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Steph Claire Smith’s Controversial Return to Bikini Modelling · Outspoken the Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Amy Torver. I'm Kate Torver.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm Sophie Torver.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: And coming up on today's show, Steph Clare Smith's return
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to bikini modelling sparks debate and the great unfollowing of.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Saffron Barker's boyfriend.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: But first, happy birthday to Outspoken, if you can believe it.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: We are officially seven years old. Isn't that absolutely wild?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Lucky seven, they say.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, it's actually wild to think back that this
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: podcast started in 2019. So much has happened, not only
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: in our personal lives, but in the world. Like the pandemic,
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: that was massive, I think, for our podcast. I think
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: that was part of the reason it grew so quickly.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Everyone was at home needing something to listen to.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Well, to celebrate this week, you guys did an episode
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: where you read out Outspoken's hate comments, or I should
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: say hate comments about us.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: That was quite a journey.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was quite surprised initially with how vicious they
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: all were.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: And Where have those vicious comments gone?
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Like we don't receive as many hate comments anymore, which is,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: is that because the world's nicer or? No, that actually
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: made me sad because I tend to think that the
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: more hate comments you get, the more relevant your show
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: is becoming.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: So we're irrelevant now, is that right? Yeah, I was like, oh, well,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: we haven't had many hate comments lately. Is that because
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: people don't care about the show? Like that's how fucked
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: up I am. This cut me from the.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Most sensitive person who has literally been saying for the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: last couple of years, please do not send us hate comments. Yeah.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I definitely don't want them. So please
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: don't send them through.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: But it was actually like a wild journey to read
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: the hate comments because I actually remembered every single one
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And it really brought back memories of the different.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Episodes that had, I suppose, evoked such feelings in people.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: And I did a lot of reflecting because I was like,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: would we cover that topic now in the same way?
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: And I don't think we would. In some parts. You
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: know what's funny? You guys didn't mention this on the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: subs episode.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: But I remember when we used to get certain hate comments,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: it would spark arguments amongst us because.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: We'd be like, I told you that topic was shit
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: or you do.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Mumble or whatever the hate comment was. Or you guys
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: would yell at me because I'd send it through and
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: be like, how dare you send this through when I'm
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: trying to unwind and relax for the night. Anyway, if
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: you are interested to go down memory lane with Kate
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and Sophie whilst they read through seven years of hate comments,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe to Outspoken Plus.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: Either come along for the journey or don't, and that's okay.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: Sorry if I've ruffled any feathers, but I'm certainly not
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: intending to do that. I am just leaning into a
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: part of me that I feel like has kind of
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: taken the backseat.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Steph Glessmith has revealed she's set to return to bikini
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: and lingerie modeling. The wellness entrepreneur teased the news to
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: her 1.4 million followers, but not everyone was happy. Some
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: followers believe Steph's decision goes against the anti-diet messaging her
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: business is founded on.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Amy, how did this all kick off?
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Well, it all started when Steph posted a photo dump
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: of bikini photos from a gifted trip to Hayman Island.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: So in the caption, she hinted at a possible return
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to bikini modelling, writing, quote from Harvey when Josh was
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: shooting me.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Back at Hayman. What on earth are you even doing?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Just something I did every week for 10 years before
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: you were born.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: I miss it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I of course looked through this carousel of images and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I was trying to get in my head what a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: five-year-old would think if they saw their mum doing this.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Like not so much the fact that she was in
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: bathers or anything like that, but it was a lot
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: of pouting and a lot of like tossing of the
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: hair and like, it'd be like, what is going on here?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Like if you'd never seen your mum do that. Because
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: all little boys love their mum so much.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: He's probably like, my mum's beautiful.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: I think what would have thrown him is the fact
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: that his dad was taking photos because, I mean, we've
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: had a lot of chats on our other podcasts, the
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: mum's group, how you have to beg your partner to
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: take any photos of you.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: So maybe he's like, what's going on here?
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  Speaker 5: I feel like.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Models always gravitate though to photographers.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Or men who can take a good photo.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Is it that they were able to take photographs before
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: they met them or has the model put in a
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: lot of hard work to their husband and trained them up?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: In terms of this photo, it did elicit a big
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: response online. The majority of comments were praising Steph's physique.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: There were a lot of flame emojis. However, one person said,
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I love you, Steph, but do you purposely put constant
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: body pictures up to promote a skinny body type? I've
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: always slash still do love you as a mom slash businesswoman.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: But I feel like you put a lot of pictures
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: up of your body in togs, etc. It promotes having
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: a certain tiny ripped abs frame. I know this wouldn't
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: be your intention, just something that's become more frequent. Now,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Steph ended up responding directly to the comment in a
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: four and a half minute video she posted on Instagram.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: The reel has attracted almost 200,000 views and was entitled
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: In Case You're New Here. And in it, Steph essentially
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: shared her own personal origin story. And she explained that
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: before launching Kik, she was a full-time bikini, lingerie and
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: activewear model. She said while the job was a dream
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: come true, it also played a big role in her
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: past disordered eating habits and bad body image. And she
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: said it was ultimately the reason why she launched Kik
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: 10 years ago. She then spoke about how she had
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: been accused of promoting skinny top culture and going against
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Kik's messaging by posting a lot of bikini photos.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Let's take a listen.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: I hate to think that people think that I might
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: be adding to that by potentially starting bikini modeling or
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: anything like that. Again, modeling is something that whilst there
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: is absolutely been some dark sides to my career that
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: I've been very open about, it is also something that
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: I really, really, really enjoy. And it is something that
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: after two kids and just feeling myself and feeling really
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: confident in who I am, and enjoying being behind the
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: camera and not being so insecure is a really special
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: feeling and it's something that I want to try and
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: do more.
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to, I.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Don't want if I'm starting to post more of that
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: sort of stuff to, I don't know, make people think
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  Speaker 4: that I'm going against anything that I have been projecting
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: because I don't really believe that that, well, it's definitely
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: not what I'm intending and I don't believe that that's
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: necessarily true or yeah, I just don't necessarily agree with it,
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: but I do want to flag that you might see
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: more of that. And for me, that's something that I'm
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: really excited about.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I could almost see the cogs turning over in her
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: mind when she put this video out, because it's quite
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: clear that she is planning this grand return to modeling
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: in the background, but she's becoming aware through these comments
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: that people aren't going to be happy about it. And
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: people are already calling out some of this contradictory messaging
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: that's happening. I mean, I think she thought in the past,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I can have this very successful fitness brand that's all
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: about body positivity while still putting out these body checks,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: like still having this other life that I had pre.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: This business, but people aren't buying it anymore.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, this isn't the first time Steph's modeling content
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: has caused a disconnect with her followers. It was only
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: back in March that she admitted she had unintentionally promoted
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: bounce back culture after appearing in a paid promotion for
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: bras and things. So to refresh listeners' memory, in the ad,
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: she appeared in lingerie and did a lot of body
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: checks at different angles. And this video immediately attracted a
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: lot of commentary. Again, what we saw from the bikini
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: photos of, oh my God, you look so good. Like,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: how do you look this good eight months postpartum? And
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: at the time, Steph told her followers it was mainly
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: genetics and that she'd had abs since she was a kid. Now,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: As you touched on, Sophie, this promotion was in stark
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  Speaker 3: contrast to a campaign that Steph's wellness brand, Kik, was
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: running at the time. And the campaign was supposedly going
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: against bounce-back culture, and they used this phrase, bounce forward.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: But this campaign was in direct contrast to that. It
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: felt like it was promoting bounce-back.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I have seen quite a number of fitness influencers sharing
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: this new politically correct phrase basically about looking hot after
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: pregnancy and it's rebuild. I'm in my rebuild stage. And
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's basically the same thing. Sometimes I wish
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: people would just own it. Like as much as Sarah's
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: day gets crap for the toxic diet culture that, well,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the toxic fitness culture that she puts out.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: There, at least, you know, that's her. You know what
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I mean? Sometimes I think it's worse when there's all
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: this virtue signaling.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, it's kind of like if Steph Gless
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Smith was like, here's my fitness brand.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And here's how you're going to look like me, which
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: to be honest is originally why I became a member
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: of Kik. So I was like, God, I'd love to
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: look like her. But it's no, it's like, no, no, no.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: It's not about looking good. It's about feeling good in
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: the inside. And you just kind of don't buy it anymore.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: I think what is starting to grind people's gears is
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: that it's very virtuous. And it's like, we are doing
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: good in this fitness space, even though you're actually promoting
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: this message because it's actually the message that now sells
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: and it's the politically correct message in the fitness space
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: because when people put out the hard message like Sarah's Day,
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: they get slammed. Whereas when you put out messaging like Kick,
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: you are making a lot of money off people who
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: may be vulnerable and wanting to change their bodies and
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: looking at Steph and Laura's bodies and saying, oh, if
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: I do all of this, I'll get that as well.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: I've even noticed in our Facebook group that the tone
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: around kick has changed and that people are sick of
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: the contradictory messaging.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I think having the podcast doesn't help as well because
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: I've noticed on the.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Podcast, they like to push kick because obviously they know
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: they've got a captive audience. And the other day they
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: had this segment about how they were rejecting the other
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: fitness programs who push that summer bodies are made in winter,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: but then in the same breath, they were pushing their
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: fitness plan.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: It just didn't make any sense.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: I want to talk to you guys about the comments
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Steph made in this reel about being a brand, because
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: I found it particularly interesting.
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: If you have been here for a while and have
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: been following me, about 80% of my content was me
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: in like activewear, bikinis, lingerie or whatever, because that was
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: what I did for a living. Um, and I was
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: constantly traveling and had the most incredible spontaneous lifestyle. And
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: I'm so grateful for that. Um, and so if I
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: want to tap back into any of that, I suppose,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: just a reminder that I am a brand, um, but
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: I am also a person and this is my personal page.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: And If it doesn't align with you anymore, like that's
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: totally fine. We don't all have to agree and get
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: along and follow each other. But yeah, it's a big
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: part of who I am and I'm really excited to
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: potentially be tapping back into it.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: To me, I'm surprised that Steph can't see that her
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: personal brand is heavily intertwined with her business brand kick.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, over the last 10 years, her personal brand
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: has evolved from being a model to being a wellness founder.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: And after being the face of Kik for 10 years,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: it is going to be very difficult for Steph's followers
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: to separate the two, particularly when her personal Instagram has
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: been the driving force behind building Kik. And when you
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: couple it with the fact that Steph's business has built
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: a large amount of trust, positioning itself as an antidote
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: to diet culture, it really does change the way people
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: interpret her content.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I actually think that that's very telling.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: She obviously feels like.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Her personal brand, which she has grown for over a
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: decade is in contrast to the messaging putting out a kick.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: She knows it herself.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: It also seems like she's furious because she kind of
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: wants to have the cake and.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Eat it too.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Like, but my personal brand is me being a bikini model,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: but I also have.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: This hugely successful business that goes against it.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not sitting here and saying that I
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: think Steph is intentionally promoting skinny talk ideals. She herself
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: has said it's not her intention. Unfortunately though, intention and
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: impact are very different things. And Her audience is presumably
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: predominantly made up of young women who are interested in
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: health and body image. So it's really only natural for
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: them to start comparing themselves to her. And if she
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: begins regularly featuring photos of her body in bikinis and lingerie,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: then that's going to happen.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I actually don't think her audience is that young anymore.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I think her audience has grown up with her. They majority,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, would be millennial mums. who probably aren't
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: there for the body checks. They want to see her
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: relatable content, like her sleep training, her son, her talking
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: about her anger. On the flip side, could Steph sharing
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: all of these body checks actually sell more subscriptions to Kik?
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Because let's be real, The reason you guys said you
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: joined Kik initially was because you wanted to look like
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Steph Clare Smith.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Naturally, it probably will, but it really erodes Kik's brand
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: and the trust that people have in it because a
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: big part of the misalignment has to do with Kik's
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: origin story because as Steph touched on in this reel,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: she and Laura launched Kik off the back of the
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: negative experiences with disordered eating and body image that they
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: had from being a part of the modeling industry. So understandably-
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Steph's followers are going to start questioning whether the narrative
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: that they've been telling for a decade actually lines up
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: because why would you then return to modelling? It really
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: conflicts with the narrative that they've been telling.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Cue Laura Henshaw sharing something very relatable because I think
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: last time Steph got in trouble for body checking, then
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Laura shared this very realistic.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Day in her life as a newly postpartum.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Mum and it was great because she was showing the
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: reality of what your body looks like having a child
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and It must be.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Tough for her to sit back.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: As Steph's business partner and see this going on because
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I feel like they'd have a lot of meetings behind
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the scenes about how contrasting and contradictory some of Steph's
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: content is to their core brand. I mean, if I
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: was Laura Henshaw, I'd be furious because I'd be like,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: wait a second, why are you even contemplating going back
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: into this toxic industry and Especially when you have such
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: a large company like Kik, like what is the motive
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: for it?
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Look, I'm going to be honest, but for me, there's
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: always been question marks around Kik's messaging because originally it
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: launched as a clean eating recipe book. And for the
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: first eight years, it was called Keep It Cleaner. Like
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: they had to rebrand it to Kik. And it then
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: evolved into a movement app. And then at the start
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: of this year, it rebranded as a wellness hub. Now,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: When you think back to the time Kik actually launched
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: and where the fitness industry was, it was having a
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: massive reckoning because awareness was actually starting to grow around
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: disordered eating and body image, a lot of what Steph
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: and Laura talk about. And fitness brands were starting to
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: shift their messaging. And all the messaging was about feeling
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: strong and confident, and it moved away from putting the
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: aesthetics as a goal. We used to see a lot
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: of before and after images in Kayla Asinas' workout guides.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, she obviously pivoted as well. And Kik really
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: pivoted at the perfect time. And they became known as
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: fighting against diet culture. And they have been heavily praised
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: for that. But despite how good its messaging has been,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: it's still being delivered by former models or now active
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: models who are conventionally attractive, lean and highly fit. So
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: let's be real, as you touched on, so many people
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: have signed up to kick because they want to look
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: like Steph Clare Smith. And Steph might say that her
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: body's not the goal.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: But so many people are signing up on the hopes
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: of getting it.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: So it's really impossible to avoid all of this when
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Steph and Laura's bodies are a central part of the branding. Yeah,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: but you can't just say, oh, because they're attractive and
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: have good bodies, then they can't be pushing positive body
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: image messaging. Like they have been doing, that's the thing,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: you hit the nail on the head. They have been
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: doing a great job. for the last, what, seven or
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: so years, the messaging they have been putting out has
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: been fantastic. But it's the last couple of years where
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: we have seen these contradictory campaigns. Look, what I was
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: more trying to say is that Kik is a really
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: good example of this evolution in the fitness industry. And
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: this shift has more broadly been seen as being really positive.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: But the issue is that the visuals haven't evolved as
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: much as the language. So you've got models and people
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: who are very thin and very lean, saying all these
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: things about be confident in your body and, you know,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: who cares what you look like, love yourself. But that's
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: not hard to do when you look like Steph Claire Smith.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, the core of this debate really is, is
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: bikini modeling incompatible with anti-diet messaging?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: What do you think, Kate? Look, it is very layered.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: So Steph should be able to model bikinis or lingerie
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: without being accused of promoting unhealthy habits because otherwise we're
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: literally saying, well, only certain body types are allowed to
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: be visible. But because Steph's business is built around helping
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: women feel better about their bodies, and she also personally
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: has enormous influence, I think that does change things. And
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: I think it is quite difficult to build a business
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: around rejecting toxic body ideals and then return to an
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: industry that historically profited from selling these body ideals.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense to me.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I think what adds a layer of complexity is that
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: at the moment, Steph's body is one that we're seeing
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: being celebrated online worldwide.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Through Skinny Talk.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: So she has recently spoken about how over the last
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: couple of months, she has lost a lot of weight
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: due to some medication that she's on. I assume she's
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: talking about being on ADHD medication. She has also spoken
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: about how she hasn't really found time to work out
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: or be strong, and it's not a body that she's
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: used to seeing. So I think that's why it's really
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: hard for her followers to then see Steph posting these
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: photos where She's looking very confident in this slimmer frame
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: at the beach online in her bathers. Also the fact
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: that now that she is that body type, she feels
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: confident enough to return to modeling. I mean, I know
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: she says that over the years that she's done so
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: much for, you know, feeling confident in her body with kick,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: but it is interesting that it aligns with her losing weight.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: And, you know, she's been very open about that. But
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: it is interesting that Steph now wants to take up modeling.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: It makes me wonder, like, Are they going to be
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: stepping away from Kik? Are they not going to, you know,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: they're obviously not as hands-on anymore. Is Kik going to
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: be sold? Like it opens a whole can of worms up, really.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I think with Steph, modelling is something that she genuinely
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: really loves, probably more so than being this businesswoman. And
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: now she's coming out of the depths of the newborn trenches.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: She probably wants to spend more time doing things that
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: she's genuinely passionate about. But as we have discussed, it's
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: really difficult when that industry is at odds with the
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: core messaging from your very successful fitness brand.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: Do you think it's also about profile building? Because Steph
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: and Laura have almost been put in a box together.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: They kind of, you don't really see one without the
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: other anymore. I wonder if Steph likes to be known
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: as Steph Klessmith standing alone.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I actually think it's more to do with the fact
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: that Steph has decided that Billie is her last child.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Billie's just turned or recently turned one. I think this
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: is more for Steph. This is Steph wanting to get
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: back to, I suppose, how she was pre-children. I think
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: this is Steph doing it for herself.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Speculation is growing that UK influencer Saffron Barker and her
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: model boyfriend Josh Milne have called it quits. The pair
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: who have been dating for 18 months dramatically unfollowed one
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: another and removed recent couple photos from their grids. Now, Sophie,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: I feel like I need to check in with you
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: because you are a stan of this relationship.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Are you okay? Look, I'm not happy and I hope
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: that my saffron is doing okay. I'm very worried about her.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: OGs will know that Saffron Barker is one of my
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: comfort YouTubers.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: And when I.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Was postpartum, I was literally living for her video uploads.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I think it was this form of escapism for me
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: because she just moved to Dubai with her boyfriend, Josh.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: They were living this sort of hot young lifestyle. And
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to inject it to my veins. Like
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I was just loving it. And that's why I'm really
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: sad because I think that Josh has been a great
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: addition to her channel. He loves being on camera. In
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the early days, he really played that perfect. boyfriend role
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: because he really embraced her family. He's a Scottish model
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: and a couple of weeks in, maybe this should have
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: been the red flag, but he did move over to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: be with.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Saffron in her hometown of Brighton. He really got around
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: her family.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Everyone was like, Thank God she's found someone nice after
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the whole Louis Reese Zamet cheating incident.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that really changed when they moved to Dubai.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: I actually was the opposite of you, Sophie. I loved
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the content that they shared when they were living in Brighton.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: But as soon as they moved to Dubai, I found
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: it so boring. It was so clear that Saffron wasn't
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: happy because she's such a family person.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people actually started questioning his intentions.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: They're like, well, hang on.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: At the start you were the perfect boyfriend that moved
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: in with her and suddenly you're taking her all the
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: way from her family because it turned out that Josh
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: moved to Dubai because he grew up there, his family
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: were there and it was all what he wanted to do.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Whereas Saffron had spoken for months about how she wanted
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: to move to the US, she wanted to try and
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: become an actor and that all went to the wayside.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: This is the issue though.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: So if you're talking about how Saffron really pushed Josh
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: as being this perfect boyfriend, I think a lot of
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: young creators, will share this TikTok content of, look what
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: my boyfriend does for me.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And isn't he amazing?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: And we had this joke about how Tully Smythe, we'd
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: love to be her boyfriend in another life because she
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: just markets him as the best guy ever. Like Saffron
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: has pumped up Josh's tires so much. She's been nothing
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: but completely supportive of him. And if you look at
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: their YouTube channel, They looked like they had this amazing relationship.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Now things have ended. Everyone's going, well, what went on?
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Like there's so much that we don't know. I mean,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was only Saffron trying to sell
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: this good guy image. I think it was Josh as well. Now,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: back in March, there were a lot of questions about
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: where the couple was going to live. And that was
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: after Iran's missile attacks on the popular influencer hotspot.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: The couple were in Australia when the attacks took place.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: But they returned home to the UK following the trip
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: and everyone thought, okay, they must be moving back to
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: be close to Saffron's family. But in April, Saffron threw
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: a complete spanner in the works by announcing she was
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: selling her home.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: And everyone was like, well, where are they going to live?
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So for a couple of months, they did return back
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: to Dubai because their apartment, they still had the lease
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: for it. But she surprised her followers again when she
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: announced she was moving to New York to pursue her
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: acting career.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to some of what she said.
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: As you can tell, I'm not at home. I am
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: currently in New York, which is just incredible to say.
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: As you guys know, I have spoken about how much
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: I've been wanting to either move to LA or New
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: York for, well, for the longest, since I was a
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: little girl, I always said that I was going to
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: go to America.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: That's just where I wanted to go.
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: And I thought, do you know what? What better time
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: than now? You know, I'm just getting older. Even though
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: I'm still young, I'm just getting older. And more than anything,
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: I just wanted to try and do everything I could
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: to go and chase my dreams. And so that is
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: why I'm currently here.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: See, as soon as she announced that she was moving
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: to New York, I was like, oh my God, things
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: must not be good with her and Josh. Like she's
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: literally going back to what she wanted to do before
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: she met you.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Well, it was also odd because she never even addressed
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the fact that she had left Dubai. Like we don't
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: know what's happened to her apartment. The whole thing is
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: just weird. Well, when I was listening to it, I
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, my God, have I missed something? Like
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: have I missed a breakup announcement?
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Where is Josh?
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: But in the next breath she then said that she's
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: lucky her family and her boyfriend have been so supportive
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: of her decisions. And I mean, she did explain that
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: this move isn't permanent.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It's only going to be for a couple of months.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: That's what she said about Dubai. Well, yeah.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Well, just the other day, Josh did a Q &
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: A on his Instagram, which was weird in itself because
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: he never normally does them. And someone said, why didn't
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: you go to New York with Saffron? And he responded,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: we both have busy lives and we decided it'd be
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: best that we spent a few weeks apart so that
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: she could settle in and have no distractions. I was
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: also supposed to go to Australia for a modeling job.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: but my working visa never came in time.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: RIP. That's the thing.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: So while Saffron has moved to New York, he's been
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: on this weird boys trip to Bali.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I followed Josh.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I did as soon as they started dating. And he's
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: been sharing all of these thirst trap photos of him
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: and this other ripped guy. And I was like, I
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: don't know how I'd feel about that if I was Saffron.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: It looks like they've literally been you know, parading the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: streets of Bali or the beaches of Bali as if
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: they're single. Well, a lot of people were actually saying
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: that the photos of these two guys were just so weird,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: like as in no friends would ever take these kind
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: of photos.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Like they were real model-esque photos.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: We have to share some of them on our Instagram. Yeah,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: but some people were saying they almost looked like they
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: were in a relationship, the amount of photos that were
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: going up. It makes me feel like Saffron and Josh
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: must have been on some kind of break.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or I wondered if he cheated in Bali.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Well, clearly something's gone down because on Tuesday, things got
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: even murkier when eagle-eyed followers, including you, Sophie, noticed that
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: the couple had unfollowed one another.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I raised the alarm in the group chat as
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: soon as I noticed. I mean, I didn't even see
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: anything online. I literally saw this photo that Josh uploaded,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: a very attention-seeking photo of him in a Spanish soccer
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: uniform following a Spain's World Cup win. And I noticed
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: they'd been up for hours, but Saffron hadn't liked it
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: or hadn't commented on it. I'm like, that's weird. Quickly
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: checked their follow account, not following one another. I then
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: looked at their Instagram feeds and they'd removed all of
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: the recent photos of one another. And what makes me
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: think that he's been a dirty dog whilst he's been
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: in Bali is because not only has he copped the
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: unfollow from Saffron, but her whole family. So her mum, Wendy,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: her dad, Darren, her brother, Jed, his girlfriend, Imogen, even
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: her best friend, Libby, who's been in New York with her,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: has unfollowed him.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: In terms of the photos going missing... Could it be
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: an instance of Saffron blocking him? Because when you're in
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: shared tagged photos, the photos usually disappear.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I initially thought they must have unfollowed each other and
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: thought how juvenile it is. But then, Kate, as you say,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I reckon there's been a huge block coming from Saffron's end.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Or devil's advocate, could he have blocked Saffron and her
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: whole family?
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think he's the one that's done the
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: blocking because originally he was still following them. But I
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: think he must be wise to the fact that they've
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: unfollowed him now and has returned the favor. I mean,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: all I could think about was how stupid must he
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: feel with her full name tattooed across his arm? Because
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: he has Saffron Autumn Barker, which is quite a long name,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: tattooed across him. That would actually take a lot to
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: cover up. I mean, he can't do the love heart
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: like Matt Zukowski suggested with the crack through that one,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: can he?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: It's a fine line, so surely he can get it lasered.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I really feel for Saffron because I think that she
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: thought this relationship was going to be endgame. I mean,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: most of her other boyfriends that she's been with, she's
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: done long distance with, but with her and Josh, they
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: actually live together from day dot.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: So they've been in quite a serious relationship.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: The thing that does excite me for her though, is
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: that I really think that she put her career on
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: hold over this past year for him. And now it's
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: really nice to see her in New York, pursuing her
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: acting career, doing what she wants to do. The move
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: has probably come at a perfect time, even though she
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: thought he was going to be moving there with her.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I think this is the perfect city to be single in.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And I hope she just meets somebody that's a bit
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: more normal, not like some model that's a wannabe social
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: media star that's clearly trying to use her for clout.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Not sure how successful that's going to be when she's
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: in New York City. Also, like, I know we don't
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: know what Josh has done yet. And if he has
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: cheated on her, I am going to be unfollowing him.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: But I quite liked him in her content. Like, yeah,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: he was a bit of a know-it-all, but he kind
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: of gave it back to her. Like he was a
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: bit of a character.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: The thing is cheating might not have been involved at all.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Maybe they just broke up and her family unfollowed him.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: No.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: Like it's something that happens quite a bit.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: No, but you do the gradual unfollow. You know what
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: If something ended amicably, you stick around for a bit.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Like the fact that they all unfollowed within a day,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: that says a lot. After an overseas holiday that looked
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: weird in itself.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Well, that is where we're going to leave things today.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: But if you want to hear more from us, we
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: drop a subscriber episode every Thursday for Outspoken Plus subscribers.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: As we mentioned at the start of the show, in
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: that episode, Sophie and I are going through our hate comments,
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: which was surprisingly quite a laugh.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: They're not hate comments, Kate. They're legitimate reviews that people
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: sent in.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Well, negative reviews that were nasty. We also have a
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: podcast called The Mums Group. So if you are a
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: mum and you're interested in hearing that content, make sure
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: you go and follow The Mums Group on Spotify or
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: This podcast was recorded on the.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Traditional land of the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: We pay respect to elders past and present.