Latest / The Reformatory / Is Gen Z Protestant?

Transcript

Is Gen Z Protestant? · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you got for me?
0:02
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_04]: As long as I'm not for me, we could have had the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_08]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the reformatory, the podcast for the local church and by the local church.
0:44
[SPEAKER_08]: We are your local church, man.
0:46
[SPEAKER_08]: Guess who's back?
0:47
[SPEAKER_08]: Back again.
0:49
[SPEAKER_08]: Yes, who's back Jack?
0:50
[SPEAKER_08]: It's been a minute, man, for, for a myriad of reasons.
0:57
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
0:57
[SPEAKER_08]: All right, like many, many different ones.
1:01
[SPEAKER_08]: Sickness, work schedules, but the best one.
1:05
[SPEAKER_08]: We got to do some breaking news reformatory here.
1:09
[SPEAKER_08]: We've got another, another private has been, has been enlisted in, in Captain Jack's army.
1:15
[SPEAKER_08]: No, little, maybe girl, dude.
1:18
[SPEAKER_08]: Little baby girl.
1:19
[SPEAKER_08]: Give it up for Captain Jack.
1:24
[SPEAKER_09]: All right, that's enough enough.
1:26
[SPEAKER_08]: Dude, how's, how's Mama?
1:28
[SPEAKER_08]: How's the baby?
1:29
[SPEAKER_08]: Congrats, my man, on baby number two.
1:33
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
1:35
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, the labor was surprisingly a lot better than the hospital experience.
1:42
[SPEAKER_09]: So there's we got that going for us.
1:46
[SPEAKER_09]: My wife definitely has to rest up a little bit more.
1:48
[SPEAKER_09]: And so we actually have been
1:53
[SPEAKER_09]: basically like farming our toddler son out to like his grandparents or other different families to like watch him throughout days.
2:03
[SPEAKER_09]: So I might just get sleep and rest her versus trying to
2:14
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's been an adjustment, I feel like the amount of sleep deprivation is definitely up there versus my son and what he put me through.
2:26
[SPEAKER_09]: He didn't really put us through a lot, but I feel like the second kid is always the...
2:32
[SPEAKER_09]: the amperature point in going up so yeah so it's been nice she's really chill I mean she eats and sleeps and poops and that's about it so if you do men drop the name on us let the people know
2:50
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so her name's Sophia.
2:53
[SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, we named her that kind of net name was kind of sticking, I mean, for several months, and so we just put it on our documents and stuff like that and love it.
3:08
[SPEAKER_08]: That's awesome.
3:08
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's awesome.
3:09
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, congrats, man.
3:10
[SPEAKER_08]: It is good to have you back.
3:12
[SPEAKER_08]: Glad that you are back with us in the studio again.
3:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Glad Mama's doing well, baby's doing well.
3:18
[SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, Theo's just going to have to deal with not being the kid at the castle anymore.
3:23
[SPEAKER_08]: Pretty soon.
3:24
[SPEAKER_08]: We're going to have it.
3:26
[SPEAKER_08]: It's going to be the Theo and Sophia show on the potluck.
3:29
[SPEAKER_09]: No, man.
3:29
[SPEAKER_08]: That's what's going to end up happening is.
3:31
[SPEAKER_08]: We're just going to set up two mics and let them talk.
3:36
[SPEAKER_08]: In other news that people probably don't care about if you're watching this as well as listening to this You're gonna see some differences with your hosts.
3:44
[SPEAKER_08]: You're gonna see you're gonna see the chin's the cheeks a little bit more chiseled
3:51
[SPEAKER_08]: Jack and myself have been on record pace for weight loss in our lives.
3:58
[SPEAKER_08]: We're getting, we're getting what we've gone over to the dark side.
4:02
[SPEAKER_08]: We listen to all of the Christian nationalist guys saying that, you know, if you're overweight, you're not a Christian and we're like, you know, what dog on it, they're right.
4:10
[SPEAKER_08]: They're right.
4:11
[SPEAKER_08]: And what have we been doing this entire time?
4:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, no, but uh, we we we have been doing this together.
4:19
[SPEAKER_08]: I as of this month, June.
4:23
[SPEAKER_08]: I am on track to have lost 50 pounds.
4:28
[SPEAKER_08]: nice by the end of this month jack drop drop on the people what what what you're down because you my friend are looking at like a you're looking you're you're back in like military weight right now dude you're looking amazed I don't know about that I still need to lose about 20 pounds to 20 or more to be where I was like when I was in the army but yeah I'm I'm right around so I started
4:57
[SPEAKER_09]: doing stuff around April, and I started at 260, and I'm down to like, I think right around right now, gosh, like 213.
5:09
[SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, hopefully I'll track to be below 200 by the end of June.
5:18
[SPEAKER_09]: So we'll see what happens, but it's really pretty promising right now.
5:22
[SPEAKER_09]: So that's right.
5:22
[SPEAKER_09]: I feel like, you know what, there was a flyer for all the Christian nationalist dudes called, you know, a conference called Muscular Christianity.
5:31
[SPEAKER_09]: And I feel like we could do a better job of explaining that versus all of those guys on that.
5:37
[SPEAKER_09]: Muscular Christianity dude.
5:39
[SPEAKER_09]: I thought that was the key.
5:41
[SPEAKER_08]: I'll be 100% of all the people I thought that was an AI ad.
5:47
[SPEAKER_09]: because I was like, there's no way.
5:49
[SPEAKER_09]: None of those guys listed.
5:50
[SPEAKER_08]: There's no way this is a thing.
5:52
[SPEAKER_08]: I probably have more way than most things we're going to do.
5:55
[SPEAKER_08]: We're going to make conferences out of anything now.
5:58
[SPEAKER_08]: And I looked into it and it's 100% real.
6:00
[SPEAKER_08]: Like, what, like, I don't know what Catholics do.
6:02
[SPEAKER_08]: Like, it's like a decent truck, Christianity.
6:07
[SPEAKER_08]: Driving stick Christianity.
6:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh my goodness Jack, let's get to some business my friend.
6:16
[SPEAKER_08]: It is good to be back in the saddle again Ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna get to a fun topic today, but before we do it's time for everyone's favorite segment Don't forget to eat your instant grams
6:28
[SPEAKER_07]: And know the dirty woman waiting for.
6:30
[SPEAKER_07]: There are homemade dairy broadcast presents.
6:32
[SPEAKER_07]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
6:35
[SPEAKER_07]: With your host, Josh Wachters on Jack Mary.
6:39
[SPEAKER_07]: And remember kids, it's not heresy if you're believable, hard enough.
6:44
[SPEAKER_08]: This is, don't forget to eat your instant grams and remember kids is not here.
6:47
[SPEAKER_08]: See if you believe it hard enough.
6:49
[SPEAKER_08]: That's how it works.
6:49
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm still waiting for a trap beat version of that intro.
6:52
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm still waiting.
6:53
[SPEAKER_08]: I have not received it yet.
6:55
[SPEAKER_08]: The listeners.
6:57
[SPEAKER_08]: If you know someone, I'm waiting for a trap beat, a trap beat version.
7:02
[SPEAKER_08]: I want it to happen.
7:03
[SPEAKER_08]: Jack, my friend, we have got.
7:06
[SPEAKER_08]: Some funny ones for you today.
7:07
[SPEAKER_08]: All right, uh, speaking of, uh, speaking of of muscular Christianity.
7:13
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, gosh, muscular.
7:16
[SPEAKER_08]: All right.
7:17
[SPEAKER_08]: Uh, some of these, some of these conferences, man, are getting a little, they're getting, uh, they're getting, they're getting, let's just say they're getting a little obvious.
7:24
[SPEAKER_08]: All right.
7:25
[SPEAKER_10]: It's that time Charlotte men.
7:26
[SPEAKER_10]: It's our strong men's breakfast, June 13th at 8am.
7:31
[SPEAKER_10]: We've got something really special.
7:33
[SPEAKER_10]: We are raffling off a MK12 designed by Seal team member Marcus Lichrow and signed by him.
7:42
[SPEAKER_10]: The author of Loan Survivor, you can go on freedomhouse.cc slash strong, get registered by some raffle tickets.
7:52
[SPEAKER_10]: I'll see you there.
7:53
[SPEAKER_10]: It's going to be a time of worship, ministry, strong preaching.
7:57
[SPEAKER_10]: Make sure you're there and you can win this gun.
8:00
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
8:04
[SPEAKER_08]: So.
8:06
[SPEAKER_08]: I got to say a couple things for it first off.
8:10
[SPEAKER_08]: this guy's on crack cocaine.
8:13
[SPEAKER_08]: He might have blinked for the time.
8:14
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
8:15
[SPEAKER_08]: The second.
8:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Second.
8:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Second.
8:18
[SPEAKER_08]: you're going to raffle off.
8:19
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I'll be at a nice rifle.
8:21
[SPEAKER_08]: I wouldn't mind that rifle.
8:22
[SPEAKER_08]: That is a blood naked rifle.
8:24
[SPEAKER_08]: There's no sights like there's there's nothing on it, dude.
8:30
[SPEAKER_08]: I do appreciate the trigger discipline.
8:33
[SPEAKER_08]: He is making sure he's not going to get trolled on the internet for any for anything going on that going on.
8:38
[SPEAKER_09]: Just the still right now.
8:40
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, absolutely.
8:41
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that was not
8:44
[SPEAKER_08]: It's geeked out dude.
8:47
[SPEAKER_08]: It's gonna be a strong night of worship.
8:50
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh my gosh, preaching and blowing stuff up.
8:54
[SPEAKER_08]: Gosh, Jack, what would it take for us to go to this conference?
9:00
[SPEAKER_08]: Because I'm not going to lie, I want that rifle.
9:02
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, would it take or this breakfast?
9:04
[SPEAKER_08]: Excuse me.
9:05
[SPEAKER_08]: It's not even a conference.
9:06
[SPEAKER_08]: This is a breakfast.
9:07
[SPEAKER_08]: This is like, this is not your every gentleman.
9:10
[SPEAKER_08]: This is not your every day, 6 a.m. and Saturday morning breakfast.
9:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
9:15
[SPEAKER_08]: All right, you and your little churches, you're doing pancakes.
9:22
[SPEAKER_08]: All right, you're doing your bacon.
9:24
[SPEAKER_08]: You're doing your Costco sausage.
9:26
[SPEAKER_08]: These guys are raffling off military rifles.
9:30
[UNKNOWN]: Thanks.
9:31
[SPEAKER_08]: What are you in your church even doing?
9:33
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
9:34
[SPEAKER_08]: Um, okay.
9:36
[SPEAKER_09]: Zach, Zach, I'm wondering, I'm wondering what's going on with their men's mastery.
9:40
[SPEAKER_09]: Did you guys lose half the men?
9:42
[SPEAKER_09]: Like, what's going on here?
9:43
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
9:43
[SPEAKER_09]: Is this a surge?
9:44
[SPEAKER_09]: We have a lot of guys in the church.
9:46
[SPEAKER_08]: Each men.
9:46
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I don't know if is is Marcus the trail going to be there.
9:50
[SPEAKER_08]: Will the lone survivor be there?
9:52
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's that's what I want to know.
9:54
[SPEAKER_08]: But it's signed by him.
9:55
[SPEAKER_08]: So that's cool.
9:57
[SPEAKER_08]: Jack, um, we're going to go to the exact,
10:01
[SPEAKER_08]: We're going to go to the exact opposite side of this spectrum here, okay?
10:07
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in a series right now called culture where we're talking about our specific cultural values as a church, why we believe, what we believe, why we do, what we do, and this morning I'm going to be talking you guys about our cultural value on prayer.
10:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you didn't know everything we do around here is bathed in prayer.
10:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We have pre-gathering prayer Sunday mornings at 7.45 a.m. if you ever come to first service,
10:29
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay, this is what happens.
10:31
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, you have a toddler get a dad's coat.
10:35
[SPEAKER_08]: Any stands behind the pole, like toddler pulled the coat off of the rack.
10:39
[SPEAKER_08]: And he put it, he put it off.
10:42
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's, you know, it's not bathed in prayer.
10:44
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's that your wardrobe decisions are like what the heck are you doing?
10:48
[SPEAKER_08]: What is happening here?
10:50
[SPEAKER_08]: Is this a like the only thing that I can think of is that this is this this guy looks like this guy looks like the guy who's coming out of the courthouse Who he's getting on trial for murder and he's has the flag jacket on so nobody shoots him like that is absolutely That you're going for right now.
11:08
[SPEAKER_08]: It's a padded.
11:09
[SPEAKER_08]: It's a padded cell jacket is what it is He just got out of Arkham asylum.
11:14
[SPEAKER_08]: No, so for for our for our audio only listeners what we have here is is a man
11:20
[SPEAKER_08]: with an arrow Flynn mustache, a pompadour hairstyle, he's got the what can only be described as like Spike Lee glasses, I guess I don't know like I don't know what that that style is but then the thing about this video
11:38
[SPEAKER_08]: is that he's wearing a puffy vest, a puffy vest, and saintly oversized puffy vest.
11:45
[SPEAKER_08]: This man is at best at best a schmedium.
11:49
[SPEAKER_08]: He's at best a schmedium.
11:50
[SPEAKER_08]: That is a four to five XL vest that he is wearing.
11:54
[SPEAKER_08]: And I don't know is this illustration or is this is this just a new wardrobe like is this the style now in in churches I need someone who is in the know more than me to let me know because this is wild.
12:09
[SPEAKER_09]: This is why he's definitely going for a teenage mutant in your turtle vibe.
12:12
[SPEAKER_09]: It looks like a teenage mutant in your turtle, too.
12:15
[SPEAKER_09]: Like he's the fifth one.
12:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Because the shades that he didn't, he didn't, yeah.
12:19
[SPEAKER_08]: This is the brother he didn't like martial arts.
12:21
[SPEAKER_08]: He stayed home like he was into interior designing and things like that.
12:26
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that was this brother.
12:27
[SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, we're going to get out of that.
12:29
[SPEAKER_08]: That was the instant Graham sling gentleman.
12:31
[SPEAKER_08]: Fun times.
12:33
[SPEAKER_08]: Jack, my friend, you sent me a text while you were on a baby furlough.
12:40
[SPEAKER_08]: you were obviously just either not taking care of the kid at that moment or board out of your mind because I got like broad texts from Jack like this is wild this is wild this is wild you sent me something that was very very interesting that I think it is worth talking about it's a it's a headline from I don't know what
13:04
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what news site, I think it's from a Christian, I think it's from actually Christianity today.
13:08
[SPEAKER_09]: Christianity today.
13:09
[SPEAKER_09]: They put out a survey entitled this.
13:13
[SPEAKER_08]: Gen Z, if this is the title of the survey, Gen Z prefers a generic quote unquote Christian label over that of quote unquote Protestant.
13:24
[SPEAKER_08]: and then the subtitle is younger Americans, even evangelicals, now favor the broader term, but self-identified Protestants have more stable, engaged lives of faith.
13:37
[SPEAKER_08]: So that's an interesting distinction, if true.
13:43
[SPEAKER_08]: that we're seeing this distinction being made with the younger generations moving away from what I think Jack and I would consider historic, historically rooted, confessional Christianity to a more broad term Christian.
14:00
[SPEAKER_08]: right now yeah again like before we we get in get into some of this I have obviously I mean obviously no qualms of with the term Christian I call myself a Christian like that is what I am at the core of who we are we are Christians right we are we are we are ambassadors of Christ so this is not a this is not at all a saying well you know we prefer the term Protestant over Christian
14:29
[SPEAKER_08]: not so much that they are embracing the term Christian, but that they are rejecting the term Protestant.
14:35
[SPEAKER_08]: I think that says something about the state of just the general state of what would be considered by most, again, more than likely not by a biblical standard, but by a worldly
14:56
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
14:57
[SPEAKER_08]: So Jack, why did you send this over and what are some of your initial thoughts?
14:59
[SPEAKER_08]: Because I definitely have some, I've got a, I've got an Instagram reel that I want to play as to one of the reasons why I think we are seeing this shift in younger generations and I would like to provide some hope at the end with some things that I have seen as well from younger generations that I actually find very encouraging.
15:19
[SPEAKER_08]: But let's let's let's address this title first because it pertains to the local church a lot.
15:26
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, very much so I think why I sent it to you, Josh, and primarily why I wanted to chat about this in more of like a dialogue situation.
15:33
[SPEAKER_09]: Primarily is because I think we see younger generations and even in the article,
15:41
[SPEAKER_09]: it it surveyed about over 2300 Gen Z respondents.
15:46
[SPEAKER_09]: So pretty good sample size and most of those.
15:50
[SPEAKER_09]: So the the affiliations were coming in at with 27% they just labeled themselves Christian generic.
15:59
[SPEAKER_09]: Then below that was Catholic.
16:03
[SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
16:03
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
16:04
[SPEAKER_09]: And then below that was nothing in particular
16:09
[SPEAKER_09]: at 16 percent and then you had Protestant at 10 percent and then agnostic at 10 percent.
16:16
[SPEAKER_09]: So Protestantism, we're doing it out with the agnostic.
16:21
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
16:23
[SPEAKER_09]: So something that I'm finding more and more and I don't know if it's just the case studies I'm seeing or just the...
16:31
[SPEAKER_09]: How can I say this?
16:32
[SPEAKER_09]: The vignettes online of people running into Gen Z Christians who are becoming more and more aton with their faith.
16:41
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm seeing more of just like a, and I don't think it's a warning, but I, and I can't really attune it to data like, you know, the folks did on this particular article, but I see more and more
17:00
[SPEAKER_09]: I guess you could say like different conversations about Gen Z Christians, just not taking discipleship seriously, not taking certain doctrines seriously or not looking up the understanding of certain doctrines of the church, of our faith, not understanding church history, just a lot of different things that are a little bit concerning on that level.
17:25
[SPEAKER_09]: I think that's why Josh and I have made several different
17:30
[SPEAKER_09]: Hey, you know, we should be discipling and looking at the next generation and trying to impart whatever wisdom that we have to them and befriending them and talking to them more about their faith and what it means to be.
17:48
[SPEAKER_09]: you know, if you want to say, performed, performed Baptist, even Joligol, we would probably say more historic Protestant, as well too, because all of those things kind of wrap themselves up and kind of historic Protestantism.
18:02
[SPEAKER_09]: So, but I think it's important that when people are starting to label themselves Catholic over Protestantism, I mean, that's not anything new to be quite honest.
18:15
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, the smells and bells are getting to the younger generation as they're getting to a lot of other people within other different generations as well too, that's nothing really anything new.
18:25
[SPEAKER_09]: But I think the difference is that people not really understanding what the titles mean and why we are who we say we are when it comes to labels when it comes to labeling ourselves as well too.
18:39
[SPEAKER_09]: So I think that's why I said that to why it's important that
18:44
[SPEAKER_09]: We're talking about, you know, especially if we're in, I mean, you and I are both in to Protestant churches.
18:51
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
18:54
[SPEAKER_09]: And so we very much take both of our churches, very much take historic Protestantism very seriously, I would say.
19:01
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
19:03
[SPEAKER_09]: And so I think it's important for us to talk about us being in, uh, Protestant churches to talk about, you know, hey, what do we see?
19:13
[SPEAKER_09]: kind of going on with this generation.
19:15
[SPEAKER_09]: Why would they probably want to shut the the title look Protestant off and just go for generic Christian?
19:23
[SPEAKER_09]: Which I have some thoughts of my own as well too.
19:25
[SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, I'm going to kick it over to you.
19:27
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, no, I mean, I think I think so many of these conversations like you already said come down to the topic of of discipleship and the great importance and need that there is within the
19:41
[SPEAKER_08]: equipping the saints, not just the saints that are your age or older, but the saints that are coming after you and the generations after you, right?
19:48
[SPEAKER_08]: Taking the word of God and, you know, I'll paraphrase the quote from Spurgeon, right?
19:55
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, putting it, putting it, you know, in the trees and on the ground where the giraffes and the asses can eat it, right?
20:02
[SPEAKER_08]: That is what we need to be doing is we take these
20:10
[SPEAKER_08]: Right, and that means that you are diligent in informing the young folks in your church, right, because
20:24
[SPEAKER_08]: Gen Z, unlike any generation before them.
20:28
[SPEAKER_08]: I think it started a little bit with us as millennials, but Gen Z's got it, we're square in the jaw and that you have more than ever individuals that are online trying to disciple, trying to inform, trying to influence the minds of young people.
20:52
[SPEAKER_08]: that's just the way it is, right?
20:55
[SPEAKER_08]: And it's very accessible.
20:59
[SPEAKER_08]: It's very easy to do.
21:02
[SPEAKER_08]: So you have a lot of really bad ideas and a really, a lot of very unbiblical ideations and understandings and definitions going around and circulating around these podcasts and the social media accounts and the Facebook and Instagram reels and TikTok and all of that stuff.
21:24
[SPEAKER_08]: And if there is not a culture of discipleship within that young person's church, if they do not have faithful men and women surrounding them,
21:32
[SPEAKER_08]: bringing them up in the Word of God, they're going to be swayed to and fro.
21:36
[SPEAKER_08]: That's just what's going to happen, right?
21:38
[SPEAKER_08]: Because we're all disabled by something.
21:40
[SPEAKER_08]: It's either going to be the Word of God or it's going to be something else.
21:43
[SPEAKER_08]: Whatever the loudest voices in our lives, that's often what we're disabled by most.
21:48
[SPEAKER_08]: and for a lot of agency, that's social media.
21:50
[SPEAKER_08]: And the things that they see online, right?
21:52
[SPEAKER_08]: So it makes sense with the degradation of truth and definitions that's going on in Christianity today.
22:01
[SPEAKER_08]: What does it mean to be a Christian?
22:03
[SPEAKER_08]: It makes sense to me that the term Protestant would be one of the first things that that that we shook.
22:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Right?
22:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Because in the word itself, Protestant, Protestant, it was a protest came out of the reformation.
22:18
[SPEAKER_08]: Right?
22:18
[SPEAKER_08]: It was us making necessary and biblical distinctions between the Roman Catholic Church of the day.
22:25
[SPEAKER_08]: And those distinctions still exist.
22:27
[SPEAKER_08]: In fact, those distinctions have just grown since the time of the reformation, right?
22:33
[SPEAKER_08]: And we've talked about that before.
22:39
[SPEAKER_08]: I would go so far as to say, and again, I don't have data to back this up, but I would not be surprised.
22:45
[SPEAKER_08]: If you have a majority of individuals that claim to be that would call themselves Christian in America, that would see zero distinction between them and the Roman Catholics.
22:54
[SPEAKER_08]: They just think the Roman Catholics are just a little bit more snooty, right?
22:58
[SPEAKER_08]: A little bit more high-chairs, but, but we're all Christian, right?
23:01
[SPEAKER_08]: You have Mormons now that have changed, they've changed the playbook.
23:07
[SPEAKER_08]: They no longer distinguish themselves as more, they're playbook now is to call themselves Christians.
23:13
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
23:14
[SPEAKER_08]: And we're seeing biblical Christianity, get lumped in with Mormonism, get lumped in with Roman Catholicism, get lumped in with seventh-day Adventism, get lumped in with Jehovah's Witness.
23:28
[SPEAKER_08]: And now like it's just a smorgasbord of, you know, pick your vibe of Christianity.
23:34
[SPEAKER_08]: They're really all the same.
23:35
[SPEAKER_08]: There's what flavor of popsicle do you want, right?
23:39
[SPEAKER_08]: And that's what's happening
23:44
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
23:44
[SPEAKER_08]: So we chuck Protestantism because, yeah, I mean, that sounds a little forceful.
23:48
[SPEAKER_08]: We don't want to be known as those that protest.
23:49
[SPEAKER_08]: We want to be those that have unity because it's unity.
23:53
[SPEAKER_08]: It's unity above everything else.
23:55
[SPEAKER_08]: That's what we want.
23:56
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
23:56
[SPEAKER_08]: We don't want to judge.
23:57
[SPEAKER_08]: We want unity.
23:59
[SPEAKER_08]: But we don't want to actually do the work or have the foundation that true unity requires in order to have it.
24:06
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
24:06
[SPEAKER_08]: So.
24:08
[SPEAKER_08]: that I think is a large part of what's going on is it's a failure for folks in my generation and older to be faithful in discipleship within the local church, right?
24:21
[SPEAKER_08]: Again, not across the board, right?
24:22
[SPEAKER_08]: And there's many faithful churches that are doing it, but trends are trends for a reason.
24:28
[SPEAKER_08]: And, and whether it was our generation or the generation or above us, combination of both, you know, refusing to hold the line on things that we should be holding the line on, refusing to open our bibles as much as we should, refusing to not coddle feelings over truth, right?
24:49
[SPEAKER_08]: Like we talked about a couple of episodes ago, being peace, keepers instead of peace makers.
24:54
[SPEAKER_08]: That's how you get trends like this.
24:59
[SPEAKER_08]: You have, you know, young folks with a lot of love in their heart and a desire to, you know, to love people and a desire to be part of something, quote, unquote, bigger than themselves, but they have no foundation of truth.
25:12
[SPEAKER_08]: So everything is true until, you know, the common consensus says that it's not.
25:21
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think another danger to in just having a generic title like kind of what you brought up is the Trojan horse that that generic title brings with it that heretics and false witnesses and false prophets and false teachers are going to basically hide themselves in that Trojan horse and then when it goes through.
25:43
[SPEAKER_09]: and you welcome that Trojan horse into your life and have it camped out then it's gonna wreak havoc.
25:50
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh yeah, it's actually- You got to Netflix documentary being made about that.
25:58
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, yeah, like the like Mormons are now calling themselves Christians, like everybody who we would say, no, those actually aren't historic Bible believing Christians.
26:12
[SPEAKER_09]: Those are actually people who the Bible would say are false teachers and false prophets.
26:18
[SPEAKER_09]: So.
26:20
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think having a generic title doesn't necessarily help you, but I think the other thing is well too, which I'm surprised at in this study.
26:30
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm surprised that there weren't more
26:35
[SPEAKER_09]: maybe like alternative names for Christians because that's been a huge one within the turn of the 21st century is that people stop calling themselves Christians and started calling themselves Christ followers.
26:47
[SPEAKER_09]: Right.
26:47
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm actually surprised Christian was as high as it was.
26:50
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
26:50
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
26:52
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm surprised we didn't get any like apprentices with Jesus followers of the way.
26:59
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm surprised we didn't get an axe throwback.
27:01
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
27:02
[SPEAKER_09]: It's like
27:03
[SPEAKER_09]: I think it said, really, it said, I mean, nothing in particular was that 16% and I mean, something else was like 3% of the label of that survey.
27:17
[SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, I'm just, I'm wondering if even like some of the
27:24
[SPEAKER_09]: younger generation is looking at the term Christian and thinking that somehow it is attaching itself to something else.
27:32
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
27:34
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, if Protestantism isn't just that, or if it's just really like a, it's just a weakness in understanding what Protestantism versus, you know,
27:52
[SPEAKER_09]: you know.
27:53
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, yeah, I don't think that is of Christianity.
27:55
[SPEAKER_08]: So I, I completely agree with that.
27:57
[SPEAKER_08]: I think you, you have like I said, when you don't have a found, when scripture is not your foundation, when it is not your source of truth, you will be, right?
28:06
[SPEAKER_08]: So what we have now is anything
28:14
[SPEAKER_08]: because you don't have a source of truth that you can combat that with, you just have to throw your hands up and be like, I guess, like, that's your brand, that's your vibe of Christianity, right?
28:26
[SPEAKER_08]: To illustrate that point, Jack, Jack, this is another real Jack sent me.
28:31
[SPEAKER_08]: This is, this is, and look, here's the thing, like I want to,
28:40
[SPEAKER_08]: I have grace for those that are new in the faith.
28:45
[SPEAKER_08]: I have grace for those that are that are immature that have come to Christ.
28:51
[SPEAKER_08]: They're they're spiritually immature.
28:54
[SPEAKER_08]: So of course, they're going to they're going to do some weird things things and weird things.
28:57
[SPEAKER_08]: Say some weird things.
28:58
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
29:01
[SPEAKER_08]: I get a little squirrely when those same individuals a week after claiming to be saved are now headlining conferences and teaching individuals about Christianity.
29:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
29:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
29:17
[SPEAKER_08]: That being said, Jackson, me this real and this illustrates the point that we have that that that we are trying to make here that your kids, Gen Z, this is what they're being
29:29
[SPEAKER_08]: If Gen Z does not have a solid local church that they are a part of, where they are being invested in by biblically sound qualified pastors, this is the alternative.
29:53
[SPEAKER_08]: she's a former adult film star that was converted to Christianity, I pray that's true.
30:05
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't know this individual.
30:07
[SPEAKER_08]: I do pray that that is true, but she is an individual that falls under that category that I have that that I was speaking about that she she was saved out of the
30:23
[SPEAKER_08]: uh... baptized all that stuff and then immediately and i mean immediately uh...
30:31
[SPEAKER_08]: was headlining conferences, was Heather, I mean, she, she was given the Kanye, yes, Kanye West treatment, right?
30:40
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
30:41
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, this, you know, this person has all these followers now claims Christ, we need to capitalize on this.
30:46
[SPEAKER_08]: So this is her, I'm assuming on her podcast, interviewing these two
31:02
[SPEAKER_08]: You name your son in Phoenix.
31:04
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I know this is going to be a problem.
31:06
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
31:07
[SPEAKER_08]: Phoenix and Cody of Eden.
31:11
[SPEAKER_08]: That is their title of Eden Ministries.
31:15
[SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
31:16
[SPEAKER_08]: Eden Ministries.
31:17
[SPEAKER_08]: And this is a sample of what a lot of Gen Z is being deciphered with right here.
31:27
[SPEAKER_03]: your giftings to.
31:28
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it ties directly into what you're doing.
31:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
31:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I let him explain mine because I don't like it.
31:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have the ability to see in the square room, you know, just like a lot of people could in the Bible.
31:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they are in the Bible.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: They are called Sears.
31:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's a title.
31:44
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people call me and stuff.
31:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just like Samuel in the Bible, he was able to see things all the time and stuff.
31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost is another one.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: A mess.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I would
31:53
[SPEAKER_08]: He just said, almost.
31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
31:56
[SPEAKER_08]: Said, almost.
32:00
[SPEAKER_08]: Let's continue.
32:01
[SPEAKER_08]: So it's wrong.
32:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Almost.
32:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, who's that?
32:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, that's whatever.
32:06
[SPEAKER_08]: Whatever.
32:07
[SPEAKER_08]: Whatever.
32:08
[SPEAKER_08]: I can see in the spirit realm.
32:09
[SPEAKER_08]: I can see angels.
32:10
[SPEAKER_08]: I see Jesus, but whatever.
32:11
[SPEAKER_08]: Whatever.
32:12
[SPEAKER_08]: Whatever.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You could also see in the spirit realm.
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Elijah, Daniel, Peter, John.
32:18
[SPEAKER_08]: he's listing all the best guys are you noticing this who how would you commit jack let me ask you question who would you compare yourself to uh... if you compare yourself to anybody in the bible and you just start listing off the a to the avengers of bible characters david also the almost a nineteen uh... nineteen ninety five majorly baseball eighty five shicago bears that's what i would if i could
32:48
[SPEAKER_08]: It would be either the 85 bears or the New England Patriots just as a franchise, okay?
32:54
[SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, let's continue here.
32:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, all these people, it's always the same people having encounters with angels and stuff because they could see it, you know?
33:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's something I just have always been able to do since I was little, like I don't even know what it's like to not.
33:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Which, somehow, I see Jesus in the spirit of during some sessions or sometimes during that church or something like, he'll make an appearance like I see, I see his light in every single believer in Christ.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: and especially when I'm doing deliver instructions and he shows me the courts of heaven where we're going and he's standing there for the person I'm praying for in the courtrooms of heaven.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: He always just looks like a man made out of pure golden light.
33:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Where I can't even, he's so bright I can't even make out any facial features or anything like that.
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I just looks like a man made up pure golden, this liquid golden light.
33:32
[SPEAKER_06]: And the reason that he sees it like that as well is like there's other series right and then yes, please tell us Tell us what We know the other series David yeah, yeah, there's there's a man named Joseph Joseph Joseph Smith yes
33:51
[SPEAKER_06]: have all seen Jesus is a very common thing.
33:53
[SPEAKER_06]: They seem a little bit differently.
33:54
[SPEAKER_06]: Some people could see him as like a man because that's just the way their brain works, that's the way he presents himself to them.
33:59
[SPEAKER_06]: The way that he sees things we've come to learn is the embodiment of whatever that thing is.
34:05
[SPEAKER_06]: And so he code.
34:08
[SPEAKER_08]: I saw Jesus as a Nicaraguan cigar because that is what he is to me.
34:14
[SPEAKER_08]: That is what I love, he knows that I love it.
34:18
[SPEAKER_08]: So he manifested himself, dude, here's like, obviously we're making fun of this for a reason, right?
34:23
[SPEAKER_08]: Because there are some things that deserve to be mocked and this deserves to be mocked.
34:27
[SPEAKER_08]: These two guys.
34:30
[SPEAKER_09]: are wolves out of their element are out of absolutely out of their element.
34:35
[SPEAKER_08]: First they are they are complete wolves.
34:38
[SPEAKER_08]: They're complete their complete charlatans either that or they are seeing real things and it's Satan.
34:45
[SPEAKER_08]: Those are the two options.
34:47
[SPEAKER_08]: They're either lying or they're seeing Satan because this is not how Christianity works.
34:52
[SPEAKER_08]: But all of that to
34:59
[SPEAKER_08]: people are being discipled by every single day.
35:04
[SPEAKER_08]: These are what the major quote unquote Christian influencers are doing.
35:11
[SPEAKER_08]: And these are the types of people that they're having on their huge podcasts because this is what sells tickets, right?
35:19
[SPEAKER_08]: It's not the
35:23
[SPEAKER_08]: solid historical doctrine, theological truth, that is scripture because that's not flashy.
35:32
[SPEAKER_08]: It's signs and wonders.
35:35
[SPEAKER_08]: So you have individuals like this that are peddling their wires and you have that what's her face talking about pastors getting seduced by
35:48
[SPEAKER_08]: and this is what social media is feeding the younger generations and if they don't have a solid local church and solid men and women around them that are discipling this is why we see the results in the surveys that come out that we do because this is what they're being discipled by right there's an urgency here Jack that we in the local churches
36:15
[SPEAKER_08]: should not be lazy and allow social media to continue to disciple our kids and the young folks in our church because social media is not going to go away and it's not going to take a break and it's not going to be lazy.
36:32
[SPEAKER_08]: Social media is going to do it one way or the other.
36:35
[SPEAKER_08]: It does require us to be more than that, right?
36:40
[SPEAKER_08]: Which is where?
36:41
[SPEAKER_08]: again, to hopefully not just just leave on a on a down or not.
36:46
[SPEAKER_08]: Jack, I can say that I am encouraged because I am seeing not just in my own church, but also in conversations, people that message us online, people that that that that we see at in in other churches there, there is a research and small though it may be, but it's happening of true confessionalism.
37:05
[SPEAKER_08]: biblical, historical, confessionalism that takes the Word of God's serious, that takes the historical truths of Protestant Christianity.
37:15
[SPEAKER_08]: That has been passed down through history that has an ardent adherence to the Word of God.
37:24
[SPEAKER_08]: I am seeing a resurgence of that in the young folks, and it is exciting.
37:29
[SPEAKER_08]: I am seeing these strong men and women come to an understanding of the doctrines of grace, come to an understanding of covenantal theology, Christ's imputed righteousness, His active obedience for us, and they're eating it up.
37:46
[SPEAKER_08]: And I'm thinking of conversations I've had with young folks in my own church where, you know, they're having conversations with friends that they've been, they've been friends with for years and they're coming and you know, to us and saying, hey, I was having this conversation my friend was saying this and this is how I responded and I'm like, that you would not have responded that way two years ago.
38:06
[SPEAKER_08]: You would have just thrown your hands up and probably been just like, yeah, you know, I mean, that's what you believe.
38:12
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
38:13
[SPEAKER_08]: And so that's not quite what I believe, but it's okay that no, you met that error with truth and you did it graciously.
38:19
[SPEAKER_08]: Dude, it's it's exciting Jack, but.
38:23
[SPEAKER_08]: it requires that we don't take the foot off the gas pedal, right?
38:27
[SPEAKER_08]: Like, yeah, like we have to we have to be we have to be proactive in the lives of young folks.
38:35
[SPEAKER_08]: To equip them so that when they see those reels and they listen to those podcasts and they have friends that send them those reels.
38:42
[SPEAKER_08]: Have you seen this this knowledge rating so powerful.
38:46
[SPEAKER_08]: They're able to deduce truth from error and to do it well, right?
38:53
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and I think to like something that hopefully will go forth is the fact that, you know, right now, even we have in my local church, we have a ministry that's headed up by a guy who actually preached yesterday kind of pulp it filled because our pastors are out at a conference,
39:21
[SPEAKER_09]: young men and women are trying to go into sports ministry and they're in college right now.
39:25
[SPEAKER_09]: And so he's hosting them.
39:27
[SPEAKER_09]: Um, so he's hosting.
39:29
[SPEAKER_09]: He runs the internship program for a sports ministry here in a Puget.
39:35
[SPEAKER_09]: They're not with the South Puget Sound and Pierce County area in Washington.
39:39
[SPEAKER_09]: So, and yeah, it's it's encouraging to see them starting to kind of
39:49
[SPEAKER_09]: Um, but yeah, you are always, I mean, I think the optics is always the discouraging thing, right?
39:55
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, every year we would get that Ligonier survey of what evangelicals believe, right?
40:01
[SPEAKER_09]: And it's just the worst.
40:02
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, dude.
40:03
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's worse every year.
40:04
[SPEAKER_08]: It's like, oh, there we go.
40:06
[SPEAKER_09]: Is Jesus a Korean being like 76% said, yes, it's like, oh, my gosh.
40:10
[SPEAKER_09]: Like, what are we doing?
40:13
[SPEAKER_09]: I think it's just the same thing, like we don't want those same things to carry on from generation to generation, like we want those things nipped in the bud, right?
40:22
[SPEAKER_09]: And we want those things to be understood rather than just more of like a, oh well, you do you kind of attitude.
40:35
[SPEAKER_09]: or I'm kind of indifferent to that.
40:38
[SPEAKER_09]: So I'm not even going to kind of wait into those water.
40:40
[SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, I think what Josh and I really would love to see is just local churches.
40:45
[SPEAKER_09]: If you have folks who are part of Gen Z, like start to ask them questions, start to ask them and see where they're at as far as, you know, what did they believe as far as doctrine goes?
40:58
[SPEAKER_09]: I know we just had so in our church.
41:02
[SPEAKER_09]: are Sunday school classes for certain kids only go up to about the fifth grade.
41:08
[SPEAKER_09]: I think the fourth of the fifth grade and after that grade they come and join us in service.
41:13
[SPEAKER_09]: And so there's a range of certain age groups.
41:19
[SPEAKER_09]: that have learned stuff and then are now coming in to like really sitting under expository preaching and understanding stuff.
41:28
[SPEAKER_09]: And there's going to be a gap there.
41:29
[SPEAKER_09]: There's going to be an understanding gap there.
41:31
[SPEAKER_09]: There's going to be an understanding gap for, I think people who are coming to the faith and just not sure how to go about certain doctrines of the faith that have been historically known and also historically.
41:46
[SPEAKER_09]: smeared by the papus to say it as easily as I can.
41:53
[SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, I mean, there's things that we need to be on guard for and if we aren't looking out for that next generation to basically tell them stuff, they're just going to basically, if you don't
42:08
[SPEAKER_09]: like that old adage like if you don't you know tire if you don't do something about this like you'll fall for everything or something like that you'll fall for everything and so I think what Josh and I really would just encourage you in your local church to do just
42:25
[SPEAKER_09]: start befriending younger people and make it a way for you to disciple them in the faith.
42:33
[SPEAKER_09]: I think that's what we need the most.
42:35
[SPEAKER_09]: And I think a lot of churches are understanding that as well too.
42:41
[SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, I think that's one, I think that's the biggest reason why I set you that, but the other thing too is just titles matter and yeah, if we just generically are going to throw out the name Christian with no real backing to what that means.
42:58
[SPEAKER_09]: There's danger because you can have, like I said, all these other false testimonies and false prophets and false religions start to come in and hitch their wagon towards the title of Christian, say, oh, we're Christian too, but they're really not.
43:15
[SPEAKER_08]: So, no.
43:17
[SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely, man.
43:18
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
43:18
[SPEAKER_08]: There's a lot of work that needs to be done out there as always is the same with every generation, right?
43:23
[SPEAKER_08]: But there's there's a lot of hope.
43:25
[SPEAKER_08]: I have a lot of hope for Genzi.
43:27
[SPEAKER_08]: I have I have I am excited to see the resurgence of confessionalism within the local church.
43:35
[SPEAKER_08]: Like I'm I'm seeing it happen and it's exciting.
43:39
[SPEAKER_08]: But even in that research, there's a great need for discipleship, because just as there are a lot of individuals who claim to be Christian, yet do not hold to the principles of Christianity, I would say there are many, many that would call themselves confessional, that do not hold to confessional standards, and a lot of them have podcasts and books and conferences and big Twitter followers.
44:08
[SPEAKER_08]: but that's another episode for another attack.
44:12
[SPEAKER_08]: Jack, my friend.
44:14
[SPEAKER_08]: It's been a minute, little rusty, but why don't you get us out of here now.
44:18
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, if you appreciate Josh and I is, um, uh, I guess, good old, uh, taking a nice little college swing at making the local church central police called the good old college try to make the seminary swing the local church central to the believer's life if you appreciate what Josh and I do to try and make that.
44:42
[SPEAKER_09]: integrated that your local church would be a part of your everyday life.
44:47
[SPEAKER_09]: Every week, weekend, week out, that you would gather with your local church on the Lord's Day, that you would look to them for discipleship and also fellowship and encouragement and growth in your faith.
45:01
[SPEAKER_09]: If you want to continue following us in our endeavors here on the podcast, you can follow us on
45:11
[SPEAKER_09]: It sounds so weird, because they don't have metaphors, it's just meta, or the things that don't know.
45:16
[SPEAKER_09]: You can follow us there.
45:19
[SPEAKER_09]: You can follow us on the Instant Grand, there's Will With Chocolate Marshmallow, maybe we'll sprinkle a little heresy on top of that as well too, or you can follow us on the...
45:27
[SPEAKER_09]: Uh, sociable formerly known as Twitter X as well too, uh, you can follow us at those sociables at the tag at or from a tour pod.
45:34
[SPEAKER_09]: Drop us a direct message, episode ideas, questions, comments, concerns, anything on those lines.
45:39
[SPEAKER_09]: Josh, you can tell the lovely people how they might support us further here in our endeavors.
45:44
[SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
45:45
[SPEAKER_08]: If you want to support the reformatory in more ways, then just listen to this episode.
45:48
[SPEAKER_08]: There's a couple of ways to do that.
45:49
[SPEAKER_08]: You can head on over to YouTube and watch this episode as well.
45:52
[SPEAKER_08]: Listen to it.
45:53
[SPEAKER_08]: It does make the Instagrams a lot.
45:55
[SPEAKER_08]: More fun, like comments, subscribe.
45:56
[SPEAKER_08]: Hit the little bell for notifications as the kids say.
45:58
[SPEAKER_08]: We would definitely appreciate it.
46:00
[SPEAKER_08]: You can like this podcast, rate this podcast on Apple and Spotify asks that you do that as well.
46:04
[SPEAKER_08]: Does help get the podcast out to more people.
46:06
[SPEAKER_08]: So more people might be encouraged in their commitment to the local church.
46:10
[SPEAKER_08]: And that's always a good thing.
46:12
[SPEAKER_08]: Last but not least, we do have a Patreon for $5 a month.
46:14
[SPEAKER_08]: It's the cheapest round, ladies and gentlemen, biggest bang for your buck.
46:19
[SPEAKER_08]: You could become a Patreon supporter, get this episode early, get multiple bonus episodes every single week, and it's a lot of fun over there.
46:26
[SPEAKER_08]: If you choose to do that for $5 a month, our pledge to you is that your name shall be hallowed.
46:32
[SPEAKER_08]: hallowed to hallowed to the halls of the podcast that is our pledge to you.
46:37
[SPEAKER_08]: We thank you all