Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 138- Jason Tardio - COO - Immunic Therapeutics

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Episode 138- Jason Tardio - COO - Immunic Therapeutics · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:06
Welcome to the Biohub Podcast. We are joined by Jason Tardio,
0:09
CEO of Immunic Therapeutics. Jason has spent time in Big
0:14
Pharma and also in small biotech.
0:16
His background started as a sales representative and now CEO
0:20
of a very impressive biotech company and his story is
0:24
awesome. So I'm very excited to share
0:26
this with you. Thank you for joining us, Jason.
0:28
Greca, thank you for having me. Absolutely.
0:31
Yeah, obviously wants just to to get straight in.
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You know, could you tell us a little bit about your
0:36
background? Obviously I mentioned there
0:38
that, you know, you started as a sales representative and now
0:40
CEO. So yeah, I would love to learn
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more about that. Sure.
0:45
So a bit about me and and my current company and as you've
0:49
mentioned I'm Jason Tardy, I'm the President and Chief
0:52
Operating Officer of a company called Immunic Therapeutics.
0:55
Immunic is developing small molecule therapies for chronic
0:59
inflammatory and autoimmune related diseases.
1:02
Our most advanced asset is a medicine called Beautiful Miss
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Calcium. It is in phase three development
1:08
for relaxing forms of multiple sclerosis and we expect data
1:12
read out in December of this year.
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And we've also announced that we will be kicking off a additional
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phase three program with Vita flumous calcium in primary
1:23
progressive multiple sclerosis in the second-half of this year
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as well. So very busy time, but but very
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exciting time for the company. A bit about just my background,
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as you've mentioned, I've, I've been in the pharmaceutical
1:36
biotech industry virtually my whole career.
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So over 25 years ago, I started as a, as a sales representative
1:44
and then over the years just took on roles of increasing
1:47
responsibility largely initially on the commercial side of things
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and then eventually worked my way into general management.
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So a little bit about my my career.
1:57
Amazing. Thank you so much for that.
2:00
Obviously you started as a sales representative and and now a
2:04
member of the C-Suite. What was it like starting in the
2:07
sales representative and how do you think that shaped your
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journey to where you are well? I, I mean, I know I'm a little
2:14
bit biased given that it was my journey, but I, I can't think of
2:18
the better way to start your career in the farmer, pharma,
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biotech sector than than starting on the sales side of
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things. It really gives you ground floor
2:27
insights into the market, into how physicians think and make
2:34
decisions. The role itself also teaches you
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many attributes and many skills that you can leverage throughout
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the rest of your career, regardless of where you may
2:46
decide to go. I remember as a sales
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representative, you know, you're, you're out there alone
2:53
pounding the pavement, knocking on doors, calling on customers.
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And so there's a high degree of personal accountability.
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No one is looking over your shoulder to ensure that you're
3:04
delivering X or Y on a day-to-day basis.
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It's really on you. So you develop a a very high
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degree of accountability. You also develop a high degree
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of resiliency. You know, you get a lot of doors
3:15
shut in your face, right? Sales is not easy and it
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requires that you you have grit, you have determination.
3:24
It always also requires that you have really effective planning
3:27
skills. As you think about what you're
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doing on a day-to-day, week to week basis, you don't just kind
3:33
of fly by the seat of your pants.
3:34
You really think a little bit about what is it that I hope to
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accomplish today? Where is it that I need to go?
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Where is this customer on the sales journey?
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Are they prescribing our product?
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Have they not prescribed it yet? What are some of the objections
3:48
that they've previously brought up?
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And really it allows an opportunity for you to think
3:53
mentally to prepare to advance a customer along a sales journey.
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But at, at the end of the day, I, I, I can't think of a better
4:02
way to start again of your career because you, you, you
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really learn how this market thinks.
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And and I would add here also that the, you know, sales reps
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are, are all field facing roles, whether it's a sales
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representative of medical science liaison.
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Some companies have roles called field reimbursement managers or
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or national regional account managers.
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These are market access related roles.
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All of these field based roles in which representatives are the
4:29
face of a company are vitally important to any biotech or
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pharma company. If you think about this, these
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are the individuals that that shape the reputation of a
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company. These are the individuals that
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the treating clinicians engage with on a day-to-day basis is.
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So it's vitally important that you have great people in those
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roles. These are not easy roles that
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they're tough roles, but the teams that are in the field
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really drive another the perception and reputation of a
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company, but ultimately Dr. the success of a company.
4:58
Absolutely. You know, you, you mentioned
5:01
there as well, obviously sales is a hard definitely and
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obviously starting right at the bottom and working your way up.
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You've you've also gone through quite a, a number of different
5:11
roles in your career and not obviously just obviously being a
5:13
sales representative, but you know, you made a move into
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marketing as well. You've held business managers
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titles. How have you found the sales and
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marketing, you know, kind of went hand in hand?
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Did you find the transition easy into that area?
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Well, well, sales and marketing are obviously they, they, they
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coexist with one another. And, and sales, if you really
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think about it, its core is it, it is a tactic, It is one
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tactical tool, probably the most effective tactical tool that any
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marketing organization can have to communicate a message to, to
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try and change behaviors. But it is just one tactic and
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tool beyond a variety of other promotional levers that are
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pulled. And so if you think about sales
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as a personal promotion, you have a human being delivering
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messages, delivering a story, moving a a customer along at
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buying journey. You also have what are called
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non personal promotional tactics in which obviously, as the name
6:17
suggests, there are are other means in which you're
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communicating the story, communicating a message around a
6:22
brand. This could be journal
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advertising, it could be online media, it could be social media,
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it could be print media, it could be marketplace education,
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lots of different tools. And so the hope here is you have
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a surround sound system in which you're constantly communicating
6:40
with a customer via the mechanism that they want to
6:43
digest that information, but marketing mores around the
6:48
strategy. So marketing sets the bigger
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picture strategy and then tool and then sales, as I mentioned
6:54
is, is a, is a tool to pull through that strategy at the
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customer level. And of course, as I've
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mentioned, it is usually the most effective tool to do so.
7:05
Absolutely perfect. Now as well as obviously working
7:10
in the US which you're of course from, you did make a move to
7:14
South America. And while while you're over at
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Biogen, did you find that to be a big difference in in what you
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have to do as a sales? I'm well obviously not a sales
7:25
representative, but as a sales leader coming from marketing,
7:30
you know, in those different geographical locations.
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Yeah. So I, I, I think the way that I
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would answer that the question is, is threefold.
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So number one, do you think about the general global pharma
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or biotech business, any company that has a desire to be a global
7:44
organization, There's three pillars of the business that you
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need to understand. You have to understand the US
7:50
business just because in in most, for most products, most
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companies, most disease states, the US business is going to
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drive the bulk of sales. And so it is a different market.
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It's a different beast as we say.
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And so it's really important to understand the nuances of the US
8:05
business. You also though need to
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understand the global business. So as companies strive to have
8:11
global brands, more times than not, what they do is they they
8:15
develop and build teams that will, that will drive as I've
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mentioned previously, this aggregate marketing strategy at
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a global scale. And they'll take insights and
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glean insights for many geographies to build this
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cohesive global marketing plan marketing strategy.
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That global strategy is then pushed down, if you will to a
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local level for execution and adaptation.
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And again the US is one part, but a big part of that local
8:44
adaptation. But of course you have the
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European markets, you have the Asian markets, you have Middle
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Eastern, Northern Africa, you have the Latin America,
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etcetera. And so when you think about
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wanting to become an executive, especially in a, in a global
9:01
biopharma organization, it's important that you can
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understand the three facets of the business, the US, the
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global, how they interplay, but also ex U.S. business as well.
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And so I had the opportunity during my time at Biogen to go
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down to South America and, and really lead the business as the
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general manager, managing director in, in the Latin
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America South of region. And that was just an amazing
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opportunity. I, I had never, I ended up
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hopping out of Buenos Rs Argentina.
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I'd never been to Argentina before.
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I, I had a limited understanding of, of the local markets, but
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I'm a strong understanding. I didn't speak the language.
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I, I didn't have any personal support system.
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And so it was a big change and, and I, I, I grew in leaps and
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bounds, not only in my professional career, but
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personally, you know, I, I tell people, if you want to learn a
9:59
lot about yourself, pick up your life and move, you know, 6000
10:02
miles away from home with, you know, by yourself, not knowing
10:06
anyone, be tasked with kind of turning around a business and
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you'll really learn a lot about who you are and, and what you're
10:14
made of. But that experience was just a
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wonderful experience, again, for both my professional growth but
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also my personal growth as well. That experience does sound
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really, really cool, but I also can imagine, as you mentioned,
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personally, quite challenging as well, especially being by
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yourself, not speaking the language.
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What's kept you motivated all these years?
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And you know that that could have been for some people, it
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could have been a bit of a breaking point.
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It could have. And for you obviously really
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kind of strengthened your skill set and areas like that.
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So you know, what has kept you motivated in in the industry?
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You know, you've not come from a scientific background.
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So it's definitely something that's a little bit different.
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Yeah, the pharma biotech industry is unique and
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different. And, and then I think any other
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industry of what really motivates me first and foremost
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is the potential impact that you can have on the life of a human
11:06
being. I mean, think about this for a
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second. We, we strive to develop
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medicines and the hope here is that you develop a medicine
11:15
addressing an unmet need within a particular disease arena.
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And if you do that and you deliver upon that goal, you will
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have the opportunity to impact the quality of life or
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potentially extend, you know, the life of an individual living
11:34
with a respective disease. And that is a, an enormous, as I
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think about just, you know, driving factors, that's just a,
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an enormous opportunity that you have day in and day out.
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Now, The thing is, as you think about this, more times than not,
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you'll never have the opportunity to directly meet
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that human being that you have an opportunity to, to influence
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or improve their life. But you know, it's there.
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And, and there's countless stories that I have in my career
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in which, you know, you've received unsolicited emails
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coming in from a patients who are on your medicines and they,
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they tell you about how the medicine has changed the lives.
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And, and for me, that that is really what drives me.
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I think the other thing to think about our business is that it's,
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it's intellectually challenging, right?
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I mean, we have an intersection of science and there's
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intersection of business and intersection of complex
12:30
regulatory environments. And we have to constantly find a
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way to mesh these, these, these three things together to, to
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develop a, a coherent business and develop a clear plan
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forward. And so it's intellectually
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stimulating and challenging for me.
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The other thing is I think about our business, you have to
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remember the pharma biotech world, it's very, it's very long
12:51
term work, right? If you're in, if you're someone
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who just is looking for instant gratification, this is not the
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industry for you to be in, right?
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The, the, the, the, the clinical development timelines are very,
13:06
very long. I mean, 10 plus years.
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We have I, I joke and say we're gluttons for punishment if we
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choose to get into this business because more times than not,
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unfortunately, the work that we do fails more often than it does
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succeeds. But it's, it's an arduous
13:22
process in which you're, you're constantly slowly moving things
13:28
down through phase one development, through Phase 2
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development, eventually hopefully to a phase three.
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And then you eventually have hopefully positive data.
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You have to file applications with the regulatory authorities
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and navigate that complex pathway.
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And then if you eventually get a medicine approved, you have, you
13:45
need to successfully launch that medicine, which takes time,
13:51
energy and effort. And, and, and it's, and it's
13:54
hard. I made most medicines that get
13:56
into the market, even in a commercial setting, don't meet
14:00
their, their, their, their, their launch goals and
14:04
objectives. And so it is a complex business,
14:08
but it's also business, as I'd mentioned at the outset is quite
14:11
rewarding. And you have the opportunity to
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just, you know, change the life of a human being.
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And I can't think of any Better Business to be it.
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Yeah, I completely agree. And you're not the first person
14:23
to give me that answer. And I think it's just such a a
14:26
great answer, especially, you know, if you're not maybe a
14:29
medical doctor or someone that is maybe a surgeon that's
14:33
actually operating on them, holding the lice in their hands.
14:36
But you know, you are making such a massive difference to
14:40
someone's life no matter where they are, and probably a lot
14:44
more people than than you can even think.
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So it is definitely really exciting.
14:50
You've been in obviously large farmers, you've been at Biogen,
14:53
you've been at Novartis. Then you made the move over to
14:57
smaller biotechs, probably a lot trickier to to work in.
15:04
How have you found the difference especially from from
15:06
a sales point of view, from a marketing point of view, I mean
15:09
just commercial in general, how have you found that that to be a
15:12
big change? Well, clearly there's a lot of
15:15
differences. I mean, the ultimate goal is the
15:18
same whether at a large pharma company like a Novartis or a
15:21
small, you know, small cap biotech startup organization.
15:25
The ultimate goal is the same again, right?
15:27
It's to develop innovative therapies that address an unmet
15:30
need and ensure that you can get that to a patient to change
15:33
their life. And so that is a constant
15:35
thread, whether at big pharma where they're at a small biotech
15:39
company, but that's probably where the similarities.
15:42
And you know, the, the large pharma organizations have
15:47
certainly some advantages. They're well resourced.
15:50
So you have lots of money and lots of people in order to
15:54
execute the work that needs to be done.
15:57
You have teams and armies of people.
15:59
You have teams and armies of experts via function by
16:02
function. You know, they, you have a
16:07
usually a very diverse and large pipeline and so there's a
16:11
diversify diversification of risk associated with those
16:15
respective companies. If you have one asset fail in a
16:18
pipeline, it doesn't really mean much.
16:22
Certainly some hurt more than others, but in the scheme of
16:24
things, if you're a Novartis and a program fails, then you just
16:29
kind of move on to the next, you know, but, but large farm also
16:34
comes with, you know, some downside there.
16:37
These are complex organizations. We, we, we compare them to, to,
16:43
to large, you know, tanker ships in the middle of the ocean.
16:47
You know, a, a big freight ship, if you will, does not turn on a
16:51
dime. It, it takes a long time to turn
16:54
that ship around. And the the same holds true for
16:57
these large pharma organizations.
16:59
So there's multiple layers of complexity.
17:03
There's usually multiple layers of sign off that needs to happen
17:06
before decisions can be made. They're not nimble.
17:11
And, and, and because of that, I think that that at times can
17:15
offer a strategic disadvantage. Now, on the biotech side, I
17:19
think this especially the smaller biotech, you know, the
17:22
opposite's hold true. So where the strength of, of
17:25
the, the, the large pharma is the resourcing and their degree
17:29
of specialty, that degrees of expertise at small pharma, you
17:32
usually have limited resources. So you have finite resources.
17:36
And so you have to really, it forces you to prioritize the
17:39
work that you do and to ensure that you're having maximum
17:42
impact utilizing the, the, the, the limited number of resources,
17:46
whether that be people or money that you have, you know, on, on,
17:51
on the positive side of things, though, these organizations
17:55
allow individuals to wear multiple hats.
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And so at a big pharma, your, your remit and scope is usually
18:01
very, very limited and focused. You have a job.
18:04
This is your job description. You're in this box.
18:07
That's just what you expect to do At biotech companies and
18:10
smaller organizations, you're going to be asked to do much
18:13
more than just a box. In fact, we look to hire people
18:17
that have the ability. We joke and we say we hire
18:19
brains, not bodies, right? We have, we, we look for people
18:22
with strong aptitude that can do multiple things, that can work
18:26
across multiple functions within a vertical, but also can, can
18:30
spread their own wings to learn other aspects of the business.
18:36
And of course, you know, the biotech and smaller companies,
18:39
it's, it's the decision making process is much faster, much
18:42
quicker. So you can pivot a much quicker,
18:45
you can get, you know, a small team in a room and a line on a
18:48
decision to say, OK, boom, let's go, let's drive forward.
18:51
So there's pros and cons on both sides.
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And I've enjoyed both aspects of my career.
18:56
But I think at this stage in my life, I, I really love building
18:59
and, and at biotech companies, you're, you're tasked with
19:02
building organizations, building culture, building vision and
19:06
building things from the ground up.
19:07
And that's really what I enjoy doing.
19:10
Amazing. Obviously you're a Chief
19:12
Operating officer now. So again as you just alluded to
19:16
wearing many multiple different hats compared to when you were
19:20
probably in, in the large farmer, you know you were in a
19:23
sales role leading up that that sort of team at Munich.
19:27
Now, how was that role different to what maybe you were used to
19:32
in the past? Well, yeah, I mean so you know
19:35
my role as President and Chief Operating Officer, I think I
19:38
equated to being the number 2 at the company.
19:41
So I work very closely with our or with our Co founder and CEO
19:45
to help set strategy and to to execute on that strategy.
19:49
I think maybe a little bit of the difference is that my focus
19:53
and my remit is a bit more on the day-to-day operation.
19:57
So I would say about 70% of our organization today reports into
20:01
me. So I really have an eye on
20:05
day-to-day execution to ensure that we were driving towards
20:08
accomplishing our, our goals and objectives, in addition to other
20:13
responsibilities like, you know, working with, with, with our CEO
20:17
to, to fundraise and, and to be front, front facing to the
20:22
investor community, being front faced and, and driving business
20:28
development discussions and partnership discussions,
20:30
etcetera. So you know, my, my remit is
20:33
kind of broad. I think is, as you think about a
20:36
chief operating officer role in general, it's, it's, it's unique
20:42
company by company and it's unique in terms of which
20:46
functions ultimately report up to a chief operating officer.
20:50
But generally speaking, this, this role is kind of a, a Jack
20:55
of all trades and they're really tasked with ensuring that the
20:58
company is, is running very smoothly on a day-to-day basis.
21:02
Again, this this can change company by company, but the
21:05
generally speaking that's, that's the overall remit as
21:07
compared to again, when it a larger company, you, you may
21:11
oversee multiple functions, but you have a very, very clear
21:15
scope on on what you're expected to deliver a week in and week
21:18
out. Perfect.
21:20
SO obviously I'm coming towards an end now, but if you were to
21:24
give advice to anyone starting in the biotech space,
21:29
predominantly in sales, obviously I'm sure you still
21:32
have that sales Rep in your call and going through your day
21:36
today. What advice would you give
21:38
someone starting in the biotech? Because it's probably a lot
21:41
different from when you started, and then you know that roller
21:44
coaster doesn't stop. So I would say, you know, the,
21:47
the world as we know it in terms of the pharma, biotech industry,
21:50
I mean, it certainly has changed since I started 20 / 25 years
21:53
ago, but much of the business has stayed the same.
21:57
And so the advice I would give anyone starting in this industry
22:01
is the first of all, you know, don't think about just short
22:04
term. Think about a much broader long
22:06
term picture around a career that could span multiple decades
22:14
in an industry again, in which you can impact the life of of a
22:17
human being on some bits of advice from my side is first and
22:22
foremost, you have to learn the science, You have to learn the
22:25
data, you have to learn the biology.
22:27
Everything we do in this industry is rooted in in science
22:30
and data. So if you don't have a thorough
22:33
understanding of the science of the data of the biology of of
22:37
the of the products that your company is working on and the
22:40
disease states in which your company is working on, I think
22:44
you'll be at a disadvantages. So regardless of what your role
22:46
is, whether it's in in sales, whether you get an entry level
22:50
job, as you know, an administrative assistant,
22:54
whether you're working in manufacturing or working on the
22:59
medical, you have to understand the science.
23:01
And so again, this doesn't doesn't mean you have to get a
23:03
PhD and everything, but you have to have a core understanding of
23:07
of the science, the data, the biology, etcetera.
23:10
The second bit of advice that I would give to people is get as
23:14
close to the customer as you can.
23:17
I mean think about what we're trying to do.
23:19
We try influence behaviors everyday for treating clinicians
23:23
so that when that patient presents that could benefit from
23:26
the medicine that we've hopefully developed and gotten
23:29
approved that that treating clinician makes a decision to
23:32
prescribe our product versus maybe a competitor's product.
23:36
And so and and so it it's important that you really
23:40
understand what makes the customer take in the in this
23:42
case, it could be a physician, but also it requires that we
23:46
also think on the other side of the table a customer is also
23:49
that the patients that and that we hope to serve.
23:52
So keeping your ear to the ground and meeting with advocacy
23:55
organization, meeting with patients, trying to understand
23:58
what, what motivates them, what they're looking for in their
24:03
disease journey, their treatment journey, etcetera.
24:06
And then of course, you have payers as well.
24:08
I mean, a medicine is only as good as a medicine that's
24:11
reimbursed that you can have the best medicine in the world.
24:14
But if a, if a payer won't pay for it, if in the United States
24:18
that's going to be a, a commercial or, or government
24:21
insurance company, and in Europe, it could be obviously a
24:24
respective country. If they're not going to pay for
24:27
it, then then it's for naughty. And so you have to really
24:29
understand the nuances of of what's important to payers as
24:33
well. So keep your ear to the ground
24:34
to the customers, whether it's treating clinicians, whether
24:37
it's patients, whether it's payers, trying to glean insights
24:40
about what's most important to them, I think will make you more
24:43
successful in your career. I think the other thing you need
24:47
to think about also again, and this is just career advice in
24:49
general, but it holds true for the biotech pharma sector as
24:52
well. As, you know, we, we chase
24:56
titles all too often. And I get it.
24:58
People want to be recognized for the effort that they've done.
25:01
They want to be recognized with promotion, vertical promotions
25:05
to, to, to again, to ensure that they show a continued progress
25:09
of their career. They want increased
25:11
compensation. I get it, I understand that, but
25:14
but let's not, let's not ensure that that is your, your only
25:19
focus day-to-day, right? I think you need to choose
25:22
learning over over just title and promotion.
25:26
There were many, many times during my career in which I took
25:30
a vertical, excuse me, a horizontal role, a, a, a
25:33
different role that didn't give me any increase in title, that
25:36
didn't give me any increase in compensation, but but providing
25:41
me a more well-rounded approach to the totality of the business.
25:45
And as I thought about my career, I was very meticulous in
25:48
where I wanted to go and the steps I needed to take to get to
25:52
where I wanted to go. This doesn't mean don't focus on
25:55
your career. Don't have a path for where what
25:57
it is you want to accomplish and where it is you want to go.
26:01
But don't be so focused on just vertical promotions.
26:04
Think about horizontal promotions or movements that
26:06
will give you a more broader understanding of the totality of
26:10
the business because it's all times those moves or at times
26:13
even a step back that that will then propel you two or three
26:16
steps forward. That will that will
26:18
differentiate you versus maybe a peer or someone else when you're
26:23
thinking about that promotion or, or that next stage in your
26:26
career. And then the last thing I think
26:28
I would say is, is twofold is build credibility and build a
26:33
network. And So what it what does this
26:34
mean? Building credibility means
26:37
delivering what you can deliver, honoring timelines, doing what
26:42
you say you're going to do, delivering good work, keeping
26:45
your head down, being a great teammate, showing up with great
26:49
behaviors everyday. All of this will define your
26:52
credibility as an individual. And trust me, if you show up
26:55
every day with great attitude, you're a great teammate, people
26:58
enjoy working with you, you deliver on time, high quality
27:01
work. You're going to get these
27:03
promotions overtime. I guarantee you that anyone
27:06
would love to have you as part of their organization, but also
27:09
build your network. People love to think that it's
27:12
the manager's job to coach and develop some on it gets and to
27:15
get them promotion. It's not the onus and the
27:17
responsibility is is on you as an individual.
27:20
So you have to build your network.
27:22
Build a network internally within your organization.
27:25
Ensure that people understand who you are and what your brand
27:28
is all about, but also build your network outside of the
27:30
organization as well, because that may open up some wonderful
27:33
possibilities and some wonderful doors.
27:36
So that's the advice I'd give anyone starting in this field.
27:38
But it's, it's a wonderful field.
27:40
I've been blessed to be in this field.
27:42
It's given me a lot of opportunities.
27:44
You've mentioned to travel the world to see different parts of
27:48
the world, to see different aspects of of the business
27:51
geographically, but also to understand both strategic
27:55
aspects of the business and executional aspects of the
27:57
business. But most importantly, again, I
27:59
think coming back to this, it's allowed me the opportunity to
28:02
have a positive impact on the life of a human being.
28:05
And again, that's what I, that's why I get up every day.
28:07
It's work. That's why I work the long hours
28:09
that I work to have the opportunity to potentially
28:12
change someone's life. And so I'm very blessed for
28:15
that. I.
28:16
Absolutely love that advice. I think anyone that listens to
28:19
this should really, really take a lot of advice from that.
28:24
You know, I see it as well in our job that people do sometimes
28:28
title chase, as you mentioned there, and I think, you know,
28:33
impacting a human's life, as you've just mentioned, you might
28:37
need to take a little side step, do a little bit more learning.
28:40
I think it will be valuable for anyone to create always, you
28:44
know, to do that. Absolutely.
28:47
But thank you so much for taking the time and it's been a
28:50
pleasure to have you on learning all about your background.
28:53
So thank you so much. Thank you for having me, I
28:56
really enjoyed it. Thank you.