Latest / Walking with Jaguars / #2 - Markos Sikiotis - The Brilliance of Master Plant Teachers

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#2 - Markos Sikiotis - The Brilliance of Master Plant Teachers · Walking with Jaguars

• 0:12
  okay welcome back to the walking with jaguars
• 0:16
  podcast i am your host matt blanco and today
• 0:20
  we are here with marcos tikiotes he is a bitcoiner
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  he is an ayahuasca he is a jail island australia
• 0:31
  escapee he's also my best mate and i guess like
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  to some degree like kind of kind of like my protege
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  a little bit you know um we've been friends for
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  a long time uh but i had the opportunity to kind
• 0:52
  of pull him out of sydney and bring him to peru
• 0:54
  and show him the wonderful world that i live
• 0:56
  in and ever since he's been ride or die uh you
• 1:01
  know running the mission so yeah if there's anything
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  you want to say like just how you would describe
• 1:08
  yourself other than Other than what I said, feel
• 1:11
  free. Oh, goodness. I also like music. That's
• 1:16
  another one. Music's cool. Yeah. Brilliant musician.
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  Okay. Thank you. Let's just dive straight in.
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  Okay. So are plants conscious? Yes. The short
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  answer is yes. And the long answer is it depends
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  on how you define conscious. But from my perspective,
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  yes, they receive information and they send information
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  just like any other conscious being. And they're
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  present. They're present. We can interact with
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  them. And they'll even speak to you if you know
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  how to hear what they're saying. They don't necessarily
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  speak with words like humans do. They don't purr
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  like a cat, but they have their own forms of
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  communication, especially within themselves.
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  And as humans, it's very easy to be conditioned
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  to learn how to only interact with very direct
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  communication, very explicit pieces of information
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  in our experience. Whereas the plants, they speak
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  in subtler ways. And that often means that you
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  need a subtle sense to receive what they're trying
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  to tell you. So yes, some people would look at
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  that and be like, oh, they don't have a mind
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  or they don't have organs like humans do, sensory
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  organs like humans do. And therefore, we can't
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  materially conclude that they are conscious.
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  as far as i'm concerned i've had conversations
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  with them as profound as any conversation that
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  i've had with a human yeah and i think this is
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  like going to be an underlying tone to like this
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  whole conversation is like as soon as we start
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  talking about things that to some degree are
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  like i want to say irrational but non -rational
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  you know like beyond beyond rationality yeah
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  that's a better way to say it it really comes
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  down to like direct experience versus knowledge
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  you know like you can't if you go into a book
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  to read about plants like you may you know find
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  their latin name and the way that they you know
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  reproduce and whatnot but the way they're able
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  to communicate with us through direct experience
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  is very different you know and like you only
• 3:58
  need to have one direct experience of this like
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  transmission of information and your entire perspective
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  of the world changes like it can't be unseen
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  it can't be unexperienced that data comes in
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  and it's like your whole framework needs to change
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  now you know oh so like off that how has your
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  understanding of nature as a whole to some degree
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  changed from like pre plant medicines slash ayahuasca
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  to now where you are and then in particular like
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  the process of dieta if you want to like jump
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  into that yeah well man nature is this like it's
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  this word that gets used a lot and i would say
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  it's actually misused A lot of the time it's
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  used to refer to, especially like as a kid, for
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  me and a lot of the media that I would see in
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  like games and TV shows and movies and books
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  even, you know, nature is used to refer to going
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  out into a forest or the jungle and there's like
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  plants and bugs and like wind and sometimes you
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  could use nature to refer to like the waves or...
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  a dramatic landscape or, you know, and for me
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  in my head, I was like, nature is just plants
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  and, and like, you know, things that I've been
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  told is alive, but like, isn't necessarily like
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  me, you know? Um, and it's, it's not necessarily
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  wrong and it's not necessarily a mislabel, but
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  it's, it's. It's not as accurate as you can really
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  get. While those things are all part of nature,
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  nature for me and the way I view this concept
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  is it is more... It is as if its creation and
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  its source is untampered with. That's probably
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  closer to how... I would define or I view what
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  the spirit of nature really is. So anything that
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  is automatically propagating and growing from
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  just, you could say God, but a pure source. And
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  it's when those sources start to be tampered
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  with by other entities. They come in and they
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  take something that is perfect. or maybe not
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  perfect. Perfect is not the right word, but pure.
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  And then they add their energy and their perspective
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  and their view to that thing and shape it for
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  their own desires. For example, a stonesmith.
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  Now you can have this perfectly natural rock
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  face. It's just done that. No one chose that
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  thing. It's just fallen and crumbled away in
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  a certain way. And you look at it and it has
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  this signature to it, this energy characteristic
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  to it. And it's beautiful. And you look at it
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  and you know that that is like, wow, that is
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  pure nature. And then someone can come along
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  and take one of the boulders and start to shape
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  it and carve it and make a statue out of it.
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  And that is potentially equally as beautiful,
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  you know, if not more, you know, an artist can
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  place their vision and their spirit and encode
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  it into a natural medium, you know. bring out
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  their own spirit in it but it has been removed
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  from its natural state so i that's that's kind
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  of how i would describe nature um just curious
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  if you have anything to add to that yeah i mean
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  like at least for like the transition for me
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  as like a extremely rational scientist atheist
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  to the the person i am today you know like nature
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  to some degree was just like a backdrop you know
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  like it was just around and like now it's it's
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  actually reality you know and like nature in
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  itself is connected to everything else whereas
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  like when we take like the artificial matrix
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  of a city you know It isn't like everything is
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  communicating. It's almost like a dead zone.
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  And you see this like when you grow wheat in
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  like a monoculture. If you grow it in a monoculture,
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  there is all, and especially if it's GMO, there's
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  virtually zero communication that happens between
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  the thing, the wheat inside the monoculture and
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  the nature surrounding it. Whereas when you grow
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  things. permaculture style everything is feeding
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  off the system you know and like when you plan
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  out a permaculture farm it takes seven years
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  to reach maturity because like you'll plant vegetables
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  in the ground and then bugs will come and then
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  the bugs that eat the bugs come and then because
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  the bigger bugs are there then the birds come
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  or the rodents come and then because they're
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  there the eagles come and the predators come
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  you know and it's actually like a chain of events
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  that unfolds you know like everything is in relation
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  and like communicating with each other at all
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  times and this i'm not i'm not like a massive
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  like oneness person you know but it's like that
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  is that actually is reality you know and this
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  weird gmo monoculture that we like live in as
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  a city is basically like an entirely different
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  parallel system to some degree push oh there's
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  a huge separation between well one is like the
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  imposition of a mind onto an environment trying
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  to take something to a new place out of a desire
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  that is formed from a perceived lack So we look
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  at nature and there's something about it that
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  seems insufficient to us, to our mind. And the
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  mind then says, okay, this needs to be shaped
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  to be better, to be something different than
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  what it has been forever. And that's when we
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  start to use concrete to impose structure and
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  to impose form and cover soil that is ultimately
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  what we all need. We need fertile soil to live
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  and to eat. And so we can take things and forget
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  because our minds are amazing, but fallible and
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  far from all knowing. And so it's very, very
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  easy to allow the mind to make choices that are
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  only concerning a separated, a smaller picture
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  without considering the larger system as a whole.
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  Like you said, everything. to an extent he's
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  connected you know and um and like now i go outside
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  and i see a tree and like i know it's it sees
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  me you know what i mean it like feels my presence
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  and there actually is a communication coming
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  back if you have the right like methodology of
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  like the communication with plants and like an
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  example right now is like we're both smoking
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  mapacho for this conversation and it's like okay
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  what is mapacho firstly it's like not weed you
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  know and it's a it's a type of tobacco but it's
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  like a tobacco nicotina rustica that comes from
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  the amazon you know and like we we buy this from
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  the natives down in peru and it's grown like
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  permaculture style like they don't have pesticides
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  and herbicides for all of these things and then
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  it's like cured naturally as well Right. And
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  then when we look at like tobacco in the modern
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  world, it's like full of chemicals. It's GMO.
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  It's like the spirit is completely taken out
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  of it. But like Mopacho, it is a bridge, you
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  know, like you smoke Mopacho and it carries your
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  prayers. It helps you connect to the plant spirits.
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  It's the thing that you donate. Like if you go
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  out and you wild harvest something, there's always
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  a relationship there. You don't just go out and
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  just like completely destroy a plan and strip
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  everything off it. Like it's a living being.
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  Like you go and take what you need and you give
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  it tobacco. You know, like it's alive. It's responding.
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  Absolutely. And I think that's something that's
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  like dramatically been lost in the way that we
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  live our lives now. And that's also something
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  that really drew me to ayahuasca in the beginning
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  where I was listening. to people talking about
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  ayahuasca and they would ask like the indigenous
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  like how did you work this out and they were
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  like the plants told us and from my little atheist
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  perspective i was like this doesn't make any
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  sense you know and now it's like well that's
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  obviously the solution oh 100 i mean like when
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  when you look at a plant and you can for example
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  coffee It's an example that I like to use when
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  I'm speaking to people that don't have a very
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  deep understanding of the variety of plant spirits
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  that there are out there to connect with. Everyone
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  really, to an extent, understands coffee. It's
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  very, very, especially in the West, it's widely
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  used. And I would also kind of... Label it as
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  misuse to an extent. But everyone has some understanding
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  of coffee. When you sit with it, you create a
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  brew. And there are different ways to create
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  the brew. And every time you make a change to
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  that brewing process, there's a difference in
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  the outcome of the creation that's made. Sitting
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  and drinking that brew, connecting with it. Some
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  people have very, very strong experiences with
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  that. There is some form of exchange, an information
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  exchange. Some people will say it energizes them.
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  Some people will say that it awakens, makes them
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  more aware. Some people say it clears their mind.
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  Some people say it makes them paranoid. And I
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  would suggest that in a way that one human might
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  have differing effects on differing. That same
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  spirit, that coffee has a different effect on
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  different people. And then you can look and say,
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  oh, well, it's based on their body type and the
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  chemical receptors in their brain and their gut
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  biome and all these things. And you can do the
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  same thing with humans. You can say, oh, this
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  kind of personality type matches with that personality
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  type and might create frustration, whereas these
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  people might get along. You can break those down
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  and create. material explanations for for the
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  the outcomes that a meeting of two spirits create
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  but ultimately it is two spirits meeting creating
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  a unique conversation is how i would describe
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  that an interaction uh information being shared
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  either way yeah i kind of strayed a little bit
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  there yeah but like yeah but like i think what
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  you're getting at here is once you the your understanding
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  of nature expands to what i would say is a truer
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  reality which you can only really get through
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  direct experience to some degree you do begin
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  to realize that your relationship with the plants
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  is no different than with a person exactly no
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  and like we look at tobacco for example and people
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  are like oh if you smoke tobacco you get lung
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  cancer right and it's like okay like What if
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  we expand out and we look at our relationship
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  to a spirit as if it was a person? Okay. Is the
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  tobacco that you get come from a good place with
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  good energy? Was it grown in an environment that
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  it wants to be? And was it treated with respect
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  throughout the process before it even got to
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  you? And then once it gets to you, do you abuse
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  it? Is it a friend? people are like oh i need
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  to quit you know like this thing is bad and they
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  have this like weird parasitic energy in this
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  relationship you know and if you like abuse a
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  person for 50 years at some point they're going
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  to be like you need a fucking backup you know
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  and the plants are no different But if you like
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  treat it with respect and like in its sacred
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  nature and like you make offerings and like you
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  have a really balanced relationship with it.
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  And that also includes you taking time away and
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  observing your relationship with these things.
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  You know, like we also need perspective, the
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  same in relationships with people. Like that's
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  how you keep everything in good relations. Absolutely.
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  I mean, we need to learn. We need to learn. about
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  other beings that's and i i guess that would
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  you could use that to um to kind of define what
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  like a good relationship is is like a relationship
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  where you understand the other being what they
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  like what they don't like how they want to be
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  respected how they want to be spoken to how they
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  want to be held and um how often they want to
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  connect with you all of these things are very
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  very important and i i really like kind of um
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  how you broke brought up the the idea of like
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  mistreating a person for 50 years you know and
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  i i you could very very easily just call that
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  a toxic relationship you know you're um in relationship
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  with someone and consistently not meeting them
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  the way that they wish to be met and that is
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  not beneficial for anyone any of the parties
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  no one receives uh some some you might be like
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  potentially like parasitizing and and trying
• 18:57
  to extract from that person but on another level
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  there is a part of you that is also being hurt
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  as well from the the harming of another being
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  and it goes the same way with mapacho if you
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  are overly using it you're meeting it too often
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  or you're using it out of habit you're using
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  it unconsciously you are connecting with it to
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  find a sense of safety or familiarity, all of
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  these things, we can treat humans the exact same
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  way or food or TV shows or partying and all of
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  these things, our relationship with that specific,
• 19:37
  you could use the word concept or idea, but I
• 19:43
  like to use the word spirit, the spirit of a
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  specific entity, you know? um we we can learn
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  how to interact with them in a way that they
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  want to be interacted with in a way that we wish
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  to interact with them and that's the relationship
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  that we develop and i think there's something
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  here as well about like how in the current modern
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  world that we have we have access to everything
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  like all these medicines all these plants But
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  we have none of the people who hold the wisdom
• 20:17
  around how to use them correctly, you know, or
• 20:20
  like at least very few. So like as an example,
• 20:23
  I've lived in a house where, and to some degree,
• 20:29
  so the bigger the spirit, the bigger the consequences
• 20:32
  are for misusing it as well, right? Yeah. when
• 20:38
  we're talking about what ends up as a cigarette
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  of like these insanely processed chemical ridden
• 20:44
  like forms of tobacco right like the spirit is
• 20:48
  basically gone at that point the thing with mapacho
• 20:50
  is like this spirit is here and like if you cross
• 20:53
  the spirit like you will get feedback almost
• 20:56
  immediately like i've been with people who had
• 21:00
  smoked weed You know, and then 20 minutes later
• 21:04
  smoked a Mopacho and within 10 minutes, they're
• 21:07
  on all fours in the front yard puking. You know,
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  like, and that's, that's the spirit being like,
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  you mistreated this situation, this relationship.
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  And then like, we talk about ayahuasca and it's
• 21:21
  like, the ceremony for ayahuasca is so sacred.
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  You know, no one's taken ayahuasca and go into
• 21:29
  a music festival. And if you are, I'm sure there
• 21:33
  is some crazy feedback that you're getting very
• 21:36
  quickly around that, you know? And we talk about
• 21:39
  cannabis as well. And it's like, where does this
• 21:43
  thing originate? Right. It doesn't originate
• 21:46
  in someone's basement in the suburbs. Right.
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  It actually originates in like the middle central
• 21:52
  Asia. It's like, it's a Chinese. You know, like.
• 21:58
  I'm sure there's probably someone out there who's
• 22:01
  connected to a bloodline lineage of how to use
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  this thing correctly and ceremonially. And then
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  we come to the West and everyone's just abusing
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  it. And then what it ends up becoming is this
• 22:15
  spirit of the temptress. It's the thing that
• 22:19
  offers you everything and gives you nothing in
• 22:21
  return. You have all these great ideas, but you
• 22:23
  never act on any of it. you know and like at
• 22:26
  that point the spirit has just like captured
• 22:28
  you absolutely absolutely and i honestly i like
• 22:33
  the um the idea that you mentioned like mixing
• 22:36
  the two different spirits it's almost like you're
• 22:38
  you know you're kind of like married to one and
• 22:41
  you're sleeping with another to an extent you're
• 22:43
  like crossing them you know um a lot of these
• 22:47
  big spirits they uh they can be possessive you
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  know um they don't really like to be shared.
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  And this is, when I say shared, they don't like
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  to share the relationship. And these are one
• 23:03
  of the things that I noticed about marijuana
• 23:05
  is it starts to kick out a lot of things from
• 23:09
  your experience, especially when you surround
• 23:12
  yourself with it. And it really, really digs
• 23:14
  itself into your life. At least speaking from
• 23:18
  my own experience. past use i no longer ah i
• 23:21
  will smoke sometimes you know but it's not something
• 23:24
  that i ever look for you know if i was ever offered
• 23:27
  potentially but it's not that's where my relationship
• 23:29
  is with that that spirit at the moment it used
• 23:32
  to be a lot more frequent and um there was a
• 23:35
  point where i was learning from it. And then
• 23:39
  there was a point where it was very, very clearly
• 23:41
  no longer serving me or her. And it was almost
• 23:45
  like I was forcing a connection, forcing it,
• 23:48
  like beating a dead horse, almost like staying
• 23:50
  in a relationship with a partner when you both
• 23:53
  know that neither of you guys want to be in that
• 23:55
  relationship anymore. And there was harm. There
• 23:59
  was a level of harm caused, you know, at least
• 24:02
  from my end. I can't speak on her behalf. And
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  I could see it. And there was a point where I
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  was like, no longer, this is no longer happening.
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  And since then, my relationship has moved. My
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  relationship with that spirit has moved into
• 24:16
  a place which I'm far more comfortable with,
• 24:18
  you know? And yeah, same thing goes with the
• 24:22
  human people. These similar patterns is the way
• 24:27
  I would say it. Okay, so the process of La Dieta.
• 24:35
  is very different than drinking ayahuasca see
• 24:39
  uh ayahuasca is kind of the centerpiece to this
• 24:43
  like entire medical system that the indigenous
• 24:47
  have uh down in the jungle but they use a lot
• 24:52
  of different plants for healing and one of the
• 24:57
  things of understanding these relationships with
• 25:01
  the spirit versus compounds right is there's
• 25:08
  definitely a transmission of information that
• 25:10
  can take place but it doesn't happen at a psychoactive
• 25:15
  level you know like you drink coffee and you
• 25:18
  have this psychoactive effect you know of like
• 25:22
  oh i feel more awake or focused you know i think
• 25:25
  to some degree it's actually just you feel less
• 25:27
  sleepy that's actually the mechanism to some
• 25:30
  degree that's taking place but there's like real
• 25:33
  medicine in a lot of plants that isn't as clear
• 25:37
  you know like one of the plants that i dieted
• 25:40
  it like cleans neuroses right and it's like only
• 25:47
  through the the spiritual transmission and connection
• 25:50
  does that really start to make sense so i'm just
• 25:55
  curious like other than the restrictions itself
• 26:01
  of you know also no no salt no sugar no sex no
• 26:05
  red meat no fermented foods no spices all of
• 26:07
  this right like what have you found that you've
• 26:11
  learned through the process of dieta just in
• 26:15
  itself and then also on top of that like how
• 26:20
  the plants have shared unique wisdom depending
• 26:24
  on their personal characteristics well to answer
• 26:30
  the first part I mean, multifold. The experiences,
• 26:36
  there are many. But the biggest one was the learning
• 26:42
  of the value of simplicity and how simplifying
• 26:47
  and cleaning is actually the ultimate goal for
• 26:53
  us. It's how we reach our truest form. And it's
• 27:01
  actually through the complications and through
• 27:04
  the mixing and the presence of multiple ingredients,
• 27:10
  too many ingredients in one place where we lose
• 27:14
  ourselves, our true selves. And in terms of the
• 27:22
  restrictions of the diet, it's very, very easy
• 27:27
  to look at this practice and label. them as restrictions
• 27:31
  um especially when you are coming from a western
• 27:36
  lifestyle where we have since the beginning of
• 27:40
  our existence have had access to everything under
• 27:47
  the sun any any form of food every ingredient
• 27:51
  every plant every movie every you know every
• 27:54
  activity or it's all available to us from the
• 27:58
  beginning And so there is never a point where
• 28:03
  we are coming into contact with new things as
• 28:08
  a clean slate, if that's making any sense. Whereas
• 28:14
  I would say that if you had, for example, an
• 28:16
  indigenous life, you start with the bare minimums
• 28:20
  necessary for life and then meet element by element,
• 28:24
  you know, and get to integrate them in isolation.
• 28:29
  into your experience and through that isolation
• 28:32
  you can really get a grasp for what is happening
• 28:39
  to you when it enters your field but if you are
• 28:44
  doing that where you already have so many different
• 28:47
  things in your field of experience it's very
• 28:51
  very very difficult to identify what is doing
• 28:55
  what you know and people and what this at least
• 28:58
  was manifesting in me, is I would just have this
• 29:00
  general sense of anxiety. And I had no idea why.
• 29:07
  I didn't know what was causing it. Because there
• 29:10
  was just so many things present. It could have
• 29:13
  been any one of those things. It could have been
• 29:16
  the video games. It could have been the, you
• 29:18
  know, I'm not going to dive too much into my
• 29:21
  personal life back then, because it's not something
• 29:23
  that I think is appropriate for this conversation.
• 29:26
  We all understand that we have multiple vices
• 29:29
  in our lives, you know, and when they're all
• 29:33
  happening at the same time, we can't identify
• 29:35
  what they are doing to us. And so this reframe
• 29:38
  of the inverse of like, we start with everything
• 29:42
  and then take away and therefore it's a restriction.
• 29:45
  It's actually, I think it doesn't really do it
• 29:49
  justice. I think it's better to look at the fact
• 29:51
  that we've already added all these things to
• 29:53
  our experience and we are... The diet is actually
• 29:57
  a remembering and a returning to an original
• 30:00
  state that we have always been. And then reintroducing
• 30:05
  things bit by bit and testing. And it is almost
• 30:08
  scientific. If that's how you want to approach
• 30:10
  it, that's how it was for me. It was like I would
• 30:14
  only eat in a day. It would be plantains, eggs,
• 30:20
  avocado, and then potato, sweet potato, and either
• 30:24
  chicken or fish. Now, and I mean that that's
• 30:27
  it, like no salts, no spices, like nothing, nothing.
• 30:32
  We're talking five to eight ingredients in your
• 30:36
  daily life, you know, whereas you go to like
• 30:39
  one Chinese restaurant and you're having like
• 30:41
  20 ingredients in one meal. And it's like, bang,
• 30:44
  you just have introduced all these things and
• 30:47
  you have maybe an allergic reaction or some kind
• 30:49
  of reaction. And it is impossible to identify
• 30:52
  which of those 20 ingredients did it to you.
• 30:55
  But as soon as I was, I only had like eight things
• 30:58
  my whole day. And then I would have like a piece
• 31:02
  of pineapple. And then all of a sudden I would
• 31:05
  start feeling like, oh, there was a reaction.
• 31:07
  I was like, okay, the pineapple definitely did
• 31:11
  that because I've been having the exact same
• 31:13
  thing for weeks straight. And the only new thing
• 31:16
  that's entered my experience is this one new
• 31:19
  element. it has to be that and as soon as you
• 31:22
  can do that that's when you can do your ab testing
• 31:25
  you can be like this thing is serving this thing
• 31:27
  is not serving me this thing is serving me this
• 31:29
  thing and all of a sudden you now have clarity
• 31:31
  you have clarity on what is causing what in your
• 31:35
  experience and then once you have the clarity
• 31:37
  and it means you know if you repeat that mistake
• 31:43
  that's on you that's fully you are fully accountable
• 31:46
  for like oh man every time i have that pineapple
• 31:48
  i feel a little bit queasy but it just tastes
• 31:51
  so good i'm gonna keep doing it that's that's
• 31:53
  on you then it's like you can't blame anyone
• 31:55
  else you know yeah that's been i think that's
• 31:59
  like just in general like with health these days
• 32:02
  is everyone's looking for like the next thing
• 32:07
  the next supplement the next practice it's like
• 32:11
  i wake up i have i have my electrolytes and my
• 32:15
  coffee and i like all these supplements and then
• 32:17
  i go and do my work like nine to five crunch
• 32:20
  it out all day then i like treat myself really
• 32:23
  good so then i go and do like sauna and ice bath
• 32:26
  and yoga after work and it's like a lot of the
• 32:30
  time like what actually like the people need
• 32:33
  the most is just nothing it's like when was the
• 32:38
  last time you just like sat at home in the dark
• 32:41
  for an hour and i'm not talking like you gotta
• 32:44
  sit there in like lotus meditation but it's like
• 32:47
  just sit there with nothing to do like we're
• 32:51
  all filling our like every second of the day
• 32:55
  and like even if you fill it with things that
• 32:58
  are healthy right it's like you still don't know
• 33:03
  if they're healthy Like how many people are out
• 33:07
  there who are cold plunging, who are adrenals
• 33:10
  are fucked and it's just making them so much
• 33:12
  worse, but it's like a bandaid solution on the
• 33:16
  anxiety they feel. But then the very next day,
• 33:19
  all the anxiety is back. A hundred percent. You
• 33:22
  know, they're also not you. Those things are
• 33:25
  external elements, you know? So they, they might
• 33:29
  even be healthy, but like, what is it? What is
• 33:32
  it like to be you? What is it like to not have
• 33:35
  anything present and just be yourself in the
• 33:38
  moment? These are very important things that
• 33:41
  the diet teaches, you know? For sure. And that
• 33:43
  was a massive piece. Like I got out of my last
• 33:45
  diet where I was like, okay, like I'm eating
• 33:48
  like perfect. You know what I mean? I'm like
• 33:52
  doing everything perfect in like the, in the
• 33:56
  restriction side of things or the simplification
• 33:58
  side of things. But it was like no like you need
• 34:03
  to be more peaceful you know like i was still
• 34:07
  doing the dieta but i was like still working
• 34:09
  all the time and like trying to get shit done
• 34:11
  and like make things happen in my life and like
• 34:14
  not that those things are wrong but it's like
• 34:16
  they weren't created from a place of peace you
• 34:21
  know like peace comes first it's like you have
• 34:25
  peace and then you act you know like you can't
• 34:29
  Try to find peace through the action. Absolutely.
• 34:35
  Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, such a, such a big
• 34:39
  part of this, this journey, at least for me is
• 34:41
  this, this endeavor to like know thyself, you
• 34:46
  know, to, to really witness and to turn my attention
• 34:49
  and my awareness inwards and to see, understand
• 34:54
  and develop my relationship with myself. And
• 34:59
  yeah, it's one of the earlier steps, I would
• 35:05
  say, in this process of mastery. This process
• 35:10
  of our evolution is to be able to be authentically,
• 35:15
  to authentically express, you need to be authentic.
• 35:19
  You need to be true. that process of becoming
• 35:23
  true i i would say is to identify what is actually
• 35:27
  not you what is not truly you what is not true
• 35:31
  you know um and not necessarily eliminating those
• 35:35
  from your experience but being aware that this
• 35:40
  thing is not me and this thing is me you know
• 35:42
  and then have with that awareness that's when
• 35:45
  the um that's when first of all you realize there's
• 35:49
  a relationship You're no longer identifying with
• 35:53
  an identity. You no longer identify as the musician
• 36:01
  or the runner or the bricklayer. It's like now
• 36:07
  there's the you and then there is the bricklayer.
• 36:11
  And then you have this relationship with each
• 36:13
  of these entities and identities. And from there
• 36:19
  you can... establish a relationship with it and
• 36:22
  see where is this relationship toxic where is
• 36:24
  this relationship um creative you know co -creative
• 36:27
  you know super interesting super super interesting
• 36:31
  yeah for sure and it's okay so just kind of get
• 36:36
  looped back to where i was kind of going with
• 36:38
  this is there's like the teachings from the restrictions
• 36:41
  itself you know And then there's like the teachings
• 36:45
  from the actual plants that we're working with.
• 36:49
  Now, I don't want you to like out your plants
• 36:52
  because like it's kind of something sacred that's
• 36:55
  not meant to be like, you know, in the public
• 36:57
  eye. But just in terms of like if you were to
• 37:00
  explain maybe the differences or just like how
• 37:06
  it isn't just the restrictions that are changing.
• 37:10
  the way that you perceive reality and the way
• 37:13
  that you're learning it's also like the plant's
• 37:15
  unique qualities in themselves is there any way
• 37:18
  that you could like expand on that okay well
• 37:21
  yes one the obvious one that comes to mind was
• 37:24
  the first plant that i well it wasn't actually
• 37:27
  the first plant that i died with but it was the
• 37:29
  first plant that i had a long -term diet with
• 37:32
  um and at first I honestly when I entered I had
• 37:37
  like no idea I was told certain things like this
• 37:40
  thing does this and this thing does that and
• 37:41
  this thing does that and I was like oh that one
• 37:43
  sounds pretty cool but ultimately it was my maestro
• 37:45
  that selected one for me he said if there's going
• 37:48
  to be any plant that you're going to be dieting
• 37:49
  it should be this one and I didn't realize at
• 37:52
  the time how important it was and how correct
• 37:56
  he was about that you know I was just like oh
• 37:59
  you know the rational mind was like, Oh, he's
• 38:01
  just like picking one of three starter Pokemon
• 38:03
  for me, you know, it's just whatever. But the
• 38:06
  reality was, uh, it was exactly what I needed
• 38:09
  at that point in time. He had already identified
• 38:12
  the area in my experience that was most, uh,
• 38:17
  most in need for development and growth. And
• 38:20
  you could say prescribed a, um, a relationship
• 38:26
  that would, uh, very, very rapidly address that.
• 38:31
  And so what I, from my experience and my rational,
• 38:34
  rationalization of that, that, that action and
• 38:40
  that, that transformation that occurred in me
• 38:42
  was my disconnection and my severance, my separation
• 38:46
  from my sensory and, and intuitive bodies to
• 38:52
  my mind. I was very, very deeply trapped in my
• 39:00
  My mind's tendency to understand, want to create
• 39:06
  objective understandings of things, to create
• 39:08
  a sense of safety. I couldn't feel safe unless
• 39:12
  I could rationally explain something. And if
• 39:18
  there was ever a situation where someone was
• 39:20
  like, oh, what is this? If I could not create
• 39:23
  a rational sentence that would convince them
• 39:26
  that I understood what... the reality was about
• 39:30
  that thing that they asked, there was something
• 39:32
  in me that would just, it would just tense up
• 39:36
  and recoil. So there was this sense of safety
• 39:39
  that I was, I had built around my ability to
• 39:42
  understand and explain things. Now, this one
• 39:45
  plant was very, very gentle with me and it saw
• 39:49
  that and was very patient. And it essentially
• 39:51
  taught me that, first of all, that is an illusion.
• 39:56
  The mind is not, capable of doing that for this
• 40:02
  whole realm. It is an impossible task. It is
• 40:05
  beyond the capabilities of a human mind to do
• 40:09
  so. We can become masters of specific realms,
• 40:12
  but not the entire thing. So that was the first
• 40:14
  thing that it showed me. And the second thing
• 40:16
  was that it connected me to a truth higher than
• 40:19
  the truth that I was creating within my mind.
• 40:23
  It connected me with the truth of my spirit.
• 40:27
  And the information that was trying to be received
• 40:32
  was trying to be sent to me, to my mind, to my
• 40:37
  identity, my human, from my higher spirit. And
• 40:41
  it was almost as if there is like some fiber
• 40:45
  optics cable between the two. And that's how
• 40:47
  it's meant to be connected. And at some point,
• 40:49
  there was a severance, a separation, a damage
• 40:54
  in that. connection and the information was not
• 40:58
  getting in for whatever reason and essentially
• 41:00
  this plant repaired that connection to an extent
• 41:04
  it did as much as it could with the the the work
• 41:07
  that i did um and there's plenty more to go to
• 41:11
  to be and this is after almost a year on this
• 41:13
  diet um it just goes to show how much work there
• 41:16
  is to be done in our experience um but it essentially
• 41:20
  Began to reconnect me to my, my intuition and
• 41:23
  the information that was the divine information
• 41:25
  that was meant to be reaching me. And yeah, hopefully
• 41:30
  that's enough for this, this, this format. It's
• 41:35
  a bit tricky to explain unless we're in like
• 41:38
  a conversation, you know, they're very difficult
• 41:42
  things to put into words. Yeah. And it's the
• 41:46
  same way. Like when we look at the plants, like
• 41:49
  we can look at people. you know as well like
• 41:52
  everyone is like a master at something to some
• 41:54
  degree you know it's like oh this person is the
• 41:58
  master carpenter this person is the master marketer
• 42:02
  you know and how the plants work is like they've
• 42:06
  just acquired knowledge throughout their lifespans
• 42:09
  you know and they have like a mother consciousness
• 42:13
  you know the same way that like we have a consciousness
• 42:17
  And they may be the masters of certain realms,
• 42:20
  you know, and masters of certain things. Like
• 42:23
  some plants, plant spirits, like they can repair
• 42:28
  like fertility, you know, or like sexual energy,
• 42:31
  you know. Other ones, they work on the heart,
• 42:35
  both physically and like emotionally. Like can
• 42:39
  you find like that love, you know. Other ones
• 42:41
  work on the mind, like help you find that peace.
• 42:44
  So there's like the process of dieta is like
• 42:47
  the thing that makes you raw. When there's nothing
• 42:51
  to grab onto and nothing to diffuse the energy
• 42:54
  that builds up inside of you, you're like present
• 42:58
  for it. And then it's almost like these different
• 43:00
  plants, they kind of like take that rawness and
• 43:03
  they focus it into their place of mastery. Be
• 43:06
  it they like open the mind or they open the heart.
• 43:09
  So I love that you brought up Pokemon as well.
• 43:14
  you know just because it's such a funny metaphor
• 43:17
  for this whole process where when i was a kid
• 43:20
  pokemon was just like i was obsessed you know
• 43:25
  the idea of like having these cool like allies
• 43:30
  that i like went through life with it was like
• 43:33
  my only dream in life was that pokemon was real
• 43:35
  you know and then i'm like 23 years old and i
• 43:41
  opened my first dieta and then i realized like
• 43:44
  oh that actually like is real like you can go
• 43:47
  through this life and you can like build up your
• 43:50
  like spiritual allies by doing these dietas and
• 43:55
  they're all masters in different realms and it's
• 43:57
  like oh you go and kind of get your fire type
• 43:59
  and you go and get your water type you know and
• 44:02
  it like makes you like a more full person you
• 44:06
  know and like balances out all those energies
• 44:07
  but they're also like protection you know like
• 44:11
  in life i feel i feel these plants that i've
• 44:13
  died protecting me and then also paving the way
• 44:16
  for me forward so i think one thing that people
• 44:24
  may not understand is that this process of dieta
• 44:29
  it's not a joke like this is this is a serious
• 44:36
  thing to undertake and you have to be a serious
• 44:39
  person to undertake it. And you also have to
• 44:42
  be like really willing to look at your shit.
• 44:46
  And I think to some degree, that's the difference
• 44:48
  between ayahuasca and dieta is like, ayahuasca
• 44:52
  is hard and like, she'll make you look at your
• 44:55
  shit, but it's for three days, you know? Whereas
• 44:59
  like, if you open a dieta, we're talking. months
• 45:04
  to years right of all these like restrictions
• 45:10
  and all this simplicity and all this energy builds
• 45:12
  up and like to hold that amount of energy like
• 45:15
  to like not ejaculate for a year right like that's
• 45:20
  that's energy there's there's forza there you
• 45:24
  know so i'm curious like From your perspective,
• 45:33
  like, is dieta something to be taken lightly?
• 45:37
  I mean, look, from my perspective, absolutely
• 45:44
  not. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's
• 45:49
  an objective ultimate truth about this world.
• 45:51
  But the reality is, is dieta is very close to
• 45:56
  the word diet. And a lot of the times the word
• 45:59
  diet is used colloquially. But when you use the
• 46:05
  word diet, people associate that with this idea
• 46:09
  that I am just selecting specific foods that
• 46:14
  I'm going to be eating and foods that I will
• 46:16
  no longer eat for X amount of time. And while
• 46:23
  that's part of dieta, it is like 10 % of what...
• 46:31
  you are actually focusing on. Dieta is quite
• 46:35
  literally your entire experience. And when you
• 46:40
  are in this dieta, it's like every single aspect
• 46:43
  is trying to show you where it's at and where
• 46:50
  it needs to be cleaned and where it needs work,
• 46:52
  you know? And, you know, some people... might
• 46:59
  have a very aloof nonchalant approach to to their
• 47:04
  process and their their evolution and their journey
• 47:09
  in this life and maybe it suits them you know
• 47:14
  or maybe it's just a temporary period um in their
• 47:18
  in their you know lifelong experience and transformation
• 47:23
  they need to go through that so there's i would
• 47:25
  not say there's something fundamentally wrong
• 47:28
  about holding that attitude but as far as i'm
• 47:33
  concerned we are dealing with like reality yeah
• 47:39
  we are dealing with our like real life our experience
• 47:44
  how like we're dealing with the essence of what
• 47:48
  we value like how happy i am how successful i
• 47:53
  am how creative i am how much i grow you know
• 47:57
  These things are like at our core. So we are
• 48:01
  like, and the outcomes reflect the attitude that
• 48:09
  we bring to them. And so if you enter this kind
• 48:12
  of work and you are not, you're not really willing
• 48:17
  to give it your all, you're going to get a proportionate.
• 48:21
  kind of outcome and if you're there and you're
• 48:24
  like you know what like they told me not to use
• 48:27
  salt but like i don't really like pasta without
• 48:30
  salt so i'm just going to put like a little bit
• 48:31
  in the in the water because it just tastes a
• 48:33
  little bit better and hopefully like the plants
• 48:35
  won't mind and you know if that's the kind of
• 48:38
  like attitude that you bring like that's the
• 48:39
  kind of that's just going to be reflected right
• 48:41
  back at you like what i just shared about repairing
• 48:45
  my connection to my higher self like imagine
• 48:49
  a surgeon had that imagine the spirit surgeon
• 48:54
  was coming in to literally operate on your spirit
• 48:57
  and was like yeah it probably doesn't matter
• 48:59
  if i don't do this right i don't sew this thing
• 49:01
  in properly they'll be fine like that that's
• 49:03
  that's literally like what you bring to this
• 49:07
  is what you receive and if you are half -assing
• 49:09
  it you're gonna get a half -assed job you know
• 49:12
  you you get what you pay for you know oh yeah
• 49:15
  i love that metaphor of like uh the surgeon working
• 49:19
  on you because like these plants they are surgeons
• 49:21
  you know in in the greatest multi -dimensional
• 49:25
  sense and that idea of like if you half -arse
• 49:29
  your relationship with it it just half -arses
• 49:32
  the surgery you know but then it can even go
• 49:35
  the other way where there's like yeah there's
• 49:38
  like the you add a little bit of salt to your
• 49:40
  pasta water or whatever but then there's also
• 49:43
  that you eat pork and you just cross the diet
• 49:46
  like that surgeon is not only gonna not repair
• 49:50
  you it's gonna take your kidney in the process
• 49:53
  it's pissed man it's pissed it's not happy yeah
• 49:58
  yeah yeah like down in the jungle like the natives
• 50:01
  they like they say no as broma it's like this
• 50:03
  is not a joke you know yeah it's it's very but
• 50:08
  to some degree like One of the indigenous down
• 50:12
  there, one of our teachers, he was sort of giving
• 50:14
  us like a seminar and he was saying that like
• 50:15
  this is the path of apprenticeship, right? Like
• 50:18
  you will always make mistakes and learn and make
• 50:21
  mistakes and learn and make mistakes and learn.
• 50:23
  This is just what it is to work with these medicines
• 50:25
  in general, you know? And like when you do the
• 50:29
  diets. not to like scare anyone because like
• 50:32
  there is serious consequences but also to get
• 50:35
  to the point where there's serious consequences
• 50:37
  you actually need to build up enough energy that
• 50:40
  like if it if it turns on you then it's a problem
• 50:43
  whereas there's lots of people that go out there
• 50:46
  and they open a diet and they just keep cheating
• 50:48
  the whole way through and it's like there's not
• 50:50
  even any energy there like they've just pissed
• 50:52
  off this spirit that now needs to be repaired
• 50:55
  you know and they're going to be out there praying
• 50:57
  for compassion but it's like if you actually
• 51:01
  go a long way on this path, like the consequences
• 51:05
  of not walking the path correctly only increase
• 51:11
  over time, you know, to the point where people
• 51:13
  cross a diet and they die. Depending on the size
• 51:17
  of the spirit, like you mentioned earlier on
• 51:18
  in the podcast. yeah and like no one's going
• 51:22
  to give you no i mean i hope no maestro out there
• 51:26
  would give you a diet like that on your first
• 51:28
  one because like everyone learns you know like
• 51:31
  for every day i'm on diet i get better at dieting
• 51:35
  that's just what it is okay so switching gears
• 51:41
  a little bit so one thing that comes up a lot
• 51:45
  in ayahuasca ceremonies is The exploration of
• 51:51
  polarity. So I'm curious how your understanding
• 51:59
  of like good and evil and light and dark has
• 52:06
  changed from walking this path. Well, these are
• 52:17
  like. very the the deep concepts you know they're
• 52:24
  like um everyone has their relationship with
• 52:31
  this concept of like good bad light dark they're
• 52:38
  like and over our lives they um they evolve but
• 52:43
  i remember being a kid you know and just like
• 52:45
  watching it cartoon show and they're talking
• 52:48
  about the light and the dark and it's like kids
• 52:50
  know that intuitively like they understand what
• 52:53
  that is and we we all have like this deep deep
• 52:58
  awareness you know even from a very young age
• 53:03
  they're the core concepts um and um yeah it's
• 53:10
  it it changes that i've had many Many evolutions,
• 53:15
  many steps and many, you know, iterations on
• 53:19
  my perspective, especially like coming from a
• 53:21
  mind that wants to rationalize things and wants
• 53:23
  to be able to like, again, explain and share
• 53:25
  information. Light and dark, the way I view it
• 53:32
  now, I won't go into all my past thoughts, you
• 53:37
  know, because we'll just be here forever. But
• 53:38
  where I, the way I view it now. There is a source
• 53:45
  of creation, a source that drives the evolution
• 53:54
  of reality. And that is the light. That is what
• 54:03
  is the origin of everything that exists in this
• 54:08
  realm and all realms. And the dark is this entity,
• 54:21
  this energy of not willing to acknowledge that
• 54:27
  light. It is an absence of that light. And what
• 54:32
  that means is when that source of growth and
• 54:38
  goodness and existence is absent, it... you automatically
• 54:43
  start to decay. You enter this state of decomposition
• 54:47
  because the foundations of existence is now no
• 54:53
  longer present. In order to continue to exist
• 54:57
  in that state, you need to then harvest that
• 55:02
  energy, that creation, that force from something
• 55:08
  else. And ultimately... I would say it is this
• 55:13
  awareness and this understanding and this acceptance
• 55:17
  and this love of the force that is creating.
• 55:21
  It requires a level of humility. It's a deeply
• 55:30
  humbling. It's a deeply humbling awareness to
• 55:35
  know that there is a higher something beyond
• 55:39
  you. That is, it is, it is very hard to put into
• 55:45
  words, you know, and, and that, that, that refusal
• 55:48
  to, to sit in that humility creates this like
• 55:53
  dynamic where you need to harm others in order
• 55:56
  to continue to exist rather than this intuitive
• 56:00
  knowing that we are all being created by something
• 56:02
  beyond us. So that is, that's how I perceive
• 56:08
  the light and the dark. right now. Good versus
• 56:13
  evil. I would also talk about good versus bad.
• 56:17
  It used to be, for me as a younger child, it
• 56:23
  was like good and bad and good and evil. They're
• 56:26
  almost synonymous with each other, with the light
• 56:29
  and the dark. And they seemed a lot more objective.
• 56:33
  But one of the things that I'm realizing is that
• 56:35
  good and bad, they're really just like... i like
• 56:39
  and i don't like you know and what i mean by
• 56:43
  that is that they are they originate from a perspective
• 56:48
  there is a um and from my perspective this thing
• 56:53
  is good or this thing is bad um and from your
• 56:55
  perspective that may not be the truth you know
• 56:58
  but in terms of the light and the dark that is
• 57:01
  something that is a little bit more objective
• 57:02
  it's beyond necessarily our our individual selves
• 57:07
  um it's it's it's something that's kind of self
• 57:10
  -evident in existence yeah i mean i mean like
• 57:15
  me personally i would still to some degree leave
• 57:19
  like good and bad almost parallel with light
• 57:24
  or dark right and wrong just because words are
• 57:29
  important to some degree at least for my own
• 57:31
  my own understanding because like what's right
• 57:35
  and wrong it very much depends on i guess to
• 57:40
  some degree like where you want to go and what
• 57:41
  you want to do you know like if you want to build
• 57:45
  a personal brand on social media the right thing
• 57:47
  to do is to post on social media the wrong thing
• 57:50
  to do is to not post on social media it's just
• 57:53
  it's a it's an alignment thing you know um and
• 57:57
  that really comes down to the individual and
• 57:59
  desire but like i you know there's definitely
• 58:01
  a light and dark forces to this world and it
• 58:05
  seems like at least for me personally it only
• 58:10
  becomes more glaringly obvious that that is like
• 58:15
  an objective truth as time goes on and as my
• 58:19
  consciousness begins to expand further and further
• 58:22
  and i had a teacher and she said to me very early
• 58:29
  on on this path was like you know i i drank medicine
• 58:33
  and i was just like super psyched like all these
• 58:35
  like intuitions and insights and this that and
• 58:38
  at the end of the ceremony or like the next day
• 58:40
  i'm like calling all my friends i'm like oh yeah
• 58:43
  this this this this you know and she was like
• 58:46
  you need to be so careful who you share your
• 58:48
  medicine with you know because we build up this
• 58:51
  tank of like medicine of light of this like prayer
• 58:54
  this connection to creator and it's so easy to
• 58:59
  dissipate that energy by sharing it out to everyone
• 59:02
  and then it almost gets parasitic at some point
• 59:06
  where people want to feed off your light and
• 59:11
  you can feel that and like someone will come
• 59:13
  to you and they'll like ask for wisdom you know
• 59:16
  or like you'll share your wisdom with them and
• 59:20
  then they won't take any action on it they make
• 59:24
  zero change in their life but then they'll come
• 59:27
  back around a month later or whatever it is and
• 59:30
  they'll come and like want the next hit of like
• 59:32
  make me feel good tell me what to do but then
• 59:35
  they never act on it again right yeah and it
• 59:39
  just becomes completely parasitic toxic relationship
• 59:43
  yeah yeah for sure back to what we were talking
• 59:46
  about in the past we can we can also be mistreated
• 59:49
  and abused by other spirits and it's uh you know
• 59:53
  that's how it goes yeah yeah and then when we're
• 59:57
  also looking at like you know ayahuasca herself
• 1:00:00
  like she goes light she goes dark you know what
• 1:00:03
  i mean she's like the experience goes light and
• 1:00:07
  dark but the expanse of her power goes light
• 1:00:10
  and dark you know like people want to come and
• 1:00:14
  drink ayahuasca but you have to be so careful
• 1:00:17
  who you go and sit with Because, like, the world
• 1:00:20
  of magic is so much more real than you could
• 1:00:24
  ever imagine. And there's really people out there
• 1:00:27
  that are like Dumbledore. They're like Yoda.
• 1:00:31
  You know, they hold the medicine at such a high
• 1:00:34
  level in the light. And then there's the other
• 1:00:38
  side of, like, the Brujos and the Brujas and
• 1:00:41
  the Voldemorts and the Darth Vaders. And they're
• 1:00:45
  all out there, super high level in the dark.
• 1:00:49
  You know, and you have to be so careful navigating
• 1:00:53
  this as you come into the space because it isn't
• 1:00:58
  like the Darth Vader people are dressed like
• 1:01:02
  Darth Vader. They look exactly the same and they
• 1:01:06
  smile at you sometimes, you know. you can like,
• 1:01:13
  there's, there's problems. Like if you imagine
• 1:01:14
  you're in Star Wars or you're like, you're in
• 1:01:16
  Harry Potter and you're trying to go up against
• 1:01:18
  Darth Vader or Voldemort and you literally just
• 1:01:22
  bought your wand, you're done for, you know,
• 1:01:27
  like this is real. This is real, you know? And
• 1:01:31
  part of me is like, I reached like certain levels
• 1:01:34
  now, like in the medicine path. And I'm like,
• 1:01:37
  Oh, like this is getting intense. You know what
• 1:01:41
  I mean? Do I really want to keep going down this
• 1:01:45
  path? Do I really want to apprentice? Do I really
• 1:01:47
  want to become a Kundado? But the thing is, it's
• 1:01:50
  like, this is reality. So it's like, either you
• 1:01:57
  can like, you know, get strong and like sharpen
• 1:02:00
  up and learn how to protect yourself and the
• 1:02:02
  people around you and also heal the people around
• 1:02:04
  you. Or you're just susceptible to all of it.
• 1:02:07
  You know, understand and become a victim. exactly
• 1:02:11
  you know and there's like the fucking dark forces
• 1:02:13
  out there the governments the fucking secret
• 1:02:17
  agencies and all this shit and the secret societies
• 1:02:20
  that are like praying against humanity trying
• 1:02:22
  to like lower the population of the world that's
• 1:02:27
  real yeah you know yeah and like if you you have
• 1:02:33
  to see it if you don't see it you cannot future
• 1:02:36
  proof like your life or your bloodline and like
• 1:02:38
  keep the people that you love protected yeah
• 1:02:42
  yeah natural selection and it's really it's all
• 1:02:46
  permission based right because we all have options
• 1:02:49
  it's it's not that we we do not have this ability
• 1:02:53
  to choose the the the route that empowers us
• 1:02:57
  and embodies us or the route that makes us gives
• 1:03:03
  us a sense of security and safety, but will take
• 1:03:08
  our autonomy away. We have these choices, and
• 1:03:12
  they have very real consequences. It's not just
• 1:03:17
  the dieta where your choices matter. This is
• 1:03:21
  real life. Everything has an outcome, and the
• 1:03:26
  outcomes are determined from the source. of the
• 1:03:33
  choice the source of the creation itself is what
• 1:03:37
  will manifest the the reality the present reality
• 1:03:44
  so this is a this is i guess not so much of a
• 1:03:49
  warning but this is where you should be like
• 1:03:51
  making choices to manifest what you want to experience
• 1:03:58
  And something is just like an energetic principle
• 1:04:01
  to some degree that people can just like take
• 1:04:03
  and put into their lives immediately. And like,
• 1:04:05
  as a tool for discernment of understanding the
• 1:04:09
  reality around them is whenever we're working
• 1:04:13
  in the light, it always takes a lot of work to
• 1:04:18
  reach a certain level of understanding or insight
• 1:04:23
  or power. Right. And. in the dark it's you get
• 1:04:29
  all the power up front but then you have to do
• 1:04:32
  the bidding of whoever gave you the power right
• 1:04:37
  so like with the diets you do these like long
• 1:04:40
  diets for many many years no salt no sex prove
• 1:04:43
  that like you have the the discipline and the
• 1:04:46
  control you know and then you get the medicine
• 1:04:49
  at the end you know so like when we can look
• 1:04:54
  at You know, like the difference between like
• 1:04:56
  a kudendero and a brujo, like if you're going
• 1:04:59
  to go and drink ayahuasca, you need to go and
• 1:05:00
  be like, how many diets have you done? You know,
• 1:05:04
  like it's like eight years, 10 years of training
• 1:05:07
  before you're even at the like at the beginning.
• 1:05:12
  That's actually a very, very good point. If there's
• 1:05:16
  one piece of advice that you take from this as
• 1:05:19
  someone that's looking to. come into contact
• 1:05:22
  with the medicine and start to learn at the beginning
• 1:05:25
  of your journey with no discernment. This question
• 1:05:27
  is like, how many diets do you have? This is
• 1:05:31
  a very, very important question to ask someone.
• 1:05:34
  And you'll instantly get the feedback that we're
• 1:05:36
  like, huh, what's a diet? Do not sit. Run. Run.
• 1:05:43
  GTFO. Yeah. If you've, if you've, they say I've
• 1:05:47
  drunk ayahuasca a thousand times, but I've never
• 1:05:49
  done a diet. Run. It doesn't matter. It's so
• 1:05:54
  true, man. You know? And that's also, like, I
• 1:05:56
  mean, I'm obviously biased, right, to, like,
• 1:06:00
  the Shipibo lineages. But, like, they're the
• 1:06:03
  ones who, like, really understand the diet and
• 1:06:06
  really put the work in. Like, the Brazilians
• 1:06:08
  and the Colombians, like, they have their own
• 1:06:11
  medicine, you know? But, like, they don't really
• 1:06:14
  diet. They don't really have the connection with
• 1:06:17
  the plants. Yeah. yeah and like we've been in
• 1:06:24
  ceremonies before and like you know i'll talk
• 1:06:26
  to the kudendero after ceremony and like we're
• 1:06:28
  in a maloca that like a brazilian has used previously
• 1:06:31
  he's just like i spent the whole fucking night
• 1:06:34
  cleaning the space you know it's like shapivo
• 1:06:39
  is the way there is a serious sense of devotion
• 1:06:45
  necessary and dedication um to to work with the
• 1:06:51
  plants and to to diet and if if you aren't that
• 1:06:57
  for me it's it's a it's a proof of work right
• 1:06:59
  we're gonna touch a little bit on like the bitcoin
• 1:07:01
  you know terminology here but we'll save that
• 1:07:04
  for another conversation but evidence of work
• 1:07:07
  is is very very important for your discernment
• 1:07:11
  you know if this person's like yeah i can do
• 1:07:14
  this this that's not and they have literally
• 1:07:17
  nothing to show for it, how can you trust that?
• 1:07:20
  It's like it is so, so important to have some
• 1:07:23
  form of evidence that something is possible or
• 1:07:26
  something has been done in order for you to seriously
• 1:07:29
  let that into your head. Or you're just willing
• 1:07:31
  to let lies and illusions just fill your belief
• 1:07:35
  system and then you're like floating in cloud
• 1:07:38
  nine and nothing is real because there is nothing
• 1:07:41
  rooting you to reality. in terms of what you
• 1:07:45
  will take as a truth, you know? So yeah, it's
• 1:07:50
  a big piece of it. And even just to like expand
• 1:07:52
  for like real world examples to some degree,
• 1:07:55
  right? It's like you start a business, right?
• 1:08:01
  And it's like grassroots and you grow it from
• 1:08:04
  the ground up and you like work your heart out
• 1:08:07
  and you earn every single piece of it. You know
• 1:08:10
  what I mean? Like you get the payout at five
• 1:08:12
  years or 10 years. Whereas like the other side
• 1:08:17
  is like, you're a politician, you know, you just
• 1:08:22
  get put into this status, like into this power
• 1:08:26
  and you've done no work to get there other than
• 1:08:30
  like talk shit, you know? And like, now you're
• 1:08:34
  at the bidding of all the fucking companies who
• 1:08:37
  have made the money. you know same shit like
• 1:08:43
  you everyone has to earn every single piece of
• 1:08:46
  it you know otherwise it's a house of cards and
• 1:08:50
  they can't be trusted exactly well that's the
• 1:08:53
  thing when you when you let yourself end up doing
• 1:08:56
  someone else's bidding you become the full guy
• 1:08:59
  you become it's like um it's like a vpn you become
• 1:09:03
  their vpn to an extent but in the real world
• 1:09:08
  Not a very nice position to be in, especially
• 1:09:12
  when your literal safety and existence is dependent
• 1:09:17
  on it. And if you make choices that build your
• 1:09:20
  source of income and existence, your source of
• 1:09:25
  food on that kind of practice, you're doomed.
• 1:09:30
  You are doomed. You have built yourself into
• 1:09:33
  a hole where you have no say in anything. You're
• 1:09:39
  someone else's robotic hands. And so you've voided
• 1:09:44
  your ability to even get yourself out of the
• 1:09:46
  hole because it's their choice whether you get
• 1:09:48
  out of the hole or not. And they would never
• 1:09:50
  want you out of that place. Another great example,
• 1:09:55
  I think, is people who are professors at universities
• 1:10:02
  in business. And they've never actually... been
• 1:10:07
  in the free market they've never actually grown
• 1:10:09
  a company they're purely like theoretical people
• 1:10:14
  in like a position of power brujo you know what
• 1:10:20
  i mean like if you haven't earned it and you
• 1:10:23
  don't have the direct experience and it's the
• 1:10:26
  same way like if you're just playing these like
• 1:10:28
  weird rational games in isolated boxes like that's
• 1:10:31
  like black magic you know it's true it's absolutely
• 1:10:35
  true Yeah. Okay, so let's change gears into some
• 1:10:40
  black magic, but in a bit of a different sense.
• 1:10:45
  What are some of the, like, deepest programs
• 1:10:51
  or conditioning you've had to unlearn from growing
• 1:10:57
  up in the West, growing up in Australia, when
• 1:11:00
  it comes to, like, understanding your value and
• 1:11:03
  your reality? Hmm. Whoa, that's a big question.
• 1:11:10
  I've actually kind of like already talked on
• 1:11:13
  a few in this conversation. The real big ones,
• 1:11:17
  especially that I've like, because many of them
• 1:11:20
  are still in process at the moment of being not
• 1:11:23
  only unearthed, but processed and cleaned and
• 1:11:28
  let go of. But some of the big ones that I've
• 1:11:32
  noticed that have come a long way over this last
• 1:11:35
  year for me um is the the approaches to cities
• 1:11:43
  and lifestyle um in general and uh specifically
• 1:11:48
  like with the nature conversation that we had
• 1:11:50
  earlier on in this like idea of like creating
• 1:11:54
  bubbles of safety you know concrete structures
• 1:11:59
  that protect us from nature literally the thing
• 1:12:04
  that is our origin and source you know uh going
• 1:12:10
  down to the jungle and uh seeing the way that
• 1:12:13
  they live there literally on just bare land it's
• 1:12:19
  it's as if they have like gone into a like a
• 1:12:22
  jungle maybe cut down a few trees and used the
• 1:12:26
  what the the the wood slats to build like shacks
• 1:12:29
  and that's all they've changed on the natural
• 1:12:33
  land just to protect them from rain potentially
• 1:12:36
  you know but like there are no glass windows
• 1:12:40
  or you know they might have netting for the bugs
• 1:12:43
  you know they have essentially the bare minimum
• 1:12:46
  edits to to the the raw virgin reality of this
• 1:12:52
  planet and they are thriving you know they are
• 1:12:56
  they and they they have not a care in the world
• 1:12:58
  they don't have concrete they don't have windows
• 1:13:01
  that need to be cleaned they don't have concrete
• 1:13:04
  that cracks and needs to be you know re -re -leveled
• 1:13:07
  every few years you know they don't have like
• 1:13:09
  cables and and piping and all these things that
• 1:13:13
  need to be dug up and they don't have telephone
• 1:13:15
  wires fucking hitting trees it is it's like they
• 1:13:20
  are just living and and it's They're healthy.
• 1:13:24
  And it's like, they don't even care. It doesn't
• 1:13:28
  even occur to them. These dynamics that might
• 1:13:31
  consume someone, just an average Joe from the
• 1:13:36
  West, their experience, if they went into that
• 1:13:38
  situation, they would be like, what the fuck?
• 1:13:41
  Where are the telephone cables? Where is my hot
• 1:13:44
  shower? Where are the windows? You wouldn't be
• 1:13:47
  able to think about anything else except for
• 1:13:49
  the absence of all these safety nets that we
• 1:13:53
  have arbitrarily introduced into the baseline
• 1:13:58
  experience across the board everywhere in the
• 1:14:02
  West and many places in the world. Now, yes,
• 1:14:05
  these are luxuries, but... a big reframing that
• 1:14:09
  like, um, that occurred for me, it was like,
• 1:14:12
  those things were seen as baseline default necessities.
• 1:14:17
  And very, very quickly, I started to realize
• 1:14:19
  that they are absolute luxuries. And not only
• 1:14:22
  that, as. with any luxury, have a significant
• 1:14:27
  cost to them as well that are completely we're
• 1:14:30
  unconscious to. We are not aware of the cost
• 1:14:33
  of these things because they are defaults for
• 1:14:35
  us. And so the costs that they are incurring
• 1:14:40
  on our experience and our energy is also a default.
• 1:14:44
  But that's not the truth. That's not the reality.
• 1:14:47
  That is not the nature of experience on this
• 1:14:50
  planet. It has just been... bit by bit slowly
• 1:14:53
  crept into the, and introduced into. And I, I
• 1:14:56
  am saying that with a level of intention. That's
• 1:14:59
  beside the point, whether there is an intentional
• 1:15:01
  introduction or not, it is the reality that that
• 1:15:05
  thing has bit by bit been shifting the Overton
• 1:15:07
  window of our awareness and what we accept as
• 1:15:10
  real and normal over the last, how many decades,
• 1:15:13
  you know, I'm not going to put it. I don't know
• 1:15:15
  the reality of when this started, but what it
• 1:15:18
  means is that we have. Millions and millions
• 1:15:21
  and millions of people living unaware of how
• 1:15:27
  different their actual baseline is from the origins
• 1:15:33
  that we came from and the origins of what's actually
• 1:15:35
  necessary. And I would say healthy and fosters
• 1:15:41
  health and wellness. So that's a big one for
• 1:15:46
  me. It's a real big one. yeah i mean it's when
• 1:15:53
  you like it's it's such a radical difference
• 1:15:56
  mess you know mess and like i'm not ready to
• 1:16:01
  go all the way but as i learn more and i evolve
• 1:16:05
  more i'm definitely stepping more and more in
• 1:16:09
  that direction you know as time goes on and i
• 1:16:13
  think there's like a really interesting correlation
• 1:16:15
  that happens in the pursuit of comfort that it
• 1:16:21
  actually creates discomfort you know like you're
• 1:16:26
  sleeping on the floor right and then you get
• 1:16:29
  a mattress and it's like soft and you're like
• 1:16:32
  oh this is nice and then you have to get like
• 1:16:34
  a softer mattress You know, because now it's
• 1:16:38
  like you've acclimatized to the level of comfort.
• 1:16:42
  So you no longer feel comfortable. Absolutely.
• 1:16:45
  And it's like, this thing just spirals out of
• 1:16:47
  fucking control to the point where to feel comfortable,
• 1:16:50
  people have to come home and drink six beers
• 1:16:53
  after work. And that's baseline. That's their
• 1:16:56
  baseline. Baseline. Yeah. Baseline. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:16:59
  You know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. It's so insidious,
• 1:17:03
  dude. The slippery slope. so insidious and that's
• 1:17:08
  really like that's really like what governments
• 1:17:11
  are just really doing they're just pretending
• 1:17:13
  to hold the safety bubble for everyone when in
• 1:17:16
  reality it's actually just making everyone sick
• 1:17:18
  and everyone uncomfortable i mean like whether
• 1:17:23
  you believe that comfort breeds weakness or not
• 1:17:26
  it definitely it certainly does not foster strength
• 1:17:30
  that's one of the things that you know We just
• 1:17:35
  need to be aware of the necessary comforts, you
• 1:17:40
  know, the necessity of the comforts. It's the
• 1:17:44
  awareness, ultimately. And again, it comes back
• 1:17:46
  to assessing the relationship and seeing, disconnecting
• 1:17:51
  the attachment, like I was kind of speaking about
• 1:17:54
  before. When you identify with a person that
• 1:17:58
  sleeps in a comfortable bed, that is you, you
• 1:18:01
  know, but if you can create a little bit of a
• 1:18:03
  distance between the actual you and that identity,
• 1:18:07
  then you realize that there is a relationship
• 1:18:10
  between these two versions. And that's when you
• 1:18:13
  assess. How necessary is this relationship? How
• 1:18:16
  much do I actually want this relationship? I'm
• 1:18:18
  not saying don't sleep on comfortable beds. I'm
• 1:18:20
  just saying, try your best to be aware of that
• 1:18:23
  relationship that you have with that identity.
• 1:18:26
  Cause it can just be unconscious, you know? Yeah.
• 1:18:29
  And that's something that just like indigenous
• 1:18:31
  wisdom that I've like encountered in general
• 1:18:34
  kind of seems to push to, you know, where we
• 1:18:39
  look at like vision questing or sun dancing.
• 1:18:42
  in like the north american lakota traditions
• 1:18:44
  and they do four days no food no water you know
• 1:18:51
  and then i'm like okay so like you know i practice
• 1:18:56
  my fasting and my dry fasting and all of these
• 1:18:58
  things throughout my life and like yes there's
• 1:19:00
  like health benefits to it but it's also like
• 1:19:02
  once you've gone two days without water or five
• 1:19:07
  days without food and you're like i'm kind of
• 1:19:10
  hungry it doesn't stress you out. Whereas people
• 1:19:14
  are like, I can't miss a meal. You know what
• 1:19:17
  I mean? Like it changes the peace, the level
• 1:19:21
  of peace in your mind. And even like when it
• 1:19:24
  comes to traveling, there's always cool things
• 1:19:26
  to see. But something that I've found that's
• 1:19:30
  led to growth, if you're traveling for growth,
• 1:19:32
  it's like you're seeking discomfort to some degree.
• 1:19:36
  When I lived down in the jungle with the jaguars,
• 1:19:39
  right? Epic experience. I'm like walking Jaguars
• 1:19:43
  on leashes. But when I tell that story to my
• 1:19:46
  sister, she doesn't even think the Jaguar walking
• 1:19:51
  was the cool bit. The cool bit was that I lived
• 1:19:54
  in the jungle for three months with no running
• 1:19:56
  water and no electricity sleeping on a straw
• 1:19:58
  bed, you know? And like now I feel like I can
• 1:20:04
  just be thrown in so many situations and just
• 1:20:08
  like be peaceful. You know what I mean? Because
• 1:20:12
  of that experience, I know what I'm capable of.
• 1:20:15
  I know what I've done. I know it's all temporary
• 1:20:17
  as well. Yeah, man. Oh, it's so true, man. Because
• 1:20:22
  that's what I was speaking about. It builds resilience.
• 1:20:26
  It builds strength. It also just gives you direct
• 1:20:31
  experience, is king, direct experience and evidence
• 1:20:34
  of your ability to do that. Until you do it,
• 1:20:40
  it's not possible. It doesn't even occur to you
• 1:20:43
  that you could do it. Maybe it does. It's very
• 1:20:45
  unlikely that you're thinking about that. But
• 1:20:49
  as soon as you do it, you're like, fuck, I actually
• 1:20:51
  went three days without food. It no longer seems
• 1:20:54
  like a gargantuan task. It is now just like,
• 1:20:58
  oh, been there, done that. And that doesn't necessarily
• 1:21:00
  mean it makes it any easier to do that task.
• 1:21:04
  It just means that it... is no longer, it doesn't
• 1:21:07
  seem like this illusory, imaginary, like mammoth
• 1:21:13
  task that is beyond your reach because it's being
• 1:21:17
  directly demonstrated to you that it is not,
• 1:21:20
  you know? And that's what, you know, is super
• 1:21:23
  important to just prove these things to you sometimes,
• 1:21:25
  to yourself. Just like, what's the word that
• 1:21:29
  I use? give it like the benefit of the doubt,
• 1:21:31
  you know, like, Oh, what, what if it, if you're
• 1:21:34
  like a default to seeing something new, for example,
• 1:21:37
  like learning an instrument is like, Oh, I could
• 1:21:38
  never do that. You know, if you like you, you
• 1:21:42
  default to denying the, the, the potential that
• 1:21:45
  something is, is possible. Just like, what if
• 1:21:50
  you didn't do that straight away? What if you
• 1:21:52
  like saw this thing and you're like, Oh, maybe
• 1:21:54
  it's possible. And that's like, and then you
• 1:21:57
  go a step further and it's like, what if your
• 1:21:59
  default was actually assuming that you could
• 1:22:01
  do it? These are like, this is a big shift that
• 1:22:05
  I'm kind of working on at the moment is like
• 1:22:07
  looking at things and just being like, no, I
• 1:22:09
  couldn't possibly do that. And you like catch
• 1:22:11
  yourself. So why am I even thinking that I couldn't
• 1:22:13
  do that? What evidence do I have that I can't
• 1:22:18
  do the thing? I have no evidence either way.
• 1:22:20
  So why am I going to default to the negative?
• 1:22:23
  Why don't I just default to the positive? Why
• 1:22:25
  don't I default to it's actually well within
• 1:22:27
  my grasp, you know? Yeah. And I mean, like, that's
• 1:22:30
  something that I know I definitely think about
• 1:22:34
  where I'm kind of feeling like to some degree,
• 1:22:39
  I'm at the point, not all the time, but around
• 1:22:42
  a lot of things where if someone can do it, I
• 1:22:48
  can do it. totally totally and like that's where
• 1:22:52
  it's really interesting where the people who
• 1:22:56
  who think they can do something that's never
• 1:22:59
  been done before that's the real interesting
• 1:23:02
  stuff you know what i mean but like my default
• 1:23:06
  is like if someone can do it i can do it period
• 1:23:08
  someone can play this song on guitar i can learn
• 1:23:11
  it no matter how difficult it is for sure you
• 1:23:13
  know for sure yeah stop stop looking for reasons
• 1:23:16
  why you can't do something and start looking
• 1:23:18
  for reasons for why you can't do that thing you
• 1:23:20
  know and also reasons like why you should yes
• 1:23:25
  you know yeah like how many of us just like live
• 1:23:30
  in these little comfortable again boxes you know
• 1:23:33
  inside of our identities it's like oh everything's
• 1:23:36
  like perfectly organized and you just micromanage
• 1:23:39
  your entire little world and this is something
• 1:23:42
  like I've said a lot throughout my life where
• 1:23:45
  I've made multiple leaps into the complete unknown,
• 1:23:50
  you know? There's like three major ones in my
• 1:23:55
  life where I've done that. And like the last
• 1:23:58
  one was like moving to Costa Rica. Like I moved
• 1:24:00
  down here with $1 ,000 and a laptop and I was
• 1:24:02
  like, I'm going to make it work, you know? And
• 1:24:05
  before I left, I had a million reasons not to
• 1:24:09
  come, you know, in my mind. But, like, spirit
• 1:24:13
  said go. And so I went. And 999 ,999 of them
• 1:24:21
  came true. Right? Like, we're not irrational
• 1:24:26
  people. Like, they came true. You know? But I
• 1:24:31
  didn't see the million beautiful things that
• 1:24:32
  would come of it. You know? And you never do
• 1:24:36
  until you're there. Because there's too many
• 1:24:38
  of them that are possible. And also, we don't
• 1:24:41
  like to hope. sometimes it's very very easy to
• 1:24:44
  be like oh i'm so scared of hoping for something
• 1:24:46
  good in case it doesn't happen you know so it's
• 1:24:49
  easier to default for just like assuming that
• 1:24:51
  the negative is going to happen and then just
• 1:24:53
  never kind of venture into that area at all you
• 1:24:56
  know it's uh yeah the it's just fear at the end
• 1:25:01
  of the day yeah for sure and like what do you
• 1:25:04
  what do you allow to be the thing that drives
• 1:25:07
  you in life you know Is it like the pursuit of
• 1:25:10
  freedom? Is it the pursuit of love? Is it spirit
• 1:25:13
  or is it fear? Consistency and safety and predictability.
• 1:25:20
  Yeah. And the thing is, it's like, there's always
• 1:25:23
  a really simple solution, you know? And like,
• 1:25:26
  it's not simple to actually act on, but you have
• 1:25:30
  to just dive into the complete unknown, you know?
• 1:25:34
  Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, it's just fun, you
• 1:25:38
  know? within reason you know there's there's
• 1:25:41
  like a level of just like absolute recklessness
• 1:25:43
  but even then that serves you know that serves
• 1:25:46
  many spirits who who want that kind of lifetime
• 1:25:49
  but yeah this is not it's not telling everyone
• 1:25:52
  to just go and fucking jump off a bridge or something
• 1:25:54
  like i see what's gonna happen you know but like
• 1:25:56
  yeah but like send it send it exactly exactly
• 1:26:00
  send it like step by step but like send it you
• 1:26:03
  know what i mean a hundred percent a hundred
• 1:26:05
  percent yeah for sure Like, you got to be brave
• 1:26:12
  in this world. Absolutely. You got to be brave.
• 1:26:15
  And every time I've made that leap into the unknown,
• 1:26:18
  it's always benefited my evolution of consciousness
• 1:26:22
  at the very least. You know? Oh, absolutely.
• 1:26:26
  You learn the most from that which you don't
• 1:26:30
  know. And if you're scared of that, you'll just
• 1:26:33
  learn the least. Yeah. Okay. I think I got one
• 1:26:41
  last question and it's kind of like a sidetrack
• 1:26:45
  fun question. As a musician, how has your relationship
• 1:26:53
  changed with music since being introduced to
• 1:26:57
  ayahuasca and like the indigenous ways that they
• 1:27:00
  use music? Yeah. Well, when you. When you go
• 1:27:09
  to a school and you sit in music class and they
• 1:27:11
  teach you, music is written in 4 -4 time and
• 1:27:16
  you've got four beats in a bar and you've got
• 1:27:19
  these notes in the scale and C major and, you
• 1:27:24
  know, band and in a band you've got flutes and
• 1:27:27
  you've got trumpets and you've got clarinets.
• 1:27:30
  It's like a very, very rigid and not... It's
• 1:27:35
  not that it doesn't have a place, but it is a
• 1:27:38
  very well -defined, well -structured system.
• 1:27:44
  And it works. And it does its thing. And there's
• 1:27:46
  beauty that is found there. But it does not teach
• 1:27:50
  you about the infinite possibility of music and
• 1:27:57
  frequency and waves. These are, when you have
• 1:28:07
  two poles, you have a spectrum. And when you
• 1:28:14
  have a spectrum, you have a point on the spectrum.
• 1:28:18
  And as soon as you introduce time, you have movement
• 1:28:21
  along this spectrum. And as soon as you have
• 1:28:24
  movement along this spectrum, you have a wave.
• 1:28:26
  This wave is moving up and down. And as soon
• 1:28:29
  as you can perceive that movement, That is music
• 1:28:32
  to me. That is how I, and it's music and frequency
• 1:28:36
  and movement. These words to me are absolutely
• 1:28:42
  synonymous. They essentially mean the same thing.
• 1:28:46
  You just use them in different contexts based
• 1:28:49
  on how specific you're trying to be or the connotations
• 1:28:52
  you're trying to add to a sentence. But as far
• 1:28:54
  as I'm concerned, music is movement. Once you
• 1:28:58
  see the way that an Icaro is constructed, and
• 1:29:04
  you realize that is equally music as a symphony
• 1:29:10
  orchestra, you know, it's like, how can these
• 1:29:13
  two things be the same thing? They are completely
• 1:29:17
  opposite worlds. They are fully... opposites
• 1:29:22
  from each other and yet their essence they are
• 1:29:25
  working within the exact same medium of of sound
• 1:29:28
  and vibrations and they have equally different
• 1:29:34
  uh not only experiences but the outcomes and
• 1:29:38
  the transformations and the information that
• 1:29:40
  is capable of being transferred by each of these
• 1:29:44
  approaches to the same medium is is yeah it's
• 1:29:48
  incredible so Sitting with an Icaro and realizing
• 1:29:53
  that it is just another form of language. It's
• 1:30:01
  a communication. And the medium of communication
• 1:30:05
  isn't necessarily words, although words are part
• 1:30:08
  of it. It's not specifically the meaning, the
• 1:30:13
  definition of these words per se that I am receiving.
• 1:30:17
  And that is doing something to me. It is the
• 1:30:20
  experience of the utterance of those words as
• 1:30:24
  a whole, the sound, the tonality, the everything.
• 1:30:27
  And it's the same thing with an instrument. It
• 1:30:29
  is not just the actual note that is being played
• 1:30:33
  and the instrument playing it. It is like the...
• 1:30:38
  array of dynamics, the speed, the tempo, the
• 1:30:43
  volume of the sound, the timbre, it's just the
• 1:30:48
  energy that goes behind the words, that the words
• 1:30:51
  carry, and it is received, and it's like there
• 1:30:57
  is a communication at essentially the deepest
• 1:31:00
  level, you know? That's, yeah. It's just, it
• 1:31:06
  really has broadened my horizons on the reality
• 1:31:10
  of the communication that music is capable of.
• 1:31:15
  And it's really, yeah, it's super inspiring.
• 1:31:19
  Super, super inspiring for me. It's also shown
• 1:31:22
  me how powerful our voices are, what these things
• 1:31:28
  are capable of doing. you know, what we are capable
• 1:31:32
  of externalizing into this world, should we so
• 1:31:36
  desire to, it is unbelievable. It is unbelievable
• 1:31:42
  what souls are capable of bringing and materializing
• 1:31:46
  into this world, you know, and it's just a gift.
• 1:31:49
  It's a, yeah, it's a massive gift. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:31:58
  Well, good chat. absolutely absolutely if uh
• 1:32:03
  people want to track you down and find you where
• 1:32:08
  where are they finding you uh easiest way would
• 1:32:12
  be um instagram my twitter handle i might my
• 1:32:16
  instagram handle is magic marcos with a k both
• 1:32:21
  of them um and i know i think we'll uh that's
• 1:32:27
  the best place to to get where i'm i'm uploading
• 1:32:29
  some stuff there at the moment i might branch
• 1:32:31
  out into other domains in the future but that's
• 1:32:35
  that's the that's where i'm located at the moment
• 1:32:37
  online yeah yeah unreal and i'll put all the
• 1:32:41
  links to everything down below as well so people
• 1:32:43
  can find you yeah and uh yeah i imagine like
• 1:32:46
  you know me and me and marcos will have quite
• 1:32:48
  a few more conversations as the podcast progresses
• 1:32:51
  he's like kind of my my main dude to spit ideas
• 1:32:56
  with uh in the day -to -day and i feel like this
• 1:33:00
  is like a decent kind of deep dive into some
• 1:33:04
  like medicine stuff and some some ayahuasca and
• 1:33:07
  dieta stuff and a little bit of magic but there's
• 1:33:10
  also a lot of depth that we can go into about
• 1:33:13
  you know things like bitcoin and things like
• 1:33:16
  uh living internationally and like game theory
• 1:33:20
  and and and all of this so yeah fictional pirates
• 1:33:25
  being pirates and not so fictional fictional
• 1:33:31
  and non -fictional talking about uh the incredible
• 1:33:37
  impact of one piece on this generation that's
• 1:33:43
  definitely got to be in there too for sure so
• 1:33:46
  yeah thanks for uh thanks for coming on thanks
• 1:33:49
  for supporting the podcast thanks for being my
• 1:33:51
  best mate yeah and uh yeah till the next one
• 1:33:55
  thank you for having me man that was that was
• 1:33:58
  awesome all my relations oh aho all my relations