Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 3: Ed Roberson

Transcript

My Favorite Things Episode 3: Ed Roberson · My Favorite Things

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Ed Robertson, thanks for being here.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, sir.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are?
0:07
SPEAKER_01: I'll try.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: It's very weird, as you know, but I guess that's why it's interesting.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my name's Ed Robertson.
0:13
Anybody who's listening to this probably knows me from my
0:16
podcast called Mountain
0:17
SPEAKER_01: and Prairie,
0:17
SPEAKER_01: which I started almost 10 years ago,
0:19
SPEAKER_01: which is crazy.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: That is now my full-time job, which is crazy as well.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Everything, all of it's crazy.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: But I say if things had gone according to plan A,
0:30
SPEAKER_01: I would be the best stockbroker at Merrill Lynch.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: But I ended up, didn't really like it.
0:36
I ended up doing a lot of prank phone calls from those fancy
0:38
phones they have in the office.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: So I decided probably good to move on.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: And then I went into the real estate business.
0:46
And I thought I would be a titan of real estate and
0:48
particularly real estate development.
0:51
And I spent probably almost 20 years in real estate and finance
0:57
and all that kind of stuff.
0:58
But as I was doing that in 2016,
1:02
I started this podcast just kind of as a creative project.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: I think of it as like somebody who goes to the store,
1:07
SPEAKER_01: they're like,
1:08
SPEAKER_01: I want to learn how to play guitar.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: How do you do that?
1:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll go buy one and then you start playing it.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: And I just thought of the same thing with a podcast.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: There was no expectation there.
1:15
of making any money or of making it a job it was just i knew a
1:19
bunch of interesting
1:19
people and i listened to a lot of podcasts and i thought i bet
1:23
i could do that i
1:24
would want to listen to that um if there was a version of this
1:27
and so i just
1:27
started doing it and uh slowly slowly slowly slowly it picked
1:32
up and you know
1:33
started creating some income and then i was able to go all in
1:35
on that but as
1:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a husband.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: I got two little girls.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: They're 10 and seven.
1:41
I just took my seven year old on her first big hike yesterday
1:44
up a legit mountain
1:45
SPEAKER_01: here in Colorado Springs,
1:46
SPEAKER_01: which was awesome.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Very proud of her for that.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: I've done, I kind of a dabbler in a lot of stuff.
1:53
I mean,
1:53
I get very,
1:54
very obsessed with things and I go pretty hard in them.
1:57
I'm not particularly good at any of it,
1:58
but I've done,
1:59
I'm an ultra runner.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: I've done
2:01
SPEAKER_01: a bunch of 50 milers and a few hundred milers.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Um,
2:05
SPEAKER_01: I've done a lot of different mountain climbing,
2:07
SPEAKER_01: um,
2:07
SPEAKER_01: like big mountains,
2:08
SPEAKER_01: uh,
2:08
SPEAKER_01: like climb Denali and Aconcagua and,
2:11
SPEAKER_01: um,
2:11
SPEAKER_01: my current obsession,
2:13
SPEAKER_01: which I think I have a spot on my face right now from this morning,
2:16
SPEAKER_01: is jiu-jitsu,
2:17
SPEAKER_01: Brazilian jiu-jitsu,
2:18
where I'm not really doing jiu-jitsu as much as I'm letting
2:20
people who know how to
2:21
SPEAKER_01: do jiu-jitsu do it on me,
2:23
SPEAKER_01: and I'm just getting beat to a pulp at 6 a.m.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: three days a week.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
2:30
I'm really a fan of this idea that we'll talk about of the
2:34
strenuous life of kind
2:35
SPEAKER_01: of focusing and giving everything your all,
2:38
SPEAKER_01: no matter what you're doing.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: And I've found that it makes life more fun, and then it...
2:42
makes uh makes me more steady as a human when i'm kind of
2:45
single-minded on things
2:46
so i appreciate you having me man i'm glad you're glad you're
2:50
doing this podcast
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm psyched you were down to do it.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: So as you know, this podcast is called My Favorite Things.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: We're going to go through a list of five of your favorite things.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for only sending five, by the way.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: It was hard to only send five.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: It is, huh?
3:08
Let's start with number one,
3:10
which is liner notes from Jimmy Buffett's 1990s albums.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: So when I hear Jimmy,
3:18
SPEAKER_01: like I used to when I think of Jimmy Buffett,
3:20
SPEAKER_01: sometimes I love I love Jimmy Buffett.
3:22
But I think there's there's kind of two different versions of
3:24
him in popular culture.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: There's the Margaritaville.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Let's go to a concert and get real drunk and swing parrot, you know.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: blow up parrots all over the place and act crazy.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: That's not what I'm interested in.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So you've been.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: I've been to one, and that was enough.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: That's not what I'm interested in.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: But when I was in seventh grade,
3:47
SPEAKER_01: my dad took me on this sailing trip down in the Bahamas,
3:50
SPEAKER_01: which was really cool.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: It was through some museum.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm from North Carolina originally.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: I was from a museum in Charlotte, North Carolina.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I had some deal where you get on a charter boat,
4:00
SPEAKER_01: it was maybe like 45 feet or something,
4:02
SPEAKER_01: and you sail around the Bahamas and you learn about stuff.
4:05
And so we kind of jammed on this little little tiny boat with
4:09
or relatively small
4:10
SPEAKER_01: boat with a relatively large amount of people that we didn't really know.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: And I'd never been to the Caribbean.
4:16
I know that was the first time I'd ever been out of the country
4:18
as much as you can
4:19
SPEAKER_01: consider the Bahamas outside the country.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: But it was this real it was a real adventure for me at that age.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: And like we sailed all nightly.
4:27
We flew into Bimini and then sailed all night the first night
4:30
from Bimini to this
4:31
SPEAKER_01: place called the Berry Islands.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And we had to do shifts and stay up all night.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: And it was just this real adventure.
4:37
And it was very it was kind of scary at times and kind of
4:40
uncomfortable,
4:41
but it was.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: It was the first time I'd ever been doing something like that.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: And the dude who was the captain,
4:48
SPEAKER_01: like the captain of the boat that they had chartered,
4:50
SPEAKER_01: he was kind of what you would stereotypical,
4:54
SPEAKER_01: sorry to be mean,
4:54
but kind of like a burnout type dude that lived down there in
4:57
the Bahamas sailing
4:57
SPEAKER_01: these boats around.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: And the entire time they were playing Jimmy Buffett.
5:02
And it was kind of the classic,
5:04
the stuff you'd hear at one of those concerts.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Just kind of the background of this whole
5:08
adventure that we had and so when i got i remember that song
5:12
why don't we get drunk
5:13
and screw came on and my dad was like very very concerned and
5:21
and and so anyway got
5:22
home from that i i think i bought the the greatest hits and i'd
5:25
listen to it and
5:26
SPEAKER_01: then
5:27
SPEAKER_01: A few years later, I ended up going off to boarding school.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: And that was another one of these really unpleasant,
5:32
SPEAKER_01: not unpleasant,
5:33
SPEAKER_01: but uncomfortable situations that ended up being good.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: But I was away from home.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: I was 15 years old, away from home.
5:41
And it was a great experience,
5:43
but it was definitely a bit nerve-wracking.
5:45
And my roommate at boarding school was from Florida,
5:48
and he loved Jimmy Buffett.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: And so he was playing Jimmy Buffett the whole time.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: And so throughout all these kind of uncomfortable situations,
5:56
SPEAKER_01: but formative experiences.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Jimmy Buffett was playing in the background,
5:59
SPEAKER_01: so I got really obsessed with him,
6:00
SPEAKER_01: and I went pretty deep in all of his CDs,
6:05
SPEAKER_01: and I guess at that point it was tapes,
6:08
SPEAKER_01: and I was just kind of intrigued with him as a person.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: I was like, how...
6:12
who is this guy and how did he build this life and how did you
6:14
know when you listen
6:15
to songs they're they're not the cheeseball songs but the good
6:18
ones they're very
6:19
like poetic and they're they talk a lot about adventure and
6:21
travel and i was just
6:23
really as i've become with the podcast i was more interested in
6:27
him than i was in
6:29
in the actual music just kind of how did this guy build this
6:31
life but back then
6:32
there was you know the internet had just started there was no
6:35
real internet
6:36
SPEAKER_01: And so you couldn't really learn anything about him.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: It's just kind of this mysterious guy.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: And next thing you know, a new album would come out and go get it.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: So like in the mid in the late 90s,
6:45
I would go and get the new albums and they come out and read
6:47
the liner notes on the
6:48
SPEAKER_01: inside.
6:49
And I noticed that he was always talking about literature and
6:53
writers and novelists.
6:56
And I know there's this particular one called Barometer Soup
7:00
was the album.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: And there's another one called Banana Wind.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: But in the liner notes, he mentioned specific books.
7:05
Like he mentioned one called Don't Stop the Carnival by this
7:07
guy named Herman Wolk,
7:08
SPEAKER_01: I think,
7:09
SPEAKER_01: W-O-U-K.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: And he mentioned one called Following the Equator by Mark Twain.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: And he talked about a guy named Carl Hyasson, who's a novelist.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I went to the Walden books with the liner notes.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I want to order these books.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Boom, boom, boom.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: And I think, and then I started reading them.
7:27
And then that gave me a better understanding of kind of who
7:29
Jimmy Buffett was as a
7:30
SPEAKER_01: person and these influences he had.
7:33
And it really started like when I look back,
7:35
that's a lot of what I do now.
7:37
You know,
7:37
on the podcast,
7:38
I talk with people about what books do you like?
7:40
SPEAKER_01: Why do you like them?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: How would they influence you?
7:43
SPEAKER_01: And I hadn't really thought about that until we were planning this thing.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: And I was like,
7:47
SPEAKER_01: that was really the beginning of that,
7:49
SPEAKER_01: of,
7:49
of you understanding that books can really be a window into how
7:55
people became who
7:56
SPEAKER_01: they are.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
7:59
And again,
8:00
now with the internet,
8:01
it's 10 times easier to figure that out.
8:02
And everybody's being interviewed on these things and talking
8:04
about their books,
8:05
SPEAKER_01: their influences.
8:06
But I started that,
8:07
I mean,
8:07
it would have been 1996,
8:08
I think,
8:09
or 1995 when I started doing that.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: And I've just continued that.
8:13
And I think a big part of what anybody on the internet would
8:17
know me for is my book
8:18
SPEAKER_01: recommendations.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: I've been sending those out for over 10 years now.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: And so books have just become a big part of my life.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: And one other thing on that was I think those books,
8:27
SPEAKER_01: when I read those,
8:28
those were the first time I really read books that was
8:30
following my own curiosity
8:31
SPEAKER_01: and not being assigned at school.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I was trying to learn.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just for fun.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: I was trying to learn something.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: And I found that that just kind of started this process.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: And I've done it.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, I do it with basically anybody I'm interested in.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: I want to know what books they read.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: And then I read them.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: I say this, and I'm not exaggerating.
8:52
Outside of marrying my wife and the family I was lucky enough
8:57
to be born into,
8:57
I think reading and reading books with intention of trying to
9:01
learn about people,
9:03
SPEAKER_01: that's been the most formative and important thing I've ever done.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: It's allowed me to evolve as a human and evolve spiritually.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: in every way, you know, politically, socially, everything.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: And I really do credit it.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, other than my wife, I credit books with, with helping me to do that.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: If that makes any sense.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: This is a,
9:23
SPEAKER_00: we,
9:23
you and I have spent some time together and we have never
9:25
talked about this before,
9:26
SPEAKER_00: which I love this,
9:28
SPEAKER_00: this interview is making this happen.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:31
Do you know if anybody's ever compiled a list of all the books
9:37
mentioned in Jimmy
9:38
SPEAKER_00: Buffett album liner notes?
9:40
It's funny because when I was getting ready for this,
9:42
I'd never really thought about it.
9:44
And I started looking around because I couldn't figure out
9:46
exactly what albums it was.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, am I remembering this correctly?
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes it all gets mixed up.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: That was almost 30 years ago now.
9:54
And on Reddit,
9:55
of course,
9:56
which I love,
9:56
the more I see Reddit,
9:58
the more I love it.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: There are,
9:59
SPEAKER_01: there are lists of like everything that he has,
10:03
SPEAKER_01: he has,
10:03
SPEAKER_01: um,
10:04
SPEAKER_01: mentioned or referenced all the authors.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And,
10:07
SPEAKER_01: um,
10:08
SPEAKER_01: and then weirdly I typed it into the chat GBT just to see,
10:12
SPEAKER_01: and it,
10:13
SPEAKER_01: it pulled up a bunch of stuff and was really,
10:14
SPEAKER_01: really,
10:15
SPEAKER_01: really sure of itself,
10:16
SPEAKER_01: you know,
10:16
SPEAKER_01: like this is,
10:17
SPEAKER_01: but I don't think it was all correct.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: I think it was about 80% correct as is the case with all that stuff.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: So, um,
10:24
SPEAKER_01: There is something there, though.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really cool.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: And you could probably do it with any artist who is known to read a lot.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: But Buffett wrote a bunch.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: He wrote some novels.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: He wrote some memoirs.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: And he's always referencing these authors.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, it's pretty cool.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: I would never consider myself a Jimmy Buffett fan,
10:44
SPEAKER_00: but my son will tolerate three,
10:46
SPEAKER_00: well,
10:47
SPEAKER_00: two songs,
10:49
SPEAKER_00: those lullabies,
10:50
SPEAKER_00: and one of them is A Pirate Looks at 40.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: But it's the Jack Johnson cover, which omits the last verse.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: It's that and Folsom Prison Blues, and that's it.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: That's all he'll listen to.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: All right.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: So number two, the rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: How, when are you, when do you encounter this in your life as a book?
11:15
Yeah,
11:15
this is probably the most important I would say of everything
11:19
of,
11:19
of kind of moments.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: If you had to pick a moment and,
11:22
SPEAKER_01: and at the time I thought it was important,
11:25
SPEAKER_01: but looking back,
11:25
SPEAKER_01: it's become clear that it was very important.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: So kind of crazy story, but I had,
11:31
SPEAKER_01: I just graduated from business school.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: So I mentioned I was in the real estate business.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be a real estate developer.
11:37
And I was so focused on that was all I wanted to do was be a
11:40
real estate developer.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: I went, I was like, how do you do that?
11:42
SPEAKER_01: All right, you go to a business school, you get your MBA.
11:45
So I was lucky enough to get like a full ride to business
11:48
school,
11:48
which is crazy.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: I was like, did my transcripts get mixed up?
11:51
Because I don't think you guys saw my grades from undergrad,
11:53
but they ended up.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Paying for me to go, I went.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: And during grad school,
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I had this pretty bad health scare or bad for me,
12:00
SPEAKER_01: at least,
12:02
SPEAKER_01: where it really kind of shook me up.
12:05
It was between my first and second year of business school when
12:07
I was interning at
12:08
SPEAKER_01: a publicly traded real estate development company.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Had this real, you know, scary deal.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like having a midlife crisis at age 30.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Finished business school.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: I got married right after business school and the economy was crashed.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: So this was 2009 when the whole real estate market crashed.
12:27
And my wife had always worked in international development work
12:31
and she had always
12:32
SPEAKER_01: thought,
12:32
SPEAKER_01: well,
12:33
SPEAKER_01: I want to live and work internationally.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: But then when we met, like that probably won't work with my career.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: But then when the economy was in the garbage,
12:39
SPEAKER_01: we were like,
12:39
SPEAKER_01: all right,
12:40
let's we can do it because it's not like I'm missing out on
12:42
anything here.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't have any debt from business school.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's go to Costa Rica.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: So for her job.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And we went down there.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: But looking back,
12:50
SPEAKER_01: I was kind of lost because I'd had this idea I wanted to be a real estate
12:53
SPEAKER_01: developer,
12:54
SPEAKER_01: but I'd seen the damage as the economy crashed.
12:58
I'd seen the damage that a lot of these developers had done to
13:01
a lot of the
13:01
landscapes out west that I love so much because I'd been living
13:04
in Jackson Hole,
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Wyoming.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: And I just, I was...
13:08
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: It was kind of a dark time looking back.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: When you look at it on the surface, I was living in Costa Rica.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I was getting there to surf every day.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: It was really this,
13:21
SPEAKER_01: on the surface,
13:22
SPEAKER_01: it seemed like the dream,
13:22
SPEAKER_01: like somebody would retire and go and do that.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: But I found myself kind of drifting a bit.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: And so I read,
13:28
I picked up this book when I was there called The Rise of
13:29
Theodore Roosevelt,
13:30
SPEAKER_01: and it's the first in a trilogy about Theodore Roosevelt's life.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: And up until that point,
13:35
SPEAKER_01: I'd always kind of thought Theodore Roosevelt,
13:37
SPEAKER_01: he was kind of a blowhard,
13:38
SPEAKER_01: loudmouth,
13:39
SPEAKER_01: wannabe,
13:40
SPEAKER_01: manly man who,
13:43
SPEAKER_01: you know,
13:43
SPEAKER_01: mixed legacy as all people from that time have.
13:47
But what really struck me about that book was this idea of the
13:49
strenuous life and
13:50
SPEAKER_01: it was his operating system.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: And he would, his whole deal was I want to go as hard as I can.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: When I'm doing something, I'm doing it 100%.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: And that could be
14:01
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:01
SPEAKER_01: during his cowboy phase,
14:02
SPEAKER_01: riding horses,
14:03
SPEAKER_01: or it could have been when he was a soldier and he was all in on that.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: But then other things that I could relate to more,
14:10
SPEAKER_01: like he read a lot and he would read a book a day,
14:13
SPEAKER_01: even when he was president.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: And,
14:16
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:16
SPEAKER_01: I think people would listen to that and they'd say,
14:17
SPEAKER_01: well,
14:17
SPEAKER_01: it sounds like he's manic.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: But he was not.
14:20
And there are these interviews I've seen with Evan Morris where
14:22
they describe him
14:23
SPEAKER_01: and they're like,
14:24
SPEAKER_01: He was actually very, very, very calm.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: He was very calm,
14:27
SPEAKER_01: but he was just extremely focused,
14:29
SPEAKER_01: and he did things at a much faster pace than most people.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: So I just saw that, and I was like, well, that's interesting.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: I wonder what would happen if I started living my life that way.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: And so I was in Costa Rica.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: I kind of had unlimited time.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: Um,
14:41
SPEAKER_01: but I just started applying these,
14:42
SPEAKER_01: these,
14:43
SPEAKER_01: this idea of I'm going to go hard at whatever I'm doing.
14:46
I was T I was doing a lot of tutoring,
14:48
teaching kids how to speak Spanish,
14:49
speak English.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: They were really teaching me how to speak Spanish.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: But,
14:52
SPEAKER_01: um,
14:54
SPEAKER_01: and I was,
14:54
SPEAKER_01: you know,
14:54
SPEAKER_01: surfing,
14:55
SPEAKER_01: we were traveling,
14:56
I was trying to do some writing and I just started developing
14:59
this idea of full
15:00
SPEAKER_01: focus in everything.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: And, and it
15:05
SPEAKER_01: not only did I start accomplishing things and start getting things done,
15:08
SPEAKER_01: but I just felt better.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, it gave me some traction, even stuff that was boring.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Like years later when I lived in Boulder,
15:14
I remember one day I was feeling kind of down or depressed and
15:17
not really getting
15:18
SPEAKER_01: anything done.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: And I looked out the back and I realized my dog had been out there and,
15:23
SPEAKER_01: um,
15:24
SPEAKER_01: and I hadn't cleaned up the dog crap in a long time.
15:27
And I was,
15:27
and,
15:28
and so I just went out there and cleaned it up and I felt so
15:31
much better.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: after cleaning up the dog wrap.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: And I was like,
15:35
SPEAKER_01: that's interesting that being,
15:37
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:37
elbow deep in dog shit is more preferable to sitting around
15:42
doing nothing and being
15:43
SPEAKER_01: stuck in my thoughts and ruminating about things.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: And so it's just been this kind of,
15:48
this kind of evolution that has really guided my life ever
15:51
since I was 31 of go all
15:54
SPEAKER_01: in on things and push myself.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: And, um,
15:58
SPEAKER_01: it's allowed me to,
15:59
SPEAKER_01: I really do credit that with it,
16:00
SPEAKER_01: with the way I've been able to build my career up and have this kind of,
16:04
SPEAKER_01: this kind of,
16:04
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:06
SPEAKER_01: unexpected career doing stuff that I really love.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the other thing which you can appreciate is
16:12
SPEAKER_01: About two months after reading that,
16:14
I quit drinking because I realized that you can't live a
16:19
strenuous life if you're
16:19
SPEAKER_01: hungover and if you're depressed from being hungover.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: And so I cut drinking.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Just one day I woke up and I didn't go surfing because I was hungover.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: And by lunchtime, I just got furious.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is unbelievable, man.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm living down here.
16:38
I can surf at one of the best surf places in Central America
16:40
and I'm not going
16:41
because I've hung over because I went out and drank some beers
16:43
with some guys I
16:43
SPEAKER_01: don't even like.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm done.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm done.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: And so I cut out the drinking,
16:50
SPEAKER_01: just one day stopped and not a big,
16:52
SPEAKER_01: thankfully it wasn't hard for me at all.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: It was just made a decision, did it.
16:56
and uh and so that i think that has also helped because i think
16:59
the the booze and
17:01
the hangovers is um it's like tying a anchor around your neck
17:06
when you're trying to
17:06
swim it just doesn't help and so i think that was a big part as
17:10
well yeah yeah it's
17:13
a it's a kind of a time suck at a certain point um did you then
17:18
read did you read
17:19
SPEAKER_00: the other two books in the trilogy
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I didn't like I mean, I liked them.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: They're great.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: But I often say that Theodore Roosevelt,
17:25
SPEAKER_01: like the least interesting thing he did was be president,
17:28
SPEAKER_01: at least in my mind.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't I'm not I don't really care about all this.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, did a lot of cool stuff for conservation.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: But and then the third volume is after he was president.
17:35
And there were parts of that that were somewhat somewhat sad,
17:39
like his his son got killed.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: He was a real he wanted to be a tough guy so much.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: And he was really focused.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: He loved war.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: He was obsessed with war.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: And then his son got killed in World War I, and that kind of broke him.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: And then he died soon after that.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: But he died at age 60, and he just went.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: And he was,
17:58
SPEAKER_01: you know,
17:58
SPEAKER_01: when he was born,
17:59
SPEAKER_01: he was very sickly and had asthma and was just a really sickly kid.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: And they told him, you know, you shouldn't do anything.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: You need to take it easy.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: You need to relax.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Sit around, write books all day, do whatever, but don't push yourself.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, actually, I'm going to do the opposite of that.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to push myself as hard as possible.
18:14
and so um i really just have found i don't do it on his level
18:19
obviously but if i'm
18:20
ever not feeling great um i think it's interesting because when
18:26
i was in costa rica
18:27
it was like there was unlimited um options of what i could do
18:31
because i i just
18:32
didn't have i really didn't have any responsibilities you know
18:35
and so it was like
18:36
SPEAKER_01: forcing myself to find traction when when
18:39
anything could be an option and now it's kind of different
18:41
because with family with
18:42
work with all the distractions the internet it's that it's
18:46
different you got to
18:47
figure out in the midst of all this stuff you could be doing
18:49
what can you focus on
18:50
and what can i focus on and what can i go hard at and um and so
18:55
it's it kind of
18:55
works on both in the ends of the spectrum at least for me and
18:58
ultimately for me
18:59
SPEAKER_01: it's really about keeping my brain straight because if i don't
19:03
If I don't,
19:04
I think of myself as driving an old truck and it pulls to the
19:09
right.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: And if you take your hands off the wheel, you're going in the ditch.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: I think about that with my personality.
19:14
If I don't pay attention and do what I need to do,
19:17
I'm going to go in the ditch.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: And the ditch equals melancholy.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: And the good news for me is I can control it.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: You know,
19:25
it's up to me to control it versus a lot of people who may have
19:29
chemical imbalances
19:30
SPEAKER_01: and it's not that easy.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like some people just can't stop drinking.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: I could.
19:35
And with with my personality in this kind of temptation or kind
19:41
of always pulling
19:43
SPEAKER_01: towards melancholy.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: I can control that.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's very empowering, and it makes me feel much better about things.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: And now that my wife and children,
19:53
SPEAKER_01: they benefit from it because they're the ones that have to deal with me.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
20:02
It's like you need to be doing the spiritual dog shit removal
20:07
when in doubt,
20:09
basically,
20:09
right?
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just anything.
20:11
And sometimes I'll procrastinate on things or I'll be dreading
20:14
something,
20:15
doing something.
20:15
But the minute I start doing it,
20:17
not the minute,
20:18
but maybe five minutes in,
20:20
I feel great.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Even if it's something I don't want to do when I'm focused on.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: And I found that with writing as well.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: We were talking about writing before we started recording.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: And that's very hard for me.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: And there's almost like a sense of dread about starting it.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: But once I get started and once I'm going, it's awesome.
20:38
um i don't know what the problem is like i wish i could just
20:40
stop with the dread
20:41
like i even do that with jiu-jitsu like this morning i did not
20:44
want to go i did not
20:45
want to go i did not want to go and and then when i got there
20:49
within five minutes
20:50
i'm like god this is so awesome i love it so much i love these
20:53
guys this is so much
20:54
fun so i need to i need to figure out how to sidestep i haven't
21:00
figured that out
21:01
SPEAKER_01: yet how to sidestep some of the
21:03
SPEAKER_01: the kind of knee jerk, um, kind of dreading stuff.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh,
21:08
SPEAKER_01: but,
21:08
SPEAKER_01: but I have figured out how to deal with it and so I can get it done,
21:12
SPEAKER_01: which is,
21:12
SPEAKER_01: which is good and empowering.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:16
No,
21:16
like the Seth Godin has that saying,
21:18
you know,
21:18
like plumbers don't get plumbers block.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Why do writers get writers block?
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: I just can't.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: I just can't.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: I can't plum anymore.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: Number three, the Gulf Stream, which is a Winslow Homer painting.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh,
21:35
SPEAKER_00: this one,
21:36
SPEAKER_00: I got,
21:36
SPEAKER_00: honestly,
21:37
SPEAKER_00: I was like not expecting you to bust out a painting in this list,
21:40
SPEAKER_00: but dude,
21:41
SPEAKER_00: please tell us.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: I have that painting and it fits in with the strenuous life stuff.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: And with all that,
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I was just saying,
21:47
SPEAKER_01: but it,
21:47
SPEAKER_01: for people that aren't familiar,
21:49
SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen it.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: It's, it's a pretty famous picture and a painting.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: And it's this guy who's on a boat,
21:54
SPEAKER_01: he's on a sailboat in a really rough ocean in the middle of a storm.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: The mast is broken and,
22:01
There are these sharks that are coming up and hitting the side
22:03
of the boat.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: And the guy just looks defeated.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he just looked like he I've stared at so much.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: I have a picture of it.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: I have a big print of it in my shed.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: I have it as the screensaver on my computer.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: I have it on my phone.
22:16
Pretty much there's nowhere I can look where I'm not seeing
22:18
that photo or a photo of the print.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: I have it everywhere.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: And so this guy is just dejected.
22:26
He's just he's sitting there and there's a there's a water
22:29
spout in the background.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: There are these flying fish jumping real mess.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: But if you look really far back on the far left hand corner,
22:37
there is a what looks like like a three masted ship that is
22:41
sailing in the storm
22:42
SPEAKER_01: and is making its way.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: And so there's this question like, are they going to see the guy?
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Are they going to come help him?
22:48
SPEAKER_01: How's this all going to play out?
22:49
SPEAKER_01: But the guy's in a really, really bad, bad shape.
22:53
And I think about that with this idea of the strenuous life and
22:56
the idea of taking
22:57
SPEAKER_01: action and pushing myself.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think of that that painting is the worst case scenario.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: And that is 99 times out of a hundred.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: That's what's going to happen.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: If, if I don't have, if I'm not being intentional about what I'm doing.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: And so like,
23:12
SPEAKER_01: I think about if I were on a boat and there's this,
23:15
SPEAKER_01: cause I used to do a lot of sailing.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: I used to work at this camp that was all like about boats.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: I used to have a U S coast guard license.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I was pretty, pretty into boats for a while.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: And
23:25
SPEAKER_01: The thing is,
23:26
SPEAKER_01: no matter how rough the ocean may be or what the conditions are,
23:31
if you know how to work with the wind and the waves and all
23:36
that kind of stuff,
23:36
you can go out and you can sail and you can make your way
23:39
wherever you're going.
23:40
It might take a little bit longer,
23:42
but you can figure out a way to get where you're going.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: And this guy,
23:46
SPEAKER_01: for whatever reason,
23:48
was just kind of I think about it like maybe he took his he
23:52
took his eyes off the
23:53
off the where he was going for a while or wasn't quite paying
23:56
attention or maybe
23:56
he's below decks and messing around doing something and got hit
24:00
by a wave.
24:01
And so he is in this position where he is completely at the
24:05
mercy of the ocean.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: And there's really at that point, there's nothing he can do.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: And the ocean is going to take him where it's going to take him.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: And so I think about myself when I wake up in the morning,
24:14
SPEAKER_01: thinking about what am I going to do with the day?
24:16
SPEAKER_01: And no matter if it's an easy day,
24:18
SPEAKER_01: wide open,
24:19
SPEAKER_01: I can do whatever I want,
24:20
SPEAKER_01: or if there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done,
24:22
SPEAKER_01: some of it unpleasant,
24:24
SPEAKER_01: it's like charting your course,
24:26
SPEAKER_01: figuring out which way is the wind blowing,
24:28
SPEAKER_01: and then working with that to go.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how much time you spend on boats,
24:33
SPEAKER_01: but if you're in a little sailboat,
24:36
SPEAKER_01: like a sunfish or something,
24:37
SPEAKER_01: and you're cruising along,
24:39
SPEAKER_01: If you know where you're going,
24:41
SPEAKER_01: the wind's blowing and you're working with the wind,
24:43
SPEAKER_01: these little waves will come and they'll hit you,
24:45
SPEAKER_01: but it's no big deal because you're just sailing along,
24:47
SPEAKER_01: you're sailing along.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: But if you're not going anywhere,
24:52
SPEAKER_01: you're just sitting there and the sail's flapping,
24:54
SPEAKER_01: the littlest tiny wave can capsize the boat.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I often think about,
24:59
SPEAKER_01: you know,
24:59
SPEAKER_01: this idea of moving forward and having with with intention,
25:03
SPEAKER_01: you know,
25:03
SPEAKER_01: trying to go somewhere.
25:04
But it just makes you so much more resilient against all these
25:08
little waves that will hit.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: And whether that's.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: And then I think about it with ultra running.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: On the day when I'm running,
25:16
SPEAKER_01: say,
25:16
SPEAKER_01: a 50-mile race or whatever,
25:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm so focused on what I'm going to do.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: And say,
25:21
SPEAKER_01: in the middle of the race,
25:21
SPEAKER_01: if I saw somebody sent me a really mean email about saying,
25:25
I hate your podcast and you're a crazy right-wing maniac or
25:28
you're a crazy
25:29
SPEAKER_01: left-wing maniac,
25:30
SPEAKER_01: it wouldn't even register because I'm so focused on where I'm going.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, that's cool, whatever.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: They're idiots.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: Let me keep going.
25:36
Whereas if I was just sitting around with nothing really going
25:38
on,
25:38
that could wreck me.
25:39
You know,
25:39
it would wreck me and make me feel like,
25:41
oh,
25:41
maybe these people don't like me.
25:43
And so I've just found it just goes back to this idea of if
25:46
you're moving towards
25:47
SPEAKER_01: something,
25:48
SPEAKER_01: if you're taking action,
25:49
SPEAKER_01: pushing,
25:51
it just makes the ups and downs of life much more manageable
25:56
versus just sitting
25:57
SPEAKER_01: there.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: without a plan kind of getting pushed around by the ocean or by the,
26:01
SPEAKER_01: by the,
26:02
SPEAKER_01: the waves or whatever,
26:03
SPEAKER_01: all this stuff that's outside of your control.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: Does that make any sense?
26:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:08
I'm imagining like the,
26:10
the vehicles in Mad Max Fury Road and people just bouncing off
26:13
of them.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: Cause you're so, yeah.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember the first time you saw that painting?
26:21
Do you have like a memory of seeing it like in a book or a
26:23
museum or,
26:24
or anything like that?
26:25
SPEAKER_00: Or is it just like,
26:26
It's one of those things that I'm sure it's everywhere because
26:30
it's so famous.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think when we were getting ready for this,
26:33
SPEAKER_01: there's even a reference to it in the Goodwill Hunting movie.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: They talk about it.
26:38
But I think it wasn't until I was in Colorado working and
26:44
trying to get my business
26:45
SPEAKER_01: going that it really hit me.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: the significance of it and that I can look at it.
26:52
And I was actually talking to this woman who sometimes helps
26:56
me,
26:56
uh,
26:56
keep my brain straight.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: And I was telling her about it.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: She's like, that's awful.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Why do you have that on the wall?
27:01
Well,
27:01
you shouldn't,
27:02
but,
27:02
but I think it is,
27:03
it is kind of this,
27:05
uh,
27:05
a stark,
27:06
SPEAKER_01: warning of what can happen without intention.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm not pushing that.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm not the kind of person that's just like, I got to go, go, go, go, go.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: I just kind of annoying,
27:16
hard to be around because you're always pushing so hard and
27:18
can't sit still.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm not like that at all.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: But there is just something about
27:25
The reminder that if I just let the day or the circumstances or
27:30
the Internet or
27:31
SPEAKER_01: whatever dictate where my,
27:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:33
how I'm going to be thinking or what I'm going to be thinking
27:35
about or what I'm
27:36
SPEAKER_01: going to be doing,
27:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: even my,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: just my brain,
27:40
SPEAKER_01: if I start looking at the news first thing in the morning,
27:42
SPEAKER_01: all of a sudden.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: my brain is at the mercy of all this junk that,
27:46
SPEAKER_01: that poured into it early versus either not looking at it or,
27:50
SPEAKER_01: or reading a book,
27:52
SPEAKER_01: um,
27:52
SPEAKER_01: being,
27:52
SPEAKER_01: being very intentional about what I'm allowing in my brain.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: But then also,
27:55
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:56
SPEAKER_01: with just the,
27:57
SPEAKER_01: the nonsense of that,
27:58
SPEAKER_01: everybody has to deal with the work emails and all this kind of stuff.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Like I can't let other people's emails dictate my,
28:04
or I can't let 99% of other people's emails dictate what I'm
28:07
going to be doing with
28:08
SPEAKER_01: my day.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: I got to have my own plan.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's been very, it's very helpful.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a scary,
28:14
I would imagine if somebody was like a terrible drug addict or
28:17
alcoholic or
28:18
SPEAKER_01: something,
28:18
and they could have a picture of themselves when they were at
28:20
their low point and
28:21
SPEAKER_01: look at that and like,
28:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go back there.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: And that's how I am.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: When I look at this thing, I'm like, that could be me.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: If I just,
28:27
SPEAKER_01: if I don't,
28:28
SPEAKER_01: if I'm not intentional about what I'm,
28:30
SPEAKER_01: how I'm living my life that,
28:31
SPEAKER_01: you know,
28:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be at the mercy of this thing.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:36
And I think about maybe I just need a photo of myself looking
28:38
at my phone.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: I think that would be very powerful.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
28:43
SPEAKER_01: I think that would be very,
28:44
SPEAKER_01: and,
28:45
SPEAKER_01: and,
28:45
SPEAKER_01: and your kid and top of that,
28:46
SPEAKER_01: your kid looking at you,
28:48
SPEAKER_01: looking at your phone.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:49
Well,
28:49
your kid,
28:50
your kid's doing something cool and you're looking at your
28:52
phone.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that should be my,
28:55
SPEAKER_00: uh,
28:56
SPEAKER_00: my background on my phone is like,
28:58
I just see a photo of myself looking like your kid trying to
29:01
get your attention,
29:02
SPEAKER_01: dad,
29:02
SPEAKER_01: dad.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: And you're just staring at Instagram.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: I think we just nailed the business idea there.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: We're whipping through these.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Number four, Tribe by Sebastian Younger.
29:16
Yeah,
29:16
I would say,
29:17
so this is a book by Sebastian Younger,
29:19
the same guy who wrote Perfect Storm.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: He's just a really interesting guy.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't have a smartphone, by the way.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: He's just got a flip phone.
29:29
But I'm kind of obsessed with that guy as well because he's
29:32
just a really interesting guy.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: But
29:34
SPEAKER_01: The lead up to this is I had, and you can relate to this.
29:38
I had all of these experiences throughout my life where I would
29:44
do intense type
29:45
SPEAKER_01: things with people.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: So for example,
29:48
SPEAKER_01: like when I,
29:49
SPEAKER_01: when I went up Denali,
29:51
SPEAKER_01: it's like a three,
29:52
SPEAKER_01: three and a half week trip.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: And I did it with a guide.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: And so I show up and I don't know any of the guides.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know any of the people on the trip.
30:00
And next thing you know,
30:01
I'm jammed in a tent with two or three guys that I don't know.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: And we spent three weeks trying to get up to the top of this mountain.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: And then I would get home.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: And I would realize,
30:11
SPEAKER_01: I would think about those guys,
30:12
and I would feel like I had more of a connection or they were
30:16
more what I would
30:17
SPEAKER_01: consider real friends than some people that I had known for 20 years.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And I just couldn't understand,
30:25
SPEAKER_01: why is that these people that I had never met,
30:28
SPEAKER_01: and then some of them I probably wouldn't see again.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: I've kept in touch with some of them.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: But I just felt this real deep connection with these people.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: that I would not get in regular life.
30:37
And I did a semester at Knowles during college,
30:40
which was very formative experiences.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: The same thing on that,
30:43
SPEAKER_01: you know,
30:43
SPEAKER_01: whether the instructors,
30:45
SPEAKER_01: the students,
30:45
SPEAKER_01: you just form these really
30:48
SPEAKER_01: what seemed to me to be real and meaningful bonds with people.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: And then I would come back to the real world and I'd,
30:54
SPEAKER_01: you know,
30:54
SPEAKER_01: you're going to work or whatever.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: And it just all seems so surface level.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: And to me, just kind of like, like bullshit.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Like I was kind of looking around like these people,
31:03
SPEAKER_01: like at Merrill Lynch,
31:04
SPEAKER_01: they'd all consider them,
31:06
SPEAKER_01: they'd be like my friends.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't, I don't really consider these people friends.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: Like going to a bar and drinking after work or whatever.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: Like that's, I don't consider that these people even my friends.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: And so it was just this kind of confusion.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: about these intense experiences versus the real world.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: And so anyway,
31:23
SPEAKER_01: I heard Sebastian Younger on a podcast talking about this book,
31:28
SPEAKER_01: and I thought it sounded so interesting,
31:31
SPEAKER_01: so I went and got it.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: And so the whole idea of it is,
31:34
SPEAKER_01: He's talking about the theme is that we as humans need two things.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: We need purpose and we need community.
31:40
And he talks a lot about war veterans and people that are in
31:43
these soldiers that go
31:44
SPEAKER_01: to Afghanistan and they see all this really,
31:47
SPEAKER_01: really terrible stuff.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: Their friends get killed.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: It's just this nightmare of a situation.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: And then they would get home and all they want to do is go back.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: They get home, live in an apartment, get a regular job.
31:59
They're out of the military,
32:01
but they're kind of isolated,
32:02
but they're safe.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: And all they wanted to do was go back to Afghanistan.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: And the question is, well, why is that?
32:09
And then he also talks about a lot of people have PTSD when
32:14
they get out of the
32:14
SPEAKER_01: military,
32:15
but only a very small percentage actually see combat or combat
32:20
veterans and have
32:21
SPEAKER_01: their friends get killed and all that kind of stuff.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: Yet these people get out of the military and they have a hard time
32:27
assimilating back into regular life and so his whole idea is
32:31
that you know in the
32:32
military you have a purpose and you have a community you know
32:36
you have these these
32:37
people that some some of them you might like some of them you
32:39
might not like but is
32:40
this community and you're working towards a goal together and
32:44
he talks a lot about
32:45
native americans and how there are all these instances of um
32:50
you know the white
32:52
SPEAKER_01: people trying to
32:54
get Native Americans to assimilate into European culture and
32:57
they would hate it and
32:58
SPEAKER_01: they'd leave.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: But there are hardly any cases where a white person would,
33:03
SPEAKER_01: whether they're kidnapped or whatever,
33:05
be put into Native American culture and they didn't want to
33:09
leave because the
33:12
culture that the Native Americans had built was more along the
33:16
lines of this
33:17
SPEAKER_01: military group.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: And so it just really,
33:21
SPEAKER_01: really,
33:21
SPEAKER_01: really made me think a lot about this idea of purpose and community.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'm super introverted.
33:27
Uh,
33:27
if left to my own devices,
33:29
I think I could end up,
33:31
you know,
33:32
being completely by myself.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: Like if I didn't have a family,
33:34
SPEAKER_01: I could see a situation where I would just be alone a lot,
33:37
SPEAKER_01: whether,
33:37
SPEAKER_01: and even,
33:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
33:38
SPEAKER_01: doing fun stuff and running and everything,
33:39
SPEAKER_01: but I would just be by myself.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: And
33:42
SPEAKER_01: I thought that's that's what I want, but it's not what I need.
33:44
I need community and I need to be working alongside people
33:49
trying to accomplish things.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: And so like I found that in running,
33:53
SPEAKER_01: you know,
33:54
SPEAKER_01: I used to do when I was really focused on running,
33:56
SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of it by myself,
33:57
but I had two or three really trusted running partners that I
34:00
would go with.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like they're some of my best friends,
34:03
SPEAKER_01: even not so much for time spent together,
34:05
SPEAKER_01: but because we shared that experience.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: And then I found that with jujitsu.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: Again,
34:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm terrible at it,
34:14
but you get together with all these people from the full
34:18
socioeconomic spectrum,
34:19
SPEAKER_01: the full political spectrum,
34:22
and none of it matters because you're just working to learn how
34:27
to do jujitsu
34:27
SPEAKER_01: together.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: It's very hard.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: It's very challenging.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: It's very intimate, for lack of a better word.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: You're rolling all over people, sweating all over them.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: But I've found that a lot of those guys I do jiu-jitsu with,
34:37
I feel closer to them than people that maybe I know in the
34:43
community around here
34:44
SPEAKER_01: and we just get together for dinner or whatever.
34:47
And so that's just been very instructive for me about what I
34:51
need personally,
34:52
SPEAKER_01: selfishly what I need,
34:53
SPEAKER_01: but then thinking about my family and my girls.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: you know, I think it's very important for them to have a community.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: And so,
35:00
SPEAKER_01: you know,
35:01
SPEAKER_01: if we do have to have,
35:02
we will have dinner parties sometimes where parents and their
35:05
kids will come over
35:06
SPEAKER_01: and the kids are playing and they're all very,
35:08
SPEAKER_01: very nice people.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: But again,
35:10
SPEAKER_01: like if,
35:11
SPEAKER_01: if left my own devices,
35:12
SPEAKER_01: I probably wouldn't do it,
35:13
SPEAKER_01: but I,
35:14
SPEAKER_01: I treat that community building as I treat exercise or anything.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just something that I need as a, as a animal.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: I need it to be the best version of myself.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: And, um,
35:25
SPEAKER_01: There aren't many books,
35:27
SPEAKER_01: I think,
35:27
SPEAKER_01: that have fully changed the way I approach something,
35:30
SPEAKER_01: but that is one of this idea of I've got to build community,
35:35
SPEAKER_01: and if there can be purpose involved,
35:36
SPEAKER_01: it's even better.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: How many years ago do you think that was?
35:41
SPEAKER_00: You read that?
35:43
SPEAKER_01: It was probably...
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Ten years ago.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: It was like right when it came out.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: And we talked about this when I saw you last this summer.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: We were talking, you know, this idea that male lonely.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: You hear about the male loneliness, loneliness epidemic.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: And I do think there's something I mean,
36:02
SPEAKER_01: I hope I don't get in trouble for saying it,
36:03
SPEAKER_01: but I do think there's something with men more times than not where.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: And it just helps to be doing something with them,
36:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
36:11
SPEAKER_01: versus just and it may be the same with women.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: I just don't know because I'm not a woman.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: But I think there is something that at least the way my brain operates,
36:20
SPEAKER_01: like I connect with people through doing things,
36:23
not through just kind of sitting around shooting the shit or
36:28
make a small talk.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
36:30
There is research about that,
36:31
like,
36:32
that I know of through this book,
36:35
We Need to Hang Out.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, you told me about that.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: But it's, like, shoulder to shoulder is the saying.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that it's specifically men,
36:45
SPEAKER_00: but,
36:45
SPEAKER_00: like,
36:47
SPEAKER_00: I wonder if people just have a hobby that they're passionate about.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Because everything you say is something that's...
36:53
SPEAKER_00: the community is based around is a passion you have.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, from climbing, running jujitsu, these things.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think, well, what do, what do most of us do?
37:06
Are we just like coming home from work and then doing our
37:09
family stuff or whatever,
37:10
SPEAKER_00: and then maybe watching a couple of shows and like,
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Where,
37:14
SPEAKER_00: where are we finding,
37:16
SPEAKER_00: what are our interests that we're,
37:17
SPEAKER_00: that we're gathering around to meet people with similar interests?
37:20
SPEAKER_00: And, um, some people do do that with running.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Some people do it with bowling,
37:25
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:26
SPEAKER_00: people,
37:26
SPEAKER_00: people do it,
37:27
SPEAKER_00: people do it with model trains,
37:28
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:28
SPEAKER_00: but I always wonder if that's like,
37:30
SPEAKER_00: if we're,
37:31
SPEAKER_00: if you're lonely,
37:32
SPEAKER_00: are you,
37:32
are you getting out there and like trying to share what you
37:35
enjoy with other
37:36
SPEAKER_00: people,
37:37
SPEAKER_00: you know?
37:37
SPEAKER_01: Well,
37:37
SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things about community,
37:39
because I grew up in a really small town in eastern North
37:41
Carolina where it was a
37:42
SPEAKER_01: very,
37:42
SPEAKER_01: very tight knit community.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
37:45
SPEAKER_01: it's one of the if I think about,
37:47
SPEAKER_01: you know,
37:47
SPEAKER_01: just communities I've been involved with or even know of,
37:49
SPEAKER_01: it's really a case study in best case scenario.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: But when you're talking about communities,
37:55
SPEAKER_01: it's not that you like everybody and that everybody's your friend.
37:59
I mean,
37:59
I think there's a lot of benefit in,
38:01
you know,
38:02
like in,
38:02
say,
38:02
that town.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: There's the town asshole.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: This lady or this man's always so mean.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Or the town drunk.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: But being forced,
38:13
because you're in this community and you have to deal with
38:15
people on a face-to-face
38:16
SPEAKER_01: basis daily,
38:17
SPEAKER_01: you become much more tolerant of things that are not like you.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Like,
38:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be best friends with everybody in the community,
38:24
SPEAKER_01: but there is something about
38:27
having people that you may not get along with and figuring out
38:29
how to do that.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Like,
38:30
SPEAKER_01: how do you,
38:31
how do you exist in this community together with a person that
38:35
you may not
38:35
SPEAKER_01: particularly like?
38:36
SPEAKER_01: And like at jujitsu,
38:37
SPEAKER_01: they're all nice guys,
38:38
SPEAKER_01: but there's some of them I like better than the others.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: And some of them,
38:41
SPEAKER_01: there's one or two that I don't want anything to do with,
38:43
SPEAKER_01: but you're,
38:44
SPEAKER_01: you're forced to figure out how do we,
38:46
SPEAKER_01: how do we deal with this?
38:47
SPEAKER_01: How do we, how do we,
38:49
SPEAKER_01: you know, keep this community and stay accountable to each other.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: But even though we're a little bit different and I think because of,
38:57
SPEAKER_01: you can either just completely isolate,
38:58
SPEAKER_01: you don't have to ever deal with anybody or even,
39:01
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:01
SPEAKER_01: with the internet or with the way things have worked now,
39:04
SPEAKER_01: you can kind of,
39:05
SPEAKER_01: you don't,
39:06
SPEAKER_01: you don't really need to depend on anybody.
39:07
You don't,
39:08
you,
39:08
you know,
39:09
you can,
39:10
you can kind of pick who you want to be around.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: If somebody makes you mad, you never talk to them again.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know that that's easy,
39:16
SPEAKER_01: and in some ways it's kind of nice,
39:17
SPEAKER_01: but I don't know that that is what we need as a species,
39:22
SPEAKER_01: if that makes sense.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
39:24
Yeah,
39:26
I think people in small towns sometimes have it figured out how
39:29
to get...
39:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, kind of get along.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: And I think big cities the same way.
39:33
But maybe you're dependent on the people,
39:35
you know,
39:35
you're you're dependent on them.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: And if you need something, they're going to they're going to help.
39:39
And I just think as everybody's gotten more fragmented and it's
39:43
it's a it's a sign
39:44
SPEAKER_01: of of abundance,
39:46
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
39:46
SPEAKER_01: because you don't.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: You don't need help from anybody for anything, really.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Or you think you don't, but you ultimately do.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: And I'm much better off.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: And again, like all this stuff, I have to kind of force myself into it.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: I wish it came naturally.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: It all comes very naturally from my wife.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: I always say all this crazy stuff I do,
40:04
like meditation and everything I'm doing to try to make myself
40:08
a more grounded
40:09
SPEAKER_01: person.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Some people are like, I want to be like the Buddha.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, I want to be like Kim.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: That's a great situation.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's good.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: I always say I know what I get out of this relationship.
40:22
I don't know what she gets out of it,
40:23
but I'm glad she lets me hang around.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: In the Winslow Homer painting, is she the boat then basically?
40:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
40:33
Probably is like just kind of that the boat that is back there
40:37
in the background
40:37
SPEAKER_01: that's cruising along.
40:38
I've also got another photo I found that or a painting and I
40:42
don't know where it came from.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: I can't find a it's not a famous painting,
40:46
but of of that big boat of a big boat that looks like that one
40:49
sailing through
40:50
SPEAKER_01: really,
40:50
SPEAKER_01: really rough waters.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: And I often think like, that's what I need to be.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: You know,
40:54
SPEAKER_01: I need to be that version of just cruising through,
40:57
SPEAKER_01: even though the,
40:58
SPEAKER_01: the,
40:58
SPEAKER_01: the,
40:58
SPEAKER_01: the seas are rough,
40:59
SPEAKER_01: but cruising through with purpose and calmness and nobody's,
41:02
SPEAKER_01: it's not frantic.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: It's just calm.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: We're, we're, we're making our way through.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: And that's, that is how Kim is.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: All right.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Number five, roadhouse.
41:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: The movie.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: The original, correct?
41:20
SPEAKER_00: We're talking about Patrick Swayze, not Jake Gyllenhaal.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're talking about Swayze.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: And I was telling you before we started recording,
41:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how to say anything that makes sense about this movie.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: But it is so funny.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Let's just have you kind of explain the premise or the plot of the movie.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: If that helps for people who haven't seen it.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: I can't believe anybody would see it.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: So on the forum on my website,
41:48
SPEAKER_01: if people want to request a podcast guest or whatever,
41:51
SPEAKER_01: the last question is,
41:53
SPEAKER_01: what is your favorite quote from Roadhouse?
41:55
SPEAKER_01: And you have to put something in there.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: And so if people can't, they're like, I've never seen it.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, sorry, I'm not responding.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: That's the way.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: Yesterday, some guy wrote WTF in there.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: And I generally don't respond to any negative stuff,
42:13
SPEAKER_01: but I instantly fired back and I was like,
42:16
SPEAKER_01: are you serious?
42:16
SPEAKER_01: You've never seen Roadhouse?
42:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, WTF is right.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: But then he wrote a really nice email back.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: He's like, I love the podcast.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: I thought it was Sunhouse from David James Duncan.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: And then I felt bad about it.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: That would be way too elitist, I feel like.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've got to read this 1,000-page book.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 1,000-page book.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: So Roadhouse is Swayze in primetime Swayze.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: late eighties.
42:47
And he is,
42:49
the premise is that he is a bouncer at bars,
42:53
but they call him a cooler.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: He's not a bouncer.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: He's a cooler.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: So he's like the head, the head bouncer.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: And he is a guy whose specialty is he goes to,
43:01
SPEAKER_01: From bar to bar,
43:02
SPEAKER_01: like the roughest bars in the country,
43:03
SPEAKER_01: if a bar owner has problems,
43:06
SPEAKER_01: they somehow figure out how to get a hold of Dalton is his name,
43:09
SPEAKER_01: and they bring him in to the bar.
43:11
And then he cleans it up,
43:12
and he gets it going,
43:14
and then he leaves and goes to the next one.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: And so he's just made a career out of doing this.
43:19
And then he gets hired by this guy named Frank Tillman to come
43:23
clean up a bar
43:23
SPEAKER_01: called Double Deuce in Jasper,
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Missouri.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: And he gets there,
43:27
SPEAKER_01: and he's in over his head because there's like a crime boss,
43:29
SPEAKER_01: this guy named Brad Wesley.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: and there are all these mean people,
43:32
SPEAKER_01: and for the first time ever,
43:33
SPEAKER_01: he's having a hard time,
43:35
SPEAKER_01: like,
43:35
SPEAKER_01: how am I going to clean this bar up?
43:37
SPEAKER_01: And it just goes crazy.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: Like,
43:39
SPEAKER_01: Brad Wesley's bad guys,
43:40
SPEAKER_01: they have a monster truck that they drive around,
43:42
SPEAKER_01: and they,
43:42
SPEAKER_01: like,
43:43
SPEAKER_01: they smash.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: If you don't pay,
43:45
SPEAKER_01: the people in the town,
43:46
SPEAKER_01: if you don't pay Brad Wesley his,
43:48
SPEAKER_01: like,
43:48
SPEAKER_01: protection fee,
43:49
he's going to blow up your building or drive a monster truck
43:52
through your car
43:52
SPEAKER_01: dealership.
43:54
And so it's just this,
43:55
it's the ultimate in 80s kind of crazy movies,
43:59
right?
44:00
SPEAKER_01: And there are just so many funny lessons there.
44:02
I think one of them is the thing is hilarious,
44:05
and it's not really supposed to be hilarious.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think when you think about being funny,
44:10
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a good instruction manual to you got to be all in.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: You got to play it as serious as possible.
44:19
Because like you see me on Saturday Night Live,
44:21
they're not laughing at their own jokes.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: They're playing it as straight and as serious as possible.
44:26
And so it's a good reminder that that's what's funny is when
44:31
people are dead
44:32
SPEAKER_01: serious about this role they're playing,
44:34
SPEAKER_01: but the circumstances are so crazy.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: But it's supposed to be an action movie, and it is.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: And it's really good.
44:40
But at the end of the day,
44:42
I would say it's the funniest thing I've ever seen.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Ever.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: It's funnier than any comedy movie I've ever seen.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: So Patrick Swayze, 1987, is in Dirty Dancing.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: 1989, Roadhouse.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: 1990, Ghost.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: 1991, Point Break.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: This is a pretty great era for him.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is primetime Swayze, too.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's just nailing it.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: But there really are, though, there's some funny one-liners in there.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: And I teach my daughters these things.
45:19
I can't let them watch it because the lead-up to the one-liners
45:22
are really crude and nasty.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: But I teach them.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: It's like...
45:26
SPEAKER_00: What's that?
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Significant.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: Significant butt shots.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: But a lot of boobs, like, you know, typical 80s stuff.
45:33
But but the whole thing with him when he's there's some point
45:38
where he's getting
45:38
stitches at the local hospital because he's and for some reason
45:41
he carries his
45:42
SPEAKER_01: medical records around with him.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: And the doctor's looking at his medical records.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, it looks like you've had a rough life.
45:48
And then he goes,
45:49
but it looks like here you've got a philosophy degree from NYU.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, why is his diploma in the medical files?
45:57
But anyway,
45:59
so he's like a Zen philosopher guy who goes out and fights and
46:04
beats people up.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: But he is just unbelievably calm the whole time.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: And I've had a lot of challenges in my life staying calm.
46:11
SPEAKER_01: And so when you see this guy,
46:12
like there's one point where a guy comes up and just starts
46:15
yelling at him and
46:17
SPEAKER_01: insulting him.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Patrick Swayze is not a big guy.
46:19
And you would think the stereotypical bouncer would be like a
46:22
football lineman.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: He's a pretty little dude.
46:25
SPEAKER_01: And so they had to address that in the script,
46:27
SPEAKER_01: you know,
46:28
SPEAKER_01: like how is this little guy such an effective bouncer?
46:30
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, this guy goes, he just insults him.
46:34
And he goes,
46:34
you know,
46:35
I heard all this good stuff about you,
46:36
but blah,
46:37
blah,
46:37
blah,
46:38
blah,
46:38
blah.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: I thought you'd be bigger.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, he just looks at him.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: He goes, opinions vary.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: And then just keeps talking.
46:46
And I tell my daughters all the time when they have problems at
46:49
school or,
46:50
SPEAKER_01: you know,
46:50
SPEAKER_01: other little girls saying stuff mean or whatever.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: I say, you just got to always say opinions vary.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: And I say that on my,
46:58
SPEAKER_01: like,
46:58
SPEAKER_01: I have that as one of the frequently asked questions when people say,
47:01
SPEAKER_01: If people get mad about something on the podcast,
47:04
SPEAKER_01: which is so strange to me,
47:05
SPEAKER_01: it's always like,
47:06
SPEAKER_01: well,
47:07
SPEAKER_01: opinions vary.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: Versus trying to engage with them, trying to fight, trying to argue.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing any of that.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: I might have a nice conversation.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: If you and I disagreed on something,
47:17
I'd be willing to put in the time to have a talk about it and
47:19
try to figure out
47:20
SPEAKER_01: where am I thinking about things wrong.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: But with most people,
47:25
SPEAKER_01: it just comes down to if they want to argue,
47:27
SPEAKER_01: I just go,
47:27
SPEAKER_01: well,
47:28
SPEAKER_01: opinions vary.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: This is how I, this is how I feel heard.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: Put my opinion out there.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Um,
47:36
SPEAKER_00: so how did,
47:37
SPEAKER_00: so if people have been following you for a long time,
47:40
SPEAKER_00: they might see posts on social media where you say,
47:44
SPEAKER_00: Hey,
47:44
I'm putting together my book recommendations and you'll have a
47:47
stack of books that
47:49
SPEAKER_00: you've read or some of your favorites.
47:50
And then in the,
47:51
in the middle of there somewhere,
47:52
it'll be a DVD copy of roadhouse.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, can you explain how, um,
48:00
SPEAKER_00: Why are we talking about this movie as your list of five things?
48:03
SPEAKER_00: At what point did you start making it part of this shtick?
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, I probably came across it.
48:09
So my favorite 80s funny movie for a long time used to be Cobra
48:13
with Sylvester
48:14
SPEAKER_01: Stallone,
48:14
where he wears those aviator sunglasses and he's got a match in
48:19
his mouth the whole
48:20
SPEAKER_01: time.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: It might have an even lower Rotten Tomatoes rating.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: No, it's not good.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: For the first maybe 15 minutes, you can watch it.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: And my buddies and I used to watch it.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: And then there's a point where he takes off his sunglasses.
48:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, all right, you can turn it off.
48:33
SPEAKER_01: But it's just hilarious.
48:34
SPEAKER_01: It's hilarious.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: But then we kind of transformed into watching Roadhouse.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: And then we would watch the whole thing.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: It was just so funny.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: And again, like pre-internet and then as the internet picked up.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: But what I've found is one of these things that...
48:49
People that love it absolutely love it,
48:53
and it's like a bonding experience.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: You can mention it to somebody, and somebody you might not even expect.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever seen Roadhouse?
49:00
SPEAKER_01: And you can tell a lot.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: They'll light up.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh, yeah, I love it.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: And then there's that book you recommended, this one here.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: Pain Don't Hurt, 365 Meditations on Roadhouse.
49:13
SPEAKER_01: And it's this guy who's like a legit writer.
49:15
He spent every day writing a essay about Roadhouse and then put
49:19
them together in this book.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: So I can't explain what it is,
49:25
but there's something about it that people that love it
49:29
absolutely love it.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: And you can kind of bond with people.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: And I don't do it as much as I used to, but I used to just...
49:35
Throw that out on the podcast when I was asking questions just
49:38
randomly like,
49:39
SPEAKER_01: you ever seen Roadhouse?
49:40
SPEAKER_01: And probably 70% of the time they go crazy and they love it.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: The other time it's just like, what?
49:47
SPEAKER_01: No, I've never seen that.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: Never mind.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: And then I keep asking other questions.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: But I can't explain it.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: I can't explain it.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: There's no movie like it.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: There are funny life lessons,
49:57
SPEAKER_01: particularly about being calm,
49:59
but it's a very amazing snapshot of a very specific time in
50:03
American culture.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: It's just really, really, really, really funny.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: I've been thinking for like a week about why is it so funny?
50:14
SPEAKER_01: Why is it so important to me?
50:15
SPEAKER_01: And I can't really figure it out.
50:18
So I apologize to your listeners for having to listen to me
50:21
figure it out in public.
50:24
Do you think that kind of taking the piss and saying it's your
50:26
favorite movie and
50:28
SPEAKER_00: making sort of a joke about it has forced you to...
50:31
SPEAKER_00: pay more attention to it and like develop a relationship that's more,
50:37
SPEAKER_00: you're more in love with it because you've,
50:39
SPEAKER_00: you're like,
50:40
SPEAKER_00: well,
50:40
SPEAKER_00: I got to keep this thing going.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:42
And cause I remember one time when I lived in Boulder,
50:44
I was,
50:45
I went over to something.
50:46
SPEAKER_01: It was all these guys like sitting around and,
50:49
and just kind of like a neighborhood gathering and somehow it
50:52
came to movies and
50:53
SPEAKER_01: And they were talking about favorite movies.
50:55
And they were all naming off all these very sophisticated
50:58
movies and the kind of
50:59
movies that you would think people would say when they say
51:02
their favorite movie.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, mine's Roadhouse.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: And everybody started laughing really hard.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of a joke when I said it, but then I didn't smile.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: I was like, what?
51:10
SPEAKER_01: Like it really is, it's really my favorite movie.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's a way to,
51:14
I think it's a way to throw people off a little bit and let
51:16
them know it confuses
51:18
people because it's either like you don't take yourself too
51:20
seriously or maybe you
51:21
do take yourself very seriously and the serious version of you
51:24
is very weird.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: But it's just, it's a way to, it's a way to throw people off and
51:30
SPEAKER_01: And I just, I love causing confusion.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: I love people to be confused.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: I think the funniest jokes are when people are confused.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: And so that's just a way.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: But then when you really like start studying,
51:40
SPEAKER_01: and then when I read this book that you told me about,
51:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
51:43
SPEAKER_01: this guy,
51:43
SPEAKER_01: this guy knows more than me.
51:45
SPEAKER_01: I need to brush up.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: I have not read the book.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: I just saw it and I was like, this thing is $60 or whatever.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: I should have bought it for you.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: Whenever he reprints another one, I have him to buy it.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: It's really funny.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: He has all these theories in there.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: Brad Wesley is the head bad guy, the mobster.
52:06
He has a theory that there's this henchman that does all the
52:10
fighting for Brad Wesley.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: His name is Jimmy.
52:12
This guy's got this long,
52:13
elaborate theory that Jimmy is Brad Wesley's son.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: This sounds kind of like Shea Serrano type movie writing.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: The guy's a really good writer.
52:27
Should we talk about the remake of Roadhouse that came out,
52:33
was it last year?
52:34
SPEAKER_00: Starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Patrick Swayze as Dalton.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: I watched it, and I thought it took me two sittings.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: I was on the road.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: I was in California doing some stuff,
52:45
SPEAKER_01: and I watched it in a hotel,
52:46
SPEAKER_01: and I didn't watch it all the way through.
52:48
SPEAKER_01: But, I mean, it was good.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: It was funny.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: It's got Ewan McGregor.
52:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm not – Conor McGregor, the MMA fighters in it.
52:56
SPEAKER_01: And Gyllenhaal is really ripped and got his shirt off the whole time.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: But it's not really roadhouse.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: It's just –
53:03
SPEAKER_01: It's just a crazy movie.
53:05
SPEAKER_01: They're riding around in boats and blowing stuff up,
53:07
SPEAKER_01: and I don't really remember any of the funny lines,
53:09
SPEAKER_01: but it was fine.
53:11
SPEAKER_01: I made those stickers.
53:12
I sent you one,
53:14
and it says Swayze,
53:16
and then it has a greater than sign,
53:17
Gyllenhaal.
53:19
But I haven't promoted those things widely because I don't want
53:22
to trash Gyllenhaal.
53:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that guy, but I feel like he's doing his thing.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: He's trying to make a good movie.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to rip into him.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: He's doing his thing.
53:32
I don't want to make fun of a creative person trying to put
53:36
stuff in the world,
53:37
SPEAKER_01: but at the same time,
53:38
SPEAKER_01: it's just a different movie.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: It's not Roadhouse.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: You could even,
53:43
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
53:44
SPEAKER_00: no,
53:44
SPEAKER_00: it's,
53:45
SPEAKER_00: um,
53:46
I think there's a couple of lines that are still the same from
53:49
the previous movie.
53:50
SPEAKER_00: Nobody ever wins a fight.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: That's like my favorite.
53:53
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
53:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: That's what I've learned with jujitsu.
53:57
SPEAKER_01: Like I've never wanted to get in a fight less in my whole life.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't want anything to do with a fight because I know how it feels.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, it's, there's lots of wisdom in there.
54:07
SPEAKER_01: The thing about be nice, always be nice, be nice, be nice.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: It's our famous Montana representative,
54:15
SPEAKER_00: Jeanette Rankin's quote,
54:17
SPEAKER_00: you can no more win a war than an earthquake.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:21
SPEAKER_00: Very Dalton.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: It is.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: But that was 70 years before Roadhouse came out.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: So I think Dalton was maybe channeling Jeanette Rankin.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: I hope those make some sort of sense.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: This was super fun.
54:41
SPEAKER_00: I feel like Roadhouse really, truly... It was its proper function, right?
54:49
SPEAKER_00: Where we talk about like...
54:52
these way more intelligent books and paintings and i guess
54:56
jimmy buffett too but
54:57
but then roadhouse brings it down to like is it some levity
55:00
right and like okay
55:02
you're a real guy you know i've connected i've made headway in
55:06
connecting with the
55:07
um the director of his name is rowdy harrington yeah and he
55:13
lives in livingston
55:14
montana and um i have i have connected with the guy but it's
55:18
the kind of thing
55:18
SPEAKER_01: where
55:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if I would love to get him on the podcast,
55:23
SPEAKER_01: but at the same time,
55:24
I wouldn't ever want him to think I'm laughing at it or making
55:26
fun because I'm
55:27
SPEAKER_01: definitely not.
55:29
SPEAKER_01: That movie has made more of a mark than so many movies,
55:35
SPEAKER_01: but at the same time,
55:36
SPEAKER_01: I just don't even know what I would say to him if I met him,
55:39
SPEAKER_01: but I'm connected now.
55:41
SPEAKER_01: Rowdy.
55:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:44
You'd have to do some,
55:45
some digging and try to come up with some original stuff there.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: Like just to just angles.
55:51
SPEAKER_00: And you might find out a lot of really interesting stuff about the,
55:54
SPEAKER_00: about the film and the production of it too.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: There's a great for people that don't understand anything I'm saying.
56:00
There's a podcast episode called the podcast called the
56:02
rewatchables with Bill
56:04
SPEAKER_01: Simmons,
56:04
where they go through and they talk about roadhouse and the
56:07
podcast is longer than
56:08
SPEAKER_01: the actual film.
56:09
SPEAKER_01: The podcast is two hours.
56:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:11
and they they know it they know it all the way through and it
56:15
is so funny listening
56:16
to them talk about it and question all the things and they like
56:20
i learned i learned
56:21
so much i didn't know um about it but that if you listen to
56:24
that episode it will
56:25
give you so much insight into why that thing is the the
56:31
cultural moment why it
56:33
SPEAKER_01: created the cultural moment it did it doesn't make any sense
56:37
SPEAKER_00: I'll put it in the show notes.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, dude.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: People should listen to that.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: Awesome, man.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
56:44
SPEAKER_00: This was super, super fun.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
56:46
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.