Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / When Food Becomes the Enemy: Helping Kids Through Eating Disorders [Parental Guidance Ep. 3]

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When Food Becomes the Enemy: Helping Kids Through Eating Disorders [Parental Guidance Ep. 3] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: All this week on the Happy Families podcast, it's been
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: a conversation about body image, following up from the third
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: episode of Parental Guidance on Channel nine. If you haven't
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: checked it out yet, you can stream it via replay
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: on nine Now could they Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: It's Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: parenting podcast, where Justin and Kylie Coulson are really really, really,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: really really tough conversation. Today we're talking about eating disorders
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: and more specifically the impact of anarexia. A lot of
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the stats ninety percent of teenagers have negative thoughts about
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: their bodies. We have far too many of our mainly
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: young women, although young men to a lesser degree, who
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: are really struggling with psychologically challenging issues around body image
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: that lead to in some cases, the very worst of outcomes. Kylie,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: we were introduced to four new focus families.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Elvy and Sean.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: We are authoritative parents.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: We have high expectations on our children.
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: In the meantime, were set strict rules and boundaries.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Nick and Sophia where the positivity parents, where confidence is key.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Josh and Cassie.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: We are the life school parents, and we use real
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: life experiences to educate our kids and Amandarin has Son.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: We choose to parent the hard way. We don't take shortcuts.
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: It's hard on us for easing the fun for the kids.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Parental Guidance, we met an
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: incredible young woman who was gripped by this deadly disease
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  Speaker 1: of the mind.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Force yourself to eat it, Ashley, yes, she can.
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  Speaker 2: Sure you're punishing me. I'm not punishing you.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: You are choosing to listen to the voice instead.
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  Speaker 6: What is a voice saying right now?
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  Speaker 5: So you need to do the opposite?
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: What does it.
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  Speaker 5: Feel like to complete your meal? Yeah?
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Loves watching that. Watching Ashley Kylie, I I'm speechless.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: Like the.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Pain, the difficulty, the challenge that this family has been
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: through in so many other families.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: How do you even react to that?
• 2:31
  Speaker 6: As we've been going through each episode, obviously her scream
• 2:35
  Speaker 6: is part of your promo, and I've been trying to
• 2:38
  Speaker 6: work out what the noise was. It's been just really
• 2:42
  Speaker 6: I've been struggling to wrap my head around what that
• 2:45
  Speaker 6: noise was and to actually put it into context and
• 2:49
  Speaker 6: to see.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: It's hard to fund the words.
• 2:52
  Speaker 6: Isn't it to see the immense struggle, like the depth
• 2:56
  Speaker 6: of struggle it was for her to just put food
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: in her mouth, yeah, and to have it there but
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: not be willing to swallow or like.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Just her mum that you can't let the voice win.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, oh my goodness, how do you deal with that?
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: I think a challenge like that would literally test anybody
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: to their very core.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Every relationship, every relationship. So that was actually her parents
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: are Candle and Andrew. Ashley is now a healthy and
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: strong young woman. Nine years later she joined us on
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: the episode. It was Oh, it was such an inspiring conversation.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. So we asked her how this battle
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: first started for her.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: I started following these influences online that were posting photos
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: of their shopping trolleys. And I was looking to these
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: people that were seeming like they were happy when they
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: were going on a diet or when they were losing weight.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: And so I was constantly being reinforced that who why
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: I was and what I looked like was not enough.
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  Speaker 6: I know that as you were going through social media
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  Speaker 6: and with the algorithms, you were just seeing this certain
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: image really dangerous diets.
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  Speaker 4: I really wanted to then have a flat stomach. I
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: do all the seven minute workouts or the ad workouts,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: and then the more I lost, the more validation I
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: got in the sense of or you look amazing, what
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: are you doing? You're so fit, you look great, And
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  Speaker 4: it was feeding me like I was then striving for that,
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  Speaker 4: and I was seeking that because it's like you're possessed.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Kennell became not a moment anymore.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: She became a care which was a big task, and
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  Speaker 1: then I became the parent for the other two kids
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  Speaker 1: and look after the house.
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  Speaker 3: Can you explain to all of us what it was
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  Speaker 3: like at its worst? At its worst is that I
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: have met the devil. You know, you could physically see
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Ashley eyes roll back and this different, demonized voice would
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: come forward. It was going to walk. We were basically
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: told to take a home. She's got the most extreme
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  Speaker 3: eating disorder and probably the highest mortality rate, and you
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: just need to get food in, you know, as she
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: wouldn't even brush your cheeks. She wouldn't even drink water
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  Speaker 3: because she thought it had calories in it.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't want to be here. I didn't feel like
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: anybody loved me. I didn't feel like I was worthy
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: of being loved. And when I was admitted into hospital,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: into a children's mental health war, you were on your own,
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: and you're like twelve or thirteen, and you've just got
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: no family. I had mom turn up every single day
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: at nine am and then be told to leave at night.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: And for someone that thought that nobody loved her, but
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: to have her mum turn up every single day, while
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: there were other kids in there that had their mum
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: come drop them off and then never return, I thought, Wow,
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  Speaker 4: I'm like wasting away my life so selfie. When I
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: have a mum and a family that's so willing to
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: fight for me. That's when I made the decision that
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: I'm going to give full recovery a go. And I mean,
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: here we are nine years later.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: On Oh my goodness, that's a lot.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: We're going to be back after the break and discuss
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the science to look for if you concerned it all
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: about your child and how we can deal with this
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: as parents. Okay, so you've just heard Ashley's harrowing story
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  Speaker 1: going to hell and back fighting anarexia. Her parents, Kendall
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and Andrew just amazing people, Amazing people who saved Ashley
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I think saved her life, certainly saved her from herself
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  Speaker 1: in so many ways.
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  Speaker 6: Kylie listening to Ashley's acknowledgment that before she went to hospital,
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: she honestly number one, didn't believe she was.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Lovable, oh my goodness, and.
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  Speaker 6: Didn't feel loved. And you look at the immense care
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: and attention that her parents were giving to her in
• 7:05
  Speaker 6: spite of the way she felt. And it wasn't until
• 7:09
  Speaker 6: she had the stark contrast of being dropped off at
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: the hospital and seeing her mum come every single day
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: while other kids had been dropped off and didn't see
• 7:20
  Speaker 6: their parents at all, and that was her wake up call.
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  Speaker 6: But I guess the thing that stands out to me
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  Speaker 6: the most is even the very best of us can
• 7:31
  Speaker 6: find ourselves at a place where our kids feel unlovable,
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  Speaker 6: feel unloved by us in spite of everything we're doing.
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  Speaker 1: There's a I mean, I'm always talking about how kids
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: fell love time and talking about the important of connection,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: feeling seen, heard and valued. But there's something that I
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: don't mention often and I probably should, and that is
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: that perception is reality. So perception is that we're doing
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: all that we can, but to our children, what's going
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  Speaker 1: on in their minds? How are they perceiving our relationship
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: with them, How are they perceiving the connection, because we
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: know that when that relationship is solid and strong, they
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: tend to stay away from these challenging situations.
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: I guess the other thing to acknowledge, though, is just
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: like in the conversation we had in yesterday's episode about
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: the distortion of my reality when I looked in the mirror,
• 8:29
  Speaker 6: when our kids are starting to struggle with mental illness,
• 8:32
  Speaker 6: their reality is distorted. So we could be doing everything
• 8:37
  Speaker 6: right and I say that in inverted commas, but we
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: could literally be giving them every good thing. But as
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: they're spiraling down, their perception is so warped. It is
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  Speaker 6: so lacking in realness. I don't know how has to
• 8:52
  Speaker 6: say it, and so I really just wanted to highlight
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  Speaker 6: that if you find yourself in that situation, it's not
• 9:00
  Speaker 6: to say that you've done anything wrong, but we have
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: to find a way to help them out of it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the critical thing. If their perception is
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  Speaker 1: creating the reality in their minds that the connection is
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  Speaker 1: not there, finding a way to make the connection is
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  Speaker 1: just that that becomes the number one job of parents.
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  Speaker 6: Andrew's acknowledgment that Kendall literally became Ashley's career in those
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: couple of years while she was fighting this battle, mum
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: literally took on a twenty four to seven carer's role
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  Speaker 6: and he had to pick up the pieces.
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  Speaker 1: All right, So let's talk warning signs. This is an
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: area that requires a high level of specialty, and I
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: haven't started in this area. I mean, I've got some
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: general things that I can be useful for in conversations
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  Speaker 1: about anorexia and eating disorders, but it's actually not me,
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  Speaker 1: it's not what I do. We do have somebody who
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: is a specialist in this area fifteen years of experience.
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  Speaker 1: Gregory is an Illawara based psychologist who specializes in eating disorders.
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  Speaker 1: She's also a mum of two and Christine joins us.
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  Speaker 2: Now, Hi Christine, justin, Hi Kylie Christine.
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  Speaker 6: We've got three questions for you in relation to this.
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  Speaker 6: My first one is what other signs parents need to
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: look out for if they've got concerns.
• 10:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, great question. I think that I'd probably break that
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: down into two sections. And what I really want to
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: focus on for you at this point is those early
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: warning signs because we know that treatment is so much
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: better if we can get it early. So some of
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  Speaker 5: the things that you might see early on in the
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  Speaker 5: piece is maybe your child is wearing really loose, baggy clothing.
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  Speaker 5: So that could be for two reasons. One might be
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  Speaker 5: to disguise some weight loss, but also because their skin
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  Speaker 5: becomes a little bit sensitive and they prefer to wear
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  Speaker 5: looser clothing. So that's one of the early things. Other
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: things you might know is not wanting to eat with
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: you at the family dinner table, or pushing food around,
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: or becoming particularly health conscious, which can get a bit
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  Speaker 5: disguised between like, oh, we're really proud of our child
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  Speaker 5: for wanting to eat healthy food and wanting to do
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: more exercise, but then that can go too far. So
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  Speaker 5: if they're really avoiding things, like if they've always loved
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  Speaker 5: chocolate and even though they're on a health kick, they're
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: still avoiding chocolate and it's their favorite, that should be
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: a little flag, you know, we should still be able
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: to have some balance there. And then obviously later on
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  Speaker 5: like that, the weight losses is probably one of the
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: more significant things. Avoiding social outings, not wanting to go out,
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: and then the excessive exercise, so really prioritizing exercise over
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: everything else.
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  Speaker 1: This seems insidious to me because as a parent who
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: wants children to be healthy and happy, seeing a child
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: making wise diet choices and getting physically fit and active,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's got to be a wonderfully rewarding thing
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: for both you and your child. And of course we
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: don't want to pathologize a child who wants to be
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: healthy either. So this is this is really tricky, isn't it.
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  Speaker 1: There's got to be a whole web, a whole lot
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  Speaker 1: of things that are all leaning in this in this direction.
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: You guys know your children the best, so if there's
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: some personality changes happening along with this, if they're being
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: really snappy at you, particularly around meal times, that they're
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: the sort of things that add to it other than
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: just healthy eating.
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: Christine, is it possible to offer general advice to parents
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: with such a complex reality.
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, look, it is. It is really really complicated, and
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: for any parents that have been through this with their child,
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: they will know it is absolutely one of the hardest
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: things you can possibly go through. Aside from that, one
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: of the things that I would really say that's important
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: is patience, and it is essentially your job as a
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: parent to feed your child. So if they're at the
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: dinner table and refusing to eat, you need to have
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: all the time in the world to sit there with
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: them and encourage them and make sure they eat their food.
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: And you do it kindly, you do it firmly, and
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: you just make sure it happens. It's very, very difficult
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: because that could take hours, but you need to show
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: that eating disorder that you're stronger than it. You've got
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: more patience than it, you've got more time than it,
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: and it doesn't matter what it's telling your child to do,
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: You're going to be there and make sure they eat regardless.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I'm almost weeping as you say that, because that's what
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: we see in the episode. I mean, the interaction that
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: we see is precisely an extraordinarily patient mother saying we
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: are going to beat this voice. We're going to do
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: whatever it takes to get this food into you. Absolutely,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and I'm getting weepy just thinking about it.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Just so profound. I love that advice.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: The other thing that I think is always imperative. You
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: just reminded me as you talking about it, is one
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: of the things I would do is separate the eating
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: disorder voice from your child voice. So recognize that they're
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: two different things. Because when you're in the thick of this,
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: this isn't my child. They didn't behave like this, they
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: didn't have this attitude, and that is the eating disorder
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: voice that's coming through, And what you want to do
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: is talk to your child, not to the eating disorder.
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: Well, Christine, I'm not sure if this is a fair
• 14:25
  Speaker 6: question to ask, considering that each circumstance will be different
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: for different families. But I'm wondering if there are any
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: main drivers that we see across the board that would contribute.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Or create or create eating disorders.
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good question, and it's a really common
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: one that parents will often ask me is where did
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: this come from? How did my child end up with this?
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: And the reality is we don't know. So we're looking
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: at lots of DNA studies, we're looking at genetically. There
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: does seem to be a link. We do know that
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: there's certain personality styles that are more likely to fall
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: into these kind of habits. So if you're more of
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: that type a personality, you like to do things, when
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: you do it, you do it well, so if you're
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: going to lose weight, you're going to lose weight really well,
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: there's some things that do contribute, but I guess I
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: guess I would actually worn off looking too much at
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: what's caused it and looking at fixing it.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Again, it goes back to that whole We could pathologize
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: everything and say everything's a predictor of, or a cause of,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: or a potential risk factor, and it's more about keeping
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the kids healthy and safe.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, though, I know that.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Eating disorders existed before screens, but how much do you
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: think that screens and specifically social media have amplified or
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: magnified or exacerbated this issue.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: I think what I see is that the screens and
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: the media and you know, back in the day used
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: to be magazines, all of that. I think what they
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: lead to is a dissatisfaction with body image. I think
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: when we start looking at the extremes of anorex nivosa,
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: blieming novosa, those factors, the incidents aren't necessarily going up
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: based on that. But what we do know is people
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: are less satisfied with their bodies. So it breeds more
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: of the diet culture, which then means that the eating
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: disorders can hide within that.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 16:26
  Speaker 6: I said I had three questions, but I actually have
• 16:28
  Speaker 6: another one for you. If parents are concerned, where do
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: they go to get the help that they need?
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's really really important to get the right
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: medical attention. You'll end up with lots of appointments, but
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: it's important to get people that understand and know eating
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: disorders because, like you said before, justin like, some of
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: these qualities are really good. So if you get someone
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: that doesn't understand the pathology of an eating disorder, they
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: might be recommending things that are actually going to cause
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: harm to your child. So I would say the Butterfly
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: Foundation has a national register of gp psychiatrist, psychologists, dietitians,
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: So Butterfly dot org dot AU would be my recommendation
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: of where to go.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're refers to We referred to them in
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the show as well, so I'm really glad that you're
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: recommending them.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: We think that they're great as well.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: They are absolutely fantastic.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Christine Gregory is an Illa, Warror based psychologist who specializes
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: in eating disorders. I really appreciate your time, Christine. Thank
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: you for that. Tomorrow tomorrow on the pod, what are
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: the biggest moments unexpectedly when everything went sideways, something that
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: really captured everyone unawares. We'll be talking about that.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: As life school parents, we think a good compliment is
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: one that comes from the heart and it's ris pretty.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: How's a peg?
• 17:51
  Speaker 7: Don't we all?
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: Some nice?
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: Nice hair?
• 17:54
  Speaker 6: Is that so?
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: Hair?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Nice skin?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Nice skin?
• 17:59
  Speaker 7: I can't whether or not you believe that you're limiting
• 18:03
  Speaker 7: their opportunities for careers later Like you said, well, if
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: they want to be a doctor, they can be a doctor. Realistically,
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: I don't see that happening if they can't read.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast returns tomorrow, please join us for
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: what should be just a really riveting conversation.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: We really appreciate the work of Justin Rouland for Bridge Media.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: He's our producer.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is the executive producer of the podcast, and
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Mmhammonds provides all the research and other support to make
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the pod happen. If you'd like more information to make
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: your family happier, please visit us for more at happy
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: families dot com dot au and we will link to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: all the resources to help with eating disorders and the
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: things we've talked about in this podcast in the show notes,