Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Bound with Vanessa Guerrero

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Bound with Vanessa Guerrero · The Bechdel Cast

0:00
Speaker 1: On the beck Del Cast, the questions asked if movies
0:03
Speaker 1: have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
0:07
Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef
0:11
Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the beck Del cass Oh, Jamie,
0:17
Speaker 1: I dropped my earring down the sink. Can you reach
0:21
Speaker 1: into my drain and get it out? Um? Yes, I'm
0:29
Speaker 1: assuming that's why you hired me to come here, is
0:33
Speaker 1: to remove things from your drain? Is that correct? Yeah?
0:38
Speaker 1: And if you need to keep reaching into my drain
0:43
Speaker 1: over and over? Would you like to have sex? Is
0:45
Speaker 1: that what you're saying? Because these metaphors are getting exhausting
0:49
Speaker 1: for me. Gina Gershawn Yeah, And Emmy Jennifer Tilly, Oh
0:58
Speaker 1: my god, Jennifer, I get it. Okay, let's have sex.
1:02
Speaker 1: I would like to fuck I've created Wow. Oh that
1:09
Speaker 1: is actually an iconic Jennifer Tilly impression. Congratulation. I felt
1:14
Speaker 1: like I wasn't doing a very good job, but thank you.
1:17
Speaker 1: I felt like you captured the spirit. Thank you. Thanks.
1:20
Speaker 1: I think it was great. Um well, I think that
1:22
Speaker 1: was our best introid truly, many moods, years years, years years.
1:29
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.
1:32
Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our podcast
1:35
Speaker 1: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
1:39
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point to
1:42
Speaker 1: initiate a larger conversation. The Bechtel Test being a media
1:47
Speaker 1: metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the
1:51
Speaker 1: Bechtel Wallace test, in which our version requires that two
1:56
Speaker 1: people of a marginalized gender have names, they speak to
1:59
Speaker 1: each other, and their conversation has to be about something
2:02
Speaker 1: other than a man for like a two or more
2:06
Speaker 1: line exchange of dialogue, and hopefully that conversation is narratively impactful.
2:11
Speaker 1: Right this is I mean, first of all, you really
2:15
Speaker 1: took control of the intro there, and I really thought
2:19
Speaker 1: it was powerful and exciting. Thank you, Jennifer. And yeah,
2:25
Speaker 1: and in the case of this movie, I really don't
2:28
Speaker 1: think we're going to be having many issues as it
2:32
Speaker 1: pertains to the Bechtel test. However, we have a great
2:36
Speaker 1: conversation ahead because today we are covering the Wachowski Sisters
2:41
Speaker 1: classic There I believe their first first feature together. Yeah, Bound,
2:51
Speaker 1: starring impressionized incredibly by Caitlin and myself, Jennifer Tilly and
2:56
Speaker 1: Gina Gershawn, as well as Joey and pants Um Angst
3:00
Speaker 1: a couple of other people. Christopher Maloney is in the
3:03
Speaker 1: Damn Movie. Christopher Maloney is in the Damn Movie. And
3:06
Speaker 1: that's a really good point. Um, thank you. We have
3:11
Speaker 1: we we have so recovering bound and we have an
3:13
Speaker 1: incredible returning guest who I believe in text in our
3:18
Speaker 1: last episode, wanted to cover this movie. Absolutely. Yes, I
3:23
Speaker 1: think I might have been I might have immolated myself
3:26
Speaker 1: if it didn't happen. Um. I love this movie so
3:31
Speaker 1: much with every pore of my being, and I've wanted
3:34
Speaker 1: a reason to like talk about it. Well, but here
3:38
Speaker 1: is here, and let's introduce you properly. Our guest today
3:43
Speaker 1: is a comedian and host of the Kicking and Screaming podcast.
3:46
Speaker 1: You remember her from our episodes on Maid in Manhattan,
3:50
Speaker 1: Raw and Atomic Blonde. It's Vanessa Guerrero. Hello, thank you
3:57
Speaker 1: so much for having me back. I love that this
3:59
Speaker 1: all star arted with the rom com episode in which
4:02
Speaker 1: uh I had a four logo because Jamie had one,
4:05
Speaker 1: and then I got drunker than I've ever been in
4:07
Speaker 1: my whole life. I clearly well, I wouldn't say I
4:12
Speaker 1: clearly remember that. I definitely remember that. I just remember, like, oh, Ship,
4:22
Speaker 1: even like um, hearing the list of movies you've covered
4:26
Speaker 1: with us in the past is such a delight because
4:28
Speaker 1: it really just we've covered so much ground and we're
4:32
Speaker 1: only expanding upon that ground today with Bound. Oh my gosh, Bound,
4:37
Speaker 1: What is your relationship your history with the film Bound? Vanessa. So,
4:43
Speaker 1: there were like a couple of movies that I would
4:44
Speaker 1: see on i f C really late night as a
4:47
Speaker 1: kid that were like, oh my god, this is horny
4:51
Speaker 1: and gay, and this is very much like awakening something
4:55
Speaker 1: in me in ways that I can't quite unpack yet.
4:57
Speaker 1: Their mine, and it was like this and and I'm
5:00
Speaker 1: a cheerleader. It was it was usually like one or
5:03
Speaker 1: the other. And Bound blew my mind because it took
5:07
Speaker 1: the shape of so many things that I like and
5:09
Speaker 1: I had seen before, Like it took every neo noir
5:14
Speaker 1: Marlon Brando ass like someone in a tank top brooding
5:18
Speaker 1: in dark alleys that I've seen a million times, but
5:22
Speaker 1: put it into this like almost comic book perspective that
5:26
Speaker 1: just so happened to start two of the hottest women
5:28
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Truly, I did that thing where when
5:32
Speaker 1: you want someone you try and take on their personality,
5:35
Speaker 1: So I was constantly swinging in between like hyper fem
5:39
Speaker 1: and mask presentations. Bound definitely like. I experienced a lot
5:44
Speaker 1: of like euphoria with this movie, and it made me
5:47
Speaker 1: love the witch Howski so much that I watched everything
5:51
Speaker 1: that they had ever made except for The Matrix because
5:53
Speaker 1: I was scared that it wouldn't live up to it.
5:55
Speaker 1: And I didn't watch The Matrix until I was like,
5:58
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. I saw twell times
6:00
Speaker 1: in one week. I mean people watched it later, some
6:03
Speaker 1: people watched it later than that. That's all I'll say.
6:09
Speaker 1: I love all of that. Jamie, what's your relationship with Bound? Um?
6:18
Speaker 1: I didn't think I had much of a relationship with it,
6:20
Speaker 1: And then as I was so, I had not seen
6:22
Speaker 1: this movie in full before until preparing for this episode, however,
6:27
Speaker 1: I realized as I was watching it that it's so
6:30
Speaker 1: funny that you mentioned I f C and I'm assuming
6:34
Speaker 1: the like latesh Odds Vanessa, because I think I've mentioned
6:39
Speaker 1: this on the show before. My dad was like, a
6:42
Speaker 1: big time, like when he was done with work for
6:44
Speaker 1: the night and like the rest of the family was asleep,
6:47
Speaker 1: he would watch I f C movies like no one's business.
6:50
Speaker 1: And sometimes if you walk into your parents watching an
6:54
Speaker 1: I f C late night movie, it's uncomfortable. And so
6:57
Speaker 1: I do remember clearly one night in a movie that
7:01
Speaker 1: I now realized was bound um walking downstairs, passing my
7:08
Speaker 1: dad at the TV to get to the kitchen to
7:10
Speaker 1: get a glass of water and being like, Michael, what
7:13
Speaker 1: are you watching because it was a scene of Gina
7:18
Speaker 1: Kershawn and Jennifer Tilly making sweet love to each other,
7:22
Speaker 1: and he was like, it's an i f C movie. Relax,
7:25
Speaker 1: because Michaelofts is the king of punk and always has been,
7:30
Speaker 1: always will be. But I remember at the time being
7:33
Speaker 1: scandalized by what my father was watching on probably a Tuesday.
7:38
Speaker 1: And then as I was watching this movie that I
7:41
Speaker 1: really I've now watched three times and I've really really
7:44
Speaker 1: come to like I can't wait to talk about it
7:46
Speaker 1: because it's so fucking good and like not only like
7:51
Speaker 1: incredible for its time, but incredible for like right now
7:54
Speaker 1: watching it today shows so much about like what's to
7:58
Speaker 1: come in the witch Howski sister filmography, like, it just
8:01
Speaker 1: is so good. But also I saw my dad watching
8:04
Speaker 1: it in high school and I was like, oh, um,
8:07
Speaker 1: that's my whole history with it. I love it. I'm
8:09
Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. Caitlin, what's your history with
8:13
Speaker 1: this movie. I had never seen any part of this movie,
8:18
Speaker 1: not not even on the Tuesday No, but it was
8:22
Speaker 1: on my It's been on my radar forever. It's been
8:24
Speaker 1: on my list of things to watch forever. I just
8:27
Speaker 1: had not gotten around to it. So this episode was
8:29
Speaker 1: the perfect excuse. I've seen it, I think four times
8:32
Speaker 1: now in the past like two weeks. This movie fucking rules.
8:37
Speaker 1: Like I am sad that I slept on it for
8:40
Speaker 1: so long, but yeah, I'm so excited to talk about it.
8:44
Speaker 1: I kind of don't have a bad thing to say
8:46
Speaker 1: about it. It's all good stuff, perfect, It's kind of
8:50
Speaker 1: a perfect movie. Should I recap it? Yeah, let's recap it?
8:54
Speaker 1: Why not? Oh? Sorry, I was just trying to figure
8:58
Speaker 1: out there's a character played by Kevin M. Richardson. He's
9:02
Speaker 1: only credited as Cop Number two, but I immediately recognized
9:06
Speaker 1: his voice and I was like, Oh my god, who
9:09
Speaker 1: is this man? Who is this man. So he is
9:12
Speaker 1: the cop that is peeing in the toilet while there's blood,
9:16
Speaker 1: while there's a guy and dead in the tub, and
9:20
Speaker 1: his voice like I don't know, I just I'm such
9:22
Speaker 1: like I'm so animation filled them, like I know this
9:24
Speaker 1: man's voice. It turns out he is an iconic voice actor,
9:30
Speaker 1: and he plays a character in Delilo and Stitch franchise
9:34
Speaker 1: named Captain Gone to God. That's why his voice was
9:39
Speaker 1: familiar to me. He's been in a timing. You could
9:43
Speaker 1: recognize his voice from any you know, wild amount of things.
9:46
Speaker 1: But I definitely was like, oh yeah, and then he
9:48
Speaker 1: was like in subsequently Low and Stitch stuff. I'm like, okay,
9:52
Speaker 1: I feel so much better. It's such a relief when
9:55
Speaker 1: you hear someone's voice and then you can connect it
9:57
Speaker 1: to a cartoon character for whatever reason, and oh yeah,
10:01
Speaker 1: my brand's like oh cool, they're really get around them
10:03
Speaker 1: in reality. Right, You're like, that is Captain Gontu, isn't it? Anyways? Okay,
10:09
Speaker 1: the movie bound, sorry movie bound here here it comes. Okay,
10:13
Speaker 1: So Violet, that's Jennifer Tilly and her husband, her husband
10:19
Speaker 1: or maybe boyfriend. I don't know if they're married or
10:22
Speaker 1: just like partnered. Um, yeah, I don't put them in
10:24
Speaker 1: a box. I'm so sorry. This toxic relationship could be anything,
10:28
Speaker 1: could be anything. You're right, it's like a symbiotic toxic relation. Well,
10:31
Speaker 1: one way someone surviving and then the other person is
10:34
Speaker 1: a piece of ship. It's almost as if she's kind
10:37
Speaker 1: of like bound to him, but not because she wants
10:40
Speaker 1: to be. Yes, there's so much binding in this movie.
10:45
Speaker 1: Sexy and otherwise. His name is Caesar. That's Joe Pantaliano
10:52
Speaker 1: a k. Joey Pants. They get into an elevator with
10:56
Speaker 1: Corky that's Gina Gershawn, Violent and cork He make eyes
11:01
Speaker 1: at each other. Then Violet and Caesar go into their
11:06
Speaker 1: condo while Quirky goes into the unit next door. She's
11:11
Speaker 1: there to do repairs and fix up the place. Also
11:15
Speaker 1: a quick shout out to the score of this movie
11:18
Speaker 1: by someone named Don Davis, because any time, any time
11:23
Speaker 1: Quirky and Violet are in an enclosed space together, it's well,
11:27
Speaker 1: in the elevator, it's something like brown brown, brown, like
11:31
Speaker 1: it's like a very like it's very nineties sexy music. Yeah,
11:37
Speaker 1: it's like making out in the rain to like an
11:40
Speaker 1: m and s song Horny is Horny. I appreciate it
11:46
Speaker 1: and like, no need to play subtle here. The score
11:49
Speaker 1: was written by Don Davis. As you said, he also
11:51
Speaker 1: wrote the score for The Matrix, and you can there's
11:55
Speaker 1: a lot of similarities between When like I was watching
11:58
Speaker 1: Bound and I was like, oh my gosh, this sounds
12:00
Speaker 1: very similar to the score of The Matrix. I agree,
12:04
Speaker 1: and and okay, one word Don Davis fact and then
12:08
Speaker 1: we will turn. So I feel like this TV series
12:11
Speaker 1: that only I have seen has come up an absurd
12:14
Speaker 1: amount of times on this show. Is that The Beauty
12:16
Speaker 1: and the Beast. Yes, it's the Ron Perlman at the
12:20
Speaker 1: Ron Perlman Linda Hamilton's Beauty and the Beast series. He
12:24
Speaker 1: also scored that. And you can also hear that. You
12:28
Speaker 1: can hear the echoes the foundation of the Bound soundtrack.
12:32
Speaker 1: I feel like, if we ever end up covering Boundry
12:34
Speaker 1: on this show, the Bound track, if you will, if
12:38
Speaker 1: you if we ever end up covering TV shows Linda
12:42
Speaker 1: Hamilton's Ron Perlman Beauty and the Beast, it's cannon. It's
12:46
Speaker 1: just like, if not good at least funny, what if
12:50
Speaker 1: we pivot for like a few months and just do
12:53
Speaker 1: a spin off series and just cover that. Also, Don
12:56
Speaker 1: Davis did music on recent covered movie Casper. Oh my god,
13:01
Speaker 1: the music, and that makes me think, like it's fall right.
13:05
Speaker 1: It's like so he sometimes is like riding on James
13:09
Speaker 1: Horner's pegs, if you will to put this in the
13:12
Speaker 1: middle schools, like he sometimes is the assistant to James Horner. So,
13:16
Speaker 1: you know, shout out to Don Davis for giving us
13:19
Speaker 1: a sexy elevator. Um upright, bass pluck vibe. I appreciated it.
13:24
Speaker 1: Love it, love it. Um Okay. So Quirky and Violet
13:29
Speaker 1: have encountered each other in the elevator. Then Violet comes
13:33
Speaker 1: over to the unit quirkies in and introduces herself to Quirky,
13:38
Speaker 1: brings her a cup of coffee. They chat it is
13:41
Speaker 1: very horny and seductive. I assumed you light it like
13:45
Speaker 1: I assumed you light to coffee black good. Yes, you're like.
13:50
Speaker 1: And then she's like, it's so cool that you can
13:52
Speaker 1: fix things, but these walls are so thin, so could
13:56
Speaker 1: you just wait a while until you start using your
13:59
Speaker 1: tools because I'm a night person. They're both just like
14:02
Speaker 1: a lot of skirls and silver, like, oh my god,
14:05
Speaker 1: yes that is very much their vibe where it's like,
14:08
Speaker 1: I like these women. I don't know if I could
14:12
Speaker 1: hang out with them. I'm threatened by them. I am
14:16
Speaker 1: deeply inpredated by them. I think they would hate me.
14:20
Speaker 1: I think they would absolutely hate me, but I admire
14:24
Speaker 1: them from a disk. I would be sitting across the
14:27
Speaker 1: bar from them, like, Wow, how cool. And then they
14:30
Speaker 1: will not be there here right thrilled for them not
14:33
Speaker 1: going to uh, you know, roll the diason whether they
14:37
Speaker 1: would want to talk to me or not. They don't. Hey,
14:41
Speaker 1: you never know. But Corny Corky is playing it cool
14:44
Speaker 1: and she's just like, yeah, whatever, I'll hold off on
14:48
Speaker 1: using my drain snake or whatever. And then she's like,
14:52
Speaker 1: by the way, I drive a truck, and I talked
14:54
Speaker 1: about her truck for a while. Then Corky goes to
14:58
Speaker 1: a lesbian bar. We learned that she is an ex
15:03
Speaker 1: con who recently spent five years in prison. She's a
15:06
Speaker 1: professional thief. Then Quirky goes over to Violet's place to
15:12
Speaker 1: fish out a piece of jewelry that Violet accidentally quote
15:17
Speaker 1: unquote dropped down the sink. You can tell it wasn't
15:20
Speaker 1: on purpose because of the upright bass music that continues
15:24
Speaker 1: throughout the scene. Here's my brilliant observation about this. So
15:31
Speaker 1: we just covered Imagine Me and You, and there's a
15:34
Speaker 1: scene in that movie where one woman needs the help
15:38
Speaker 1: of another woman to fish a piece of jewelry out
15:40
Speaker 1: of a punch bowl, and that is the catalyst to
15:44
Speaker 1: get them to like start getting to know each other
15:47
Speaker 1: and eventually get together and kiss. And that's the same
15:51
Speaker 1: thing that happens in this movie. Wait, Vanessa, you've seen
15:54
Speaker 1: Imagine Me and You? Yes. Um. Riley Silverman told me
15:58
Speaker 1: to watch it one holiday when I that there isn't
16:00
Speaker 1: enough gay rom com um and she basically like live
16:05
Speaker 1: texted me through it as I had my experience with
16:08
Speaker 1: it the first time and lost my mind. Oh, I
16:12
Speaker 1: was like in a Hallmark mood, and I was like,
16:14
Speaker 1: I want something, Hallmark. I just want anybody other than
16:18
Speaker 1: this like configuration that I always see kissing to kiss.
16:22
Speaker 1: And I got it. It's almost like what I get
16:23
Speaker 1: out of Bound, where it's like I want bulb, but
16:26
Speaker 1: I want it. I want two girls to kiss in
16:29
Speaker 1: like a sweet rom com me way. Yeah exactly. Yeah,
16:33
Speaker 1: this truly is a cut I mean in the way
16:37
Speaker 1: like imagine Me and You we recently covered on the show,
16:39
Speaker 1: and it's such a blast, and like even more so
16:42
Speaker 1: than that movie, I feel like Bound delivers on like
16:46
Speaker 1: a great genre, like the mafia, haisty thriller kind of movie,
16:53
Speaker 1: without any of the baggage that usually comes with that genre.
16:58
Speaker 1: And so you can just watch it, yes and have
17:00
Speaker 1: an amazing time, which is all I've ever wanted exactly. Okay,
17:08
Speaker 1: So Quirky goes over to fish this piece of jewelry
17:10
Speaker 1: out of the sink. Then Violet offers her a drink.
17:14
Speaker 1: She's being very seductive again, and then she's like, by
17:17
Speaker 1: the way, I'm trying to seduce you, and she puts
17:21
Speaker 1: Quirky's hand between her legs and they start kissing. It's
17:24
Speaker 1: getting very hot and steamy. But then Caesar comes home
17:29
Speaker 1: and interrupts, but he doesn't see them, and they have
17:33
Speaker 1: a quick conversation and we gather that Caesar is in
17:37
Speaker 1: the mob. Then Violet goes to Quirky later that night
17:42
Speaker 1: or sometime later, they kiss again. They go back to
17:45
Speaker 1: Quirky's place and have sex, and boy do they they
17:50
Speaker 1: have sex, and a continuous shot that sex scene was
17:55
Speaker 1: choreographed by Susie Bright. Yes, yes, and it's so amazing
18:00
Speaker 1: watching it even now in terms of like how how
18:04
Speaker 1: I haven't quite seen anything like it, because even when
18:06
Speaker 1: I see lesbian sex on cameras, it tends to always
18:10
Speaker 1: have this like heteronormative angle of like being like, well,
18:13
Speaker 1: this one does this, and this other one does this.
18:16
Speaker 1: And I was watching it with a friend of mine
18:18
Speaker 1: who is twenty five and she's a lesbian and she's
18:21
Speaker 1: never seen this movie before. I hadn't even heard of it,
18:23
Speaker 1: and she was like, I have never ever, not even
18:27
Speaker 1: important see a fem be the one that's doing something
18:32
Speaker 1: to the mask one, right, It's always presented in that
18:37
Speaker 1: like very hetero sense of like, yeah, the mask is
18:39
Speaker 1: always the one that tops, right, And so she had
18:42
Speaker 1: never ever, not even imporn, like seen this perspective of
18:47
Speaker 1: what is so much closer to like a common experience,
18:51
Speaker 1: seeing someone at that age watching for the first time
18:54
Speaker 1: and realized they still don't have something like that. Susie Bright,
18:58
Speaker 1: Hang you yeah, we'll talk about that later. Susie Bright,
19:02
Speaker 1: She's a legend. Yeah, that that scene in general, I like,
19:06
Speaker 1: I feel like it true. It wasn't until the second
19:08
Speaker 1: viewing that that even registered for me because it is
19:10
Speaker 1: so effortless in the way the storytelling us. But you're like, yeah,
19:13
Speaker 1: you never see a FM top, especially in like a
19:18
Speaker 1: bigger movie, in the way that this was, Like, I
19:21
Speaker 1: just was what a this movie like subverts so much
19:26
Speaker 1: in a way that is so effortless that you don't
19:29
Speaker 1: you may not even necessarily notice it on the first time,
19:31
Speaker 1: because the first time I was just so thrilled to
19:33
Speaker 1: see them fucking um that it took me to the
19:37
Speaker 1: second viewing to be like, oh right, this was actually
19:40
Speaker 1: like not the most obvious way that this scene would
19:44
Speaker 1: be staged on the part of of Susie Bright and
19:47
Speaker 1: the Witch Howskies like, it's just this movie is amazing,
19:50
Speaker 1: It's great. Okay. So the next day Quirky sees this
19:54
Speaker 1: guy named Shelley go into Violets condo and then Quirky,
19:59
Speaker 1: here's the have sex through the walls. Then the next
20:03
Speaker 1: time Quirky and Violet see each other, Quirky confronts Violet
20:07
Speaker 1: about having sex with this guy with men in general
20:11
Speaker 1: kind of calls her a fraud, but Violet is like,
20:14
Speaker 1: that wasn't sex, that was work, And then they have
20:17
Speaker 1: a kind of an argument slash discussion about it, and
20:19
Speaker 1: then they part on kind of bad terms. Then Quirky
20:24
Speaker 1: sees a handful of mobsters bring that guy Shelly into
20:27
Speaker 1: Violet in Caesar's place. One of these mobsters is Johnny
20:32
Speaker 1: a k a. Christopher Maloney. Another is this guy named Mickey,
20:36
Speaker 1: and Caesar and the other mob boys start beating the
20:42
Speaker 1: ship out of Shelly. What a wise guy types, Oh yeah,
20:48
Speaker 1: Shelly apparently stole money from the mob boss, so they
20:53
Speaker 1: start chopping his fingers off trying to get him to
20:55
Speaker 1: tell them where the money is. Meanwhile, Violet goes to
21:00
Speaker 1: Quirky and confides in her that she can't do this anymore.
21:04
Speaker 1: She can't be with Caesar, she can't be around all
21:06
Speaker 1: this violence. She wants out, She wants a new life,
21:08
Speaker 1: and she needs Quirky's help to get out of this situation.
21:12
Speaker 1: So they start to devise a plan. They are going
21:16
Speaker 1: to steal the two million dollars that Shelley had stolen
21:21
Speaker 1: from the mob boss, but Quirky isn't sure that she
21:24
Speaker 1: can trust Violet not to set her up, but they
21:27
Speaker 1: decided to trust each other and move forward with the plan,
21:32
Speaker 1: which is so the mob boss Geno Marzoni is supposed
21:36
Speaker 1: to come and pick up the money generic Italian name.
21:41
Speaker 1: You're like yep yep ye. So he's supposed to come
21:45
Speaker 1: and pick up the money from Caesar at his and
21:48
Speaker 1: Violets condo along with his son, who is Johnny ak
21:52
Speaker 1: Christopher Maloney, but Quirky is going to sneak in and
21:56
Speaker 1: steal the money while Caesar is in the shower for
22:00
Speaker 1: Gino and company show up, and then Violet is going
22:04
Speaker 1: to convince Caesar that Johnny must have come in and
22:07
Speaker 1: stolen the money when she goes out to buy scotch
22:12
Speaker 1: because she like fake breaks this bottle of scotch. I
22:15
Speaker 1: love that whole Like how many It's like not even
22:19
Speaker 1: how many queer troops are like shattered in this movie.
22:22
Speaker 1: It's just like film noir tropes in general, where it's like,
22:25
Speaker 1: in so many scenes, Violet is playing the part of
22:29
Speaker 1: like the typical like mobster's girlfriend who you see in
22:32
Speaker 1: the background of scenes but never has any agency and
22:35
Speaker 1: it's always like, oh no, what's happening, And like even
22:38
Speaker 1: he is like Joey Pants is trying to cast her
22:41
Speaker 1: in that role, but she will not be cast in
22:43
Speaker 1: that role. Yeah, it reminded me of the scene where
22:48
Speaker 1: I don't remember the guy's name, but in Double Indemnity,
22:52
Speaker 1: when the guy was like, here's the plan. We're gonna
22:56
Speaker 1: double indemnity his ass, and that's it happens. But then,
23:02
Speaker 1: and in this movie, it's Quirky laying out this whole
23:05
Speaker 1: carefully orchestrated plan. She's in control. It's so great. I
23:08
Speaker 1: love it. So this plan should work with Violet convincing
23:14
Speaker 1: Caesar that Johnny stole the money. It should work because
23:17
Speaker 1: we learned that Johnny is kind of a loose cannon
23:20
Speaker 1: and might do something wild like this, and that Johnny
23:23
Speaker 1: and Caesar hate each other, so it would stand a
23:26
Speaker 1: reason that Johnny would want to funk over Caesar. So
23:30
Speaker 1: with Caesar convinced that Johnny screwed him over and took
23:34
Speaker 1: the money, he will have no choice but to run
23:37
Speaker 1: because otherwise Gino will kill him for stealing his money,
23:41
Speaker 1: and then Caesar running will make him seem guilty, which
23:45
Speaker 1: takes away any suspicion from Violet and Quirky being the culprits.
23:51
Speaker 1: So the plan goes off without a hitch to start,
23:56
Speaker 1: until Violet tries to get away from Caesar. He holds
24:02
Speaker 1: her at gunpoint and won't let her leave because his
24:05
Speaker 1: plan is when Gino and Johnny arrived to collect the money,
24:10
Speaker 1: which is no longer there because Corky came in and
24:13
Speaker 1: stole it, right, Caesar is now going to expose Johnny
24:17
Speaker 1: as a thief to Gino by opening the case and
24:20
Speaker 1: showing him that the money is gone. But when this
24:24
Speaker 1: is happening, things escalate and Caesar ends up shooting and
24:27
Speaker 1: killing Gino and Johnny and some third guy that's there.
24:31
Speaker 1: I dkay, but he kills them. I guess kind of
24:34
Speaker 1: forgetting that the third guy was there, And then every
24:37
Speaker 1: time it cut back to the third guy, I was like, oh, oh,
24:40
Speaker 1: there's another guy. Was he just like? Did he just
24:43
Speaker 1: like hit the cutting room FLOORA? Unfortunately we don't. I
24:46
Speaker 1: don't really know that man, but it really sucks what
24:50
Speaker 1: happened to him, poor unnamed random mobster dude. So Caesar
24:59
Speaker 1: kills all these people, and if he can get rid
25:02
Speaker 1: of the bodies and get the money back, he can
25:04
Speaker 1: pretend like this never happened, basically, But then the cops
25:08
Speaker 1: show up and Violet has to stall them while Caesar
25:12
Speaker 1: hides the bodies and cleans up all the blood. Meanwhile,
25:15
Speaker 1: Quirky is waiting next door while all of this is happening.
25:19
Speaker 1: She's listening through the walls and just kind of like
25:21
Speaker 1: keeping an ear on things. Then Caesar takes Violet and
25:27
Speaker 1: they go to Johnny's place to find the money, which
25:29
Speaker 1: of course he can't because it's not there. So Caesar
25:34
Speaker 1: realizes he has to dump the bodies and run. But
25:38
Speaker 1: then Caesar catches Violet making a call to Quirky, and
25:43
Speaker 1: he figures out that she's next door, and he realizes
25:46
Speaker 1: that something fishy is going on, so he goes over
25:50
Speaker 1: and kidnaps Quirky. He ties her up. She's bound, okay,
25:57
Speaker 1: just like in the beginning of the mood just the
26:00
Speaker 1: us the name of the movie hold on but but
26:02
Speaker 1: also but also it's almost as if Violet and Quirky
26:07
Speaker 1: are bound to each other in like a good way.
26:11
Speaker 1: It makes you think. So Caesar is beating and threatening
26:18
Speaker 1: Quirky and Violet. Quirky reveals that the money is next
26:21
Speaker 1: door in bags, hidden in buckets of paint. Joey buckets
26:25
Speaker 1: of paint, one could even say, um. Then Caesar has
26:30
Speaker 1: that guy Mickey come over so that Caesar can convince
26:34
Speaker 1: him that Gino and Johnny never showed up to buy
26:37
Speaker 1: him some time or something. And then Mickey is about
26:40
Speaker 1: to open the briefcase that is again full of newspapers now,
26:45
Speaker 1: but Violet calls Caesar pretending to be Gino, feeding him
26:49
Speaker 1: lines that Gino was in a car accident. So basically
26:52
Speaker 1: she like saves his ass because she is trying to
26:56
Speaker 1: make a deal with him where they split the money
26:59
Speaker 1: and then walk away. Mickey leaves to go to the
27:03
Speaker 1: hospital where he thinks Gino is and then Caesar goes
27:07
Speaker 1: next door to get the money, leaving Violet a chance
27:10
Speaker 1: to escape, so she's running away. Caesar is chasing after her. Meanwhile,
27:15
Speaker 1: Quirky gets loose from her restraints and goes and grabs
27:20
Speaker 1: the money. Caesar shows back up, there's a scuffle between
27:24
Speaker 1: all of them, and then Violet shoots the ship out
27:28
Speaker 1: of Caesar. He lands in the pain. And now I'm
27:31
Speaker 1: back because it was like, it was honestly helpful for
27:34
Speaker 1: you to like talk me through a lot of the
27:37
Speaker 1: the mafia ins and out of that scene. Because I've
27:41
Speaker 1: seen this movie three times now. At every single time,
27:43
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, okay, okay, okay. When are they going
27:46
Speaker 1: to be back together. Like, I'm just sort of I
27:51
Speaker 1: register that there are various guys, wise guys making various
27:56
Speaker 1: negotiations and shooting and dying, and there's risk and there's tension.
28:02
Speaker 1: But I'm like, okay, but or right, right, right, And
28:08
Speaker 1: you're like, who is the third guy? I like, I
28:11
Speaker 1: understand that there's filmmaking taking place in front of me,
28:13
Speaker 1: but I am just sort of like, when are our
28:17
Speaker 1: gals going? Yes again, we need the gals to get
28:21
Speaker 1: unbound for me to really feel invested in the movie again,
28:26
Speaker 1: and I trust that we will get there. But even
28:29
Speaker 1: the first time watching it, I was like, Okay, I'm
28:31
Speaker 1: not going to remember these characters names. I know everyone's
28:34
Speaker 1: doing a great job, but I need some of these
28:36
Speaker 1: men to die so that I can get to the
28:39
Speaker 1: part that's interesting to me. Sure, so we're back. We're
28:42
Speaker 1: back at the part that's interesting to me. And then
28:44
Speaker 1: we get the big climax where Violet shoots Caesar. He
28:48
Speaker 1: lands in the paint that's been spilled everywhere, his blood
28:51
Speaker 1: is mixing with the paint. It's very cathartic, it's very metaphorical.
28:55
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, the innocence, the color Okay, this is
28:59
Speaker 1: based on several essays I've read. I did not get
29:02
Speaker 1: here on my own. Oh the color o higher day.
29:07
Speaker 1: Oh he's bleeding into her innocence and he never thought
29:11
Speaker 1: and block. You know, there are many writers who contributed
29:14
Speaker 1: to that intelligent comment I just made. I am not
29:16
Speaker 1: one of them. But it was a metaphor. Apparently, this
29:20
Speaker 1: is also how I had to figure out the matrix.
29:22
Speaker 1: I'm like, there were a lot of metaphors in there
29:23
Speaker 1: that were simply above my pay grade, and then when
29:26
Speaker 1: I read them, I was like, huh, that makes sense. Yeah,
29:29
Speaker 1: I know the christ One, and I think it was
29:31
Speaker 1: above the christ one. I can't. Oh yeah, if we're
29:34
Speaker 1: not on just a straightforward hero's journey, I am lost
29:37
Speaker 1: in the woods, honey. And I can accept that about myself.
29:40
Speaker 1: And look, not everyone on Redd. It's gonna like it,
29:42
Speaker 1: and that's fine, um, but in this case, in this case,
29:47
Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, Wichouski is way smarter than me.
29:52
Speaker 1: I read it. It made sense to me, and I
29:54
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I get it. Metaphor, let's get yes.
30:00
Speaker 1: And that's about to happen because Violet and Quirky run
30:04
Speaker 1: off together. Quirky is like, hey, you know what the
30:08
Speaker 1: differences between you and me? And Violets like no, and
30:12
Speaker 1: Quirky is like me either, and then they kiss and
30:16
Speaker 1: drive off and Quirkies nine Chevy truck the it and
30:22
Speaker 1: we're like, hold on a second, did we just get
30:24
Speaker 1: through a whole crime movie without burying a single gay? Unbelievable?
30:32
Speaker 1: And soies, so many bodies, so many bodies, but they're
30:37
Speaker 1: hetero bodies. And I just wanted to quickly shout out
30:43
Speaker 1: before we go to our break, the tagline on the
30:47
Speaker 1: original poster of this movie, which I think it is
30:49
Speaker 1: so beautiful, Sex and Crime Forever. I mean literally me
30:59
Speaker 1: shoplifting at the v as on the way to a
31:01
Speaker 1: one night stand exactly. Yes, I get it. I am
31:05
Speaker 1: also a part of this movement. Okay, let's go to break. Yes,
31:09
Speaker 1: let's take a break. We'll come right back, and we
31:17
Speaker 1: are back Sex and Crime forever? Am I right? Forever? Right?
31:24
Speaker 1: Some of our greatest minds have said it, I might
31:27
Speaker 1: some of our greatest minds ADD departments have said it.
31:31
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get that tattooed on my body. Okay, Yes,
31:35
Speaker 1: where shall we start? Oh man, there's so much, there's
31:38
Speaker 1: so there's so much. I'll just start by saying, this
31:41
Speaker 1: is one of the horny, ist, queerest, and most sex
31:47
Speaker 1: positive movies I've ever seen in my entire life. So
31:53
Speaker 1: have either of you seen sunse eight? No, it's on
31:56
Speaker 1: my list, No I haven't. Haven't gotten to it. Sunset
32:00
Speaker 1: is basically the Wachowski sisters doing this for several seasons
32:04
Speaker 1: with as many different bodies as possible because they found
32:08
Speaker 1: a way to do how do I make They did
32:11
Speaker 1: a mind orgy. Um sounds like the sounds like them
32:16
Speaker 1: like eight people connecting mentally, all having a mental line
32:21
Speaker 1: orgy that all not at the same time. Sisters are very,
32:25
Speaker 1: very horny, but also they love anime, they love a Kira,
32:30
Speaker 1: they love ghost in Michell. So what you get is
32:33
Speaker 1: this mix of like hyper stylized, gleeful sex scenes shot
32:39
Speaker 1: like it's an action movie and makes me so happy.
32:45
Speaker 1: Abound are the two properties in which they're just like,
32:48
Speaker 1: everyone should be fucking. This is our message, this is
32:51
Speaker 1: our credence. Everyone should be fucking. Oh and it works
32:55
Speaker 1: and they do it so well because right this is like,
32:57
Speaker 1: this is a very horny movie. It's a very queer movie,
33:00
Speaker 1: it's a very sex positive movie, and it's also about
33:02
Speaker 1: two women being absolutely badasses in a way that feels
33:06
Speaker 1: extremely earned, in a way that fucking rules, in a
33:09
Speaker 1: way that like, this is a movie about two queer women,
33:13
Speaker 1: one who needs to get out of a toxic situation
33:16
Speaker 1: she's trapped in because of a man, and they help
33:20
Speaker 1: each other out and they trust each other and they
33:22
Speaker 1: lift each other up and they run away together and
33:25
Speaker 1: it's a happy, uplifting ending and fucking rocks. Something I
33:30
Speaker 1: really love about this movie is how much they made
33:34
Speaker 1: manipulation kind of like a one to you punch in
33:39
Speaker 1: these women's tool belts in a way that isn't usually
33:42
Speaker 1: viewed in a certain type of way in Hollywood. And
33:46
Speaker 1: this isn't me going like manipulation good. But the thing
33:48
Speaker 1: is when you live on the fringes of site, you
33:51
Speaker 1: get very good at one thing, and that's looking at
33:53
Speaker 1: society and figuring out how it works. And when you
33:56
Speaker 1: don't have any power, that's kind of the thing that
33:59
Speaker 1: you learn how to operate with. Like there's always that
34:03
Speaker 1: quote that I was like, oh, well, if the man
34:05
Speaker 1: is ahead of the household, the women over the neck.
34:07
Speaker 1: But like they take this thing that was imposed on them,
34:10
Speaker 1: and then that's the thing that they free themselves with.
34:12
Speaker 1: And usually when manipulation is porderating women, it's like they're
34:15
Speaker 1: going to be extra punished for this, like they're going
34:18
Speaker 1: to be extra hurt for this, or like, no matter what,
34:22
Speaker 1: even if they're escaping something, there's still a villain. And
34:25
Speaker 1: in this it's like this is a skill that they
34:27
Speaker 1: developed based on the positions that they were put in as,
34:30
Speaker 1: like a sex worker and a lesbian. They know how
34:33
Speaker 1: society works because they're constantly watching it from outside in
34:37
Speaker 1: and hearing people operate, thinking that they're not listening. And
34:41
Speaker 1: this is like the knife they cut through that with I.
34:46
Speaker 1: It is like I speaking to like what what you're
34:49
Speaker 1: It's like they're using societal like a an acute knowledge
34:54
Speaker 1: of what society is like because they've been subjected to
34:57
Speaker 1: so much to manipulate like what people expect from them,
35:02
Speaker 1: and I feel like inviolate that comes and and the
35:05
Speaker 1: fact that the Witch house Kies use that and also
35:08
Speaker 1: are able to subvert so many specifically film noir tropes
35:12
Speaker 1: in the process of doing that is so brilliant because
35:16
Speaker 1: it's not just speaking to queer tropes of the nineties,
35:20
Speaker 1: even though so many queer tropes of the nineties and
35:23
Speaker 1: even now are I sound like a fucking radio station?
35:26
Speaker 1: So many queer tropes of the nineties, auts and today
35:30
Speaker 1: are subverted inside of this movie, but it's also like
35:32
Speaker 1: done within the even more specific you know, It's like
35:36
Speaker 1: with Violet, you have so many fem fatale tropes that
35:39
Speaker 1: are subverted while also making commentary on how queer women
35:44
Speaker 1: are perceived or or fem women specifically are perceived, And
35:48
Speaker 1: then through Quirky, you have how butch women are perceived,
35:52
Speaker 1: where immediately when Joey Pants comes in, he does not
35:56
Speaker 1: perceive Quirky as the threat to his relationship that she
36:00
Speaker 1: very much is. And all of these like ways that
36:04
Speaker 1: Quirky and Violet are able to turn people's assumptions about
36:10
Speaker 1: them that are based in either you know, bigotry or
36:15
Speaker 1: naivete or somewhere in between. They're able to just levy
36:20
Speaker 1: it against them to get what they want, which is
36:24
Speaker 1: essentially liberation from this entire situation, and then they win.
36:29
Speaker 1: It's just it's awesome, Yeah, And the subversions come from
36:33
Speaker 1: like everywhere, because like you even have Quirky fucking up
36:37
Speaker 1: at a certain point when it comes to like Violet
36:39
Speaker 1: sex work, and like she gets a little bit like,
36:42
Speaker 1: you know, sullen about it and implies, you know that
36:45
Speaker 1: Violet might like have her like heart into her in
36:48
Speaker 1: some way, and Violet very much applying like you have
36:52
Speaker 1: a job and so do I, and like you don't
36:55
Speaker 1: get to act holier than that with me about this.
36:58
Speaker 1: And I love that moment was even there and that
37:01
Speaker 1: they had that moment together. To her, Violet could like
37:04
Speaker 1: very safely and tell someone like you don't understand what
37:08
Speaker 1: this is about, and you're talking out of your ass
37:10
Speaker 1: right now. And the fact that Quirky is able to
37:13
Speaker 1: like receive that criticism and course correct too, because that's
37:17
Speaker 1: something that I feel like if you put that same
37:21
Speaker 1: scenario in a heatera relationship which we don't even need
37:24
Speaker 1: to go down that road really, but but just the
37:27
Speaker 1: idea that they have enough respect for each other that
37:32
Speaker 1: when Violet pushes back and it's like, no, that's not me,
37:36
Speaker 1: and you are making assumptions about me that are not correct,
37:40
Speaker 1: Like Quirky listens to that, and it does like take
37:44
Speaker 1: her a little bit to internalize it, but she internalizes it,
37:49
Speaker 1: and then she like begins to see Violet as the
37:51
Speaker 1: fuller person that she is and like the more complicated
37:55
Speaker 1: person that she is, And I feel like that kind
37:56
Speaker 1: of goes both ways, where there's this trust between them
38:01
Speaker 1: that is established pretty early in the movie that is like,
38:06
Speaker 1: you know, because I mean even in any relationship, like
38:10
Speaker 1: being able to say to someone like I understand why
38:14
Speaker 1: you're making that assumption about me, but you're fucking wrong,
38:17
Speaker 1: and like listen to me, and to have the other
38:20
Speaker 1: person hear you and understand that, like that is such
38:24
Speaker 1: a powerful bond in any relationship. And to see that
38:27
Speaker 1: like established between the two of them is so awesome
38:30
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, of course I want these two together,
38:33
Speaker 1: Like yeah, this is like a rare example of a
38:39
Speaker 1: movie where it centers on a romantic relationship that I
38:45
Speaker 1: am rooting for and that like I understand why, like
38:50
Speaker 1: like trust being such a through line, and when they're
38:54
Speaker 1: on opposite sides of the wall, you're just like, oh
38:57
Speaker 1: my god, fuck me up. Just so good And how
39:02
Speaker 1: much of the plant hinges on being like I need
39:05
Speaker 1: to I just have to trust that you're not gonna
39:07
Speaker 1: hurt me. Yeah, right, And they do it, and then
39:09
Speaker 1: they both in a way that like again is very
39:12
Speaker 1: much just a version of film noir, neo noir, the
39:16
Speaker 1: whole fem fatale thing. I think this movie does something
39:18
Speaker 1: really interesting and that both characters are presented as like,
39:23
Speaker 1: you know, you're familiar with this fem fatale trope. Maybe
39:26
Speaker 1: here's two fem faytales, and maybe you don't know which
39:29
Speaker 1: one's which, and maybe maybe it's both, but it ends
39:32
Speaker 1: up being neither because neither of them are untrustworthy. Neither
39:37
Speaker 1: of them are like these like scheming seductresses. They are
39:42
Speaker 1: like mutually into each other and like not what's the
39:47
Speaker 1: deceiving each other. I would argue that like, in some ways,
39:51
Speaker 1: Violent fulfills the fem fatale trope as we know it,
39:55
Speaker 1: because she does turn on quote unquote the man she's with,
40:00
Speaker 1: she turns on Caesar. But like there's a whole like
40:03
Speaker 1: so I feel like it's like four D chest that
40:06
Speaker 1: we get a treat into here, because in some ways,
40:10
Speaker 1: as Violet is presented, she does kind of tick most
40:14
Speaker 1: of the boxes of the fim fatale trope. She is
40:17
Speaker 1: lying to the character who Caesar traditionally in a film noir,
40:23
Speaker 1: is robbing him. She is she's robbing him. She is
40:26
Speaker 1: lying to him, she turns on him and she kills him.
40:31
Speaker 1: But unlike every film noir we've seen, Caesar is not
40:35
Speaker 1: the protagonist and he is not the person we're rooting for.
40:39
Speaker 1: And I mean it's like it's it's not even that
40:42
Speaker 1: we don't totally give a ship when he died, because
40:45
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I didn't feel nothing when Caesar died,
40:47
Speaker 1: and we can get to this where it's like, I
40:49
Speaker 1: feel like Caesar's character addresses film noir and like Mafio
40:55
Speaker 1: so masculinity in a way that I thought was pretty effective.
41:00
Speaker 1: So it wasn't that I felt nothing when he died,
41:01
Speaker 1: But it was just like from the very beginning, you know,
41:05
Speaker 1: when Caesar's on screen, we're not getting that upright base baby,
41:09
Speaker 1: Like we're not rooting for him. We're rooting for Quirky
41:12
Speaker 1: and Violet and them as individuals and also for their love,
41:17
Speaker 1: which I also feel like it's so rare in any movie,
41:19
Speaker 1: Like you're rooting for them as two individuals and then
41:23
Speaker 1: you're also rooting for them as a couple. That really
41:25
Speaker 1: really works. Yeah, it's all about the framing and how
41:31
Speaker 1: this movie frames things very differently than we're used to
41:34
Speaker 1: in a very cool, refreshing way. We're talking about this
41:39
Speaker 1: scene in which Quirky, I feel like, exemplifies an attitude
41:46
Speaker 1: that was very common in the nineties and before and
41:51
Speaker 1: after for a number of years. The movie doesn't come
41:55
Speaker 1: right out and say it, but it's sort of this
41:57
Speaker 1: idea about like, oh, pick at sane, what is this
42:01
Speaker 1: whole bisexuality thing. If you're having sex with men, you're
42:05
Speaker 1: a traitor. You're not a real lesbian because you're out
42:08
Speaker 1: here having sex with men. Violet immediately challenges that in
42:12
Speaker 1: a way that I found very unexpected for a character
42:16
Speaker 1: to challenge that mentality in a movie from the nineties,
42:21
Speaker 1: and she's like, look, I know who I am. I
42:23
Speaker 1: don't need to have a tattooed on my arm. Also,
42:26
Speaker 1: what I'm doing is work. Is just work. And this
42:30
Speaker 1: is also one of the very few movies I've seen
42:33
Speaker 1: that makes a statement about sex work being work and
42:38
Speaker 1: that right, because Violet's like, well, I heard you having
42:43
Speaker 1: sex with Shelley, and she's like, that wasn't sex, that
42:47
Speaker 1: was me working. Even the tattoo mark is like, yeah,
42:51
Speaker 1: I'm them, I'm still a lesbian, like which in nine
42:55
Speaker 1: like it's is like why yield and even in two
43:02
Speaker 1: you you still get like that clarity you don't get
43:06
Speaker 1: very often. Yeah. So there's a scene where Violet gets
43:11
Speaker 1: into Quirky's truck. I love any scene in the truck.
43:15
Speaker 1: Um she gets in, She's like, I want to apologize,
43:19
Speaker 1: and Quirky is like, one thing I can't stand is
43:21
Speaker 1: women apologizing for wanting sex and violence, Like, I'm not
43:25
Speaker 1: apologizing for that. I'm not apologizing for what I did
43:29
Speaker 1: because this is like after they like finger backing each other. Um. Yeah,
43:32
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm apologizing for what I didn't do. And
43:36
Speaker 1: it's and we're like, it's like this like incredibly sex
43:42
Speaker 1: positive moment in this movie from and I just I like,
43:48
Speaker 1: I kept being so floored by different interactions and different
43:52
Speaker 1: scenarios that happened in this movie because I was like,
43:55
Speaker 1: this is this is so cool? Um. And we had
43:59
Speaker 1: brought up Susie Bright as being the choreographer of the
44:03
Speaker 1: sex scenes in this movie. So the way that kind
44:05
Speaker 1: of panned out is that the Wachowski sisters sent Susie
44:09
Speaker 1: Bright the script and was basically like, we want you
44:14
Speaker 1: to play a cameo in this or like be an
44:16
Speaker 1: extra in this. Are you interested, and Susie Bright loved
44:20
Speaker 1: the script partly because it was about women who just like,
44:24
Speaker 1: we're extremely unapologetic about having sex and enjoying sex, specifically
44:30
Speaker 1: with each other. But she was like, but there isn't
44:33
Speaker 1: enough like description in these sex scenes, like I can't
44:36
Speaker 1: visualize what they would look like. So then she offered
44:39
Speaker 1: to be the like consultant for the film, and then
44:44
Speaker 1: they hired her to like be the choreographer, and she's
44:49
Speaker 1: like a was already like a feminist sex educator, so
44:53
Speaker 1: she got brought on to choreograph the sex scenes, which
44:57
Speaker 1: is why they are extremely horny, but also like very
45:01
Speaker 1: tasteful and like non exploitative, which is something that we've
45:05
Speaker 1: come upon in various sex scenes between women, like blue
45:11
Speaker 1: was the warmest color, exactly, yes, And it's like, I mean,
45:15
Speaker 1: in general, even the concept of an intimacy consultant in
45:21
Speaker 1: a roman scene between any people was just like not
45:26
Speaker 1: something that was done. And I feel like we've covered
45:29
Speaker 1: on this show. Unfortunately so many at least extreme actor
45:35
Speaker 1: discomfort and at worst like crimes and like crimes and
45:41
Speaker 1: misdemeanors sex and crimes as well. Uh, but not forever.
45:47
Speaker 1: Don't do it, but yeah, of actors who were made
45:50
Speaker 1: to feel very uncomfortable in sex scenes in movies because
45:55
Speaker 1: you know, any director of intimacy was not appointed in
45:59
Speaker 1: order to make the movie. And so the fact that
46:00
Speaker 1: like the Wachowskis had a not just an intimacy um coordinator,
46:06
Speaker 1: but someone who is very enthusiastic about their work, someone
46:08
Speaker 1: who was like really down to be involved. Like again
46:11
Speaker 1: just a very ahead of its time. Like even ten
46:15
Speaker 1: years ago, if you asked me about what an intimacy
46:17
Speaker 1: coordinator was, I could not tell you. I would not
46:20
Speaker 1: have known. Yeah, And like even on my end, I've
46:23
Speaker 1: done like a few sketches and things where I like
46:26
Speaker 1: have a piece of comedy where I'm like making out
46:29
Speaker 1: with someone, or i have like a simulated sex scene
46:31
Speaker 1: and it's it's comedy. It's like being played for comedy.
46:34
Speaker 1: But even then I have somebody like touching me in
46:38
Speaker 1: a way that I'm like not used to because in general,
46:42
Speaker 1: I'm like, even like I hug you if I know you,
46:45
Speaker 1: so I tend to keep like an arms reach kind
46:47
Speaker 1: of person. And there's this like assumed comfort that's supposed
46:52
Speaker 1: to be there, and when there isn't there isn't really that,
46:55
Speaker 1: Like nobody really has the words for like, yo, can
46:58
Speaker 1: we like slow this down and talk about how we're
47:00
Speaker 1: about to make out? It's weird, like and it's one
47:04
Speaker 1: of those where you don't really think about it in
47:06
Speaker 1: like a comedy aspect until you're in it and you're like,
47:10
Speaker 1: why isn't there something for all of this? Like even
47:13
Speaker 1: if it wasn't sex, just having somebody like up on me,
47:16
Speaker 1: it would just be really nice to be able to
47:19
Speaker 1: talk about this with someone. And when you read, there's
47:22
Speaker 1: this incredible interview where Gina Grashawn and Jennifer Tilly are
47:25
Speaker 1: talking years later and they're like verbally palling at each other.
47:28
Speaker 1: It's fantastic, highly recommend reading at it. But they talked
47:32
Speaker 1: about that sex scene and they're like, shooting with the
47:34
Speaker 1: Wachowskis in that moment, it was more like sports than sex.
47:39
Speaker 1: They're like zero percent felt like sex because they were
47:42
Speaker 1: moving around us being like boob up here, hand here,
47:46
Speaker 1: moved this way, shift this way up towards a light
47:48
Speaker 1: please Like They're like it was so clinical. Yes, they
47:53
Speaker 1: were like choreograph almost like it was a fight scene,
47:57
Speaker 1: to the point where they were like we were worked
48:00
Speaker 1: like there was nothing for me about it. We were
48:03
Speaker 1: just at work following these like directions with like a
48:07
Speaker 1: team that had making sure it looked good in our
48:10
Speaker 1: well beings and mine. We would never know that because
48:15
Speaker 1: it's so horny. Yeah, like it's it really is, like
48:19
Speaker 1: just I feel and and and it was so nice
48:22
Speaker 1: to read interviews with the actors at the time and
48:25
Speaker 1: years later speaking to how comfortable they were because as
48:29
Speaker 1: far as we know, I mean, these are two straight women.
48:33
Speaker 1: I haven't read otherwise. I don't want to put them
48:36
Speaker 1: in a box. But that's what I you know, what
48:38
Speaker 1: I know of them. And and for you know, actors
48:41
Speaker 1: to be acting, you know, technically outside of their comfort
48:44
Speaker 1: zone in a way that they were made to feel
48:47
Speaker 1: safe and it's authentic, And there was a consultant involved,
48:52
Speaker 1: and the consultant involved happens to be an iconic feminist socialist,
48:58
Speaker 1: Like I just don't know what I would be more
49:00
Speaker 1: on board with, right, Yeah, Susie right, so cool. And
49:05
Speaker 1: she also has a really fun cameo in the movie
49:07
Speaker 1: as well, and that incredible bar yes, like she and
49:12
Speaker 1: she and I feel like she really owned the part too.
49:14
Speaker 1: I would not have guessed that she was not a
49:18
Speaker 1: not an actor by trade. I was like, Oh, you're
49:21
Speaker 1: a genius by trade. You're an actor on the side,
49:23
Speaker 1: but for you, so shout out to Susie, right, And yeah,
49:30
Speaker 1: that was just like generally so awesome. There was one
49:33
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to touch on before we totally went
49:36
Speaker 1: out of Film Noir, where I was curious what the
49:40
Speaker 1: two of you thought about this. But I felt like,
49:43
Speaker 1: in the world of film Noir, Jennifer Tilly is playing
49:47
Speaker 1: on the trope of fatal and it almost seems like
49:50
Speaker 1: Quirky is playing on the trope of detective. I feel
49:54
Speaker 1: like we're given a few different indications that that might
49:57
Speaker 1: be the case. First of all, because she's constantly listen
50:00
Speaker 1: through walls, um she she has a unique trade that
50:05
Speaker 1: causes her to show up places constantly. Its lock she
50:09
Speaker 1: picks locks. She has a criminal background. We know that
50:13
Speaker 1: she has been you know, in prison for five years
50:16
Speaker 1: prior to the movie beginning for quote the Redistribution of Wealth,
50:22
Speaker 1: And you're like, okay, Susie bred I see you in there.
50:27
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, there's also I felt
50:29
Speaker 1: very film no Wiry that she had had like a
50:33
Speaker 1: partner slash lover who had burned her in the past.
50:36
Speaker 1: Like it all felt very corky as playing on who
50:40
Speaker 1: we would traditionally see as the film noir protagonist played
50:45
Speaker 1: on in her character. It's so much Gina Gershawn's intention
50:49
Speaker 1: as well. It's so much what Gina Gershawn wanted to
50:52
Speaker 1: bring to that character. Because I'm not sure if you'll
50:54
Speaker 1: know this, but Gina Gershwan fired her management team because
50:58
Speaker 1: they didn't want her to do this movie. I did
51:00
Speaker 1: not know that. WHOA, that's amazing. Her Asians were like,
51:04
Speaker 1: do not do this movie. It will tank. You will
51:06
Speaker 1: never work again, and she was like, I will never
51:08
Speaker 1: get another part like this. I will never get another
51:11
Speaker 1: part like this because she read it. She was like,
51:14
Speaker 1: she was like, this is my chance to watch a
51:17
Speaker 1: bunch of Marlon Brando, to watch a bunch of James Dean.
51:20
Speaker 1: I think she said. Clint Eastwood was her other one,
51:22
Speaker 1: and she watched like every brooding, mysterious leading man movie
51:27
Speaker 1: and was like, I'm just doing that. And before sex scenes,
51:30
Speaker 1: she would just do push ups to try and make
51:33
Speaker 1: her arms looked as ripped as possible or like anything.
51:38
Speaker 1: She would like just start like working out right before
51:41
Speaker 1: that because she wanted her forearms so look super muscly.
51:44
Speaker 1: Like she saw the script and was like, I will
51:47
Speaker 1: never have an opportunity to be the hot leading guy ever. Again.
51:52
Speaker 1: I love that, and she's right like parts for women,
51:55
Speaker 1: especially in this era, were rarely the protagonist or co
51:58
Speaker 1: protagonist of the movie. They were rarely this badass or
52:03
Speaker 1: nuanced or thoughtfully written. And it's wild because there were
52:08
Speaker 1: very few female actors interested in these two characters of
52:12
Speaker 1: Violet and Quirky, seemingly because they're queer characters, and it's
52:17
Speaker 1: very few. I don't know who was up for the
52:19
Speaker 1: partys of her. Linda Hamilton's was originally considered, and then
52:23
Speaker 1: another Beauty and the Beasts, but I don't I can't
52:29
Speaker 1: remember what I read about why she didn't end up
52:31
Speaker 1: playing Quirky, But I think it was more logistical and
52:35
Speaker 1: it was not like it wasn't like a moral objection
52:38
Speaker 1: kind of right, right, but um, yeah it was. It
52:41
Speaker 1: was not that many people interested in these roles. But yeah,
52:44
Speaker 1: Gina Gershawn jumped at the chance to be in this movie,
52:47
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad you did because I freaking love
52:50
Speaker 1: her as Quirky. I have a good quote from Jennifer
52:53
Speaker 1: Tilly to this fact where she was talking about sort
52:58
Speaker 1: of exactly what you're talking about, how she was aware
53:00
Speaker 1: that many actors had refused these parts and was like
53:05
Speaker 1: kind of confused at it. And I think Jennifer Tilly
53:08
Speaker 1: is like history prior to this movie is also relevant
53:12
Speaker 1: to this because kind of what you were saying, Vanessa,
53:15
Speaker 1: where it was like, you know, Gina Gershawn was well
53:17
Speaker 1: aware that like parts like this don't come around every
53:20
Speaker 1: day for anybody, especially women, where it's like you get
53:25
Speaker 1: to be the fucking film noar action hero that also
53:29
Speaker 1: gets to kiss and fuck, like are you kidding me?
53:32
Speaker 1: Where Jennifer Tilly had been very successful up to this point,
53:35
Speaker 1: but she's been super typecast as kind of like an
53:38
Speaker 1: airhead kind of character a lot because of her voice,
53:42
Speaker 1: and so it was like this was her opportunity to
53:44
Speaker 1: play you know too, I mean, and she had been
53:46
Speaker 1: I think she'd been nominated for and possibly one an Oscar,
53:51
Speaker 1: which or no, she was nominated for an Oscar in
53:55
Speaker 1: so like she was a proven actress but was typecast
53:58
Speaker 1: quite a bit because of how she and how she sounded.
54:01
Speaker 1: So she said this when she was cast in Bound.
54:04
Speaker 1: She said, after I got the part the way said
54:07
Speaker 1: to me, you would not believe how many actresses refused
54:10
Speaker 1: to come in and read for this. I was really
54:11
Speaker 1: surprised at that, because actresses in Hollywood are always bishing
54:14
Speaker 1: and moaning about how there are no great parts for women,
54:17
Speaker 1: and here's two really strong female roles. To me, it
54:20
Speaker 1: just seems silly. And then she goes on to say,
54:24
Speaker 1: I mean, and this is very nineties. But when she
54:27
Speaker 1: found out that she was playing it by woman, she
54:29
Speaker 1: started reading out magazine. Sure, um, Jennifer, I know, we
54:36
Speaker 1: love her. And then she said, one of my pet
54:38
Speaker 1: peeves about mainstream films where they have a gay relationship
54:42
Speaker 1: is that people think they're being amazingly liberal. They say, well,
54:45
Speaker 1: we'll have these gay characters, but they can't touch, they
54:48
Speaker 1: can't show any affection or kiss each other or have
54:50
Speaker 1: any sex scenes like they would just naturally with the
54:52
Speaker 1: heterosexual relationship. I just feel like that's a cop out.
54:56
Speaker 1: We felt it was very important not to shy away
54:58
Speaker 1: from it and to be very matter of fact about it.
55:00
Speaker 1: That's what's cool about the film. I know. Um. She
55:06
Speaker 1: said that in the damn nineties, an icon, Uh let's
55:10
Speaker 1: take another quick break and we will come right back.
55:19
Speaker 1: We're back, and I wanted to talk about the stories
55:22
Speaker 1: conception the Witch House Keys. This is from an interview
55:27
Speaker 1: I think shortly after the movie was made or released,
55:32
Speaker 1: But um, they were just speaking to how there weren't
55:36
Speaker 1: enough good female parts in movies in Hollywood, so they
55:40
Speaker 1: decided to write two good female parts. Uh. And they
55:44
Speaker 1: also spoke to how they wanted to write a film
55:46
Speaker 1: noir with a woman as a protagonist and have a
55:50
Speaker 1: sexy woman but have her not be evil. I'm paraphrasing
55:54
Speaker 1: this interview, but their intention with this movie was like,
55:57
Speaker 1: let's subvert film noir t hopes. Let's make a point
56:03
Speaker 1: to like meaningfully include women in the story as protagonists
56:07
Speaker 1: and like have them drive the narrative. Not surprisingly, studio
56:13
Speaker 1: executives read the script and they were like, Um, we'd
56:16
Speaker 1: be interested in this if Corky was a man, if
56:20
Speaker 1: you like change that character to be a man, and
56:24
Speaker 1: the wow Skis were like, No, that movie already exists
56:28
Speaker 1: a million times, so we're not interested in doing that
56:32
Speaker 1: has and the rest is history, the history. It's the best,
56:38
Speaker 1: so good. It brings me such joy. I've never on
56:42
Speaker 1: every rewatch, I keep finding a new reason that it
56:47
Speaker 1: makes me so happy, whether it be like the cinematography,
56:51
Speaker 1: the storytelling, the crazy camera on screen, but that really
56:56
Speaker 1: is just like a fantastic neo no are It's just
56:59
Speaker 1: a real like it's it's so obvious that their inspiration
57:03
Speaker 1: was Sin City, but they made something better than Sin
57:06
Speaker 1: City because Frank Miller's brain isn't behind it exactly. So
57:13
Speaker 1: many things I love. I love the scene where it
57:15
Speaker 1: is towards the end Caesar is suggesting the quirky and
57:19
Speaker 1: her like lesbian feminine wiles corrupted Violet. He's like, what
57:26
Speaker 1: did she do to you? And Violet is like everything
57:30
Speaker 1: you couldn't ak make her come, come and like and
57:36
Speaker 1: treat her well. Oh my god. The fact that she
57:38
Speaker 1: shakes his hand with a violet all over her fingers,
57:43
Speaker 1: I reamed the first time I saw that. It's very special.
57:48
Speaker 1: Everything about this movie is very special. I wanted to
57:52
Speaker 1: also talk about a little bit about how Caesar's character
57:57
Speaker 1: does kind of challenge a lot of I mean, not
58:01
Speaker 1: quite as like film noir trophy, but in general just
58:05
Speaker 1: like Mafia masculinity and just like intense like tank top masculinity,
58:12
Speaker 1: kind of vibes where we constantly see that I don't
58:18
Speaker 1: even doubt that Caesar cares about Violet. I do think
58:23
Speaker 1: he does, but he is so like trapped in so
58:28
Speaker 1: many things. He's like trapped within masculinity, but he's also
58:31
Speaker 1: trapped within his profession. He's trapped within his class. He's
58:36
Speaker 1: trapped in like all these different things that results in
58:39
Speaker 1: him mistreating her spectacularly, and he doesn't. I don't know.
58:44
Speaker 1: I feel I feel like it's we've talked about this
58:47
Speaker 1: a million times on this show, where it's like patriarchy
58:50
Speaker 1: as one guy and then if you get I mean,
58:54
Speaker 1: this is like most Marvel movies where you're like, patriarchy
58:58
Speaker 1: is one guy, and if you kill the guy, or
59:01
Speaker 1: if you teach the one guy that he was wrong
59:03
Speaker 1: the whole time, then everything right. It's like, how oh
59:07
Speaker 1: my god, it's this is a separate right. But it's
59:10
Speaker 1: like how Benedict comber Badge is wandering around the most
59:12
Speaker 1: recent Doctor Strange movie like America, like and I couldn't
59:19
Speaker 1: stop laughing. That is the name of a character in
59:22
Speaker 1: the movie. But it's also the worst metaphor I've ever
59:24
Speaker 1: heard in my life. He's like, we have to save America.
59:27
Speaker 1: I know it's cannon, but it's silly anyways. But in
59:31
Speaker 1: this case, there's a lot more I think like thought
59:35
Speaker 1: portrayed and how like Caesar is trying to, you know,
59:40
Speaker 1: enact his masculinity over Violet, but she is not accepting it,
59:45
Speaker 1: which is huge in itself. And also like he is desperate.
59:50
Speaker 1: We see him desperate in so many places, to the
59:53
Speaker 1: point where he sort of starts to dissociate from the
59:56
Speaker 1: situation and becomes violent because as he's in such a
1:00:01
Speaker 1: desperate place, he is not the center of attention here
1:00:05
Speaker 1: by any means, nor should he be. But I thought
1:00:07
Speaker 1: Joey Pants did a good job at kind of demonstrating
1:00:12
Speaker 1: that desperate masculinity of like he just needs to have
1:00:16
Speaker 1: control over something or someone, and so when he feels
1:00:23
Speaker 1: that Violet is the most viable person to be controlled,
1:00:27
Speaker 1: he will treat her very badly. When he feels comfortable
1:00:31
Speaker 1: within his profession, his masculinity, his finances, everything else, he
1:00:35
Speaker 1: will treat her fine. And I feel like that is
1:00:38
Speaker 1: something that you, like, you don't often see like shown
1:00:42
Speaker 1: this clearly in a character, because this feels more like
1:00:45
Speaker 1: a guy that even though it's a joey Pants character
1:00:48
Speaker 1: to its core. It also feels sort of like a
1:00:53
Speaker 1: guy that you would know where in some circumstances, when
1:00:56
Speaker 1: he's comfortable, he'll be the nicest guy in the world.
1:00:59
Speaker 1: But when he is when there's a little bit of
1:01:01
Speaker 1: pressure put on him, he becomes a fucking monster. It's
1:01:05
Speaker 1: a compelling character to watch for all of those reasons,
1:01:08
Speaker 1: and that like you're literally watching somebody get get that
1:01:13
Speaker 1: like squeeze of being in a prison of their own making.
1:01:17
Speaker 1: Like every horrible thing that happens to him, he's asking
1:01:21
Speaker 1: who did it? And the answer is him every single time,
1:01:26
Speaker 1: Like nothing happens to him is really dumb. It's him,
1:01:30
Speaker 1: like Violet, not just him in that direction, but it
1:01:33
Speaker 1: is always him. It's because she knows he's going to
1:01:35
Speaker 1: be a ship head and he plays into it. That
1:01:38
Speaker 1: scene where he's like, you made me shoot them, You
1:01:41
Speaker 1: made me shoot my mob boss and his and Christopher
1:01:45
Speaker 1: Maloney and she's like, I didn't make you do that
1:01:48
Speaker 1: at all. I did not make you shoot Spu, babe.
1:01:53
Speaker 1: I didn't. Oh God, look, we don't have time for
1:01:58
Speaker 1: Spu today. That's another day. But but shout out to
1:02:02
Speaker 1: my role as an extra in an episode of I
1:02:05
Speaker 1: think season ten of On Orders for you. Really, you've
1:02:10
Speaker 1: ever told that story on the show. Oh my gosh. Well,
1:02:13
Speaker 1: I'll figure out what episode it is and then I
1:02:15
Speaker 1: will put it in the description of the episode, because
1:02:18
Speaker 1: I definitely want to see it. I do walk past
1:02:21
Speaker 1: the camera multiple times. Was this a Boston thing? Wait,
1:02:24
Speaker 1: I'm starting to It was when I lived in New York.
1:02:26
Speaker 1: They were shooting on a very narrow street and there
1:02:30
Speaker 1: was a take where the like, the sidewalk was so
1:02:32
Speaker 1: narrow that I accidentally like shoulder checked Merska Hargeta when
1:02:36
Speaker 1: I was walking past her. For some reason, they didn't
1:02:38
Speaker 1: use that take. Rude, but what but that's do you
1:02:44
Speaker 1: remember not to play into complaganda? What was the crime
1:02:49
Speaker 1: of the week? Um? Okay. It was about a woman
1:02:52
Speaker 1: who escapes from having been like trapped in a room
1:02:56
Speaker 1: allah the movie room. So then she's like trying to
1:03:00
Speaker 1: retrace her steps with Christopher Maloney and Mersca harget Day.
1:03:04
Speaker 1: I don't really know the character's names, and then it
1:03:07
Speaker 1: turns out she might be lying about this, but it's
1:03:10
Speaker 1: that was the premise of the episode. Anyway, Does anybody
1:03:14
Speaker 1: let's go get back to bound because that was were
1:03:17
Speaker 1: my fifteen minutes of fame and they're up now, well
1:03:20
Speaker 1: please screenshot we I I will take the lead on
1:03:22
Speaker 1: screenshotting if need be. So yeah, I I liked. Something
1:03:27
Speaker 1: I like to find out about the production of this
1:03:29
Speaker 1: movie is that it was financed through very like kind
1:03:32
Speaker 1: of traditional surprisingly traditional means for a movie that spotlights
1:03:36
Speaker 1: a queer couple. It was financed by Dino de Laurentis,
1:03:41
Speaker 1: who is like a famous Italian filmmaker, very very famous,
1:03:47
Speaker 1: not necessarily the guy that you would expect to be
1:03:50
Speaker 1: financing a queer movie, definitely the guy you would expect
1:03:53
Speaker 1: to be financing a mafia movies. So maybe the witch
1:03:55
Speaker 1: House k is just really gamed with the system. And
1:03:58
Speaker 1: also spelling films, um Aaron Spelling, like huge name in
1:04:02
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties TV production that you also wouldn't expect
1:04:06
Speaker 1: such uh And with all due respect to spelling industries,
1:04:10
Speaker 1: because I've consumed much of your content, but you know,
1:04:14
Speaker 1: not known for the not known for the intellect or
1:04:19
Speaker 1: taste perhaps, And so I thought it was cool that
1:04:22
Speaker 1: to such mainstream institutions financed such a subversive But also
1:04:27
Speaker 1: I mean, like we've been saying this whole time such
1:04:30
Speaker 1: and it makes sense that you would want to finance
1:04:33
Speaker 1: such an effective noir movie. And this was also, I
1:04:37
Speaker 1: feel like the nineties in the early two thousands there
1:04:39
Speaker 1: was kind of a good moment for neo noir, and
1:04:42
Speaker 1: so I thought that this came when it did. You
1:04:45
Speaker 1: saw it in so many different mediums, but almost every
1:04:48
Speaker 1: single time it was and here was the thing. I
1:04:51
Speaker 1: even like liked iterations of this, And as I grow older,
1:04:54
Speaker 1: I would examine it and I'm like, ouch, that hurts.
1:04:57
Speaker 1: Uh where it almost always starts with like a dead
1:04:59
Speaker 1: girl all friend, or a dead dame, or like some
1:05:04
Speaker 1: woman that we never meet that's dead before she's even
1:05:07
Speaker 1: like on screen, and in this case, even the off
1:05:11
Speaker 1: screen woman is like some asshole that's richer, Like right,
1:05:17
Speaker 1: she's not talked me over. Yeah, Like we didn't need
1:05:21
Speaker 1: to fridge anyone for the plot to begin. We didn't
1:05:24
Speaker 1: need to like there, there's just so many very obvious
1:05:27
Speaker 1: no our troops that are not included in this movie,
1:05:31
Speaker 1: and it's so well written. And also like I mean,
1:05:35
Speaker 1: we don't often talk about like a ton of visual
1:05:38
Speaker 1: choices on this show, but it's also just really cool
1:05:41
Speaker 1: to see the witch how skis in their bag pre Matrix,
1:05:45
Speaker 1: where like the action scenes I don't care about any
1:05:49
Speaker 1: of the characters and the Mafia shooting scenes, but they
1:05:52
Speaker 1: look fucking awesome and it looks like a witch Howski's
1:05:56
Speaker 1: action scene and it's very exciting to see and so
1:06:00
Speaker 1: like I don't know where I was, I don't know anyways.
1:06:04
Speaker 1: I like when you see the close up of the
1:06:07
Speaker 1: barrel of the gun and then you see the bullet
1:06:08
Speaker 1: come out question mark pretty cool if you ask me,
1:06:12
Speaker 1: absolutely gorgeous, Like it's so much background being graphic novels
1:06:18
Speaker 1: that they were like we think things as like by
1:06:20
Speaker 1: scene and not point A to B. They're like, we
1:06:23
Speaker 1: need to tell as much as we can and as
1:06:25
Speaker 1: little frame as possible, which is obviously why like neo
1:06:28
Speaker 1: Noir attracts them because like it's just a marriage of
1:06:31
Speaker 1: like that in comic books. And also this is the
1:06:35
Speaker 1: same cinematographer who would go on to do the Matrix
1:06:39
Speaker 1: original trilogy. I don't know if they did. And clueless
1:06:43
Speaker 1: and Bill Pope, how dare you, sir? How dare you
1:06:49
Speaker 1: to be so versatile and yet so talented? Wow? Clueless
1:06:54
Speaker 1: and bound no wait blank check clueless bound back to
1:06:59
Speaker 1: back to back what what? What? Range incredible? Also did Bedazzled,
1:07:05
Speaker 1: a movie we did not like on this show, not
1:07:08
Speaker 1: his Also did Spider Man two, okay, and so he's
1:07:13
Speaker 1: worked with Alfred Molina. He did Spider Man two and
1:07:18
Speaker 1: three Army of Darkness. So he works with Sam Ramya
1:07:21
Speaker 1: a lot. Then, yes, he works with Sam Ramy. He
1:07:24
Speaker 1: did Scott Pilgrim versus The World Weight. I'm becoming a
1:07:28
Speaker 1: full on fan of this. But BILLI Pope is up
1:07:31
Speaker 1: there with um j oh God. Look, we famously don't
1:07:36
Speaker 1: know anything about cinematography. And I remember, like I know
1:07:40
Speaker 1: who Roger Deakins is, though Bill Kundy is the one
1:07:43
Speaker 1: I was trying to remember. He is dressed hard Halloween.
1:07:47
Speaker 1: If anything's ever looked like gorgeous and interesting, it's either
1:07:50
Speaker 1: Dean Coundy or Bill Pope. Like you can just kind
1:07:53
Speaker 1: of look at something and know who it is because
1:07:55
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is sexy, like this is this
1:07:58
Speaker 1: is a monolithic image. Okay, it's either dem Candier Doll Prope. Yeah.
1:08:03
Speaker 1: I love how Caitle and I were both like Roger
1:08:05
Speaker 1: Deacons because one time we got fucking we got like
1:08:09
Speaker 1: rightfully schooled by Hunter Harris in public in New York,
1:08:13
Speaker 1: and neither of us had any idea who Hunter Deacons
1:08:15
Speaker 1: was or Hunter, Oh my god, Roger Deacons. Okay Deacons,
1:08:21
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know. He's very old. Does anyone have
1:08:26
Speaker 1: any other thoughts about Bound? I think I would just
1:08:30
Speaker 1: end with maybe my favorite quote from the interview that
1:08:33
Speaker 1: I beg everyone to read. It's Gina and Jennifer just
1:08:36
Speaker 1: like talking about some of the behind the scenes choices
1:08:39
Speaker 1: that they made, but also they're kind of low key,
1:08:42
Speaker 1: like hitting on each other the entire time. This was like,
1:08:46
Speaker 1: I think, like five years ago, and it's a lot
1:08:49
Speaker 1: of like the interview being like Gina continues to stare
1:08:52
Speaker 1: at Jennifer, not answering my question, and then just says
1:08:55
Speaker 1: something like I loved playing with her boobs. Um, it's
1:09:00
Speaker 1: fantastic interview. We'll link it. We'll link it in the
1:09:02
Speaker 1: description as well. So Jennifer would tell Gina things like, Hey,
1:09:06
Speaker 1: when we're shooting this scene, can you put my hand
1:09:08
Speaker 1: here so my cellulate doesn't show. Also, when this happens,
1:09:12
Speaker 1: hold my boom up like this so it looks plumper
1:09:14
Speaker 1: and perkier. And so she basically like between takes, I
1:09:18
Speaker 1: guess they were just constantly like a laughing and be
1:09:22
Speaker 1: using each other as human spanks. I that's trust. That
1:09:27
Speaker 1: is beautiful trust. And the fact that Susie Bright was
1:09:32
Speaker 1: also like involved in the choreographing of the scene. I
1:09:35
Speaker 1: just I love it so much. And the fact that
1:09:37
Speaker 1: they were honest about it in interviews. Oh my god,
1:09:39
Speaker 1: I would lie my ass off. Good for them, Yeah,
1:09:43
Speaker 1: they're They're also two of the hottest people on the planet.
1:09:46
Speaker 1: So you know, all with a grain of salt. Yeah,
1:09:50
Speaker 1: I think that that's all I had to I just
1:09:52
Speaker 1: what a what a fun movie. If you haven't seen it,
1:09:56
Speaker 1: it is streaming on Amazon Prime as we record this.
1:10:00
Speaker 1: At least hopefully it stays dreaming in a widely available
1:10:03
Speaker 1: way soon. But you know, run, don't walk. It fucking
1:10:07
Speaker 1: rocks truly. Yeah, the movie obviously does pass the Bechdel test,
1:10:14
Speaker 1: mostly between Quirky and Violet. But I would say one
1:10:17
Speaker 1: of my favorite exchanges that pass is when Quirky goes
1:10:22
Speaker 1: into the bar towards the beginning and says, how are
1:10:26
Speaker 1: you doing Sue to Sue the bartender, and Sue the
1:10:31
Speaker 1: bartender says, like shit, pause, Well, now that we're all
1:10:36
Speaker 1: caught up? Can I buy you a drink? And then
1:10:41
Speaker 1: they go on to talk about Quirky's job. Quirky says,
1:10:45
Speaker 1: I'm just here to get laid dot dot dot by
1:10:48
Speaker 1: a woman because they're in a lesbian bar. The whole
1:10:51
Speaker 1: exchange passes the test, as does many, if not most,
1:10:56
Speaker 1: of the exchanges between Quirky and Violet soum you love
1:11:00
Speaker 1: to see it. You do love to see it, and
1:11:03
Speaker 1: it makes you smile and it makes your horny, and
1:11:06
Speaker 1: what more can you ask for from a movie? Definitely
1:11:09
Speaker 1: passes the back to the test. However, what about the
1:11:12
Speaker 1: most important metric on the face of the fucking plant?
1:11:15
Speaker 1: You mean our nipple scale, in which we rate a
1:11:18
Speaker 1: movie zero to five nipples based on how it does
1:11:23
Speaker 1: when you look at it through an intersectional feminist lens.
1:11:26
Speaker 1: Is that what you're referring to, Jane? Yes, yeah, Um,
1:11:33
Speaker 1: I would give this movie honestly freaking five nipples, Like
1:11:42
Speaker 1: is there a reason not to? It's just like it's
1:11:45
Speaker 1: a pretty like it's it's a white movie. I think that, uh,
1:11:50
Speaker 1: warrens saying I'm pretty probably five nipples. Really like five
1:11:55
Speaker 1: nipples does work? Like? I don't really it it's kind
1:12:00
Speaker 1: of it kind of has to be fun, kind of
1:12:03
Speaker 1: has to be really no way around it. Right. It
1:12:07
Speaker 1: challenges so much, it subverts so much. It presents these
1:12:13
Speaker 1: characters in very nuanced ways the harmful tropes that we
1:12:18
Speaker 1: had been seeing in film up to that point and
1:12:20
Speaker 1: continue to see for years and years after that. It's like,
1:12:25
Speaker 1: let's instead have horny women be horny for each other
1:12:29
Speaker 1: in a very sex positive and non exploitative way. Let's
1:12:34
Speaker 1: have them be driving the narrative. Let's have them be
1:12:38
Speaker 1: able to like do ship and have skills and fix
1:12:41
Speaker 1: things and plan things. And I just love that. Like Quirky,
1:12:46
Speaker 1: she's the planner, She's the thief. That's her skill set. Meanwhile,
1:12:51
Speaker 1: Violet is like a very good performer. She's good at acting,
1:12:55
Speaker 1: she's good at making people believe like the way. She
1:12:58
Speaker 1: also has like the credit coal knowledge to like, she
1:13:01
Speaker 1: knows how the mafia works, right, she knows who's weak
1:13:05
Speaker 1: to what, who's insecure to what? Like who could she
1:13:09
Speaker 1: play like a fiddle because she's constantly at a front
1:13:12
Speaker 1: row seat to the most intimate behaviors right, Like, the
1:13:16
Speaker 1: plan wouldn't work without both of their specific skill sets
1:13:22
Speaker 1: and without any like Mary sus nonsense needing to take place,
1:13:26
Speaker 1: like between the two of them need to be working
1:13:28
Speaker 1: together with trust in order for the plan to work.
1:13:31
Speaker 1: And it's because they do that that it works, and
1:13:34
Speaker 1: then they get to drive away in the truck. I
1:13:37
Speaker 1: love it. There's a specific scene that like illustrates that,
1:13:40
Speaker 1: Like it's it's build Pope and the Wai is being like,
1:13:44
Speaker 1: we're making it obvious that they're like equal contenders, and
1:13:47
Speaker 1: when they're getting ready for the heist, and like Jia
1:13:51
Speaker 1: is putting the lock picking kit in her ear and
1:13:54
Speaker 1: Jennifer Tilly is putting on lipstick, and like she's loading
1:13:58
Speaker 1: her gun and Jennifer Tilly is like zipping her dress up.
1:14:02
Speaker 1: Like they both have very specific tools that they're bringing
1:14:05
Speaker 1: to the table that they cannot survive without. And that,
1:14:09
Speaker 1: my friends, is show don't tell. That's a screenwriting tip
1:14:13
Speaker 1: for everyone out there. I really, I really love it.
1:14:18
Speaker 1: Everyone's firing on. I just now knowing that Bill Pope
1:14:22
Speaker 1: was coming off of Clueless. I like to think that
1:14:25
Speaker 1: he was just cracking his knuckles before every shot and
1:14:28
Speaker 1: being like, not to worry, I just shot clueless. I
1:14:32
Speaker 1: got this. If I had just shot Clueless, I would
1:14:34
Speaker 1: not shut up about it. That that's for damn sure. Um,
1:14:39
Speaker 1: and the Witchasky sisters are like, don't worry, We're about
1:14:41
Speaker 1: to direct the Matrix. And everyone's like, holy sh it,
1:14:45
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Um? What is that? Yes?
1:14:49
Speaker 1: So I'm giving this movie five nipples. I can't wait
1:14:53
Speaker 1: to rewatch it. This movie should be in more like
1:14:56
Speaker 1: film school curriculums for all the fucking classes that are
1:14:59
Speaker 1: like we're a new new like this is a neo
1:15:01
Speaker 1: noir class, Like why aren't you watching Bound? This movie
1:15:05
Speaker 1: rules five nipples and I will give to Quirky, too
1:15:11
Speaker 1: to Violet, and one to Sue the bartender. I'm gonna
1:15:16
Speaker 1: go five as well. I think that this movie is
1:15:19
Speaker 1: going to enter the elite Jamie Tear of movies I
1:15:23
Speaker 1: would fall asleep to, which is the highest compliment in
1:15:26
Speaker 1: the entire world. It just means I feel safe with
1:15:28
Speaker 1: this movie. This movie makes me feel held. I want
1:15:32
Speaker 1: to be with this movie multiple times a month, and um,
1:15:37
Speaker 1: I want to know every single word of it subconsciously. Okay,
1:15:42
Speaker 1: Like I do feel like it's it sounds like an insult,
1:15:45
Speaker 1: but it's like the shows what I do. But like
1:15:49
Speaker 1: it's like shows and movies that you're like, they don't
1:15:53
Speaker 1: necessarily need to be like calm, you just need to
1:15:56
Speaker 1: feel safe with them. Yeah. I do this with the Thing.
1:15:59
Speaker 1: I Bound the Thing, like I have certain movies that
1:16:03
Speaker 1: just make me so happy or like The Army of
1:16:05
Speaker 1: Darkness is another one that if I like, throw it
1:16:07
Speaker 1: on and I'm home alone, I feel like I have
1:16:10
Speaker 1: a guardian angel. Right. Like you're like if I woke
1:16:14
Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night and this was playing,
1:16:16
Speaker 1: If Bound was on and I woke up, yeah, you're like, Okay,
1:16:20
Speaker 1: things can't be that bad. Bound us on. So I
1:16:25
Speaker 1: really I am so happy to have this movie, um
1:16:28
Speaker 1: in my life. Now, I think we've kind of said
1:16:31
Speaker 1: it all at this point. I'm very excited to hear
1:16:34
Speaker 1: our listeners perspectives on this movie as well. Um, So,
1:16:38
Speaker 1: five nipples to to Violet, to the quirky, and let's
1:16:44
Speaker 1: say one to the truck. The truck in a way
1:16:48
Speaker 1: a character. Yeah, Vanessa, what do you say? I say, uh,
1:16:54
Speaker 1: you know the difference between me and no, I don't
1:16:58
Speaker 1: know either. Oh so romantic. So five nipples then across
1:17:03
Speaker 1: the board. What a rare accomplishment this is for a
1:17:07
Speaker 1: movie to get five nipples across the board on the
1:17:10
Speaker 1: Bucktel cast. So incredible. Shout out to Bound, Shout out
1:17:15
Speaker 1: to the Wachowski sisters, Shout out to us all, God
1:17:20
Speaker 1: bless us everyone. What am I saying? It's very late?
1:17:23
Speaker 1: Where I am? Okay? Tiny Tim, thank you bus. She
1:17:29
Speaker 1: literally pulled out the Tiny Tim card at the end
1:17:32
Speaker 1: of the Bound episode. You're gonna get Caitlin Torante and
1:17:36
Speaker 1: that's and that's that's how we keep things fresh in
1:17:38
Speaker 1: this relationship. She could become Tiny Tim and any Well,
1:17:43
Speaker 1: you're welcome, Vanessa, Thank you so much for coming back
1:17:46
Speaker 1: for a fourth time. We'll have you back for a
1:17:49
Speaker 1: fifth time so that we can give you our special
1:17:52
Speaker 1: fifth appearance gift that we have yet to actually um
1:17:58
Speaker 1: give to anyone. But it's it's okin jacket. I'm so excited,
1:18:02
Speaker 1: the Letterman jacket. But tell us where people can check
1:18:08
Speaker 1: out your stuff, follow you on social media anything like that. Um, yeah,
1:18:13
Speaker 1: you can find me on Twitter as an E. S. S. Guerrero.
1:18:18
Speaker 1: That'sn est Guerrero and s n E. S. Guerrero on Instagram.
1:18:21
Speaker 1: I know that makes it harder for people to find
1:18:23
Speaker 1: me if they're not the same. And that's on purpose, um,
1:18:28
Speaker 1: keep like a study smaller trickle um. And then you
1:18:31
Speaker 1: can find me every Wednesday on a show that I
1:18:34
Speaker 1: produced called bybe Check on G four. And then I
1:18:36
Speaker 1: have a podcast called Kicking and Screaming that's been on
1:18:39
Speaker 1: hiatus for a little bit because I've honestly just been
1:18:42
Speaker 1: really really tired, uh, And it's coming back soon and
1:18:45
Speaker 1: I've been missing talking about movies, so I'm very excited
1:18:47
Speaker 1: about it. You can find that under a kick screen pod.
1:18:50
Speaker 1: Love it. Thank you so much for coming back for
1:18:54
Speaker 1: this modern classic. Thank you for having me. You can
1:18:57
Speaker 1: find us in all the usual places. You can find
1:19:00
Speaker 1: us on Instagram or Twitter at becketel Cast. You can
1:19:04
Speaker 1: follow us on our Patreon ak Matreon at patreon dot com,
1:19:08
Speaker 1: slash becktel Cast, where every month we cover, we cover,
1:19:12
Speaker 1: we cover to are bound to cover. We are bound,
1:19:17
Speaker 1: We are bound and in fact tethered to our matreons
1:19:21
Speaker 1: uh community, and it's a gift of course where we
1:19:24
Speaker 1: cover two additional movies every single month. This month our
1:19:29
Speaker 1: theme is Bravely I know what you did last Midsommar
1:19:34
Speaker 1: and you won't believe the two movies we chose to cover.
1:19:38
Speaker 1: So that's five bucks a month, you get to bonus
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Speaker 1: episodes a month and a backdog of over a hundred episodes,
1:19:44
Speaker 1: and you can get merch at t public dot com.
1:19:47
Speaker 1: Slash the Bechtel cast. Imagine that. And with that said, um,
1:19:52
Speaker 1: I've got the truck running. Should we get out of here?
1:19:56
Speaker 1: The whole mafia is dead. We should probably get out
1:19:59
Speaker 1: of here. Yeah, let's yeah, yeah yeah. Bye bye bye
1:20:03
Speaker 1: bye bye