Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 914: Bounties on Wolf Hunters, A Jeopardy Contestant Exposes Himself, and Leprosy from Armadillos

Transcript

Ep. 914: Bounties on Wolf Hunters, A Jeopardy Contestant Exposes Himself, and Leprosy from Armadillos · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the News Show.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Today, we're going to talk about armadillos spreading leprosy. What
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: we've got, some good news for hound hunters Alberta, and
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: some troubling news for Wyoming wolf hunters. Steve gets the
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: scoop on the latest in grizzly bear management. A Jeopardy
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: contestant exposes himself, but not in the way that you
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: might think.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: And Nate has a segment about.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: A record carp that Brody is very, very skeptical about.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: And with that we're onto our news news now.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: If you can't tell from the past thirty six seconds,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Steve is out again today. He's still up in the
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: High Arctic adventuring around. He posted a photo of a
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: giant cod that he caught, which made all of us
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: very jealous. So I'm hosting today joined by Seth Spencer,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Cal Nate and Brody. Steve will be back soon soon,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: but we've made maybe got one two weeks. Two weeks
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: from now, he'll be on the News Show. So you know,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: if you don't like this program, when Steve's not here
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: hanging there, we'll fix you up.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: It might be better, it might be better. We'll see
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: how today go Yeah, Spencer.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: We have two meat Eater store events happening. The first
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: one is August thirteenth at the Milwaukee meat Eater store
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: from six pm to eight pm. I will be hosting
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: a game of trivia at the store. There will be
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: prizes for first, second, and third place. The grand prize
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: is a one thousand dollars gift card. Yeah, somebody say, wow, yeah,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: we got you got to be there in person. You
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: gotta be there in person. Everybody who shows up that night.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: It's a fifteen percent discount that's only good for that night.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: In the store. You can have teams up to four
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: people playing. Randall takes that very seriously. Nobody try to
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: sneak in there with.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Five hard cap.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Nobody using cell phones. The event is free, but you
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: need to sign up ahead of time to reserve a spot.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Go to the medeater dot com slash Events Again August
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: thirteenth at the Milwaukee store from six pm to eight pm.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Then on August fifteenth, we are opening the med Eater
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: store in Minneapolis at fiftieth and France. It's the grand
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: opening That Saturday, Me, Clay, Brent, and Tony will be
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: there from ten am to two pm. First one hundred
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: and fifty people get a gift, and there will be
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: prizes giving away every hour. That's at our Minneapolis store
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: grand opening August fifteenth, And if you miss me there,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna go to the Twins game that night.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: It's two dollars beers, so I can't miss that. I'd
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: be losing money by not going. So you can find
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: me at the Twins game. If you don't see.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Me at the grand O, that's like normal baseball.
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: Beers, are they?
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Well, I would guess up there the Great North, they
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: would have Miller lte Coors Light, Bush Light.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all of your favorites. What's the format for the
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: trivia game?
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be twenty questions. We'll probably do
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: four rounds of five questions, take a slight break, bring
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: your scorecards up to me so we can grade those,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: and we'll get updates after every five questions.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Very nice.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: What do you think of that?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I like it. I like it.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: It'll move quickly, but I think in person trivia game,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: it's only fun if you can get a running score.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Doors open at six first trivia question is gonna be
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: read at six point thirty. You need to sign up
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: ahead of time the medieater dot com slash events fun Stuff.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Speaking of fun stuff, I am pleased to announce that
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: the latest edition of Meat Eater's American History, Volume four
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: is going to drop on October twentieth. So this is
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: the official announcement that that is forthcoming release on October twentieth.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: This is Meet Eaters America History the Alaskans eighteen ninety
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: six to nineteen forty one.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: It's going to.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Cover trappers in the interior of Alaska between the Klondike
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Gold Rush and World War Two.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: This is dog.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Sleds, riverboats, bears, moose, caribou, lots of fish, and trapping
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: fur bears for the fine fur market. This is a
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: period of history that Steve got really into just in
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: his extracurricular reading, and he decided that this needed to
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: be the subject of our next book. I didn't know
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: that much about it, and the more I read, the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: more fascinating it was. So keep your eyes peeled for that.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: And if you haven't listened to the first three, let
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: me encourage you to do so. You don't have to
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: listen to them to enjoy volume four. But highly encouraged,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: highly recommend.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: Its volume four done.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: No, okay, no, thanks for resking that.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Yes until twenty Yeah, we got we got to turn
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: the files in a little before that.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: But uh, it'll get done. It'll get done. I have
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: every confidence.
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: That time period you probably get some good insights into
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: adaptive technology. Oh yeah, creeping into the wilderness.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Early outboard motors.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Guys just getting so mad at outboard motors that they
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: just sing them or throw them on the sandbar because
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: they're not worth it. That still happens in there. The
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Ruskies are in there for a little. They sort of
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: are in there for the prehistory. Lots of surplus military rifles,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: as you might imagine in like the twenties and thirties,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: lots of guys just it's it's like.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: A very different sort of modern story. I mean.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: The funny thing is when you look at this, these
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: these people are living in a world that resembles Lewis
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: and the Lewis and Clark era in a lot of ways.
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: Like Undiscovered Frontier.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: They're in places that they don't have maps for there,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: they're hunting and fishing for their own food, they're making
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: some of their own clothes. Like it's a very primitive
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: hard scrabble existence. But at the same time, like the
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Empire State building is being built, there's like professional.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: Baseball, and that's wild to think about it.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like a really interesting contrast between what's
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: happening and the rest of the country and what's happening
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: inti Alaska during the first couple decades of the twentieth century.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: That's the White fang Era as well. If you liked
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: that book that was published in nineteen oh six, it's
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: about that part of the world in the eighteen nineties.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jack London was We talked a little bit about
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Jack London in one of the chapters when we're describing
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: the gold rush. But if you don't have a sense
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: of scale for how many people flooded up into British
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Columbia Yukon Territory in Alaska during the during the days
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: of the Klondike gold Rush, it's unbelievable, just a flood
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: of people. And then some of them stuck around and
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you know, they didn't make a ton of money trapping,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: or they didn't a ton of money mining for gold,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: but a lot of them turned to trapping as a
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: way to support themselves.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: And so that's really the story of this book. So
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that's what I got.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: October twentieth.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: October twentieth, keep your eyes peeled and now your news.
• 7:20
  Speaker 7: We're going to talk about alpha gal and treatments for it.
• 7:24
  Speaker 7: So if you hadn't heard recently, Steve hosted Burkhard Bilger
• 7:27
  Speaker 7: on the Interview Show to cover ticks and alpha gal.
• 7:30
  Speaker 7: If you don't know what alpha gal is, it's not
• 7:32
  Speaker 7: a gen Z term for boss women or something like that.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: Good one.
• 7:36
  Speaker 7: I've we had a lot of comments about that that
• 7:38
  Speaker 7: people were confused.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: On before they listen to the episode. Yes, now they know.
• 7:42
  Speaker 7: It is a tick bite induced syndrome that causes an
• 7:45
  Speaker 7: allergy to red meat and dairy products.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: It's pretty mysterious.
• 7:48
  Speaker 7: Bill Gates may or may not be involved, but at
• 7:51
  Speaker 7: this point the treatments are minimal. But we had a
• 7:54
  Speaker 7: lot of comments and people write in with stories about
• 7:58
  Speaker 7: successful treatments through acupon, which personally I'm very skeptical of,
• 8:03
  Speaker 7: as is Steve and a couple other people. But we
• 8:05
  Speaker 7: had really interesting response to it. So we're gonna read
• 8:07
  Speaker 7: off one. Hey, Steven Mediata Krue just finished listening to
• 8:10
  Speaker 7: episode nine O eight about alpha gal syndrome. It was
• 8:12
  Speaker 7: a great episode on topic that hits close to home
• 8:14
  Speaker 7: for anyone who spends serious time in the woods. I
• 8:17
  Speaker 7: wanted to follow up on the brief mention of acupuncture
• 8:19
  Speaker 7: as a potential treatment. I have two close friends, both
• 8:22
  Speaker 7: very down to earth, blue collar guys, who developed severe
• 8:25
  Speaker 7: alpha gal allergies over the last three years. One of
• 8:28
  Speaker 7: them actually had a near fatal anaphylactic reaction after his
• 8:31
  Speaker 7: doctor recommended that he slowly reintroduced red meat into his diet.
• 8:35
  Speaker 7: He ate a can of Vianna sausages and ended up
• 8:38
  Speaker 7: in a life.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: Slowly Yeah, I know that would be my choice of Like,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: I might only have red meat one more time in
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: my life.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Let's eliminate me. I like his style. I'll be honest.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I like his style.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: It would have been really boring if he like cooked
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: up a little bit of Hamer in a pan.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: No, this is good.
• 9:01
  Speaker 7: Well, his friend, the other blue collar guy that he mentions,
• 9:05
  Speaker 7: couldn't even be in the kitchen when his family was
• 9:07
  Speaker 7: cooking bacon without his face and body breaking out in hives.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: He's desperate for a solution.
• 9:12
  Speaker 7: A coworker mentioned that his brother, an acupuncturist in Charlotte,
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: North Carolina was using a technique to target alpha gal.
• 9:18
  Speaker 7: Both my friends were very skeptical, but they decided to
• 9:20
  Speaker 7: give it a shot. Unbelievably, after just one session where
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: a needle is inserted into their ear, both guys were
• 9:27
  Speaker 7: completely cured. It's been a while now and neither has
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: had a single allergic reaction since. Both are back to
• 9:32
  Speaker 7: eating meat without any issues. I know this is far
• 9:34
  Speaker 7: fetched and sounds like pseudoscience, and I wouldn't believed it myself.
• 9:37
  Speaker 7: I haven't seen it happen to two of the biggest
• 9:39
  Speaker 7: skeptics that I know. I just want to share these
• 9:41
  Speaker 7: real world success stories as another perspective on a disease
• 9:44
  Speaker 7: that affects so many outdoorsmen.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Nate Dotson man, Wow, I'd like.
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: To see a blood test from those dudes after they had.
• 9:52
  Speaker 7: Yeah, so we're not going to go super deep in this,
• 9:55
  Speaker 7: but there's an interesting, a very interesting study on PubMed
• 9:58
  Speaker 7: about It's like a a very well done study on
• 10:01
  Speaker 7: acupuncture and on for alphabet treatment and the results are
• 10:06
  Speaker 7: very interesting. So if you're dealing with this, check it out.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I read that. I read that study.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Uh, acupuncture confuses me. Same, I don't understand it. Me neither,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: But a lot of people think it works for them
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: or it works for them, And I think when it
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: comes to health stuff, who are we to say?
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: If it helps there.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: You go, Yeah, if you had a red meat allergy,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: that's the kind of thing you just like throw the
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: kitchen sink at yea.
• 10:33
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: If you told me I could cut off my left arm,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: elbow down, forearm down, I don't know.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I'd give it a shot. What about shoulder down? Yeah, yeah,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: probably probably.
• 10:46
  Speaker 9: Keep the shoulder though for some recoil the red red
• 10:48
  Speaker 9: swim game, the red meat allergy.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like i'd keep I'd try every tool
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: in the toolbox. All Right, we've got another email here.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: This is a Chettiquot question, and the fellow writes, Hi,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Steven Crewe, So right off the bat, we've screwed this
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: one up, Hi crew, longtime listener, first time writer. I'd
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: appreciate if you guys weighed in on this one. In Illinois,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: nearly all public waterfowl sites assigned blinds through an in
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: person lottery for the whole season. To enter, you show
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: up on a designated day in July with your ID
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: in a current or previous year's hunting license and a
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: waterfowl stamp. A DNR officer writes your name on a
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: slip and drops it in a raffle tumbler. If your
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: name gets drawn, you pick from the open blinds. Then
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: you turn in a form listing up to four hunters,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: and each of them has full hunting rights to that blind.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: You can only be listed on one blind in the
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: entire state per season, and there's no hunting outside the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: marked blinds. My partners were out of town at a wedding,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: so I went alone to the site that I hunt
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: every year. Normally, it runs clean. A name gets read,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: you call the blind you want, and of a second
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: name from a group that already one gets drawn, they
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: just say pass and step out. That protocol usually means
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: everyone who shows up leaves with a blind. Before it started,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I did a rough headcount. If every group of four
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: took one blind, everyone there goes home happy. Around the
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: fifth draw, an obvious non hunter from a group that
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: had just one got called, He turned and chuckled to
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: his buddies and went and grabbed another blind. Then it
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: happened four more times. Five groups took multiple blinds to
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: lock everyone else out. That only put one name on
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: each extra blind so no other group could join. End
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: result is that me and at least three other groups
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: walked away with nothing. I honestly don't know whether it
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: be mad at the DNR, the first group that set
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: the president, or my hunting partner's college buddy who decided
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: to get married yesterday. So here's what I'm chewing on.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: One do I have a right to be pissed? Or
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: am I just a sore loser?
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: Two?
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Whose fault is it really that this happened?
• 12:54
  Speaker 10: Three?
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: What would you do in this situation? Four? Any solutions
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: to make this involuted process suck less?
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: You have a right to be pissed for sure?
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: Uh. And there was no attempt to like talk to
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: the single groups and and fill those open spots. That's
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: the That's what I'm conjuring in my brain. There's individuals
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: in those other blinds, my versus full capacity in those blinds.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: My test for this would be are those blinds going
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: to be sitting empty during hunting spit? And if they are,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that is a huge red flag and that's a non starter.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: This this is messed up.
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: If they've got non hunters, they're trying to claim stuff
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: like they should be checking licenses, yeah, you know when
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: these draws are happening.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I also wonder too, in situations like this, you can't
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: really get if people are doing if people are playing by.
• 13:56
  Speaker 7: The rules, don't hate the player, hate the game.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but in this case, it seems like the outcome.
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: That well, there's the intent right right.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: It seems like the outcome that the state wants is
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: not is not the outcome that's going to play out
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: in the in the field, right And so I'm hoping
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: that they have some sort of system where they figure
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: out how many days you hunted out of these blinds,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and like if they're not getting used, you know, maybe
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: you're ineligible the next year something like that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: Brody brings up a good point right on paper, what's
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: the difference between a hunter and a non hunter? Do
• 14:29
  Speaker 5: you have a license? Well, I guess that makes you
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: a hunter?
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so yeah, I mean because you could ultimately
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: you could end up with the same outcome. I guess
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: if you had all these groups there and half of
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the groups were just lazy asses that would get a
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: blind with every intention of hunting it and then not
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: hunt it that season, Like you could still end up
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: getting screwed just based on the relative different commitments of
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: each group.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: But this seems egregious.
• 14:59
  Speaker 9: Yeah, put like a signing box at the blinds, right,
• 15:03
  Speaker 9: and when you when you haunt them, you sign in
• 15:04
  Speaker 9: and whatever. At the end of the year, they look like, Oh,
• 15:06
  Speaker 9: the people won this blind only hunted two days or
• 15:09
  Speaker 9: something or whatever. Zero days hunt zero days. You'd like, yeah,
• 15:15
  Speaker 9: you're not eligible for the name.
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: People like commit to certain days on the calendar and
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: if they don't show it, like if they're not going
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: to be there, they relinquish those days and other people
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: can get them somehow, like some kind of system where
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: you have access to a blind that's not getting used.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: I think Drew needs to fight fire with fire, and
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: he needs to like bring his nine year old daughter
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: and neighbor and a couple folks in his universe that
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: can help him maybe put the odds in his favor.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe a range of a field trip for the local
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: senior center.
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: I am laughing.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: The church bus out there, that is the.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: I always say, like the most dangerous people in America
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: or retirees, because they got a lot of time, some
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: disposable income, and if and if they really want to
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: focus on something they can right hammer. Yeah, but it
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: like we're in this like deregulation period in America right now.
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: And I do laugh at the conversation that we just had.
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: It's like, Okay, well, how do you fix people being jerks? Right,
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: It's like, well, we're going to have a representative government
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: system and then everybody, you know, it's like, I mean this,
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: we just need people to follow the intent of the system.
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: And if you're not there to do that, yeah, stay
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: the hell out.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I Mean, one way that I could see this being
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: somewhat mitigated is if you made the groups declare who's
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: in their group beforehand. Right, Like it seems like there's
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: five sort of four solo individuals there, each putting their
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: name in separately, and then they so maybe just have
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: you have to declare that this is group A, group B,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Group C.
• 16:57
  Speaker 9: Well on the slip that they pull out, just have every.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Wanted to have all the names and then those people, yeah, exactly,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: you have to you have all the names there, and
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: then those specific names can't get drawn.
• 17:08
  Speaker 9: I could see where people that hate waterfowl hunting and
• 17:10
  Speaker 9: get involved in this to try and get some blinds.
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: They're a good bird watching spot. But even on like
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: non draw public water relatively close to here, like forever,
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: there's been this highly competitive deal where it's like, okay,
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: there's these blinds that are like historic blinds on the waterway.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: The young dude in the group goes down at midnight,
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: camps out in the blind all night, and then the
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: older guys roll in just before shooting light with coffee
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: and breakfast sandos, And that kid's been there shining a
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: head lamp at every other group that's come out to
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: hunt the blind. Yeah, you know, and it's like and
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: then on really competitive days there's three young dudes that
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: pin down three different lines to keep other people out
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: and then they only hunt one blind.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the arms race.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's there's no way of getting rid
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: of all the gamesmanship and this stuff. But when the
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: gamesmanship starts to overtake the real point of why you're
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: out there, that's where it ruins it for me, when
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: like you're thinking more about how to beat the system
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: than you are just like, how are we going to
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: get out.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: On good day?
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: Not just how to beat the system, it's how to
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: screw over your fellow hunter It's like, is that really
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: what we want to be doing?
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, there's always going to be those people.
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: I know, I know, Drew, Just.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Why don't you talk to your local DNR access person
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: and just read there take their temperature on this. You know,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: maybe you could work towards a solution next year that
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: makes it a little bit better.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Now it's time for the news. Just starting out. Did
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I get Did I do that right? Never mind?
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: What is that?
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: It sounds like I thought that, but then I thought
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: maybe there was more.
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: Tweety bird being.
• 19:13
  Speaker 11: It's like an old timey newswire morse code thing that
• 19:15
  Speaker 11: I morphed into a nuthatch that's tweeting at the same
• 19:18
  Speaker 11: time as the Morse code. And then and then it
• 19:19
  Speaker 11: gets eaten by something really good, really good.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Brody doesn't like it?
• 19:26
  Speaker 9: Did you?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I mean I like it.
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: I just didn't get the bird part.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: That's fine. Uh.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: To start off our news, excuse me to start off
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: the news for the week. We have an interview that
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Steve has pre recorded with David Wilms, and they are
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: going to talk about UH and get to the bottom
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: of some of the headlines that you might have seen
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: lately on grizzly bear management.
• 19:48
  Speaker 12: Joined now by Dave Wilms, the Associate vice president of
• 19:54
  Speaker 12: the National Wildlife Federation, certified attorney and undisputed on Endangered
• 20:01
  Speaker 12: Species Act issues, undisputed expert on grizzly bear management. He's
• 20:08
  Speaker 12: here to tell us what exactly does.
• 20:11
  Speaker 10: It all mean?
• 20:13
  Speaker 12: What we've been reading the news about changes to grizzly
• 20:16
  Speaker 12: bear management in the Rocky Mountains with particular implications to
• 20:23
  Speaker 12: those three states that have grizzly bear populations Montana, Wyoming,
• 20:30
  Speaker 12: and Idaho.
• 20:32
  Speaker 10: Thank you for coming on.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: Dave, Thanks for having me. Always good to see you.
• 20:36
  Speaker 10: So, so what's up? What is going on? This is
• 20:38
  Speaker 10: this is this is always a difficult issue to follow.
• 20:41
  Speaker 12: It's it becomes very there's a lot of details, a
• 20:44
  Speaker 12: lot of things change and get undone through litigation.
• 20:49
  Speaker 10: So like, where are we at right now? What's new? Yeah?
• 20:53
  Speaker 13: I mean the big news story is about a week
• 20:56
  Speaker 13: ago the governors of Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana I held
• 21:00
  Speaker 13: a press conference with Secutor of Interior Doug Bergham to
• 21:04
  Speaker 13: announce a new rule involving grizzly bears. And they just
• 21:09
  Speaker 13: call it the four D rule. But for folks that
• 21:12
  Speaker 13: don't know what the four D rule is. Section four
• 21:16
  Speaker 13: sub Section D of the Endangered Species Act gives the
• 21:19
  Speaker 13: Fish and Wildlife Service a lot of flexibility to write
• 21:23
  Speaker 13: rules that allow some level of take for different take
• 21:27
  Speaker 13: meaning you know, injury to an animal, lethal removal of
• 21:31
  Speaker 13: an animal, you know, harassing an animal. Not harassing that's
• 21:35
  Speaker 13: the wrong word, but you know, you know, dealing with
• 21:39
  Speaker 13: conflict issues to come up with grizzly bears. Giving some
• 21:41
  Speaker 13: flexibility to do that by writing this rule for threatened
• 21:45
  Speaker 13: species that exempt those things from what are called take prohibitions. Normally,
• 21:49
  Speaker 13: if you were to harm or harass or do anything
• 21:52
  Speaker 13: to these grizzly bears, you'd be violating the Endangered Species
• 21:55
  Speaker 13: Act because they're listed. So this is to exempt certain
• 21:58
  Speaker 13: activities management activities from the take prohibitions of the Endangered
• 22:05
  Speaker 13: Species Act. That's at the high level.
• 22:07
  Speaker 10: Yeah, So give me an example of an activity.
• 22:10
  Speaker 12: What actually happened that we might start seeing more of
• 22:13
  Speaker 12: that we weren't seeing before.
• 22:16
  Speaker 13: Well, I mean, I don't know if you're going to
• 22:18
  Speaker 13: see new activities. I think you're in some ways you're
• 22:22
  Speaker 13: formalizing old activities.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: So like tons of credit to.
• 22:27
  Speaker 13: Wyoming and the Wyman Game and Fish Department and their
• 22:30
  Speaker 13: large carnivore team. They've been doing a lot of on
• 22:34
  Speaker 13: the ground management at grizzly bears and people just don't
• 22:36
  Speaker 13: see it for decades, and they've been consulting with the
• 22:40
  Speaker 13: Fish and Wildlife Service. And if they have a grizzly
• 22:43
  Speaker 13: bear going out and harassing livestock or killing livestock and
• 22:47
  Speaker 13: they need to deal with that bear, they need to
• 22:49
  Speaker 13: haze it off, or they need to translocate at someplace else,
• 22:53
  Speaker 13: or if it just keeps getting worse, they actually need
• 22:55
  Speaker 13: to there needs to be lethal removal of the bear.
• 22:59
  Speaker 13: Then they coordinate with a Fish and Wildlife Service and
• 23:01
  Speaker 13: do that. This rule formalizes that relationship, is the way
• 23:06
  Speaker 13: I would describe it from the Wyoming perspective. It would
• 23:08
  Speaker 13: formalize that relationship in rule and formally authorized through this
• 23:13
  Speaker 13: rule the states to take on these on the ground
• 23:18
  Speaker 13: management activities, and that conflict resolution is a big piece
• 23:24
  Speaker 13: of it, but it could be some of the scientific research.
• 23:27
  Speaker 13: It could be if you have a bear that's struck
• 23:30
  Speaker 13: by a vehicle, for example, and it's injured on the
• 23:32
  Speaker 13: side of the road, it seems pretty simple. You should
• 23:35
  Speaker 13: be able to dispatch that bear right well, the way
• 23:39
  Speaker 13: the Endangered Species Act writes, you wouldn't be able to
• 23:42
  Speaker 13: be a violation of the Act to do that.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: So this would allow a state agency.
• 23:46
  Speaker 13: Personnel authorized personnel to go and deal with that injured
• 23:50
  Speaker 13: bear without having to necessarily wait for somebody from the
• 23:55
  Speaker 13: Fish and Wildlife Service to authorize it or come out
• 23:58
  Speaker 13: and do it for example.
• 24:01
  Speaker 12: I understand what you're saying, but I feel like there's
• 24:03
  Speaker 12: got there. There has to be more to the story
• 24:06
  Speaker 12: than just formulizing something that's already happened, or else it
• 24:08
  Speaker 12: wouldn't have been. Why is it being treated like a
• 24:12
  Speaker 12: significant change or a significant piece of evolution?
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: So, I mean, that's a great question, and.
• 24:23
  Speaker 13: I guess the best way to describe it is, look
• 24:27
  Speaker 13: at all the criticism that's happened over the last fifteen
• 24:30
  Speaker 13: to twenty years. One of the big complaints that you
• 24:32
  Speaker 13: see when you talk about grizzly dlisting, right, we've tried
• 24:35
  Speaker 13: twice to delist grizzly bears. People come up in arms
• 24:39
  Speaker 13: over grizzly dlisting, and one of the big things they
• 24:41
  Speaker 13: cite is this distrust for the states, the state legislators,
• 24:46
  Speaker 13: the governors, the state state agencies, and I don't think
• 24:50
  Speaker 13: the public broadly knows that states have been very involved
• 24:55
  Speaker 13: with grizzly bear management and recovery for now fifty years.
• 25:00
  Speaker 13: And one thing this rule does. It does a couple
• 25:02
  Speaker 13: of things I think are really important. One is it
• 25:04
  Speaker 13: formalizes that relationship. And it formalizes the fact that states
• 25:08
  Speaker 13: have an active role in management of grizzly bears and
• 25:14
  Speaker 13: recovery of grizzly bears. So that's one piece of it.
• 25:17
  Speaker 13: I don't think the public knows, and so this formalizes
• 25:20
  Speaker 13: that and says, we're recognizing what an amazing job the
• 25:23
  Speaker 13: states do and and formally, you know, creating this role.
• 25:28
  Speaker 13: Another thing I think it does is it creates a
• 25:31
  Speaker 13: roadmap for you know, if you can make a rule
• 25:34
  Speaker 13: like this work where you're if you meet certain and
• 25:37
  Speaker 13: the way this rule is written by the way, if
• 25:39
  Speaker 13: you meet certain benchmarks there are, then the state can
• 25:43
  Speaker 13: take on additional responsibilities of management. Okay, the way it's written,
• 25:48
  Speaker 13: the states have pretty much already met those benchmarks because
• 25:51
  Speaker 13: they're they're tied to two jet demographic objectives like what
• 25:54
  Speaker 13: are the what's the population distribution, what's the overall population,
• 25:58
  Speaker 13: all the things that have been met for twenty years.
• 26:01
  Speaker 13: So if you tie it to that, then they're automatically
• 26:04
  Speaker 13: going to be able to step in and do those things.
• 26:06
  Speaker 13: But it also creates a roadmap that you could use
• 26:08
  Speaker 13: for other species and other places that maybe haven't reached
• 26:12
  Speaker 13: those benchmarks yet. So this is I look at this
• 26:14
  Speaker 13: as a rule as it's an incentive for states to
• 26:18
  Speaker 13: really lean in on listed species and push towards recovery
• 26:21
  Speaker 13: and taking back management of them even while they're still listed.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: So in that regard, I think it's a pretty big deal.
• 26:30
  Speaker 13: But I think it's also important that there are things
• 26:32
  Speaker 13: this rule doesn't do that are floating around out there
• 26:35
  Speaker 13: on the internet, you know, because people are all armchair
• 26:39
  Speaker 13: quarterbacks and armchair lawyers and all those things and tell
• 26:42
  Speaker 13: you what this rule does and doesn't do.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: And there's a lot of misinformation out there too about
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: this rule.
• 26:48
  Speaker 10: Is it safe to say that.
• 26:53
  Speaker 12: Since this has been attempted, since dlisting has been attempted
• 26:56
  Speaker 12: twice and both times that they've pushed the US fish
• 27:00
  Speaker 12: and while their service has moved to delist grizzly bears,
• 27:07
  Speaker 12: it was blocked in the courts and usually the greatest
• 27:12
  Speaker 12: thing that they would use as public leverage was the
• 27:16
  Speaker 12: idea that there would be hunting licenses issued for grizzly bears.
• 27:21
  Speaker 12: Then that really unnerved a lot of grizzly bear protectionists,
• 27:25
  Speaker 12: and so they got the dlisting beat. Is it safe
• 27:29
  Speaker 12: to say that this is rather than trying to undo
• 27:34
  Speaker 12: or rather than trying to delist in one fell swoop,
• 27:38
  Speaker 12: this is just a necessary step toward that objective in
• 27:43
  Speaker 12: order to alleviate some of the immediate pressure that would
• 27:46
  Speaker 12: be felt if they tried to dlist again.
• 27:48
  Speaker 13: Right now, I think that's right, I think, And also
• 27:52
  Speaker 13: another way to think about this is think of this
• 27:54
  Speaker 13: as an insurance policy of sorts. Right, So you put
• 27:59
  Speaker 13: this rule in place that creates the authorities for the
• 28:01
  Speaker 13: states to go out and do the on the ground management,
• 28:04
  Speaker 13: to go do the respond to conflicts to One thing
• 28:07
  Speaker 13: they can't do is they can't they still have to
• 28:09
  Speaker 13: consult with the Fish and Wildlife Service before they do
• 28:11
  Speaker 13: any lethal removal. They can't just go out and gill
• 28:14
  Speaker 13: a grizzly bear. But all this other management stuff they'll
• 28:16
  Speaker 13: now have the ability to just go do under this
• 28:20
  Speaker 13: under this rule, And so the insurance policy. I call
• 28:23
  Speaker 13: it is, say, six months from now or a year
• 28:26
  Speaker 13: from now, the Fish and Wildlife Service proposes to delist
• 28:30
  Speaker 13: grizzly bears.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: What's going to happen.
• 28:33
  Speaker 13: We're going to have lawsuits filed like we always do,
• 28:36
  Speaker 13: and it's going to get tied up in the courts. Well,
• 28:38
  Speaker 13: while that is playing out and being fought, you still
• 28:42
  Speaker 13: have the States largely managing the bear like under this rule.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: Now, it doesn't go as far as I wrote.
• 28:50
  Speaker 13: A book chapter three or four years ago where I
• 28:53
  Speaker 13: proposed something like this structure, only I went a lot
• 28:56
  Speaker 13: farther with it, and I actually said, you should just
• 28:59
  Speaker 13: inc orperate the post delisting management plan of the States
• 29:02
  Speaker 13: into the four D rule. And if that means authorizing
• 29:06
  Speaker 13: leak author like allowing a hunting season to occur while
• 29:10
  Speaker 13: it's listed, that you could theoretically do that. Obviously, this
• 29:14
  Speaker 13: doesn't go that far. This doesn't authorize a hunting season.
• 29:20
  Speaker 13: My theory back in the time was you could have
• 29:23
  Speaker 13: this species be effectively delisted, but it's list still listed,
• 29:28
  Speaker 13: but effectively managed as though it's delisted, and then let
• 29:31
  Speaker 13: the courts play out, and you've got this insurance policy. Well,
• 29:34
  Speaker 13: this has most everything except that piece, the hunting piece,
• 29:37
  Speaker 13: like most everything else is included in that.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: So it's almost this.
• 29:41
  Speaker 13: The folks on the ground don't have to watch the
• 29:43
  Speaker 13: pendulum swing with the litigation. They just see, you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 13: the states out there doing the management. And then over
• 29:49
  Speaker 13: the longer term, those those groups that distrust the states
• 29:53
  Speaker 13: and say they can't do it. Well, now you have
• 29:55
  Speaker 13: this body of evidence building formally building through these annual
• 29:59
  Speaker 13: reports that this forty rule requires from the states. You
• 30:02
  Speaker 13: have a body of evidence annually building showing what the
• 30:07
  Speaker 13: States are doing to manage the bear, the grizzly bears successfully,
• 30:11
  Speaker 13: and I think that can be blunt future litigation.
• 30:14
  Speaker 12: Oh yeah, that's great, because that's the claim is that, oh,
• 30:17
  Speaker 12: if they delist grizzly bears, the states are just.
• 30:21
  Speaker 10: Gonna go whole hog kill them all.
• 30:24
  Speaker 12: And then you point out, why would that benefit the
• 30:27
  Speaker 12: states to manage the grizzlies in a way that they're
• 30:30
  Speaker 12: back on the endangered back under ESA protection, the state
• 30:33
  Speaker 12: has no incentive to tank bear populations. Of course, they've
• 30:38
  Speaker 12: been shooting themselves in the foot if they tanked bear populations.
• 30:41
  Speaker 12: So as you're saying that this gives an opportunity to
• 30:44
  Speaker 12: demonstrate that the states have no interest in imperiling grizzly
• 30:48
  Speaker 12: bear populations.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 30:50
  Speaker 13: You can see how it's playing out with wolves. For example,
• 30:53
  Speaker 13: you've probably seen in Wyoming the proposal to now reduce
• 30:55
  Speaker 13: the wolf quota by over half this year because wolf
• 30:59
  Speaker 13: numbers are down from disease and other things have caused
• 31:02
  Speaker 13: them to depress. So they're adapting and adjusting because frankly,
• 31:06
  Speaker 13: the state doesn't want to see wolves relisted either. They
• 31:09
  Speaker 13: don't want to see grizzly bears relisted. So you're gonna
• 31:11
  Speaker 13: end up with this body of under this four D
• 31:13
  Speaker 13: rule and the reporting that comes out of it, I
• 31:15
  Speaker 13: do believe, and one of the best things they'll come
• 31:18
  Speaker 13: out of it is you're going to see the proofs
• 31:20
  Speaker 13: in the pudding, and you're going to see that the
• 31:21
  Speaker 13: states are able to show we're doing it, bears are
• 31:24
  Speaker 13: still recovered, and at least blunts arguments against the distrust
• 31:31
  Speaker 13: of the state agencies, which I think has been one
• 31:33
  Speaker 13: of the, like you mentioned, one of the biggest obstructions
• 31:35
  Speaker 13: to not being able to get them delisted. You'll never
• 31:37
  Speaker 13: satisfy everybody. There are people out that are just like,
• 31:40
  Speaker 13: I don't care if they're recovered, they should stay protected
• 31:42
  Speaker 13: under the ESA because I never want to see them
• 31:44
  Speaker 13: hunted in any way.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: Or something like that. Right, that's going to be out there.
• 31:48
  Speaker 12: I got one last question for you, Yeah, were you
• 31:51
  Speaker 12: involved in shaping this? And would you be able to
• 31:54
  Speaker 12: say if you were involved in shaping this?
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: All I can say is years ago.
• 32:03
  Speaker 13: So I've written there's a there's a book out there
• 32:07
  Speaker 13: called the Codex. It's a it's the worst titled book ever,
• 32:10
  Speaker 13: but it's called the Codex of the Endangered Species Act,
• 32:13
  Speaker 13: Volume two. I contributed a chapter to that where I
• 32:16
  Speaker 13: laid out this exact idea of of increasing authority to
• 32:20
  Speaker 13: the states under a four D rule. And I've been
• 32:23
  Speaker 13: working on that for years prior, you know, going all
• 32:26
  Speaker 13: the way back to my time working for the Governor
• 32:29
  Speaker 13: of Wyoming on on some essay stuff.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: So this is an idea. There are other.
• 32:34
  Speaker 13: People that have been talking about this too. This is
• 32:36
  Speaker 13: an idea that I've definitely honed in on on grizzly
• 32:38
  Speaker 13: bears in particular, and I've presented the idea to the
• 32:41
  Speaker 13: serve to service leadership over the years at different conferences
• 32:44
  Speaker 13: and so forth. So Did I have a hand in
• 32:47
  Speaker 13: writing it? Absolutely not, I didn't you know, that's the
• 32:49
  Speaker 13: service they do that. But I definitely, I definitely fleshed
• 32:55
  Speaker 13: out an idea that seems to show up in the rule.
• 32:59
  Speaker 13: I won't take credit for it, but it's it.
• 33:01
  Speaker 9: It.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: There's some there's some mirroring of some of the.
• 33:05
  Speaker 10: You're potentially an intellectual father of this.
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: There you go. I like that. I like that way.
• 33:12
  Speaker 10: I was going to ask you one more question.
• 33:14
  Speaker 12: It would be such pure speculation, and it was going
• 33:16
  Speaker 12: to be I'll do it anyways.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: Okay, it's a.
• 33:20
  Speaker 12: Two part question. No, it's a one part question. If
• 33:23
  Speaker 12: you had to crystal ball it, it's just a wild guess.
• 33:28
  Speaker 12: We're giving your room for a wild guess in your lifetime.
• 33:33
  Speaker 12: In your lifetime, do you think that you will see
• 33:38
  Speaker 12: the implication of a grizzly bear hunting season in Montana,
• 33:46
  Speaker 12: Wyoming or Idaho? Like I mean, we're actually it actually
• 33:51
  Speaker 12: goes through and happens in your lifetime. If you had
• 33:55
  Speaker 12: to say yes or no, and it's just a wild
• 33:57
  Speaker 12: ass guess.
• 33:59
  Speaker 13: Uh, can I say it depends on what the serve.
• 34:04
  Speaker 13: The reason I say that is I actually believe that
• 34:08
  Speaker 13: as the service moves forward, the fish model service moves
• 34:10
  Speaker 13: forward with proposed delisting rule if they decide to do that,
• 34:14
  Speaker 13: what that says, and what lands are incorporated by that,
• 34:18
  Speaker 13: And this might be a longer conversation for us someday,
• 34:21
  Speaker 13: but we'll determine whether they're ever delisted in our lifetime
• 34:25
  Speaker 13: or not. And I think it could go one of
• 34:28
  Speaker 13: about three ways. So I would love for it to happen,
• 34:32
  Speaker 13: and I'm hopeful that it happens, but I just I
• 34:38
  Speaker 13: can't give you the I can't do the you wanted,
• 34:40
  Speaker 13: the yes or no, And I can't just like say
• 34:43
  Speaker 13: yes or no. I can only say it depends. Although
• 34:45
  Speaker 13: I can say it has happened in our lifetime because
• 34:50
  Speaker 13: the first for D rule, written for grizzly bears in
• 34:53
  Speaker 13: nineteen seventy five, or maybe it was a year or
• 34:56
  Speaker 13: so later, allowed hunting of grizzly bears out in the
• 35:00
  Speaker 13: Bob Marshall outside of Glacier, and that continued until the
• 35:05
  Speaker 13: early nineteen nineties.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I think it was.
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: It was shut down in nineteen ninety one, but anyway.
• 35:12
  Speaker 13: It's been It's been written into forty rules in the past,
• 35:14
  Speaker 13: so in our lifetime as a threatened species. They've been hunted,
• 35:18
  Speaker 13: but they in the future. All I'll say is I hope.
• 35:23
  Speaker 10: So okay, but you'll give it a big depends.
• 35:28
  Speaker 13: A big depends and you can use depends as in
• 35:31
  Speaker 13: the adult diaper or whatever, because it's like, that's what
• 35:34
  Speaker 13: this whole thing is.
• 35:36
  Speaker 12: Man, Dave Wilms, thanks for coming on again. Dave Wilms
• 35:39
  Speaker 12: from the National Wildlife Federation always is great for giving
• 35:42
  Speaker 12: a very even keeled, measured, unemotional take on contentious wildlife
• 35:50
  Speaker 12: issues and issues of corner crossing and other things.
• 35:54
  Speaker 10: So again, thank you, Dave.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you bet.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks Thanks Steve, that's a great interview, gentlemen.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: What you think?
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: David texts me.
• 36:03
  Speaker 7: Followed up he wanted to redo his final take that
• 36:06
  Speaker 7: Steve asked about.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: Good because I didn't really like his answer.
• 36:09
  Speaker 7: No mean neither, and he said, and I think he's
• 36:11
  Speaker 7: still kind of given a a Steve would say a
• 36:13
  Speaker 7: law dog and answer, but he's a lawyer. You can't
• 36:15
  Speaker 7: blame them. Said, if I had a crystal ball on
• 36:17
  Speaker 7: whether we'd see hunting in the three States in our lifetime,
• 36:20
  Speaker 7: I stand by my saying it depends. But it's more
• 36:23
  Speaker 7: than what the FWS decides to do with delisting. It
• 36:25
  Speaker 7: depends on what courts do, It depends on what Congress does,
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: it depends on what.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: The states do.
• 36:29
  Speaker 7: But I'd also say I sure hope we see it.
• 36:31
  Speaker 7: Not because I want to hunt them necessarily, but because
• 36:34
  Speaker 7: if they are recovered and that's how the states want
• 36:36
  Speaker 7: to manage them, then hunts then that's what should happen.
• 36:39
  Speaker 7: Grizzly bears and gye have been objectively recovered for more
• 36:42
  Speaker 7: than twenty years. The Services tried to delist them twice.
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: If we want to continue touting the success of the ESA,
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: then we have to be willing to delist recovered species
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: and trust that states will do everything they can to
• 36:53
  Speaker 7: make sure that they never need to be listed again.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had I had the same thought. Like when
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: he was describing at the end what his crystal ball
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: prediction was, I did have the same thought that sort
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: of bubbled up in my mind, is like, well, I
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: would like to hunt them. I will apply for a
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: tag if it happens. But on the like just the
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: big picture, how cool would it be if an animal
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: that was endangered is all of a sudden a renewable
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: resource in the way that we think of.
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: It worked as intended and people and people acknowledged that
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: it worked.
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: Bill, we got to pull the map up here so
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: folks who are watching can understand what we're looking at this.
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: You cannot look at this in a vacuum and be like, Okay,
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: this idea on its own makes sense. On its own,
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: it absolutely makes sense. But there's all these surrounding factors.
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: And what I would say, folks who aren't keen to
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: this idea of returning the bear to state management need
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: to understand is currently, and for many, many years, grizzly
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: bears have been getting shot and killed a bunch like
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: more than anybody would guess in the states of Wyoming, Idaho,
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: and Montana, primarily conflict resolution.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: You have number like how many a year.
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: I haven't looked today. I can't remember what I think.
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: I recently heard fifty in Montana.
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: So when I went down to trapping grizzly bears, the
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: trapping seasons the first week of July, and we had
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: a big winner that year.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: And trapping for collaring purposes, trapping.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: Live trap for research YEP, longest longest bear population study.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Just to make that clear for the listeners.
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: There were just in the state of Montana, there were
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: twenties six bears killed and by the first week of
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: July with a big winner, right. And I bring up
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: the big winner because they're not active until later on
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: in the season, so they've been out for a relatively
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: short amount of time. Montana had already killed twenty six
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: grizzly bears, right, And it's like, cause, well, it's just
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: the hunters that are killing grizzly bears. Vehicle mortality, bear
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: on bear mortality, and then conflict mortality or your big factors.
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: So moving the grip the bear to state management is
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: not all of a sudden gonna cause bears to be shot, right.
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: They already are being shot, whether you like it or not.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing.
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: As soon as people heard grizzlies being managed by the states,
• 39:48
  Speaker 6: there's this like knee jerk reaction like, oh my god,
• 39:51
  Speaker 6: they're going to have a hunting season, right, yeah, like
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: they're gonna kill them all, which is like, not what's
• 39:57
  Speaker 6: happening at all. There's not going to be a hunting
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: season for grizzlies next year.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: No.
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: In fact, the state of Montana we have a five
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: year run built into our grizzly management plan. So no
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: matter what, even if it's like, yeah, do whatever you want,
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: we would be marching five years down the road towards
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: a grizzly bear hunt. So look at the map. You
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: have the Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem, the NCDE. On the
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: north end of that is Glacier Waterton National Park, no hunting,
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: and it's a national park federal management. In the middle
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: of that, you have the Bob Marshall Wilderness Complex, and
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: then jump down to the Gye the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: in the middle of that Yellowstone National Park. This idea
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: that it's just going to be the state's managing bears,
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: I think is very disingenuous. There's always going to be
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: collaboration because you have basically two giant spawning areas in
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: the middle of both of these populations. There's always going
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: to be an inner agency grizzly bear task force that
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: operates within the parks. And then you have just the
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: current state of things, which is the States are doing
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: the vast majority of boots on the ground management of
• 41:30
  Speaker 5: the bear right now and last year and the year before,
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: all the way back into to the seventies when the
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: when the grizz was listed as threatened.
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and in those those are the six distinct population
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: segments for grizzlies in the lower forty eight. It's the
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: ones around Glacier and Yellowstone obviously that like, that's where
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: all the bears are, right the one to the west there,
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: the Bee that's the bitter Root. There might be a
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: couple of bears in there right now, the Cabinet Yak
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: and the Selkirk, the red and the purple ones. There's
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: bears there, not, you know, not as big of a
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: population the one over in Washington Northern Cascades. There's probably
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: not a single bear in there in the lower forty
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: eight right now. They're like in Canada, they're around and there's.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: Only a couple of them. Yeah.
• 42:26
  Speaker 6: So like those smaller populations I think would probably be
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: managed more towards the ESA line of things versus like, yes,
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: a more liberal state managed.
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: I think those are really on this map to show
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: that these are areas conducive to having sustainable grizzly populations.
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: The bitter At, I don't believe there's an established population.
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: They're meaning that there's sows and bores producing cubs every year.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Probably will be.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: But there's definitely bears that get encountered, yes, and tear
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: golf courses, and some of which are are sows.
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: But those are bears that are moving in there, either
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: from the Cabinet Yak which is again to the West
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: Glacier National Park or the Northern Continental Divide ecosystem, and
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: this greater conversation of like population connectivity to provide long
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: term genetic viability, meaning like we got enough in the
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: soup to where the ingredients keep getting mixed around and
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: you're not going to have a one ingredient soup, right,
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: so a shallow.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: G tom.
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: We're getting to the Northern Continental Divide in the Greater
• 43:53
  Speaker 6: Yellowstone kind of Lincoln Up.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I thought I thought that they confirmed one this year.
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: They may have that move.
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: They may have moved.
• 44:00
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Well I'm pretty sure to like
• 44:03
  Speaker 9: a male and a female from each side bread and
• 44:06
  Speaker 9: produce cubs this year.
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: I would still call that like a big anomaly because
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: of just all the like the biggest grizzly bear in
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: the state was killed on one of the highways in
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: between those two there, you know, so like wildlife corridors
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: with wildlife crossings. All these things could be done to
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: help improve that and make it not an anomaly, which
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: I think would be a good thing for all sorts
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: of wildlife, not just grizzly bears, but right now, like
• 44:36
  Speaker 5: the fringe area around Yellowstone and Glacier and the Bob
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: and the Bitter Rut and the act that habitat is
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: largely there because it is in a wilderness designation, a
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: Wilderness Study Area designation, a designated roadless rule designation, and
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: all of those things are under some form of review.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: Some people would say attack during this administration. So again,
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: like looking, I think it's great that the bear goes
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: back to state management. However, I want to hunt the thing.
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: I'm the only person at the table who's been able
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: to apply for a grizzly bear tag in the lower
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: forty eight because I was living in Idaho the last
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: time this happened, and we got nineties, we got to apply.
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: No, it was a couple of years ago, a couple
• 45:33
  Speaker 6: of years ago, right, and then yeah that one.
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah it would be I mean'd be like nine years
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: ago now, yeah, But.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: How did that go down? They after the applications were submitted,
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: they killed it.
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, they didn't get to Don
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: malloy and Missoul Looks shot her down.
• 45:50
  Speaker 6: They didn't get to a point where they ever drew
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: anything either. Wyoming issued tags, that's right. Yeah, I did
• 45:57
  Speaker 6: a dozen of them, I think.
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think I think I went through the
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: draw to not draw. But that was the framing of
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: the federal decision to relist, was this historic range and
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: habitat connectivity to mark actual recovery. So long story, short is,
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: if you are like me and you want to see
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: a huntable and sustainably huntable population in perpetuity of grizzly bears,
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: which I think would be just amazing and something us
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: people with big lumps of fat on our shoulders called brains,
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: should be heavily invested in, then you should be advocating
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: for wilderness and roadless and proper forest management as well
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: as expanding wilderness because that's the stuff that these low
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: fecundity critters such as grizzly bears need to have sustainable
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: hunting populations.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And you know what my takeaway from that interview was,
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: David Wilms should do our jobs.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: He's good.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: I think we should just have him do this because
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: he's way better at it.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: But we'll carry on well.
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: Because he says I might I might not even want
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: to kill a grizzly bear or hunt a grizzly bear.
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: Come on, Dave.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: Some of the distribution map we saw there crosses over
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: into tribal land specifically like the Blackfeet Reservation and the
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Crow Reservation. I could see where they are potentially the
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: first ones who like get to do a hunt when,
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: when or if that becomes available. We've seen that in
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: the past with some of the bison they're allowed to take.
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: If I could wave a magic wand they'd be doing
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: those hunts inside the parks, sure, historical hunting grounds.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally see.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: Anyway, I feel like we have when we talk about
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: this story, we haven't covered that, Like they're going to
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: be a person at the takee who made some heavy input.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: That's a great point. That's a huge omission.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: So speaking of Wyoming, this is a story that was
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: reported by Mark Hines the Cowboys State Daily. Although I
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: actually saw this post that I will reference here in
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: a minute, just popped up in my feed shocking.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Two weeks ago.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Steve covered the story about a pack of wolves known
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: as Molly's Wolves moving out of Yellowstone and into the
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Shoshone National Forest in Wyoming. There, obviously they can legally
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: be hunted, and this is one of the original packs
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: in the park. It's a pack with a lot of
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: history with the wolf watching crowd, and now that they
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: are in the National Forest, they are susceptible to hunting.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: I believe that season open September fifteenth, and when Steve
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: was reporting on it, the sort of underlying question was
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: is this going to be a big flashpoint for hunter
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: and anti huntunter conflict? Well it is, then this is
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: the post I saw that is the subject of this story.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: But there is a social media influencer in Austin, Texas
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: who has now offered a ten thousand country Yeah, ten
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars reward for the identity of any hunter who
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: kills a member of Molly's Pack during the upcoming hunting season.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: He basically just wants to docks whoever takes one of
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: these wolves. Yeah. Public shaming, condemnation I.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Think is the word that he used. This guy's name
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: is Jonas Black. Since we're sharing names, Jonas Black is
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: his name, and he claims to support fair chase hunting,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: and he says, I'm not an anti hunter, but he
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: says that Molly's pack is basically like zoo animals. He
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: claims that this will be like shooting a dog, and
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: so he wants to get the word out that anybody
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: who shoots one of these will have their identity made
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: clear to the world.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: Are those of the words he used.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: It's like shooting a dog, yes, do, he says, yeah,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: So he's a dog trainer.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: He's a dog trainer.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: And I think I saw that he became interested in
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: wolves after that story from twenty twenty four where the
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: guy ran over the wolf with the snowmobile and brought
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: it into the bar and took photos on it.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I saw that bar this summer.
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: Oh, I've been in there. Yeah, you know, since he
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: seems giant chicken Fred's day.
• 50:29
  Speaker 6: This guy seems to encourage social media discords. Then you know,
• 50:35
  Speaker 6: hit him up.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: No, let's not encouraged bad behavior.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: This is and this is like the other side of
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: this story is that Montana and Wyoming both have laws
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: in place to keep the identities of wolf hunters confidential
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: because there is such a potential for harassment and threats
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: from the anti wolf hunting crowd, and so that's you
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: know that the states themselves won't reveal identities of individual
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: wolf hunters, But there is nothing illegal to my knowledge
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: about a private party learning the identity of the hunter
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: and making that public, even if the obvious outcome will
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: be harassment and probably threats of violence.
• 51:11
  Speaker 7: Why is he all hot and bothered about like hunting
• 51:13
  Speaker 7: on the strip for ELK Like those would be fall
• 51:16
  Speaker 7: under the same the Las Vegas Strip, I'm sorry, just
• 51:21
  Speaker 7: north of the Park.
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: Oh, because this guy is all for fair chase hunting
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: so long as it's not something he really really likes.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Right right, So this is this is discouraging. I think
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: he's got he's got like some graphics, some AI generated
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: graphic that's like a logo for protect Molly's pack, And
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I hope it doesn't discourage anyone, but
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: it seems like.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: Hey, how how would he get the info of who he.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Wants someone to snitch?
• 51:53
  Speaker 7: No?
• 51:53
  Speaker 9: Hey, people is going to get killed and he ain't
• 51:58
  Speaker 9: gonna know about it.
• 51:59
  Speaker 6: It would be like if Randall had a tag and
• 52:01
  Speaker 6: Spencer is like, man, I could make ten gees here.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what he's hoping for.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: It's like you find out that a buddy of a
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: buddy shot one of those wolves, and then you get.
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: Let's go seth.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I'll split it with I was gonna say, I'm going
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: to buy a Wyoming wolf tag, go down there, and
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: then call myself in.
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: The fallacy also is like Molly's Pack is the static thing.
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: It's the same. It's the same group of Disney characters
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: that started the whole deal.
• 52:31
  Speaker 6: But they're not in Disneyland anymore cal but.
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: Also within Disneyland, they're they're eating each other. Yeah, and
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: like all he's got to do is call any state
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: agency and be like, are hunters the most effective tool
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: when it comes to wolf management? And they're gonna be like, no,
• 52:51
  Speaker 5: absolutely not. Wolves kill the most wolves.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: Secondarily, like trappers do a much better job than hunters.
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, It's like.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think I don't think we need to go
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: down these hypothetical scenarios because I don't think this guy's
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: going to be calling any game agency to learn more
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: about the situation.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: Phil Is Yellowstone more of a disney Land or a
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: disney World?
• 53:16
  Speaker 11: You would say, ooh, I'd say disney World because it
• 53:20
  Speaker 11: has three or four kind of prominent features that attract
• 53:24
  Speaker 11: the biggest populations, kind of like Disney World has four
• 53:26
  Speaker 11: theme parks that are squad across and you kind of
• 53:28
  Speaker 11: have to navigate how to get there. You gotta deal
• 53:29
  Speaker 11: with traffic, transportation.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, make that adjustment, another huge omission in our.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: So I have the obviously that is a not a
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: very heartening story for our community, but I'm going to
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: balance that out. I also saw a headline this was
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: in the CBC that Alberta hunters will be able to
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: use hounds this year to hunt black bears in certain
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: wildlife management units that have what they call conservation caribou
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: conservation areas. And I was surprised to see this because
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I feel like Canada in some ways is like Oregon
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: or Washington, where it seems like hunters are really under attack,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: and you see a lot of headlines about opportunities being
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: rolled back. Specifically, the the one that came to mind
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: first was the British Columbia doing away with its grizzly
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: bear hunt. So yeah, they're bringing back hound hunting to
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: hunt black bears. And the concern is that some of
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: these caribou herds in Alberta aren't doing well, and the
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: mortality rate of newborn caribou is the concern there, and
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: predation obviously plays a huge factor in that. So there's
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: again a lot of outcry from annie hunting groups, the
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: usual concerns about hounds chasing non target species and grizzly
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: bear conflict and stuff like that. And it's obviously clear
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: from a lot of the commentary on the CBC side
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: that there's a lot of misinformation about hunting and bear
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: hunting in particular. But nonetheless, I thought it was good
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: to shine spotlight on some.
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: Well, that stat you got in here about Minnesota's pretty.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, this is cool.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: So this is I mean, this is one thing that
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people focus on wolves when
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: they think about impacts on ungulates, but black bears are
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: hugely effective predators of calves of ungulates. And there's a
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: specific study in Minnesota that showed in years when spring
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: bear hunting took place, there was a sixty eight percent
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: lower proportion of bear predation on moose calves during those
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: spring hunts, with no compensatory increase in wolf predation, meaning
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: like it wasn't just zeroed out by someone else gobbling
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: up all the calves. So I think that one involved
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: that one involved a tribe. I can't recall the details
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: on it, but it was mentioned in some of the
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: coverage of this story, and so I dug it up
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: and took a look at it.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's uh black bears. I mean, you see
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: it too if you.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Hunt around here like they're they're keyed in on onl
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: calves for sure, Spencer.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Once you take it from here, uh, I was this
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: is a couple of weeks ago. I was making dinner
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: in the kitchen and my wife was in the living
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: room watching Jeopardy. Uh, and I heard something happen to
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: where I went in the room. I was like, you
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: got to rewind that. I need to hear that again.
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: And it was during the part of the show that
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: like comes after the first commercial break, maybe it's second
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: where they just get a little fun fact about the
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: contestants are like, so, Randall, you met Johnny Depp's sister
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: in an elevator one time, right, tell us about that.
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: And then Randa would talk about how he was at
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: a Halloween party and met Johnny Depp's sister and everyone
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: got a good laugh out of it.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Did you come up with that beforehand or do you
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: just rip just just going off me?
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: Johnny Depp sis, it's a good rift. So I heard
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: during one of these little characters intros something that got
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: my attention, and we are deep in YouTube prison right
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: now for the clips that I've shown in the past
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: that get dinged for copyright, whether it's from like ace
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: Ventura or showing the man get flipped over by a
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: bison and Yellowstone, So we can't show the clip today.
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: Phil and I are going to act it out instead.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be Ken Jennings. Phil is going to
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: be the contestants around he See.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: The thing is is it's a better experience if we
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: show the clip, but then we can't make money off of.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: It, and then we get we get thrown deeper into
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: YouTube prison, which is like maybe the deepest we've ever
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: been right now.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: Because some of the clips we're in right now it's bad.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: And then I also need the crew to help us
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: out because there's a there's some parts where the audience laughs,
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: so please laugh along just to give everyone the full experience,
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: but like a very appropriate Jeopardy audience kind of laugh.
• 57:54
  Speaker 6: Can you play the Jeopardy song without getting dinged.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Phild. It depends how much parity there is.
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: Find out YouTube is our biggest hater. Spotify they're like
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: okay with it? And Apple podcast, right philm.
• 58:10
  Speaker 11: Well, now we've got video on Apple too, So there's
• 58:12
  Speaker 11: a whole another cannon.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: Word anyway, all right, here here is the seaton. Owen
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: Harrington is from Chicago, Illinois, a union organizer and PhD candidate.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: And I'm told a pretty big deal in the state
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: of Vermont.
• 58:26
  Speaker 11: Well, for one beautiful year I was ken In twenty thirteen,
• 58:30
  Speaker 11: I caught the largest bowfin recorded in the state of Vermont.
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: It's a fish for those in the know.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: I assumed.
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: Sweet.
• 58:39
  Speaker 11: I wasn't entered in this tournament, but my friend was
• 58:41
  Speaker 11: and I was fishing with him and I said, hey,
• 58:43
  Speaker 11: you want to enter this under your name? Don't tell
• 58:45
  Speaker 11: the game board. And I won the state tournament for
• 58:48
  Speaker 11: that year. We won one thousand dollars and we split
• 58:51
  Speaker 11: it and I got my first analog synthesizer with that money.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: Wait, I thought they gave you an analog.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: It was a big surprise.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: You went out bought one.
• 59:01
  Speaker 11: Oh, I did buy one. I still haven't. I hope
• 59:04
  Speaker 11: the game warden doesn't take it away.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: No, if he's watching now, I think the statue of
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: limitations is expired.
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: Is that what you think?
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: Okay see nicely does to that. So he admitted if
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: you didn't catch it there, he caught a boufin, gave
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: it to a buddy who was entered in a bofin tournament,
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: and that buddy won and got the one thousand dollars
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: grand prize. This happened in twenty thirteen. I checked the
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: Vermont Master angler records for twenty thirteen, and to enter
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: a master angler bouffin, it needs to measure twenty eight
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: inches if you were an adult angler, or twenty three
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: inches for youth anglers. There were ten master angler Boffin
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: entered in twenty thirteen. Owen did say that his was
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: the biggest in the state. I don't know how literal
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: he was being, but the biggest in the state that
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: year was a thirty two incher caught by Robin hurens
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: In and it was caught on Lake Sham Plane at
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: four pm on June twenty ninth. So I don't know
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: that Robin was the person who entered it. I have
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: googled to my wits end trying to find the tournament
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: that would give a thousand dollars grand prize for a
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: boffin in Vermont. There are not many of them, and
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: I found what I thought was the actual event, the
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: Lake Champlain Father's Day Derby. So I sent them the
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: clip and I asked if it was their tournament. Here
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: was the response quote, Hi, Spencer, I'm aware of the episode.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: One thousand dollars would not have been the prize for
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: largest boffin at our twenty thirteen tournament, but I planned
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: to do some digging. We certainly can't have individuals who
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: were involved in the twenty thirteen fraud, or anyone whose
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: involvement would compromise the integrity or reputation of fishing competitions
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: participating in our events. So it was not them, but
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: they are looking into it to see if they could.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Track down Well, yeah, because it wouldn't.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: It is not necessarily exclusive to that fish, right, there's
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: like big fish prize, the most weight, There's all sorts
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: of variables.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: As I understand that email, he's simply saying one thousand
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: dollars wasn't the prize for that? Maybe maybe so and
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: so is inflating the amount.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 10: That he wants.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: So when fishing lawyers on this. When fishing tournatio crimes happen,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: they're usually prosecuted as fraud or theft, and in Vermont
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: those crimes are considered felonies if they exceed nine hundred dollars.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: This is a one hundred dollars beyond what it needs
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: to be a felony.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Are you putting a man in jail right?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: Any crime?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 11: I mean, we know that the Jeopardy writers watch the media.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: That would be my little tidbit if I was on Jefforby, like, well, actually,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: you guys, still a question it. So, as Ken mentioned,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: the statue of limitations will likely protect Owen, and he's correct.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: The statue of limitations in Vermont for felony fraud is
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: one thousand dollars. Now, there is some wiggle room with
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: what's called discovery. And I don't understand this well enough
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: to know if it would apply in this case. But
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: discovery would be like if a doctor did surgery on
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: you and then you realized a year later that they
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: messed something up and you're now in great pain. I
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: think the statue of limitation starts at Discovery. Once you
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: realize that the doctors stuff in this case, I don't
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: think discovery would apply. Maybe it would if the tournament
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: now just learned that they had fraud committed against them,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: But I don't know. Nobody probably cares enough for a
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: thirteen year old crime for one thousand dollars. But Karma
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: got him own got second place. He only won fourteen
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: hundred dollars that day, and he lost to the Jeopardy
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: Super Champion Kleb who won that episode with nineteen thousand dollars,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: and nobody got Final Jeopardy. Right, But we're gonna solve this.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: We're gonna figure out what tournament had one thousand dollars
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: taken from man Spencer.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 6: That's like hard hitting.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: I want to rue Crime Investigating Jury the second place
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: person to get their thousand dollars prize who was actually
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: entered in SETH.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: You're a tournament angler, what do you what would you
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: recommend the punishment be here?
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 11: And what analog synthesizer would you buy with your winnings?
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: I don't even know what the hell that is.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 11: Oh no, all the all the sins that I used
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 11: to on which are which were two we're all digital.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: It's like a keyboard that you know the sound of
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: a baseball.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it looks like a neck tie.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly where. I mean.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 9: That kind of stuff happens unfortunately quite often in tournaments
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 9: and people just get in a lot of trouble over it.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Like there was there was a recent one where.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 9: Allegations of a guy trying to buy a big fish
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 9: from his co angler and it blew up. It's they're
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 9: always like big stories when they come out, you know,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 9: to buy it.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 7: Was it for less or more than the prize amount?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 9: I mean he offered like five hundred bucks or something
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 9: for like if he would have caught I don't know.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 9: It's a long story, but the the co angler caught
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 9: a fish that if the butt, if the guy you
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 9: know driving the boat would have caught it, he would
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 9: have won that potentially won the tournament.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: And yeah, if you have information and what tournament this
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: could have been reached out to Trivia at the Meat
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: eater dot com Live an update in the future on
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: Owen's thousand dollars that.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: He stole crime stoppers.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: We should just have a crime stoppers company. Seth Morris
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: speaking of Seth Morris and fishing. You've got some interesting
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: news to report.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 9: Bringing more fishing to the news desk. Here a new
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 9: study challenges assumption about forward facing sonar. A landmark experimental
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 9: study suggests one of fishing's most debated technologies may not
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 9: increase catch rates after all. And you know, forward facing
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 9: sonar has just been a huge topic the last couple
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 9: of years. So this, this is this was very interesting
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 9: to me. U. For years, ford facing sonar has been
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 9: at the center of heat debate amongst angler's, tournament organizations
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 9: and fisheries managers. Critics have argued that the technology gives
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 9: anglers an unfair advantage and could accelerate over harvest of
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 9: popular sport fish, while supporters have maintained that its benefits
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 9: have been overstated.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: I definitely see both sides of the argument.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 9: But there's a new study that was done by the
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 9: University of Wisconsin, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, and
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 9: the University of Wisconsin Madison, and they did a long term,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 9: randomized controlled experiment examining how ford facing sonar actually affects
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 9: recreational fishing, and their findings are not probably not what
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 9: people expected.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: So this.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 9: Published in Fisheries researched followed four experienced anglers fishing Wisconsin's
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 9: net I think it's pronounced Nebish Lake throughout the summer
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 9: of twenty twenty five. By alternating access to garment life
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 9: scope forward facing sonar between two teams while standardizing equipment,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 9: fishing efforts, and conditions, researchers isolated the effects of the
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 9: technology itself. Rather than catching more fish, anglers using forward
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 9: facing sonar actually caught fewer small mouth pass than angler's
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 9: fishing without the technology. Researchers found catch rates declined by
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 9: approximately zero point six y four fish per hour when
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 9: anglers had access to forward facing sonar. The technology did
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 9: provide I had one measurable advantage. Anglers using forward facing
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 9: sonar caught slightly larger fish on average, about one inch larger.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: H Yeah, that's what I.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: Would wonder if, like I got a lot of questions, there's.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 5: A lot of hole, I'll say, there's a lot of holes.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 6: Were they just out there trying to catch as many
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 6: fish as they can or were they targeting large fish?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 9: Well, it goes on to say, like so the these
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 9: during the study, they had GPS trackers on the angler,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 9: so they could see what anglers were doing. The GPS
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 9: tracking showed anglers using forward facing sonar spent significantly more
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 9: time searching for fish than actually just casting, which makes
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 9: sense staring at the screen. Yeah, boats moved more slowly,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 9: covered less water, and made more frequent directional changes while
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 9: using the technology, which makes total sense. Because as you're
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 9: going and scanning you see a fish over here, you're
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 9: gonna make a ninety degree angle and go, you know,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 9: go over and try to catch that fish.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: I would be I would be more interested if they
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: maybe they did did they did they count the number
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: of casts per fish like that?
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 9: I would say people using forward facing sonar a castid
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 9: way less.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: It's also, this is only four anglers in one lake.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Like you said, there's a lot of I still think
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: it's interesting.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 9: Yeah, it's I mean, it's the only it's the only
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 9: study that's ever been done on the effects of forward
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 9: facing sonar.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's interesting if nothing else to show you how
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 6: people fish when they're using it.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 9: So it goes on to say the study also found
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 9: no evidence. This is one thing I don't agree on.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 9: The study also found no evidence that anglers became substantially
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 9: more effective as they gained experience with the technology over
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 9: the course of the summer. I think if you follow
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 9: the Best Master Elite Series at all, you'll know that
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 9: these these younger kids that spend a lot of time
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 9: with forward facing sonar are just so good at it.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: Is the Elite Series where they flip a coin to
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: determine which tournaments have in which one they don't.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 9: This this past season was the first time they ever
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 9: did that. They flipped the coin for every event to
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 9: determine if it was forward facing or no forward facing,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 9: and it was basically a split schedule.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: Huh.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 9: So I don't know, these researchers should should take a
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 9: look at that, just the data from that from this
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 9: year of the Elite Series, to compare tournaments with with
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 9: forward facing and without.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be a great That would be a
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: great Like I'd imagine there's a lot of data from
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: that lot.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: All those boats are tracked. There's a lot of guys
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: that really.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 9: Expect The good thing about that is the data is there.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 9: Just had to go look at it.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 6: But this really contradicts what you found with the billfish thing.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, way up, that's the thing.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 9: So this this is a small mouth bass study, as
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 9: Rayndall and I experienced a couple of weeks ago up
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 9: in Canada on Lake of the Woods, we would spend
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 9: a lot of time musky fishing without any sort of
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 9: electronics other than.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: Just two D.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 9: And then we would go out in the evenings with
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 9: live scope and catch a musky. Yeah, you know, but
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 9: also the time, the hours of the day where we
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 9: were fishing were arguably the best hours of the day
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 9: to catch a musky. But it was just you at
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 9: least knew that you were casting to fish with live scope.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's the question, right, is like what because
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: there's a lot of small mouth fisheries too, where if
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 5: you're casting, you're going to be catching small amount Yeah,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 5: they're just going to be smaller. So the game becomes like, Okay,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 5: how do I change up my rig, presentation, approach tactics
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: to get through the small fish and target the big fish.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 5: But you're still fishing yep. And then when the live
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: scope comes in, you're just not going to waste those
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 5: quote unquote waste those casts. Yep.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 9: That's like on Lake of the Woods, you could pull
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 9: up to any offshore reef and you're going to just
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 9: catch a bunch of walleye. But if you want to
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 9: catch a thirty inch thirty plus inch walleye like you
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 9: would like you would use live scope out over a
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 9: basin and target suspended fish that you could only unless
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 9: you were trolling and just happen to catch one.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yep.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 9: So that that's an example of like how your fishing
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 9: style would just completely change by using the technology.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: I remember when we were doing one of the fishing
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 5: I think you were there, Seth, but we were filming
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 5: for doss boat and any second I could, I just
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 5: had a line in the water, like yeah, and cod,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 5: all sorts of just completely random fish because that was
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: I was just trying to catch fish.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's the joy of fishing is a.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 5: Lot different than trying to catch the fish.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right, which is yeah, trophy the trophy fishing.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: Anything more on that, No, I think I.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 9: Think it'd be interesting too, And I hope that they
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 9: do more studies on like different species and and you
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 9: know anglers involve anglers that have a lot more experience
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 9: with it.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: There's more research to be done.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 9: Totally, but it's just interesting that they this is like
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 9: the first piece of you're the first study that has
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 9: come out forward facing so onar and and.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they didn't find a lot of concerns with it.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: Great work up next Brody has leprosy.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 6: Not yet, but if I go to Florida and wrestle
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 6: and armadillo, I might get it. Leprosy cases in Florida
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 6: are on the rise, and armadillos are to blame. If
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 6: you don't know what leprosy is is that like, there's
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 6: descriptions of this disease that date back three to four
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 6: thousand years in India, China, Egypt. A disease that's frequently
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 6: mentioned in the Bible associated with extreme social stigma because
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 6: it was highly contagious and incurable. People believed it was
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 6: a punishment from God. During the Middle Ages, they would
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 6: set up these leopard colonies and force people to go
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 6: into these colonies to kind of separate them from society.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 6: These people were declared legally dead, so they basically had
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 6: no rights. The cause was unknown until eighteen seventy three
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 6: when a Norwegian physician named Gerard Amour Hansen I hope
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 6: I'm pronounced gearhard gearheart anyway. A Norwegian doctor discovered the
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 6: bacterium mico Bacterium lepree. So that's the cause of bacterial disease,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 6: and before effective treatment, the disease would cause nerve damage,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 6: loss of sensation in the hands and feet, severe deformities,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 6: and blindness in advanced cases. In the nineteen forties, antibiotic
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 6: treatments came around and they were able to cure the disease.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 6: And today, like in the United States, it's very rare.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 6: It's still pretty common in other parts of the world India, Brazil, Indonesia,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 6: Africa a couple hundred thousand cases a year reported, but
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 6: again very rare. Here in the United States. Percent of
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 6: people have a natural immunity, making infection uncommon after exposure.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 6: Symptoms can take a long time to show up, up
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 6: to twenty years to appear after exposure. So what do
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 6: armadillos have to do with it? Like, how how did
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 6: they armadillo's in the United States become carriers of leprosy?
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 6: The nine banded armadillo, which we do we have a
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 6: picture of that.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been showing stuff.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool, Yeah, that was just showing.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is what leprosy symptoms look like.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 8: They're the only wild animal in North America that maintains
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 8: like they're a carrier of this bacteria, and so they're
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 8: like a wildlife reservoir.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 6: Scientists still don't know exactly how this ended up happening,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 6: but the leading theory is that leprosy was brought to
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 6: the Americas by European colonists in the fifteen hundreds, and
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 6: at some point they transferred leprosy to the armadillos, who
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 6: are now transferring it back to humans.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: See how Yeah, I'd kick the lab out of the bed,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 5: cuddle up with that.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it looks like an animal that should have rosy.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 6: Pretty a pretty interesting well on. One detail that supports
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 6: this strain. That supports this idea is that the armadillo
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 6: strain is a very close match to the strain from humans,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 6: so it suggests that the bacterias build from people into armadillos.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 6: An interesting thing why armadillos are like a good reservoir
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 6: for this thing is they have a body temperature of
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 6: ninety one to ninety five degrees, so lower than people,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 6: and this bacteria actually grows kind of poorly at a
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 6: normal human core body temperature. So that's that's pretty interesting.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 6: Ten to twenty percent of wild nine banded armadillos are carriers. Yeah,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 6: it's pretty wild. So Florida had seventeen reported cases of
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 6: leprosy so far in twenty twenty six. It's an upward trend.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 6: Twenty six reported cases in twenty twenty five, twenty twenty
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 6: twenty four, so it's like slowly been on the rise
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 6: over the last few years.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 9: Are all those cases directly related to messing with They don't.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 4: They can't.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 6: They can't necessarily confirm that, but they believe that the
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 6: majority of them, some some might be people bringing it
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 6: in they traveled internationally, and but they do believe that
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 6: that some of this is coming from armadillos. Florida officials
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 6: want to like maintain this isn't like some widespread epidemic.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 6: The overall risk remains low and the disease does not
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 6: spread easily. But you shouldn't handle live or dead armadillos.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 6: And they think that the bacteria can also be kind
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 6: of like transmitted into the soil from armadillos, So you
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 6: should wear gloves while gardening or you know, messing around
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 6: in the dirt, and you should wash a bunch. The greatest,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 6: highest risk stuff would obviously be handling or capturing live armadillos,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 6: skinning or butchering them, or eating them. Now I'm gonna
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 6: jump ahead a little bit. I got some some other
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 6: stuff going on here, but I'm gonna I'm gonna dress
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 6: the eating thing. Where did I put that? I had
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 6: it in here somewhere, maybe I cut it out anyway,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 6: I remember what I was gonna say. Like, Internationally, there
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 6: are places where armadillos are eating, like down in Central
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 6: and South America. But there is also a history of
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 6: in the United States of people eating these things, particularly
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 6: during the Depression. They were called hoover dogs and people
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 6: would eat then still happens now and then. Different states
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 6: have different like management strategies for armadillos as far as
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 6: whether they're a game animal or not. Most of the
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 6: time they're not considered a game animal, so you can
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 6: you can go out and grab yourself an armadillo if
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 6: you really want to. So that's what's going on in Florida.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 6: But Florida's not alone. I did a little extra research,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 6: and we get about one hundred and fifty to two
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 6: hundred and fifty cases of leprosy annually in the entire
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 6: United States, and again some of those could be coming
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 6: from people who are traveling and brought it back. But
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 6: this this kind of armadillo human crossover thing they believe
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 6: has happened in Texas, Louisiana, Florida, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 6: So keep an eye out for those armadillos.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 10: You don't.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 6: You don't want to be getting this disease. It's a
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 6: nasty one.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: And Florida seems to be like twenty twenty five percent
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: of all the cases nationally, and Florida is increasing. That's
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: why it's in the spotlight right now. Interesting, I don't
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: think Florida when I think armadillo's. Maybe either this is
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: the blind spot for me. You had another one?
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 6: Does that?
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: Does that?
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 9: Bacteria just live on the skin of those.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 6: Things and they carry it internally. I would assume.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: Brady's at the range of the army.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 6: So like they go that nine bandit, armadilla goes pretty
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 6: far north. But the majority of the leprosy cases, for
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 6: whatever reason, are in the southern southern tier there.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 7: We had them running around in Savannah and they are
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 7: surprisingly fast. I thought it was a slow animal.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, they're cool. They're cool looking little critterical.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Man of the worst thing walking on your tree stand.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 7: Oh you think it's a big gant so loud, so loud,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 7: and you can't see them.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there is at least one armadillo in South Dakota.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: There was, despite it being outside of the range. I
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: had a buddy who's a farmer who was houlding cattle
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: I think from Oklahoma that also had some hay with
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: it in the trailer. And when he got back home
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: and unloaded it and armadilla came running out of the haypile.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: So there was one there shortly. I don't know if
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: he made it through winter.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 6: And yeah, if you want to really like creep yourself out,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 6: like I didn't want to show the pictures here today,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 6: but you can look at like some pretty gruesome pictures
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 6: of what leprosy can do to you. It's it's rough, man.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: This says it's completely curable, though treatment takes six to
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: twelve months, and after the first few doses of medication
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 3: you are no longer infectious.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: Boy, six to twelve months, it's a long time. It
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: is a long time.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 5: The first time I heard about this, I tried to
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 5: catch I was in the act of hand catching an
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: armadillo in Texas got yelled at you.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: Want to get I didn't really say that.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I of course it was like yeah, and they're
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 5: like no, it was a real thing. I'm like, no,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: it is not. And then I was like, oh damn
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: you google.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, I feel.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: Like that's how I hear about uh armadillos and human interactions.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: It's like people catching them by hand.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, people keep them as pets. It's a handful. Like
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 6: I said, well, we'll eat them. Their their meat was
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 6: described as a like rabbit, like dark darker.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 5: You had a couple of like you get rid of
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 5: the rototiller in the garden, just let those suckers turn
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 5: things over.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they call them the Texas speed bump. What would
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: that be like if you like ran one over?
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 9: Man?
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 6: I can tell you one time brings back horrible memories, Spence,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 6: because one time I ran over a turtle by mistake.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 6: What kind it's a It was like I think it
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 6: was a painted turtle. But the noise was gruesome, Like
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 6: we were rolling kind of slow and the window was
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 6: down and I imagined the.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Noise to be sure I was.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 9: I was one time coming back from Fort peck roal
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 9: late at night, like fished all day and came back
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 9: and on ninety there in between, uh, big Timber and
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 9: Livingston come around on them bens and here comes two
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 9: raccoons out in the middle of the road.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: And it was like.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 9: I I applied the brakes, but I could I wasn't
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 9: swearing line of me. I hit both up, both tires
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 9: and one hit each tire in the front, and it
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 9: was like I was probably going seventy five miles an
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 9: hour and it was like hitting a freaking speed bump.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 5: So listeners right in, let us know what is the
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 5: worst sounding animal to hit? All right, speaking of hits,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 5: Nate's got a quick hitter to wrap us up here.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah, this is a segment we're calling old news when
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 7: we miss something in the news cycle but we still
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 7: want to talk about it. What we're gonna do is
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 7: we'll go way back to an old timey news item,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 7: talk about how it relates, see how that piece is aged,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 7: and then bring a full circle to where we're at today.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 7: In this case, we're covering the unofficial official heaviest common
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 7: carp cotton US.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: But buy a brit.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 7: So quick history going back to eighteen seventy seven my
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 7: old stomping grounds in Baltimore. Fish populations are taking due
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 7: to over harvest and water quality decline. Wildlife officials are
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 7: looking for a solution to fill the protein gap left
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 7: by this decline. Enter Spencer F. Baird, the first director
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 7: of the United States Fish Commission. He looked across the
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 7: pond at the bountiful and popular common carp population populations
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 7: of the UK and began the effort to import them.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 7: By nineteen hundred, common carp are ubiquitous throughout the US,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 7: primarily due to state and federal efforts to introduce them
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 7: and their natural resilience and fagundity. So that takes us
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 7: to this old timey bulletin if you'll pull that up
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 7: Phil released by the Department of Commerce the US Bureau Fisheries,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 7: And if you're listening, it's exactly what you imagine. It
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 7: looks like it's printed on some real nice card stock.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: Are you gonna do an old timey voice?
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: Dude? I want to do that Shane Gillis voice he does.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: Can I do it?
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: Please read it? That'd be great. Eat the carp.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: The carp discovered America in eighteen seventy seven, He found
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: the land to his liking. He multiplied and filled the
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: waters with his kind. He is now big, abundant, and useful.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: He converts useless vegetation and small animals into meat. The
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: meat is wholesome and nutritious. It contains as much protein
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: as sirloin's steak mmmm. It is easily digestible. It can
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: be cooked in such a way as to remove the
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: muddy taste. It can be boiled, baked, made into.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: Croquettes or fish loaf.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: Carp jelly, an ancient Swedish dish, is delicious. There are
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: millions of carp in the United States. The last sentence
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: shows that forty three million pounds were marketed in one year.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Nearly all of this came from a few states in
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: the Middle West. Somebody ate those forty three million pounds
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: of carp. Therefore, the carp must.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 10: Be good to eat.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: Said carp is good to eat.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: Carp has not only been eaten, but has been cultivated
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: in Europe for centuries.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: Europeans know how to cook it. Catch the carp by
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: the carp, cook the carp properly, and eat it. Eat
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: the row.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: Can the row make carp jelly? Can the fish smoke
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: it too. For more information, recipe is right to the
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: United States Bureau of Fisheries, Division F Washington, d C.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 4: Got it.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: I wish, yes, so good. I wish I would have
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: had this for the cart video.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, did you.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: Realize we released the cart video.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 7: That's one of the reasons we were rolling this. I'm
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 7: sure the suits will be super happy.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: I would like to point out Randall did not prepare
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: top of that. It says please post conspicuously.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 6: So yeah, that the cart propaganda machine was going strong again.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: Randall was not prepared for this. He just pulled this out.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: So that was that's good.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: I always wanted to do like a a propaganda movie
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: voiceover propaganda film from World War Two.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: Hey there, g I you know in nineteen eleven what
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 3: was happening in Alaska?
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: For your audio book nineteen eleven? Wash?
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: That was James Carroll's first year of trapping. Oh the
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: river off Porcupine, not the context.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 6: I wasn't eating cart.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the book Steve did. His book is
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: one of the Steve Reid's books. So you ain't got
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: to mm because it was James Carroll's book. Is first
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: ten years in Alaska.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 7: Sorry, no, we'll return to the claims made by this
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 7: well not we won't go line by line, but basically
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 7: all of those things are wrong. If you want to
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 7: see if the meat is wholesome, you can refer to
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 7: Steve's carp A La Beart beer episode that just launched
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 7: on YouTube.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 7: Uh, Doctor Randall's heavily featured in it. The recipes. I
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 7: think we might need to try carp jelly for the
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 7: next one, because if calls that out specifically twice millions
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 7: of carp most carp are used for uh. Most commercial
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 7: carp are used for fertilizer or they're exported, and they
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 7: claim it must be good to eat because so many
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 7: are getting eaten.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: So I looked up a couple of reviews on the
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: Food Network.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 7: There's two restaurants that are famous for their carp both
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 7: in Omaha, Nebraska.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah this Joe Tests. Yeah, people like Joe Tests.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 7: So we'll read two reviews, a highlight and a.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 3: Low light carp ribs they serve there.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 7: There's a couple of things just Lisa Underscore seven to
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 7: one five stars. Love this place. Go for the carp
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 7: not the mac and cheese. This is an old time
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 7: cafe with amazing potatoes. Don't think of it as a
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 7: Michelin restaurant, but it has the best fish, best potatoes,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 7: and really awesome cole slam. Robert c on the other hand,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 7: one star. Don't believe what you see on TV. Tried
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 7: the two piece fried carp. One was the rib section,
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 7: which was good but seasonless. The other was the tail
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 7: with barely any meat and looked very unappetite.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 6: You need to dress something here real quick. Yeah, restaurants
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 6: often call fish something that it's not. And there's a
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 6: bunch of different kinds of carp, So what kind of
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 6: carp are these restaurants serving?
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 7: Allegedly common carp which we'll get into because apparently the
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 7: Asian carp doesn't taste quite as good.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and then there's buffalo too.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, buffalo is not a carp, right, cart right,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 5: but it gets mixed in.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: It does get mixed in.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 5: But I've eaten several pounds of the quote unquote silver
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 5: carp and it is tasteless, like there is no flavor
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 5: to them.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: So it's just like a positive you though, when it comes.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 5: Most people, it is an extremely positive renew right because
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 5: like you fry it and it tastes like.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: It's like tofu.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like like.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: Whatever you put on that integration.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Point out too that I looked at the comments on
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: your carp video, and everybody is quick to point out
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: that there are cultures all over the world that have
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: very delicious ways of preparing carp. Although like it seems
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: like there's a great deal of variability when it comes
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: to different species and also the water that they're coming
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: out of, in the temperature of the water.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 7: And that's that's We'll skip through some of the Asian
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 7: carp stuff and just focus on common but it seems
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 7: that the for good carp cultivation you got to be
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 7: real dialed in on water quality, which they are in
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 7: the UK and France. So for any diehard trivia listeners
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 7: out there, you may know that I don't know jack
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 7: about fishing. So when I was doing this research, I
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 7: found it extremely surprising that there's like a big, dedicated
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 7: carp community out.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: Here that loves them.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: They're badass fish to catch.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 7: And they treat them as like a naturalized fish. Here
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 7: in the States, thoughts.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 6: I don't think they treat them as a naturalized fish.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 6: I think there's.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 7: There's there's websites of guys who but.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 6: Like I fish a lot, seth fish is a lot.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 6: We don't treat them like a net for sure.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 7: I think there's some carp apologist out but I.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 9: Think there are people that have flats boats in this
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 9: valley focused on cars to go fish.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 5: Carp memorable fish flats boats, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: My most memorable fish fight on the Little Miami River
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: growing up was a big.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: Ass carp that just just ran. Ye just took out
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: drag cool fish.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 5: And yeah, for like fly fishermen in Montana.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 6: The bone fish who always break, how many people are like,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 6: oh yeah, trout took me into my back.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 5: In the back of your guess because you don't know
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 5: how to fight, you know, but you hook into a
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 5: car that's going to take you into your back and
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 5: it's like a really cool Yeah, yeah, it's fun.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: I caught one in downtown Denver on the Platte River
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 3: and on my four weight that was like the best
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: flight I've ever had on a fly rod.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, very cool. I will I will tell you like
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 5: the I was blown away by by how like highly
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 5: edible the carp were in Tennessee. That was that was
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 5: on Lake, Kentucky Lake and excellent. Oh my god, you're
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 5: crazy fishery in general, but the carb situation there's way
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 5: out of hand. And I was fishing with Tennessee Wildlife
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 5: Resource Agency and they have a bumper pole, deep fat
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 5: frar that they take places and they just show people
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 5: how tasty carp is. They're like, any way you want
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 5: to catch it, shoot it whatever, But it's awesome food too.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 4: We should get those guys on the next video.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, we can make that happen.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 9: They probably wouldn't recommend carp all all beer though, Yeah,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 9: they'd recommend carp and beer.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fried carpon.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: Beer's what's this giant carp photo I'm seeing?
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 7: Yeah, this takes us to the current US carp record.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 7: Craig Budo, reporting on a very own media dot com,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 7: turned me onto the story and staid, we had talked
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 7: to this guy, so I call it Scott Lennox, expecting
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 7: to get a few laughs about catching a monster fish
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 7: that nobody cares about, and boy was iron. Scott comes
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 7: from a long line of dedicated trophy carp fishermen with
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 7: adventures from UK, France, Cyprus and now California and UK
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 7: trophy cartfishing. It's like akin to red stag hunting. Those guys.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 7: They're dedicated carp ponds with decades old fish that have
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 7: names and histories, an entire industry built around them.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 5: Cartman will take reservations, yes it yeah.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: It's very exclusive.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 7: Guys will take ten day trips to France, paying thousands
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 7: of dollars in the hope to catch like Big John
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 7: or Eric's common Arnold or something like that. And so
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 7: after Craig or I'm sorry, Scott moved to California and
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 7: finding a distinct lack of the trophy carp industry, he
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 7: began his journey to become a backcountry carp fisherman.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 6: And I'm not kidding, manlain that part to me.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 7: This guy will backpack into lakes and rivers with a
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 7: full setup to fish for carp for six days straight,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 7: seven days straight, in the hope to catch a monster.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 7: He's got scouts out, he's got a whole carp community
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 7: that trades intel and are finding the good lakes and
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 7: his on this specific trip.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: Dude, this dude is so. This guy's more clothing. The
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: first trip, he.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 7: Took a a beach chair and an umbrella and sat
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 7: by his polls around and then eventually he was like,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 7: I can't do this for six days at a time.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 7: And he's he's upgraded to a cot and a tent
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 7: and you know your normal future.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 6: Well, i'll tell you why he doesn't have competition's so surprising.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: So two things on a competition front.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 7: He will not give up his spots, not because he
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 7: doesn't want to engage other carp punters, because he doesn't
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 7: want bow fisherman coming in. It's killing this big carn. Yeah,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 7: he's very, very sensitive, and he treats a carp like
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 7: a dude would treat like a big old sturgeon. Like
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 7: he's so invested in caring for that carp and putting
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 7: it back. I mean, it's it's amazing. So on this
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 7: trip he goes out catch His goal is to catch
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 7: a thirty pounder. On day three, he's get skunked for
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 7: two days. Day three he hooks into a fifty pounder.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 7: Doesn't have any evidence or proof, he doesn't have a
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 7: certified scale, just snaps a picture. His buddy comes out.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 7: He's on like hot standby for a big carp alert.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 7: His buddy comes out has the official scale and Scott
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 7: gets a sixty four pound carp, which beats the current
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 7: US record by two pounds.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: This, this photo shows all that is.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 13: Man.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: He's just a just good, good beard, good fish.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 4: If he pulls the scale off those and like makes
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: a necklace or.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 7: No he doesn't, he doesn't do anything to it. He
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 7: let's just he wants it to be as.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 6: Healthy and get its exactly.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 7: His brother, who's a big tournament carp guy in the UK,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 7: bought his flights the next day to come to the
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 7: California and target big backcountry carp.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: So the UK, this is great, It's amazing.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: Phil we gotta, Phil, we gotta go to Cyprus for
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: carp fishing and one of the few international Benegan's locations.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: Sign me up.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: All right, well, I think that does it for this week.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: Tune in next week. We've got some out of town
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: guests coming to take over the news show. That's right,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: Brent Reeves, Tony Peterson, Maggie Huddler, Jordan Sillers and Mark Kenyon.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: Although no longer an out of town guests, I suppose
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: just a guest, they are taking over the news desks.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: So tune in and then the week after that Steven
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: Marilla will be back here.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: Thanks for watching.