Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1207 - Listen Like You Mean It: How to Hear What Your Child Isn't Saying

Transcript

#1207 - Listen Like You Mean It: How to Hear What Your Child Isn't Saying · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I wrote a book a few years ago called Misconnection,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Why your teenage daughter hates You, expects the world and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: needs to talk. When I surveyed and interviewed around four
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: hundred Australian teenage girls, the overwhelming thing they wanted parents
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to know was I just need you to listen to me.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Today's podcast is about what we're doing wrong and how
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: to get listening right. Hello and welcome to the Happy
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Families Podcast. My name is doctor Justin Coulson. It's real
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: And for your weekend listening pleasure, I have an author, facilitator,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: speaker NLP. That's Neurolinguistic Programming coach, a man who has
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: worked as a successful business consultant, leadership coach, a master's
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: degree in communication management. His name is Ross Judd. His
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: book is called Listening, a Guide to Building Deeper Connections.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: So good to have you on the podcast today, Ross,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you for taking the time out. Here's my first
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: question for you, why listen? Why listen? Like as parents,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: as adults, when we're talking to people, we demand it,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: our kids need it. Why listen?
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: The short answer is because it's the only way to
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: communicate to that person that you understand, and it's the
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: only way to connect with them at a deep and
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: genuine level. There's a quote that I use a lot
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: that I got from Stephen Covey that talks about understanding
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: how much we crave understanding. It's the deepest hunger of
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: the human heart. And so that ability if we can
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: learn to listen effectively, and part of that skill needs
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: to be rephrasing what that person said. I call it summarizing.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: If we learn to summarize what that person has said,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: we'll then demonstrate to that person that we've understood and
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: there's nothing they crave more.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: So what you're saying, I see what I did there.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: There's the Submary right away. I feel like I'm on
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: fire already. So what you're saying is that when people
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: feel I'm Stephen Covey. I think it was him that
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: said the greatest human need is to be.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Understood something like that.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Said, Yeah, And what you're really saying is when we
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: give somebody the honor of being heard, they know that
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: they matter to us and their life is important, and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that we get where they're coming.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: From exactly, and we're acknowledging them.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Walk me through this in a really concrete way. When
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: have you listened and seen it make a difference.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: There's a great example I use with my daughter. So
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: one of the things I talk about is that this
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: is a specific context. So the depth of listening we're
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: talking about is not something you're going to do every day,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: day to day. It's too much. So you will need
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: to look for the signs for is this a little
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: bit different? Is there a need here that I can satisfy.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: And I had a situation like that with my daughter
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: where she started hanging around in the door out of
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: my office, and that was unusual behavior, and that's important
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: to notice. She normally just wanted to be and she
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: was about ten years old at the time. So I
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: got out of my chair sat on the floor because
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to be at my desk, and she
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: did the same. She came and sat opposite me, and
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: we looked at each other, and I was determined not
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: to make any of our normal mistakes, which is to
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: take over the conversation and start talking. So I just
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: waited and she eventually started talking. And my objective is
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: to let her talk and get to the point where
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I can summarize, and the rule I have is trying
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: not to change the direction of this conversation. So I
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: just encouraged her with phrasers like now, tell me more, Okay,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: what else, whatever, something along those lines, and she eventually
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: started talking about kids at school that, in her words,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: were being mean to her, and my brain went nuts.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: You know, I had all sorts of things in my
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: head about bullying, about stuff that had happened to me
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: when I was at school, all kinds of stuff. But
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I stayed with her. Now I'll cut this story short.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: That took a while, and I summarized what she was saying,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: and she eventually got to a point where she asked
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: for some suggestions with that issue. So I gave her
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: a couple of suggestions. Have you thought about making other friends?
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Do you think you should talk to the teachers? Have
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: you confronted them about what they're doing? And she'd done
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: all those things, so this was all under control. She
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: ten year old. She was on top of it, and
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: it was a wonderful experience for me to realize just
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: who she was, how thoughtful, how well she was managing
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: that situation. In those suggestions, I've kind of ran out
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: of ideas, and she was still asking for suggestions, and
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of looking at her and I thought, okay,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: well I've run out of ideas, and so what I
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: do in that situation is I defer to somebody who's
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: smarter than me. So let's ask your mum what she thinks.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: And that got a really bad reaction. No no, no,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: no no, Please don't tell mom, Please don't tell mum
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: about this. So that was another trigger. This time, the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: trigger was emotion that Okay, there's something serious going on here,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: and it helped me realize that that opening conversation about
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: school that she had under control wasn't the thing that
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: had caused her to hang around my doorway. It was
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: now this conversation. So, to keep this story short, what
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: happened out of that? That took a while. This was slower,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: she was harder to draw comments out of. Eventually she
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: opened up that she didn't appreciate some of the playful teasing.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: So some of her mother's playful teasing was having an
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: adverse effect, and she just didn't feel like she could
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: talk to her without her mother trivializing it or you know,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: just teasing her or doing something like that, and of
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: course I knew that was wrong. She absolutely could talk
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: to her mother, but I couldn't say that, didn't want
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: to disagree, didn't want to take it off course. Eventually
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: she got to a point where she asked me what
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I thought she should do about that situation, and we
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: worked through a process where events the eye went and
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: shared the feedback with her mum. Her mum was in
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the bedroom down the hall, and as I got there,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Emily had followed me down the passageway, and anyway, they
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: ended up reuniting, and it was a wonderful connection that
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: was reborn between the two of them, and it lasts
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: this day and their thickest theason. The daughter I'm talking
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: about is now in the mid twenties, so this is
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: a a while ago this story occurred. But a couple
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: of points to take out of that story and their
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: points that I'm trying to emphasize in this book. First
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: is that when somebody needs to talk, needs to be heard,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: needs to be understood, they will give you some kind
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: of clue. So in this case, it was unusual behavior.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: It might be emotion, it might be something else that
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: you're not doing this with strangers. You're doing this with
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: people that you know, and you'll be able to tell,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: so you'll be able to tell that this is a
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: bit different. Then one of the rules is in this situation,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: they never tell you the real issue. So if you
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: take the conversation, of course, you'll get basically, if you
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: dive into that first issue, do all of our classic mistakes,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: you're going to miss that deeper issue that they are
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: desperate to talk to you about. And so this idea
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: of listening in a deep and meaningful way in those moments.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: We're not doing this all the time. We'll do this
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: whenever we see the opportunity, which might only be once
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: or twice a year. It might just be once once
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: a month. If it happened once a month, it would
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: be happening a lot in my experience. So, yeah, the
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: point of that story is then when you get to
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that deeper issue, you create a connection that's just wonderful,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: absolutely wonderful.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, here's what I pulled out of that number one.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Just wait. Yes, it's so so common that kids will say,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: my parents aren't really great at listening. They're really great
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: at hearing me say something and then telling me what
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: to do or really great at talking. Something that you
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: said was that you let her guide the conversation. I'm
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: using my words, not yours. There's a phrase that I
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: will use when I'm talking to parents about this, and
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: that is that we should take the ride, not the wheel.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: She's the one that's steering it. She's the one that's
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: determining where to go. Our jobs to sit in the
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: passenger seat and let them drive, because they will eventually
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: eventually drive us to the destination of their choosing the
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: one that they really need to get to in their
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: own time. And the third thing, actually, there were two
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: other things that I picked up as I was listening
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: to your story Ross. The first is that the answers
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: are inside the kids. We've just she'd already figured out
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: all the answers to the initial issue, but even that
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: second issue. As you worked with her, she became willing
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: to number one, listen to you, but number two figure
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: out for herself what felt right, which did mean going
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: to her mum. But ultimately, this idea that you've come
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: back to a couple of times, often when there's a
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: big thing going on, our children will disguise it, they'll
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: hide it. It might be hidden in behavior. It might be
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: hidden in false stories, it might be hidden in tired
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: or I just want to play on my phone. But
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: there's that underlying issue and I don't Again, I don't
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: quite remember the words you used. But I encourage parents
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: to simply say, Okay, is there anything else you want
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: to chat about? Is there anything else you want to
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: tell me? Because wow, there's always that thing there, but
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: listening to what you said as well. Not everything needs
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: to be emotion coached. One of the things that I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: see happening with the gentle parenting craze that has swept
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: across families over the last few years is this feeling
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: that every time a child has an emotion, we need
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to get down and try to unpack and therapeutically address
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: everything that's happening in their lives. And sometimes it's okay
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: as a parent, say come on, let's just go like
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: you don't have to do this all the time.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I totally agree, And it's hard for parents. The you know,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: when that child is born, they are completely dependent on you,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: so you are all things to that individual, and then
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: there's a whole process they're going to go through, is
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: they evolve and become their own person, and I think
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: one of the challenges for parents is to be absolutely
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: enthralled by that. Like I would encourage parents to look
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: for that, you know that learn about them, and these
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: conversations are the best way to learn about them. I
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: learned so much in that example about my daughter and
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: just how capable and assured and you know, how wonderful
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: she is. But it's hard because you know, I want
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: to be the you know, we're in control just about
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: every aspect of their life early in their life, and
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: then we're giving up that control. But the idea is
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: we're creating a human being, and we should be absolutely
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: fascinated by that human being because they're just amazing.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: His name is Ross Judd. His book is called Listening,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. Let's talk about the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: biggest mistakes parents make when it comes to listening. We've
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: already sort of addressed several of them, and you just
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: raised another one as you talk talked about control. But
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: if you were to put together your list of the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: top five things to stop doing when you're supposed to
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: be listening, what would you.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Describe top five things when you're supposed to be listening?
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I'll come back. First is recognize the context. So listening
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: for me, we use the word listening, We just use
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: that one word or you know, one hundred different contexts.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: And first is recognize the context. Is this different? Have
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: they behaved differently? Do we need a different approach, are
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: they in a mood? Whatever it might be, is this different? So,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: and then make your decisions about what you need to
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: do based on the context. So, if you're listening and
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: you want to get to that deeper issue, then you've
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: got to stop almost everything that you do, asking questions,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: telling stories. You know, we love to share our I
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: had that experience, you know, to share those stories, being opinionated,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: telling them what they should do. The action planning. I've
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: even in workshops talked about this idea of getting to
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: the deeper issue and had the action planning. It was
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: a guy specialists. That's going to take too long, you're kidding, right,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: like just getting to the wanting to just resolve and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: be effective and get it done. All of these are
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: mistakes trying to solve that first problem. For all of
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: its mistake, the only thing that works in this setting
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: is listen, invite, and then summarize what they're saying it,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: keep it simple, repeat back what they're saying, and do
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: your best not to do anything that changes the direction
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: of the conversation.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Are there any other big mistakes that you see parents
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: or couples make when it comes to dealing with emotional
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: conversations or just even I know you said we're talking
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: about a deeper form of listening, but even listening in general,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: anything else sort of stand out to ross?
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, absolutely, And it can all come down to
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: one thing. What happens in the human in our system
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: is that when somebody else talks, our brain talks, right,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: and it talks and you know this constantly. Yeah, I
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: mean the stats I've seen is that our brain can
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: think at ten times the speed that someone else can talk. So,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: just while I'm saying this sentence, you've had ten other thoughts, right,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And some of that will be your experience, some of
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: that will be other people you've interviewed, Some of that
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: will be all sorts of things. That is just the
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: biggest problem that we have because it generates all of
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: the big mistakes. And so whatever it might be, even
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: if you're in the kitchen and the kid says something,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: your brain will react and go down a track, or
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: your partner says something and your brain reacts and goes
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: down a track, and you could be completely fabricating something
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: that just doesn't exist, that issue of your inner thoughts
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: going the way they go.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just Yeah, as a compulsive communicator, which
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I am, interviewing people on my podcast is one of
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the hardest things that I have to do. And the
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: reason that it's so hard is because I'm forced to listen.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: And I have to listen because otherwise I miss something
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: that you say, which means the conversation doesn't flow, or
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I ask a question that you've already answered that there's
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: somebody and yet I'm listening to what you're saying and
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, Oh, there's a great line, or there's a
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: great quote, or there's a great story, or there's a
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: great principle that I could share that would add to
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: this or let me there's this experience or I mean,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: my mind is constantly and it's also hang on how
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: we're going for time and at the level the audio levels, right,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: there's there's the multitasking. Monkey brain goes absolutely bonkers when
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: we're dealing with emotion. On top of that, like if
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: we're talking to one of our kids, we're talking to
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: her husband and wife, our partner. It's it's so hard
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: to stay in the moment, isn't it. It's so hard
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: to be right there and simply focused on what they're
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: saying and letting them say it. It's got to be
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: on the hardest, and especially with kids or a partner,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to not take control.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would say there's probably not many things
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: that are harder to do in our experience, like as humans,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: that has to be one of the hardest things that
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: we could ever do. That ability to just keep your
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: mind out of the equation and focus on what they're
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: saying is just incredibly difficult. And the only way I've
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: personally found to do it is by this concept of summarizing.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: So when I really need to listen to someone, it's
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: like a conscious thought process that almost hurts, you know.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I'm concentrating on what they're saying and repeating it back
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: in my head so I can repeat it back when
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: they're finished, and summarize what they've said when they're finished.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It's the only way I've found to quieten all of
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I refer to them as monkeys as well. It's like
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: you've got monkeys chattering away in your brain. It's the
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: only way to quiet those voices is.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Just let's talk about that summarizing thing for just a moment.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: It's clearly key to effective listening. You've highlighted it, you've
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: written about it in the book, and yet it feels
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: so techniquey, it feels so strategy ish. Now, I also
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: have taught this many, many many times to people and
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: also help them to make it feel not false or
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: not feel like a technique. Psychologists would normally call it
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: active listening. That is, somebody says something and then you
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: say it back to them. What have you found to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: be an effective way to help people to share that
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: summary in a way that doesn't feel like a technique,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: that doesn't feel false, but rather feels like a genuine
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: contribution and even a gift to the conversation.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Great, So look I have two responses to that,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: and you're right, this skill has been around a long time.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Active listening paraphrasing Stephen Covey call that faithful translation. There's
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: lots of names for it. My first comment in response
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: to that is, you have to remember their brain is
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: very occupied. They're thinking through what they're saying, they're saying
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: it slowly, they won't be as sensitive to it feeling
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: like a technique as you think. Most of the time,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: they don't actually notice you notice, like if it genuinely
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: is a technique, you're doing it because you've learned it
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: as a technique, you're feeling that. But they won't be necessarily.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Their brain's pretty occupied with all the stuff that's going
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: on in their head. And then if you repeat something
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: back to them that vaguely resembles what they've said, they
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: will appreciate it so much. And in my experience, the
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: minute you start summarizing or paraphrasing, they'll if you get
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: it slightly wrong, they'll jump in, cut you off and
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: correct you because they want you to understand. They're desperty
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you to understand. So that's the first one. The second
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: response to that is, it's actually why I just use
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: the term summarizing. That the most effective way I've found.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm kind of hesitant to say this, but I
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: like what I call a summary question. So it's actually
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: a check as opposed to a technique or I'm just
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: repeating back what you've said. It's more of a So
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: you're saying that X Y Z. Now you're saying that
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: couples will struggle with this kind of technique, or somebody
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: using this technique may feel like it's a bit false
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: or fake.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: And my response is yes, and then you know.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly, And so when you phrase it as a question,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: the person does respond very naturally, and it feels natural. Now,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the reason I hesitate to suggest a question is because
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the minute people get the chance to ask a question,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: they tend to then add other information into that question
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: and take the conversation a different direction. So that's the risk.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: The summary question is beautiful, it works very well, but
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: you've got to be very disap and about just summarizing
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and not adding in. Like you know, if your child
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: came and said, oh, I'm thinking about dropping out of university,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: and okay, so you're thinking about dropping out of you
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: any what else are you going to do? Suddenly, now
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: we're down that track, that's right.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: And you'led and already yeah, exactly.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: May I add one other strategy that I encourage chorus
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: to do. Tell me what you think of this one
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and tell me if this if this fits well with
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: your model. I encourage parents to say what they see,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: which is shorthand for essentially describing what they've just encountered.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: So if we go to the I want to drop
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: out of school situation, I'm going to look at my
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: child and say, it sounds like school's really frustrating for
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: you at the moment, or it sounds like you've had
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: enough of this environment and you'd rather be anywhere but there.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: And so I'm saying what I'm seeing. If I walk
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: into the room and the kids are fighting, I'm going
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to walk in and say, I can see two very
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: upset children in front of me right now. And so
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm not sitting boundaries, I'm not derailing. I'm just
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: saying what I see, which is kind of a It's
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a summary of where we are just now, and it
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: gives the kids an opportunity to give me the feedback
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: and to me where they're going. How does that? How
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: does that work for you? And is there anything that
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: you don't like about it?
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: So it works really well, And yeah, I would probably
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: use a slightly different approach to for me, it's you're
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: taking a little bit of a guess and that may
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: or may not be accurate.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: But as you said before, they always correct you if
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: you're wrong.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Correct, that's right. And so that's why it's not such
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: a big deal. And the fact that you're there and
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: you're engaged and you're having a guess. I emphasize that
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: big time. Don't worry about it if you get it wrong,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: because they are desperate to correct you.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: That's right every time.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: So that example you used where you know I can
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: see some yet you're frustrated, I would just they came
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: and said, I'm thinking about dropping out of school. I
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: would keep it much more open. So, okay, tell me more.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Tell me more. Yeah, that's what you're thinking of. Yeah,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: yeahudn't use it in that context, to be honest, but yeah, yeah, Russ,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: let's still a lightning round. I have a handful of fun. Well,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: it's a provocative and some of them are quite thoughtful
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: questions for you, And what I'd love you to do
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: is answer them in one or two words or sentences,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: keep it really short. People really struggle with this. I'm
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: not gonna lie, but let's see how we go. What's
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: the weirdest thing that you've learned by truly listening to someone.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: The weirdest thing is the way people interpret information and
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I hear them answer a question that it's like
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: sorry or tell me something, and I'm like, I would
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: never have interpreted.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: That like that. Yeah, that's not the question I asked.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: How did you.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: End up there? How did you get there? Yeah?
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: If listening was a superpower, what would be its kryptonite?
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Talking?
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Hmm? Okay, I would go with tech, but I think
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: you're probably right with talking between your ears and your mouth.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Which one do you think most people need to upgrade?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: There is?
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I had a feeling you'd say that, Yeah, what's a
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: sign that someone is pretending to listen but actually isn't.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Look at it their phone or doing anything that's distracting
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: that is a distraction for them? Or if you watch them,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: you can just see they're busting to say something right right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: that's that's a clue.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: They're not in the going ha ha. But they're really
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: almost almost jumping into your lap to talk.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And that means something's triggered in their brain
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: and they just want to say it.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I hope you like this. Next lightning round question, this
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: was my favorite one of all. If you could magically
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: make everyone in the world really listen, to one person
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: for five minutes. Who would you want them to listen
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: to their partner?
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Huh, that's my first thought. It's their partner. Yep.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: What's the most dangerous phrase that indicates that someone has
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: stopped listening?
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Whatever?
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. I
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: was going with, if you would just listen to me
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: for a moment. But whatever is that? That's there's such
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: an awfulness to that one. How would our political landscape
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: change if politicians were physically unable to speak until they
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: had fully understood the other's argument.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I would love that so much. I actually think at
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: a deep level, if we listened to each other, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: particularly in politics, we could find a much better solution.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I actually think the political landscape would be that they
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: would actually work towards what's best for the country rather
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: than what's best for them and their party.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Here's my last lightning round question for you. What is
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: one sound that you wish more people would stop and
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: truly listen to?
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, one sound. It would be some sort of vocal utterance,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: and it would be something hesitant, like a sound that
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: just but I can't put it down to one specific sound,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: but something that's unusual for that person and makes it
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: clear that they're hesitant, or that they're unsure of themselves,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: or that there's something else here could just be or
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah. Sorry, that's not a great answer. Ross.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: This is my last question for you as we discuss
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: your book, Listening a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. How
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: can we listen better? If I'm a mum or a dad,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: a husband or a wife or a partner listen to
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: this podcast interview. There's already been a whole lot of
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: really useful nuggets, but how can we listen better?
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I would put that in three steps. First one is,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: don't try to do it all the time. Don't try
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: to listen better every single minute of every day. That's
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: just late. You know, that's just too hard. So look
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: for and recognize the moments. Look for those special moments
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: when you can tell there's a deeper issue. There's a
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: whole chapter dedicated to explaining what they are. And there's
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: lots of clues and hints that people give you, and
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: the most common one is either emotion or that they're
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: behaving in an unusual way. Second one is, then when
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: you engage in that moment, just engage just be quiet,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: shut up, let them talk, and just use neutral tell
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: me more, and then when they start talking, summarize. That
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: would be it for me. Three simple steps. Recognize this
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: is a moment when I can do something different and
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: really connect. Just engage with that person. Put away the phone,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: put away the laptop, stop whatever you're doing, and then summarize.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: When they start opening up, summarize what they're saying.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Ross Jad the author of Listening, a Guide to building
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Deeper Connections. It's been a pleasure listening to you today
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: on the Happy Families podcast.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you, It's been awesome.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: If you'd like more information about Ross's book, Listening, we
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: will link to it in the show notes. The Happy
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: If you'd like more information and more resources to make
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: your family happier, check out Ross's book or visit Happy
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Families dot com dot a u mm hmm.