more.
- 18:27S2: The last will be first and the first last.
- 18:31S3: I mean, this is perfectly played out in The Thief
- 18:35S3: on the cross.
- 18:36S2: Yeah.
- 18:36S3: You know, he he literally had no opportunity to go
- 18:40S3: do anything in life. If we're talking about working a
- 18:44S3: certain amount of hours, it's like he came in in
- 18:47S3: the final minute and just showed up and then got
- 18:49S3: paid like that. There was no time to live for Jesus,
- 18:54S3: for him, other than the last few hours he had
- 18:56S3: on the cross to, to to believe in him and
- 18:59S3: surrender himself to him. None of us would sit here
- 19:03S3: and go, well, that's not really fair.
- 19:06S2: It's not.
- 19:06S3: Fair. I lived for Jesus for five years. Ten years,
- 19:09S3: 15 years. Why should he get salvation? And I just
- 19:12S3: get the exact same thing.
- 19:14S4: It's God's grace. And how do you. You can not
- 19:18S4: question God's grace. It's for all. It's for everyone.
- 19:23S2: It reveals a thinking when we take the obvious application
- 19:27S2: of this did we did. Do we receive the grace
- 19:31S2: of God because we earned it? No, because we worked
- 19:34S2: harder or longer than someone else?
- 19:37S3: No. Certainly not. We better not think that.
- 19:39S2: Do we begrudge the God whose character is so generous
- 19:43S2: that he welcomes children, that he welcomes sinners, that he
- 19:49S2: turns everything upside down? I love this parable.
- 19:53S3: I do too. I think it's a fantastic, fantastic teaching
- 19:59S3: that shows really none of us earn anything.
- 20:03S4: No, no.
- 20:04S2: Now, this does not suggest that there are not rewards
- 20:08S2: in heaven. Degrees of rewards. We see that elsewhere in Scripture.
- 20:12S2: But when we think of the grace of God that
- 20:14S2: is freely extended to those who will turn to him
- 20:20S2: and come. Mhm. We don't want to be the type
- 20:24S2: of people who apply a worldly standard to God's grace.
- 20:31S4: I think this is a parable of maturity, spiritual maturity
- 20:33S4: as well. Because absolutely, it's like, hey, I'm first in
- 20:36S4: the TSA line, but you know what? Go ahead. I
- 20:39S4: want you to have the benefits and the joy of
- 20:42S4: these same gifts and benefits of this grace. Yes. You
- 20:46S4: know what? Go ahead of me. It's okay.
- 20:48S2: For the kingdom of heaven is like. That's what it
- 20:51S2: starts with. That's what he wanted them to understand. You
- 20:54S2: want to know what the kingdom of heaven is like?
- 20:57S2: The last will be first, and the first will be last.
- 21:00S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
- 21:04S2: Well, continuing our theme Back to School week as we
- 21:07S2: are inviting Moody Bible Institute professors into studio to teach
- 21:11S2: just a little bit of what they are teaching their
- 21:13S2: classes this semester. Doctor Pam McRae is joining us, professor
- 21:16S2: and the program head for Ministry to Women right here
- 21:19S2: at Moody Bible Institute. Also ministry to victims of sexual Exploitation.
- 21:24S2: When you. Your approach to welcoming students in studying women
- 21:29S2: of the Bible is that usually a highly sought after course?
- 21:33S2: Or do people come in. They're going, what are we
- 21:35S2: going to learn in this class? How many women are
- 21:37S2: there to study in the Bible?
- 21:38S6: Well, that's a very good question, because I think that
- 21:41S6: regularly I have students who don't know women in the Bible.
- 21:45S6: And so I think they're interested, you know, women in
- 21:48S6: the church right now is, I think, very interesting. And
- 21:54S6: topics are very public and conversations happen all the time. Sure.
- 22:00S2: So sometimes controversial.
- 22:03S6: Yeah. Well, you know, but that's good. It garners interest
- 22:08S6: when it's controversial.
- 22:09S2: Yeah. Why is this exciting for you personally to teach?
- 22:13S6: Because I think it's fabulous. And that when we know
- 22:17S6: how God has used women in the Scripture, it helps
- 22:21S6: us have a vision for how he can use us now.
- 22:25S6: And so, I mean, some of the women in Scripture
- 22:29S6: are surprising to many of my students.
- 22:32S2: Let's let's start there then. Who are some of the
- 22:34S2: women in Scripture who are most surprising to your students?
- 22:38S6: Well, you know what women can say about Scripture or
- 22:43S6: how we speak the Word of God to other people
- 22:46S6: is often, um, a curious topic. And there are some
- 22:52S6: ways in which sometimes women feel limited in, in various settings.
- 22:58S6: And so I like to go back and talk about
- 23:00S6: how God gave us shepherds in the Old Testament to
- 23:05S6: be the ones he was, you know, Israel was a theocracy.
- 23:10S6: And so he was king over all. Yeah. But he
- 23:13S6: gave people positions to take care of his people. And
- 23:19S6: so he gave the nation they had a king. So
- 23:22S6: we think of let's think of David, a man after
- 23:26S6: God's own heart. So God gave the nation kings to
- 23:30S6: send them in their ways to follow the Lord. So
- 23:35S6: the king was responsible for that, responsible for other governmental things,
- 23:39S6: you know, building roads, building the kingdom. And so then
- 23:42S6: God gave the priests who were in charge of the
- 23:46S6: temple and sacrifices and would go in to have conversation
- 23:50S6: with God about his people. So the priest spoke to
- 23:55S6: God about the people of God. And then there were
- 23:58S6: prophets who would receive the message of God to give
- 24:02S6: to the people of God. And we know there were
- 24:04S6: prophetesses both in the Old Testament and the New Testament.
- 24:07S6: So when I talk about Huldah, who was one of
- 24:11S6: the prophetesses that we have probably more of her content
- 24:17S6: that she gave not only to the high priests and
- 24:21S6: the leaders of. For King Josiah she spoke the very
- 24:25S6: words of God to the people of God. To the
- 24:28S6: men who were in leadership and took the message back
- 24:31S6: to King Josiah. And so I'd like to talk about
- 24:34S6: how that shapes and forms some of our questions that
- 24:38S6: we have about women doing God's work now.
- 24:42S2: So, Huldah, is that Huldah?
- 24:44S6: HULDA.
- 24:46S2: And where do we see her? In Scripture.
- 24:48S6: Well, we find her in Scripture in Second Kings, chapter
- 24:51S6: 22 and in second Chronicles 34. And so that's the
- 24:56S6: place where Josiah is given the word of the Lord
- 24:59S6: from the temple that they found when they were doing renovations.
- 25:02S6: And he tears his clothes because he realized the weightiness
- 25:06S6: of having neglected the word of God. But now having
- 25:08S6: found the Word of God, and he said, we need
- 25:10S6: to find out what this means. And so he sent
- 25:13S6: his top officials to go speak to Huldah and get
- 25:17S6: a word from the Lord.
- 25:18S2: Amazing. Doctor Pam McCray with us for Back to School week. So,
- 25:22S2: doctor McCray, Ministry to women is a major that's offered here.
- 25:25S2: And one of the courses, Ministry to Women in Pain.
- 25:28S2: Tell me a little bit more about that.
- 25:30S6: Yeah. I teach two classes that relate to that topic,
- 25:35S6: and it started with ministry to Women in Pain. And
- 25:38S6: what we talk about is, um, how do we understand
- 25:41S6: suffering as it relates to God's intervention in our life?
- 25:45S6: And that's really hard. It's really hard when we're going
- 25:49S6: through difficult times to think God knows what's going on,
- 25:54S6: how come he doesn't just like fix this? And so
- 25:57S6: we talk about that. But then we read a book
- 26:00S6: called Shepherding Women in Pain that goes through about 20 different, um,
- 26:05S6: experiences that women have that, that are suffering like depression, anxiety, miscarriages,
- 26:11S6: incarcerated relatives, Um, sexuality. And so we study these kinds
- 26:18S6: of experiences and help students know how to care well,
- 26:23S6: and how to have a biblical perspective on what it
- 26:26S6: means to help people who are suffering. And then I
- 26:31S6: also teach similar kinds of contents for a class called
- 26:35S6: Pastoral Care of Women where, um, you know, Moody has
- 26:39S6: both men and women in pastoral studies department, but I
- 26:42S6: get to take all the male pastoral majors and then
- 26:45S6: have a whole class that they're required to take a
- 26:47S6: three hour class on. How are they able to understand
- 26:51S6: how to pastor and shepherd women appropriately? And, and with
- 26:57S6: the kind of attention that a pastor needs to give
- 27:01S6: to his flock. And so I'm so thankful to be
- 27:04S6: able to do that because there's a lot of question
- 27:07S6: about that. And we know from Ezekiel 34 that God
- 27:12S6: does not take kindly to shepherds who don't shepherd the flock.
- 27:16S6: And so pastors. And then also, I think we all
- 27:19S6: are required to care for the ones that God brings
- 27:24S6: in our pathway. Um, men and women, boys and girls.
- 27:27S6: And so we need to not neglect those who are
- 27:30S6: suffering around us.
- 27:32S2: Now, in your study, both personally, but also as you
- 27:35S2: teach the course, what's different about ministering to women in pain? Um,
- 27:40S2: that maybe gets overlooked because obviously there's a course on
- 27:43S2: it because some of the things that are maybe assumed
- 27:46S2: or have been relied upon in the past aren't particularly effective.
- 27:51S2: What are some of the ways that maybe we have
- 27:53S2: room to grow and are growing in that area as
- 27:56S2: a church?
- 27:57S6: Well, I think first we need to understand that we
- 28:00S6: minister through the spirit and by the spirit. And so
- 28:04S6: one of the questions I get often is, well, I've
- 28:07S6: never experienced that. So how would I know how to
- 28:11S6: care for this person. And that particularly comes in the
- 28:14S6: class where the male pastor says, I've you know, I've
- 28:16S6: never experienced things women experience. How can I minister them?
- 28:19S6: And I always say, there's so much that's common to
- 28:23S6: humanity that we can understand the pain of others, even
- 28:25S6: if we haven't had that particular situation. And God wants
- 28:29S6: us to trust him to be used by the spirit
- 28:34S6: and not rely on our experiences. So that's, that's one.
- 28:38S6: And the other is I think we sometimes think we
- 28:42S6: need to have the answers both biblically and kind of
- 28:47S6: in a counseling way so that we understand the depth
- 28:50S6: of the need. And I think, oh my goodness, that's
- 28:54S6: such a burden. Let's page back in our mind a
- 28:58S6: little bit and just trust that the spirit will help us.
- 29:01S6: We don't have to have all the knowledge to help.
- 29:06S6: And then thirdly, I would say there's such a ministry
- 29:10S6: of presence. So one of the requirements that I have
- 29:15S6: is from a chapel service that we had here several
- 29:19S6: years ago, Jill Briscoe came and talked about job. And,
- 29:25S6: you know, job's friends did good ministry when they came
- 29:29S6: and sat with him and didn't say anything. And then
- 29:32S6: after they'd sat with job for a while, um, they
- 29:36S6: started talking and they sort of, you know, from there on,
- 29:40S6: it was like, you know, a ministry of presence is
- 29:43S6: better for job right now. But, um, but that message,
- 29:48S6: it's so profound that people need to have a witness
- 29:53S6: to their pain and have somebody talk to them and
- 29:55S6: talk about their pain. Because we really learn a lot
- 29:59S6: when we speak it out loud and somebody reflects, reflects
- 30:03S6: back to us and says, oh, I really see that
- 30:06S6: you're hurting in this way. Oh, I see that this
- 30:08S6: happened to you. And that was just terrible. That was terrible.
- 30:11S6: That was wrong. Terrible. And I'm so sorry. And so
- 30:15S6: the Ministry of Presence is really something that God uses
- 30:18S6: powerfully in all of our lives.
- 30:21S2: Because I think the tendency and everybody will admit to
- 30:24S2: having done this at some point in time is to
- 30:26S2: want to try to jump in with a jump in
- 30:29S2: with a verse to apply somebody's hurting and you, your
- 30:32S2: intentions are good. So you want to give them a
- 30:34S2: verse or you want to, you know, kind of wrap
- 30:38S2: things up in a bow or give them the, the
- 30:40S2: silver lining or the other perspective or all of these
- 30:43S2: things that we hopefully are learning are not effective in
- 30:47S2: the immediacy that that ministry of presence precedes other types
- 30:52S2: of ministry. There's a time for giving, pointing people to
- 30:55S2: the Word of God. We absolutely want to be doing that.
- 30:57S2: But sometimes we jump too quickly to try to solve
- 31:00S2: and fix before showing care and compassion.
- 31:03S6: Yeah. Because, you know, what that often does is just
- 31:06S6: make the person who hears that and knows the verse
- 31:09S6: just feel like, and yes, I'm a failure too, and
- 31:12S6: I'm doing this badly, and the Lord would like me
- 31:15S6: to feel joy in this tremendous pain right now, when
- 31:19S6: maybe they need to, you know, just wait and, and,
- 31:24S6: and say things that are comforting. Um, because if you know,
- 31:29S6: this person knows the verses, it isn't necessarily the thing
- 31:34S6: to say at the time, but we, we do that
- 31:37S6: better when we're relying on the spirit the whole time
- 31:39S6: and just praying, Lord, should I say this or should
- 31:42S6: I not? Um, sometimes it relieves our angst. Yeah, we
- 31:45S6: want to say something that helps. And, um, so I
- 31:50S6: understand that. So to sit in the discomfort is hard sometimes.
- 31:55S6: And then the other thing we do is we say,
- 31:57S6: oh yeah, me too. You want to hear what happened
- 31:58S6: to me?
- 31:59S7: Yeah.
- 31:59S6: And that's, that's comforting in certain conversations, you know, like me,
- 32:04S6: if you go to lunch with your girlfriends, you sit
- 32:06S6: there and you have this kind of conversation back and
- 32:08S6: forth for hours, and it's friendship, connection. But when it's
- 32:13S6: the kind of thing, when we're having a conversation with
- 32:16S6: somebody in deep pain, um, I always suggest that when
- 32:21S6: you're hearing that, just ask follow up questions. Don't do anything,
- 32:26S6: but ask follow up questions for a while. Try to
- 32:28S6: find something in the story at that point that you, um,
- 32:32S6: ask that allows them to open up and talk more
- 32:36S6: about what they're going through. And, um, and there's a
- 32:39S6: time and place, but you know, you can't make a,
- 32:43S6: you can't make an outline and say, follow this outline
- 32:46S6: and it'll be the right thing.
- 32:48S2: Right?
- 32:48S6: I don't think the spirit gives us an outline. So, um,
- 32:52S6: but we do have wisdom and it just, you know,
- 32:54S6: the spirit applies what we need when we need it.
- 32:56S2: Yeah. What are you most excited about for this this
- 32:58S2: semester with your students?
- 33:00S6: You know, I just love the beginning. I just love
- 33:03S6: the beginning. And I look at. I have one freshman
- 33:05S6: class every fall spiritual formation class, and I love that.
- 33:10S6: I love to just see the freshmen come in. And
- 33:13S6: I'm excited for who God is raising up and bringing
- 33:17S6: to Moody. I love, love, love, love, love that.
- 33:19S2: That's amazing. Doctor Pam McCray, professor here at Moody Bible Institute.
- 33:23S2: If you want more on Moody, that's moody online, Moody
- 33:27S2: in person. Also an option for high schoolers to get
- 33:30S2: dual credit. Just text Moody to 805 557898, Moody to
- 33:36S2: 805 five, five, 78, 98.
- 33:39S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
- 33:43S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
- 33:47S1: Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 33:50S8: Well, everybody is looking for something.
- 33:52S2: Even if they can't put words to it, even if
- 33:55S2: they can't put a finger on it, we're all. And
- 33:57S2: each day we are looking for purpose. We're looking for meaning.
- 34:01S2: We're looking for fulfillment. Sometimes looking for pleasure. Our York
- 34:04S2: more our guests. Right now he's a gifted speaker revivalist.
- 34:08S2: He's an accomplished TikToker. Yes. Yeah. We'll get to that
- 34:12S2: in a minute. He's the currently the president CEO and
- 34:14S2: national evangelist for the coalition for Christian Outreach. You are
- 34:18S2: active in ministry. Are York more. But before that you
- 34:22S2: were a college kid looking for something. What was it
- 34:26S2: you were looking for?
- 34:27S9: Well, I was an unusual college student because I wasn't
- 34:30S9: looking for a good job or a spouse. I went
- 34:33S9: to college searching for the meaning of the universe. I
- 34:36S9: was raised by atheists.
- 34:37S8: Okay, wait. You really?
- 34:39S2: At the time that's what you knew you were looking for?
- 34:41S9: Yes, absolutely.
- 34:42S8: Wow.
- 34:43S9: Okay. And I went to the University of Michigan. Go blue.
- 34:46S9: Still live here in the Ann Arbor area. I'm a
- 34:48S9: tried and true wolverine, but being raised by atheists. When
- 34:51S9: I came to college, I took on that mantle. And
- 34:55S9: in fact, my nickname in my fraternity was Satan, because
- 34:57S9: I persecuted Christians and wrote papers against Christians. Wow. But
- 35:00S9: I was looking for the foundation for my life. If
- 35:05S9: there's no God, if there's no transcendence, can anything mean
- 35:08S9: anything at all? And that was the quest that I
- 35:11S9: was on. So I was quite certain that the answer
- 35:13S9: was no. But I wanted to make sure. And so
- 35:16S9: I became an honors student in both data sciences section
- 35:19S9: of the psychology department. And my great love, which was
- 35:22S9: the philosophy department. So that's that's how I went to college,
- 35:26S9: searching for the meaning of the universe.
- 35:29S2: At what point did you realize that wait, my the
- 35:34S2: purposelessness of atheism. When did that all start to become
- 35:38S2: clear to you? And the answers found in Jesus Christ illuminated.
- 35:42S9: Well, you know, I don't think I was looking for
- 35:44S9: answers in religion. In fact, I was quite sure there
- 35:47S9: were none. And so when I got to the end
- 35:50S9: of my studies, my philosophic studies, I turned my honors
- 35:53S9: thesis in to the chair of our department. And it
- 35:57S9: was basically an atheistic expression that we call existentialism. You know,
- 36:01S9: think about Jean-Paul Sartre and others. And I remember turning
- 36:04S9: that paper in, and this is the short version. This
- 36:07S9: isn't the first encounter with the Holy Spirit. But I
- 36:10S9: turned that paper in and I walked out of the building,
- 36:13S9: and a cold blast of Michigan air swept the parking lot.
- 36:16S9: And I literally heard the voice of God. And I
- 36:19S9: wouldn't have used those words at the time, but I
- 36:21S9: heard God ask this question if you really believe everything
- 36:24S9: that you've written in that paper, why do anything at all?
- 36:27S9: Because I was a, you know, intJ type three, you know,
- 36:30S9: type A personality. I was a driver. I had multiple
- 36:33S9: jobs and multiple girlfriends. And I was an honor student
- 36:36S9: in multiple departments. And God basically brought me to my
- 36:40S9: knees by asking this question, why do anything at all
- 36:43S9: if it doesn't matter? I didn't have an answer for that,
- 36:45S9: but I knew that if there was a being that
- 36:47S9: was speaking to me in this wind, then I got
- 36:50S9: to figure out who he or she or it is.
- 36:53S9: And so I did something very unusual as an atheist.
- 36:55S9: I started to pray and I said, every day I said,
- 36:59S9: Dear Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, he, she it. Whoever you are,
- 37:03S9: show me the money. And I was looking for the
- 37:05S9: angel Moroni or some algorithm to fall out of the
- 37:07S9: sky to demonstrate to me for sure that there was
- 37:11S9: a God. And so I started reading the Bible and
- 37:14S9: reading the Upanishads and reading the Quran and talking to
- 37:17S9: Muslims and talking to pastors and talking to Christians. And
- 37:20S9: after several weeks of investigation, I came to the conclusion
- 37:23S9: that there really is no God, and religious people have
- 37:26S9: no foundation for their ideology. And so therefore, I was
- 37:29S9: going to kill myself. And so it was a rational
- 37:31S9: decision to commit suicide. It wasn't because I was depressed
- 37:34S9: or anything like that. It was, you know, the end
- 37:36S9: of the conclusion and existentialism. We call this the great angst.
- 37:40S9: When you come to the end of yourself and you
- 37:43S9: come to the end of the world and there is nothing,
- 37:46S9: it's just a great void of nothingness. But before I
- 37:49S9: did the act, I said, well, you know, maybe, uh,
- 37:52S9: maybe God can speak for himself. And so I went
- 37:55S9: back to prayer, and after hearing nothing, I remember it
- 37:58S9: all came to a head. December 24th, 1989, Christmas Eve.
- 38:02S9: I'm sitting in the movie theater watching The Little Mermaid
- 38:05S9: with my fiance at that point, and I had what
- 38:08S9: I would call an atheistic epiphany. There is no God.
- 38:12S9: There is no afterlife. There is no meaning. There is
- 38:14S9: no purpose. It's all cartoons and sex and drugs and
- 38:18S9: the accumulation of material wealth. And if that's all there is,
- 38:21S9: I'm killing myself tonight. So I got my girlfriend or
- 38:24S9: my fiance rather dropped off at her house. I got
- 38:27S9: my car going about 90 miles an hour down the freeway.
- 38:29S9: A power and a presence flooded my car, took hold
- 38:32S9: of the wheel, and in that moment of decision, steered
- 38:35S9: me to safety. See, I'm the original Jesus take the
- 38:38S9: wheel story. I should be getting royalties, but I haven't
- 38:41S9: seen any checks yet. Wow. That encounter wasn't enough to
- 38:45S9: convert me. I still didn't know who I had this encounter,
- 38:48S9: what it meant, but it was enough to get me
- 38:49S9: home that night and I fell asleep. Woke up on
- 38:52S9: Christmas morning. And this is where my story with Jesus begins.
- 38:56S9: Christmas morning I wake up and for the first time
- 38:58S9: I pray a prayer of desperation. I said, God, if
- 39:01S9: that was you last night, I need to know right
- 39:03S9: now because I'm still going to kill myself. And I
- 39:06S9: walked into the next room, and my two older brothers
- 39:08S9: were also home from the University of Michigan, Go Blue.
- 39:11S9: And we were all sitting around the living room, and
- 39:14S9: one of my brothers, none of them were Christians, but
- 39:16S9: he had brought the poem footprints in the sand, a
- 39:19S9: very large printed, framed poster of the poem footprints in
- 39:24S9: the sand. And if you're not familiar with that, it's
- 39:26S9: just a story about how God is active in our lives,
- 39:28S9: how he's working in our lives, particularly during times of
- 39:32S9: difficulty and challenge. And I'm reading this, and I actually
- 39:36S9: heard the voice of God say three things to me
- 39:38S9: that changed my forever. He said, number one, I do exist.
- 39:42S9: Number two, I'm the reason why you exist. And number three,
- 39:45S9: I'm the one who kept you from killing yourself last night.
- 39:47S9: Which meant that God knew who I was, who I was.
- 39:50S9: He was involved in my story and he cared enough
- 39:53S9: to actually intervene. And so, in tears, I ran into
- 39:56S9: the room and I still didn't know which God I
- 39:57S9: was praying to. But I said, Dear God, if you
- 39:59S9: can take my life and make anything out of it
- 40:01S9: from this day forward, I'm living for you. So that
- 40:04S9: was the beginning of my walk with the Lord. And, uh,
- 40:07S9: it's a, it's a testimony that wows a lot of people.
- 40:10S9: It's not the one that I wish that I had.
- 40:11S9: It's not the one I wished for my kids to have,
- 40:14S9: but it's the one that I got. Yeah.
- 40:17S2: Our York Moore, our guest right now, uh, he is
- 40:20S2: president and CEO of National evangelist for the coalition for
- 40:23S2: Christian Outreach, uh, formerly served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. He's
- 40:26S2: got a powerful TikTok ministry. You're a lot of what
- 40:31S2: I just read deals with young people. You have a
- 40:34S2: heart and a passion for young people. And after hearing
- 40:37S2: your story, it's pretty easy to understand why. Unless I'm
- 40:40S2: drawing too many conclusions too quickly. It was a lot
- 40:43S2: of your passion born out of what you went through.
- 40:46S9: Yeah, absolutely. I have a passion for this generation. In
- 40:50S9: the past several generations, I've been on the. I went
- 40:52S9: to college in 1987 and I never left. I've been
- 40:54S9: on the college campuses now for, you know, 30 something years.
- 40:58S9: And I love I love this generation. Gen Z is
- 41:01S9: on our college campuses and we're getting ready for Gen
- 41:04S9: Alpha and they're coming. But here's the interesting thing, you know,
- 41:08S9: I've been an evangelist now for 30 years and I've
- 41:11S9: never seen an evangelistic opportunity like we're seeing in America
- 41:14S9: right now all across the United States, we're seeing people
- 41:17S9: come to Jesus in ways that are extraordinary at levels
- 41:21S9: we've never seen before. In 2017, I co-founded the Every
- 41:24S9: Campus Coalition, which has 120 organizations. Every single collegiate ministry
- 41:29S9: in America is on the platform, and we're seeking God
- 41:33S9: for revival on our college campuses. And we believe that
- 41:36S9: we're beginning to see that. And we're seeing we're seeing
- 41:39S9: students baptized in the back of pickup trucks. We're seeing
- 41:42S9: athletes baptized in the in the water tanks, in their
- 41:46S9: locker rooms. coaches, Bible studies that would typically have 50
- 41:50S9: students have 500 students. Even in our ministry, the coalition
- 41:53S9: for Christian Outreach put our our missionaries on staff at
- 41:56S9: local churches, and we disciple students in the context of
- 41:59S9: the local church. We've seen a rash of students coming
- 42:03S9: into Bible studies, coming into churches, requesting to be baptized,
- 42:07S9: and they're showing up saying things like, I don't know
- 42:10S9: exactly why I'm here. I just got out of bed
- 42:12S9: and found myself here. Can you tell me about Jesus? Like,
- 42:16S9: you can't make this stuff up? What we're seeing is extraordinary.
- 42:20S9: But at the foundational level, there is a heart search
- 42:23S9: that's going on, and we see it in many different ways.
- 42:26S9: And what we're saying is we need to be active
- 42:29S9: and present and available for this move of God that
- 42:31S9: we're seeing.
- 42:32S2: Our York Moore, our guest right now coming up, let's
- 42:34S2: talk a little bit more about that search that many
- 42:37S2: young people are on and what he's seeing and how
- 42:41S2: we can be praying for this next generation. More coming
- 42:44S2: up here with our York. More here on Carl and Crew.